Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 07:17 AM

Quote from bussi04 on May 4th, 2012, 06:30 AM

Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 04:52 AM

Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug

if the core gets hot one reason may be that the core runs into saturation. to avoid saturation primary must have a pulse voltage, minimum frequency and core parameter dependent minimum count of windings. primary windings must be calculated in a way that gating is not mandatory.

bussi04 ,
The core is not getting hot, the primary coil is when you continuous PULSE it with 1.1 Amps (50% DU) at 12V DC. The 30AWG wire is getting warm/hot so you should GATE the PULSE to lower the current feeding the primary at the same time tuning on the chokes (charge time). Lowering the input voltage (VAC voltage amplitude control) at the TIP120 also reduces the current going through the primary coil.

To all,
In scope shot I measured the signal from pin 6 op-amp pickup circuit from the feedback coil.

What are we going to measure? Resonance on secondary, chokes and WFC ??

We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??

Happy testing!

Br,
Webmug

During my testing I could get a very nice square wave back out of the opamp. This was with an iron core. Do you have any cores at all?

Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 07:17 AM

bussi04 ,
The core is not getting hot, the primary coil is when you continuous PULSE it with 1.1 Amps (50% DU) at 12V DC. The 30AWG wire is getting warm/hot so you should GATE the PULSE to lower the current feeding the primary at the same time tuning on the chokes (charge time). Lowering the input voltage (VAC voltage amplitude control) at the TIP120 also reduces the current going through the primary coil.

To all,
In scope shot I measured the signal from pin 6 op-amp pickup circuit from the feedback coil.

What are we going to measure? Resonance on secondary, chokes and WFC ??

We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??

Happy testing!

Br,
Webmug

Sorry, my mistake, I meant the coil gets hot in case of saturation, not the core.
as soon as core is saturated amp at the primary is only limited by ohmic resistance of windings and MosFet/transistor. often power supply voltage for the primary will break down for that period of time. that can be measured. if you put a resistor 0.1 ohms in series to the primary you can measure the current (= voltage over the resistor)  thru the primary by using an oscilloscope. my experience is that the peak current is much higher than the RMS current of an amp meter display.

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 4th, 2012, 03:10 PM

Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 07:17 AM

Quote from bussi04 on May 4th, 2012, 06:30 AM

Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 04:52 AM

Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug

if the core gets hot one reason may be that the core runs into saturation. to avoid saturation primary must have a pulse voltage, minimum frequency and core parameter dependent minimum count of windings. primary windings must be calculated in a way that gating is not mandatory.

bussi04 ,
The core is not getting hot, the primary coil is when you continuous PULSE it with 1.1 Amps (50% DU) at 12V DC. The 30AWG wire is getting warm/hot so you should GATE the PULSE to lower the current feeding the primary at the same time tuning on the chokes (charge time). Lowering the input voltage (VAC voltage amplitude control) at the TIP120 also reduces the current going through the primary coil.

To all,
In scope shot I measured the signal from pin 6 op-amp pickup circuit from the feedback coil.

What are we going to measure? Resonance on secondary, chokes and WFC ??

We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??

Happy testing!

Br,
Webmug

During my testing I could get a very nice square wave back out of the opamp. This was with an iron core. Do you have any cores at all?

Russ, I have a VIC with a core for testing. Not the exact specs. This is my latest custom build version V5.0.0 :D

That's why I have different results.

Br,
Webmug

Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 07:17 AM

Quote from bussi04 on May 4th, 2012, 06:30 AM

Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 04:52 AM

Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug

if the core gets hot one reason may be that the core runs into saturation. to avoid saturation primary must have a pulse voltage, minimum frequency and core parameter dependent minimum count of windings. primary windings must be calculated in a way that gating is not mandatory.

bussi04 ,
The core is not getting hot, the primary coil is when you continuous PULSE it with 1.1 Amps (50% DU) at 12V DC. The 30AWG wire is getting warm/hot so you should GATE the PULSE to lower the current feeding the primary at the same time tuning on the chokes (charge time). Lowering the input voltage (VAC voltage amplitude control) at the TIP120 also reduces the current going through the primary coil.

To all,
In scope shot I measured the signal from pin 6 op-amp pickup circuit from the feedback coil.

What are we going to measure? Resonance on secondary, chokes and WFC ??

We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??

Happy testing!

Br,
Webmug

Hi all!

I will try to answer your question: "We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??"

