Quote from ~Russ on January 7th, 2017, 09:08 AM

Some fine work brad.

Thank you for the deep details.

I'm really set up already to start testing stuff.

So if there is anything you want me to test on my flat core Vic let me know

I'll be going over all my notes and trying some stuff today. Will see where we get.

~Russ

Thanks Russ, one thing,

Can you measure the capacitance of your coils and post them? Just curious to see if you'll get the same values.

I still think my coils should work, but tuning into resonance is more complex than just turning a knob.

I scanned 5-10kHz in 10Hz increments and saw no sign of resonance anywhere, yesterday?

If you think of the cell as a efficient capacitor then you can calculate the Q and bandwidth of the circuit, then finding resonance should be easy, if I remember right my VIC had a calculated bandwidth of 74Hz.

I think the water has to change in some way before resonance will show up, and that's the hard part?
So, in essence you could have the circuit at resonance and nothing will happen until the water does whatever it does before resonance appears.
I think I've probably hit and passed resonance multiple times but didn't notice because I didn't keep it on the frequency long enough?

There's got to be something more because finding resonance in a typical RLC circuit is easy.

Brad. All my old coils including the ones your using are posted.

Not sure how everyone keep missing that. Lol. But! It would be really good to add your coils in that spred sheet. And re post it.

There is a tab just for that.



http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/RWG%20Readings%20and%20Extras%20-%20OSE%20Forms%20-%20Gries%20Petty%20Research%20Updated%2010-25-14.xls

All my old coils have C values. The ones I just did I did not mesure. Becuse I don't trust the mesurments. So take all the C values with a grain of salt.

Little at a time.

Now I can take turns off better.

Need better shims tho. Lol will make some soon. Just used what in had for today.

Awesome setup Russ, I like it!

Thanks brad. Did you get that spred sheet open?

If so can you add your values in there and upload?

Thanks. ~Russ

Got it, Thanks Russ.

I can add my values but I'm still making adjustments. My secondary and choke coils are about 3 ohms below but my inductances are the same as Stan's.

Quote from HMS-776 on January 7th, 2017, 06:25 PM

Got it, Thanks Russ.

I can add my values but I'm still making adjustments. My secondary and choke coils are about 3 ohms below but my inductances are the same as Stan's.

Ok. Well one things :-) for sure. Even if you get them matched exactly in all areas. I bet there's still more to know.

Aka their is more about the tuning than matching stans coils. Due to the things that need to be understood. All the small things I think Ronnie understands.  So the hope is he / we can teach us.

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ on January 7th, 2017, 07:09 PM

Ok. Well one things :-) for sure. Even if you get them matched exactly in all areas. I bet there's still more to know.

Aka their is more about the tuning than matching stans coils. Due to the things that need to be understood.

I have a hunch the coils and cell are critically important, but the magic could be in the electronics.

If a few of us can get things working on our bench, then we'll be in a position to find out.

I've been replaying in my head a lot of what Ronnie has said already and I'm starting to feel the answers are soon to be discovered.

If Stan's tech was easy more people would have had it working by now.

I spent several hours testing and troubleshooting the VIC once again tonight.
I figured out that you can pickup the signal with your scope probe about 1/2 inch to 1 inch from the chokes..

Tonight I adjusted my choke values once again. I also tried swapping the L2 chokes direction.
I saw frequency doubling tonight but no resonance...
I also saw the choke coil resonance around 20-24kHz.

I'm starting to wonder, if I hit resonance while scanning would my power supply switch current fast enough to see resonance?
Just trying to think of everything that could be going wrong.

It's possible the only thing you are doing wrong is second guessing yourself.  My hunch is there is a missing piece to all this and when we find it...

I see what your saying.

The good thing is I've corrected several problems over the last few days.

I've been scanning frequencies again after adjusting my chokes several times.

I just figured out my function generator has amazing resolution on it's sweep function....It can sweep 1Hz in a maximum time of just over 8 minutes at a resolution of 1uHz. If this can't find resonance, nothing will!!!

If you lower the voltage, that will flatten the Q and any resonance that might be there will be lower amplitude but over a much wider bandwidth.  If I'm understanding Ronnie correctly, that's the major reason why you start out at lower voltage--it's not tunable otherwise.

I think your right.

In all my testing the primary coil only sees 2.5V.

I've had a lot of free time this weekend so I'm trying to get as much testing in as I can.

Watching the FFT as I scan frequencies...

I wonder if electrostatic fields effect the cell? I have everyting on a plastic table in a carpeted room:-/
I just bought an ESD mat and grounding kit. Might help, if not I needed it anyways!

Oh man. Anything that can act as a capacitor will really mess you up.

This system is so hary that even your hand getting close to the cell will mess it up.

Just think aboit all the things that are close and you move around.

