Hi Russ,

Since you now also have a TonyWoodside PCB:) can you test the output with parallel a 220 ohm resistor connected to the TIP120 transistor and check the 50% DU cycle on your scope. Use 12V for powering the TIP120 and PCB.

I can't make it work at 50% (yet):cool:

Best regards,
Webmug

i think"use signal generator from computer"

use this program "Visual Analyser 2011" search from internet make sound card to oscilloscope and signal generator

connect to mosfer or pass optocoupler through mosfet

it can make perfect 50/50 duty and frequency about 0-15khz

or below i attached
lmc555 cmos timer can make HF to 3 MHZ

Br,
geenee

Quote from TonyWoodside on April 19th, 2012, 10:59 PM

Quote from securesupplies on April 19th, 2012, 07:33 AM

Thank you Tony ,

Your contributions are very helpful  to group as some of use are very mechanical

but just not as familiar with circuits side thank you,
interesting as,
as  we post others  reading than  spark and respond with new info so it all helps it along well.

PLease check these out

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PUbnIC9T4fFCtiWzO80ulQ7TnptSzliGQcu8V3DHzOo/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SiPuaX_kvldohC_BSPG9Q8TLQQ1sa8AQby5PdsKd0kk/edit

Tony is it possible for you to post copies
of Schematics or pcb's for Vic 8xa or others in Gerber formats?

Kindest Regards
Daniel

Here's the 8XA and VIC circuits with Gerber Files for an Excellon machine.

Hi Tony,

KiCad can´t show the circuit diagrams. What software can show the circuit diagram?

Thanks,

bussi04

Quote from Webmug on April 30th, 2012, 01:19 PM

Hi Russ,

Since you now also have a TonyWoodside PCB:) can you test the output with parallel a 220 ohm resistor connected to the TIP120 transistor and check the 50% DU cycle on your scope. Use 12V for powering the TIP120 and PCB.

I can't make it work at 50% (yet):cool:

Best regards,
Webmug

will do. ~Russ

Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM

Questions: can you post a few scope shots of the following signals?
- scanner (triangle)
- pickup from opamp
- primary coil output (no coil connected)
- gating

I am almost finished soldering the pcb, as soon as i have the time to do some tests i will make the requested scope shots.

Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM

Looks like your cell driver circuit gives lower current for the TIP120 than Stans.

Yes that is correct, i could not get the original Meyer cell driver to work. With a primary coil of about 10.5 ohms resistance the maximum current that will flow will be arround 1.1 amps. I found the current driver being able to supply that.

Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM

What frequency did you use for the PLL circuit and scanner circuit.

What is the center frequency for the PLL to use to lock-on? (LPF)

PLL range was from 200Hz to arround 5200Hz, i do not recall the exact center frequency, since i do not have it on the breadboard anymore i can not check it currently, will do when the pcb is soldered.

Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM

How did you test this without a VIC on resonance?

With a known square wave frequency at the feedback input signal (from a frequency generator)

Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM

Can you explain what function the SIG_PRIM has and why is it needed, because we have a pickup coil?

It is the signal that is fed back into the pll comparator. The PLL does not automatically compare the vco output at pin 4 with the reference (feedback coil) signal at pin 14. For that you either connect pin 4 directly to pin 3 or as in this case the signal from the point where it is fed into the primairy coil to pin3, ... any delays in intermediate components will then propagate back to the pll, the signal between pin 4 of the pll and SIG_PRIM is not exactly the same but is the one you want the pll to compare against.

About your 50% duty cycle question, ... what are you using as a power source, is that a battery or regulated power supply? I found that strange things can happen if timers or the pll are not connected to a stable voltage, that is also why meyer uses 10V because that is the highest stable voltage you can get from a 12V car battery.

Finished soldering the board, found two errors. First is a missing trace on the pcb from pin 11 of the 4046 to resistor r17. The second is the PWR trace. I made
the BATT trace wider because it has to carry more current but the same is
the case with the PWR trace and that one is not wide so i am not sure if it
can handle 1 or 2 amps like it is. In the next version of the pcb i will correct these. Connecting it shows it working as on the breadboard, now i need to make a vic transformer that has a resonance frequency within the range of this version (200Hz - 5000Hz).

Awesome man!!
You have done an amazing work!!
thanks for sharing!!