As I understand the working of 4046, I think when the feedback signals on the pin 14 and 3 are exactly the same frequency and phase, the output pins 1 and 2 will be in low state resulting the UD7 4001 NOR gate output to be in high state. This will occur only when the circuit has found the resonance. If I am wrong let me know.

Peace

Awww man, I'm missing out on all the action here :P  Nice Progress guys!!

For those who want to catch up and or
have a hard copy captures for education purposes

here for your FYI

Great work everyone

Dan

Hi,

Did a few tests again on the circuit.
You can see the Voltage Amplitude Control VAC in action.
The voltage is changed very slow when the duty cycle is adjusted from 99% to 1%.
(99% is low voltage and 1% is maximum voltage)
Lock-on signal is lost when the voltage at the pickup signal at TIP120 is too low for the PLL. So the offset and gain should be adjusted for min. voltage.

Measured at the secondary coil. Feedback signal is not nice but the PLL can find the secondary coil resonance frequency.

Needs more work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAhVIMv30CI

Br,
Webmug

Hi,

Tested the GATED PULSE on the PLL, no lock!!! :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5KQn8oVDpo

I think the scanner should scan faster to get the PLL locking on the feedback signal on time. My gate frequency was set at 1Hz and 3Hz. 50% duty cycle.

Sharky, Russ can you lock the PLL with gating on?

What are your findings....

Br,
Webmug

finally got my 33uf caps...

seems that its locking on exzacly the same as my bred board circuit did... :)

dont know what this means at the moment as i have only been able to play with it for a short time but once we get the cores in... then we can see.

webmug, it seems that depending on what ever??? the gating will play with the lock on.

i need more time with it to check results... at this moment i just wanted to fire it up and see what happens.

more soon...

~Russ

Hello, i hope everybody is doing well. I have come to a bit of a stand still with the PLL. I can't seem to get it to work let alone lock on. I might have got defective parts idk, but anyway i will tell you what im doing and the theory i know and if you see a problem go ahead and tell me. So the HFE4060B PLL comes with both the Phase Comparator 1 and Phase Comparator 2 and with this come to completely different ways to get a phase lock. The PC1 when locked in is 90 degree out of phase from the input signal. The lock range is dependent on the on the low-pass filter and the capture range is set by the PLL VCO. PC2 when locked in is 0 degree out of phase of input signal. The lock range is independent of the low-pass filter and the PLL VCO controls both the lock range & capture range. Currently my equation to figure out the VCO frequency is Fo= 1/((2*3.14)*R1*C1), which is oddly enough the same equation for figuring out the cut-off frequency of a low-pass filter.
 Now i can't seem to get a lock from specs VCO( C1= 270pf, R1=118K ohms) and low-pass filter(C1= 68pf, R1=150K ohms). Which would be according to my calculation 5khz VCO and 15Khz Low-pass filter. The input the frequency i am using is a 555 timer adjustable from about 480hz to about 11Khz. i just can't seem to get it to work. Please help me out here!

P.s. I noticed that in Sharky's VIC PDF the PLL VCO is (C1= 100nf, R1=560 ohm, with an offset of 100Kohm for R2) Now my question is why have the offset? What would it be good for? Couldn't the PLL VCO just be adjustable without using the optional R2 offset?

Quote from Sirgoose on May 9th, 2012, 02:52 PM

Hello, i hope everybody is doing well. I have come to a bit of a stand still with the PLL. I can't seem to get it to work let alone lock on. I might have got defective parts idk, but anyway i will tell you what im doing and the theory i know and if you see a problem go ahead and tell me. So the HFE4060B PLL comes with both the Phase Comparator 1 and Phase Comparator 2 and with this come to completely different ways to get a phase lock. The PC1 when locked in is 90 degree out of phase from the input signal. The lock range is dependent on the on the low-pass filter and the capture range is set by the PLL VCO. PC2 when locked in is 0 degree out of phase of input signal. The lock range is independent of the low-pass filter and the PLL VCO controls both the lock range & capture range. Currently my equation to figure out the VCO frequency is Fo= 1/((2*3.14)*R1*C1), which is oddly enough the same equation for figuring out the cut-off frequency of a low-pass filter.
 Now i can't seem to get a lock from specs VCO( C1= 270pf, R1=118K ohms) and low-pass filter(C1= 68pf, R1=150K ohms). Which would be according to my calculation 5khz VCO and 15Khz Low-pass filter. The input the frequency i am using is a 555 timer adjustable from about 480hz to about 11Khz. i just can't seem to get it to work. Please help me out here!