I have seen systems that you can tune with your body capatance. This is no diffrent!!!

~Russ

The circuit is not an antenna. The circuit should be stable and isolated from outside influence.

Russ, That is one reason why I had my coils in an AL enclosure.

If you look at Stan's Cell you will see he has a thin aluminum strip covering all the connections, that's to shield the connections and cells from outside influences. I am starting to think any nearby power source, radio, computer, light etc will influence it and possibly prevent resonance.

I have a 6 cell unit and the connections are out in the open....I've been trying to figure out a way to make a cover/shield for them.

I've had my function generator going for a few hours now on the sweep function. It's been sweeping 1Hz every 10 seconds at a resolution of .000001Hz...So far I've gone from 8.000kHz to 9.1kHz...Nothin yet.

Hi....HMS-776
Didn't  GPS say he was using 10-20 HZ?

I scanned for resonance 5 hours today. I went through 8 - 9.8kHz sweep on my function generator over that time.

Did I find resonance?  Nope!

While scanning I decided to collect some snow (Ronnie's suggestion) and let it melt to use that water in my cell.

The interesting thing is the snow water increased the capacitance by a big difference.
Typically with distilled water the cell reads in the 165-185pF range.

With the water from the melted snow it's showing 520pF. It might be that the water is more conductive so it's throwing the meter off. That's my guess.

I also sent a quote request to have a shield made for my cell. I'm looking at having it 3D printed.

Not sure what to try next as far as resonance goes?

I feel that only Ronnie can you help HMS

Quote from HMS-776 on January 8th, 2017, 11:15 PM

I also sent a quote request to have a shield made for my cell. I'm looking at having it 3D printed.

Not sure what to try next as far as resonance goes?

what material were you thinking about 3d printing in?


yeah, you know there is got to be things we are not aware of.

I mean i know there is,

i have worked on Manny industrial systems over the times and the ones that you have to " tune" ( Ex. weight systems ) you have to go step by step and go through the owners manual a few times before you can get it right. and only after that can you do it on your own with out the book. with some practice...

its quite unfortunate but this is the way this system is. currently as far as I'm concerned Ronnie is our only book. we need him to keep pushing us in the right direction.

i spend some time last weekend tuning some stuff and i remember so much i did in the past. things felt so close, looked so good on the scope. but... just not there.

with that said. lets keep chugging along and Ronnie i encourage you to keep posting when you can. i do feel we all gained alot more understanding of what the system is doing over the last 4 months., However we need to do the same thing about Tuning.

so Ronnie, can you post more about tuning. i know you understand it in your head, each step you need to go through to get to the next step.

theirs a big change that starting out with looking for resonance is the wrong way to do it.

so if there's a chance to getting this working. I feel its going to be through Ronnie teaching us the tuning steps.

any thing you can guide us with Ronnie that would be good. we are not looking for the answer, we are looking to be taught the steps to our own rediscovery.

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ on January 9th, 2017, 10:36 AM

i spend some time last weekend tuning some stuff and i remember so much i did in the past. things felt so close, looked so good on the scope. but... just not there.

The "so close": What to look for ... Highest voltage output at a resonant point. Low current is stable while high voltage is unstable, and voltage-to-current phase offset by 90 degrees. PLL locked on a phase angle.

Russ, I was just going to have it printed in abs.

Any chance you could print me two half cylinders, which together will have an i.d. of 5.01", an o.d. of 5.25", and a length of 3"?

I'll be happy to pay for it and shipping. Let me know if your interested



Haxar, that's what we would all like to know.  What signs show up to let you know your close to resonance. I can tell you is not like any other resonant circuit. I can watch the FFT, the primary coil current, secondary circuit current and see the same peaks over and over at various frequencies.

It's difficult because at many frequencies the same waveforms at similar amplitudes are produced.

Resonant points are peaks in amplitude. There could be many resonant points to lock onto. I think there is an assumption floating around that there is just _one_ resonant point, when there can be many, with the same amplitudes. Stan did not mention "the only frequency", other than the 50kHz mentioned in a tape of his.

I have yet to wind my 1000VA toroid to find out, which would be a better idea. Even recommended by Stan in another patent.

Matt has my other flat core VIC gizmo in the mail. I don't think it works well enough, including doubt how it was designed by Stan from the beginning. Ronnie had better results with it than mine, with the spark plug test.

How about we find all of the points, and hit them all at once?

Quote from HMS-776 on January 9th, 2017, 12:59 PM

Russ, I was just going to have it printed in abs.

Any chance you could print me two half cylinders, which together will have an i.d. of 5.01", an o.d. of 5.25", and a length of 3"?

I'll be happy to pay for it and shipping. Let me know if your interested

can you please

please draw up a simple penile sketch. 

I'm not sure how much this will really help tho. ????

~Russ