Russ, do you have a fairly large inductor of known value in Henrys?

I would think you could connect such an inductor to your cell and do a ping test on the resonant circuit.  The frequency you get can be used to calculate the missing capacitance value and should be pretty darn accurate.  I'm not sure what voltage you would need to ping this with--keep going up until you see a definite ring I guess.

I just don't see how charging an air capacitor with a bench power supply to get a time constant can be accurate.  I can't imagine a LCR meter doing it any better either.

Matt i think thats a bad idea. i would use the time consent measurement and a scope.

like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VylC8JFoiBo

theses measurements seem to be almost par on with that cheep LRC meter ( with no case)  so its got to be doing something similar i think.
~Russ

Russ,

Yeah I'm sure we're all using the same LC meter. At work we have a $3k LC analyzer. I'm very tempted to bring my cell in one day to see what it will show.

yeah your not going to hurt the meter, do it! oh also i have been insing this LC network analyzer from NI. its a kit from mouser, web mug was using it way back when, it dose a nice job.

 i haven't used it on the cell.
ill get the number when i go home, i cant remember the part number.

~Russ

Well, I made the adjustments to my VIC tonight. Inductances are a nearly perfect match!

The problem I might come across next are the resistances. Mine are all a little low. Primary coil is 9.9 ohms. I wound extra wire on all bobbins then removed it,  but my meter was not reading correctly.

I also played around with different frequencies looking for resonance. I think a good way might be to use a current sense transformer/ current probe. I made mine,  it works great and it isolates the oscilloscope from the high voltage. At resonance we should see peak current.

I found a few peaks. I'll post shots of them tomorrow or Thursday. Also, now that I changed the secondary coil inductance the FFT is working.

Ronnie, are you using the same MUR1550 diode in the VIC that Stan used?
Right now I'm using a MUR1100E.

Yes, I found 2 of them several years back on ebay and snatched them up.

Crap!
There was one on eBay and someone just bought it.

I found an alternate to the MUR1550, it's the NTE6248. I might buy a few of them if I can't find the others.

I have been using MUR1560. Its the 600v equivalent. You can find these new.

~Russ

So, looking at the NTE6248 datasheet I noticed it has a rather high capacitance when reverse biased(145pF).

I looked at several MUR1550 datasheets but none of them list the capacitance. This might be an important thing to consider. I'm going to search until I find a MUR1550 and just go with it. Like I mentioned before, the more I work on the wfc the more I think that everything Stan did had a reason.

"Like I mentioned before, the more I work on the wfc the more I think that everything Stan did had a reasion. "

I agree. If possible. Do exact replica.

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ on January 4th, 2017, 07:28 PM

I agree. If possible. Do exact replica.

Right up to the point where you know exactly what you are doing and why.  Then you can freewheel in any direction you want.

Quote from Matt Watts on January 4th, 2017, 07:32 PM

Right up to the point where you know exactly what you are doing and why.  Then you can freewheel in any direction you want.

Precisely. 1.21 gigawatts.

Hmm...
GPS said he found 2 MUR1550 diodes years ago..
But we know he has made many VIC's?

This suggest that he is no longer using the MUR1550....
I am using a 1N1198 ....Big and red.
This must have a large PF number but the PDF does note state the PF?

So most any large Diode will work.

I've used both types, must be fast switching and voltage rating 500 volts and above they all will work.

Cool, good to know.

Thanks for clearing that up Ronnie!

Good Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r18Gi8lSkfM

Yes Ronnie, agreed, a good video.

So we take a square wave that has an infinite number of odd harmonics (one of which is very useful for the deconstruction of the water molecule) and apply them to WFC.  If the impedance has been set correctly, all but that one harmonic is absorbed in the impedance match.  The one of particular interest continues to bounce/reflect ad infinitum because the water and circuit will not absorb it.  This particular harmonic continues to grow and accumulate upon the back of previous waves injected.

So what frequency, what harmonic is this wave?  Could be 22Ghz for all we know.  It's well outside of our measuring instruments, but it's crucial for splitting the water molecule.  We know it's there because it was sourced from a square wave and we know it must be an odd harmonic.  Beyond that, all we need to do is keep it alive and allow this frequency to add upon itself cycle after cycle.  At some point the amplitude will become so strong in comparison to its neighboring harmonics, it dominates the process, though we might not even be able to measure it.  We will know it is there when we see the gas production in the cell because no other wave could be responsible for that phenomena.