P.s. I noticed that in Sharky's VIC PDF the PLL VCO is (C1= 100nf, R1=560 ohm, with an offset of 100Kohm for R2) Now my question is why have the offset? What would it be good for? Couldn't the PLL VCO just be adjustable without using the optional R2 offset?

Hi Sirgoose,

The R1, R2 and C1-C2 cap connected to the PLL (CD4046) are for the VCO min and max frequency the VCO can generate. So if pin 9 connected to gnd you should see min and VCC max VCO frequency voltage at pll pin 4. The voltage from the Scanner circuit (triangle voltage amplitude) is used to drive the VCO.

If you use the values in Stan his circuit you have a good reference.
R1= 560ohm + pot(50kohms); R2=100kohms; C1-C2=0.1uF;

I used R1=pot(4k56ohms); R2=pot(161kohms); C1-C2=10nF

Br,
Webmug

Maybe this DOS calculator will be of use for HCT4046, 74HC4046. When I was using it in different project, my PLL was working like it should without problems.

Its not good for the HEF4046 because it has different VCO.

Quote from haozoudao1988 on May 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM

Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% Smile)
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
Here is the circuit and the program(cright click ouside of skeme select style /curent flow for a better sim)
PS:sorry for the switches i have to improvize because the program doesn't have thouse kind of multipoint SW's..see attachement
Sorry but i cand post the program ..is to bigBig Grin
down here :http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/181698201/circuit+wizard?tab=summary
AND I CANNOT ATTACH ANYTHYNG:''Please correct the following errors before continuing:
The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type.
WTF?

hey bro! use ZIP files if you want to make it work... then when you upload it kinda takes it time... but it will go!

thanks!! ~Russ

PS, this thred is still alive :)

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 10th, 2012, 11:19 PM

Quote from haozoudao1988 on May 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM

Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% Smile)
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
Here is the circuit and the program(cright click ouside of skeme select style /curent flow for a better sim)
PS:sorry for the switches i have to improvize because the program doesn't have thouse kind of multipoint SW's..see attachement
Sorry but i cand post the program ..is to bigBig Grin
down here :http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/181698201/circuit+wizard?tab=summary
AND I CANNOT ATTACH ANYTHYNG:''Please correct the following errors before continuing:
The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type.
WTF?

hey bro! use ZIP files if you want to make it work... then when you upload it kinda takes it time... but it will go!

thanks!! ~Russ

PS, this thred is still alive :)

Russ don't worry this thread is still alive,but this haozoudao1988 is copying my older posts ,and paste it out here,look at page 4 ''haozoudao1988'' whats your problem?

Uploaded  VIC1.1-20120511.zip to the first post. It contains the corrected error and track changes for the pcb. I want to add the pot meters again to the 4046 to be able to finetune its min/max frequency settings.

Quote from haozoudao1988 on May 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM

Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% Smile)
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
Here is the circuit and the program(cright click ouside of skeme select style /curent flow for a better sim)
PS:sorry for the switches i have to improvize because the program doesn't have thouse kind of multipoint SW's..see attachement
Sorry but i cand post the program ..is to bigBig Grin
down here :http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/181698201/circuit+wizard?tab=summary
AND I CANNOT ATTACH ANYTHYNG:''Please correct the following errors before continuing:
The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type.
WTF?

Zip all your program and or files, then you will be able to attach or upload them to the forum. Also leave spaces between browser addresses and or smiles, thanks ,Jeff.

Quote from adys15 on May 10th, 2012, 11:38 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 10th, 2012, 11:19 PM

Quote from haozoudao1988 on May 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM

Russ don't worry this thread is still alive,but this haozoudao1988 is copying my older posts ,and paste it out here,look at page 4 ''haozoudao1988'' whats your problem?

Yeah man me too, i saw one of my old posts crop up back from the early days of this forum when there was only about 5 of us brainstorming about the EPG.

Bad news people!!
It looks like this annoying guy was rigth about the gab betwen the cores:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHbFm7ylHY4
look what hapens with and without the gab:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlWXb3oC4rs

Quote from Muxar on May 11th, 2012, 11:31 AM

Bad news people!!
It looks like this annoying guy was rigth about the gab betwen the cores:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHbFm7ylHY4
look what hapens with and without the gab:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlWXb3oC4rs

Guy's, don't worry about Max videos, everything is under control, we need to see for ourselves if there is a gap or not, Russ say's no gap so I think we should go with that. Also, if there is proof that we need a gap we can cut one, not a problem, but think if there is no gap and we had a gap made in the cores, we would be up a creek without a paddle so to speak, so let use our own resources and not someone else's. Yes I put out the same question to Russ, and I concluded Russ was right, thanks ,guy's.:D

Quote from phil on May 11th, 2012, 10:12 AM

Quote from adys15 on May 10th, 2012, 11:38 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 10th, 2012, 11:19 PM

Quote from haozoudao1988 on May 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM

Russ don't worry this thread is still alive,but this haozoudao1988 is copying my older posts ,and paste it out here,look at page 4 ''haozoudao1988'' whats your problem?