Quote from Sharky on May 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM

Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM

Questions: can you post a few scope shots of the following signals?
- scanner (triangle)
- pickup from opamp
- primary coil output (no coil connected)
- gating

I am almost finished soldering the pcb, as soon as i have the time to do some tests i will make the requested scope shots.

Great!

Quote from Sharky on May 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM

Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM

Looks like your cell driver circuit gives lower current for the TIP120 than Stans.

Yes that is correct, i could not get the original Meyer cell driver to work. With a primary coil of about 10.5 ohms resistance the maximum current that will flow will be arround 1.1 amps. I found the current driver being able to supply that.

Yes, correct. 1.1Amps at 10.5ohms. The 220ohms 2Watts resistor is needed.
So you also can't make it work? What where your problems?
Transistors should be in on saturate mode. Should also work on 12 or 10Volts.
I want this circuit to work ala meyers. :P

Quote from Sharky on May 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM

Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM

What frequency did you use for the PLL circuit and scanner circuit.

What is the center frequency for the PLL to use to lock-on? (LPF)

PLL range was from 200Hz to arround 5200Hz, i do not recall the exact center frequency, since i do not have it on the breadboard anymore i can not check it currently, will do when the pcb is soldered.

I guess 2.13kHz to 3.15kHz. (27kohm,4k7ohms,10nF)

Quote from Sharky on May 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM

Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM

How did you test this without a VIC on resonance?

With a known square wave frequency at the feedback input signal (from a frequency generator)

Sine wave (resonance coil) on the pickup (op-amp makes it square pulse)

Quote from Sharky on May 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM

Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM

Can you explain what function the SIG_PRIM has and why is it needed, because we have a pickup coil?

It is the signal that is fed back into the pll comparator. The PLL does not automatically compare the vco output at pin 4 with the reference (feedback coil) signal at pin 14. For that you either connect pin 4 directly to pin 3 or as in this case the signal from the point where it is fed into the primairy coil to pin3, ... any delays in intermediate components will then propagate back to the pll, the signal between pin 4 of the pll and SIG_PRIM is not exactly the same but is the one you want the pll to compare against.

About your 50% duty cycle question, ... what are you using as a power source, is that a battery or regulated power supply? I found that strange things can happen if timers or the pll are not connected to a stable voltage, that is also why meyer uses 10V because that is the highest stable voltage you can get from a 12V car battery.

I use a LAB REGULATED POWER SUPPLY and 7812 regulator and caps at the output from my regulator. So should be stable enough. :D

Good work on the circuit and PCB!!!!
TIP: You should build the GAIN and OFFSET circuit for the voltage amplitude control circuit and a 555 1kHz 1-99% DU on the next v1.1 pcb version!!!

Br,
Webmug

one thing I can tell you about the PLL and the 4017's is that ONLY the PLL 4046 chip will output a 50%, the 4017's will NOT output a 50% pulse. This could be why Stan didn't have the 4017's connected on his VIC cards.

yeah! all done except 33nf caps... i really think i was using 330pf for all of them on my bred board... lol ah well....

here is it thanks to sarky and everyone!

[attachment=1368]
[attachment=1369]
[attachment=1370]
[attachment=1371]

I cant believe that this VIC circuit is in my hands... :) ... cool! now if it works ... hahha

a lot of dedication and time spent here on theses replications and i want to say thanks to everyone!!! God Bless!!!!! a lot of team work, and for most, a lot of faith... we will get there!

blessings!

~Russ

PS... those 3 prong and 2 prong connecters are recycled PC fans... :P just a little trick i call Use Your Resources! LOL

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 3rd, 2012, 03:37 AM

yeah! all done except 33nf caps... i really think i was using 330pf for all of them on my bred board... lol ah well....

here is it thanks to sarky and everyone!






I cant believe that this VIC circuit is in my hands... :) ... cool! now if it works ... hahha

a lot of dedication and time spent here on theses replications and i want to say thanks to everyone!!! God Bless!!!!! a lot of team work, and for most, a lot of faith... we will get there!

blessings!

~Russ

PS... those 3 prong and 2 prong connecters are recycled PC fans... :P just a little trick i call Use Your Resources! LOL

awesome good job !!!congratulations you guys for the board,where i can find the pcb design?:d,keep the good work

Russ
awesome work
cheer!!!