After making a few adjustments to my VIC I'm getting some pretty waveforms!

Blue trace=Signal at TIP120 Base
Yellow trace=Primary coil current





Still not seeing resonance yet, but I also haven't scanned any frequencies since changing the coils.

ok, removed that thread. i have know idea why it would do that... ~Russ

Quote from HMS-776 on January 6th, 2017, 05:49 PM

After making a few adjustments to my VIC I'm getting some pretty waveforms!

Blue trace=Signal at TIP120 Base
Yellow trace=Primary coil current





Still not seeing resonance yet, but I also haven't scanned any frequencies since changing the coils.

Hey, it's the sperm wave :thumbsup2:
Let it rip :-D

Thanks Lynx,

I wish it would have been true resonance. It's ok though, it will bring me closer to the finish line and teach me along the way.


Everyone,
I spent about 6 hours yesterday testing and troubleshooting my VIC.
First I got the 28kHz waveforms I showed earlier, everything looked right except the voltages were very low in amplitude.
So I set out to find where the low amplitude resonance's were coming from. I figured it was the chokes SRF and that turned out to be right.

In my troubleshooting to find exactly what resonance was occurring I tried isolating the circuit in several ways.
-First I disconnected my cell and put in it's place a much larger capacitance, 390pF.
     a. Result-Still seeing resonance in the 22-28kHz range....
-Then I removed the capacitor and left the coils open
     b. Result-Still seeing resonance in the 22-28kHz range
-Next I removed the VIC from it's aluminum box
     c. Result-Still seeing resonance in the 22-28kHz range
So now I knew that the box was not causing the coils to resonate at it's srf-it was only increasing the srf
-Next I adjusted the choke inductance values and tested again
     d. Result-Still seeing peaks in the 22-24kHz range
-Next I added a DC bias to my signal
    e. Result-no changes, still seeing resonance in the 22-24kHz range
-Next I tried placing my current probe at different areas in the circuit to be sure it was not effecting anything
   f. Result-Current probe has no impact on resonances
-Next I disconnected each coil and tested it on the FFT to find it's SRF
   g. Result, L1 choke SRF is 25kHz, L2 SRF is 24kHz
So now I knew for sure that the resonance I am seeing is the chokes SRF

What is cool is the little LC meters many of us have will measure the choke capacitance by placing a lead at each of the coil.
I tried this and came up with capacitances for each coil in the 30-35pF range, take the chokes inductance and calculate the SRF and you get the same frequencies 22-28kHz.

So, I went ahead and looked at the coils damping factor, thinking that may be the problem. The coils are underdamped but only a few ohms different than Stan's. In order to critically damp them it would require a much larger resistance to be added. So it seems like the coils SRF should not be the problem here?






RONNIE,
Have you seen a similar low amplitude resonance in your circuit at around 20-30kHz?
Have you tried measuring the capacitance of your coils, and if so did you get similar results (30-35pF)?

Not sure what to do next....Start over and build a new VIC or keep working with this one.

Some fine work brad.

Thank you for the deep details.

I'm really set up already to start testing stuff.

So if there is anything you want me to test on my flat core Vic let me know

I'll be going over all my notes and trying some stuff today. Will see where we get.

~Russ

Brad I'm at work shoveling snow, was suppose to be off but we got 6" of snow last night so we all had to go into work and remove it from the side walks and parking areas. I'll try my best to help out tonight when I get home.

Quote from gpssonar on January 7th, 2017, 09:13 AM

Brad I'm at work shoveling snow, was suppose to be off but we got 6" of snow last night so we all had to go into work and remove it from the side walks and parking areas. I'll try my best to help out tonight when I get home.

Be careful shovelling snow.  There are many that have heart attacks. I don't want you to become a statistic.

Cool Ronnie, stay warm out there. It's 11 degrees here right now.

I'll be home tonight so that will work out great.

Btw, thanks for the compliments Russ. I figured all that info would speed things up for others.