Yeah man me too, i saw one of my old posts crop up back from the early days of this forum when there was only about 5 of us brainstorming about the EPG.

lets not worry about this either guy's, it will be looked into, I know it's frustrating, but you guy's are doing great work, so please just hang in there, thanks, Jeff.:D

Quote from Webmug on May 10th, 2012, 08:19 AM

Quote from Sirgoose on May 9th, 2012, 02:52 PM

Hello, i hope everybody is doing well. I have come to a bit of a stand still with the PLL. I can't seem to get it to work let alone lock on. I might have got defective parts idk, but anyway i will tell you what im doing and the theory i know and if you see a problem go ahead and tell me. So the HFE4060B PLL comes with both the Phase Comparator 1 and Phase Comparator 2 and with this come to completely different ways to get a phase lock. The PC1 when locked in is 90 degree out of phase from the input signal. The lock range is dependent on the on the low-pass filter and the capture range is set by the PLL VCO. PC2 when locked in is 0 degree out of phase of input signal. The lock range is independent of the low-pass filter and the PLL VCO controls both the lock range & capture range. Currently my equation to figure out the VCO frequency is Fo= 1/((2*3.14)*R1*C1), which is oddly enough the same equation for figuring out the cut-off frequency of a low-pass filter.
 Now i can't seem to get a lock from specs VCO( C1= 270pf, R1=118K ohms) and low-pass filter(C1= 68pf, R1=150K ohms). Which would be according to my calculation 5khz VCO and 15Khz Low-pass filter. The input the frequency i am using is a 555 timer adjustable from about 480hz to about 11Khz. i just can't seem to get it to work. Please help me out here!

P.s. I noticed that in Sharky's VIC PDF the PLL VCO is (C1= 100nf, R1=560 ohm, with an offset of 100Kohm for R2) Now my question is why have the offset? What would it be good for? Couldn't the PLL VCO just be adjustable without using the optional R2 offset?

Hi Sirgoose,

The R1, R2 and C1-C2 cap connected to the PLL (CD4046) are for the VCO min and max frequency the VCO can generate. So if pin 9 connected to gnd you should see min and VCC max VCO frequency voltage at pll pin 4. The voltage from the Scanner circuit (triangle voltage amplitude) is used to drive the VCO.

If you use the values in Stan his circuit you have a good reference.
R1= 560ohm + pot(50kohms); R2=100kohms; C1-C2=0.1uF;

I used R1=pot(4k56ohms); R2=pot(161kohms); C1-C2=10nF

Br,
Webmug

Thanks for your input its greatly appreciated:D. i would have got to the post sooner but i never got an email saying i got a reply >.<

God Bless

Quote from Jeff Nading on May 11th, 2012, 12:50 PM

Quote from Muxar on May 11th, 2012, 11:31 AM

Bad news people!!
It looks like this annoying guy was rigth about the gab betwen the cores:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHbFm7ylHY4
look what hapens with and without the gab:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlWXb3oC4rs

Guy's, don't worry about Max videos, everything is under control, we need to see for ourselves if there is a gap or not, Russ say's no gap so I think we should go with that. Also, if there is proof that we need a gap we can cut one, not a problem, but think if there is no gap and we had a gap made in the cores, we would be up a creek without a paddle so to speak, so let use our own resources and not someone else's. Yes I put out the same question to Russ, and I concluded Russ was right, thanks ,guy's.:D

like i stated in one of my videos, dont madder who gets it going... just do it and show how, as we all need to try deterrent stuff to get this to work...

gap, no gap...

here is why i state no gap,

i taked to Don, the man who took these photos and took the measurements and had these things in his hands.  we have had Manny phone conversations, i trust what he tells me to be valid information based on the information researched.