Quote from adys15 on May 3rd, 2012, 04:05 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 3rd, 2012, 03:37 AM

yeah! all done except 33nf caps... i really think i was using 330pf for all of them on my bred board... lol ah well....

here is it thanks to sarky and everyone!






I cant believe that this VIC circuit is in my hands... :) ... cool! now if it works ... hahha

a lot of dedication and time spent here on theses replications and i want to say thanks to everyone!!! God Bless!!!!! a lot of team work, and for most, a lot of faith... we will get there!

blessings!

~Russ

PS... those 3 prong and 2 prong connecters are recycled PC fans... :P just a little trick i call Use Your Resources! LOL

awesome good job !!!congratulations you guys for the board,where i can find the pcb design?:d,keep the good work

First post, thanks!!!!!

Hi,

I build the replacement cell driver circuit by Sharky and now I have 50% DU at the TIP120.

Check my scope shots how this looks like, Sharky, Russ do you have the same?

I can now lock my PLL on the square wave generator as a pickup signal from the pickup-coil.

NOTE. on the pickup signal from the TIP120, if the voltage is to low (set by the voltage amplitude control) the PLL gets no valid input voltage signal from the TIP120 pickup and won't lock. So this should be calibrated also! (gain, offset)

The "Voltage Amplitude Control" has the advantage to adjust the voltage very slow by changing the duty cycle 1-99% then variable voltage. Offset is the min. voltage (for pickup??) gain the speed it changes the voltage.

(My VIC has the resonance frequency of approx 15kHz so I had to change my PLL and LPF settings)

I have to test more things...

Br,
Webmug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMmTXKH6m3E

I will check that webmug.. When I get my 33uf caps... :) ~Russ

This is how the PLL is locking-in on the pickup pulse (square wave).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCLCG_6I18

Br,
Webmug

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 3rd, 2012, 01:47 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMmTXKH6m3E

I will check that webmug.. When I get my 33uf caps... :) ~Russ

33uf? Do you mean 33 nano farads for the IC power filter caps?
Can be 100nf too I guess :cool:

Don't forget the 220 ohms 2Watts parallel resistor over the primary coil at the TIP120.

Br,
Webmug

Quote from Webmug on May 3rd, 2012, 01:36 PM

Hi,

I build the replacement cell driver circuit by Sharky and now I have 50% DU at the TIP120.

Check my scope shots how this looks like, Sharky, Russ do you have the same?

I can now lock my PLL on the square wave generator as a pickup signal from the pickup-coil.

NOTE. on the pickup signal from the TIP120, if the voltage is to low (set by the voltage amplitude control) the PLL gets no valid input voltage signal from the TIP120 pickup and won't lock. So this should be calibrated also! (gain, offset)

The "Voltage Amplitude Control" has the advantage to adjust the voltage very slow by changing the duty cycle 1-99% then variable voltage. Offset is the min. voltage (for pickup??) gain the speed it changes the voltage.

(My VIC has the resonance frequency of approx 15kHz so I had to change my PLL and LPF settings)

I have to test more things...

Br,
Webmug

Hi Webmug,
I also concluded that the current Voltage Amplitude Control will only work for the higher voltages and that for lower voltages the pll loses it lock. Do you already have the offset and gain parts worked out? We could add that to the design.

Second thing i am interested in knowing is what are the C1/C2 and R1/R2 values you are using for the bigger pll lockin range. I have been playing with several values but could not get it entirely right. I think that it would be preferable to have the pll lock in from 200Hz - 20KHz if posible, that way it can lock in to a larger range of vic coil specifications.

Thank you,
Sharky

Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 01:55 AM

This is how the PLL is locking-in on the pickup pulse (square wave).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCLCG_6I18

Br,
Webmug

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 3rd, 2012, 01:47 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMmTXKH6m3E

I will check that webmug.. When I get my 33uf caps... :) ~Russ

33uf? Do you mean 33 nano farads for the IC power filter caps?
Can be 100nf too I guess :cool:

Don't forget the 220 ohms 2Watts parallel resistor over the primary coil at the TIP120.

Br,
Webmug

Yeah, 33 nano F

Will do on the 220!

~Russ

Russ, Webmug, others, ...
Would it be preferable for future versions to have two PCB's. The first one containing the Power Supply, Gating and Voltage Amplitude Control parts  and the second one containing the rest. That way if you want to drive more than one cell you can reuse the first one and have a smaller second one for every individual coil/cell set.
Opinions?

Quote from Sharky on May 4th, 2012, 02:38 AM

Quote from Webmug on May 3rd, 2012, 01:36 PM

Hi,

I build the replacement cell driver circuit by Sharky and now I have 50% DU at the TIP120.

Check my scope shots how this looks like, Sharky, Russ do you have the same?

I can now lock my PLL on the square wave generator as a pickup signal from the pickup-coil.

NOTE. on the pickup signal from the TIP120, if the voltage is to low (set by the voltage amplitude control) the PLL gets no valid input voltage signal from the TIP120 pickup and won't lock. So this should be calibrated also! (gain, offset)

The "Voltage Amplitude Control" has the advantage to adjust the voltage very slow by changing the duty cycle 1-99% then variable voltage. Offset is the min. voltage (for pickup??) gain the speed it changes the voltage.

(My VIC has the resonance frequency of approx 15kHz so I had to change my PLL and LPF settings)

I have to test more things...

Br,
Webmug

Hi Webmug,
I also concluded that the current Voltage Amplitude Control will only work for the higher voltages and that for lower voltages the pll loses it lock. Do you already have the offset and gain parts worked out? We could add that to the design.

Second thing i am interested in knowing is what are the C1/C2 and R1/R2 values you are using for the bigger pll lockin range. I have been playing with several values but could not get it entirely right. I think that it would be preferable to have the pll lock in from 200Hz - 20KHz if posible, that way it can lock in to a larger range of vic coil specifications.

Thank you,
Sharky

My TIP120 pickup operates on max. 10.8V and min. 5.6V (voltage amplitude control).
My logic works at 12V the logical "1" and "0" input at the PLL should be in range.
If the pickup "logic" high is lower than the high PLL "logic" it won't lock-in.

You use 10V power supply so offset and gain should be adjusted for the logic "0"and "1", I guess.

The resistors for low and high frequency are set with R1 and R2. Check it by connecting pin 9 on the pll vco to gnd or vcc. Min. Max. frequency.

I'm using R1=4.56k pot, R2=161k pot, C=10nF (103) at this moment.:)

Br,
Webmug

Quote from Sharky on May 4th, 2012, 02:46 AM

Russ, Webmug, others, ...
Would it be preferable for future versions to have two PCB's. The first one containing the Power Supply, Gating and Voltage Amplitude Control parts  and the second one containing the rest. That way if you want to drive more than one cell you can reuse the first one and have a smaller second one for every individual coil/cell set.
Opinions?

I think it's a fantastic idea. Also there will need to be some thought on better ways to drive parts of the circuit...

I like. Let's test test test with this one first! A jump start is allways good!

Ps, looking good for the SS wire... Just dont know prices yet, geting the wire samples soon

Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug

Quote from Sharky on May 4th, 2012, 02:46 AM

Russ, Webmug, others, ...
Would it be preferable for future versions to have two PCB's. The first one containing the Power Supply, Gating and Voltage Amplitude Control parts  and the second one containing the rest. That way if you want to drive more than one cell you can reuse the first one and have a smaller second one for every individual coil/cell set.
Opinions?

That sounds like a very good idea Sharky, we can add to it if need be without having to change the design again.:D

Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 04:52 AM

Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug

if the core gets hot one reason may be that the core runs into saturation. to avoid saturation primary must have a pulse voltage, minimum frequency and core parameter dependent minimum count of windings. primary windings must be calculated in a way that gating is not mandatory.

Quote from bussi04 on May 4th, 2012, 06:30 AM

Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 04:52 AM

Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug

if the core gets hot one reason may be that the core runs into saturation. to avoid saturation primary must have a pulse voltage, minimum frequency and core parameter dependent minimum count of windings. primary windings must be calculated in a way that gating is not mandatory.

bussi04 ,
The core is not getting hot, the primary coil is when you continuous PULSE it with 1.1 Amps (50% DU) at 12V DC. The 30AWG wire is getting warm/hot so you should GATE the PULSE to lower the current feeding the primary at the same time tuning on the chokes (charge time). Lowering the input voltage (VAC voltage amplitude control) at the TIP120 also reduces the current going through the primary coil.

To all,
In scope shot I measured the signal from pin 6 op-amp pickup circuit from the feedback coil.

What are we going to measure? Resonance on secondary, chokes and WFC ??

We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??

Happy testing!

Br,
Webmug