Don took off some silicone that was covering the hole where you can see a gap. interestingly Don stated that there was no gap or no "shim" in between the cores...   he also stated that all the coils were not bolted down, just floating there... like one had tampered with the VIC coils... some of the photos were taken after don had taken the coils apart... thus a gap is shown...  

i'm glad max is trying the gap, this will make or brake this coil set. just like the no gap. one must try it all!!!!

From the data i have collected and some others i dont think there is a gap... know one can be for sure...

the VIC may work with or with out the gap depending on the core... who knows!

jeff,

we can watch what max has to say as we are all in the same boat, ALL of us...

ALL:

if you have negative things to say about others please just stick to the DATA and not the EGO. bring forth the information presented and keep personal conflict out. it would make everything better in the long run! again, as discussed before, lets keep it positive and keep pushing this tech forward! its not about who... its about the tech at hand...

last:

i'm just one of you guys... just because i say or i think something is true or what ever dose not mean I'm right. this is all up in there air for discussion!!! including what others have to say, that includes max, he is welcome here and would love to see him post his thoughts and have a healthy discussion,  as know one has all the answers... just there best educated guess.  

and last... GOD BLESS!!! :)

~Russ

Quote from Quantum on May 10th, 2012, 09:42 AM

Maybe this DOS calculator will be of use for HCT4046, 74HC4046. When I was using it in different project, my PLL was working like it should without problems.

Its not good for the HEF4046 because it has different VCO.

That´s important to know HEF4046 and 74HC4046 are really different devices! compare datasheets. 74HC4046 has 3 different lock modes, HEF4046 only two.

Quote from bussi04 on May 12th, 2012, 01:54 AM

Quote from Quantum on May 10th, 2012, 09:42 AM

Maybe this DOS calculator will be of use for HCT4046, 74HC4046. When I was using it in different project, my PLL was working like it should without problems.

Its not good for the HEF4046 because it has different VCO.

That´s important to know HEF4046 and 74HC4046 are really different devices! compare datasheets. 74HC4046 has 3 different lock modes, HEF4046 only two.

Use the CD4046 PLL chip.
The 74HC4046 has a build-in lock detector circuit and runs at 5V VCC. We run the PLL at +10V on Sharky PCB and has external lock detector circuit. Just like Stan.

Br,
Webmug

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 11th, 2012, 11:23 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on May 11th, 2012, 12:50 PM

Quote from Muxar on May 11th, 2012, 11:31 AM

Bad news people!!
It looks like this annoying guy was rigth about the gab betwen the cores:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHbFm7ylHY4
look what hapens with and without the gab:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlWXb3oC4rs

Guy's, don't worry about Max videos, everything is under control, we need to see for ourselves if there is a gap or not, Russ say's no gap so I think we should go with that. Also, if there is proof that we need a gap we can cut one, not a problem, but think if there is no gap and we had a gap made in the cores, we would be up a creek without a paddle so to speak, so let use our own resources and not someone else's. Yes I put out the same question to Russ, and I concluded Russ was right, thanks ,guy's.:D

like i stated in one of my videos, dont madder who gets it going... just do it and show how, as we all need to try deterrent stuff to get this to work...

gap, no gap...

here is why i state no gap,

i taked to Don, the man who took these photos and took the measurements and had these things in his hands.  we have had Manny phone conversations, i trust what he tells me to be valid information based on the information researched.

Don took off some silicone that was covering the hole where you can see a gap. interestingly Don stated that there was no gap or no "shim" in between the cores...   he also stated that all the coils were not bolted down, just floating there... like one had tampered with the VIC coils... some of the photos were taken after don had taken the coils apart... thus a gap is shown...  

i'm glad max is trying the gap, this will make or brake this coil set. just like the no gap. one must try it all!!!!

From the data i have collected and some others i dont think there is a gap... know one can be for sure...

the VIC may work with or with out the gap depending on the core... who knows!

jeff,

we can watch what max has to say as we are all in the same boat, ALL of us...

ALL:

if you have negative things to say about others please just stick to the DATA and not the EGO. bring forth the information presented and keep personal conflict out. it would make everything better in the long run! again, as discussed before, lets keep it positive and keep pushing this tech forward! its not about who... its about the tech at hand...

last:

i'm just one of you guys... just because i say or i think something is true or what ever dose not mean I'm right. this is all up in there air for discussion!!! including what others have to say, that includes max, he is welcome here and would love to see him post his thoughts and have a healthy discussion,  as know one has all the answers... just there best educated guess.  

and last... GOD BLESS!!! :)

~Russ

Sorry Russ, you are very right, sorry guy,s and Max.:blush::blush: