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Open - Source - Research => HHO / Browns Gas / Hydroxy / Stan Meyer => Open-Source Research => Stan Meyer WFC => Topic started by: Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 06:05 AM

Title: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 06:05 AM
Several people already have build their VIC circuits based on pictures and the schematics from WO9207861. If we want to replicate Meyers work and get the cell to work we need the complete schematics. Since 'they' only sell their complete VIC schematics and do not give the full design for free its time to work it out completely and offer it for FREE (yes i share the thoughts of Russ that this will only work if all is available for free).

Haxar already did some fine work in tracing the VIC card. I now started to completely design the entire VIC with KICAD. I choose this toolset because it is available on Linux/Windows, it is open-source, reasonable easy to learn, it supports nested schematics, it comes with a good autorouter function and has the abillity to generate gerber files for pcb manufacturing. Anyway, ... if you do not like KICAD it is your problem :P, else download it at http://kicad.sourceforge.net. I used KiCad-2011-12-28-BZR3254-stable-Win_full_with_components_doc_install.exe from http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/cao/ . If you download the snapshots the libraries will not get installed. Download the project zip file and use the unarchive option in the KiCad main menu to load it.

Complete:
- variable pulse generator
- gated pulse generator
- phase lock loop circuit
- pulse indicator circuit
- resonant scanning circuit
- Voltage Amplitude Control
- cell driver circuit

Schematics build on prototype board and verified:
- variable pulse generator
- gated pulse generator
- phase lock loop circuit
- pulse indicator circuit
- resonant scanning circuit
- Voltage Amplitude Control
- cell driver circuit

PCB:
- Components to modules complete for current schematic
- Components placed and traces made
- Generated Gerber files

Latest KiCad project file date: 14 may 2012

Regards,
Sharky
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on January 18th, 2012, 10:07 AM
Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 06:05 AM
Several people already have build their VIC circuits based on pictures and the schematics from WO9207861. If we want to replicate Meyers work and get the cell to work we need the complete schematics. Since 'they' only sell their complete VIC schematics and do not give the full design for free its time to work it out completely and offer it for FREE (yes i share the thoughts of Russ that this will only work if all is available for free).

Haxar already did some fine work in tracing the VIC card. I now started to completely design the entire VIC with KICAD. I choose this toolset because it is available on Linux/Windows, it is open-source, reasonable easy to learn, it supports nested schematics, it comes with a good autorouter function and has the abillity to generate gerber files for pcb manufacturing. Anyway, ... if you do not like KICAD it is your problem :P, else download it at http://kicad.sourceforge.net.

I already did a complete variable pulse generator, gated pulse generator and cell driver circuit. I build and verified the variable pulse and gated pulse generator on a prototype board and is working correctly as currently designed.

The rest is work in progress .....
Regards,
Sharky
Nice work brother!!!! I'll check out the files after my cat nap... 24+ up time... Video editing the 35 min of HGG testing...

Free and open! The only way! Be blessed sir!

Thank you for the hard work! I will make a video of this data after I revew it! :)

Blessings! ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Forum Administrator on January 18th, 2012, 10:09 AM
Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 06:05 AM
Several people already have build their VIC circuits based on pictures and the schematics from WO9207861. If we want to replicate Meyers work and get the cell to work we need the complete schematics. Since 'they' only sell their complete VIC schematics and do not give the full design for free its time to work it out completely and offer it for FREE (yes i share the thoughts of Russ that this will only work if all is available for free).

Haxar already did some fine work in tracing the VIC card. I now started to completely design the entire VIC with KICAD. I choose this toolset because it is available on Linux/Windows, it is open-source, reasonable easy to learn, it supports nested schematics, it comes with a good autorouter function and has the abillity to generate gerber files for pcb manufacturing. Anyway, ... if you do not like KICAD it is your problem :P, else download it at http://kicad.sourceforge.net.

I already did a complete variable pulse generator, gated pulse generator and cell driver circuit. I build and verified the variable pulse and gated pulse generator on a prototype board and is working correctly as currently designed.

The rest is work in progress .....
Regards,
Sharky
Beautiful.  Thank you for the work and a post like this.  Giving Rep Points for this thread!  This is exactly the heart of this website, thank you for your contribution.


Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: KevinW_EnhancedLiving on January 18th, 2012, 09:47 PM
Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 06:05 AM
Several people already have build their VIC circuits based on pictures and the schematics from WO9207861. If we want to replicate Meyers work and get the cell to work we need the complete schematics. Since 'they' only sell their complete VIC schematics and do not give the full design for free its time to work it out completely and offer it for FREE (yes i share the thoughts of Russ that this will only work if all is available for free).

Haxar already did some fine work in tracing the VIC card. I now started to completely design the entire VIC with KICAD. I choose this toolset because it is available on Linux/Windows, it is open-source, reasonable easy to learn, it supports nested schematics, it comes with a good autorouter function and has the abillity to generate gerber files for pcb manufacturing. Anyway, ... if you do not like KICAD it is your problem :P, else download it at http://kicad.sourceforge.net.

I already did a complete variable pulse generator, gated pulse generator and cell driver circuit. I build and verified the variable pulse and gated pulse generator on a prototype board and is working correctly as currently designed.

The rest is work in progress .....
Regards,
Sharky
Hey Sharky, I cannot open the .sch files?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 10:45 PM
Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on January 18th, 2012, 09:47 PM
Hey Sharky, I cannot open the .sch files?
- Start KiCad
- Open VIC.pro project file
- Open VIC.sch
Does that work? You should now see all the subcircuits as block diagrams and the 7805 voltage regulator. Then on the right side click the second icon for Ascending/Descending into Hierarchy. Now click on a block diagram to enter that schema. While in the schema click again to leave it again.

Otherwise do others have the same problem? If i extract the zip to an other location and open the project it works for me ....

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on January 19th, 2012, 01:36 AM
Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on January 18th, 2012, 09:47 PM
Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 06:05 AM
Several people already have build their VIC circuits based on pictures and the schematics from WO9207861. If we want to replicate Meyers work and get the cell to work we need the complete schematics. Since 'they' only sell their complete VIC schematics and do not give the full design for free its time to work it out completely and offer it for FREE (yes i share the thoughts of Russ that this will only work if all is available for free).

Haxar already did some fine work in tracing the VIC card. I now started to completely design the entire VIC with KICAD. I choose this toolset because it is available on Linux/Windows, it is open-source, reasonable easy to learn, it supports nested schematics, it comes with a good autorouter function and has the abillity to generate gerber files for pcb manufacturing. Anyway, ... if you do not like KICAD it is your problem :P, else download it at http://kicad.sourceforge.net.

I already did a complete variable pulse generator, gated pulse generator and cell driver circuit. I build and verified the variable pulse and gated pulse generator on a prototype board and is working correctly as currently designed.

The rest is work in progress .....
Regards,
Sharky
Hey Sharky, I cannot open the .sch files?
lol Kevin, there not sch files for our application. but they show up  as that.
got to install this:

http://kicad.sourceforge.net(http://kicad.sourceforge.net)

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on January 19th, 2012, 01:52 AM
sharky, I'm getting some errors (see attachment)

the schematic is like not all there? is this from this error?

i opened the project file then opened the sch... and its not looking like its working?

any thoughts?
Thanks
~Russ

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on January 19th, 2012, 02:44 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 19th, 2012, 01:52 AM
sharky, I'm getting some errors (see attachment)

the schematic is like not all there? is this from this error?

i opened the project file then opened the sch... and its not looking like its working?

any thoughts?
Thanks
~Russ
i think i figured it out... i see if you right click and select enter sheet it goes to the schematic... i was think that but did not know how to get there :) haha

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on January 19th, 2012, 02:48 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 19th, 2012, 01:52 AM
sharky, I'm getting some errors (see attachment)

the schematic is like not all there? is this from this error?

i opened the project file then opened the sch... and its not looking like its working?

any thoughts?
Thanks
~Russ
What installer for KiCad did you use? I used KiCad-2011-12-28-BZR3254-stable-Win_full_with_components_doc_install.exe from http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/cao/ . If you download the snapshots the libraries will not get installed.

The first Zip file was created by myself, i now see there is also a archive/unarchive option from the main KiCad screen. The attached zip is created with the archive option, try if this works better.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on January 19th, 2012, 03:49 AM
Quote from Sharky on January 19th, 2012, 02:48 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 19th, 2012, 01:52 AM
sharky, I'm getting some errors (see attachment)

the schematic is like not all there? is this from this error?

i opened the project file then opened the sch... and its not looking like its working?

any thoughts?
Thanks
~Russ
What installer for KiCad did you use? I used KiCad-2011-12-28-BZR3254-stable-Win_full_with_components_doc_install.exe from http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/cao/ . If you download the snapshots the libraries will not get installed.

The first Zip file was created by myself, i now see there is also a archive/unarchive option from the main KiCad screen. The attached zip is created with the archive option, try if this works better.
that's better! thanks!

you may wan to edit your first post??? add that link instead?

so scanning schematic and others you are still working on?

~Russ

PS. thanks so much for doing this, i will be making a video to invite others here to help, but may wait just a bit longer till its more complete??? thoughts???



Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on January 19th, 2012, 10:58 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 19th, 2012, 03:49 AM
Quote from Sharky on January 19th, 2012, 02:48 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 19th, 2012, 01:52 AM
sharky, I'm getting some errors (see attachment)

the schematic is like not all there? is this from this error?

i opened the project file then opened the sch... and its not looking like its working?

any thoughts?
Thanks
~Russ
What installer for KiCad did you use? I used KiCad-2011-12-28-BZR3254-stable-Win_full_with_components_doc_install.exe from http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/cao/ . If you download the snapshots the libraries will not get installed.

The first Zip file was created by myself, i now see there is also a archive/unarchive option from the main KiCad screen. The attached zip is created with the archive option, try if this works better.
that's better! thanks!

you may wan to edit your first post??? add that link instead?

so scanning schematic and others you are still working on?

~Russ

PS. thanks so much for doing this, i will be making a video to invite others here to help, but may wait just a bit longer till its more complete??? thoughts???
I edited the first post and changed the attachment. When there are updates to the project i will update the zip file in the first post. As all of us my time is limited, i would love to quit my day job and focus a 100% on this but that is not posible, ... unless somebody wants to sponser me :). Anyway, i will try to move this forward as fast as posible and we do need a lot of testing on the (sub)circuits to make sure all is working correctly, e.g. i made some changes to the gating circuit because with the version of Haxar it could not be steered out enough at higher frequencies. The process of testing, calculating, retesting is very time consuming but a necesary job that has to be done.  Whenever a part is ready it would be nice if other people take the project and build and test it as well, ... all input is welcomed on this. When the other subcircuits are done we can start working on the actual PCB design.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: haxar on January 19th, 2012, 11:46 PM
Quote from Sharky on January 19th, 2012, 10:58 PM
Anyway, i will try to move this forward as fast as posible and we do need a lot of testing on the (sub)circuits to make sure all is working correctly, e.g. i made some changes to the gating circuit because with the version of Haxar it could not be steered out enough at higher frequencies.
I think it might be better to track these changes over time of the schematic and PCB project files with a version control service like GitHub.

http://github.com

I'll give this service a try so that the files don't have to be hosted on this forum only.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: WillyWatts on January 20th, 2012, 07:51 AM
I've been trying different PCB layout packages (free ones for home use), I ended up using DesignSpark as there are no restrictions (board size, layers or component count) - it's not easy to use but designed to be fleixible so companies can customise it to their requirements. It links very well to the UK long established component supplier RS Components from where you can buy (at top price) the parts you specify in your design.

Anyway, would it be possible to add plain screenshots (jpg) of the circuit? I've tried loading your sch files into DesignSpark but as expected, not joy.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on January 20th, 2012, 11:17 PM
Quote from haxar on January 19th, 2012, 11:46 PM
Quote from Sharky on January 19th, 2012, 10:58 PM
Anyway, i will try to move this forward as fast as posible and we do need a lot of testing on the (sub)circuits to make sure all is working correctly, e.g. i made some changes to the gating circuit because with the version of Haxar it could not be steered out enough at higher frequencies.
I think it might be better to track these changes over time of the schematic and PCB project files with a version control service like GitHub.

http://github.com

I'll give this service a try so that the files don't have to be hosted on this forum only.
i would say keep posting the updates files in a zip and attach it to the post, then in the post mention what you have done / changed. then any one can back track to eerilyer  posts if something don't work correctly.

 not the best but we can back track that way?

or one or 2 people agree on finishing it and work together on it as most of us are just standing by waiting or just testing some stuff out. ?

any how just some thoughts. ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on January 24th, 2012, 03:00 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 20th, 2012, 11:17 PM
Quote from haxar on January 19th, 2012, 11:46 PM
Quote from Sharky on January 19th, 2012, 10:58 PM
Anyway, i will try to move this forward as fast as posible and we do need a lot of testing on the (sub)circuits to make sure all is working correctly, e.g. i made some changes to the gating circuit because with the version of Haxar it could not be steered out enough at higher frequencies.
I think it might be better to track these changes over time of the schematic and PCB project files with a version control service like GitHub.

http://github.com

I'll give this service a try so that the files don't have to be hosted on this forum only.
i would say keep posting the updates files in a zip and attach it to the post, then in the post mention what you have done / changed. then any one can back track to eerilyer  posts if something don't work correctly.

 not the best but we can back track that way?

or one or 2 people agree on finishing it and work together on it as most of us are just standing by waiting or just testing some stuff out. ?

any how just some thoughts. ~Russ
Russ,
Is there other SA. people on the site thet i can mabe team up with or some way to find out, ar should i inspire onothers to mabe join...

Boere groete,
Mechanic
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on January 24th, 2012, 04:49 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 20th, 2012, 11:17 PM
i would say keep posting the updates files in a zip and attach it to the post, then in the post mention what you have done / changed. then any one can back track to eerilyer  posts if something don't work correctly.

 not the best but we can back track that way?

or one or 2 people agree on finishing it and work together on it as most of us are just standing by waiting or just testing some stuff out. ?

any how just some thoughts. ~Russ
Just did an update on the first post, only the resonant scanning circuit is now missing. still need to verify others but since indicator, phase lock, scanning and cell driver circuits are interconnected it is difficult to test them seperatly.
Regards,
Sharky
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: KevinW_EnhancedLiving on January 24th, 2012, 04:06 PM
Cool

The VIC Circuit includes the following circuits
"Variable Pulse Frequency Generator", "Gated Pulse Frequency Generator", "Phase Lock Circuit", "Resonant Scanning Circuit", Resonant Feedback", "Cell Driver Circuit","Analog Voltage Generator", and "Voltage Amplitude Control".. I added some my own..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrg0yYKcE7Q

From Alexandros Theologou on Facebook

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Muxar on January 25th, 2012, 12:32 AM
Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on January 24th, 2012, 04:06 PM
Cool

The VIC Circuit includes the following circuits
"Variable Pulse Frequency Generator", "Gated Pulse Frequency Generator", "Phase Lock Circuit", "Resonant Scanning Circuit", Resonant Feedback", "Cell Driver Circuit","Analog Voltage Generator", and "Voltage Amplitude Control".. I added some my own..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrg0yYKcE7Q

From Alexandros Theologou on Facebook
Wow!!!
That´s simply amazing!! i can´t wait to see it in action!
Very nice build!!
I feel we are very close!!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on January 26th, 2012, 01:03 AM
Just uploaded a PDF of the complete VIC schematic from the KiCad project. I am still not sure if 10V is absolutely needed for the circuits or that we can use 12V for all the 10V points, this would save a 7810 voltage regulator and extra 10V traces along 12V and 5V traces.

Anyway, ... a lot of testing is needed to make the schematics final and produce a PCB. So if anybody can help in building the circuits on breadboard(s) and do some testing it would be very helpful and speed up the process.

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: haxar on January 26th, 2012, 01:20 AM
Quote from Sharky on January 26th, 2012, 01:03 AM
Just uploaded a PDF of the complete VIC schematic from the KiCad project. I am still not sure if 10V is absolutely needed for the circuits or that we can use 12V for all the 10V points, this would save a 7810 voltage regulator and extra 10V traces along 12V and 5V traces.

Anyway, ... a lot of testing is needed to make the schematics final and produce a PCB. So if anybody can help in building the circuits on breadboard(s) and do some testing it would be very helpful and speed up the process.
I do have a set of 7810 linear voltage regulators and hopefully during testing it won't be a dependency.

The VIC transformer which the circuit requires is all printed out and wound up. Finally, I'm currently casting out magnetite cores using a printed mold for the transformer.

That should be all that is needed to finally test this circuit (only if the magnetite cores, going as planned, will work out).
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on January 26th, 2012, 03:10 AM
Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on January 24th, 2012, 04:06 PM
Cool

The VIC Circuit includes the following circuits
"Variable Pulse Frequency Generator", "Gated Pulse Frequency Generator", "Phase Lock Circuit", "Resonant Scanning Circuit", Resonant Feedback", "Cell Driver Circuit","Analog Voltage Generator", and "Voltage Amplitude Control".. I added some my own..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrg0yYKcE7Q

From Alexandros Theologou on Facebook
he had been working on that for quite some time now and it looks grate!!!

also some fine work sarky!!! and everyone!!

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on January 27th, 2012, 01:23 PM
Some video footage of the schematics on prototype and breadboard. Sorry for the quallity, not so good on this as Russ ;). Only the cell driver and pulse indicator are missing, the rest seems to work as expected, ... at least the manual adjustments, lets hope the lock will work as well, soon to be continued ...

http://youtu.be/OC1dSpKA-Tc
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on January 27th, 2012, 11:18 PM
Quote from Sharky on January 27th, 2012, 01:23 PM
Some video footage of the schematics on prototype and breadboard. Sorry for the quallity, not so good on this as Russ ;). Only the cell driver and pulse indicator are missing, the rest seems to work as expected, ... at least the manual adjustments, lets hope the lock will work as well, soon to be continued ...

http://youtu.be/OC1dSpKA-Tc
fantastic!!! did you get my message about working more closely on this?

cant wait to see that scanning circuit on the scope!!!!

thanks for your hard work!!!

open source or bust!!!!

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: DanB on January 29th, 2012, 07:41 AM
My 2 cents on the 10v regulated supply.
           If these circuits are run on 12v battery power, like an auto, the variation on the supply will vary due to temperature, charge state, regulator, RPM, other electrical loads like headlights, etc. Plus the electrical noise could cause missoperation. The timing circuits and the PLL are all sensitive to these voltage changes. Stan planned to use this in the dunebuggy so he isolated the circuits. If you are building a bench unit that runs on a regulated 12v supply connecting the 10v circuits to the 12v will be OK but, realize that the VIC transformer primary could cause you trouble if on the same supply. Another note, the frequency range of the PLL is partly based on the supply voltage, some component values like the resistor on pin 12 may need to be changed.

PDF schematic on first post.
         Be careful that all the 10v points are brought to the same voltage. I see that the feedback opamp is on the 12v supply and feeding the PLL running on 5v. Q8 output (12v) connected to U4C input running on 5v.
         There is a missing capacitor from U8B pins 5 & 6 to ground. Should not be tried directly to ground.
         I see you placed the 220 ohm resistor in series with the primary coil. This will limit the primary coil current to less that 50ma. I think that Stan and the KISS methode would not have used a TIP120 transistor and all the driver tranistors if the current was that low.

         You guys are doing a great job. I'm still tring to come up to speed with all of the new data sence I was last working on Stans' process about 5 yrs. ago.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on January 30th, 2012, 02:33 AM
Quote from DanB on January 29th, 2012, 07:41 AM
My 2 cents on the 10v regulated supply.
           If these circuits are run on 12v battery power, like an auto, the variation on the supply will vary due to temperature, charge state, regulator, RPM, other electrical loads like headlights, etc. Plus the electrical noise could cause missoperation. The timing circuits and the PLL are all sensitive to these voltage changes. Stan planned to use this in the dunebuggy so he isolated the circuits. If you are building a bench unit that runs on a regulated 12v supply connecting the 10v circuits to the 12v will be OK but, realize that the VIC transformer primary could cause you trouble if on the same supply. Another note, the frequency range of the PLL is partly based on the supply voltage, some component values like the resistor on pin 12 may need to be changed.

PDF schematic on first post.
         Be careful that all the 10v points are brought to the same voltage. I see that the feedback opamp is on the 12v supply and feeding the PLL running on 5v. Q8 output (12v) connected to U4C input running on 5v.
         There is a missing capacitor from U8B pins 5 & 6 to ground. Should not be tried directly to ground.
         I see you placed the 220 ohm resistor in series with the primary coil. This will limit the primary coil current to less that 50ma. I think that Stan and the KISS methode would not have used a TIP120 transistor and all the driver tranistors if the current was that low.

         You guys are doing a great job. I'm still tring to come up to speed with all of the new data sence I was last working on Stans' process about 5 yrs. ago.
First of all, thank you for this valuable feedback!!
- I think that you are right in your assumption that when connecting the vic to the electrical system of a car the circuits need to be on 10V instead of 12V because overall battery load will not assure a stable 12V. In the first version of the schematic there was only a 5V regulator, i also realized that 12V car battery output is not stable enough to drive the logic circuits, so a 12V voltage regulator is already present, i am not sure yet if i adapt the vic to 12V where needed or will add the 10V regulator and change the connections. Currently i am on the first path.

- I also looked into the 4046 datasheet a bit more, ... i had mixed up a 74LV4046 and CD4046, the latter is used on the vic, the first is a low voltage part, need to change that on my test board but for the schematic, other than the supply voltage, there is no difference in pin layout. That brings me to the next two things, the center frequency(fo) and min/max frequency(fmin/fmax) of the 4046. From the datasheet it shows that they are slightly voltage dependend but not that much, also since the values need to be adjusted with the potmeter. With C1=0.1u R1=0.56k-50.56k ohms and R2=100k i get the following:
fo = ± 500Hz - 10KHz (adjustable with 50K potmeter)
fmin = ± 300Hz
fmax = ± 700Hz - 18KHz (changes with the value of R1 potmeter)
All should be within the required range for the resonance frequency in the order of 1 - 10KHz.

- You are right about the missing cap in the pll lock circuit. I missed that one from the datasheet and will add a 6.8nF cap to ground on pin 5 and 6.

- I had not thought about the cell driver part in the way you state it and i think you are right about that. Why using a power transistor when current is restricted to 50mA. I will change that back to the parallel resitor. The cell driver circuit has to be changed anyway, ... it is not working as expected. One of these days i will do some calculations on it to determine its problem.

- i will check your comments about high voltage output connected to low voltage input, the CD4001 is a high voltage part but you are correct that i need to adjust the supply voltage to 12V if the input is 12V as well.

So, still a lot of testing to do and i hope you and others build and test the schematics as well on bread/prototype boards to get the errors out.

Again thank you for your help, together we will make this work the way it was supposed to!!!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: DanB on January 30th, 2012, 02:41 PM
I also see that between your schematic and gschem's "original fuctioning voltage intensifier circuit" schematic the 74ls122 your u12 has the timing capcator (your c12) and the clr capacitor (your c11) values swapped. I don't know which is right.

I agree with the range of the PLL, the min. frequency would only change from 200 to 300 hz. and the high end is adjusted by the pot. rv1.

Dan
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on January 30th, 2012, 11:49 PM
Quote from Sharky on January 30th, 2012, 02:33 AM
Quote from DanB on January 29th, 2012, 07:41 AM
My 2 cents on the 10v regulated supply.
           If these circuits are run on 12v battery power, like an auto, the variation on the supply will vary due to temperature, charge state, regulator, RPM, other electrical loads like headlights, etc. Plus the electrical noise could cause missoperation. The timing circuits and the PLL are all sensitive to these voltage changes. Stan planned to use this in the dunebuggy so he isolated the circuits. If you are building a bench unit that runs on a regulated 12v supply connecting the 10v circuits to the 12v will be OK but, realize that the VIC transformer primary could cause you trouble if on the same supply. Another note, the frequency range of the PLL is partly based on the supply voltage, some component values like the resistor on pin 12 may need to be changed.

PDF schematic on first post.
         Be careful that all the 10v points are brought to the same voltage. I see that the feedback opamp is on the 12v supply and feeding the PLL running on 5v. Q8 output (12v) connected to U4C input running on 5v.
         There is a missing capacitor from U8B pins 5 & 6 to ground. Should not be tried directly to ground.
         I see you placed the 220 ohm resistor in series with the primary coil. This will limit the primary coil current to less that 50ma. I think that Stan and the KISS methode would not have used a TIP120 transistor and all the driver tranistors if the current was that low.

         You guys are doing a great job. I'm still tring to come up to speed with all of the new data sence I was last working on Stans' process about 5 yrs. ago.
First of all, thank you for this valuable feedback!!
- I think that you are right in your assumption that when connecting the vic to the electrical system of a car the circuits need to be on 10V instead of 12V because overall battery load will not assure a stable 12V. In the first version of the schematic there was only a 5V regulator, i also realized that 12V car battery output is not stable enough to drive the logic circuits, so a 12V voltage regulator is already present, i am not sure yet if i adapt the vic to 12V where needed or will add the 10V regulator and change the connections. Currently i am on the first path.

- I also looked into the 4046 datasheet a bit more, ... i had mixed up a 74LV4046 and CD4046, the latter is used on the vic, the first is a low voltage part, need to change that on my test board but for the schematic, other than the supply voltage, there is no difference in pin layout. That brings me to the next two things, the center frequency(fo) and min/max frequency(fmin/fmax) of the 4046. From the datasheet it shows that they are slightly voltage dependend but not that much, also since the values need to be adjusted with the potmeter. With C1=0.1u R1=0.56k-50.56k ohms and R2=100k i get the following:
fo = ± 500Hz - 10KHz (adjustable with 50K potmeter)
fmin = ± 300Hz
fmax = ± 700Hz - 18KHz (changes with the value of R1 potmeter)
All should be within the required range for the resonance frequency in the order of 1 - 10KHz.

- You are right about the missing cap in the pll lock circuit. I missed that one from the datasheet and will add a 6.8nF cap to ground on pin 5 and 6.

- I had not thought about the cell driver part in the way you state it and i think you are right about that. Why using a power transistor when current is restricted to 50mA. I will change that back to the parallel resitor. The cell driver circuit has to be changed anyway, ... it is not working as expected. One of these days i will do some calculations on it to determine its problem.

- i will check your comments about high voltage output connected to low voltage input, the CD4001 is a high voltage part but you are correct that i need to adjust the supply voltage to 12V if the input is 12V as well.

So, still a lot of testing to do and i hope you and others build and test the schematics as well on bread/prototype boards to get the errors out.

Again thank you for your help, together we will make this work the way it was supposed to!!!!
ummmmm..... don't we need 14-35v to run a 12v regulator?

I cant find what we need to run a 10v regulator... ???

but what im thinking is to have a stable 12v out from a 12v regulater... you need at least 14v? right?

that could be the reason for the 10v regulator?

also something i wanted to point out that i think we need to add is the "voltage amplitude control"


i will attach the diagram.

this would be needed to control the output of the cell... see the 2N3055 in the voltage amplitude control circuit is the one mounted on the VIC coil set card yes???

and on that 220 resister just leave it as external connection so we can play with it?  

thoughts ? good work sharky and Dan!

~Russ

PS, after you make those changes could you post the newest working folder of the VIC card. ?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: haxar on January 31st, 2012, 12:35 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 30th, 2012, 11:49 PM
also something i wanted to point out that i think we need to add is the "voltage amplitude control"


i will attach the diagram.

this would be needed to control the output of the cell... see the 2N3055 in the voltage amplitude control circuit is the one mounted on the VIC coil set card yes???
I thought about just using a variable bench power supply for variable voltage control in place of the voltage amplitude control circuit for testing.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on January 31st, 2012, 01:14 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 30th, 2012, 11:49 PM
Quote from Sharky on January 30th, 2012, 02:33 AM
Quote from DanB on January 29th, 2012, 07:41 AM
My 2 cents on the 10v regulated supply.
           If these circuits are run on 12v battery power, like an auto, the variation on the supply will vary due to temperature, charge state, regulator, RPM, other electrical loads like headlights, etc. Plus the electrical noise could cause missoperation. The timing circuits and the PLL are all sensitive to these voltage changes. Stan planned to use this in the dunebuggy so he isolated the circuits. If you are building a bench unit that runs on a regulated 12v supply connecting the 10v circuits to the 12v will be OK but, realize that the VIC transformer primary could cause you trouble if on the same supply. Another note, the frequency range of the PLL is partly based on the supply voltage, some component values like the resistor on pin 12 may need to be changed.

PDF schematic on first post.
         Be careful that all the 10v points are brought to the same voltage. I see that the feedback opamp is on the 12v supply and feeding the PLL running on 5v. Q8 output (12v) connected to U4C input running on 5v.
         There is a missing capacitor from U8B pins 5 & 6 to ground. Should not be tried directly to ground.
         I see you placed the 220 ohm resistor in series with the primary coil. This will limit the primary coil current to less that 50ma. I think that Stan and the KISS methode would not have used a TIP120 transistor and all the driver tranistors if the current was that low.

         You guys are doing a great job. I'm still tring to come up to speed with all of the new data sence I was last working on Stans' process about 5 yrs. ago.
First of all, thank you for this valuable feedback!!
- I think that you are right in your assumption that when connecting the vic to the electrical system of a car the circuits need to be on 10V instead of 12V because overall battery load will not assure a stable 12V. In the first version of the schematic there was only a 5V regulator, i also realized that 12V car battery output is not stable enough to drive the logic circuits, so a 12V voltage regulator is already present, i am not sure yet if i adapt the vic to 12V where needed or will add the 10V regulator and change the connections. Currently i am on the first path.

- I also looked into the 4046 datasheet a bit more, ... i had mixed up a 74LV4046 and CD4046, the latter is used on the vic, the first is a low voltage part, need to change that on my test board but for the schematic, other than the supply voltage, there is no difference in pin layout. That brings me to the next two things, the center frequency(fo) and min/max frequency(fmin/fmax) of the 4046. From the datasheet it shows that they are slightly voltage dependend but not that much, also since the values need to be adjusted with the potmeter. With C1=0.1u R1=0.56k-50.56k ohms and R2=100k i get the following:
fo = ± 500Hz - 10KHz (adjustable with 50K potmeter)
fmin = ± 300Hz
fmax = ± 700Hz - 18KHz (changes with the value of R1 potmeter)
All should be within the required range for the resonance frequency in the order of 1 - 10KHz.

- You are right about the missing cap in the pll lock circuit. I missed that one from the datasheet and will add a 6.8nF cap to ground on pin 5 and 6.

- I had not thought about the cell driver part in the way you state it and i think you are right about that. Why using a power transistor when current is restricted to 50mA. I will change that back to the parallel resitor. The cell driver circuit has to be changed anyway, ... it is not working as expected. One of these days i will do some calculations on it to determine its problem.

- i will check your comments about high voltage output connected to low voltage input, the CD4001 is a high voltage part but you are correct that i need to adjust the supply voltage to 12V if the input is 12V as well.

So, still a lot of testing to do and i hope you and others build and test the schematics as well on bread/prototype boards to get the errors out.

Again thank you for your help, together we will make this work the way it was supposed to!!!!
ummmmm..... don't we need 14-35v to run a 12v regulator?

I cant find what we need to run a 10v regulator... ???

but what im thinking is to have a stable 12v out from a 12v regulater... you need at least 14v? right?

that could be the reason for the 10v regulator?

also something i wanted to point out that i think we need to add is the "voltage amplitude control"


i will attach the diagram.

this would be needed to control the output of the cell... see the 2N3055 in the voltage amplitude control circuit is the one mounted on the VIC coil set card yes???

and on that 220 resister just leave it as external connection so we can play with it?  

thoughts ? good work sharky and Dan!

~Russ

PS, after you make those changes could you post the newest working folder of the VIC card. ?
There are voltage regulators that can make a stable 12V from a 12V car battery which in general supplies between 12.2 and 12.5 volts. But since we use the LM78XX series they have a dropout voltage of 2V so yes you are right to better switch to 10V.

About the voltage amplitude control circuit, ..... at this moment i would love to have the necessity to adjust the voltage amplitude to reduce cell output :D, i had left it out because until we have a working proof of concept of a hho producing vic, coils and cell i do not think it is neccesary, on the other hand if its already there we do not have to make a new version later on to add it and for those that do not have a regulatable dc power source it may be handy as well. I will add it to the project.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on January 31st, 2012, 01:33 AM
Quote from Sharky on January 31st, 2012, 01:14 AM
There are voltage regulators that can make a stable 12V from a 12V car battery which in general supplies between 12.2 and 12.5 volts. But since we use the LM78XX series they have a dropout voltage of 2V so yes you are right to better switch to 10V.

About the voltage amplitude control circuit, ..... at this moment i would love to have the necessity to adjust the voltage amplitude to reduce cell output :D, i had left it out because until we have a working proof of concept of a hho producing vic, coils and cell i do not think it is neccesary, on the other hand if its already there we do not have to make a new version later on to add it and for those that do not have a regulatable dc power source it may be handy as well. I will add it to the project.
i see it a good thing as most users wont have a power supply (including me) and also a power supply and a battery do act differently... so from what i understand when using a battery there are transits that are acting in wired ways on the system.. just some thoughts.

and also i think that its not just the cell output but also apart of the tuning... sounds odd but would like to have the option to give it a try? and the flexibility...

hope to make this a one time build... sure modifications are needed. but once we breadboard it. its off to the PCB... we can even make it a "side item" that can be broke off the main board? you know what i mean? just some thoughts.

nice work guys! ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Quote from Sharky on January 26th, 2012, 01:03 AM
Just uploaded a PDF of the complete VIC schematic from the KiCad project. I am still not sure if 10V is absolutely needed for the circuits or that we can use 12V for all the 10V points, this would save a 7810 voltage regulator and extra 10V traces along 12V and 5V traces.

Anyway, ... a lot of testing is needed to make the schematics final and produce a PCB. So if anybody can help in building the circuits on breadboard(s) and do some testing it would be very helpful and speed up the process.
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: haxar on January 31st, 2012, 01:12 PM
Quote from adys15 on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)
There are many different variations of the VIC schematic out there. That is why I had to do a trace of the VIC card to stay close to the original components and traces as possible in order to easily debug the VIC circuitry.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: DanB on January 31st, 2012, 06:04 PM
Haxar,
    When you traced the VIC card, was there a range switch connected between the PLL and the 3 4017 ICs? I ask because if there wasn't it would mean that Stan realized that there was a problem with the design. I have tried to figure how this part of the PLL circuit could work. I have gone over the spec. sheet many times and using the PC2 output as the VCO control, the frequency and phase must match between the signal and referance inputs. Because f-out feeds the primary coil and therefore comes back on the referance input, a divider between f-out and signal input can never LOCK.          What was Stan tring to do?

As for the voltage control circuit.
     Another reason to have this capacity (if not using a variable power supply) is to limit the flux desity in the VIC transformer. Untill we get a handle on the construction and core material of the VIC transformer we need to proceed slowly to insure we don't saturate the core and burn out the driver transistor or overheat the primary coil.

Dan
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Gunther Rattay on January 31st, 2012, 06:14 PM
Quote from DanB on January 31st, 2012, 06:04 PM
Haxar,
    When you traced the VIC card, was there a range switch connected between the PLL and the 3 4017 ICs? I ask because if there wasn't it would mean that Stan realized that there was a problem with the design. I have tried to figure how this part of the PLL circuit could work. I have gone over the spec. sheet many times and using the PC2 output as the VCO control, the frequency and phase must match between the signal and referance inputs. Because f-out feeds the primary coil and therefore comes back on the referance input, a divider between f-out and signal input can never LOCK.          What was Stan tring to do?

As for the voltage control circuit.
     Another reason to have this capacity (if not using a variable power supply) is to limit the flux desity in the VIC transformer. Untill we get a handle on the construction and core material of the VIC transformer we need to proceed slowly to insure we don't saturate the core and burn out the driver transistor or overheat the primary coil.

Dan
If the core material is given and the minimum frequency used is  fixed then the primary windings can be calculated so that the transistor doesn´t blow.


Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: haxar on January 31st, 2012, 07:11 PM
Quote from DanB on January 31st, 2012, 06:04 PM
When you traced the VIC card, was there a range switch connected between the PLL and the 3 4017 ICs? I ask because if there wasn't it would mean that Stan realized that there was a problem with the design.
The 4017 divide-by-n chips in the trace revealed they are not used to divide the VCOout signal but are used only for the Oscillation LED on the card. That concludes there is also no range switch installed on the card panel.
Quote from DanB on January 31st, 2012, 06:04 PM
I have tried to figure how this part of the PLL circuit could work. I have gone over the spec. sheet many times and using the PC2 output as the VCO control, the frequency and phase must match between the signal and referance inputs. Because f-out feeds the primary coil and therefore comes back on the referance input, a divider between f-out and signal input can never LOCK.          What was Stan tring to do?
I need to publish the updated VIC schematic (in a new thread with a changelog) which includes a modification of the primary coil phase lock loop feedback with a 22k ohm resistor. See this link: https://github.com/haxar/meyer-stanley/blob/125041bbb97e498a802975faa0354dfa29e842e2/vicschem.pdf?raw=true
Quote from DanB on January 31st, 2012, 06:04 PM
As for the voltage control circuit.
     Another reason to have this capacity (if not using a variable power supply) is to limit the flux desity in the VIC transformer. Untill we get a handle on the construction and core material of the VIC transformer we need to proceed slowly to insure we don't saturate the core and burn out the driver transistor or overheat the primary coil.
The driver transistor, which is the TIP120, I have heatsinked and will probably try multiple wirewound 220 ohm resistors in parallel and in series with the primary coil to suppress any heat generation.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: jovz0597 on January 31st, 2012, 09:32 PM
new to this forum. i hope someday i could build one of this VIC even with little knowledge with electronics i'm inclined to learn this thing. it's a futuristic approach to a energy source. joven from philippines
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on February 1st, 2012, 12:05 AM
Quote from haxar on January 31st, 2012, 01:12 PM
Quote from adys15 on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)
There are many different variations of the VIC schematic out there. That is why I had to do a trace of the VIC card to stay close to the original components and traces as possible in order to easily debug the VIC circuitry.
its a good idea! you are right in my book,

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on February 1st, 2012, 12:07 AM
Quote from jovz0597 on January 31st, 2012, 09:32 PM
new to this forum. i hope someday i could build one of this VIC even with little knowledge with electronics i'm inclined to learn this thing. it's a futuristic approach to a energy source. joven from philippines
welcome! glad your here! ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on February 1st, 2012, 12:55 AM
Quote from haxar on January 31st, 2012, 07:11 PM
The 4017 divide-by-n chips in the trace revealed they are not used to divide the VCOout signal but are used only for the Oscillation LED on the card. That concludes there is also no range switch installed on the card panel.
I checked the vic images again also and you are right that the 4017's are not connected to a range switch. It would have been the 5 pin connector where pin 3 and 4 from the 4046 go to but in the end he did not put it in. I had put it in from figure 7 of the patent but i agree that it can be removed.

I will also look in to the 4046 again. On the breadboard i have it scanning but indeed it can not lock in. I will investigate the datasheet and vic trace again to determine where the errors are.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on February 1st, 2012, 03:00 AM
Quote from haxar on January 31st, 2012, 01:12 PM
Quote from adys15 on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)
There are many different variations of the VIC schematic out there. That is why I had to do a trace of the VIC card to stay close to the original components and traces as possible in order to easily debug the VIC circuitry.
I agree with you haxar,titanic work you put in!Q:the notes on the sides of schematic belongs to stans?or someone else's?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on February 1st, 2012, 03:42 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 1st, 2012, 03:00 AM
Quote from haxar on January 31st, 2012, 01:12 PM
Quote from adys15 on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)
There are many different variations of the VIC schematic out there. That is why I had to do a trace of the VIC card to stay close to the original components and traces as possible in order to easily debug the VIC circuitry.
I agree with you haxar,titanic work you put in!Q:the notes on the sides of schematic belongs to stans?or someone else's?
The notes are in dutch so they are not Stans .... where do you got those?

Some interesting information on the 4046:
http://hammer.ampage.org/files/Marston%27s4046circuits.PDF
Figure 10.21 also includes the lock indicator, i do not have the resonant scanning circuit clear yet in relation to the 4046 ...
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on February 1st, 2012, 07:59 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 1st, 2012, 03:42 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 1st, 2012, 03:00 AM
Quote from haxar on January 31st, 2012, 01:12 PM
Quote from adys15 on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)
There are many different variations of the VIC schematic out there. That is why I had to do a trace of the VIC card to stay close to the original components and traces as possible in order to easily debug the VIC circuitry.
I agree with you haxar,titanic work you put in!Q:the notes on the sides of schematic belongs to stans?or someone else's?
The notes are in dutch so they are not Stans .... where do you got those?


Some interesting information on the 4046:
http://hammer.ampage.org/files/Marston%27s4046circuits.PDF
Figure 10.21 also includes the lock indicator, i do not have the resonant scanning circuit clear yet in relation to the 4046 ...
I don't understand the writings...sorry,but looking more carefully i think you are right:(,sorry..my bad...i only wanted to help...those i got from ISOHUNT\Water Fuel Cell, HHO Various...is a pack with lots of hho stuff
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on February 1st, 2012, 11:16 AM
some simulation always helps :D , click the link below to see the simulation:

Resonant Scanning Simulation(http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+61.195984441989225+64+7.0+50%0Aw+224+160+192+160+0%0Ar+192+160+192+224+0+220000.0%0Aw+192+224+224+224+0%0Aw+192+224+192+256+0%0Aw+192+256+224+256+0%0Ac+192+256+192+320+0+9.999999999999999E-6+3.5496020366831735%0Ag+192+320+192+336+0%0Ar+192+160+192+96+0+220000.0%0Aw+192+96+288+96+0%0AR+192+96+128+96+0+0+40.0+10.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0AO+736+176+800+176+0%0A165+224+128+240+128+2+10.0%0Aw+288+96+352+96+0%0Aw+352+96+352+160+0%0Ac+432+208+432+288+0+1.0E-11+10.0%0Ar+432+96+432+176+0+1.0E7%0Aw+432+288+432+320+0%0Aw+432+320+192+320+0%0Aw+352+192+432+192+0%0Aw+432+192+432+208+0%0Aw+432+176+432+192+0%0Aw+432+96+352+96+0%0Ar+464+192+528+192+0+47000.0%0Aa+576+176+736+176+1+15.0+-15.0+1000000.0%0Aw+432+192+464+192+0%0Aw+528+192+576+192+0%0Ar+544+96+544+160+0+10000.0%0Ar+544+208+544+272+0+10000.0%0Aw+544+160+576+160+0%0Aw+544+96+432+96+0%0Aw+544+160+544+208+0%0Aw+544+272+544+320+0%0Aw+544+320+432+320+0%0Ac+704+240+624+240+0+1.0E-5+0.07667952737828454%0Ar+704+288+624+288+0+22000.0%0Aw+736+176+736+240+0%0Aw+736+240+704+240+0%0Aw+624+240+576+240+0%0Aw+576+240+576+192+0%0Aw+624+288+576+288+0%0Aw+576+288+576+240+0%0Aw+704+288+736+288+0%0Aw+736+288+736+240+0%0Ao+18+64+0+35+10.0+7.8125E-4+0+-1%0Ao+10+64+0+34+10.0+9.765625E-5+1+-1%0A)

When there is a lock at the 4046 the Resonant Scanning circuit output is being blocked by switch 4016 and thus F=0 -> vco is not being adjusted. When there is not a lock the Resonant Scanning output is being fet into the VCOin and scans. The output varies from 2.6 - 7.3 volt and is 1.5 seconds from high to low and 3 seconds from low to high.

I also updated the project file with the latest changes:
- added 7810 for 10V
- removed the 4017 ic's since they are not needed
- changed the lock indicator
- corrected the input to the 4046
- added a testpoint connector for all essential points of the schematic to take easy signal measurements when the pcb is ready
- changed the 10uF NP capacitors to two 22uF pol capacitors with the negative sides connected, the 10uF NP are hard to get (at least for me) and this way it takes less space as well, the result is the same.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on February 2nd, 2012, 03:42 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 1st, 2012, 11:16 AM
some simulation always helps :D , click the link below to see the simulation:

Resonant Scanning Simulation(http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+61.195984441989225+64+7.0+50%0Aw+224+160+192+160+0%0Ar+192+160+192+224+0+220000.0%0Aw+192+224+224+224+0%0Aw+192+224+192+256+0%0Aw+192+256+224+256+0%0Ac+192+256+192+320+0+9.999999999999999E-6+3.5496020366831735%0Ag+192+320+192+336+0%0Ar+192+160+192+96+0+220000.0%0Aw+192+96+288+96+0%0AR+192+96+128+96+0+0+40.0+10.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0AO+736+176+800+176+0%0A165+224+128+240+128+2+10.0%0Aw+288+96+352+96+0%0Aw+352+96+352+160+0%0Ac+432+208+432+288+0+1.0E-11+10.0%0Ar+432+96+432+176+0+1.0E7%0Aw+432+288+432+320+0%0Aw+432+320+192+320+0%0Aw+352+192+432+192+0%0Aw+432+192+432+208+0%0Aw+432+176+432+192+0%0Aw+432+96+352+96+0%0Ar+464+192+528+192+0+47000.0%0Aa+576+176+736+176+1+15.0+-15.0+1000000.0%0Aw+432+192+464+192+0%0Aw+528+192+576+192+0%0Ar+544+96+544+160+0+10000.0%0Ar+544+208+544+272+0+10000.0%0Aw+544+160+576+160+0%0Aw+544+96+432+96+0%0Aw+544+160+544+208+0%0Aw+544+272+544+320+0%0Aw+544+320+432+320+0%0Ac+704+240+624+240+0+1.0E-5+0.07667952737828454%0Ar+704+288+624+288+0+22000.0%0Aw+736+176+736+240+0%0Aw+736+240+704+240+0%0Aw+624+240+576+240+0%0Aw+576+240+576+192+0%0Aw+624+288+576+288+0%0Aw+576+288+576+240+0%0Aw+704+288+736+288+0%0Aw+736+288+736+240+0%0Ao+18+64+0+35+10.0+7.8125E-4+0+-1%0Ao+10+64+0+34+10.0+9.765625E-5+1+-1%0A)

When there is a lock at the 4046 the Resonant Scanning circuit output is being blocked by switch 4016 and thus F=0 -> vco is not being adjusted. When there is not a lock the Resonant Scanning output is being fet into the VCOin and scans. The output varies from 2.6 - 7.3 volt and is 1.5 seconds from high to low and 3 seconds from low to high.

I also updated the project file with the latest changes:
- added 7810 for 10V
- removed the 4017 ic's since they are not needed
- changed the lock indicator
- corrected the input to the 4046
- added a testpoint connector for all essential points of the schematic to take easy signal measurements when the pcb is ready
- changed the 10uF NP capacitors to two 22uF pol capacitors with the negative sides connected, the 10uF NP are hard to get (at least for me) and this way it takes less space as well, the result is the same.
nice one! the circuit i don't think worked correctly.?.?. PS love that applet!


i will gather up the stuff needed to etch the test board.

do we know the size just yet? i know you mentioned it but are we still with that size?

I'm awaiting and ready! :)

good stuff. i love open source! its the way its suppose to be!

i told every body over and over that i cant do this by my self... and that the truth! team is the key! everyone used there expertise and we will get this done!!!

also working on some test cells and VIC stuff with Chris and Josh, there doing some good work! when we get there ill try to get you a test cell that way we all have the same stuff... cool?

~Russ

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on February 4th, 2012, 05:18 AM
Working on the Voltage Amplitude Control i reanalized the VIC card and also the sketches of the coilpack connections. The conclusion is that the 7805 in there is not connected to the Voltage Amplitude Control as in the figure 4 of the patent, it is only connected to the feedbackcoil and the input of an extra opamp that is on the vic card but not in the patent. Most of the Figure 4 schematic seems to serve no purpose other that stabilizing and buffering.

A big question mark for me still is the 2N3055 transistor, ... why put in a 15 amp power transistor if he is talking about milliamps of power consumption? Any ideas on that? The TIP120 which is rated at 5 amps should do the trick alone, is maybe the vic first consuming a lot of current and only throtteling back when the disassociation of water is started, resonance is there and amps are reduced?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on February 4th, 2012, 08:51 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 4th, 2012, 05:18 AM
Working on the Voltage Amplitude Control i reanalized the VIC card and also the sketches of the coilpack connections. The conclusion is that the 7805 in there is not connected to the Voltage Amplitude Control as in the figure 4 of the patent, it is only connected to the feedbackcoil and the input of an extra opamp that is on the vic card but not in the patent. Most of the Figure 4 schematic seems to serve no purpose other that stabilizing and buffering.

A big question mark for me still is the 2N3055 transistor, ... why put in a 15 amp power transistor if he is talking about milliamps of power consumption? Any ideas on that? The TIP120 which is rated at 5 amps should do the trick alone, is maybe the vic first consuming a lot of current and only throtteling back when the disassociation of water is started, resonance is there and amps are reduced?
Hi Sharky,

Still new here, but what your'e thinking makes sence. The proof will in time be in the pooding (testing)
Well great stuff so far... I'll soon join in the build and drive you crazy with questions (SORRY)
Great job so far!!!
Mechanic.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ


Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: sebosfato on February 10th, 2012, 01:14 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.
hello
I simplified the scanning circuit by wiring 555 timer only pin 4 and 8 to 5v vcc , pin 2 and 6 together with a 2,2uf capacitor to ground and pin 3 connected to 2and 6 thru a 100k resistor,(pin 7remain non connected) the same pin 3 connected to the opamp thru a 100k resistor. The feedback capacitor on the opamp is 1uf bipolar... this gives me 3hz ramp wave... i used also a potentiometer to set the ref voltage at the other input of the opamp... good luck

tip: use a simulator

BR
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on February 10th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Quote from sebosfato on February 10th, 2012, 01:14 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.
hello
I simplified the scanning circuit by wiring 555 timer only pin 4 and 8 to 5v vcc , pin 2 and 6 together with a 2,2uf capacitor to ground and pin 3 connected to 2and 6 thru a 100k resistor,(pin 7remain non connected) the same pin 3 connected to the opamp thru a 100k resistor. The feedback capacitor on the opamp is 1uf bipolar... this gives me 3hz ramp wave... i used also a potentiometer to set the ref voltage at the other input of the opamp... good luck

tip: use a simulator

BR
Any results from your modified circuit?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on February 10th, 2012, 11:36 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on February 10th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Quote from sebosfato on February 10th, 2012, 01:14 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.
hello
I simplified the scanning circuit by wiring 555 timer only pin 4 and 8 to 5v vcc , pin 2 and 6 together with a 2,2uf capacitor to ground and pin 3 connected to 2and 6 thru a 100k resistor,(pin 7remain non connected) the same pin 3 connected to the opamp thru a 100k resistor. The feedback capacitor on the opamp is 1uf bipolar... this gives me 3hz ramp wave... i used also a potentiometer to set the ref voltage at the other input of the opamp... good luck

tip: use a simulator

BR
Any results from your modified circuit?
Hi ALL,
Again i've got some dum thing to add, after speaking to a electrichian... You guys might know this but according to him when working with high current and needto drop amps and increase volts you should wind your coil long in length, wires not overlapping each other and using thin wire...
For high amps low volts you should use short windings in length, on top of each other in the length and the wire should be thick...

Well i'm still trying to test this but don't have high volts or amp equipment to realy perform such a test...
Can someone maby confirm this....?
Well, there goes...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on February 10th, 2012, 03:41 PM
Quote from Mechanic on February 10th, 2012, 11:36 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on February 10th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Quote from sebosfato on February 10th, 2012, 01:14 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.
hello
I simplified the scanning circuit by wiring 555 timer only pin 4 and 8 to 5v vcc , pin 2 and 6 together with a 2,2uf capacitor to ground and pin 3 connected to 2and 6 thru a 100k resistor,(pin 7remain non connected) the same pin 3 connected to the opamp thru a 100k resistor. The feedback capacitor on the opamp is 1uf bipolar... this gives me 3hz ramp wave... i used also a potentiometer to set the ref voltage at the other input of the opamp... good luck

tip: use a simulator

BR
Any results from your modified circuit?
Hi ALL,
Again i've got some dum thing to add, after speaking to a electrichian... You guys might know this but according to him when working with high current and needto drop amps and increase volts you should wind your coil long in length, wires not overlapping each other and using thin wire...
For high amps low volts you should use short windings in length, on top of each other in the length and the wire should be thick...

Well i'm still trying to test this but don't have high volts or amp equipment to realy perform such a test...
Can someone maby confirm this....?
Well, there goes...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Yes Mechanic, this is true in most cases, there are exceptions. But to prove your statement you only have to look at a step up transformer [ fly back transformer] and a mig welder. There are formulas and equations for this and also a measurement of hysteresis enters in to it,  permeability of the core material and other items as well, here's a link to help understand it better,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_core :D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: sebosfato on February 11th, 2012, 05:38 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on February 10th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Quote from sebosfato on February 10th, 2012, 01:14 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.
hello
I simplified the scanning circuit by wiring 555 timer only pin 4 and 8 to 5v vcc , pin 2 and 6 together with a 2,2uf capacitor to ground and pin 3 connected to 2and 6 thru a 100k resistor,(pin 7remain non connected) the same pin 3 connected to the opamp thru a 100k resistor. The feedback capacitor on the opamp is 1uf bipolar... this gives me 3hz ramp wave... i used also a potentiometer to set the ref voltage at the other input of the opamp... good luck

tip: use a simulator

BR
Any results from your modified circuit?
It ensures the pll keep searching for resonance.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on February 11th, 2012, 11:23 AM
I talked to Don on the phone. He said that the resonant scanning circuit would lock in on the third harmonic. So even without the cell it would lock in to the third harmonic when searching for the Resonant frequency. so basically the coils themselves in the VIC has enough capacitance to create the LRC resonant circuit needed. For the phase lock loop to work.  So just some interesting information. so even without the cell it would still lock into residence. When he added the cell he said it would change a little.

The third harmonic. So if it's resonating at 1 Hz then you'd see a harmonic at 2 Hz and you also see a Hamonic at 4 Hz. It would lock in to the 4 Hz. I guess it's because it was a higher voltage spike at that frequency.
   Food for thought

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on February 11th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Updated the schematics, did all on the breadboard now. Also added the voltage amplitude control in a more simplified version, .... the 2n3055 gets pretty hot while not drawing that much current, maybe blocking the BEMF from the collapse of the primary coil field? Also changed the Cell Driver circuit which now seems to work just fine. The scanning frequency generated by the resonant scanning circuit seems allright but the 4046 is not locking on, the signal from the resonant scanning circuit gets inputted to the 4046 but the vco does not seem to change it frequency. More testing and measurements are needed ....
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on February 14th, 2012, 01:04 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 11th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Updated the schematics, did all on the breadboard now. Also added the voltage amplitude control in a more simplified version, .... the 2n3055 gets pretty hot while not drawing that much current, maybe blocking the BEMF from the collapse of the primary coil field? Also changed the Cell Driver circuit which now seems to work just fine. The scanning frequency generated by the resonant scanning circuit seems allright but the 4046 is not locking on, the signal from the resonant scanning circuit gets inputted to the 4046 but the vco does not seem to change it frequency. More testing and measurements are needed ....
thanks for the update sharky! hope to have a cell to send you in some weeks... good stuff.

keep it up! ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on February 19th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% :))
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
Here is the circuit and the program(cright click ouside of skeme select style /curent flow for a better sim)
PS:sorry for the switches i have to improvize because the program doesn't have thouse kind of multipoint SW's..see attachement
Sorry but i cand post the program ..is to big:D
down here :http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/181698201/circuit+wizard?tab=summary


AND I CANNOT ATTACH ANYTHYNG:''Please correct the following errors before continuing:

    The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type.

WTF?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on February 19th, 2012, 12:59 PM
Quote from adys15 on February 19th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% :))
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
Here is the circuit and the program(cright click ouside of skeme select style /curent flow for a better sim)
PS:sorry for the switches i have to improvize because the program doesn't have thouse kind of multipoint SW's..see attachement
Sorry but i cand post the program ..is to big:D
down here :http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/181698201/circuit+wizard?tab=summary


AND I CANNOT ATTACH ANYTHYNG:''Please correct the following errors before continuing:

    The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type.

WTF?
Put it in a zipped folder then you should be able to upload the files or whatever.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on February 19th, 2012, 01:24 PM
attachement...thanks jeff..i tried .rar but not worked...but zip worked thanks
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 12:36 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 19th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% :))
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
adys, please consider that all people on this forum are doing this on their sparetime, please refer from pushing people to work harder or complaints that things are going to slow. If you have something positive to add to the discussion you are very welcome, otherwise better refer from posting.

On to your question, .... the frequency generator works together with the gated pulse generator. The 100k pot in the first is for changing the frequency of the gating, the 100k pot in the second for changing the duty cycle of the gating. Build the circuits on a breadboard and do measurements to understand its workings. I do not know circuit wizard so i can not help you out on that one.

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM


adys, please consider that all people on this forum are doing this on their sparetime, please refer from pushing people to work harder or complaints that things are going to slow. If you have something positive to add to the discussion you are very welcome, otherwise better refer from posting.



I know you guys are working in youre spare time,i work in the spare time..if i said that the thread is dead i did not mean to offend no one by saying that they are not working and gave up or they are slow,but just to post even a little achevement or experiment if it is...whateever...


''On to your question, .... the frequency generator works together with the gated pulse generator. The 100k pot in the first is for changing the frequency of the gating, the 100k pot in the second for changing the duty cycle of the gating. Build the circuits on a breadboard and do measurements to understand its workings. I do not know circuit wizard so i can not help you out on that one.''

I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
And for the circuit wiz.:is verry verry easy to work with..it is installing quickly,is simple,it has all the parts you need,i think is beter than multisim because it has that feauture of showing curent flow/voltage colours,arows,cap charging..etc
and in multisim you click run sim and nothing shows..conect a wire to pwr surce not let you.verry complex program but usseles(my opinion dont jump on me:)) )
Sorry for long talk...and sorry if I offended anyone...don't mean..Cheers!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 04:41 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!

thanks for the reply sharky..i understand now, freq gen creates the base freq.(the carier wave)and then the gate andjust the dutty cycle,thats what i say in the first post,just a little diffrent(undestand,i am a novice in electronics,i know only the basics...)thanks again

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on February 22nd, 2012, 01:30 AM
sharky, here is my measurements of VIC and CAP...

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=119&pid=3303#pid3303(http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=119&pid=3303#pid3303)

 let me know what you calculate for resonance.

also calculate resonance with no cap... as the coils themselves are enough to create resonance? as don has stated to me...???

thanks!! ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky  
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on February 28th, 2012, 11:02 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,:D

Sorry for asking, what is the reason for this link.... maybe suppliers, prices or the values of the components, sorry man i'm very uneducated with these things.....:angel: I'm going to try and  add my Quote's.... Please if possible have a look and reply...:huh:
[attachment=922]
Boere groete,
Mechanic.

NB: Just checked the link in more detail and seen, 2N2222 & 2N3906G in link, is NOT on the schematics... Why ? Work in progress ?
NBB: On wich Schematic is the 0.01u (1Kv) cap...? Sorry buddy, i started matching up the parts with the sche... Maybe only me and my good knowledge or some
thing's fishy... SORRY....
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 2nd, 2012, 08:00 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 28th, 2012, 11:02 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,:D

Sorry for asking, what is the reason for this link.... maybe suppliers, prices or the values of the components, sorry man i'm very uneducated with these things.....:angel: I'm going to try and  add my Quote's.... Please if possible have a look and reply...:huh:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.

NB: Just checked the link in more detail and seen, 2N2222 & 2N3906G in link, is NOT on the schematics... Why ? Work in progress ?
NBB: On wich Schematic is the 0.01u (1Kv) cap...? Sorry buddy, i started matching up the parts with the sche... Maybe only me and my good knowledge or some
thing's fishy... SORRY....
Hi Mechanic,
The 2N2222 & 2N3906 are from the original cell driver circuit, in the project it is still available as Cell Driver Original.sch. The new version does not use those transistors. The 0.01u is in the schematic placed as 10n on pin 13 from the 4046 to ground. 0.01u=10n but i will change that to keep it the same. Do not pay to much attention to the voltage ratings of the caps, i actually have not put to much attention to it since most will not have to handle to much of a voltage. High voltage from the cell is decoupled through the primairy/secondary coils. So you can use lower voltage ratings as well.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 3rd, 2012, 05:28 AM
Hi,

I was wondering, looking at Russ his video about the SM VIC ,where he has unipolar voltages at the open VIC coils for the resonance cell, how it was pulsed.

Looking at the pulse signal in the Dealership Sales Manual, how Resonant Action is done, did you see the pulses he used in the figure? p60 Fig.16.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1305.msg22161.html#msg22161
SM pulsed it lets say, 0Vdc to Va dc, but when he wants resonant action he pulses 0Vdc to Vn dc. So the gating window where amplitude is higher he adjusted it to get Resonant Action. This simultaneous with the pulse frequency for the coil resonance.

The patent circuit driver does not do this, only 0V dc to Va dc. at the TIP120 transistor. Gate adjust the 0V to Va voltage pulse with?

Update:
When GATE is ON, voltage amplitude should go up to a higher pulse voltage level setting (gas pedal) gas production (step charge);
GATE OFF, amplitude is pulse resonance maintained (no step charge).
See circuit "voltage amplitude control".

Have you looked into this?

Br,
Webmug
Title: This Complex
Post by: pha3z on March 7th, 2012, 01:48 PM
I'm an electronics newb.  I hate dealing with anything more complicated than 555s and basic oscillator circuits.

I also know that Stan Meyer was a brilliant man, probably able to do far above anything I will ever be able to do myself. He even advocated KISS and thought over-engineering things was stupid, so who am I to question him?

Despite all that, I've still I've got one question:
Does matching the resonance of the circuit really have to be so complicated as to include this phase lock loop circuitry?   If I understand all this correctly, the only reason you can't pulse a water cell at a constant frequency is because gas production changes the capacitance of the water cell.  So isn't there a simpler circuit that can respond to the changed capacitance, much the same way that an oscillator times its pulses based on feedback from the tank circuit coil??

How many ameteurs can understand and implement things like Phase Lock Loop circuits?  This boggles my mind.  Unless someone can make it simple for me.

- Jim
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on March 10th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 2nd, 2012, 08:00 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 28th, 2012, 11:02 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,:D

Sorry for asking, what is the reason for this link.... maybe suppliers, prices or the values of the components, sorry man i'm very uneducated with these things.....:angel: I'm going to try and  add my Quote's.... Please if possible have a look and reply...:huh:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.

NB: Just checked the link in more detail and seen, 2N2222 & 2N3906G in link, is NOT on the schematics... Why ? Work in progress ?
NBB: On wich Schematic is the 0.01u (1Kv) cap...? Sorry buddy, i started matching up the parts with the sche... Maybe only me and my good knowledge or some
thing's fishy... SORRY....
Hi Mechanic,
The 2N2222 & 2N3906 are from the original cell driver circuit, in the project it is still available as Cell Driver Original.sch. The new version does not use those transistors. The 0.01u is in the schematic placed as 10n on pin 13 from the 4046 to ground. 0.01u=10n but i will change that to keep it the same. Do not pay to much attention to the voltage ratings of the caps, i actually have not put to much attention to it since most will not have to handle to much of a voltage. High voltage from the cell is decoupled through the primairy/secondary coils. So you can use lower voltage ratings as well.
Hi Sharky,:exclamation:

I'm almost finished building all the schematics and before i put voltage to all the connections i want to know where on the car to get 10+ & 5+ connections or do i connect 12V to everything...? Should i now build or buy a inverter to drive all the diffrent Volt... in puts of 10+ & 5+..?
One other question...., do the circuits produce the Kv to split the water or does the circuits get driven by something else that supply the Kv....? For me it seems much esier to make 50Kv and then just let the circuits guide the Kv to resinance, locking, pulsing etc.. etc..? Is this what no one knows or is sure of...?
Well i'm waiting for your reply....;)

Boere groete,
Mechanic:rolleyes:
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 10th, 2012, 12:55 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 10th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 2nd, 2012, 08:00 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 28th, 2012, 11:02 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,:D

Sorry for asking, what is the reason for this link.... maybe suppliers, prices or the values of the components, sorry man i'm very uneducated with these things.....:angel: I'm going to try and  add my Quote's.... Please if possible have a look and reply...:huh:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.

NB: Just checked the link in more detail and seen, 2N2222 & 2N3906G in link, is NOT on the schematics... Why ? Work in progress ?
NBB: On wich Schematic is the 0.01u (1Kv) cap...? Sorry buddy, i started matching up the parts with the sche... Maybe only me and my good knowledge or some
thing's fishy... SORRY....
Hi Mechanic,
The 2N2222 & 2N3906 are from the original cell driver circuit, in the project it is still available as Cell Driver Original.sch. The new version does not use those transistors. The 0.01u is in the schematic placed as 10n on pin 13 from the 4046 to ground. 0.01u=10n but i will change that to keep it the same. Do not pay to much attention to the voltage ratings of the caps, i actually have not put to much attention to it since most will not have to handle to much of a voltage. High voltage from the cell is decoupled through the primairy/secondary coils. So you can use lower voltage ratings as well.
Hi Sharky,:exclamation:

I'm almost finished building all the schematics and before i put voltage to all the connections i want to know where on the car to get 10+ & 5+ connections or do i connect 12V to everything...? Should i now build or buy a inverter to drive all the diffrent Volt... in puts of 10+ & 5+..?
One other question...., do the circuits produce the Kv to split the water or does the circuits get driven by something else that supply the Kv....? For me it seems much esier to make 50Kv and then just let the circuits guide the Kv to resinance, locking, pulsing etc.. etc..? Is this what no one knows or is sure of...?
Well i'm waiting for your reply....;)

Boere groete,
Mechanic:rolleyes:
Well Mechanic, I know of no place on the vehicle to get other than 12 to 14 volts dc or high voltage for the sparkplugs, so if you need multiple dc voltages you will have to build it into the circuits, should not be to hard :D . I as of yet have not built the rustic circuit, am going to when I finish the 3d printer I built to print the vic bobbins. So, I will know more about it when I get into it, someone should be able to answer your other questions like Russ or Dirt will, email them if need be.:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on March 11th, 2012, 04:50 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 10th, 2012, 12:55 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 10th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 2nd, 2012, 08:00 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 28th, 2012, 11:02 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,:D

Sorry for asking, what is the reason for this link.... maybe suppliers, prices or the values of the components, sorry man i'm very uneducated with these things.....:angel: I'm going to try and  add my Quote's.... Please if possible have a look and reply...:huh:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.

NB: Just checked the link in more detail and seen, 2N2222 & 2N3906G in link, is NOT on the schematics... Why ? Work in progress ?
NBB: On wich Schematic is the 0.01u (1Kv) cap...? Sorry buddy, i started matching up the parts with the sche... Maybe only me and my good knowledge or some
thing's fishy... SORRY....
Hi Mechanic,
The 2N2222 & 2N3906 are from the original cell driver circuit, in the project it is still available as Cell Driver Original.sch. The new version does not use those transistors. The 0.01u is in the schematic placed as 10n on pin 13 from the 4046 to ground. 0.01u=10n but i will change that to keep it the same. Do not pay to much attention to the voltage ratings of the caps, i actually have not put to much attention to it since most will not have to handle to much of a voltage. High voltage from the cell is decoupled through the primairy/secondary coils. So you can use lower voltage ratings as well.
Hi Sharky,:exclamation:

I'm almost finished building all the schematics and before i put voltage to all the connections i want to know where on the car to get 10+ & 5+ connections or do i connect 12V to everything...? Should i now build or buy a inverter to drive all the diffrent Volt... in puts of 10+ & 5+..?
One other question...., do the circuits produce the Kv to split the water or does the circuits get driven by something else that supply the Kv....? For me it seems much esier to make 50Kv and then just let the circuits guide the Kv to resinance, locking, pulsing etc.. etc..? Is this what no one knows or is sure of...?
Well i'm waiting for your reply....;)

Boere groete,
Mechanic:rolleyes:
Well Mechanic, I know of no place on the vehicle to get other than 12 to 14 volts dc or high voltage for the sparkplugs, so if you need multiple dc voltages you will have to build it into the circuits, should not be to hard :D . I as of yet have not built the rustic circuit, am going to when I finish the 3d printer I built to print the vic bobbins. So, I will know more about it when I get into it, someone should be able to answer your other questions like Russ or Dirt will, email them if need be.:D
Hi Uncle Jeff,:D
What is this about 3d printers and vic bobbins...?:huh: Explain some more... Where does that fit in & what's that for... also is there going to be more updates or info placed on the circuits any time soon...?:angel: I don't no to test for flaws or other tings, like where is the test points to check outputs on the diffrent circuits or is that the reason for the testpoint block on the first page of the VIC pdf file...?:huh: Also what is that drawing on the first page of the pdf file about...?:huh: Where does that sch.. fit in & connect to..?:huh:
Please.., answers, i think i'll finish tommorow (mon) and would like to do tests and help solve the circuits ridle in our quest...:cool: What info is needed...?:heart:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.:exclamation:
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 11th, 2012, 06:49 AM
Well the 3d printer is on this forum, @ these links, :D
http://open-source-energy.org/?fid=40
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=124  
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=122

The vic bobbins are for Stan's electronic circuits, free for download to anyone.
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=363
They were made buy haxar and firepinto, produced through Google sketchup then converted into an stl that the printer software can read then changed to gcode, at that point the printer prints out a part in plastic, makes a usable part, see my video, :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gOhH_U4Ijs&list=UU5MWkMsbXeqTSQGihR0is1Q&index=1&feature=plcp
Three of us built this machine on this forum that I know of, the two I mentioned earlier and I myself. See the photo I posted of Stan's vic bobbins in his circuit setup. To answer your other questions please email, linked here::D
http://open-source-energy.org/?action=profile;u=97
http://open-source-energy.org/?action=profile;u=955
http://open-source-energy.org/?action=profile;u=2
 Well, I hope this helps you get some answers,:D .
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 11th, 2012, 05:15 PM
Quote from Webmug on March 3rd, 2012, 05:28 AM
Hi,

I was wondering, looking at Russ his video about the SM VIC ,where he has unipolar voltages at the open VIC coils for the resonance cell, how it was pulsed.

Looking at the pulse signal in the Dealership Sales Manual, how Resonant Action is done, did you see the pulses he used in the figure? p60 Fig.16.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1305.msg22161.html#msg22161
SM pulsed it lets say, 0Vdc to Va dc, but when he wants resonant action he pulses 0Vdc to Vn dc. So the gating window where amplitude is higher he adjusted it to get Resonant Action. This simultaneous with the pulse frequency for the coil resonance.

The patent circuit driver does not do this, only 0V dc to Va dc. at the TIP120 transistor. Gate adjust the 0V to Va voltage pulse with?

Update:
When GATE is ON, voltage amplitude should go up to a higher pulse voltage level setting (gas pedal) gas production (step charge);
GATE OFF, amplitude is pulse resonance maintained (no step charge).
See circuit "voltage amplitude control".

Have you looked into this?

Br,
Webmug
Don stated that the Gating was a hand tuned part of the GMS... so once set its not messed with... its part of tuning??? ~Russ

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on March 11th, 2012, 07:50 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 11th, 2012, 05:15 PM
Quote from Webmug on March 3rd, 2012, 05:28 AM
Hi,

I was wondering, looking at Russ his video about the SM VIC ,where he has unipolar voltages at the open VIC coils for the resonance cell, how it was pulsed.

Looking at the pulse signal in the Dealership Sales Manual, how Resonant Action is done, did you see the pulses he used in the figure? p60 Fig.16.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1305.msg22161.html#msg22161
SM pulsed it lets say, 0Vdc to Va dc, but when he wants resonant action he pulses 0Vdc to Vn dc. So the gating window where amplitude is higher he adjusted it to get Resonant Action. This simultaneous with the pulse frequency for the coil resonance.

The patent circuit driver does not do this, only 0V dc to Va dc. at the TIP120 transistor. Gate adjust the 0V to Va voltage pulse with?

Update:
When GATE is ON, voltage amplitude should go up to a higher pulse voltage level setting (gas pedal) gas production (step charge);
GATE OFF, amplitude is pulse resonance maintained (no step charge).
See circuit "voltage amplitude control".

Have you looked into this?

Br,
Webmug
Don stated that the Gating was a hand tuned part of the GMS... so once set its not messed with... its part of tuning??? ~Russ
Hi,
I'll first have to go study the short hand, GMS..,VA dc.., Vn dc.., etc....
Get back to you soon...Sorry...
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 12th, 2012, 01:07 AM
updated my measurements with 30AWG... looks golden!!! see attached sheet on that post... thanks!

`Russ

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580(http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on March 12th, 2012, 03:43 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 12th, 2012, 01:07 AM
updated my measurements with 30AWG... looks golden!!! see attached sheet on that post... thanks!

`Russ

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580(http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580)
Hi Mr. Bussy Bee.

Do you have this in english....?:P Idon't understand a word can you make that more simple if posible... or give sch... or specs?:huh: Before you explain..., please help With my Questions earlier up in the post... 5v & 10v connect... and is this coils driving the circuits & cell...?:D

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB. I finished building the VIC work in prog.... schematics. Need to know about the small sch... on the first page of the pdf of this circuits as well...?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 13th, 2012, 02:40 AM
Quote from Mechanic on March 12th, 2012, 03:43 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 12th, 2012, 01:07 AM
updated my measurements with 30AWG... looks golden!!! see attached sheet on that post... thanks!

`Russ

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580(http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580)
Hi Mr. Bussy Bee.

Do you have this in english....?:P Idon't understand a word can you make that more simple if posible... or give sch... or specs?:huh: Before you explain..., please help With my Questions earlier up in the post... 5v & 10v connect... and is this coils driving the circuits & cell...?:D

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB. I finished building the VIC work in prog.... schematics. Need to know about the small sch... on the first page of the pdf of this circuits as well...?
Hi Mechanic,
The first page of the pdf shows the main schematic that contains all the sub-schematics as they were created by Meyer and how they are interconnected. They also contain things needed in all sub schematics like the power connections. Currently the design makes use of +5V and +10V which are created from a +12V car battery via the 7805 and 7810 voltage regulators on that first page. If in the rest of the schematics there is a +5V connection, connect it to the 7805 voltage regulator and if there is a +10V connection connect it to the 7810 voltage regulator, thats all there is to it.

The Meyer WFC technology basically consists of three parts: 1) VIC Electronic circuits, 2) VIC Coils, 3) Cell. The electronics drive the coils which are connected to the cell. To make it work you need all three components, i for example at the moment do not have a good replication of the coil set and that is giving me problems getting the pll part of the electronics to work since resonance is not in the range for which the electronics are designed. This is why Russ and the rest on this forum are working to replicate all three things.

Hope this clears some things up for you, sorry for not always replying as fast as people like but we are all 'busy bees' as you called it but i will always try to make the time for answering questions. In the end we need as much people building all to get the errors out faster, ... by the way, ... dumb questions do not exist, the only one is the one you did not ask!!!

Sharky
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on March 13th, 2012, 04:49 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 13th, 2012, 02:40 AM
Quote from Mechanic on March 12th, 2012, 03:43 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 12th, 2012, 01:07 AM
updated my measurements with 30AWG... looks golden!!! see attached sheet on that post... thanks!

`Russ

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580(http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580)
Hi Mr. Bussy Bee.

Do you have this in english....?:P Idon't understand a word can you make that more simple if posible... or give sch... or specs?:huh: Before you explain..., please help With my Questions earlier up in the post... 5v & 10v connect... and is this coils driving the circuits & cell...?:D

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB. I finished building the VIC work in prog.... schematics. Need to know about the small sch... on the first page of the pdf of this circuits as well...?
Hi Mechanic,
The first page of the pdf shows the main schematic that contains all the sub-schematics as they were created by Meyer and how they are interconnected. They also contain things needed in all sub schematics like the power connections. Currently the design makes use of +5V and +10V which are created from a +12V car battery via the 7805 and 7810 voltage regulators on that first page. If in the rest of the schematics there is a +5V connection, connect it to the 7805 voltage regulator and if there is a +10V connection connect it to the 7810 voltage regulator, thats all there is to it.

The Meyer WFC technology basically consists of three parts: 1) VIC Electronic circuits, 2) VIC Coils, 3) Cell. The electronics drive the coils which are connected to the cell. To make it work you need all three components, i for example at the moment do not have a good replication of the coil set and that is giving me problems getting the pll part of the electronics to work since resonance is not in the range for which the electronics are designed. This is why Russ and the rest on this forum are working to replicate all three things.

Hope this clears some things up for you, sorry for not always replying as fast as people like but we are all 'busy bees' as you called it but i will always try to make the time for answering questions. In the end we need as much people building all to get the errors out faster, ... by the way, ... dumb questions do not exist, the only one is the one you did not ask!!!

Sharky
Hi Sarky,:D

I can't tell you how much that reply ment to me...:heart: Before i get to mushy and cry let me thank you for the latest updete.... This has made you a pshycic(sorry) and gives me the last answers on the vic build (i hope).... Anyway, as i finish that part i'll try to take some messurements and post... About the coils, i was thinking of using a flourecent light ballaster, and knowing we need 50kv with 0.5A try to calculate (ohoo) what the transformer coil's spec should be or most probable ask someones help to do so...:P I think i'll be able to get a 50kv & 0.5A supply in such a way...?:huh: Well Sharky, thanx again, reply soon...:cool:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 13th, 2012, 09:54 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 13th, 2012, 04:49 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 13th, 2012, 02:40 AM
Quote from Mechanic on March 12th, 2012, 03:43 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 12th, 2012, 01:07 AM
updated my measurements with 30AWG... looks golden!!! see attached sheet on that post... thanks!

`Russ

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580(http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580)
Hi Mr. Bussy Bee.

Do you have this in english....?:P Idon't understand a word can you make that more simple if posible... or give sch... or specs?:huh: Before you explain..., please help With my Questions earlier up in the post... 5v & 10v connect... and is this coils driving the circuits & cell...?:D

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB. I finished building the VIC work in prog.... schematics. Need to know about the small sch... on the first page of the pdf of this circuits as well...?
Hi Mechanic,
The first page of the pdf shows the main schematic that contains all the sub-schematics as they were created by Meyer and how they are interconnected. They also contain things needed in all sub schematics like the power connections. Currently the design makes use of +5V and +10V which are created from a +12V car battery via the 7805 and 7810 voltage regulators on that first page. If in the rest of the schematics there is a +5V connection, connect it to the 7805 voltage regulator and if there is a +10V connection connect it to the 7810 voltage regulator, thats all there is to it.

The Meyer WFC technology basically consists of three parts: 1) VIC Electronic circuits, 2) VIC Coils, 3) Cell. The electronics drive the coils which are connected to the cell. To make it work you need all three components, i for example at the moment do not have a good replication of the coil set and that is giving me problems getting the pll part of the electronics to work since resonance is not in the range for which the electronics are designed. This is why Russ and the rest on this forum are working to replicate all three things.

Hope this clears some things up for you, sorry for not always replying as fast as people like but we are all 'busy bees' as you called it but i will always try to make the time for answering questions. In the end we need as much people building all to get the errors out faster, ... by the way, ... dumb questions do not exist, the only one is the one you did not ask!!!

Sharky
Hi Sarky,:D

I can't tell you how much that reply ment to me...:heart: Before i get to mushy and cry let me thank you for the latest updete.... This has made you a pshycic(sorry) and gives me the last answers on the vic build (i hope).... Anyway, as i finish that part i'll try to take some messurements and post... About the coils, i was thinking of using a flourecent light ballaster, and knowing we need 50kv with 0.5A try to calculate (ohoo) what the transformer coil's spec should be or most probable ask someones help to do so...:P I think i'll be able to get a 50kv & 0.5A supply in such a way...?:huh: Well Sharky, thanx again, reply soon...:cool:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
STAN,
Quote
you got to ask the right questions.
i have been over whelmed also and trying to answer questions as i can... i also must say that there is so much info to cover its hard to not spend 30 min on a reply... :)

any way!

i revived my electronics today and a new set of jumpers i got off amazon for dirt cheep.

i hope i will get to this this week...

sharky, still working on your coil set... want to test some other stuff to see if i can get even closer to the measurements...  

thanks everyone!!! team work!

~Russ
[attachment=970]
[attachment=971]
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 14th, 2012, 05:21 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 13th, 2012, 09:54 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 13th, 2012, 04:49 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 13th, 2012, 02:40 AM
Quote from Mechanic on March 12th, 2012, 03:43 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 12th, 2012, 01:07 AM
updated my measurements with 30AWG... looks golden!!! see attached sheet on that post... thanks!

`Russ

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580(http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580)
Hi Mr. Bussy Bee.

Do you have this in english....?:P Idon't understand a word can you make that more simple if posible... or give sch... or specs?:huh: Before you explain..., please help With my Questions earlier up in the post... 5v & 10v connect... and is this coils driving the circuits & cell...?:D

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB. I finished building the VIC work in prog.... schematics. Need to know about the small sch... on the first page of the pdf of this circuits as well...?
Hi Mechanic,
The first page of the pdf shows the main schematic that contains all the sub-schematics as they were created by Meyer and how they are interconnected. They also contain things needed in all sub schematics like the power connections. Currently the design makes use of +5V and +10V which are created from a +12V car battery via the 7805 and 7810 voltage regulators on that first page. If in the rest of the schematics there is a +5V connection, connect it to the 7805 voltage regulator and if there is a +10V connection connect it to the 7810 voltage regulator, thats all there is to it.

The Meyer WFC technology basically consists of three parts: 1) VIC Electronic circuits, 2) VIC Coils, 3) Cell. The electronics drive the coils which are connected to the cell. To make it work you need all three components, i for example at the moment do not have a good replication of the coil set and that is giving me problems getting the pll part of the electronics to work since resonance is not in the range for which the electronics are designed. This is why Russ and the rest on this forum are working to replicate all three things.

Hope this clears some things up for you, sorry for not always replying as fast as people like but we are all 'busy bees' as you called it but i will always try to make the time for answering questions. In the end we need as much people building all to get the errors out faster, ... by the way, ... dumb questions do not exist, the only one is the one you did not ask!!!

Sharky
Hi Sarky,:D

I can't tell you how much that reply ment to me...:heart: Before i get to mushy and cry let me thank you for the latest updete.... This has made you a pshycic(sorry) and gives me the last answers on the vic build (i hope).... Anyway, as i finish that part i'll try to take some messurements and post... About the coils, i was thinking of using a flourecent light ballaster, and knowing we need 50kv with 0.5A try to calculate (ohoo) what the transformer coil's spec should be or most probable ask someones help to do so...:P I think i'll be able to get a 50kv & 0.5A supply in such a way...?:huh: Well Sharky, thanx again, reply soon...:cool:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
STAN,
Quote
you got to ask the right questions.
i have been over whelmed also and trying to answer questions as i can... i also must say that there is so much info to cover its hard to not spend 30 min on a reply... :)

any way!

i revived my electronics today and a new set of jumpers i got off amazon for dirt cheep.

i hope i will get to this this week...

sharky, still working on your coil set... want to test some other stuff to see if i can get even closer to the measurements...  

thanks everyone!!! team work!

~Russ
Russ I like those jumpers much better than the ridged non flexible type, looks like they will be much easier to use.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 15th, 2012, 04:24 AM
[/quote]Russ I like those jumpers much better than the ridged non flexible type, looks like they will be much easier to use.[/quote]yes, i just started to work on this today and i must say the jumpers are nice!!! but!!! you still will want to have some small jumpers of the normal type so you can make all the power conetions and small jumps... otherwise you will have a ling jumper to go one hole... lol it couls get a bit messey that way...

any way here is what i have so far... building one piece at a time so i can check it...

I think I can get it all on this board.

[attachment=979]
[attachment=980]
the first 2 photos are of this VIC circuit... the last one is all the stuff i had on the board when i started... lol that was a rustic 7.0 prototype... :)


[attachment=981]
~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 15th, 2012, 05:37 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 15th, 2012, 04:24 AM
Russ I like those jumpers much better than the ridged non flexible type, looks like they will be much easier to use.[/quote]yes, i just started to work on this today and i must say the jumpers are nice!!! but!!! you still will want to have some small jumpers of the normal type so you can make all the power conetions and small jumps... otherwise you will have a ling jumper to go one hole... lol it couls get a bit messey that way...

any way here is what i have so far... building one piece at a time so i can check it...

I think I can get it all on this board.



the first 2 photos are of this VIC circuit... the last one is all the stuff i had on the board when i started... lol that was a rustic 7.0 prototype... :)



~Russ[/quote]See what you mean about the wires, very cool though, I wish I had the time right now to get started on mine.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 15th, 2012, 09:13 AM
I updated the project and PDF to the latest version. Be aware that i needed to re-anotate the entire schematic so most of the component references changed.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 15th, 2012, 11:19 AM
Quote from Sharky on March 15th, 2012, 09:13 AM
I updated the project and PDF to the latest version. Be aware that i needed to re-anotate the entire schematic so most of the component references changed.
So wheres the PDF @ Sharky? Need to download it, thanks.:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 11:52 AM
quote='Sharky' pid='3634' dateline='1331828007']
I updated the project and PDF to the latest version. Be aware that i needed to re-anotate the entire schematic so most of the component references changed.[/quote]Hi SHARKY.:s

Am i correct if i say the BC546B, 556B. Tip 120 & 2N3055's Leg numbers & leg names is confused.... or am i confused... ? Will this make a diffrence to your testing....? I'm still doing these last changes and then will be able to start testing.:huh: Don't know why i didn't notice it before... probably doesn't matter.
[attachment=983]
[attachment=986]
attachment=985][
[attachment=984][
:P
This is what i needed to figure out what leg is what and then noticed the prob... or not...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB: Forgot to ask... the volt... ampl... positive connection is it 12, 10, 5 volts...?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 15th, 2012, 01:41 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 11:52 AM
Hi SHARKY.:s

Am i correct if i say the BC546B, 556B. Tip 120 & 2N3055's Leg numbers & leg names is confused.... or am i confused... ? Will this make a diffrence to your testing....? I'm still doing these last changes and then will be able to start testing.:huh: Don't know why i didn't notice it before... probably doesn't matter.


attachment=985][
[
:P
This is what i needed to figure out what leg is what and then noticed the prob... or not...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB: Forgot to ask... the volt... ampl... positive connection is it 12, 10, 5 volts...?
Yes you are confused but very understandable, ... i was confused at first as well ;). You must look at the schematics with the pcb alongside it. In kicad you map all schematic components to modules which are the definitions of the actual casings, etc. The pin numbers in the schematic are not necesarry the same as the module pin numbers you see in the datasheets. If you look at the pcb (see attachment) you see that the pin numbers for the tip120 (Q1) are in the order 2, 3, 1 which you can lookup in the schematic and you will see that they correspond to the actual datasheet pins for base, collector, emitter.

So yes it is kind of non logical but in the end on the pcb it is correct. What do you mean by voltage of positive connection? The +batt is 12V which goes to the 7810 and 7805 which create the +10V and +5V.

Good luck!

PS: the PDF and kicad files are always updated on the first post
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 15th, 2012, 01:41 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 11:52 AM
Hi SHARKY.:s

Am i correct if i say the BC546B, 556B. Tip 120 & 2N3055's Leg numbers & leg names is confused.... or am i confused... ? Will this make a diffrence to your testing....? I'm still doing these last changes and then will be able to start testing.:huh: Don't know why i didn't notice it before... probably doesn't matter.


attachment=985][
[
:P
This is what i needed to figure out what leg is what and then noticed the prob... or not...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB: Forgot to ask... the volt... ampl... positive connection is it 12, 10, 5 volts...?
Yes you are confused but very understandable, ... i was confused at first as well ;). You must look at the schematics with the pcb alongside it. In kicad you map all schematic components to modules which are the definitions of the actual casings, etc. The pin numbers in the schematic are not necesarry the same as the module pin numbers you see in the datasheets. If you look at the pcb (see attachment) you see that the pin numbers for the tip120 (Q1) are in the order 2, 3, 1 which you can lookup in the schematic and you will see that they correspond to the actual datasheet pins for base, collector, emitter.

So yes it is kind of non logical but in the end on the pcb it is correct. What do you mean by voltage of positive connection? The +batt is 12V which goes to the 7810 and 7805 which create the +10V and +5V.

Good luck!

PS: the PDF and kicad files are always updated on the first post
The voltage amplitude schematic's positive connection, in the pdf, is not marked 12v, 10v or 5v....
If i connected the legs of the before mentioned components according to the numbers in the pdf,  will it then be wrong....? Eishhh.... do i have to reconnect according to the B, E, C, markings... as in my attachedments?

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 15th, 2012, 03:07 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 15th, 2012, 01:41 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 11:52 AM
Hi SHARKY.:s

Am i correct if i say the BC546B, 556B. Tip 120 & 2N3055's Leg numbers & leg names is confused.... or am i confused... ? Will this make a diffrence to your testing....? I'm still doing these last changes and then will be able to start testing.:huh: Don't know why i didn't notice it before... probably doesn't matter.


attachment=985][
[
:P
This is what i needed to figure out what leg is what and then noticed the prob... or not...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB: Forgot to ask... the volt... ampl... positive connection is it 12, 10, 5 volts...?
Yes you are confused but very understandable, ... i was confused at first as well ;). You must look at the schematics with the pcb alongside it. In kicad you map all schematic components to modules which are the definitions of the actual casings, etc. The pin numbers in the schematic are not necesarry the same as the module pin numbers you see in the datasheets. If you look at the pcb (see attachment) you see that the pin numbers for the tip120 (Q1) are in the order 2, 3, 1 which you can lookup in the schematic and you will see that they correspond to the actual datasheet pins for base, collector, emitter.

So yes it is kind of non logical but in the end on the pcb it is correct. What do you mean by voltage of positive connection? The +batt is 12V which goes to the 7810 and 7805 which create the +10V and +5V.

Good luck!

PS: the PDF and kicad files are always updated on the first post
The voltage amplitude schematic's positive connection, in the pdf, is not marked 12v, 10v or 5v....
If i connected the legs of the before mentioned components according to the numbers in the pdf,  will it then be wrong....? Eishhh.... do i have to reconnect according to the B, E, C, markings... as in my attachedments?

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Mechanic, look at the blue lines in the attachment file Sharky posted, I think the two blue lines closest together represent the metal back of the tip120 and that's the way it should be soldered in, is this correct Sharky.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 15th, 2012, 03:38 PM
Jeff you are right! It is confusing but when you solder in the modules all is correct as it should be.

Mechanic, the PWR is a label to connect the voltage amplitude control sub circuit to the cell driver circuit. Power on the voltage amplitude control is indicated as +BATT which needs to be connected to a 12V battery.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 03:41 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 15th, 2012, 03:07 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 15th, 2012, 01:41 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 11:52 AM
Hi SHARKY.:s

Am i correct if i say the BC546B, 556B. Tip 120 & 2N3055's Leg numbers & leg names is confused.... or am i confused... ? Will this make a diffrence to your testing....? I'm still doing these last changes and then will be able to start testing.:huh: Don't know why i didn't notice it before... probably doesn't matter.


attachment=985][
[
:P
This is what i needed to figure out what leg is what and then noticed the prob... or not...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB: Forgot to ask... the volt... ampl... positive connection is it 12, 10, 5 volts...?
Yes you are confused but very understandable, ... i was confused at first as well ;). You must look at the schematics with the pcb alongside it. In kicad you map all schematic components to modules which are the definitions of the actual casings, etc. The pin numbers in the schematic are not necesarry the same as the module pin numbers you see in the datasheets. If you look at the pcb (see attachment) you see that the pin numbers for the tip120 (Q1) are in the order 2, 3, 1 which you can lookup in the schematic and you will see that they correspond to the actual datasheet pins for base, collector, emitter.

So yes it is kind of non logical but in the end on the pcb it is correct. What do you mean by voltage of positive connection? The +batt is 12V which goes to the 7810 and 7805 which create the +10V and +5V.

Good luck!

PS: the PDF and kicad files are always updated on the first post
The voltage amplitude schematic's positive connection, in the pdf, is not marked 12v, 10v or 5v....
If i connected the legs of the before mentioned components according to the numbers in the pdf,  will it then be wrong....? Eishhh.... do i have to reconnect according to the B, E, C, markings... as in my attachedments?

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Mechanic, look at the blue lines in the attachment file Sharky posted, I think the two blue lines closest together represent the metal back of the tip120 and that's the way it should be soldered in, is this correct Sharky.
I'm changing your'e name, "life boat" thanx uncle Jeff, thanx Sharky... I'll know continue my soldering 'lessons'... 0h45 am ...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 15th, 2012, 04:08 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 03:41 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 15th, 2012, 03:07 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 15th, 2012, 01:41 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 11:52 AM
Hi SHARKY.:s

Am i correct if i say the BC546B, 556B. Tip 120 & 2N3055's Leg numbers & leg names is confused.... or am i confused... ? Will this make a diffrence to your testing....? I'm still doing these last changes and then will be able to start testing.:huh: Don't know why i didn't notice it before... probably doesn't matter.


attachment=985][
[
:P
This is what i needed to figure out what leg is what and then noticed the prob... or not...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB: Forgot to ask... the volt... ampl... positive connection is it 12, 10, 5 volts...?
Yes you are confused but very understandable, ... i was confused at first as well ;). You must look at the schematics with the pcb alongside it. In kicad you map all schematic components to modules which are the definitions of the actual casings, etc. The pin numbers in the schematic are not necesarry the same as the module pin numbers you see in the datasheets. If you look at the pcb (see attachment) you see that the pin numbers for the tip120 (Q1) are in the order 2, 3, 1 which you can lookup in the schematic and you will see that they correspond to the actual datasheet pins for base, collector, emitter.

So yes it is kind of non logical but in the end on the pcb it is correct. What do you mean by voltage of positive connection? The +batt is 12V which goes to the 7810 and 7805 which create the +10V and +5V.

Good luck!

PS: the PDF and kicad files are always updated on the first post
The voltage amplitude schematic's positive connection, in the pdf, is not marked 12v, 10v or 5v....
If i connected the legs of the before mentioned components according to the numbers in the pdf,  will it then be wrong....? Eishhh.... do i have to reconnect according to the B, E, C, markings... as in my attachedments?

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Mechanic, look at the blue lines in the attachment file Sharky posted, I think the two blue lines closest together represent the metal back of the tip120 and that's the way it should be soldered in, is this correct Sharky.
I'm changing your'e name, "life boat" thanx uncle Jeff, thanx Sharky... I'll know continue my soldering 'lessons'... 0h45 am ...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Your welcome Mechanic, and thanks Sharky.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 16th, 2012, 03:16 AM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 03:41 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 15th, 2012, 03:07 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 15th, 2012, 01:41 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 11:52 AM
Hi SHARKY.:s

Am i correct if i say the BC546B, 556B. Tip 120 & 2N3055's Leg numbers & leg names is confused.... or am i confused... ? Will this make a diffrence to your testing....? I'm still doing these last changes and then will be able to start testing.:huh: Don't know why i didn't notice it before... probably doesn't matter.


attachment=985][
[
:P
This is what i needed to figure out what leg is what and then noticed the prob... or not...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
NB: Forgot to ask... the volt... ampl... positive connection is it 12, 10, 5 volts...?
Yes you are confused but very understandable, ... i was confused at first as well ;). You must look at the schematics with the pcb alongside it. In kicad you map all schematic components to modules which are the definitions of the actual casings, etc. The pin numbers in the schematic are not necesarry the same as the module pin numbers you see in the datasheets. If you look at the pcb (see attachment) you see that the pin numbers for the tip120 (Q1) are in the order 2, 3, 1 which you can lookup in the schematic and you will see that they correspond to the actual datasheet pins for base, collector, emitter.

So yes it is kind of non logical but in the end on the pcb it is correct. What do you mean by voltage of positive connection? The +batt is 12V which goes to the 7810 and 7805 which create the +10V and +5V.

Good luck!

PS: the PDF and kicad files are always updated on the first post
The voltage amplitude schematic's positive connection, in the pdf, is not marked 12v, 10v or 5v....
If i connected the legs of the before mentioned components according to the numbers in the pdf,  will it then be wrong....? Eishhh.... do i have to reconnect according to the B, E, C, markings... as in my attachedments?

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Mechanic, look at the blue lines in the attachment file Sharky posted, I think the two blue lines closest together represent the metal back of the tip120 and that's the way it should be soldered in, is this correct Sharky.
I'm changing your'e name, "life boat" thanx uncle Jeff, thanx Sharky... I'll know continue my soldering 'lessons'... 0h45 am ...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
yes, the schematic is not labeled correct for the TIP120... i just spent the last hr finding that out :) lol

here is some update photos...

i got it all on the board and lots of room to spare... only missing the Voltage amplitude circuit...

but scanning works but no lock in. i think this due to my gated frequency gen not working. I'm not getting my gated pulse train... its just a mess out of the gated pulse circuit... not sure what is wrong, but i will be checking the  original circuits to see what is wrong...
[attachment=995][attachment=996]
yeah! ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: securesupplies on March 18th, 2012, 01:01 AM
Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 06:05 AM
Several people already have build their VIC circuits based on pictures and the schematics from WO9207861. If we want to replicate Meyers work and get the cell to work we need the complete schematics. Since 'they' only sell their complete VIC schematics and do not give the full design for free its time to work it out completely and offer it for FREE (yes i share the thoughts of Russ that this will only work if all is available for free).

Haxar already did some fine work in tracing the VIC card. I now started to completely design the entire VIC with KICAD. I choose this toolset because it is available on Linux/Windows, it is open-source, reasonable easy to learn, it supports nested schematics, it comes with a good autorouter function and has the abillity to generate gerber files for pcb manufacturing. Anyway, ... if you do not like KICAD it is your problem :P, else download it at http://kicad.sourceforge.net. I used KiCad-2011-12-28-BZR3254-stable-Win_full_with_components_doc_install.exe from http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/cao/ . If you download the snapshots the libraries will not get installed. Download the project zip file and use the unarchive option in the KiCad main menu to load it.

Complete:
- variable pulse generator
- gated pulse generator
- phase lock loop circuit
- pulse indicator circuit
- resonant scanning circuit
- Voltage Amplitude Control
- cell driver circuit

Schematics build on prototype board and verified:
- variable pulse generator
- gated pulse generator
- phase lock loop circuit
- pulse indicator circuit
- resonant scanning circuit
- Voltage Amplitude Control
- cell driver circuit

PCB:
- Components to modules complete for current schematic
- Best not to make the PCB yet, need to verify the circuits first and there are still changes to be made.

Latest KiCad project file date: 13 march 2012

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky

nice work very nice

it would really help alot if you could post jpg or gif images
of these to please.
.

I also invite you to help edit these with latest know how pic or specs please.

Stan Meyers  Vic circuit rebuild guide(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SiPuaX_kvldohC_BSPG9Q8TLQQ1sa8AQby5PdsKd0kk/edit)

Stan Meyers Vic style 1 Rebuild guide(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TdptRU-E0YzNPhp5q-DpS2DUB9tk8pnbkcf8kl1RDlg/edit)

Stan Meyers Vic style 2 Rebuilder rguide(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PUbnIC9T4fFCtiWzO80ulQ7TnptSzliGQcu8V3DHzOo/edit)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: securesupplies on March 18th, 2012, 01:03 AM
Hi Sharky

nice work very nice

it would really help alot if you could post jpg or gif images
of these to please.
.

I also invite you to help edit these with latest know how pic or specs please.

Stan Meyers  Vic circuit rebuild guide(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SiPuaX_kvldohC_BSPG9Q8TLQQ1sa8AQby5PdsKd0kk/edit)

Stan Meyers Vic style 1 Rebuild guide(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TdptRU-E0YzNPhp5q-DpS2DUB9tk8pnbkcf8kl1RDlg/edit)

Stan Meyers Vic style 2 Rebuilder rguide(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PUbnIC9T4fFCtiWzO80ulQ7TnptSzliGQcu8V3DHzOo/edit)
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 16th, 2012, 03:16 AM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 03:41 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 15th, 2012, 03:07 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 15th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 15th, 2012, 01:41 PM
Yes you are confused but very understandable, ... i was confused at first as well ;). You must look at the schematics with the pcb alongside it. In kicad you map all schematic components to modules which are the definitions of the actual casings, etc. The pin numbers in the schematic are not necesarry the same as the module pin numbers you see in the datasheets. If you look at the pcb (see attachment) you see that the pin numbers for the tip120 (Q1) are in the order 2, 3, 1 which you can lookup in the schematic and you will see that they correspond to the actual datasheet pins for base, collector, emitter.

So yes it is kind of non logical but in the end on the pcb it is correct. What do you mean by voltage of positive connection? The +batt is 12V which goes to the 7810 and 7805 which create the +10V and +5V.

Good luck!

PS: the PDF and kicad files are always updated on the first post
The voltage amplitude schematic's positive connection, in the pdf, is not marked 12v, 10v or 5v....
If i connected the legs of the before mentioned components according to the numbers in the pdf,  will it then be wrong....? Eishhh.... do i have to reconnect according to the B, E, C, markings... as in my attachedments?

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Mechanic, look at the blue lines in the attachment file Sharky posted, I think the two blue lines closest together represent the metal back of the tip120 and that's the way it should be soldered in, is this correct Sharky.
I'm changing your'e name, "life boat" thanx uncle Jeff, thanx Sharky... I'll know continue my soldering 'lessons'... 0h45 am ...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
yes, the schematic is not labeled correct for the TIP120... i just spent the last hr finding that out :) lol

here is some update photos...

i got it all on the board and lots of room to spare... only missing the Voltage amplitude circuit...

but scanning works but no lock in. i think this due to my gated frequency gen not working. I'm not getting my gated pulse train... its just a mess out of the gated pulse circuit... not sure what is wrong, but i will be checking the  original circuits to see what is wrong...

yeah! ~Russ
Hi Russ

Great work!



Stan Meyers  Vic circuit rebuild guide(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SiPuaX_kvldohC_BSPG9Q8TLQQ1sa8AQby5PdsKd0kk/edit)

Stan Meyers Vic style 1 Rebuild guide(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TdptRU-E0YzNPhp5q-DpS2DUB9tk8pnbkcf8kl1RDlg/edit)




Stan Meyers Vic style 2 Rebuilder rguide(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PUbnIC9T4fFCtiWzO80ulQ7TnptSzliGQcu8V3DHzOo/edit)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 22nd, 2012, 12:03 PM
It looks like the "voltage amplitude control" circuit is working as Stan described it in the tech brief.

"Variable voltage range (32a xxx 32n) from one(1) up to twelve (12) volts"

Voltage can be adjusted with external pulse frequency duty cycle control. 1% to 99% translated to analog voltage amplitude 1V to 12V.
Minimal voltage offset and gain adjustable going into the cell driver circuit that drives the VIC primary coil.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 23rd, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 22nd, 2012, 12:03 PM
It looks like the "voltage amplitude control" circuit is working as Stan described it in the tech brief.

"Variable voltage range (32a xxx 32n) from one(1) up to twelve (12) volts"

Voltage can be adjusted with external pulse frequency duty cycle control. 1% to 99% translated to analog voltage amplitude 1V to 12V.
Minimal voltage offset and gain adjustable going into the cell driver circuit that drives the VIC primary coil.

Br,
Webmug
Webmug, are you using what we have in the schematics posted? if not could you please post the schematic your using. i know your pulsing it from 1-99% so i believe your using the circuit in the patents.

thanks!

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 23rd, 2012, 04:10 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 23rd, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 22nd, 2012, 12:03 PM
It looks like the "voltage amplitude control" circuit is working as Stan described it in the tech brief.

"Variable voltage range (32a xxx 32n) from one(1) up to twelve (12) volts"

Voltage can be adjusted with external pulse frequency duty cycle control. 1% to 99% translated to analog voltage amplitude 1V to 12V.
Minimal voltage offset and gain adjustable going into the cell driver circuit that drives the VIC primary coil.

Br,
Webmug
Webmug, are you using what we have in the schematics posted? if not could you please post the schematic your using. i know your pulsing it from 1-99% so i believe your using the circuit in the patents.

thanks!

~Russ
Russ,

I have (re)build the circuit from the patent WO 92/07861 Fig 4 "Voltage amplitude control"

I pulse the input "J analog voltage" with 0 to + 5V on a fix pulse frequency.
Then duty cycle is adjusted 1% to 99% with my pulser on that pulse frequency to regulate the voltage amplitude going to TX1 (primary input)
 
Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 24th, 2012, 01:19 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 23rd, 2012, 04:10 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 23rd, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 22nd, 2012, 12:03 PM
It looks like the "voltage amplitude control" circuit is working as Stan described it in the tech brief.

"Variable voltage range (32a xxx 32n) from one(1) up to twelve (12) volts"

Voltage can be adjusted with external pulse frequency duty cycle control. 1% to 99% translated to analog voltage amplitude 1V to 12V.
Minimal voltage offset and gain adjustable going into the cell driver circuit that drives the VIC primary coil.

Br,
Webmug
Webmug, are you using what we have in the schematics posted? if not could you please post the schematic your using. i know your pulsing it from 1-99% so i believe your using the circuit in the patents.

thanks!

~Russ
Russ,

I have (re)build the circuit from the patent WO 92/07861 Fig 4 "Voltage amplitude control"

I pulse the input "J analog voltage" with 0 to + 5V on a fix pulse frequency.
Then duty cycle is adjusted 1% to 99% with my pulser on that pulse frequency to regulate the voltage amplitude going to TX1 (primary input)
 
Br,
Webmug
ok, that's what i thought, thanks!

also, are you building all the PLL circuitry also?

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 24th, 2012, 07:32 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 24th, 2012, 01:19 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 23rd, 2012, 04:10 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 23rd, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 22nd, 2012, 12:03 PM
It looks like the "voltage amplitude control" circuit is working as Stan described it in the tech brief.

"Variable voltage range (32a xxx 32n) from one(1) up to twelve (12) volts"

Voltage can be adjusted with external pulse frequency duty cycle control. 1% to 99% translated to analog voltage amplitude 1V to 12V.
Minimal voltage offset and gain adjustable going into the cell driver circuit that drives the VIC primary coil.

Br,
Webmug
Webmug, are you using what we have in the schematics posted? if not could you please post the schematic your using. i know your pulsing it from 1-99% so i believe your using the circuit in the patents.

thanks!

~Russ
Russ,

I have (re)build the circuit from the patent WO 92/07861 Fig 4 "Voltage amplitude control"

I pulse the input "J analog voltage" with 0 to + 5V on a fix pulse frequency.
Then duty cycle is adjusted 1% to 99% with my pulser on that pulse frequency to regulate the voltage amplitude going to TX1 (primary input)
 
Br,
Webmug
ok, that's what i thought, thanks!

also, are you building all the PLL circuitry also?

~Russ
I have all the circuits needed for the resonance wfc!

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 24th, 2012, 08:18 PM
Quote from Webmug on March 24th, 2012, 07:32 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 24th, 2012, 01:19 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 23rd, 2012, 04:10 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 23rd, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 22nd, 2012, 12:03 PM
It looks like the "voltage amplitude control" circuit is working as Stan described it in the tech brief.

"Variable voltage range (32a xxx 32n) from one(1) up to twelve (12) volts"

Voltage can be adjusted with external pulse frequency duty cycle control. 1% to 99% translated to analog voltage amplitude 1V to 12V.
Minimal voltage offset and gain adjustable going into the cell driver circuit that drives the VIC primary coil.

Br,
Webmug
Webmug, are you using what we have in the schematics posted? if not could you please post the schematic your using. i know your pulsing it from 1-99% so i believe your using the circuit in the patents.

thanks!

~Russ
Russ,

I have (re)build the circuit from the patent WO 92/07861 Fig 4 "Voltage amplitude control"

I pulse the input "J analog voltage" with 0 to + 5V on a fix pulse frequency.
Then duty cycle is adjusted 1% to 99% with my pulser on that pulse frequency to regulate the voltage amplitude going to TX1 (primary input)
 
Br,
Webmug
ok, that's what i thought, thanks!

also, are you building all the PLL circuitry also?

~Russ
I have all the circuits needed for the resonance wfc!

Br,
Webmug
ok, so your still working on putting all together? just asking as it would be good to have even more testing and trouble shooting... as i know you are. are you going off the schematics sharky/me are working on or re-tracing Stan's circuits?

thanks Webmug!

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 25th, 2012, 01:55 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 24th, 2012, 08:18 PM
Quote from Webmug on March 24th, 2012, 07:32 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 24th, 2012, 01:19 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 23rd, 2012, 04:10 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 23rd, 2012, 01:10 AM
Webmug, are you using what we have in the schematics posted? if not could you please post the schematic your using. i know your pulsing it from 1-99% so i believe your using the circuit in the patents.

thanks!

~Russ
Russ,

I have (re)build the circuit from the patent WO 92/07861 Fig 4 "Voltage amplitude control"

I pulse the input "J analog voltage" with 0 to + 5V on a fix pulse frequency.
Then duty cycle is adjusted 1% to 99% with my pulser on that pulse frequency to regulate the voltage amplitude going to TX1 (primary input)
 
Br,
Webmug
ok, that's what i thought, thanks!

also, are you building all the PLL circuitry also?

~Russ
I have all the circuits needed for the resonance wfc!

Br,
Webmug
ok, so your still working on putting all together? just asking as it would be good to have even more testing and trouble shooting... as i know you are. are you going off the schematics sharky/me are working on or re-tracing Stan's circuits?

thanks Webmug!

~Russ
My intentions are to follow the circuits from Stan, as close as possible, with the information provided by Dynodon.

As you know the circuit specs are matched to the VIC transformer and WFC, so it is difficult to see all the circuits working together with the correct parameters.

:rolleyes: The VIC transformer is the most difficult part!

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 25th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Quote from Webmug on March 25th, 2012, 01:55 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 24th, 2012, 08:18 PM
Quote from Webmug on March 24th, 2012, 07:32 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 24th, 2012, 01:19 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 23rd, 2012, 04:10 AM
Russ,

I have (re)build the circuit from the patent WO 92/07861 Fig 4 "Voltage amplitude control"

I pulse the input "J analog voltage" with 0 to + 5V on a fix pulse frequency.
Then duty cycle is adjusted 1% to 99% with my pulser on that pulse frequency to regulate the voltage amplitude going to TX1 (primary input)
 
Br,
Webmug
ok, that's what i thought, thanks!

also, are you building all the PLL circuitry also?

~Russ
I have all the circuits needed for the resonance wfc!

Br,
Webmug
ok, so your still working on putting all together? just asking as it would be good to have even more testing and trouble shooting... as i know you are. are you going off the schematics sharky/me are working on or re-tracing Stan's circuits?

thanks Webmug!

~Russ
My intentions are to follow the circuits from Stan, as close as possible, with the information provided by Dynodon.

As you know the circuit specs are matched to the VIC transformer and WFC, so it is difficult to see all the circuits working together with the correct parameters.

:rolleyes: The VIC transformer is the most difficult part!

Br,
Webmug
ok, thats what i thought, and you will also be posting all schematic once your happy with the schematic? or are you posting a step by step prosses as you get each part done?

as you know me ans sharky are doing the same but it would be good to all be on the same page of the testing/building to varafy each part... and also, once we have the cores this will make it better. still working out the details over at the VIC thread.

thanks Webmug, Best!!

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 26th, 2012, 05:07 AM
As Russ and i had trouble getting the 4046 to lock in i decided to go a step back to the basics. How does the 4046 lock on and what influence do the components have on its behaviour? I build a very simple circuit to show and test that (got my new GW-INSTEK GDS-1102A, 100MHz digital scope in, ... indeed a very nice piece of equipment for that price (about 650 euros). The signal that normally comes from the feedback coil is now generated by a 555 timer. Besides the 4046 there is also the lock-indicator circuit. See the youtube video to see its workings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ZbPe4QMxE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Next step is to replace the scan and hold network by the Meyer Resonant Scanning circuit and have it behave the same. Then the next step will be replacing the 555 pulse signal by the real feedback signal from the Pulse Indicator circuit. The last step will be reconnecting the gating signal.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 26th, 2012, 06:56 AM
Quote from Sharky on March 26th, 2012, 05:07 AM
As Russ and i had trouble getting the 4046 to lock in i decided to go a step back to the basics. How does the 4046 lock on and what influence do the components have on its behaviour? I build a very simple circuit to show and test that (got my new GW-INSTEK GDS-1102A, 100MHz digital scope in, ... indeed a very nice piece of equipment for that price (about 650 euros). The signal that normally comes from the feedback coil is now generated by a 555 timer. Besides the 4046 there is also the lock-indicator circuit. See the youtube video to see its workings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ZbPe4QMxE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Next step is to replace the scan and hold network by the Meyer Resonant Scanning circuit and have it behave the same. Then the next step will be replacing the 555 pulse signal by the real feedback signal from the Pulse Indicator circuit. The last step will be reconnecting the gating signal.
Nice!!! I can see how mine keeps going crazy! Lol! The other circuit that is... Strange thing is that the feed back signal is allways pulsing the circuit... So one would think there would only be a lockin when the pulses got high. As if it was a t resonance. Any way, good work!!! Thanks for the video and information! We got to learn the system from the ground up!

As far as the gating, it looked as if the second gating chip was for the duty cycle of the frequncy gen??? I'm I looking at this correctly?
 
Also, don't know what hapen but I fixed the video link. It was busted... ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 26th, 2012, 07:38 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 26th, 2012, 06:56 AM
As far as the gating, it looked as if the second gating chip was for the duty cycle of the frequncy gen??? I'm I looking at this correctly?
If you mean the 74122  then you are right that its purpose is to adjust the duty cycle of the gating frequency.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 26th, 2012, 08:20 AM
Quote from Sharky on March 26th, 2012, 07:38 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 26th, 2012, 06:56 AM
As far as the gating, it looked as if the second gating chip was for the duty cycle of the frequncy gen??? I'm I looking at this correctly?
If you mean the 74122  then you are right that its purpose is to adjust the duty cycle of the gating frequency.
OK, then those seem to work good now that we have the right cap in place! :)

 ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 26th, 2012, 08:27 AM
Also. I think i want to redue the adjustable power schmatic. It will get more complacated but that's ok. I don't like the way it is now.

Webmug,

Can you post your schmatic of what you have done with this part of the schmatic.

I know your using a sig gen to get the duty cycle but we will use a 555 timer or somthing in the final set...

Thanks all! ~Russ

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 26th, 2012, 10:12 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 26th, 2012, 08:27 AM
Also. I think i want to redue the adjustable power schmatic. It will get more complacated but that's ok. I don't like the way it is now.

Webmug,

Can you post your schmatic of what you have done with this part of the schmatic.

I know your using a sig gen to get the duty cycle but we will use a 555 timer or somthing in the final set...

Thanks all! ~Russ
Yes, you can do this also. Takes a couple of more components. :) It works in combination with the "cell driver circuit".

The input J should have a adjustable duty cycle DU pulse 0 to 5V and frequency about 1kHz. This 1 to 99% DU controls the voltage amplitude.
You can do this with a 555 timer instead of a signal generator.

Offset is the min. voltage amplitude on the primary coil and gain the time it takes to go to max voltage amplitude, when you set it to 1%

This voltage amplitude control has a useful function, because it adjust the voltage "analog" and not in increment steps what disturbs the voltage.

I have problems keeping the DU signal 50% from the "cell driver circuit" when the PLL adjust frequency (scanner). 31 to 42% This is very important because this 50% gives us perfect resonance and is picked-up at the pickup- coil where the PLL locks-on.

I tested the pickup circuit with a AC signal from my signal generator going into the pickup circuit. I have pulse from the opamp in phase with the AC voltage, but it has a lot of noise in/on it. The lock-on circuit response on this is not good!:huh:

In my video you can see the scanner active (yellow) and the pickup pulse(blue) from the AC voltage from signal generator at 2kHz.

I want the PLL to lock-on the AC voltage. (pickup coil simulation)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRYf8nZ2Qt8

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 26th, 2012, 11:28 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 26th, 2012, 10:12 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 26th, 2012, 08:27 AM
Also. I think i want to redue the adjustable power schmatic. It will get more complacated but that's ok. I don't like the way it is now.

Webmug,

Can you post your schmatic of what you have done with this part of the schmatic.

I know your using a sig gen to get the duty cycle but we will use a 555 timer or somthing in the final set...

Thanks all! ~Russ
Yes, you can do this also. Takes a couple of more components. :) It works in combination with the "cell driver circuit".

The input J should have a adjustable duty cycle DU pulse 0 to 5V and frequency about 1kHz. This 1 to 99% DU controls the voltage amplitude.
You can do this with a 555 timer instead of a signal generator.

Offset is the min. voltage amplitude on the primary coil and gain the time it takes to go to max voltage amplitude, when you set it to 1%

This voltage amplitude control has a useful function, because it adjust the voltage "analog" and not in increment steps what disturbs the voltage.

I have problems keeping the DU signal 50% from the "cell driver circuit" when the PLL adjust frequency (scanner). 31 to 42% This is very important because this 50% gives us perfect resonance and is picked-up at the pickup- coil where the PLL locks-on.

I tested the pickup circuit with a AC signal from my signal generator going into the pickup circuit. I have pulse from the opamp in phase with the AC voltage, but it has a lot of noise in/on it. The lock-on circuit response on this is not good!:huh:

In my video you can see the scanner active (yellow) and the pickup pulse(blue) from the AC voltage from signal generator at 2kHz.

I want the PLL to lock-on the AC voltage. (pickup coil simulation)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRYf8nZ2Qt8

Br,
Webmug
Good work, the feed back signail is a square wave. Not a sign wave, so try the square wave. Seems everyone has that sig gen! Lol I find that funny! It's a good one! But my Chanel one is out! Hope the warrantee is good...

Thanks
~Russ    
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 26th, 2012, 12:25 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 26th, 2012, 11:28 AM
Good work, the feed back signail is a square wave. Not a sign wave, so try the square wave. Seems everyone has that sig gen! Lol I find that funny! It's a good one! But my Chanel one is out! Hope the warrantee is good...

Thanks
~Russ
What happens on resonance and what does the signal look like at the secondary coil when you pulse it with 50% square wave on the primary?

You get AC voltage. The pickup coil sees this and this is what you want. Keep it on resonance.
The pickup circuit gets AC and translate it to DC pickup pulse and we measure the phase between coil driver pulse, the PLL should correct. Then we have resonance.

The pulse 50% DU generates AC harmonics on the secondary coil when out of resonance so this bandwidth is not so wide windowed from the resonance frequency. The scanner go up en down in frequency if out of resonance.

That what I understand????

See http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3818#pid3818 for charging choke coil with AC.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 27th, 2012, 05:13 AM
Added circuit from the VIC PCB reversed engineered by Tony.
This is the PCB circuit with modifications on the patent circuits.

The "voltage amplitude control" is not part of Tony's PCB.

Sharky, did you get the circuit information from the patents or from the estate photos or both?

Hope this helps!

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 27th, 2012, 08:48 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 27th, 2012, 05:13 AM
Added circuit from the VIC PCB reversed engineered by Tony.
This is the PCB circuit with modifications on the patent circuits.

The "voltage amplitude control" is not part of Tony's PCB.

Sharky, did you get the circuit information from the patents or from the estate photos or both?

Hope this helps!

Br,
Webmug
If you open the KiCad project you will find a schematic with the name: Voltage Amplitude Control Original.sch

That contains the schematic as it was in Meyers patents, the digital to analog is missing though, ... that is probably why it did not work :). To work arround it at that moment i changed it to a much simplier version to be able to continue, when the other work is done i will retry the original amplitude control.

All the information comes from the patents, the images and the fine trace done by Haxar on the original vic card.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 27th, 2012, 09:19 AM
Quote from Sharky on March 27th, 2012, 08:48 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 27th, 2012, 05:13 AM
Added circuit from the VIC PCB reversed engineered by Tony.
This is the PCB circuit with modifications on the patent circuits.

The "voltage amplitude control" is not part of Tony's PCB.

Sharky, did you get the circuit information from the patents or from the estate photos or both?

Hope this helps!

Br,
Webmug
If you open the KiCad project you will find a schematic with the name: Voltage Amplitude Control Original.sch

That contains the schematic as it was in Meyers patents, the digital to analog is missing though, ... that is probably why it did not work :). To work arround it at that moment i changed it to a much simplier version to be able to continue, when the other work is done i will retry the original amplitude control.

All the information comes from the patents, the images and the fine trace done by Haxar on the original vic card.
Yes, I found it in the files, nice!

At the input J we need a Variable duty cycle (probably you already know this)
Frequency didn't do much, can be 1kHz.

Stan said the Voltage Amplitude Control should use it's own power supply, not the same as the driver etc. !
p3-5 WFC 422 DA
...electrically isolated (crossover voltage from separated power supplies)...

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: wfchobby on March 27th, 2012, 07:40 PM
Hi,
if it helps, I have attached the schematic from Tony Woodside that is in the Eagle Files he released yesterday.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 27th, 2012, 11:20 PM
Quote from wfchobby on March 27th, 2012, 07:40 PM
Hi,
if it helps, I have attached the schematic from Tony Woodside that is in the Eagle Files he released yesterday.
ah, good, thanks! i was hoping some one would do this!!

lets take what tony has done in to concentration but also look over everything as we don't want to copy tony, but more or less use it as a reference,

 i want to say thanks to tony for all his hard work and doing it in the open like the rest of us!! i now it took tony a lot of hard work and research for a lot longer than we all have been messing with this circuit.   Blessings tony and thank you for going for the Full Open source way as i know the things that that can involve... :) god bless you man! ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on March 27th, 2012, 11:39 PM
Thanks Russ! I should have released all this info sooner, but like you said in your video today, sometimes we do stuff that we later regret. I had planned on releasing this months ago but I didn't want my guy Spencer to be mad at me about it cuz we worked on a prototype version of this together March of last year. Before we purchased the photo's from Don back last year, we had already figured out all the IC's used, all we needed were the correct resistor & capacitor values in the circuit. I will probably continue to sell the bare VIC Circuit boards with no components on my site for around $50 each, which that isn't a bad price at all.

Well if theres anything I can help ya with just let me know on here or drop me an email at tonywoodside@gmail.com
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 27th, 2012, 11:46 PM
Quote from Webmug on March 27th, 2012, 09:19 AM
Yes, I found it in the files, nice!

At the input J we need a Variable duty cycle (probably you already know this)
Frequency didn't do much, can be 1kHz.

Stan said the Voltage Amplitude Control should use it's own power supply, not the same as the driver etc. !
p3-5 WFC 422 DA
...electrically isolated (crossover voltage from separated power supplies)...

Br,
Webmug
Yes but i do not think he actually means a different physical supply, remember we are working on a system to be put in a car here working of the car battery. The traced connections indicate that using it's own power supply here means that the Voltage Amplitude Control is connected directly to the 12V car battery and driving the primairy coil. The rest of the circuits are connected to the 10V voltage regulator and not influenced by the battery power fluctuations.

Something else to be carefull with is power fluctuations between components, on the original vic there are 33nF capacitors between power and ground at all IC's, why? Well the 4046 and 555 and 318 and 741 all depend with there output signal on the power supplied to it. If for example the 4046 is fed with 15V for a moment instead of 10V it will output a 15V pulse instead of a 10V pulse. That may very well be the spikes you had in your signal. So to work with clean signals all IC's need to be decoupled as close as possible to the IC itself with a 33nF capacitor. It is not in the current uploaded project version yet but i will upload the latest version as soon as possible.

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on March 28th, 2012, 12:15 AM
Quote from Sharky on March 27th, 2012, 11:46 PM
Quote from Webmug on March 27th, 2012, 09:19 AM
Yes, I found it in the files, nice!

At the input J we need a Variable duty cycle (probably you already know this)
Frequency didn't do much, can be 1kHz.

Stan said the Voltage Amplitude Control should use it's own power supply, not the same as the driver etc. !
p3-5 WFC 422 DA
...electrically isolated (crossover voltage from separated power supplies)...

Br,
Webmug
Yes but i do not think he actually means a different physical supply, remember we are working on a system to be put in a car here working of the car battery. The traced connections indicate that using it's own power supply here means that the Voltage Amplitude Control is connected directly to the 12V car battery and driving the primairy coil. The rest of the circuits are connected to the 10V voltage regulator and not influenced by the battery power fluctuations.

Something else to be carefull with is power fluctuations between components, on the original vic there are 33nF capacitors between power and ground at all IC's, why? Well the 4046 and 555 and 318 and 741 all depend with there output signal on the power supplied to it. If for example the 4046 is fed with 15V for a moment instead of 10V it will output a 15V pulse instead of a 10V pulse. That may very well be the spikes you had in your signal. So to work with clean signals all IC's need to be decoupled as close as possible to the IC itself with a 33nF capacitor. It is not in the current uploaded project version yet but i will upload the latest version as soon as possible.
Here's a simple voltage control circuit that I came up with instead of using the one Stan has in his VIC circuit. The reason I didn't include Stan voltage control in my circuit was because it really wasnt needed for testing. But this circuit works just fine for me. It uses a 1k and 10k resistor, a 50K POT, and a 2N3055 transistor.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 28th, 2012, 03:00 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 28th, 2012, 12:15 AM
Quote from Sharky on March 27th, 2012, 11:46 PM
Quote from Webmug on March 27th, 2012, 09:19 AM
Yes, I found it in the files, nice!

At the input J we need a Variable duty cycle (probably you already know this)
Frequency didn't do much, can be 1kHz.

Stan said the Voltage Amplitude Control should use it's own power supply, not the same as the driver etc. !
p3-5 WFC 422 DA
...electrically isolated (crossover voltage from separated power supplies)...

Br,
Webmug
Yes but i do not think he actually means a different physical supply, remember we are working on a system to be put in a car here working of the car battery. The traced connections indicate that using it's own power supply here means that the Voltage Amplitude Control is connected directly to the 12V car battery and driving the primairy coil. The rest of the circuits are connected to the 10V voltage regulator and not influenced by the battery power fluctuations.

Something else to be carefull with is power fluctuations between components, on the original vic there are 33nF capacitors between power and ground at all IC's, why? Well the 4046 and 555 and 318 and 741 all depend with there output signal on the power supplied to it. If for example the 4046 is fed with 15V for a moment instead of 10V it will output a 15V pulse instead of a 10V pulse. That may very well be the spikes you had in your signal. So to work with clean signals all IC's need to be decoupled as close as possible to the IC itself with a 33nF capacitor. It is not in the current uploaded project version yet but i will upload the latest version as soon as possible.
Here's a simple voltage control circuit that I came up with instead of using the one Stan has in his VIC circuit. The reason I didn't include Stan voltage control in my circuit was because it really wasnt needed for testing. But this circuit works just fine for me. It uses a 1k and 10k resistor, a 50K POT, and a 2N3055 transistor.
Hi Tony,

Do you have an voltage amplitude OFFSET of 1V with this circuit?
On top of this offset the pulse/gate signal?
Voltage Amplitude Control(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1934.msg22446.html#msg22446)

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 28th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Also Tony, what is meant by an AM waveform just above resonant frequency, could you explain, thanks.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 28th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Just uploaded the last version of the project, made some small changes, now it is locking in up to 5.2KHz, beyond that there is no lock but should not be a problem as resonance is probably a lot lower. I hope to have a first test pcb in by the end of next week. If that tests out allright we can make the V1.0 design final.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 28th, 2012, 07:27 AM
Quote from Sharky on March 28th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Just uploaded the last version of the project, made some small changes, now it is locking in up to 5.2KHz, beyond that there is no lock but should not be a problem as resonance is probably a lot lower. I hope to have a first test pcb in by the end of next week. If that tests out allright we can make the V1.0 design final.
Where did you upload it to Sharky?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 28th, 2012, 09:42 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 28th, 2012, 07:27 AM
Quote from Sharky on March 28th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Just uploaded the last version of the project, made some small changes, now it is locking in up to 5.2KHz, beyond that there is no lock but should not be a problem as resonance is probably a lot lower. I hope to have a first test pcb in by the end of next week. If that tests out allright we can make the V1.0 design final.
Where did you upload it to Sharky?
Start of this thread.
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=311&pid=2628#pid2628

Br,
Webmug

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 28th, 2012, 10:38 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 28th, 2012, 09:42 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 28th, 2012, 07:27 AM
Quote from Sharky on March 28th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Just uploaded the last version of the project, made some small changes, now it is locking in up to 5.2KHz, beyond that there is no lock but should not be a problem as resonance is probably a lot lower. I hope to have a first test pcb in by the end of next week. If that tests out allright we can make the V1.0 design final.
Where did you upload it to Sharky?
Start of this thread.
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=311&pid=2628#pid2628

Br,
Webmug
Thanks.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 28th, 2012, 10:55 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 28th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Also Tony, what is meant by an AM waveform just above resonant frequency, could you explain, thanks.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but how do you charge a capacitor with AM waveform?
Not with AC voltage.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: danielgpalacios on March 28th, 2012, 11:25 AM
Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 06:05 AM
Several people already have build their VIC circuits based on pictures and the schematics from WO9207861. If we want to replicate Meyers work and get the cell to work we need the complete schematics. Since 'they' only sell their complete VIC schematics and do not give the full design for free its time to work it out completely and offer it for FREE (yes i share the thoughts of Russ that this will only work if all is available for free).

Haxar already did some fine work in tracing the VIC card. I now started to completely design the entire VIC with KICAD. I choose this toolset because it is available on Linux/Windows, it is open-source, reasonable easy to learn, it supports nested schematics, it comes with a good autorouter function and has the abillity to generate gerber files for pcb manufacturing. Anyway, ... if you do not like KICAD it is your problem :P, else download it at http://kicad.sourceforge.net. I used KiCad-2011-12-28-BZR3254-stable-Win_full_with_components_doc_install.exe from http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/cao/ . If you download the snapshots the libraries will not get installed. Download the project zip file and use the unarchive option in the KiCad main menu to load it.

Complete:
- variable pulse generator
- gated pulse generator
- phase lock loop circuit
- pulse indicator circuit
- resonant scanning circuit
- Voltage Amplitude Control
- cell driver circuit

Schematics build on prototype board and verified:
- variable pulse generator
- gated pulse generator
- phase lock loop circuit
- pulse indicator circuit
- resonant scanning circuit
- Voltage Amplitude Control
- cell driver circuit

PCB:
- Components to modules complete for current schematic
- Components placed and traces made
- Generated Gerber files

Latest KiCad project file date: 28 march 2012

Regards,
Sharky
Sharky: thank you for you job. In the cell driver the bc556 is ok? Because the emisor is conected to gnd and colector to vcc. Is the PNP transistor. Is polarized in inverse.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 28th, 2012, 11:43 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 28th, 2012, 10:55 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 28th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Also Tony, what is meant by an AM waveform just above resonant frequency, could you explain, thanks.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but how do you charge a capacitor with AM waveform?
Not with AC voltage.

Br,
Webmug
One reason why I am asking for clarification.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on March 28th, 2012, 11:55 AM
@Webmug - The only way that I have gotten the cell to charge is when I was testing with the 8XA circuit which produced a pretty AM waveform are 2.2khz - 2.6khz. The cell would charge to over 800v pk-pk and I would get a little HHO. The diode in the circuit keeps the current in one direction instead of allowing it to swing. You usually get an AM signal just above the resonant frequency and in Stan's documents he says XL > XC, so this tells me that the circuit has to be totally inductive. As you know at resonance XL = XC, so its not resonance in a sense. Also from further testing I noticed that the 2.2khz - 2.6khz that I was getting could be done without the cell connected, meaning the resonance was taking place in the coils itself.
one other thing, in Stan's VIC Circuit he didnt use the 4017's in the PLL circuit. I think I know why, it looks like the 4017's dont produce a 50% duty cycle. The only way to get 50% duty cycle is to run it straight off the PLL.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 28th, 2012, 12:03 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 28th, 2012, 11:55 AM
@Webmug - The only way that I have gotten the cell to charge is when I was testing with the 8XA circuit which produced a pretty AM waveform are 2.2khz - 2.6khz. The cell would charge to over 800v pk-pk and I would get a little HHO. The diode in the circuit keeps the current in one direction instead of allowing it to swing. You usually get an AM signal just above the resonant frequency and in Stan's documents he says XL > XC, so this tells me that the circuit has to be totally inductive. As you know at resonance XL = XC, so its not resonance in a sense. Also from further testing I noticed that the 2.2khz - 2.6khz that I was getting could be done without the cell connected, meaning the resonance was taking place in the coils itself.

one other thing, in Stan's VIC Circuit he didnt use the 4017's in the PLL circuit. I think I know why, it looks like the 4017's dont produce a 50% duty cycle. The only way to get 50% duty cycle is to run it straight off the PLL.
Thank you Tony, this helps.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 28th, 2012, 12:28 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 28th, 2012, 11:55 AM
@Webmug - The only way that I have gotten the cell to charge is when I was testing with the 8XA circuit which produced a pretty AM waveform are 2.2khz - 2.6khz. The cell would charge to over 800v pk-pk and I would get a little HHO. The diode in the circuit keeps the current in one direction instead of allowing it to swing. You usually get an AM signal just above the resonant frequency and in Stan's documents he says XL > XC, so this tells me that the circuit has to be totally inductive. As you know at resonance XL = XC, so its not resonance in a sense. Also from further testing I noticed that the 2.2khz - 2.6khz that I was getting could be done without the cell connected, meaning the resonance was taking place in the coils itself.
Yes, you are correct on the INDUCTIVE part Xl > Xc !
The chokes must overcome the capacitor.
But capacitor has effect on the chokes when connected, but not much I think.
So even unconnected VIC has it's own resonance frequency.
Choke NEG should be tuned to get the voltages equal but opposite due one side of the capacitor (dielectric) I think.

We PULSE the primary coil to get resonance at the secondary coil.
So we have AC at the secondary coil. Maximum voltage amplitude!
The secondary coil is on resonance and charges the chokes with AC very quickly with a number of "pulses" (=AC swings)

The chokes can handle a charge to a point when it doesn't charge anymore.
Resistance to current change!

Then when we GATE the PULSE (AC secondary) the energy stored in the chokes is discharged to the WFC. The discharge is in the form of UNIPOLAR pulse because its a critically damped RLC system and the chokes are opposite of each other and we getting double pulse because of bouncing off the DIODE. This critically damped choke has it's own resonance frequency, what do you think this is??? Hint secondary...
All the coils are on resonance at the same frequency. Here the PLL comes into play.

This UNIPOLAR pulse is charging the WFC on both sides at the same time. So amps are restricted at the same time on double pulses and it can't flow through the WFC!

So the signals we had seen before (opposite AC signals from the chokes) are just the start of tuning the chokes!

Stan called this VIC --> Voltage Intensifier circuit, very clever.

Note:
When PULSE is GATED the PLL is shutdown by the inhibit pin.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 28th, 2012, 01:05 PM
Quote from Webmug on March 28th, 2012, 12:28 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 28th, 2012, 11:55 AM
@Webmug - The only way that I have gotten the cell to charge is when I was testing with the 8XA circuit which produced a pretty AM waveform are 2.2khz - 2.6khz. The cell would charge to over 800v pk-pk and I would get a little HHO. The diode in the circuit keeps the current in one direction instead of allowing it to swing. You usually get an AM signal just above the resonant frequency and in Stan's documents he says XL > XC, so this tells me that the circuit has to be totally inductive. As you know at resonance XL = XC, so its not resonance in a sense. Also from further testing I noticed that the 2.2khz - 2.6khz that I was getting could be done without the cell connected, meaning the resonance was taking place in the coils itself.
Yes, you are correct on the INDUCTIVE part Xl > Xc !
The chokes must overcome the capacitor.
But capacitor has effect on the chokes when connected, but not much I think.
So even unconnected VIC has it's own resonance frequency.
Choke NEG should be tuned to get the voltages equal but opposite due one side of the capacitor (dielectric) I think.

We PULSE the primary coil to get resonance at the secondary coil.
So we have AC at the secondary coil. Maximum voltage amplitude!
The secondary coil is on resonance and charges the chokes with AC very quickly with a number of "pulses" (=AC swings)

The chokes can handle a charge to a point when it doesn't charge anymore.
Resistance to current change!

Then when we GATE the PULSE (AC secondary) the energy stored in the chokes is discharged to the WFC. The discharge is in the form of UNIPOLAR pulse because its a critically damped RLC system and the chokes are opposite of each other and we getting double pulse because of bouncing off the DIODE. This critically damped choke has it's own resonance frequency, what do you think this is??? Hint secondary...
All the coils are on resonance at the same frequency. Here the PLL comes into play.

This UNIPOLAR pulse is charging the WFC on both sides at the same time. So amps are restricted at the same time on double pulses and it can't flow through the WFC!

So the signals we had seen before (opposite AC signals from the chokes) are just the start of tuning the chokes!

Stan called this VIC --> Voltage Intensifier circuit, very clever.

Note:
When PULSE is GATED the PLL is shutdown by the inhibit pin.

Br,
Webmug
Wow Webmug, very cool explanation, now I think we are getting somewhere.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on March 29th, 2012, 12:35 AM
so technical! lol grate job on this thread guys! i was planing on setting my circuit up with the iron cores i have but its been really busy today and i don't think I'm going to get to it today...

also, sharky do you have the PBC done in the new upload? i may go for a test run with the PCB i have... got that double sided PCB clad Board awaiting the go ahead!

grate! now we are getting some where! god speed and blessings to all! ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 29th, 2012, 02:56 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 29th, 2012, 12:35 AM
so technical! lol grate job on this thread guys! i was planing on setting my circuit up with the iron cores i have but its been really busy today and i don't think I'm going to get to it today...

also, sharky do you have the PBC done in the new upload? i may go for a test run with the PCB i have... got that double sided PCB clad Board awaiting the go ahead!

grate! now we are getting some where! god speed and blessings to all! ~Russ
Yes the pcb is there. Open pcbnew from kicad and just select print, select both layers and off you go ...
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 29th, 2012, 07:44 AM
Hi,

More to think about how the chokes are designed.

"The pulse (chokes UNIPOLAR) and charge status of the water/capacitor never pass through an arbitrary ground."
So he said it! Critically damped :exclamation:

If this is true then there is no choke coil oscillation! No frequency!
When we have no frequency we have UNIPOLAR PULSE.
But we can charge them up with a pump frequency !

If we want to design a choke to comply with these specs, we must have high resistance. What he said about making use of the dielectric properties of water, there is resistance between the plates a gap size. Lookup the variable plate WFC.

On the injectors WFC there is little resistance so he build large resistance choke coils to satisfy the design rule making UNIPOLAR pulse. I guess charging the choke requires higher pump frequency to get higher kV voltages.

Also the WFC capacitance is important because we have different water types in it.
This effects the capacitance. I think he designed the chokes for a few water types but not all. Tap water is higher in capacitance then Rain water, so
the RLC is adjusted for it.

For the square bobbin VIC transformer type he makes use of the fixed gap size (resistance) in the RLC circuit. Combine this with the choke coils R.

Example:
L=1.22H, C=15.7nF, we need R=17.5kOhm to get UNIPOLAR PULSE.

I need more feedback on this, let me know what you think :exclamation:

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 29th, 2012, 08:02 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 29th, 2012, 07:44 AM
Hi,

More to think about how the chokes are designed.

"The pulse (chokes UNIPOLAR) and charge status of the water/capacitor never pass through an arbitrary ground."
So he said it! Critically damped :exclamation:

If this is true then there is no choke coil oscillation! No frequency!
When we have no frequency we have UNIPOLAR PULSE.
But we can charge them up with a pump frequency !

If we want to design a choke to comply with these specs, we must have high resistance. What he said about making use of the dielectric properties of water, there is resistance between the plates a gap size. Lookup the variable plate WFC.

On the injectors WFC there is little resistance so he build large resistance choke coils to satisfy the design rule making UNIPOLAR pulse. I guess charging the choke requires higher pump frequency to get higher kV voltages.

Also the WFC capacitance is important because we have different water types in it.
This effects the capacitance. I think he designed the chokes for a few water types but not all. Tap water is higher in capacitance then Rain water, so
the RLC is adjusted for it.

For the square bobbin VIC transformer type he makes use of the fixed gap size (resistance) in the RLC circuit. Combine this with the choke coils R.

Example:
L=1.22H, C=15.7nF, we need R=17.5kOhm to get UNIPOLAR PULSE.

I need more feedback on this, let me know what you think :exclamation:

Br,
Webmug
Stan also said sea water could be used, this would let electrons flow freely, lower resistance than tap water.

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on March 29th, 2012, 08:05 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 29th, 2012, 08:02 AM
Stan also said sea water could be used, this would let electrons flow freely, lower resistance than tap water.
Yes, as long as you restrict amps! But you need more choke resistance, I think.

Br,
Webmug

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on March 29th, 2012, 09:18 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 29th, 2012, 08:05 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 29th, 2012, 08:02 AM
Stan also said sea water could be used, this would let electrons flow freely, lower resistance than tap water.
Yes, as long as you restrict amps! But you need more choke resistance, I think.

Br,
Webmug
Yes, could be the reason for the adjustable choke.

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on March 29th, 2012, 11:37 AM
Sharky.can i use 74LS123 IC for gated pulse gen, i cant find 74LS122 .Btw in the gated pulse gen original pcb there are 7IC's not 5 like in the patents,and your skematics!!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on March 29th, 2012, 02:27 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 29th, 2012, 11:37 AM
Sharky.can i use 74LS123 IC for gated pulse gen, i cant find 74LS122 .Btw in the gated pulse gen original pcb there are 7IC's not 5 like in the patents,and your skematics!!!
This is a nice little circuit I came up with that outputs a adjustable triangle signal that can be inputted to the 4046. It has amplitude, frequency, and extended frequency capabilities.
Based on my calculations, the scan-time can be extended to as low as 0.0859 Hz (11.65 sec.). R3 = 5k, R4 = 100k, C1 = 10uF
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on March 30th, 2012, 02:16 AM
what this got to do with what i said?The point is that the schematic in the patent is not complete,a litle analisys of patent,original gating ckt pictures and your skematic:patent skematic has 5ic's,your skematic has 3,original skematic has 7ic's,see att
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: haxar on March 30th, 2012, 03:49 AM
Quote from adys15 on March 30th, 2012, 02:16 AM
what this got to do with what i said?The point is that the schematic in the patent is not complete,a litle analisys of patent,original gating ckt pictures and your skematic:patent skematic has 5ic's,your skematic has 3,original skematic has 7ic's,see att
Not every gate in the schematic is its own Integrated Circuit.

The 4001 IC has 4 NOR CMOS gates to utilize. Same for the 7408 IC which has 4 AND TTL gates.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on March 30th, 2012, 10:15 AM
on the Gate card the 7432 wasn't used, you can see where Stan cut the traces. The card also has a section of the Safety Control System on it.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on March 30th, 2012, 11:19 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 30th, 2012, 10:15 AM
on the Gate card the 7432 wasn't used, you can see where Stan cut the traces. The card also has a section of the Safety Control System on it.
Hi,
Tony is correct, you have to remember the vic was an engineering system and not all IC's and/or components are used or connected or as in this case it first was but for some reason he took it out by cutting the traces.

This why the complete trace along side the patent circuits is so important. About the 74122, it can not just be replaced by a 74123, both are retriggerable monostable multivibrators but their pin layout and workings is different. How come you can not get one of the 74ls122's? If i check mouser or farnell i find them at arround $0.50 to $1.00, almost all online electronics suppliers have them. Where are you situated?

Regards,
Sharky
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on March 30th, 2012, 11:49 AM
Thanks verry much Tony and Sharky,I saw there are little scraches on the board,but was not sure,as for the 74122 i have to order the parts from another town,i search their sites and stuch with what they have to offer:( verry frustating(i am from Romania btw),and in this country this ''hobby'' is dyeing,so verry little shops and verry little parts, i hardly found parts for 8xa and that's why i was asking you guys what can i use instead of a SCR,i am moving verry hard.Thanks verry much again guys for all the info you are verry kind!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on March 30th, 2012, 06:56 PM
Adys15,
If you want to use a 74123 in place of the 74122, you can connect it like I show in the attached drawing. If at all possible, use a 100k Pot for R1 and a 10uF variable capacitor for C1.

-Tony Woodside

http://www.GlobalKast.com
Haha...I forgot to add the image..lol...here it is...if you have any questions just let me know.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 12:11 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 30th, 2012, 06:56 PM
Adys15,
If you want to use a 74123 in place of the 74122, you can connect it like I show in the attached drawing. If at all possible, use a 100k Pot for R1 and a 10uF variable capacitor for C1.

-Tony Woodside

http://www.GlobalKast.com

Haha...I forgot to add the image..lol...here it is...if you have any questions just let me know.
Thanks Tony,again,i will buy the 74123 and rest of parts and get working,how you are doing whith your experiments?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 01:32 AM
Tony I have another Q:why do you use 7402(Quad 2-Input NOR Gates) because stan used 7404(SN7404 - These devices contain six independent inverters)or amplifier or something...,and another Q:in the patent skematic there 4  IC gates ,2 pairs of gates,1 pair is a single IC ?(,and if so the skematic contains a total of 3 ICs),or there is 2 separate IC's conected together,and if so the skematic contains a total of 5 ICs.Sorry for the dummy Q but all the skematics that i have from patent sharky,and you dont mach:d,waiting reply
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 11:35 AM
in my setup I used the 7402 which uses a 5v supply, Stan used a MC14001BCP NOR gate IC.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 03:58 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 11:35 AM
in my setup I used the 7402 which uses a 5v supply, Stan used a MC14001BCP NOR gate IC.
I see,you are using the 7402 instead of  MC14001BCP,but in stan skem i see the  MC14001BCP,it has a trace scrached,so is not used i think,whatever...
Wow that skem is the real deal,the exact schematic of the original gated pulse gen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm right?:x how do you manage to copy the exact skematic?you put a metter on it?:)) because  the pics are a bit confusing when you are trying to copy the traces
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 04:06 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 03:58 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 11:35 AM
in my setup I used the 7402 which uses a 5v supply, Stan used a MC14001BCP NOR gate IC.
I see,you are using the 7402 instead of  MC14001BCP,but in stan skem i see the  MC14001BCP,it has a trace scrached,so is not used i think,whatever...
Wow that skem is the real deal,the exact schematic of the original gated pulse gen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm right?:x how do you manage to copy the exact skematic?you put a metter on it?:)) because  the pics are a bit confusing when you are trying to copy the traces
Here's a PDF file layout of the Gate Pulse Gen that I put together using Eagle CAD.

I also wanna make a note just in case people didn't know, in Stan's circuit you see VEE...VEE typically is labeled as a negative voltage source, but in Stan's case the VEE is just the 12v or 10v ignition switch voltage.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM
Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM
Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )
Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM
Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )
Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.
Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM
Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM
Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )
Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.
Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!
Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 04:10 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM
Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM
Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )
Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.
Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!
Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.
This is the 9XA Circuit. Its basically two 8XA Circuits put together so that you have a Gate Pulse and Resonant Pulse.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on April 1st, 2012, 05:55 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 04:10 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM
Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM
Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )
Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.
Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!
Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.
This is the 9XA Circuit. Its basically two 8XA Circuits put together so that you have a Gate Pulse and Resonant Pulse.
Tony what are the outputs connected to?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 06:11 PM
[/quote]Tony what are the outputs connected to?[/quote]Its connected just like the 8XA circuit. The "IN" comes from the variac and through a 100 Ohms 10W/25W resistor. The "OUT" goes to the SCR's gate.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on April 1st, 2012, 06:41 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 06:11 PM
Tony what are the outputs connected to?[/quote]Its connected just like the 8XA circuit. The "IN" comes from the variac and through a 100 Ohms 10W/25W resistor. The "OUT" goes to the SCR's gate.[/quote]Ok,:D, so you still used the scr and not a mosfet or something that would switch off and on very fast? Thanks. The problem I have is that the scr never shuts down, it's not fast enough before the next pulse.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on April 1st, 2012, 11:25 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on April 1st, 2012, 06:41 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 06:11 PM
Its connected just like the 8XA circuit. The "IN" comes from the variac and through a 100 Ohms 10W/25W resistor. The "OUT" goes to the SCR's gate.
Ok,:D, so you still used the scr and not a mosfet or something that would switch off and on very fast? Thanks. The problem I have is that the scr never shuts down, it's not fast enough before the next pulse.
Hi Jeff,
The problem with a SCR is that a pulse on the gate switches it on but if the pulse terminates it does not switch of automatically!!! A SCR only switches off when the current at the anode goes below a certain value. So if you connect it to a rectified AC signal your output frequency can never go above 120Hz (in europe 100 Hz since it will be 2*60Hz or 2*50Hz). This is because the SCR will only switch off when the input at the anode passes 0.

To make the 8XA work at higher frequencies you need to replace it with a power transistor or mosfet.

Regards,
Sharky
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on April 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM
i have a question. tony, sharky and any one else that has an answer...

on the output driver circuit, if we have a diode (D7) across the output coil. we loose all our transients that make the system work... or at least that what I'm seeing.

we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???

PS.tony nice posts lately!!! amazing! you have just boosted this work over the edge! thank you!

gos bless

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: haxar on April 2nd, 2012, 12:18 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM
we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???
I reckon the diode is there across the primary coil to suppress big voltage spikes going to the TIP120 driving transistor, preventing from killing it and/or the rest of the circuit. The 220 ohm resistor across the primary coil may also play a role in that.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 2nd, 2012, 12:34 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM
Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM
Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )
Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.
Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!
Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.
Thanks again Tony,now i see where my skematic was wrong,my 7404 pin 4 goes to LED yours go to OKT,,my 12 pin goes to OKT,and i have to many pins ''shorted out''you have just 2,i will try it today!Anyone has the conection pins for using a mosfet instead of a SCR?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: wfchobby on April 2nd, 2012, 12:51 AM
" we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes".

thats exactly where im at. Bob Boyce made his doscivery when a regulator in an alternator blew in his boat.

Is there a simple way of driving a coil to keep the spikes and have a reliable driver?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on April 2nd, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM
i have a question. tony, sharky and any one else that has an answer...

on the output driver circuit, if we have a diode (D7) across the output coil. we loose all our transients that make the system work... or at least that what I'm seeing.

we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???

PS.tony nice posts lately!!! amazing! you have just boosted this work over the edge! thank you!

gos bless

~Russ
Well in my opinion the diode is needed, ... if you take out D7 and connect the primary coil directly to to PWR and D8 it will function the same as it currently does when the Q6 TIP120 is conducting. However when the TIP120 is closed  on the gating, the collapse of the magnetic field on L1 will cause a back emf spike on the primary which could easily fry your TIP120, ... with D7 present there is an alternative path for the current to take, ... energy can keep circulating through the primary coil while waiting for the next time the TIP120 starts conducting again. Current will always take the path of least resistance. Remember Meyer said the system kept producing HHO for upto 90 seconds after being turned off, ... could well be because of D7 being there ...
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on April 2nd, 2012, 02:05 AM
Quote from Sharky on April 2nd, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM
i have a question. tony, sharky and any one else that has an answer...

on the output driver circuit, if we have a diode (D7) across the output coil. we loose all our transients that make the system work... or at least that what I'm seeing.

we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???

PS.tony nice posts lately!!! amazing! you have just boosted this work over the edge! thank you!

gos bless

~Russ
Well in my opinion the diode is needed, ... if you take out D7 and connect the primary coil directly to to PWR and D8 it will function the same as it currently does when the Q6 TIP120 is conducting. However when the TIP120 is closed  on the gating, the collapse of the magnetic field on L1 will cause a back emf spike on the primary which could easily fry your TIP120, ... with D7 present there is an alternative path for the current to take, ... energy can keep circulating through the primary coil while waiting for the next time the TIP120 starts conducting again. Current will always take the path of least resistance. Remember Meyer said the system kept producing HHO for upto 90 seconds after being turned off, ... could well be because of D7 being there ...
all good reply's...

i know in normal practices you want that diode to protect the circuit ect...  but! this is not normal practice!!! we want out of the box! lol

but in this case when i place that diode across the primary i would stop seeing  those spikes. i mean yeah we want to protect the circuit. but the emf and such gets suppressed.  play with it on sim and real life... let me know what you see. i see my high voltage spikes no more... there just suppressed in the diode inductor. going round and round till there is nothing left... but i don't see that spike!

??? or am i confused?

i charged a cap with a 1:1 transformer, primary pulsed, secondary connected to a diode in the LC circuit. charged a cap up to 230Vdc... this i could do all day. but as soon as i put that diode across the primary... nota... like 8Vdc on the cap...

?????

Thanks!
~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: andy on April 2nd, 2012, 04:35 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 2nd, 2012, 02:05 AM
Quote from Sharky on April 2nd, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM
i have a question. tony, sharky and any one else that has an answer...

on the output driver circuit, if we have a diode (D7) across the output coil. we loose all our transients that make the system work... or at least that what I'm seeing.

we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???

PS.tony nice posts lately!!! amazing! you have just boosted this work over the edge! thank you!

gos bless

~Russ
Well in my opinion the diode is needed, ... if you take out D7 and connect the primary coil directly to to PWR and D8 it will function the same as it currently does when the Q6 TIP120 is conducting. However when the TIP120 is closed  on the gating, the collapse of the magnetic field on L1 will cause a back emf spike on the primary which could easily fry your TIP120, ... with D7 present there is an alternative path for the current to take, ... energy can keep circulating through the primary coil while waiting for the next time the TIP120 starts conducting again. Current will always take the path of least resistance. Remember Meyer said the system kept producing HHO for upto 90 seconds after being turned off, ... could well be because of D7 being there ...
all good reply's...

i know in normal practices you want that diode to protect the circuit ect...  but! this is not normal practice!!! we want out of the box! lol

but in this case when i place that diode across the primary i would stop seeing  those spikes. i mean yeah we want to protect the circuit. but the emf and such gets suppressed.  play with it on sim and real life... let me know what you see. i see my high voltage spikes no more... there just suppressed in the diode inductor. going round and round till there is nothing left... but i don't see that spike!

??? or am i confused?

i charged a cap with a 1:1 transformer, primary pulsed, secondary connected to a diode in the LC circuit. charged a cap up to 230Vdc... this i could do all day. but as soon as i put that diode across the primary... nota... like 8Vdc on the cap...

?????

Thanks!
~Russ
HI All
We can add a diode accros collector and emiter of the Tip 120 to protect it . Then back EMF be on the primary coil.
andy
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 05:47 AM
Quote from Sharky on April 1st, 2012, 11:25 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on April 1st, 2012, 06:41 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 06:11 PM
Its connected just like the 8XA circuit. The "IN" comes from the variac and through a 100 Ohms 10W/25W resistor. The "OUT" goes to the SCR's gate.
Ok,:D, so you still used the scr and not a mosfet or something that would switch off and on very fast? Thanks. The problem I have is that the scr never shuts down, it's not fast enough before the next pulse.
Hi Jeff,
The problem with a SCR is that a pulse on the gate switches it on but if the pulse terminates it does not switch of automatically!!! A SCR only switches off when the current at the anode goes below a certain value. So if you connect it to a rectified AC signal your output frequency can never go above 120Hz (in europe 100 Hz since it will be 2*60Hz or 2*50Hz). This is because the SCR will only switch off when the input at the anode passes 0.

To make the 8XA work at higher frequencies you need to replace it with a power transistor or mosfet.

Regards,
Sharky
Thanks Sharky, would you have a schematic showing a power transistor or mosfet in the circuit instead of the scr?

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on April 3rd, 2012, 12:32 AM
Quote from andy on April 2nd, 2012, 04:35 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 2nd, 2012, 02:05 AM
Quote from Sharky on April 2nd, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM
i have a question. tony, sharky and any one else that has an answer...

on the output driver circuit, if we have a diode (D7) across the output coil. we loose all our transients that make the system work... or at least that what I'm seeing.

we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???

PS.tony nice posts lately!!! amazing! you have just boosted this work over the edge! thank you!

gos bless

~Russ
Well in my opinion the diode is needed, ... if you take out D7 and connect the primary coil directly to to PWR and D8 it will function the same as it currently does when the Q6 TIP120 is conducting. However when the TIP120 is closed  on the gating, the collapse of the magnetic field on L1 will cause a back emf spike on the primary which could easily fry your TIP120, ... with D7 present there is an alternative path for the current to take, ... energy can keep circulating through the primary coil while waiting for the next time the TIP120 starts conducting again. Current will always take the path of least resistance. Remember Meyer said the system kept producing HHO for upto 90 seconds after being turned off, ... could well be because of D7 being there ...
all good reply's...

i know in normal practices you want that diode to protect the circuit ect...  but! this is not normal practice!!! we want out of the box! lol

but in this case when i place that diode across the primary i would stop seeing  those spikes. i mean yeah we want to protect the circuit. but the emf and such gets suppressed.  play with it on sim and real life... let me know what you see. i see my high voltage spikes no more... there just suppressed in the diode inductor. going round and round till there is nothing left... but i don't see that spike!

??? or am i confused?

i charged a cap with a 1:1 transformer, primary pulsed, secondary connected to a diode in the LC circuit. charged a cap up to 230Vdc... this i could do all day. but as soon as i put that diode across the primary... nota... like 8Vdc on the cap...

?????

Thanks!
~Russ
HI All
We can add a diode accros collector and emiter of the Tip 120 to protect it . Then back EMF be on the primary coil.
andy
yes we can. The emf still go to all the circuit but i want others to see if they have the same effect. and see where we go... i'm going to try the VIC with the steal core and see if its better as i was not seeing much at all on the emf... this explains why. i think...

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: waterfreak on April 3rd, 2012, 07:58 AM
Has anyone posted the circuit / pcb files for this yet so we can begin testing?
I may have missed it, but didn't see it.
Good stuff - keep up the good work!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on April 3rd, 2012, 08:35 PM
Quote from waterfreak on April 3rd, 2012, 07:58 AM
Has anyone posted the circuit / pcb files for this yet so we can begin testing?
I may have missed it, but didn't see it.
Good stuff - keep up the good work!
see first post. also tony had posted his work/boards thru out  out the thread: look it over again!! :) thanks ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 5th, 2012, 12:20 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM
Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM
Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )
Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.
Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!
Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.
Tony,sorry for late reply but i didn't have time,I want to say thank you again for the skematc i modify it from your skematic and works like a charm!I put the 4 freq outputs in my  soundcard input and saw the ''waves'' :)),now i'm working on a better pc soundcard osciloscope that buffers up to 150V:d,waiting for parts...Br.Ady
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on April 5th, 2012, 04:10 AM
Quote from adys15 on April 5th, 2012, 12:20 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM
Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM
Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )
Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.
Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!
Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.
Tony,sorry for late reply but i didn't have time,I want to say thank you again for the skematc i modify it from your skematic and works like a charm!I put the 4 freq outputs in my  soundcard input and saw the ''waves'' :)),now i'm working on a better pc soundcard osciloscope that buffers up to 150V:d,waiting for parts...Br.Ady
adys15, Could you post your complete schematic, now that you have it working.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 5th, 2012, 11:05 AM
[/quote]adys15, Could you post your complete schematic, now that you have it working.[/quote]Is the skematic Tony posted on page 8 , 8XA_Circuit_Production.pdf,is the same like yours but the pin on 7404 is diferent,I say is working just the 9xa circuit without the power transistor and coils,i have to decide what power transistor to(order) use...and then testing,as for the osciloscope http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3901-el-cheapo-oscilloscope-using-pc-soundcard.html ,Br,Ady
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 5th, 2012, 11:05 AM
[/quote]adys15, Could you post your complete schematic, now that you have it working.[/quote]Is the skematic Tony posted on page 8 , 8XA_Circuit_Production.pdf,is the same like yours but the pin on 7404 is diferent,I say is working just the 9xa circuit without the power transistor and coils,i have to decide what power transistor to(order) use...and then testing,as for the osciloscope http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3901-el-cheapo-oscilloscope-using-pc-soundcard ,Br,Ady
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 5th, 2012, 11:06 AM
[/quote]adys15, Could you post your complete schematic, now that you have it working.[/quote]Is the skematic Tony posted on page 8 , 8XA_Circuit_Production.pdf,is the same like yours but the pin on 7404 is diferent,I say is working just the 9xa circuit without the power transistor and coils,i have to decide what power transistor to(order) use...and then testing,as for the osciloscope is on energeticforum.com,search pc osciloscope ,Br,Ady
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 5th, 2012, 11:06 AM
[/quote]adys15, Could you post your complete schematic, now that you have it working.[/quote]Is the skematic Tony posted on page 8 , 8XA_Circuit_Production,is the same like yours but the pin on 7404 is diferent,I say is working just the 9xa circuit without the power transistor and coils,i have to decide what power transistor to(order) use...and then testing,as for the osciloscope is on energeticforum,search pc osciloscope ,Br,Ady
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Dwiman89 on April 5th, 2012, 03:04 PM
Anybody seen this? it seems to be a very simple looking circuit to do the same thing as the VIC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l1PfmTheFM&feature=related

I doubt its legitimacy but I wanted to share and let you guys ponder on it.  
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: gpssonar on April 5th, 2012, 04:44 PM
I built this a couple years back and it works as shown. I bought the pdf. files from him. Just havent had the time to try to scale it up. If you build this, It has to have a load hooked to it befor you turn it on or it will fry your transistor. Just a word of caution. Other than that it works great.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: waterfreak on April 6th, 2012, 01:52 PM
Quote from gpssonar on April 5th, 2012, 04:44 PM
I built this a couple years back and it works as shown. I bought the pdf. files from him. Just havent had the time to try to scale it up. If you build this, It has to have a load hooked to it befor you turn it on or it will fry your transistor. Just a word of caution. Other than that it works great.
I can confirm this.
I too bought this circuit a few years back, and it does work.
You do not get a tremendous amount of gas with it, unless you crank the voltage up to around 30V. Then, you need a larger diameter wire for the bifilar coil.
Scaling it up may offer more options, but it isn't as easy as it looks...
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: andy on April 7th, 2012, 04:13 AM
Quote from waterfreak on April 6th, 2012, 01:52 PM
Quote from gpssonar on April 5th, 2012, 04:44 PM
I built this a couple years back and it works as shown. I bought the pdf. files from him. Just havent had the time to try to scale it up. If you build this, It has to have a load hooked to it befor you turn it on or it will fry your transistor. Just a word of caution. Other than that it works great.
I can confirm this.
I too bought this circuit a few years back, and it does work.
You do not get a tremendous amount of gas with it, unless you crank the voltage up to around 30V. Then, you need a larger diameter wire for the bifilar coil.
Scaling it up may offer more options, but it isn't as easy as it looks...
Hi waterfreak
Can you post schematic of this circuit for testing please?
thank andy


Quote from Webmug on March 29th, 2012, 07:44 AM
Hi,

More to think about how the chokes are designed.

"The pulse (chokes UNIPOLAR) and charge status of the water/capacitor never pass through an arbitrary ground."
So he said it! Critically damped :exclamation:

If this is true then there is no choke coil oscillation! No frequency!
When we have no frequency we have UNIPOLAR PULSE.
But we can charge them up with a pump frequency !

If we want to design a choke to comply with these specs, we must have high resistance. What he said about making use of the dielectric properties of water, there is resistance between the plates a gap size. Lookup the variable plate WFC.

On the injectors WFC there is little resistance so he build large resistance choke coils to satisfy the design rule making UNIPOLAR pulse. I guess charging the choke requires higher pump frequency to get higher kV voltages.

Also the WFC capacitance is important because we have different water types in it.
This effects the capacitance. I think he designed the chokes for a few water types but not all. Tap water is higher in capacitance then Rain water, so
the RLC is adjusted for it.

For the square bobbin VIC transformer type he makes use of the fixed gap size (resistance) in the RLC circuit. Combine this with the choke coils R.

Example:
L=1.22H, C=15.7nF, we need R=17.5kOhm to get UNIPOLAR PULSE.

I need more feedback on this, let me know what you think :exclamation:

Br,
Webmug
Hi Webmug
Does the resistance R must be in the choke coil ( resistive wire coil ? ) , or can we  connect simple resistor R in between the copper wire choke coil  and water capacitor ? To comply with these specs.
Thank for answer
andy
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on April 7th, 2012, 05:41 AM
The choke coils serve many different purposes and here are the main 3:
1) To increase voltage of secondary to higher voltages.
2) To give opposite polarity voltage on the outputs.
3) To act as a resistive element (XL) without having a voltage drop like you would have with a resistor.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on April 7th, 2012, 05:46 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 7th, 2012, 05:41 AM
The choke coils serve many different purposes and here are the main 3:
1) To increase voltage of secondary to higher voltages.
2) To give opposite polarity voltage on the outputs.
3) To act as a resistive element (XL) without having a voltage drop like you would have with a resistor.
Thanks Tony, this helps tremendously.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 8th, 2012, 01:24 AM
Russ i want to ask you something.Who wrote the parts values on skematics that i found in Stan estate photos?Don or you?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on April 8th, 2012, 01:35 AM
Quote from adys15 on April 8th, 2012, 01:24 AM
Russ i want to ask you something.Who wrote the parts values on skematics that i found in Stan estate photos?Don or you?
Don wrote in all the values
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 8th, 2012, 02:32 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 8th, 2012, 01:35 AM
Quote from adys15 on April 8th, 2012, 01:24 AM
Russ i want to ask you something.Who wrote the parts values on skematics that i found in Stan estate photos?Don or you?
Don wrote in all the values
Thanks Tony,tomorow i will buy all the components and wanted to be sure i'm buying the corect values,i fount all comp,exept the darn 74122:( ,BTW Tony I want to build every circuit on it's own board,do you happen to have saparated circuit schematics,if not i have to start from scratch  with my own design pcb...and is verry time consuming...Br,Ady
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: pakakezu on April 8th, 2012, 09:32 AM
Hello for everybody. I have a question, especially for Tony, but everyone's help is useful.  I modified my old setup after Tony`s released schematic. A picture attached. Instead of cell setup I connected a 3nF cap parallel to the secondary. The circuit scans and locks in. Now i`m using as feedback on of chokes because the feedback winded over the primary is useless. The picked up phase  never shifts from the input signal.

The issue is whit the gating. If I apply any gating signal the loop unlocks and tries to scan again, but hopeless.  I don`t really understand how this part needs to work, and why is needed to be feed back the signal from primary to inhibit pin when is gate off time.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on April 9th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Quote from pakakezu on April 8th, 2012, 09:32 AM
Hello for everybody. I have a question, especially for Tony, but everyone's help is useful.  I modified my old setup after Tony`s released schematic. A picture attached. Instead of cell setup I connected a 3nF cap parallel to the secondary. The circuit scans and locks in. Now i`m using as feedback on of chokes because the feedback winded over the primary is useless. The picked up phase  never shifts from the input signal.

The issue is whit the gating. If I apply any gating signal the loop unlocks and tries to scan again, but hopeless.  I don`t really understand how this part needs to work, and why is needed to be feed back the signal from primary to inhibit pin when is gate off time.
OK not sure what schematics you used but if you look at the PDF in the first post of this thread and go to page 5. There you see the gating signal comming in from A, pin 11 of the second nor (U3D) goes to the inhibit pin 5 on the 4046. Pin 3 is connected to the primary signal which is the input to the 4046 comparator together with the feedback signal of pin 14. The inhibit is only enabled when there is signal on the output pin 4 because this also goes back to pin 12 of the gating signal nor. So primairy signal needs to be connected to pin 3 and inhibit (gating) signal to pin 5.

Hope this helps ...  
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: pakakezu on April 9th, 2012, 01:19 PM
Quote from Sharky on April 9th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Quote from pakakezu on April 8th, 2012, 09:32 AM
Hello for everybody. I have a question, especially for Tony, but everyone's help is useful.  I modified my old setup after Tony`s released schematic. A picture attached. Instead of cell setup I connected a 3nF cap parallel to the secondary. The circuit scans and locks in. Now i`m using as feedback on of chokes because the feedback winded over the primary is useless. The picked up phase  never shifts from the input signal.

The issue is whit the gating. If I apply any gating signal the loop unlocks and tries to scan again, but hopeless.  I don`t really understand how this part needs to work, and why is needed to be feed back the signal from primary to inhibit pin when is gate off time.
OK not sure what schematics you used but if you look at the PDF in the first post of this thread and go to page 5. There you see the gating signal comming in from A, pin 11 of the second nor (U3D) goes to the inhibit pin 5 on the 4046. Pin 3 is connected to the primary signal which is the input to the 4046 comparator together with the feedback signal of pin 14. The inhibit is only enabled when there is signal on the output pin 4 because this also goes back to pin 12 of the gating signal nor. So primairy signal needs to be connected to pin 3 and inhibit (gating) signal to pin 5.

Hope this helps ...
Yep it is connected exactly in this way. But when its coming a pulse off time, so the output needs to be off. The IC unlocks, and when is pulse on time comes again, continues whit scanning, but the pulse one time is to short to lock in again.  So my first question can be: what is the aprox. gating frequency?  

In my opinion the optimal solution wold be to hold the last locked freq until the next pulse on time, but the working mode of PLL is not in this way.
I clearly see the the need of pulse off time. It prevents the magnetization of the core  and waits some gas to leave the "resonant cavity".

Do you managed the gating to work perfectly? Ex. 5 pulses on resonant freq. 4 pulses break, 5 pulses again on resonant freq.? I`m looking in this way, but until now I got just the lock in. (I`m really happy whit it, but not enough to step forward).
P.S. Sorry for horrible English.  
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: andy on April 9th, 2012, 11:35 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 29th, 2012, 02:27 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 29th, 2012, 11:37 AM
Sharky.can i use 74LS123 IC for gated pulse gen, i cant find 74LS122 .Btw in the gated pulse gen original pcb there are 7IC's not 5 like in the patents,and your skematics!!!
This is a nice little circuit I came up with that outputs a adjustable triangle signal that can be inputted to the 4046. It has amplitude, frequency, and extended frequency capabilities.

Based on my calculations, the scan-time can be extended to as low as 0.0859 Hz (11.65 sec.). R3 = 5k, R4 = 100k, C1 = 10uF
Tony
I build this circuit and it not working for me. Maybe i do some wrong.
I want ask - You test it only in simulator , or build also in reality ? Is it worked for You? I have only one IC for test maybe is bad . Must wait to buy more.
I use LM 358 - it have two op. amp inside. Very litte circuit.
Thank Tony
andy

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on April 10th, 2012, 03:11 AM
Quote
So my first question can be: what is the aprox. gating frequency?
theoretically... it should be tuned to give you the best results... so the cap should charge to its max then gating should take over... and step charge again...  once the cap is maxed out... you want it to rest again. if you dont step charge you wont see the polarizing stage taking place correctly... this is what i'm gathering from my research. there is things that happen when you let the cap go back to a rest state. but again... this is with water... your cap really dont work the same. ???

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: pakakezu on April 10th, 2012, 03:37 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 10th, 2012, 03:11 AM
... your cap really dont work the same. ???
~Russ
I`m sure it will work the same. Now i`m trying a simple LC resonance without diode. I experimented whit diode and the resonance occurs there too, but is easier to measure at a simple LC.

  But, the step charging needs to take place at resonant freq. Correct? But at the pulse off time the PLL loses the resonant freq so need to tune in again. This is extra time, and this time is random, because the pulse on can came different states of scanning level.
So my issue here is: Only my circuit has this problem (loses the resonant freq at pulse off) or its a general problem coming from design? If it is a general issue I have ideas to solve it.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 10th, 2012, 02:29 PM
Can you guys tell me what kind of caps are those ?polyester,ceramic?does it mater the type?see att
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: securesupplies on April 17th, 2012, 11:27 AM
attached

Dan
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: pakakezu on April 17th, 2012, 12:10 PM
I want to suggest one more type of inductance measuring. Witch is important at any type of transformer, especially on special transformers like the VIC.
That value is the parasite inductance, or inductance coupling. When the inductance of a coil is measured while the other coil is short circuited, the inductance will be lower from the original, and the drop value represents the magnetic coupling within the two coils.
Those values are almost the most important, and sadly weren't measured on the original VIC.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 17th, 2012, 02:09 PM
Can you guys tell me what kind of caps are those ?polyester,ceramic?does it mater the type?see att
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on April 17th, 2012, 09:22 PM
Quote from pakakezu on April 17th, 2012, 12:10 PM
I want to suggest one more type of inductance measuring. Witch is important at any type of transformer, especially on special transformers like the VIC.
That value is the parasite inductance, or inductance coupling. When the inductance of a coil is measured while the other coil is short circuited, the inductance will be lower from the original, and the drop value represents the magnetic coupling within the two coils.
Those values are almost the most important, and sadly weren't measured on the original VIC.
yes, we have those measurement on the 5 coil VIC???

see the tab in the bottom, stated "on core,closed "

thanks, ~Russ

PS. I will also do the same for the measurements i take.  
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 18th, 2012, 07:18 PM
common guys help me with those caps,nobody knows?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on April 18th, 2012, 07:27 PM
Quote from adys15 on April 18th, 2012, 07:18 PM
common guys help me with those caps,nobody knows?
I don't know, PM Tony, if any one would know he would.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on April 18th, 2012, 11:41 PM
Quote from adys15 on April 18th, 2012, 07:18 PM
common guys help me with those caps,nobody knows?
It is not important if you use ceramic or polyester capacitors, their only difference is the way they are constructed, not the way they will function in your circuits. The only thing you need to take into account is if you use polarized or non-polarized caps.  Some like the 10uF pulse indicator cap and the 100nF between pin 6 and 7 of the 4046 must be non-polarized. If you compare several images of different vic cards you will notice meyer also used different types of caps for the same positions.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on April 19th, 2012, 12:00 AM
Quote from Sharky on April 18th, 2012, 11:41 PM
Quote from adys15 on April 18th, 2012, 07:18 PM
common guys help me with those caps,nobody knows?
It is not important if you use ceramic or polyester capacitors, their only difference is the way they are constructed, not the way they will function in your circuits. The only thing you need to take into account is if you use polarized or non-polarized caps.  Some like the 10uF pulse indicator cap and the 100nF between pin 6 and 7 of the 4046 must be non-polarized. If you compare several images of different vic cards you will notice meyer also used different types of caps for the same positions.
The dark red/brown caps look like Mylar, the tan colored caps look like ceramic, and the yellow ones look like tantalum caps.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: securesupplies on April 19th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Thank you Tony ,

Your contributions are very helpful  to group as some of us are very mechanical

but just not as familiar with circuits side thank you,
interesting as,
as  we post,  others  reading the post and  than  spark comes on in the minds
 and respond with new info so it all helps it along well.

PLease check these out

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PUbnIC9T4fFCtiWzO80ulQ7TnptSzliGQcu8V3DHzOo/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SiPuaX_kvldohC_BSPG9Q8TLQQ1sa8AQby5PdsKd0kk/edit

Tony is it possible for you to post copies
of Schematics or pcb's for Vic 8xa or others in Gerber formats?

Kindest Regards
Daniel
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on April 19th, 2012, 10:59 PM
Quote from securesupplies on April 19th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Thank you Tony ,

Your contributions are very helpful  to group as some of use are very mechanical

but just not as familiar with circuits side thank you,
interesting as,
as  we post others  reading than  spark and respond with new info so it all helps it along well.

PLease check these out

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PUbnIC9T4fFCtiWzO80ulQ7TnptSzliGQcu8V3DHzOo/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SiPuaX_kvldohC_BSPG9Q8TLQQ1sa8AQby5PdsKd0kk/edit

Tony is it possible for you to post copies
of Schematics or pcb's for Vic 8xa or others in Gerber formats?

Kindest Regards
Daniel
Here's the 8XA and VIC circuits with Gerber Files for an Excellon machine.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: securesupplies on April 19th, 2012, 11:39 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 19th, 2012, 10:59 PM
Quote from securesupplies on April 19th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Thank you Tony ,

Your contributions are very helpful  to group as some of use are very mechanical

but just not as familiar with circuits side thank you,
interesting as,
as  we post others  reading than  spark and respond with new info so it all helps it along well.

PLease check these out

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PUbnIC9T4fFCtiWzO80ulQ7TnptSzliGQcu8V3DHzOo/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SiPuaX_kvldohC_BSPG9Q8TLQQ1sa8AQby5PdsKd0kk/edit

Tony is it possible for you to post copies
of Schematics or pcb's for Vic 8xa or others in Gerber formats?

Kindest Regards
Daniel
Here's the 8XA and VIC circuits with Gerber Files for an Excellon machine.
Thank you Tony.

This will help,

Here is my Email  
securesupplies@hotmail.com
danieldonatelli@hotmail.com
Mb + 66 899093178

which is best email for you
Daniel
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on April 20th, 2012, 12:26 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 19th, 2012, 12:00 AM
Quote from Sharky on April 18th, 2012, 11:41 PM
Quote from adys15 on April 18th, 2012, 07:18 PM
common guys help me with those caps,nobody knows?
It is not important if you use ceramic or polyester capacitors, their only difference is the way they are constructed, not the way they will function in your circuits. The only thing you need to take into account is if you use polarized or non-polarized caps.  Some like the 10uF pulse indicator cap and the 100nF between pin 6 and 7 of the 4046 must be non-polarized. If you compare several images of different vic cards you will notice meyer also used different types of caps for the same positions.
The dark red/brown caps look like Mylar, the tan colored caps look like ceramic, and the yellow ones look like tantalum caps.
Thanks Tony I also thought that way,but wasn't sure,Sharky,i notice that Stan used diferent tips of caps on his boards.and there is a diference :ceramic and tantalum are used in very high freq aplications,and polyester ones used in normal apps,the 100nF between pin 6 and 7 is poliester and by saying there is nonpolirized that means the rest of polyester caps on the board are polirized,i think all polyester's are non-polirized,and there is one more nonpolirized cap(10uF) between the 2and 6 pins of 741 on the scanner...see link http://edatasl.blogspot.com/2009/11/capacitors.html
Title: Daniel Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: securesupplies on April 21st, 2012, 05:56 AM
Member Tony and Sharky  Russ

Can we Post a Components  itemized Parts List
For Rustic , Vic , 8XA, alternator board or others like steam resonator board etc.  

or any others we have Schmatics traces done like
Gas Gun Cicuit, gas processor alternator circuit  etc .

Can we Make a more specific

PCB Design thread for each board
so it is focused on the rebuilder and on re building

 to keep it fast clean and simple that way we will
have faster uptake of rebuild trailing tech and giving feed back.

Straight up thread like

Vic PCB build
8xa PCB Build
alternator PCB build
Gas gun PCB
Gas Processor
rustic PCB build


Post in those threads

clear easy  Schematic/trace/ parts list /gerber/ jpg/ board layouts etc

so it becomes  fast and simple
 
as basic spec is cemented and firmed so these threads  
go to more viral status for trialing and user feed back at these threads.

So we can rebuild trail progress each design more agressively .

for  re builders to

give feed back on design performance and or improvements
or modifcations needed or learned for  updates to occur in those threads.

To progress tech to next level to finalize
and improve them  all to be functioning right on and progressive in advancing design

this will fuel the integration with other engine management systems more readily as other come on board.

such as Installers AND those familiar  ecu's reprogramming etc

Dan
Title: RE: Daniel Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Mechanic on April 21st, 2012, 09:24 AM
Quote from securesupplies on April 21st, 2012, 05:56 AM
Member Tony and Sharky  Russ

Can we Post a Components  itemized Parts List
For Rustic , Vic , 8XA, alternator board or others like steam resonator board etc.  

or any others we have Schmatics traces done like
Gas Gun Cicuit, gas processor alternator circuit  etc .

Can we Make a more specific

PCB Design thread for each board
so it is focused on the rebuilder and on re building

 to keep it fast clean and simple that way we will
have faster uptake of rebuild trailing tech and giving feed back.

Straight up thread like

Vic PCB build
8xa PCB Build
alternator PCB build
Gas gun PCB
Gas Processor
rustic PCB build


Post in those threads

clear easy  Schematic/trace/ parts list /gerber/ jpg/ board layouts etc

so it becomes  fast and simple
 
as basic spec is cemented and firmed so these threads  
go to more viral status for trialing and user feed back at these threads.

So we can rebuild trail progress each design more agressively .

for  re builders to

give feed back on design performance and or improvements
or modifcations needed or learned for  updates to occur in those threads.

To progress tech to next level to finalize
and improve them  all to be functioning right on and progressive in advancing design

this will fuel the integration with other engine management systems more readily as other come on board.

such as Installers AND those familiar  ecu's reprogramming etc

Dan
I second this...:D Good idea getting all this diffrent sections even more orginized...:cool: it will speed up the whole proses, especialy for us builders but even for the testers and designers.:P

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Title: RE: Daniel Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: KevinW_EnhancedLiving on April 21st, 2012, 09:43 AM
Quote from securesupplies on April 21st, 2012, 05:56 AM
Member Tony and Sharky  Russ

Can we Post a Components  itemized Parts List
For Rustic , Vic , 8XA, alternator board or others like steam resonator board etc.  

or any others we have Schmatics traces done like
Gas Gun Cicuit, gas processor alternator circuit  etc .

Can we Make a more specific

PCB Design thread for each board
so it is focused on the rebuilder and on re building

 to keep it fast clean and simple that way we will
have faster uptake of rebuild trailing tech and giving feed back.

Straight up thread like

Vic PCB build
8xa PCB Build
alternator PCB build
Gas gun PCB
Gas Processor
rustic PCB build


Post in those threads

clear easy  Schematic/trace/ parts list /gerber/ jpg/ board layouts etc

so it becomes  fast and simple
 
as basic spec is cemented and firmed so these threads  
go to more viral status for trialing and user feed back at these threads.

So we can rebuild trail progress each design more agressively .

for  re builders to

give feed back on design performance and or improvements
or modifcations needed or learned for  updates to occur in those threads.

To progress tech to next level to finalize
and improve them  all to be functioning right on and progressive in advancing design

this will fuel the integration with other engine management systems more readily as other come on board.

such as Installers AND those familiar  ecu's reprogramming etc

Dan
Some of these already  exist in the RWGResearch section

Vic PCB build
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&page=14(http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&page=14)
rustic PCB build
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=178(http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=178)
8xa PCB Build
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=393(http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=393)


This sounds like a good idea though,  Maybe this would be good in the "Open Source Projects Section?"
http://open-source-energy.org/?fid=47(http://open-source-energy.org/?fid=47)



Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: securesupplies on April 21st, 2012, 10:06 AM

OK We have  Thread for all versions

Russtic

Tony's

and in Progress

we need to put part lists on threads
with part numbers on each

and move to next stage quickly alot more work to do.

please post parts lists .,
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: paraipan on April 23rd, 2012, 02:03 PM
watching...
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on April 25th, 2012, 01:34 AM
Finally got the pcb's in today. They look really nice and the quality looks good. I uploaded the gerber/drill files to the first post which were used to have them produced. I hope to solder one of them this week to test it electronically. Happy moving forward again!!

I also think it is time to start a new thread VIC V2.0 where we can start working on an improved version. Now that we understand its workings we can start doing things better. The gating part for example is using a lot of components while that can be done with a lot less, the same goes for the resonant scanning part, i think it can be replaced with a few added components to the 4046.

Anyway, ... enjoy, it has been fun doing for me!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on April 25th, 2012, 02:11 AM
Quote from Sharky on April 25th, 2012, 01:34 AM
Finally got the pcb's in today. They look really nice and the quality looks good. I uploaded the gerber/drill files to the first post which were used to have them produced. I hope to solder one of them this week to test it electronically. Happy moving forward again!!

I also think it is time to start a new thread VIC V2.0 where we can start working on an improved version. Now that we understand its workings we can start doing things better. The gating part for example is using a lot of components while that can be done with a lot less, the same goes for the resonant scanning part, i think it can be replaced with a few added components to the 4046.

Anyway, ... enjoy, it has been fun doing for me!!
those look really nice!!! gold plating! :)

all, here is the new start to VIC V2.0

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=463

Thanks ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
Quote from Sharky on April 25th, 2012, 01:34 AM
Finally got the pcb's in today. They look really nice and the quality looks good. I uploaded the gerber/drill files to the first post which were used to have them produced. I hope to solder one of them this week to test it electronically. Happy moving forward again!!

I also think it is time to start a new thread VIC V2.0 where we can start working on an improved version. Now that we understand its workings we can start doing things better. The gating part for example is using a lot of components while that can be done with a lot less, the same goes for the resonant scanning part, i think it can be replaced with a few added components to the 4046.

Anyway, ... enjoy, it has been fun doing for me!!
Hi Sharky,

Looking good!

Questions: can you post a few scope shots of the following signals?
- scanner (triangle)
- pickup from opamp
- primary coil output (no coil connected)
- gating

Looks like your cell driver circuit gives lower current for the TIP120 than Stans.

What frequency did you use for the PLL circuit and scanner circuit.

What is the center frequency for the PLL to use to lock-on? (LPF)

How did you test this without a VIC on resonance?
Can you explain what function the SIG_PRIM has and why is it needed, because we have a pickup coil?

Thanks in advance, for answering my questions!

Best regards,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: securesupplies on April 25th, 2012, 11:43 AM
Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
Quote from Sharky on April 25th, 2012, 01:34 AM
Finally got the pcb's in today. They look really nice and the quality looks good. I uploaded the gerber/drill files to the first post which were used to have them produced. I hope to solder one of them this week to test it electronically. Happy moving forward again!!

I also think it is time to start a new thread VIC V2.0 where we can start working on an improved version. Now that we understand its workings we can start doing things better. The gating part for example is using a lot of components while that can be done with a lot less, the same goes for the resonant scanning part, i think it can be replaced with a few added components to the 4046.

Anyway, ... enjoy, it has been fun doing for me!!
Hi Sharky,

Looking good!

Questions: can you post a few scope shots of the following signals?
- scanner (triangle)
- pickup from opamp
- primary coil output (no coil connected)
- gating

Looks like your cell driver circuit gives lower current for the TIP120 than Stans.

What frequency did you use for the PLL circuit and scanner circuit.

What is the center frequency for the PLL to use to lock-on? (LPF)

How did you test this without a VIC on resonance?
Can you explain what function the SIG_PRIM has and why is it needed, because we have a pickup coil?

Thanks in advance, for answering my questions!

Best regards,
Webmug
aYes Very Nice   boards  like the bit about the caps also  
 can you post the schematics and gerber to new 2.0 thread please sharky.

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on April 26th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 26th, 2012, 11:28 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 26th, 2012, 10:12 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 26th, 2012, 08:27 AM
Also. I think i want to redue the adjustable power schmatic. It will get more complacated but that's ok. I don't like the way it is now.

Webmug,

Can you post your schmatic of what you have done with this part of the schmatic.

I know your using a sig gen to get the duty cycle but we will use a 555 timer or somthing in the final set...

Thanks all! ~Russ
Yes, you can do this also. Takes a couple of more components. :) It works in combination with the "cell driver circuit".

The input J should have a adjustable duty cycle DU pulse 0 to 5V and frequency about 1kHz. This 1 to 99% DU controls the voltage amplitude.
You can do this with a 555 timer instead of a signal generator.

Offset is the min. voltage amplitude on the primary coil and gain the time it takes to go to max voltage amplitude, when you set it to 1%

This voltage amplitude control has a useful function, because it adjust the voltage "analog" and not in increment steps what disturbs the voltage.

I have problems keeping the DU signal 50% from the "cell driver circuit" when the PLL adjust frequency (scanner). 31 to 42% This is very important because this 50% gives us perfect resonance and is picked-up at the pickup- coil where the PLL locks-on.

I tested the pickup circuit with a AC signal from my signal generator going into the pickup circuit. I have pulse from the opamp in phase with the AC voltage, but it has a lot of noise in/on it. The lock-on circuit response on this is not good!:huh:

In my video you can see the scanner active (yellow) and the pickup pulse(blue) from the AC voltage from signal generator at 2kHz.

I want the PLL to lock-on the AC voltage. (pickup coil simulation)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRYf8nZ2Qt8

Br,
Webmug
Good work, the feed back signail is a square wave. Not a sign wave, so try the square wave. Seems everyone has that sig gen! Lol I find that funny! It's a good one! But my Chanel one is out! Hope the warrantee is good...

Thanks
~Russ
Hi,

I'm testing my driver circuit again...:cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf_r8j_ViWQ

First yellow signal is from the TIP120 transistor.
Then the yellow signal is from the PLL and the blue one is pickup from the TIP120 (primary connection tap) scanner active.

There is a 2N3906 transistor Q8 (Fig.5 WO 92/07861) that altered the duty cycle 50% from the PLL to 36% from the collector pin.

Could be a damaged transistor or resistors have wrong values, should I replace it?

Any ideas how to solve this?

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on April 27th, 2012, 08:18 AM
Hi,

Need help!

Did someone test the driver circuit properly?

I can't get it to work, no signal at Pin#7 !!!:huh:
With the resistor values from Dynodon I can not get it to work.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Gunther Rattay on April 27th, 2012, 09:20 AM
Quote from Webmug on April 27th, 2012, 08:18 AM
Hi,

Need help!

Did someone test the driver circuit properly?

I can't get it to work, no signal at Pin#7 !!!:huh:
With the resistor values from Dynodon I can not get it to work.

Br,
Webmug
No, I have not tested the circuit. What I can tell you is that you have to trace the pulse train from left to right. each transistor/darlington must be biased properly. this is the case when pulse train propagates thru the transistor stage.

one resistor labeled N/A may be the candidate for trouble in your circuit.

the whole circuit is too complex without need. state of the art components with Mosfet and driver would make no problems at all. there is no need to replicate 20 years old circuity when there are modern alternatives ...

Quote from Webmug on April 26th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 26th, 2012, 11:28 AM
Quote from Webmug on March 26th, 2012, 10:12 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 26th, 2012, 08:27 AM
Also. I think i want to redue the adjustable power schmatic. It will get more complacated but that's ok. I don't like the way it is now.

Webmug,

Can you post your schmatic of what you have done with this part of the schmatic.

I know your using a sig gen to get the duty cycle but we will use a 555 timer or somthing in the final set...

Thanks all! ~Russ
Yes, you can do this also. Takes a couple of more components. :) It works in combination with the "cell driver circuit".

The input J should have a adjustable duty cycle DU pulse 0 to 5V and frequency about 1kHz. This 1 to 99% DU controls the voltage amplitude.
You can do this with a 555 timer instead of a signal generator.

Offset is the min. voltage amplitude on the primary coil and gain the time it takes to go to max voltage amplitude, when you set it to 1%

This voltage amplitude control has a useful function, because it adjust the voltage "analog" and not in increment steps what disturbs the voltage.

I have problems keeping the DU signal 50% from the "cell driver circuit" when the PLL adjust frequency (scanner). 31 to 42% This is very important because this 50% gives us perfect resonance and is picked-up at the pickup- coil where the PLL locks-on.

I tested the pickup circuit with a AC signal from my signal generator going into the pickup circuit. I have pulse from the opamp in phase with the AC voltage, but it has a lot of noise in/on it. The lock-on circuit response on this is not good!:huh:

In my video you can see the scanner active (yellow) and the pickup pulse(blue) from the AC voltage from signal generator at 2kHz.

I want the PLL to lock-on the AC voltage. (pickup coil simulation)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRYf8nZ2Qt8

Br,
Webmug
Good work, the feed back signail is a square wave. Not a sign wave, so try the square wave. Seems everyone has that sig gen! Lol I find that funny! It's a good one! But my Chanel one is out! Hope the warrantee is good...

Thanks
~Russ
Hi,

I'm testing my driver circuit again...:cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf_r8j_ViWQ

First yellow signal is from the TIP120 transistor.
Then the yellow signal is from the PLL and the blue one is pickup from the TIP120 (primary connection tap) scanner active.

There is a 2N3906 transistor Q8 (Fig.5 WO 92/07861) that altered the duty cycle 50% from the PLL to 36% from the collector pin.

Could be a damaged transistor or resistors have wrong values, should I replace it?

Any ideas how to solve this?

Br,
Webmug
change in duty cycle may be due to wrong bias for Q8. so it´s base resistors seem to be wrong values.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on April 27th, 2012, 09:44 AM
Quote from bussi04 on April 27th, 2012, 09:20 AM
Quote from Webmug on April 27th, 2012, 08:18 AM
Hi,

Need help!

Did someone test the driver circuit properly?

I can't get it to work, no signal at Pin#7 !!!:huh:
With the resistor values from Dynodon I can not get it to work.

Br,
Webmug
No, I have not tested the circuit. What I can tell you is that you have to trace the pulse train from left to right. each transistor/darlington must be biased properly. this is the case when pulse train propagates thru the transistor stage.

one resistor labeled N/A may be the candidate for trouble in your circuit.

the whole circuit is too complex without need. state of the art components with Mosfet and driver would make no problems at all. there is no need to replicate 20 years old circuity when there are modern alternatives ...
Hi bussi04,

Yes, trace left to right...:)

I'm not going to argue with you and others on this 20 years old circuity question.:D

I feel sorry for all the persons who change the specs or components and think it's better and still want to replicate the electronic circuit workings and later complain about none or different working circuits... and wonder why it won't work!!!!

Best thing to do is stick to the exact specifications from Stan his original VIC circuit.

If we have this working, then we can improve the circuit.
Sure it can be all done in a micro controller!

My question is how this circuit works and it has to do with the bias settings at the transistors...

The primary coil wire (30 AWG) should not get high current so the input to the base of the TIP120 should be biased on a maximum.

Stan used a 2N2222 (Ic 800 mA) and two 2N3906 (Ic 200 mA) transistors. The 4046 PLL is powered by 12V and pulsing at the resistor input network to the base of the 2N3906 (emitter 12V) etc.

One resistor labeled N/A was not connected in the VIC circuit pcb.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Gunther Rattay on April 27th, 2012, 11:43 AM
Quote from Webmug on April 27th, 2012, 09:44 AM
Quote from bussi04 on April 27th, 2012, 09:20 AM
Quote from Webmug on April 27th, 2012, 08:18 AM
Hi,

Need help!

Did someone test the driver circuit properly?

I can't get it to work, no signal at Pin#7 !!!:huh:
With the resistor values from Dynodon I can not get it to work.

Br,
Webmug
No, I have not tested the circuit. What I can tell you is that you have to trace the pulse train from left to right. each transistor/darlington must be biased properly. this is the case when pulse train propagates thru the transistor stage.

one resistor labeled N/A may be the candidate for trouble in your circuit.

the whole circuit is too complex without need. state of the art components with Mosfet and driver would make no problems at all. there is no need to replicate 20 years old circuity when there are modern alternatives ...
Hi bussi04,

Yes, trace left to right...:)

I'm not going to argue with you and others on this 20 years old circuity question.:D

I feel sorry for all the persons who change the specs or components and think it's better and still want to replicate the electronic circuit workings and later complain about none or different working circuits... and wonder why it won't work!!!!

Best thing to do is stick to the exact specifications from Stan his original VIC circuit.

If we have this working, then we can improve the circuit.
Sure it can be all done in a micro controller!

My question is how this circuit works and it has to do with the bias settings at the transistors...

The primary coil wire (30 AWG) should not get high current so the input to the base of the TIP120 should be biased on a maximum.

Stan used a 2N2222 (Ic 800 mA) and two 2N3906 (Ic 200 mA) transistors. The 4046 PLL is powered by 12V and pulsing at the resistor input network to the base of the 2N3906 (emitter 12V) etc.

One resistor labeled N/A was not connected in the VIC circuit pcb.

Br,
Webmug
I also will not argue about that. I only want to show an easier way going ...

why?
those transistor chains must be calculated by datasheet parameters for a given supply voltage. amp factor and base current issues for the specific transistor let you then calculate proper bias for each individual transistor. a transistor can be used in switching mode or in analog amplification mode. wrong calculations will lead to heating up the device.changes in supply voltage needs to recalculate the values.
 
if nobody here can properly calculate the resistance values for transistors needed you should not use those components. for sure Stan Meyer had them calculated correctly and therefore working as designed.

using present digital components is much easier because there is little need for those calculations. but to calculate i.e. RC stages used in Meyers design needs them be calculated. otherwise there is no frequency to voltage conversion as done in Meyer´s devices.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on April 27th, 2012, 12:02 PM
Quote from bussi04 on April 27th, 2012, 11:43 AM
I also will not argue about that. I only want to show an easier way going ...

why?
those transistor chains must be calculated by datasheet parameters for a given supply voltage. amp factor and base current issues for the specific transistor let you then calculate proper bias for each individual transistor. a transistor can be used in switching mode or in analog amplification mode. wrong calculations will lead to heating up the device.changes in supply voltage needs to recalculate the values.
 
if nobody here can properly calculate the resistance values for transistors needed you should not use those components. for sure Stan Meyer had them calculated correctly and therefore working as designed.

using present digital components is much easier because there is little need for those calculations. but to calculate i.e. RC stages used in Meyers design needs them be calculated. otherwise there is no frequency to voltage conversion as done in Meyer´s devices.
I like a challenge, didn't say it would be easy to get it to work! :D

Why not use those components?
I think the transistors are biased in the "On saturate state".

Supply voltage is regulated.
All the component specs are in the data sheets available.

Just wanted to know if someone had tested this driver circuit properly!

Thanks for the reply!

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on April 27th, 2012, 01:09 PM
Hi,

If someone want to help calculating the resistors values, setting them in "on saturate state" check this link.
http://www.ermicro.com/blog/?p=423

DATASHEETS

Keep the power supply 12V for all components and use approximately 12V for TIP120 input (should also be adjustable 1V to 12V) and 220ohms resistor parallel to the primary coil (10.5ohms).

TIP120
http://www.learn-c.com/tip120.pdf

CD4046
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd4046b.pdf

2N3906
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/2N3906-D.PDF

2N3904
http://www.oup.com/us/pdf/microcircuits/students/bjt/2n3904-st.pdf

equivalent to

2N2222
http://www.stanford.edu/class/ee133/datasheets/2n2222.pdf

Check for: Vce(sat), Vbe(sat), hFE
Not all manufactures have the same voltages!
For most transistors in general we can use Vbe = 0.7 Volt (should be saturate) and Vce = 0 Volt.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: securesupplies on April 27th, 2012, 01:23 PM
very interesting post thank you , this will help

Dan
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on April 27th, 2012, 01:33 PM
Quote from securesupplies on April 27th, 2012, 01:23 PM
very interesting post thank you , this will help

Dan
Hi securesupplies,

Yes, as we can see using the same type of transistor doesn't mean it works!

We must check the manufacturer specs for the type used and calculate the resistors for it.

You can not use all manufacturer types for this driver circuit.
Should do the same for other components.

Br,
Webmug

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on April 30th, 2012, 01:19 PM
Hi Russ,

Since you now also have a TonyWoodside PCB:) can you test the output with parallel a 220 ohm resistor connected to the TIP120 transistor and check the 50% DU cycle on your scope. Use 12V for powering the TIP120 and PCB.

I can't make it work at 50% (yet):cool:

Best regards,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: geenee on April 30th, 2012, 01:57 PM
i think"use signal generator from computer"

use this program "Visual Analyser 2011" search from internet make sound card to oscilloscope and signal generator

connect to mosfer or pass optocoupler through mosfet

it can make perfect 50/50 duty and frequency about 0-15khz

or below i attached
lmc555 cmos timer can make HF to 3 MHZ

Br,
geenee
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Gunther Rattay on April 30th, 2012, 03:33 PM
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 19th, 2012, 10:59 PM
Quote from securesupplies on April 19th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Thank you Tony ,

Your contributions are very helpful  to group as some of use are very mechanical

but just not as familiar with circuits side thank you,
interesting as,
as  we post others  reading than  spark and respond with new info so it all helps it along well.

PLease check these out

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PUbnIC9T4fFCtiWzO80ulQ7TnptSzliGQcu8V3DHzOo/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SiPuaX_kvldohC_BSPG9Q8TLQQ1sa8AQby5PdsKd0kk/edit

Tony is it possible for you to post copies
of Schematics or pcb's for Vic 8xa or others in Gerber formats?

Kindest Regards
Daniel
Here's the 8XA and VIC circuits with Gerber Files for an Excellon machine.
Hi Tony,

KiCad can´t show the circuit diagrams. What software can show the circuit diagram?

Thanks,

bussi04
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on April 30th, 2012, 11:14 PM
Quote from Webmug on April 30th, 2012, 01:19 PM
Hi Russ,

Since you now also have a TonyWoodside PCB:) can you test the output with parallel a 220 ohm resistor connected to the TIP120 transistor and check the 50% DU cycle on your scope. Use 12V for powering the TIP120 and PCB.

I can't make it work at 50% (yet):cool:

Best regards,
Webmug
will do. ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on May 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM
Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
Questions: can you post a few scope shots of the following signals?
- scanner (triangle)
- pickup from opamp
- primary coil output (no coil connected)
- gating
I am almost finished soldering the pcb, as soon as i have the time to do some tests i will make the requested scope shots.
Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
Looks like your cell driver circuit gives lower current for the TIP120 than Stans.
Yes that is correct, i could not get the original Meyer cell driver to work. With a primary coil of about 10.5 ohms resistance the maximum current that will flow will be arround 1.1 amps. I found the current driver being able to supply that.
Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
What frequency did you use for the PLL circuit and scanner circuit.

What is the center frequency for the PLL to use to lock-on? (LPF)
PLL range was from 200Hz to arround 5200Hz, i do not recall the exact center frequency, since i do not have it on the breadboard anymore i can not check it currently, will do when the pcb is soldered.
Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
How did you test this without a VIC on resonance?
With a known square wave frequency at the feedback input signal (from a frequency generator)
Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
Can you explain what function the SIG_PRIM has and why is it needed, because we have a pickup coil?
It is the signal that is fed back into the pll comparator. The PLL does not automatically compare the vco output at pin 4 with the reference (feedback coil) signal at pin 14. For that you either connect pin 4 directly to pin 3 or as in this case the signal from the point where it is fed into the primairy coil to pin3, ... any delays in intermediate components will then propagate back to the pll, the signal between pin 4 of the pll and SIG_PRIM is not exactly the same but is the one you want the pll to compare against.

About your 50% duty cycle question, ... what are you using as a power source, is that a battery or regulated power supply? I found that strange things can happen if timers or the pll are not connected to a stable voltage, that is also why meyer uses 10V because that is the highest stable voltage you can get from a 12V car battery.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on May 2nd, 2012, 04:14 AM
Finished soldering the board, found two errors. First is a missing trace on the pcb from pin 11 of the 4046 to resistor r17. The second is the PWR trace. I made
the BATT trace wider because it has to carry more current but the same is
the case with the PWR trace and that one is not wide so i am not sure if it
can handle 1 or 2 amps like it is. In the next version of the pcb i will correct these. Connecting it shows it working as on the breadboard, now i need to make a vic transformer that has a resonance frequency within the range of this version (200Hz - 5000Hz).
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Muxar on May 2nd, 2012, 12:59 PM
Awesome man!!
You have done an amazing work!!
thanks for sharing!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 2nd, 2012, 01:19 PM
Quote from Sharky on May 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM
Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
Questions: can you post a few scope shots of the following signals?
- scanner (triangle)
- pickup from opamp
- primary coil output (no coil connected)
- gating
I am almost finished soldering the pcb, as soon as i have the time to do some tests i will make the requested scope shots.
Great!
Quote from Sharky on May 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM
Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
Looks like your cell driver circuit gives lower current for the TIP120 than Stans.
Yes that is correct, i could not get the original Meyer cell driver to work. With a primary coil of about 10.5 ohms resistance the maximum current that will flow will be arround 1.1 amps. I found the current driver being able to supply that.
Yes, correct. 1.1Amps at 10.5ohms. The 220ohms 2Watts resistor is needed.
So you also can't make it work? What where your problems?
Transistors should be in on saturate mode. Should also work on 12 or 10Volts.
I want this circuit to work ala meyers. :P
Quote from Sharky on May 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM
Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
What frequency did you use for the PLL circuit and scanner circuit.

What is the center frequency for the PLL to use to lock-on? (LPF)
PLL range was from 200Hz to arround 5200Hz, i do not recall the exact center frequency, since i do not have it on the breadboard anymore i can not check it currently, will do when the pcb is soldered.
I guess 2.13kHz to 3.15kHz. (27kohm,4k7ohms,10nF)
Quote from Sharky on May 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM
Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
How did you test this without a VIC on resonance?
With a known square wave frequency at the feedback input signal (from a frequency generator)
Sine wave (resonance coil) on the pickup (op-amp makes it square pulse)
Quote from Sharky on May 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM
Quote from Webmug on April 25th, 2012, 05:58 AM
Can you explain what function the SIG_PRIM has and why is it needed, because we have a pickup coil?
It is the signal that is fed back into the pll comparator. The PLL does not automatically compare the vco output at pin 4 with the reference (feedback coil) signal at pin 14. For that you either connect pin 4 directly to pin 3 or as in this case the signal from the point where it is fed into the primairy coil to pin3, ... any delays in intermediate components will then propagate back to the pll, the signal between pin 4 of the pll and SIG_PRIM is not exactly the same but is the one you want the pll to compare against.

About your 50% duty cycle question, ... what are you using as a power source, is that a battery or regulated power supply? I found that strange things can happen if timers or the pll are not connected to a stable voltage, that is also why meyer uses 10V because that is the highest stable voltage you can get from a 12V car battery.
I use a LAB REGULATED POWER SUPPLY and 7812 regulator and caps at the output from my regulator. So should be stable enough. :D

Good work on the circuit and PCB!!!!
TIP: You should build the GAIN and OFFSET circuit for the voltage amplitude control circuit and a 555 1kHz 1-99% DU on the next v1.1 pcb version!!!

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: TonyWoodside on May 2nd, 2012, 09:14 PM
one thing I can tell you about the PLL and the 4017's is that ONLY the PLL 4046 chip will output a 50%, the 4017's will NOT output a 50% pulse. This could be why Stan didn't have the 4017's connected on his VIC cards.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on May 3rd, 2012, 03:37 AM
yeah! all done except 33nf caps... i really think i was using 330pf for all of them on my bred board... lol ah well....

here is it thanks to sarky and everyone!

[attachment=1368]
[attachment=1369]
[attachment=1370]
[attachment=1371]

I cant believe that this VIC circuit is in my hands... :) ... cool! now if it works ... hahha

a lot of dedication and time spent here on theses replications and i want to say thanks to everyone!!! God Bless!!!!! a lot of team work, and for most, a lot of faith... we will get there!

blessings!

~Russ

PS... those 3 prong and 2 prong connecters are recycled PC fans... :P just a little trick i call Use Your Resources! LOL
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on May 3rd, 2012, 04:05 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 3rd, 2012, 03:37 AM
yeah! all done except 33nf caps... i really think i was using 330pf for all of them on my bred board... lol ah well....

here is it thanks to sarky and everyone!






I cant believe that this VIC circuit is in my hands... :) ... cool! now if it works ... hahha

a lot of dedication and time spent here on theses replications and i want to say thanks to everyone!!! God Bless!!!!! a lot of team work, and for most, a lot of faith... we will get there!

blessings!

~Russ

PS... those 3 prong and 2 prong connecters are recycled PC fans... :P just a little trick i call Use Your Resources! LOL
awesome good job !!!congratulations you guys for the board,where i can find the pcb design?:d,keep the good work

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: geenee on May 3rd, 2012, 04:56 AM
Russ
awesome work
cheer!!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on May 3rd, 2012, 08:41 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 3rd, 2012, 04:05 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 3rd, 2012, 03:37 AM
yeah! all done except 33nf caps... i really think i was using 330pf for all of them on my bred board... lol ah well....

here is it thanks to sarky and everyone!






I cant believe that this VIC circuit is in my hands... :) ... cool! now if it works ... hahha

a lot of dedication and time spent here on theses replications and i want to say thanks to everyone!!! God Bless!!!!! a lot of team work, and for most, a lot of faith... we will get there!

blessings!

~Russ

PS... those 3 prong and 2 prong connecters are recycled PC fans... :P just a little trick i call Use Your Resources! LOL
awesome good job !!!congratulations you guys for the board,where i can find the pcb design?:d,keep the good work
First post, thanks!!!!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 3rd, 2012, 01:36 PM
Hi,

I build the replacement cell driver circuit by Sharky and now I have 50% DU at the TIP120.

Check my scope shots how this looks like, Sharky, Russ do you have the same?

I can now lock my PLL on the square wave generator as a pickup signal from the pickup-coil.

NOTE. on the pickup signal from the TIP120, if the voltage is to low (set by the voltage amplitude control) the PLL gets no valid input voltage signal from the TIP120 pickup and won't lock. So this should be calibrated also! (gain, offset)

The "Voltage Amplitude Control" has the advantage to adjust the voltage very slow by changing the duty cycle 1-99% then variable voltage. Offset is the min. voltage (for pickup??) gain the speed it changes the voltage.

(My VIC has the resonance frequency of approx 15kHz so I had to change my PLL and LPF settings)

I have to test more things...

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on May 3rd, 2012, 01:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMmTXKH6m3E

I will check that webmug.. When I get my 33uf caps... :) ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 01:55 AM
This is how the PLL is locking-in on the pickup pulse (square wave).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCLCG_6I18

Br,
Webmug
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 3rd, 2012, 01:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMmTXKH6m3E

I will check that webmug.. When I get my 33uf caps... :) ~Russ
33uf? Do you mean 33 nano farads for the IC power filter caps?
Can be 100nf too I guess :cool:

Don't forget the 220 ohms 2Watts parallel resistor over the primary coil at the TIP120.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on May 4th, 2012, 02:38 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 3rd, 2012, 01:36 PM
Hi,

I build the replacement cell driver circuit by Sharky and now I have 50% DU at the TIP120.

Check my scope shots how this looks like, Sharky, Russ do you have the same?

I can now lock my PLL on the square wave generator as a pickup signal from the pickup-coil.

NOTE. on the pickup signal from the TIP120, if the voltage is to low (set by the voltage amplitude control) the PLL gets no valid input voltage signal from the TIP120 pickup and won't lock. So this should be calibrated also! (gain, offset)

The "Voltage Amplitude Control" has the advantage to adjust the voltage very slow by changing the duty cycle 1-99% then variable voltage. Offset is the min. voltage (for pickup??) gain the speed it changes the voltage.

(My VIC has the resonance frequency of approx 15kHz so I had to change my PLL and LPF settings)

I have to test more things...

Br,
Webmug
Hi Webmug,
I also concluded that the current Voltage Amplitude Control will only work for the higher voltages and that for lower voltages the pll loses it lock. Do you already have the offset and gain parts worked out? We could add that to the design.

Second thing i am interested in knowing is what are the C1/C2 and R1/R2 values you are using for the bigger pll lockin range. I have been playing with several values but could not get it entirely right. I think that it would be preferable to have the pll lock in from 200Hz - 20KHz if posible, that way it can lock in to a larger range of vic coil specifications.

Thank you,
Sharky
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on May 4th, 2012, 02:44 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 01:55 AM
This is how the PLL is locking-in on the pickup pulse (square wave).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCLCG_6I18

Br,
Webmug
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 3rd, 2012, 01:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMmTXKH6m3E

I will check that webmug.. When I get my 33uf caps... :) ~Russ
33uf? Do you mean 33 nano farads for the IC power filter caps?
Can be 100nf too I guess :cool:

Don't forget the 220 ohms 2Watts parallel resistor over the primary coil at the TIP120.

Br,
Webmug
Yeah, 33 nano F

Will do on the 220!

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on May 4th, 2012, 02:46 AM
Russ, Webmug, others, ...
Would it be preferable for future versions to have two PCB's. The first one containing the Power Supply, Gating and Voltage Amplitude Control parts  and the second one containing the rest. That way if you want to drive more than one cell you can reuse the first one and have a smaller second one for every individual coil/cell set.
Opinions?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 03:13 AM
Quote from Sharky on May 4th, 2012, 02:38 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 3rd, 2012, 01:36 PM
Hi,

I build the replacement cell driver circuit by Sharky and now I have 50% DU at the TIP120.

Check my scope shots how this looks like, Sharky, Russ do you have the same?

I can now lock my PLL on the square wave generator as a pickup signal from the pickup-coil.

NOTE. on the pickup signal from the TIP120, if the voltage is to low (set by the voltage amplitude control) the PLL gets no valid input voltage signal from the TIP120 pickup and won't lock. So this should be calibrated also! (gain, offset)

The "Voltage Amplitude Control" has the advantage to adjust the voltage very slow by changing the duty cycle 1-99% then variable voltage. Offset is the min. voltage (for pickup??) gain the speed it changes the voltage.

(My VIC has the resonance frequency of approx 15kHz so I had to change my PLL and LPF settings)

I have to test more things...

Br,
Webmug
Hi Webmug,
I also concluded that the current Voltage Amplitude Control will only work for the higher voltages and that for lower voltages the pll loses it lock. Do you already have the offset and gain parts worked out? We could add that to the design.

Second thing i am interested in knowing is what are the C1/C2 and R1/R2 values you are using for the bigger pll lockin range. I have been playing with several values but could not get it entirely right. I think that it would be preferable to have the pll lock in from 200Hz - 20KHz if posible, that way it can lock in to a larger range of vic coil specifications.

Thank you,
Sharky
My TIP120 pickup operates on max. 10.8V and min. 5.6V (voltage amplitude control).
My logic works at 12V the logical "1" and "0" input at the PLL should be in range.
If the pickup "logic" high is lower than the high PLL "logic" it won't lock-in.

You use 10V power supply so offset and gain should be adjusted for the logic "0"and "1", I guess.

The resistors for low and high frequency are set with R1 and R2. Check it by connecting pin 9 on the pll vco to gnd or vcc. Min. Max. frequency.

I'm using R1=4.56k pot, R2=161k pot, C=10nF (103) at this moment.:)

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on May 4th, 2012, 03:24 AM
Quote from Sharky on May 4th, 2012, 02:46 AM
Russ, Webmug, others, ...
Would it be preferable for future versions to have two PCB's. The first one containing the Power Supply, Gating and Voltage Amplitude Control parts  and the second one containing the rest. That way if you want to drive more than one cell you can reuse the first one and have a smaller second one for every individual coil/cell set.
Opinions?
I think it's a fantastic idea. Also there will need to be some thought on better ways to drive parts of the circuit...

I like. Let's test test test with this one first! A jump start is allways good!

Ps, looking good for the SS wire... Just dont know prices yet, geting the wire samples soon
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 04:52 AM
Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on May 4th, 2012, 05:23 AM
Quote from Sharky on May 4th, 2012, 02:46 AM
Russ, Webmug, others, ...
Would it be preferable for future versions to have two PCB's. The first one containing the Power Supply, Gating and Voltage Amplitude Control parts  and the second one containing the rest. That way if you want to drive more than one cell you can reuse the first one and have a smaller second one for every individual coil/cell set.
Opinions?
That sounds like a very good idea Sharky, we can add to it if need be without having to change the design again.:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Gunther Rattay on May 4th, 2012, 06:30 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 04:52 AM
Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug
if the core gets hot one reason may be that the core runs into saturation. to avoid saturation primary must have a pulse voltage, minimum frequency and core parameter dependent minimum count of windings. primary windings must be calculated in a way that gating is not mandatory.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 07:17 AM
Quote from bussi04 on May 4th, 2012, 06:30 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 04:52 AM
Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug
if the core gets hot one reason may be that the core runs into saturation. to avoid saturation primary must have a pulse voltage, minimum frequency and core parameter dependent minimum count of windings. primary windings must be calculated in a way that gating is not mandatory.
bussi04 ,
The core is not getting hot, the primary coil is when you continuous PULSE it with 1.1 Amps (50% DU) at 12V DC. The 30AWG wire is getting warm/hot so you should GATE the PULSE to lower the current feeding the primary at the same time tuning on the chokes (charge time). Lowering the input voltage (VAC voltage amplitude control) at the TIP120 also reduces the current going through the primary coil.

To all,
In scope shot I measured the signal from pin 6 op-amp pickup circuit from the feedback coil.

What are we going to measure? Resonance on secondary, chokes and WFC ??

We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??

Happy testing!

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on May 4th, 2012, 03:10 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 07:17 AM
Quote from bussi04 on May 4th, 2012, 06:30 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 04:52 AM
Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug
if the core gets hot one reason may be that the core runs into saturation. to avoid saturation primary must have a pulse voltage, minimum frequency and core parameter dependent minimum count of windings. primary windings must be calculated in a way that gating is not mandatory.
bussi04 ,
The core is not getting hot, the primary coil is when you continuous PULSE it with 1.1 Amps (50% DU) at 12V DC. The 30AWG wire is getting warm/hot so you should GATE the PULSE to lower the current feeding the primary at the same time tuning on the chokes (charge time). Lowering the input voltage (VAC voltage amplitude control) at the TIP120 also reduces the current going through the primary coil.

To all,
In scope shot I measured the signal from pin 6 op-amp pickup circuit from the feedback coil.

What are we going to measure? Resonance on secondary, chokes and WFC ??

We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??

Happy testing!

Br,
Webmug
During my testing I could get a very nice square wave back out of the opamp. This was with an iron core. Do you have any cores at all?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Gunther Rattay on May 5th, 2012, 01:26 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 07:17 AM
bussi04 ,
The core is not getting hot, the primary coil is when you continuous PULSE it with 1.1 Amps (50% DU) at 12V DC. The 30AWG wire is getting warm/hot so you should GATE the PULSE to lower the current feeding the primary at the same time tuning on the chokes (charge time). Lowering the input voltage (VAC voltage amplitude control) at the TIP120 also reduces the current going through the primary coil.

To all,
In scope shot I measured the signal from pin 6 op-amp pickup circuit from the feedback coil.

What are we going to measure? Resonance on secondary, chokes and WFC ??

We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??

Happy testing!

Br,
Webmug
Sorry, my mistake, I meant the coil gets hot in case of saturation, not the core.
as soon as core is saturated amp at the primary is only limited by ohmic resistance of windings and MosFet/transistor. often power supply voltage for the primary will break down for that period of time. that can be measured. if you put a resistor 0.1 ohms in series to the primary you can measure the current (= voltage over the resistor)  thru the primary by using an oscilloscope. my experience is that the peak current is much higher than the RMS current of an amp meter display.

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 5th, 2012, 02:25 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 4th, 2012, 03:10 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 07:17 AM
Quote from bussi04 on May 4th, 2012, 06:30 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 04:52 AM
Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug
if the core gets hot one reason may be that the core runs into saturation. to avoid saturation primary must have a pulse voltage, minimum frequency and core parameter dependent minimum count of windings. primary windings must be calculated in a way that gating is not mandatory.
bussi04 ,
The core is not getting hot, the primary coil is when you continuous PULSE it with 1.1 Amps (50% DU) at 12V DC. The 30AWG wire is getting warm/hot so you should GATE the PULSE to lower the current feeding the primary at the same time tuning on the chokes (charge time). Lowering the input voltage (VAC voltage amplitude control) at the TIP120 also reduces the current going through the primary coil.

To all,
In scope shot I measured the signal from pin 6 op-amp pickup circuit from the feedback coil.

What are we going to measure? Resonance on secondary, chokes and WFC ??

We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??

Happy testing!

Br,
Webmug
During my testing I could get a very nice square wave back out of the opamp. This was with an iron core. Do you have any cores at all?
Russ, I have a VIC with a core for testing. Not the exact specs. This is my latest custom build version V5.0.0 :D

That's why I have different results.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Quantum on May 5th, 2012, 07:53 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 07:17 AM
Quote from bussi04 on May 4th, 2012, 06:30 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 4th, 2012, 04:52 AM
Hi,

I replaced the waveform generator with the feedback coil.
Did a few tests on the feedback coil circuit. This is more difficult than I thought it would be.

What signal should I get when I have AC resonance at the chokes from the VIC feedback coil?

I'm not getting nice square wave (again 50% duty cycle:D) from the opamp to have a lock-on :rolleyes:

The feedback coil should mirror the signal on the core, right?
So AC is AC at the feedback coil in theory...

NOTE. WARNING !!!
When you are going to test the VIC without the GATE active, the primary coil is getting hot! So use gate! If primary gets 1.1Amps pulsed for a period of time without gating the wire could be damaged!

Br,
Webmug
if the core gets hot one reason may be that the core runs into saturation. to avoid saturation primary must have a pulse voltage, minimum frequency and core parameter dependent minimum count of windings. primary windings must be calculated in a way that gating is not mandatory.
bussi04 ,
The core is not getting hot, the primary coil is when you continuous PULSE it with 1.1 Amps (50% DU) at 12V DC. The 30AWG wire is getting warm/hot so you should GATE the PULSE to lower the current feeding the primary at the same time tuning on the chokes (charge time). Lowering the input voltage (VAC voltage amplitude control) at the TIP120 also reduces the current going through the primary coil.

To all,
In scope shot I measured the signal from pin 6 op-amp pickup circuit from the feedback coil.

What are we going to measure? Resonance on secondary, chokes and WFC ??

We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??

Happy testing!

Br,
Webmug
Hi all!

I will try to answer your question: "We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??"

As I understand the working of 4046, I think when the feedback signals on the pin 14 and 3 are exactly the same frequency and phase, the output pins 1 and 2 will be in low state resulting the UD7 4001 NOR gate output to be in high state. This will occur only when the circuit has found the resonance. If I am wrong let me know.

Peace
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: KevinW_EnhancedLiving on May 5th, 2012, 09:33 AM
Awww man, I'm missing out on all the action here :P  Nice Progress guys!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: securesupplies on May 6th, 2012, 06:12 AM
For those who want to catch up and or
have a hard copy captures for education purposes

here for your FYI

Great work everyone

Dan
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 7th, 2012, 05:42 AM
Hi,

Did a few tests again on the circuit.
You can see the Voltage Amplitude Control VAC in action.
The voltage is changed very slow when the duty cycle is adjusted from 99% to 1%.
(99% is low voltage and 1% is maximum voltage)
Lock-on signal is lost when the voltage at the pickup signal at TIP120 is too low for the PLL. So the offset and gain should be adjusted for min. voltage.

Measured at the secondary coil. Feedback signal is not nice but the PLL can find the secondary coil resonance frequency.

Needs more work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAhVIMv30CI

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 7th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Hi,

Tested the GATED PULSE on the PLL, no lock!!! :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5KQn8oVDpo

I think the scanner should scan faster to get the PLL locking on the feedback signal on time. My gate frequency was set at 1Hz and 3Hz. 50% duty cycle.

Sharky, Russ can you lock the PLL with gating on?

What are your findings....

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on May 7th, 2012, 11:01 PM
finally got my 33uf caps...

seems that its locking on exzacly the same as my bred board circuit did... :)

dont know what this means at the moment as i have only been able to play with it for a short time but once we get the cores in... then we can see.

webmug, it seems that depending on what ever??? the gating will play with the lock on.

i need more time with it to check results... at this moment i just wanted to fire it up and see what happens.

more soon...

~Russ
Title: PLL troubles
Post by: Sirgoose on May 9th, 2012, 02:52 PM
Hello, i hope everybody is doing well. I have come to a bit of a stand still with the PLL. I can't seem to get it to work let alone lock on. I might have got defective parts idk, but anyway i will tell you what im doing and the theory i know and if you see a problem go ahead and tell me. So the HFE4060B PLL comes with both the Phase Comparator 1 and Phase Comparator 2 and with this come to completely different ways to get a phase lock. The PC1 when locked in is 90 degree out of phase from the input signal. The lock range is dependent on the on the low-pass filter and the capture range is set by the PLL VCO. PC2 when locked in is 0 degree out of phase of input signal. The lock range is independent of the low-pass filter and the PLL VCO controls both the lock range & capture range. Currently my equation to figure out the VCO frequency is Fo= 1/((2*3.14)*R1*C1), which is oddly enough the same equation for figuring out the cut-off frequency of a low-pass filter.
 Now i can't seem to get a lock from specs VCO( C1= 270pf, R1=118K ohms) and low-pass filter(C1= 68pf, R1=150K ohms). Which would be according to my calculation 5khz VCO and 15Khz Low-pass filter. The input the frequency i am using is a 555 timer adjustable from about 480hz to about 11Khz. i just can't seem to get it to work. Please help me out here!

P.s. I noticed that in Sharky's VIC PDF the PLL VCO is (C1= 100nf, R1=560 ohm, with an offset of 100Kohm for R2) Now my question is why have the offset? What would it be good for? Couldn't the PLL VCO just be adjustable without using the optional R2 offset?
Title: RE: PLL troubles
Post by: Webmug on May 10th, 2012, 08:19 AM
Quote from Sirgoose on May 9th, 2012, 02:52 PM
Hello, i hope everybody is doing well. I have come to a bit of a stand still with the PLL. I can't seem to get it to work let alone lock on. I might have got defective parts idk, but anyway i will tell you what im doing and the theory i know and if you see a problem go ahead and tell me. So the HFE4060B PLL comes with both the Phase Comparator 1 and Phase Comparator 2 and with this come to completely different ways to get a phase lock. The PC1 when locked in is 90 degree out of phase from the input signal. The lock range is dependent on the on the low-pass filter and the capture range is set by the PLL VCO. PC2 when locked in is 0 degree out of phase of input signal. The lock range is independent of the low-pass filter and the PLL VCO controls both the lock range & capture range. Currently my equation to figure out the VCO frequency is Fo= 1/((2*3.14)*R1*C1), which is oddly enough the same equation for figuring out the cut-off frequency of a low-pass filter.
 Now i can't seem to get a lock from specs VCO( C1= 270pf, R1=118K ohms) and low-pass filter(C1= 68pf, R1=150K ohms). Which would be according to my calculation 5khz VCO and 15Khz Low-pass filter. The input the frequency i am using is a 555 timer adjustable from about 480hz to about 11Khz. i just can't seem to get it to work. Please help me out here!

P.s. I noticed that in Sharky's VIC PDF the PLL VCO is (C1= 100nf, R1=560 ohm, with an offset of 100Kohm for R2) Now my question is why have the offset? What would it be good for? Couldn't the PLL VCO just be adjustable without using the optional R2 offset?
Hi Sirgoose,

The R1, R2 and C1-C2 cap connected to the PLL (CD4046) are for the VCO min and max frequency the VCO can generate. So if pin 9 connected to gnd you should see min and VCC max VCO frequency voltage at pll pin 4. The voltage from the Scanner circuit (triangle voltage amplitude) is used to drive the VCO.

If you use the values in Stan his circuit you have a good reference.
R1= 560ohm + pot(50kohms); R2=100kohms; C1-C2=0.1uF;

I used R1=pot(4k56ohms); R2=pot(161kohms); C1-C2=10nF

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Quantum on May 10th, 2012, 09:42 AM
Maybe this DOS calculator will be of use for HCT4046, 74HC4046. When I was using it in different project, my PLL was working like it should without problems.

Its not good for the HEF4046 because it has different VCO.

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on May 10th, 2012, 11:19 PM
Quote from haozoudao1988 on May 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM
Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% Smile)
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
Here is the circuit and the program(cright click ouside of skeme select style /curent flow for a better sim)
PS:sorry for the switches i have to improvize because the program doesn't have thouse kind of multipoint SW's..see attachement
Sorry but i cand post the program ..is to bigBig Grin
down here :http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/181698201/circuit+wizard?tab=summary
AND I CANNOT ATTACH ANYTHYNG:''Please correct the following errors before continuing:
The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type.
WTF?
hey bro! use ZIP files if you want to make it work... then when you upload it kinda takes it time... but it will go!

thanks!! ~Russ

PS, this thred is still alive :)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: adys15 on May 10th, 2012, 11:38 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 10th, 2012, 11:19 PM
Quote from haozoudao1988 on May 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM
Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% Smile)
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
Here is the circuit and the program(cright click ouside of skeme select style /curent flow for a better sim)
PS:sorry for the switches i have to improvize because the program doesn't have thouse kind of multipoint SW's..see attachement
Sorry but i cand post the program ..is to bigBig Grin
down here :http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/181698201/circuit+wizard?tab=summary
AND I CANNOT ATTACH ANYTHYNG:''Please correct the following errors before continuing:
The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type.
WTF?
hey bro! use ZIP files if you want to make it work... then when you upload it kinda takes it time... but it will go!

thanks!! ~Russ

PS, this thred is still alive :)
Russ don't worry this thread is still alive,but this haozoudao1988 is copying my older posts ,and paste it out here,look at page 4 ''haozoudao1988'' whats your problem?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on May 11th, 2012, 04:55 AM
Uploaded  VIC1.1-20120511.zip to the first post. It contains the corrected error and track changes for the pcb. I want to add the pot meters again to the 4046 to be able to finetune its min/max frequency settings.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on May 11th, 2012, 04:57 AM
Quote from haozoudao1988 on May 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM
Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% Smile)
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
Here is the circuit and the program(cright click ouside of skeme select style /curent flow for a better sim)
PS:sorry for the switches i have to improvize because the program doesn't have thouse kind of multipoint SW's..see attachement
Sorry but i cand post the program ..is to bigBig Grin
down here :http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/181698201/circuit+wizard?tab=summary
AND I CANNOT ATTACH ANYTHYNG:''Please correct the following errors before continuing:
The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type.
WTF?
Zip all your program and or files, then you will be able to attach or upload them to the forum. Also leave spaces between browser addresses and or smiles, thanks ,Jeff.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: phil on May 11th, 2012, 10:12 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 10th, 2012, 11:38 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 10th, 2012, 11:19 PM
Quote from haozoudao1988 on May 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM
Russ don't worry this thread is still alive,but this haozoudao1988 is copying my older posts ,and paste it out here,look at page 4 ''haozoudao1988'' whats your problem?
Yeah man me too, i saw one of my old posts crop up back from the early days of this forum when there was only about 5 of us brainstorming about the EPG.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Muxar on May 11th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Bad news people!!
It looks like this annoying guy was rigth about the gab betwen the cores:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHbFm7ylHY4
look what hapens with and without the gab:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlWXb3oC4rs

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on May 11th, 2012, 12:50 PM
Quote from Muxar on May 11th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Bad news people!!
It looks like this annoying guy was rigth about the gab betwen the cores:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHbFm7ylHY4
look what hapens with and without the gab:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlWXb3oC4rs
Guy's, don't worry about Max videos, everything is under control, we need to see for ourselves if there is a gap or not, Russ say's no gap so I think we should go with that. Also, if there is proof that we need a gap we can cut one, not a problem, but think if there is no gap and we had a gap made in the cores, we would be up a creek without a paddle so to speak, so let use our own resources and not someone else's. Yes I put out the same question to Russ, and I concluded Russ was right, thanks ,guy's.:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on May 11th, 2012, 12:59 PM
Quote from phil on May 11th, 2012, 10:12 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 10th, 2012, 11:38 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 10th, 2012, 11:19 PM
Quote from haozoudao1988 on May 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM
Russ don't worry this thread is still alive,but this haozoudao1988 is copying my older posts ,and paste it out here,look at page 4 ''haozoudao1988'' whats your problem?
Yeah man me too, i saw one of my old posts crop up back from the early days of this forum when there was only about 5 of us brainstorming about the EPG.
lets not worry about this either guy's, it will be looked into, I know it's frustrating, but you guy's are doing great work, so please just hang in there, thanks, Jeff.:D
Title: RE: PLL troubles
Post by: Sirgoose on May 11th, 2012, 11:05 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 10th, 2012, 08:19 AM
Quote from Sirgoose on May 9th, 2012, 02:52 PM
Hello, i hope everybody is doing well. I have come to a bit of a stand still with the PLL. I can't seem to get it to work let alone lock on. I might have got defective parts idk, but anyway i will tell you what im doing and the theory i know and if you see a problem go ahead and tell me. So the HFE4060B PLL comes with both the Phase Comparator 1 and Phase Comparator 2 and with this come to completely different ways to get a phase lock. The PC1 when locked in is 90 degree out of phase from the input signal. The lock range is dependent on the on the low-pass filter and the capture range is set by the PLL VCO. PC2 when locked in is 0 degree out of phase of input signal. The lock range is independent of the low-pass filter and the PLL VCO controls both the lock range & capture range. Currently my equation to figure out the VCO frequency is Fo= 1/((2*3.14)*R1*C1), which is oddly enough the same equation for figuring out the cut-off frequency of a low-pass filter.
 Now i can't seem to get a lock from specs VCO( C1= 270pf, R1=118K ohms) and low-pass filter(C1= 68pf, R1=150K ohms). Which would be according to my calculation 5khz VCO and 15Khz Low-pass filter. The input the frequency i am using is a 555 timer adjustable from about 480hz to about 11Khz. i just can't seem to get it to work. Please help me out here!

P.s. I noticed that in Sharky's VIC PDF the PLL VCO is (C1= 100nf, R1=560 ohm, with an offset of 100Kohm for R2) Now my question is why have the offset? What would it be good for? Couldn't the PLL VCO just be adjustable without using the optional R2 offset?
Hi Sirgoose,

The R1, R2 and C1-C2 cap connected to the PLL (CD4046) are for the VCO min and max frequency the VCO can generate. So if pin 9 connected to gnd you should see min and VCC max VCO frequency voltage at pll pin 4. The voltage from the Scanner circuit (triangle voltage amplitude) is used to drive the VCO.

If you use the values in Stan his circuit you have a good reference.
R1= 560ohm + pot(50kohms); R2=100kohms; C1-C2=0.1uF;

I used R1=pot(4k56ohms); R2=pot(161kohms); C1-C2=10nF

Br,
Webmug
Thanks for your input its greatly appreciated:D. i would have got to the post sooner but i never got an email saying i got a reply >.<

God Bless
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: ~Russ on May 11th, 2012, 11:23 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on May 11th, 2012, 12:50 PM
Quote from Muxar on May 11th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Bad news people!!
It looks like this annoying guy was rigth about the gab betwen the cores:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHbFm7ylHY4
look what hapens with and without the gab:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlWXb3oC4rs
Guy's, don't worry about Max videos, everything is under control, we need to see for ourselves if there is a gap or not, Russ say's no gap so I think we should go with that. Also, if there is proof that we need a gap we can cut one, not a problem, but think if there is no gap and we had a gap made in the cores, we would be up a creek without a paddle so to speak, so let use our own resources and not someone else's. Yes I put out the same question to Russ, and I concluded Russ was right, thanks ,guy's.:D
like i stated in one of my videos, dont madder who gets it going... just do it and show how, as we all need to try deterrent stuff to get this to work...

gap, no gap...

here is why i state no gap,

i taked to Don, the man who took these photos and took the measurements and had these things in his hands.  we have had Manny phone conversations, i trust what he tells me to be valid information based on the information researched.

Don took off some silicone that was covering the hole where you can see a gap. interestingly Don stated that there was no gap or no "shim" in between the cores...   he also stated that all the coils were not bolted down, just floating there... like one had tampered with the VIC coils... some of the photos were taken after don had taken the coils apart... thus a gap is shown...  

i'm glad max is trying the gap, this will make or brake this coil set. just like the no gap. one must try it all!!!!

From the data i have collected and some others i dont think there is a gap... know one can be for sure...

the VIC may work with or with out the gap depending on the core... who knows!

jeff,

we can watch what max has to say as we are all in the same boat, ALL of us...

ALL:

if you have negative things to say about others please just stick to the DATA and not the EGO. bring forth the information presented and keep personal conflict out. it would make everything better in the long run! again, as discussed before, lets keep it positive and keep pushing this tech forward! its not about who... its about the tech at hand...

last:

i'm just one of you guys... just because i say or i think something is true or what ever dose not mean I'm right. this is all up in there air for discussion!!! including what others have to say, that includes max, he is welcome here and would love to see him post his thoughts and have a healthy discussion,  as know one has all the answers... just there best educated guess.  

and last... GOD BLESS!!! :)

~Russ

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Gunther Rattay on May 12th, 2012, 01:54 AM
Quote from Quantum on May 10th, 2012, 09:42 AM
Maybe this DOS calculator will be of use for HCT4046, 74HC4046. When I was using it in different project, my PLL was working like it should without problems.

Its not good for the HEF4046 because it has different VCO.
That´s important to know HEF4046 and 74HC4046 are really different devices! compare datasheets. 74HC4046 has 3 different lock modes, HEF4046 only two.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 12th, 2012, 07:14 AM
Quote from bussi04 on May 12th, 2012, 01:54 AM
Quote from Quantum on May 10th, 2012, 09:42 AM
Maybe this DOS calculator will be of use for HCT4046, 74HC4046. When I was using it in different project, my PLL was working like it should without problems.

Its not good for the HEF4046 because it has different VCO.
That´s important to know HEF4046 and 74HC4046 are really different devices! compare datasheets. 74HC4046 has 3 different lock modes, HEF4046 only two.
Use the CD4046 PLL chip.
The 74HC4046 has a build-in lock detector circuit and runs at 5V VCC. We run the PLL at +10V on Sharky PCB and has external lock detector circuit. Just like Stan.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on May 12th, 2012, 07:28 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 11th, 2012, 11:23 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on May 11th, 2012, 12:50 PM
Quote from Muxar on May 11th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Bad news people!!
It looks like this annoying guy was rigth about the gab betwen the cores:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHbFm7ylHY4
look what hapens with and without the gab:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlWXb3oC4rs
Guy's, don't worry about Max videos, everything is under control, we need to see for ourselves if there is a gap or not, Russ say's no gap so I think we should go with that. Also, if there is proof that we need a gap we can cut one, not a problem, but think if there is no gap and we had a gap made in the cores, we would be up a creek without a paddle so to speak, so let use our own resources and not someone else's. Yes I put out the same question to Russ, and I concluded Russ was right, thanks ,guy's.:D
like i stated in one of my videos, dont madder who gets it going... just do it and show how, as we all need to try deterrent stuff to get this to work...

gap, no gap...

here is why i state no gap,

i taked to Don, the man who took these photos and took the measurements and had these things in his hands.  we have had Manny phone conversations, i trust what he tells me to be valid information based on the information researched.

Don took off some silicone that was covering the hole where you can see a gap. interestingly Don stated that there was no gap or no "shim" in between the cores...   he also stated that all the coils were not bolted down, just floating there... like one had tampered with the VIC coils... some of the photos were taken after don had taken the coils apart... thus a gap is shown...  

i'm glad max is trying the gap, this will make or brake this coil set. just like the no gap. one must try it all!!!!

From the data i have collected and some others i dont think there is a gap... know one can be for sure...

the VIC may work with or with out the gap depending on the core... who knows!

jeff,

we can watch what max has to say as we are all in the same boat, ALL of us...

ALL:

if you have negative things to say about others please just stick to the DATA and not the EGO. bring forth the information presented and keep personal conflict out. it would make everything better in the long run! again, as discussed before, lets keep it positive and keep pushing this tech forward! its not about who... its about the tech at hand...

last:

i'm just one of you guys... just because i say or i think something is true or what ever dose not mean I'm right. this is all up in there air for discussion!!! including what others have to say, that includes max, he is welcome here and would love to see him post his thoughts and have a healthy discussion,  as know one has all the answers... just there best educated guess.  

and last... GOD BLESS!!! :)

~Russ
Sorry Russ, you are very right, sorry guy,s and Max.:blush::blush:
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Muxar on May 12th, 2012, 08:23 AM
Sorry people!
I just wanted to share that testing and i didn´t want to insult anyone, i just was angry because i thought we where in the wrong path.
As you said Russ, testing is needed to see what happens, testing is the only one that will show us the path :)
Quote from Jeff Nading on May 12th, 2012, 07:28 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 11th, 2012, 11:23 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on May 11th, 2012, 12:50 PM
Quote from Muxar on May 11th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Bad news people!!
It looks like this annoying guy was rigth about the gab betwen the cores:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHbFm7ylHY4
look what hapens with and without the gab:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlWXb3oC4rs
Guy's, don't worry about Max videos, everything is under control, we need to see for ourselves if there is a gap or not, Russ say's no gap so I think we should go with that. Also, if there is proof that we need a gap we can cut one, not a problem, but think if there is no gap and we had a gap made in the cores, we would be up a creek without a paddle so to speak, so let use our own resources and not someone else's. Yes I put out the same question to Russ, and I concluded Russ was right, thanks ,guy's.:D
like i stated in one of my videos, dont madder who gets it going... just do it and show how, as we all need to try deterrent stuff to get this to work...

gap, no gap...

here is why i state no gap,

i taked to Don, the man who took these photos and took the measurements and had these things in his hands.  we have had Manny phone conversations, i trust what he tells me to be valid information based on the information researched.

Don took off some silicone that was covering the hole where you can see a gap. interestingly Don stated that there was no gap or no "shim" in between the cores...   he also stated that all the coils were not bolted down, just floating there... like one had tampered with the VIC coils... some of the photos were taken after don had taken the coils apart... thus a gap is shown...  

i'm glad max is trying the gap, this will make or brake this coil set. just like the no gap. one must try it all!!!!

From the data i have collected and some others i dont think there is a gap... know one can be for sure...

the VIC may work with or with out the gap depending on the core... who knows!

jeff,

we can watch what max has to say as we are all in the same boat, ALL of us...

ALL:

if you have negative things to say about others please just stick to the DATA and not the EGO. bring forth the information presented and keep personal conflict out. it would make everything better in the long run! again, as discussed before, lets keep it positive and keep pushing this tech forward! its not about who... its about the tech at hand...

last:

i'm just one of you guys... just because i say or i think something is true or what ever dose not mean I'm right. this is all up in there air for discussion!!! including what others have to say, that includes max, he is welcome here and would love to see him post his thoughts and have a healthy discussion,  as know one has all the answers... just there best educated guess.  

and last... GOD BLESS!!! :)

~Russ
Sorry Russ, you are very right, sorry guy,s and Max.:blush::blush:
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Jeff Nading on May 12th, 2012, 08:36 AM
Quote from Muxar on May 12th, 2012, 08:23 AM
Sorry people!
I just wanted to share that testing and i didn´t want to insult anyone, i just was angry because i thought we where in the wrong path.
As you said Russ, testing is needed to see what happens, testing is the only one that will show us the path :)
Quote from Jeff Nading on May 12th, 2012, 07:28 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 11th, 2012, 11:23 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on May 11th, 2012, 12:50 PM
Quote from Muxar on May 11th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Bad news people!!
It looks like this annoying guy was rigth about the gab betwen the cores:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHbFm7ylHY4
look what hapens with and without the gab:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlWXb3oC4rs
Guy's, don't worry about Max videos, everything is under control, we need to see for ourselves if there is a gap or not, Russ say's no gap so I think we should go with that. Also, if there is proof that we need a gap we can cut one, not a problem, but think if there is no gap and we had a gap made in the cores, we would be up a creek without a paddle so to speak, so let use our own resources and not someone else's. Yes I put out the same question to Russ, and I concluded Russ was right, thanks ,guy's.:D
like i stated in one of my videos, dont madder who gets it going... just do it and show how, as we all need to try deterrent stuff to get this to work...

gap, no gap...

here is why i state no gap,

i taked to Don, the man who took these photos and took the measurements and had these things in his hands.  we have had Manny phone conversations, i trust what he tells me to be valid information based on the information researched.

Don took off some silicone that was covering the hole where you can see a gap. interestingly Don stated that there was no gap or no "shim" in between the cores...   he also stated that all the coils were not bolted down, just floating there... like one had tampered with the VIC coils... some of the photos were taken after don had taken the coils apart... thus a gap is shown...  

i'm glad max is trying the gap, this will make or brake this coil set. just like the no gap. one must try it all!!!!

From the data i have collected and some others i dont think there is a gap... know one can be for sure...

the VIC may work with or with out the gap depending on the core... who knows!

jeff,

we can watch what max has to say as we are all in the same boat, ALL of us...

ALL:

if you have negative things to say about others please just stick to the DATA and not the EGO. bring forth the information presented and keep personal conflict out. it would make everything better in the long run! again, as discussed before, lets keep it positive and keep pushing this tech forward! its not about who... its about the tech at hand...

last:

i'm just one of you guys... just because i say or i think something is true or what ever dose not mean I'm right. this is all up in there air for discussion!!! including what others have to say, that includes max, he is welcome here and would love to see him post his thoughts and have a healthy discussion,  as know one has all the answers... just there best educated guess.  

and last... GOD BLESS!!! :)

~Russ
Sorry Russ, you are very right, sorry guy,s and Max.:blush::blush:
We all are in this together,    Muxar and we are all imperfect, as am I, make mistakes everyday, i am sorry to, Jeff.:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Faisca on May 12th, 2012, 09:06 AM
Quote from Quantum on May 5th, 2012, 07:53 AM
Hi all!

I will try to answer your question: "We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??"

As I understand the working of 4046, I think when the feedback signals on the pin 14 and 3 are exactly the same frequency and phase, the output pins 1 and 2 will be in low state resulting the UD7 4001 NOR gate output to be in high state. This will occur only when the circuit has found the resonance. If I am wrong let me know.

Peace

You're wrong:
The logic is reversed, the diagram is right.
I tested: when the line is okay, CP1 (pin 2) is half time "1" and LD (pin 1) is 99.9% "1".
This data sheet (4046) shows that you, not exactly the same, but I think it works the same.[/quote]
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Faisca on May 12th, 2012, 04:31 PM
Quote from Sharky on May 11th, 2012, 04:55 AM
Uploaded  VIC1.1-20120511.zip to the first post. It contains the corrected error and track changes for the pcb. I want to add the pot meters again to the 4046 to be able to finetune its min/max frequency settings.
Good continuing:
After reading a comment of the TonyWoodside, about 4017 and her pulses are not square, it was an insight I had. Well so far made ​​no sense, as the PLL detect the resonance through the Pc2, as I had observed this comparator (PC2) does not respond as PC1 (ok dphi = 90 °), therefore, and the way that the diagram "vicschem "even without using one of three" 4017 "(this is divided by 10), does not really make sense.
Now, off pins 4 and 3 (4046) and using (at least one) of 4017 and taking the signal output by any of the "Q" (q0, q1, q2, .... q9), we have a pulse with a pulse full width of the VCO and repeated every 10. In other words, f out = 1/10 and duty = 1/10, thus uses less power, less current (like PWM), but being tuned the VIC, to reproduce the wave symmetric and FB picks up a square wave, satisfying the "PC2" .
4017 can be used (N/10) or 4022 (N / 8). Meyer did not say which he used.
The VCO should be adjusted to a range much higher, eg. (in 4022):
VCO = 51.2 kHz__768kHz
(after N / 8) = 6.4 kHz__96kHz
(after N / 8) = 800Hz__12kHz
(after N / 8) = 100Hz__1, 5kHz

Another example. (in 4017):
VCO = 60kHz__720kHz
(after N/10) = 6kHz__72kHz
(after N/10) = 600Hz__7, 2kHz
(after N/10) = 60Hz__720Hz
This can be tested in many ways. Note that the overlapping end of one range to the next.
I believe the higher range (direct VCO) will not be used (perhaps only for testing).
In their tests will use the middle of the range = 2.5 kHz, then VCO = 25kHz (4017) or = 20 kHz (4022)
This works, I tried!
Someone comments?
Congratulations to all, are doing a good job.
My name is Fidel
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on May 13th, 2012, 03:23 AM
Ok, getting back to what this thread was all about ;) ... I will try and squeeze in 3 switches implemented as jumpers on the pcb. One at the gating output, one between the 4046 and the cell driver and one between voltage amplitude control and primairy. That way we can easily exchange or reuse those parts. I will look into the divider thing but your post is not very clear to me ? The dividers were not connected on the meyer vic version, can you and elaborate on what you meant to point out?
Regards,
Sharky
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Quantum on May 13th, 2012, 05:06 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 12th, 2012, 09:06 AM
Quote from Quantum on May 5th, 2012, 07:53 AM
Hi all!

I will try to answer your question: "We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??"

As I understand the working of 4046, I think when the feedback signals on the pin 14 and 3 are exactly the same frequency and phase, the output pins 1 and 2 will be in low state resulting the UD7 4001 NOR gate output to be in high state. This will occur only when the circuit has found the resonance. If I am wrong let me know.

Peace

You're wrong:
The logic is reversed, the diagram is right.
I tested: when the line is okay, CP1 (pin 2) is half time "1" and LD (pin 1) is 99.9% "1".
This data sheet (4046) shows that you, not exactly the same, but I think it works the same.
[/quote]Thx mate. So you tested with continuous or gated pulses? Some people are having problems locking in with gated pulses. Is it ok for you?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Faisca on May 13th, 2012, 12:43 PM
Quote from Sharky on May 13th, 2012, 03:23 AM
Ok, getting back to what this thread was all about ;) ... I will try and squeeze in 3 switches implemented as jumpers on the pcb. One at the gating output, one between the 4046 and the cell driver and one between voltage amplitude control and primairy. That way we can easily exchange or reuse those parts. I will look into the divider thing but your post is not very clear to me ? The dividers were not connected on the meyer vic version, can you and elaborate on what you meant to point out?
Regards,
Sharky
You got me wrong, the original Meyer uses dividers, in your diagram they are not being used. The VCO (pin 4) is direct PCB (pin 3) is wrong.
I will make a diagram and oscillograms shots, to show more clearly. (not today).
See you soon.
Quote from Quantum on May 13th, 2012, 05:06 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 12th, 2012, 09:06 AM
Quote from Quantum on May 5th, 2012, 07:53 AM
Hi all!

I will try to answer your question: "We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??"

As I understand the working of 4046, I think when the feedback signals on the pin 14 and 3 are exactly the same frequency and phase, the output pins 1 and 2 will be in low state resulting the UD7 4001 NOR gate output to be in high state. This will occur only when the circuit has found the resonance. If I am wrong let me know.

Peace

You're wrong:
The logic is reversed, the diagram is right.
I tested: when the line is okay, CP1 (pin 2) is half time "1" and LD (pin 1) is 99.9% "1".
This data sheet (4046) shows that you, not exactly the same, but I think it works the same.
Thx mate. So you tested with continuous or gated pulses? Some people are having problems locking in with gated pulses. Is it ok for you?[/quote]Only continuous pulses, no gate.
This part of the "gate inhibit PLL" is not clear. It makes no sense, not yet. But we understand. (may be misinformation).
See you soon.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 13th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 13th, 2012, 12:43 PM
Quote from Sharky on May 13th, 2012, 03:23 AM
Ok, getting back to what this thread was all about ;) ... I will try and squeeze in 3 switches implemented as jumpers on the pcb. One at the gating output, one between the 4046 and the cell driver and one between voltage amplitude control and primairy. That way we can easily exchange or reuse those parts. I will look into the divider thing but your post is not very clear to me ? The dividers were not connected on the meyer vic version, can you and elaborate on what you meant to point out?
Regards,
Sharky
You got me wrong, the original Meyer uses dividers, in your diagram they are not being used. The VCO (pin 4) is direct PCB (pin 3) is wrong.
I will make a diagram and oscillograms shots, to show more clearly. (not today).
See you soon.
Quote from Quantum on May 13th, 2012, 05:06 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 12th, 2012, 09:06 AM
Quote from Quantum on May 5th, 2012, 07:53 AM
Hi all!

I will try to answer your question: "We need the feedback pulse also to have 50% duty cycle, this is when you have resonance (total resonance etc. ) ??"

As I understand the working of 4046, I think when the feedback signals on the pin 14 and 3 are exactly the same frequency and phase, the output pins 1 and 2 will be in low state resulting the UD7 4001 NOR gate output to be in high state. This will occur only when the circuit has found the resonance. If I am wrong let me know.

Peace

You're wrong:
The logic is reversed, the diagram is right.
I tested: when the line is okay, CP1 (pin 2) is half time "1" and LD (pin 1) is 99.9% "1".
This data sheet (4046) shows that you, not exactly the same, but I think it works the same.
Thx mate. So you tested with continuous or gated pulses? Some people are having problems locking in with gated pulses. Is it ok for you?
Only continuous pulses, no gate.
This part of the "gate inhibit PLL" is not clear. It makes no sense, not yet. But we understand. (may be misinformation).
See you soon.
Hi,

The 4017 are not used for the PLL. Only as dividers for the led.
If your frequency is max 10khz and divide to 10 hz max you can still see the led flashing as indicator.

My thoughts.

See photo from Dynodon where light is under the pcb so you can see the layers. The pin 4 PLL, is rewired also pin 3. Dividers are bypassed as total signal.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Sharky on May 14th, 2012, 02:33 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 13th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Hi,

The 4017 are not used for the PLL. Only as dividers for the led.
If your frequency is max 10khz and divide to 10 hz max you can still see the led flashing as indicator.

My thoughts.

See photo from Dynodon where light is under the pcb so you can see the layers. The pin 4 PLL, is rewired also pin 3. Dividers are bypassed as total signal.

Br,
Webmug
I agree with webmug. Looking at the original PCB photos from Dynodon i concluded that the dividers were only used for the led, that is why we left it out. Possibly it was put in at first because the frequency range was not known yet, anyway remember the vic pcb was still a systems development version and contains things that serve no purpose. On the feedback signal, .... to my understanding the feedback signal does not need to have 50% dutycycle for the vco output to be 50% dutycycle. It will lock on to the phase of the signal to get its frequency but a short pulse should already be sufficient, .... at least that is what i make up from the 4046 datasheet.

On the gating, ... the pulses from the feedback signal extend beyond the vco output. What i mean by that is when the gating kicks in the vco output is set low. Coil resonance however will cause a continuing energy exchange between the coils and capacitor, ... that is what is called resonance. So even when gating is on the feedback signal will continue to produce pulses as long as its amplitude is above the opamp minimum. So i think that if gating is too long it will loose its lock as soon as the amplitude gets below the minimum but if we adjust gating to the point where it still produces sufficient feedback signal it should work fine. Maybe that is meant by tuning in to the resonant action?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Gunther Rattay on May 14th, 2012, 03:41 AM
Quote from Sharky on May 14th, 2012, 02:33 AM
...

On the gating, ... the pulses from the feedback signal extend beyond the vco output. What i mean by that is when the gating kicks in the vco output is set low. Coil resonance however will cause a continuing energy exchange between the coils and capacitor, ... that is what is called resonance. So even when gating is on the feedback signal will continue to produce pulses as long as its amplitude is above the opamp minimum. So i think that if gating is too long it will loose its lock as soon as the amplitude gets below the minimum but if we adjust gating to the point where it still produces sufficient feedback signal it should work fine. Maybe that is meant by tuning in to the resonant action?
you are pointing at a serious design issue!

that´s exactly the problem I ran into with my freedom circuit Stan Meyer  4046 rebuild 2 years ago. quite the same circuit design as you are using now. and that´s an important reason why I prefer a µC PLL solution:

1. maybe the coil oscillation while gating has another (higher) frequency than pulsing frequency (higher mode). then 4046 will get a wrong sync signal.

2. when 4046 loses feedback pulse it will restart oscillation after end of gating at minimum adjusted frequency and resynchronize with resonance after some time. that reduces resonant action time frame until next gating takes place. and that means that primary pulse voltage must be reduced for that period of time if VIC wire diameter is designed for operation in resonant condition.

a µC can remember last oscillation frequency and be instantaneously synchronized because it controlles frequency and gating. that´s the way the µC works I´m using.
so I have full control over frequency, resonance detection and gating all the time :-). there is a pulse out signal in non resonant condition and another pulse out for resonant condition. that way one mosfet can pulse with reduced input voltage to go for resonance and another mosfet can pulse full power at resonant condition.

I ran into the same problems you are discussing here and there was no way to go with 4046 in lock mode gating configuration.

maybe you can solve the problem by disconnecting the totem pole connector of 4046 while gating and then the relevant capacitor will preserve its voltage level for some time and maybe until gating is done and then 4046 jumps in at the recent lock frequency. but that takes a brief design review for 4046 configuration and lots of testing before buiding another pcb.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 14th, 2012, 04:29 AM
Quote from bussi04 on May 14th, 2012, 03:41 AM
Quote from Sharky on May 14th, 2012, 02:33 AM
...

On the gating, ... the pulses from the feedback signal extend beyond the vco output. What i mean by that is when the gating kicks in the vco output is set low. Coil resonance however will cause a continuing energy exchange between the coils and capacitor, ... that is what is called resonance. So even when gating is on the feedback signal will continue to produce pulses as long as its amplitude is above the opamp minimum. So i think that if gating is too long it will loose its lock as soon as the amplitude gets below the minimum but if we adjust gating to the point where it still produces sufficient feedback signal it should work fine. Maybe that is meant by tuning in to the resonant action?
you are pointing at a serious design issue!

that´s exactly the problem I ran into with my freedom circuit Stan Meyer  4046 rebuild 2 years ago. quite the same circuit design as you are using now. and that´s an important reason why I prefer a µC PLL solution:

1. maybe the coil oscillation while gating has another (higher) frequency than pulsing frequency (higher mode). then 4046 will get a wrong sync signal.

2. when 4046 loses feedback pulse it will restart oscillation after end of gating at minimum adjusted frequency and resynchronize with resonance after some time. that reduces resonant action time frame until next gating takes place. and that means that primary pulse voltage must be reduced for that period of time if VIC wire diameter is designed for operation in resonant condition.

a µC can remember last oscillation frequency and be instantaneously synchronized because it controlles frequency and gating. that´s the way the µC works I´m using.
so I have full control over frequency, resonance detection and gating all the time :-). there is a pulse out signal in non resonant condition and another pulse out for resonant condition. that way one mosfet can pulse with reduced input voltage to go for resonance and another mosfet can pulse full power at resonant condition.

I ran into the same problems you are discussing here and there was no way to go with 4046 in lock mode gating configuration.

maybe you can solve the problem by disconnecting the totem pole connector of 4046 while gating and then the relevant capacitor will preserve its voltage level for some time and maybe until gating is done and then 4046 jumps in at the recent lock frequency. but that takes a brief design review for 4046 configuration and lots of testing before buiding another pcb.
Hi,

I find it interesting if you are using a uC for the circuit.
Please post it in VIC2.0 PCB design ideas, if you want...:cool:

But using the 4046 there is also the scanner circuit. This is why it is so fast scanning for the resonance. The gating frequency is not know yet, but it seems it is slow, say 0.5 to 3 seconds, you want a fast lock-in after gate duty cycle.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on May 14th, 2012, 06:35 AM
Just uploaded the final v1.1 files (KiCAD project, PDF and Gerber/Drill files). I removed the work in progess from the subject as for me this job is done. As busi and others recently pointed out there may still be some issues with gating or other. The goal however was to replicate the meyer board as close as possible. As this last board version contains several possibilities to change or replace several parts of the pcb i think that for now it is job done and sufficient to do some baseline testing. The results of those tests will most probably result in changes but lets incorporate those in a V2.0 vic.
Enjoy,
Sharky
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on May 14th, 2012, 08:12 AM
Quote from Sharky on May 14th, 2012, 06:35 AM
Just uploaded the final v1.1 files (KiCAD project, PDF and Gerber/Drill files). I removed the work in progess from the subject as for me this job is done. As busi and others recently pointed out there may still be some issues with gating or other. The goal however was to replicate the meyer board as close as possible. As this last board version contains several possibilities to change or replace several parts of the pcb i think that for now it is job done and sufficient to do some baseline testing. The results of those tests will most probably result in changes but lets incorporate those in a V2.0 vic.
Enjoy,
Sharky
Very nice job Sharky, very cool.:cool::D:P
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Faisca on May 14th, 2012, 11:32 AM


Only continuous pulses, no gate.
This part of the "gate inhibit PLL" is not clear. It makes no sense, not yet. But we understand. (may be misinformation).
See you soon.[/quote]Hi,

The 4017 are not used for the PLL. Only as dividers for the led.
If your frequency is max 10khz and divide to 10 hz max you can still see the led flashing as indicator.

My thoughts.

See photo from Dynodon where light is under the pcb so you can see the layers. The pin 4 PLL, is rewired also pin 3. Dividers are bypassed as total signal.

Br,
Webmug[/quote]Precisely this is wrong, think it is just to flash the LED.
Look at the diagram of Meyer (figara 7..PCT/US90/06407), the four-position rotary switch (sel range.), Only the first position, the divisor is ignored (I think it's the "0" = start ) and further a = 1/10 2 = 1/100 = 3 1/100.
With this arrangement the driver always wore a tenth of the power to avoid saturating the VIC and ensuring that the FB only produced a square wave, when you get resonance.
The other way, ignoring the divisor, the PLL will lock onto any frequency driver and 50% will always be excited and perhaps saturated.
This makes sense to you?
I'm confirming this in protoboard. It's real!

Success for us all.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Webmug on May 14th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 14th, 2012, 11:32 AM
Precisely this is wrong, think it is just to flash the LED.
Look at the diagram of Meyer (figara 7..PCT/US90/06407), the four-position rotary switch (sel range.), Only the first position, the divisor is ignored (I think it's the "0" = start ) and further a = 1/10 2 = 1/100 = 3 1/100.
With this arrangement the driver always wore a tenth of the power to avoid saturating the VIC and ensuring that the FB only produced a square wave, when you get resonance.
The other way, ignoring the divisor, the PLL will lock onto any frequency driver and 50% will always be excited and perhaps saturated.
This makes sense to you?
I'm confirming this in protoboard. It's real!

Success for us all.
"With this arrangement the driver always wore a tenth of the power to avoid saturating the VIC and ensuring that the FB only produced a square wave, when you get resonance" I don't follow.

I'm looking at three versions of the circuit! :huh: and I'm getting confused here...

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Faisca on May 14th, 2012, 12:31 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 14th, 2012, 04:29 AM
Quote from bussi04 on May 14th, 2012, 03:41 AM
Quote from Sharky on May 14th, 2012, 02:33 AM
...

On the gating, ... the pulses from the feedback signal extend beyond the vco output. What i mean by that is when the gating kicks in the vco output is set low. Coil resonance however will cause a continuing energy exchange between the coils and capacitor, ... that is what is called resonance. So even when gating is on the feedback signal will continue to produce pulses as long as its amplitude is above the opamp minimum. So i think that if gating is too long it will loose its lock as soon as the amplitude gets below the minimum but if we adjust gating to the point where it still produces sufficient feedback signal it should work fine. Maybe that is meant by tuning in to the resonant action?
you are pointing at a serious design issue!

that´s exactly the problem I ran into with my freedom circuit Stan Meyer  4046 rebuild 2 years ago. quite the same circuit design as you are using now. and that´s an important reason why I prefer a µC PLL solution:

1. maybe the coil oscillation while gating has another (higher) frequency than pulsing frequency (higher mode). then 4046 will get a wrong sync signal.

2. when 4046 loses feedback pulse it will restart oscillation after end of gating at minimum adjusted frequency and resynchronize with resonance after some time. that reduces resonant action time frame until next gating takes place. and that means that primary pulse voltage must be reduced for that period of time if VIC wire diameter is designed for operation in resonant condition.

a µC can remember last oscillation frequency and be instantaneously synchronized because it controlles frequency and gating. that´s the way the µC works I´m using.
so I have full control over frequency, resonance detection and gating all the time :-). there is a pulse out signal in non resonant condition and another pulse out for resonant condition. that way one mosfet can pulse with reduced input voltage to go for resonance and another mosfet can pulse full power at resonant condition.

I ran into the same problems you are discussing here and there was no way to go with 4046 in lock mode gating configuration.

maybe you can solve the problem by disconnecting the totem pole connector of 4046 while gating and then the relevant capacitor will preserve its voltage level for some time and maybe until gating is done and then 4046 jumps in at the recent lock frequency. but that takes a brief design review for 4046 configuration and lots of testing before buiding another pcb.
Hi,

I find it interesting if you are using a uC for the circuit.
Please post it in VIC2.0 PCB design ideas, if you want...:cool:

But using the 4046 there is also the scanner circuit. This is why it is so fast scanning for the resonance. The gating frequency is not know yet, but it seems it is slow, say 0.5 to 3 seconds, you want a fast lock-in after gate duty cycle.

Br,
Webmug
I agree with Sharky: Good hypotheses about what happens during the gate "oscillating remnant." It makes perfect sense.
About uC solution, this has always been my choice and we know who had been much better than the version of Meyer, he used the best we had at that time. Today we have much more than one hundred times the minimum.
But all agreed to re-produce the original Meyer and the database to build a new improved circuit.
I already have done three versions uC circuits (PIC 12F675) with and without crystal / clock, very small. Without scanning, resonance lock instantly. time spent = one period to catch a new wave. It seems to be perfect, but I do not know exactly how everything happened in the Meyer.
I think a good idea is a hybrid "uC + 4046", making 4046 a Peripheral uC.
Our success.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Faisca on May 14th, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 14th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 14th, 2012, 11:32 AM
Precisely this is wrong, think it is just to flash the LED.
Look at the diagram of Meyer (figara 7..PCT/US90/06407), the four-position rotary switch (sel range.), Only the first position, the divisor is ignored (I think it's the "0" = start ) and further a = 1/10 2 = 1/100 = 3 1/100.
With this arrangement the driver always wore a tenth of the power to avoid saturating the VIC and ensuring that the FB only produced a square wave, when you get resonance.
The other way, ignoring the divisor, the PLL will lock onto any frequency driver and 50% will always be excited and perhaps saturated.
This makes sense to you?
I'm confirming this in protoboard. It's real!

Success for us all.
"With this arrangement the driver always wore a tenth of the power to avoid saturating the VIC and ensuring that the FB only produced a square wave, when you get resonance" I don't follow.

I'm looking at three versions of the circuit! :huh: and I'm getting confused here...

Br,
Webmug
Which three?
I only refer to the Meyer!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: wfchobby on May 14th, 2012, 07:02 PM
Hi Bussi04,
would it be possible to have a circuit diagram of how the uC and pll are connected in your circuit? It would be most useful for adapting to other uC boards like the arduino
thanks
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on May 15th, 2012, 01:43 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 14th, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 14th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 14th, 2012, 11:32 AM
Precisely this is wrong, think it is just to flash the LED.
Look at the diagram of Meyer (figara 7..PCT/US90/06407), the four-position rotary switch (sel range.), Only the first position, the divisor is ignored (I think it's the "0" = start ) and further a = 1/10 2 = 1/100 = 3 1/100.
With this arrangement the driver always wore a tenth of the power to avoid saturating the VIC and ensuring that the FB only produced a square wave, when you get resonance.
The other way, ignoring the divisor, the PLL will lock onto any frequency driver and 50% will always be excited and perhaps saturated.
This makes sense to you?
I'm confirming this in protoboard. It's real!

Success for us all.
"With this arrangement the driver always wore a tenth of the power to avoid saturating the VIC and ensuring that the FB only produced a square wave, when you get resonance" I don't follow.

I'm looking at three versions of the circuit! :huh: and I'm getting confused here...

Br,
Webmug
Which three?
I only refer to the Meyer!
1. PCT/US90/06407 patent (no TIP120 pickup, 4017, FB)
2. Dynodon photo circuit (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)
3. RWG VIC1.0, VIC1.1 PCB (Sharky) (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)

No switch or 4017 attached in the Photo at the PLL. Pll pin 4. is bypassed. pll pin 3 goes to the driver circuit.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 09:26 AM

Which three?
I only refer to the Meyer![/quote]1. PCT/US90/06407 patent (no TIP120 pickup, 4017, FB)
2. Dynodon photo circuit (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)
3. RWG VIC1.0, VIC1.1 PCB (Sharky) (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)

No switch or 4017 attached in the Photo at the PLL. Pll pin 4. is bypassed. pll pin 3 goes to the driver circuit.

Br,
Webmug[/quote]sorry I had not seen this picture yet.
If this is really original PCB S.Meyer I'm wrong, but where these wires are attached?
How did this stuff (pictures)?
Anyway are not linked together pins 3 and 4 in the PLL, right?
Thank you.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on May 15th, 2012, 01:59 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 09:26 AM
Quote
Which three?
I only refer to the Meyer!
Quote
1. PCT/US90/06407 patent (no TIP120 pickup, 4017, FB)
2. Dynodon photo circuit (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)
3. RWG VIC1.0, VIC1.1 PCB (Sharky) (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)

No switch or 4017 attached in the Photo at the PLL. Pll pin 4. is bypassed. pll pin 3 goes to the driver circuit.

Br,
Webmug
Quote
sorry I had not seen this picture yet.
If this is really original PCB S.Meyer I'm wrong, but where these wires are attached?
How did this stuff (pictures)?
Anyway are not linked together pins 3 and 4 in the PLL, right?
Thank you.
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Stans%20Estate/meyers%20pics%20%2863%29.JPG
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Stans%20Estate/meyers%20pics%20%2868%29.JPG
More detail, the pll pin4. goes to the cell driver circuit (G) and pll pin3. goes to the TIP120 pickup (SIG_PRI), so you can say pin4. and pin3. are connected.

pll pin14. gets the signal from the feedback coil (H).
pll pin5. is the inhibit function (GATING)

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 15th, 2012, 01:59 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 09:26 AM
Quote
Which three?
I only refer to the Meyer!
Quote
1. PCT/US90/06407 patent (no TIP120 pickup, 4017, FB)
2. Dynodon photo circuit (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)
3. RWG VIC1.0, VIC1.1 PCB (Sharky) (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)

No switch or 4017 attached in the Photo at the PLL. Pll pin 4. is bypassed. pll pin 3 goes to the driver circuit.

Br,
Webmug
Quote
sorry I had not seen this picture yet.
If this is really original PCB S.Meyer I'm wrong, but where these wires are attached?
How did this stuff (pictures)?
Anyway are not linked together pins 3 and 4 in the PLL, right?
Thank you.
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Stans%20Estate/meyers%20pics%20%2863%29.JPG
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Stans%20Estate/meyers%20pics%20%2868%29.JPG
More detail, the pll pin4. goes to the cell driver circuit (G) and pll pin3. goes to the TIP120 pickup (SIG_PRI), so you can say pin4. and pin3. are connected.

pll pin14. gets the signal from the feedback coil (H).
pll pin5. is the inhibit function (GATING)

Br,
Webmug
Ok I got, but not exactly together (almost), because that way the delay is discounted Q5 and Q6 (a few uS.).
The transistor Q5 is inverted (C / E), but I think everyone has seen it. It was Q6 2N3055 or TIP120?
All this material was found working?
He had not all been confiscated by the government? (Men in Black)
Sorry for my questions, I had not this information.
It is noticed that there are several ways to do this work, but the main objective is: always catch the best frequency of the device, independent of any variable (temperature, capacitance of the cell and bubbles).
I will make changes in my prototype to see if it works better than before and I'll post.
I realized that with the algorithm (version uC) had no problems with gate. because the delay for a new lock is half cycle. But I do not know if this is good or bad.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 06:27 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 15th, 2012, 01:59 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 09:26 AM
Quote
Which three?
I only refer to the Meyer!
Quote
1. PCT/US90/06407 patent (no TIP120 pickup, 4017, FB)
2. Dynodon photo circuit (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)
3. RWG VIC1.0, VIC1.1 PCB (Sharky) (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)

No switch or 4017 attached in the Photo at the PLL. Pll pin 4. is bypassed. pll pin 3 goes to the driver circuit.

Br,
Webmug
Quote
sorry I had not seen this picture yet.
If this is really original PCB S.Meyer I'm wrong, but where these wires are attached?
How did this stuff (pictures)?
Anyway are not linked together pins 3 and 4 in the PLL, right?
Thank you.
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Stans%20Estate/meyers%20pics%20%2863%29.JPG
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Stans%20Estate/meyers%20pics%20%2868%29.JPG
More detail, the pll pin4. goes to the cell driver circuit (G) and pll pin3. goes to the TIP120 pickup (SIG_PRI), so you can say pin4. and pin3. are connected.

pll pin14. gets the signal from the feedback coil (H).
pll pin5. is the inhibit function (GATING)

Br,
Webmug
Ok I got, but not exactly together (almost), because that way the delay is discounted Q5 and Q6 (a few uS.).
The transistor Q5 is inverted (C / E), but I think everyone has seen it. It was Q6 2N3055 or TIP120?
All this material was found working?
He had not all been confiscated by the government? (Men in Black)
Sorry for my questions, I had not this information.
It is noticed that there are several ways to do this work, but the main objective is: always catch the best frequency of the device, independent of any variable (temperature, capacitance of the cell and bubbles).
I will make changes in my prototype to see if it works better than before and I'll post.
I realized that with the algorithm (version uC) had no problems with gate. because the delay for a new lock is half cycle. But I do not know if this is good or bad.
Referring tests:
I could only tune in sweeping by hand, with a potentiometer, because with these latest modifications (as discussed earlier), is only posivel, the best performance with dphi = 90 °. In this condition the phase comparator (CP2) does not lock and circuit detector is always indicating locking across the range of 300Hz to 20kHz. (all done without a pulse gate).
So I repeat, this is wrong!
Anyone got positive results and can show? (in thats way, such as)
Please.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on May 16th, 2012, 02:23 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 06:27 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 15th, 2012, 01:59 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 09:26 AM
Quote
Which three?
I only refer to the Meyer!
Quote
1. PCT/US90/06407 patent (no TIP120 pickup, 4017, FB)
2. Dynodon photo circuit (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)
3. RWG VIC1.0, VIC1.1 PCB (Sharky) (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)

No switch or 4017 attached in the Photo at the PLL. Pll pin 4. is bypassed. pll pin 3 goes to the driver circuit.

Br,
Webmug
Quote
sorry I had not seen this picture yet.
If this is really original PCB S.Meyer I'm wrong, but where these wires are attached?
How did this stuff (pictures)?
Anyway are not linked together pins 3 and 4 in the PLL, right?
Thank you.
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Stans%20Estate/meyers%20pics%20%2863%29.JPG
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Stans%20Estate/meyers%20pics%20%2868%29.JPG
More detail, the pll pin4. goes to the cell driver circuit (G) and pll pin3. goes to the TIP120 pickup (SIG_PRI), so you can say pin4. and pin3. are connected.

pll pin14. gets the signal from the feedback coil (H).
pll pin5. is the inhibit function (GATING)

Br,
Webmug
Ok I got, but not exactly together (almost), because that way the delay is discounted Q5 and Q6 (a few uS.).
The transistor Q5 is inverted (C / E), but I think everyone has seen it. It was Q6 2N3055 or TIP120?
All this material was found working?
He had not all been confiscated by the government? (Men in Black)
Sorry for my questions, I had not this information.
It is noticed that there are several ways to do this work, but the main objective is: always catch the best frequency of the device, independent of any variable (temperature, capacitance of the cell and bubbles).
I will make changes in my prototype to see if it works better than before and I'll post.
I realized that with the algorithm (version uC) had no problems with gate. because the delay for a new lock is half cycle. But I do not know if this is good or bad.
Referring tests:
I could only tune in sweeping by hand, with a potentiometer, because with these latest modifications (as discussed earlier), is only posivel, the best performance with dphi = 90 °. In this condition the phase comparator (CP2) does not lock and circuit detector is always indicating locking across the range of 300Hz to 20kHz. (all done without a pulse gate).
So I repeat, this is wrong!
Anyone got positive results and can show? (in thats way, such as)
Please.
Hi Faisca,

pll pin14. pulse 16.6kHz from my waveform generator as refIn I could lock-in with the circuit from Sharky. If the pulse was below or higher than the vco settings (R1,R2 C1-2) then the scanner is on free-run, no lock. (PLL VCO voltage min. to max. to min from the scanner)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCLCG_6I18
You can see when I change the RefIn pll pin14. input signal in frequency the pll locks-in.
Blue is pll pin3. signal Yellow is pll pin4 Fout.
Second part is the yellow signal at the TIP120 SIG_PRI.

First I wanted to build the "cell driver circuit" from Stan but I can not make it work.
Perhaps you are able to make it work. For now I use the BC556 driver for the TIP120.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5KQn8oVDpo

Here you can see the Gating active, the pll tries to lock but it fails to keep it locked in the gate time and tries to lock-in again after inhibit is disabled. Yellow is the feedback signal from the opamp. Don''t mind the pulse shape it is not perfect! Should be 50% block pulse I guess.

All this I build on a breadboard. This is what I have so far...

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on May 16th, 2012, 05:28 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 16th, 2012, 02:23 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 06:27 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 15th, 2012, 01:59 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 15th, 2012, 09:26 AM
Quote
Which three?
I only refer to the Meyer!
Quote
1. PCT/US90/06407 patent (no TIP120 pickup, 4017, FB)
2. Dynodon photo circuit (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)
3. RWG VIC1.0, VIC1.1 PCB (Sharky) (TIP120 pickup, FB, no 4017)

No switch or 4017 attached in the Photo at the PLL. Pll pin 4. is bypassed. pll pin 3 goes to the driver circuit.

Br,
Webmug
Quote
sorry I had not seen this picture yet.
If this is really original PCB S.Meyer I'm wrong, but where these wires are attached?
How did this stuff (pictures)?
Anyway are not linked together pins 3 and 4 in the PLL, right?
Thank you.
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Stans%20Estate/meyers%20pics%20%2863%29.JPG
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Stans%20Estate/meyers%20pics%20%2868%29.JPG
More detail, the pll pin4. goes to the cell driver circuit (G) and pll pin3. goes to the TIP120 pickup (SIG_PRI), so you can say pin4. and pin3. are connected.

pll pin14. gets the signal from the feedback coil (H).
pll pin5. is the inhibit function (GATING)

Br,
Webmug
Ok I got, but not exactly together (almost), because that way the delay is discounted Q5 and Q6 (a few uS.).
The transistor Q5 is inverted (C / E), but I think everyone has seen it. It was Q6 2N3055 or TIP120?
All this material was found working?
He had not all been confiscated by the government? (Men in Black)
Sorry for my questions, I had not this information.
It is noticed that there are several ways to do this work, but the main objective is: always catch the best frequency of the device, independent of any variable (temperature, capacitance of the cell and bubbles).
I will make changes in my prototype to see if it works better than before and I'll post.
I realized that with the algorithm (version uC) had no problems with gate. because the delay for a new lock is half cycle. But I do not know if this is good or bad.
Referring tests:
I could only tune in sweeping by hand, with a potentiometer, because with these latest modifications (as discussed earlier), is only posivel, the best performance with dphi = 90 °. In this condition the phase comparator (CP2) does not lock and circuit detector is always indicating locking across the range of 300Hz to 20kHz. (all done without a pulse gate).
So I repeat, this is wrong!
Anyone got positive results and can show? (in thats way, such as)
Please.
Hi Faisca,

pll pin14. pulse 16.6kHz from my waveform generator as refIn I could lock-in with the circuit from Sharky. If the pulse was below or higher than the vco settings (R1,R2 C1-2) then the scanner is on free-run, no lock. (PLL VCO voltage min. to max. to min from the scanner)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCLCG_6I18
You can see when I change the RefIn pll pin14. input signal in frequency the pll locks-in.
Blue is pll pin3. signal Yellow is pll pin4 Fout.
Second part is the yellow signal at the TIP120 SIG_PRI.

First I wanted to build the "cell driver circuit" from Stan but I can not make it work.
Perhaps you are able to make it work. For now I use the BC556 driver for the TIP120.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5KQn8oVDpo

Here you can see the Gating active, the pll tries to lock but it fails to keep it locked in the gate time and tries to lock-in again after inhibit is disabled. Yellow is the feedback signal from the opamp. Don''t mind the pulse shape it is not perfect! Should be 50% block pulse I guess.

All this I build on a breadboard. This is what I have so far...

Br,
Webmug
Looks like you almost have it webmug.:cool::D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on May 16th, 2012, 05:36 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on May 16th, 2012, 05:28 AM
Looks like you almost have it webmug.:cool::D
Hi Jeff,

Far from it, this is only just the beginning. :cool: :D

Br,
Webmug

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on May 16th, 2012, 07:26 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 16th, 2012, 05:36 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on May 16th, 2012, 05:28 AM
Looks like you almost have it webmug.:cool::D
Hi Jeff,

Far from it, this is only just the beginning. :cool: :D

Br,
Webmug
Just words of encouragement, not talking about the whole picture, just the small section you are working in, so, it's a good job you guy's are doing. There are allot of people following your lead that aren't posting, thanks for helping us along the way, Jeff.:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: MrBluesky on May 16th, 2012, 07:31 AM
Im sure half of you got this e-mail from Jameco but I figured Id post it any way. "Design an electronics project, we’ll kit it and pay you a royalty every time it sells!" Maybe someone could make a VIC kit so that newcomers and stuff can more easily get started! Heres the link: http://links.enews.jameco.com/servlet/MailView?ms=NDA3ODgxMgS2&r=MTk3NzMxMjY0ODkS1&j=MTI1MTM2MDU3S0&mt=1&rt=0
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: ~Russ on May 17th, 2012, 01:34 AM
Quote from MrBluesky on May 16th, 2012, 07:31 AM
Im sure half of you got this e-mail from Jameco but I figured Id post it any way. "Design an electronics project, we’ll kit it and pay you a royalty every time it sells!" Maybe someone could make a VIC kit so that newcomers and stuff can more easily get started! Heres the link: http://links.enews.jameco.com/servlet/MailView?ms=NDA3ODgxMgS2&r=MTk3NzMxMjY0ODkS1&j=MTI1MTM2MDU3S0&mt=1&rt=0
i think your correct!
but i also must say that this in not in the stages of a "kit". at this moment i think this is still in heavy development. but once we get a clearer grip on this it will be a much needed thing!

as for now...

Sharky, do you still have a parts list and a link to the parts on mouser?

could you post it in the first post?

MrBluesky,

that will be a good start?

thanks! good to see others post there thoughts on making this easier for us all! :)

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 17th, 2012, 02:44 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 16th, 2012, 02:23 AM
Hi Faisca,

pll pin14. pulse 16.6kHz from my waveform generator as refIn I could lock-in with the circuit from Sharky. If the pulse was below or higher than the vco settings (R1,R2 C1-2) then the scanner is on free-run, no lock. (PLL VCO voltage min. to max. to min from the scanner)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCLCG_6I18
You can see when I change the RefIn pll pin14. input signal in frequency the pll locks-in.
Blue is pll pin3. signal Yellow is pll pin4 Fout.
Second part is the yellow signal at the TIP120 SIG_PRI.

First I wanted to build the "cell driver circuit" from Stan but I can not make it work.
Perhaps you are able to make it work. For now I use the BC556 driver for the TIP120.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5KQn8oVDpo

Here you can see the Gating active, the pll tries to lock but it fails to keep it locked in the gate time and tries to lock-in again after inhibit is disabled. Yellow is the feedback signal from the opamp. Don''t mind the pulse shape it is not perfect! Should be 50% block pulse I guess.

All this I build on a breadboard. This is what I have so far...

Br,
Webmug
Thanks, Webmug.
Your test is correct (I also did), but not how it proceeds in Meyer PLL to lock in the best wave.
I'm sending the diagrams of the two versions that I have succeeded.
All this I build on a breadboard, too.
"v1" Pseudo Meyer, somewhat modified.
"V2": The same, without scanning (not needed) operates automatic.
Have fun.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 18th, 2012, 02:29 PM

I'm sending the diagrams of the two versions that I have succeeded.
All this I build on a breadboard, too.
"v1" Pseudo Meyer, somewhat modified.
"V2": The same, without scanning (not needed) operates automatic.
Have fun.[/quote]I'm re-sending the diagrams of the two versions. Now, very well.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on May 19th, 2012, 01:20 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 18th, 2012, 02:29 PM
I'm sending the diagrams of the two versions that I have succeeded.
All this I build on a breadboard, too.
"v1" Pseudo Meyer, somewhat modified.
"V2": The same, without scanning (not needed) operates automatic.
Have fun.

I'm re-sending the diagrams of the two versions. Now, very well.
Don't know for sure, but I think the scanning is needed when the gate is active.

Russ, Sharky, do you got time to test the pcb and post some info?:D

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: ~Russ on May 19th, 2012, 03:03 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 19th, 2012, 01:20 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 18th, 2012, 02:29 PM
I'm sending the diagrams of the two versions that I have succeeded.
All this I build on a breadboard, too.
"v1" Pseudo Meyer, somewhat modified.
"V2": The same, without scanning (not needed) operates automatic.
Have fun.

I'm re-sending the diagrams of the two versions. Now, very well.
Don't know for sure, but I think the scanning is needed when the gate is active.

Russ, Sharky, do you got time to test the pcb and post some info?:D

Br,
Webmug
cores will be in next week... then i can do some real tests.

at the moment, when i turn on gating it kinda skips around. it seems to act odd.

but it dose lock on at a very low frequency. this is with an iron core. so the ferrite will be a huge help...

do you need me to still test the output of tony's circuit like you asked before? and if so. what did you need me to test?

tanks! ~Russ

PS. keep up the good work and ideas guys! its grate to see everyone getting along! ;0
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on May 19th, 2012, 03:16 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 19th, 2012, 03:03 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 19th, 2012, 01:20 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 18th, 2012, 02:29 PM
I'm sending the diagrams of the two versions that I have succeeded.
All this I build on a breadboard, too.
"v1" Pseudo Meyer, somewhat modified.
"V2": The same, without scanning (not needed) operates automatic.
Have fun.

I'm re-sending the diagrams of the two versions. Now, very well.
Don't know for sure, but I think the scanning is needed when the gate is active.

Russ, Sharky, do you got time to test the pcb and post some info?:D

Br,
Webmug
cores will be in next week... then i can do some real tests.

at the moment, when i turn on gating it kinda skips around. it seems to act odd.

but it dose lock on at a very low frequency. this is with an iron core. so the ferrite will be a huge help...

do you need me to still test the output of tony's circuit like you asked before? and if so. what did you need me to test?

tanks! ~Russ

PS. keep up the good work and ideas guys! its grate to see everyone getting along! ;0
Yes, Russ!

The output of Tony's PCB if you can test it, would be great (it's a good pcb but I have not managed to get it to work)
Compare PLL output pin4. with cell driver output at the TIP120 where the pickup is and after the resistor cap going into the PLL again Pin3.

If you can compare Tony and sharky pcb's would be useful. Why, because of the 50% duty-cycle thing. :cool:

Yes ,the resonance frequency with iron core is very low compared with the ferrite.
The settings on Sharky pcb are for higher frequency so getting resonance with the iron core you have to change the cap and R1,R2 resistors. (voltage should be very low on resonance with iron core :D)

Thanks!

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 19th, 2012, 08:04 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 19th, 2012, 01:20 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 18th, 2012, 02:29 PM
I'm sending the diagrams of the two versions that I have succeeded.
All this I build on a breadboard, too.
"v1" Pseudo Meyer, somewhat modified.
"V2": The same, without scanning (not needed) operates automatic.
Have fun.

I'm re-sending the diagrams of the two versions. Now, very well.
Don't know for sure, but I think the scanning is needed when the gate is active.

Russ, Sharky, do you got time to test the pcb and post some info?:D

Br,
Webmug
hello Webmug.
You are right in the pcb Meyer. Not in this topology (v2), which I presented, it is not necessary. In this, you can use the gate (pin 5, on/off), and always will be locked, only taking one cycle or less.
But in the version with scanning (v1, like the Meyer), the same test was bad and often taking longer, locking wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong, in the form of testing.
How do you testing this?
See my test provisional.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on May 20th, 2012, 02:10 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 19th, 2012, 08:04 AM
hello Webmug.
You are right in the pcb Meyer. Not in this topology (v2), which I presented, it is not necessary. In this, you can use the gate (pin 5, on/off), and always will be locked, only taking one cycle or less.
But in the version with scanning (v1, like the Meyer), the same test was bad and often taking longer, locking wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong, in the form of testing.
How do you testing this?
See my test provisional.
Hi Faisca,

I test it with my VIC feedback coil and circuit (AC=resonance) and a waveform generator set as pulse (bypass the opamp)

Getting resonance on the secondary coil at 16.6kHz with Sharky ("meyer") circuit.

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=311&pid=4798#pid4798

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 22nd, 2012, 07:20 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 20th, 2012, 02:10 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 19th, 2012, 08:04 AM
hello Webmug.
You are right in the pcb Meyer. Not in this topology (v2), which I presented, it is not necessary. In this, you can use the gate (pin 5, on/off), and always will be locked, only taking one cycle or less.
But in the version with scanning (v1, like the Meyer), the same test was bad and often taking longer, locking wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong, in the form of testing.
How do you testing this?
See my test provisional.
Hi Faisca,

I test it with my VIC feedback coil and circuit (AC=resonance) and a waveform generator set as pulse (bypass the opamp)

Getting resonance on the secondary coil at 16.6kHz with Sharky ("meyer") circuit.

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=311&pid=4798#pid4798

Br,
Webmug
I'm showing a test done with PLL dphi 90 ° uC.
Notice when I change the capacitor, with what speed is locked in the new frequency.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etYHZbGfgIo
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 23rd, 2012, 07:47 PM
Good night, folks.
I made many tests with the PLL and gate pulse, but did not like it very much. I'll show some pictures.
The results more similar to our objective, we obtained shortening the gate and also scan for 55ms.
It's not perfect, and very unstable to catch, I think this diagram and pcb of S.Meyer shown, are not good, perhaps a prototype failed or changed to misinform (still can not believe that the MIB will allow this).
Anyway I think we got the idea, just have to re-shape it to work.
Tomorrow I will do the same tests (with gate) using my version uC.
See you soon.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on May 23rd, 2012, 08:34 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 23rd, 2012, 07:47 PM
Good night, folks.
I made many tests with the PLL and gate pulse, but did not like it very much. I'll show some pictures.
The results more similar to our objective, we obtained shortening the gate and also scan for 55ms.
It's not perfect, and very unstable to catch, I think this diagram and pcb of S.Meyer shown, are not good, perhaps a prototype failed or changed to misinform (still can not believe that the MIB will allow this).
Anyway I think we got the idea, just have to re-shape it to work.
Tomorrow I will do the same tests (with gate) using my version uC.
See you soon.
Thanks for the hard work Faisca. :D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on May 24th, 2012, 03:50 PM
A little question guys, I almost completed my vic..but i canot find ecg918m(on the pulse indicator) op. amp.can i use lm741? i saw the pins are the same,but differents a little in the inside...Thanks in advance
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 24th, 2012, 05:13 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 22nd, 2012, 07:20 PM
Quote from Webmug on May 20th, 2012, 02:10 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 19th, 2012, 08:04 AM
hello Webmug.
You are right in the pcb Meyer. Not in this topology (v2), which I presented, it is not necessary. In this, you can use the gate (pin 5, on/off), and always will be locked, only taking one cycle or less.
But in the version with scanning (v1, like the Meyer), the same test was bad and often taking longer, locking wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong, in the form of testing.
How do you testing this?
See my test provisional.
Hi Faisca,

I test it with my VIC feedback coil and circuit (AC=resonance) and a waveform generator set as pulse (bypass the opamp)

Getting resonance on the secondary coil at 16.6kHz with Sharky ("meyer") circuit.

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=311&pid=4798#pid4798

Br,
Webmug
I'm showing a test done with PLL dphi 90 ° uC.
Notice when I change the capacitor, with what speed is locked in the new frequency.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etYHZbGfgIo
hi webmug.
But if you have used the generator, its vic locked with the generator. This proves nothing, only copied the PLL frequency of this generator.
Why not use the coil FB? Where the loop/link is closed?
I'll build a transformer vic (or the closest) and continue with the tests. Still, I think that for proof of my PLL resonance is sufficient to test the concept.
Success for us.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: ~Russ on May 25th, 2012, 01:23 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 19th, 2012, 03:16 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 19th, 2012, 03:03 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 19th, 2012, 01:20 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 18th, 2012, 02:29 PM
I'm sending the diagrams of the two versions that I have succeeded.
All this I build on a breadboard, too.
"v1" Pseudo Meyer, somewhat modified.
"V2": The same, without scanning (not needed) operates automatic.
Have fun.

I'm re-sending the diagrams of the two versions. Now, very well.
Don't know for sure, but I think the scanning is needed when the gate is active.

Russ, Sharky, do you got time to test the pcb and post some info?:D

Br,
Webmug
cores will be in next week... then i can do some real tests.

at the moment, when i turn on gating it kinda skips around. it seems to act odd.

but it dose lock on at a very low frequency. this is with an iron core. so the ferrite will be a huge help...

do you need me to still test the output of tony's circuit like you asked before? and if so. what did you need me to test?

tanks! ~Russ

PS. keep up the good work and ideas guys! its grate to see everyone getting along! ;0
Yes, Russ!

The output of Tony's PCB if you can test it, would be great (it's a good pcb but I have not managed to get it to work)
Compare PLL output pin4. with cell driver output at the TIP120 where the pickup is and after the resistor cap going into the PLL again Pin3.

If you can compare Tony and sharky pcb's would be useful. Why, because of the 50% duty-cycle thing. :cool:

Yes ,the resonance frequency with iron core is very low compared with the ferrite.
The settings on Sharky pcb are for higher frequency so getting resonance with the iron core you have to change the cap and R1,R2 resistors. (voltage should be very low on resonance with iron core :D)

Thanks!

Br,
Webmug
i fail'd to do the test with tony's circuit! i had to send the circuit back to my buddy. i will have him do it, or tony, if you read this can you check it out?

thanks guys! to much going on! :) lol

~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on May 25th, 2012, 02:04 AM
Russ,and others can you help me ?I  am confused with the transistors on the VIC card:
2n2222 to-18(metal case)=is only  NPN or is PNP too? because the B,C,E on the cell driver is different from the others,which are wich?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on May 25th, 2012, 03:09 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 25th, 2012, 02:04 AM
Russ,and others can you help me ?I  am confused with the transistors on the VIC card:
2n2222 to-18(metal case)=is only  NPN or is PNP too? because the B,C,E on the cell driver is different from the others,which are wich?
Hi,

The 2N2222 is an NPN type.
TO-18 is the metal can type. TO-92 is the plastic type.
The 2N2907 is an equally popular (PNP) transistor complementary to the 2N2222.

The 2N3904 is an NPN transistor that can only switch one-third the current of the 2N2222 but has otherwise similar characteristics.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on May 25th, 2012, 04:09 AM
Quote
hi webmug.
 But if you have used the generator, its vic locked with the generator. This proves nothing, only copied the PLL frequency of this generator.
 Why not use the coil FB? Where the loop/link is closed?
 I'll build a transformer vic (or the closest) and continue with the tests. Still, I think that for proof of my PLL resonance is sufficient to test the concept.
 Success for us.
Hi,

I also tested this with the FB coil scanning for resonance on the secondary coil.

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on May 25th, 2012, 08:13 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 25th, 2012, 03:09 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 25th, 2012, 02:04 AM
Russ,and others can you help me ?I  am confused with the transistors on the VIC card:
2n2222 to-18(metal case)=is only  NPN or is PNP too? because the B,C,E on the cell driver is different from the others,which are wich?
Hi,

The 2N2222 is an NPN type.
TO-18 is the metal can type. TO-92 is the plastic type.
The 2N2907 is an equally popular (PNP) transistor complementary to the 2N2222.

The 2N3904 is an NPN transistor that can only switch one-third the current of the 2N2222 but has otherwise similar characteristics.

Br,
Webmug

Thanks Webmug,I know the 2n2222 metal case is a NPN but ,look at the att,my drawnings are corect? look at the secound 2n2222 starting from bottom of page on the cell driver that is PNP? because it has B,C,E and othets metal case 2n's has B,E,C writen on the pcb..please reply

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on May 25th, 2012, 12:17 PM
Quote from adys15 on May 25th, 2012, 08:13 AM
Quote from Webmug on May 25th, 2012, 03:09 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 25th, 2012, 02:04 AM
Russ,and others can you help me ?I  am confused with the transistors on the VIC card:
2n2222 to-18(metal case)=is only  NPN or is PNP too? because the B,C,E on the cell driver is different from the others,which are wich?
Hi,

The 2N2222 is an NPN type.
TO-18 is the metal can type. TO-92 is the plastic type.
The 2N2907 is an equally popular (PNP) transistor complementary to the 2N2222.

The 2N3904 is an NPN transistor that can only switch one-third the current of the 2N2222 but has otherwise similar characteristics.

Br,
Webmug

Thanks Webmug,I know the 2n2222 metal case is a NPN but ,look at the att,my drawnings are corect? look at the secound 2n2222 starting from bottom of page on the cell driver that is PNP? because it has B,C,E and othets metal case 2n's has B,E,C writen on the pcb..please reply
Hi,

Yes, I see something is different with the placed 2N2222.
I think the base (middle) was bend to the other side in the pcb. looks like it is a different type but it is the same 2N2222.  22 is readable from side view. Can't find other NPN with xNxx22???

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on May 26th, 2012, 10:19 AM
Can you guys tell me if i done the corect conections on the VIC card I trace them with Don's spec's,please corect me, i'm confused with the baterry pozitive is on pin 3 top,and also pin 5 top/bottom...Tony would know beter because he design the skematic:D ,so Tony if you can corect it please see att
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: pakakezu on May 27th, 2012, 11:41 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 26th, 2012, 10:19 AM
Can you guys tell me if i done the corect conections on the VIC card I trace them with Don's spec's,please corect me, i'm confused with the baterry pozitive is on pin 3 top,and also pin 5 top/bottom...Tony would know beter because he design the skematic:D ,so Tony if you can corect it please see att
Be careful, at your schematic the D6 D7 diode types are interchanged, compared to stans original.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on May 27th, 2012, 01:19 PM
Quote from pakakezu on May 27th, 2012, 11:41 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 26th, 2012, 10:19 AM
Can you guys tell me if i done the corect conections on the VIC card I trace them with Don's spec's,please corect me, i'm confused with the baterry pozitive is on pin 3 top,and also pin 5 top/bottom...Tony would know beter because he design the skematic:D ,so Tony if you can corect it please see att
Be careful, at your schematic the D6 D7 diode types are interchanged, compared to stans original.
Yea,I see maibe Don made a mistake when noted pin 6 and 7 on the cell driver patent skematic,that way is the original and that is on Tony sch.but the big problem is:what is pin 1 top.pin 2 top 3 ,4,and 1/2 bottom.I see there are 2 power lines pin 2 i think and 5 top

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on May 29th, 2012, 02:23 PM
Can you guys tell me if i done the corect conections on the VIC?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 12:36 AM
Another q:what is th''ANL/FREQ.'' swich on the vic card...see att and corect me if i mistake
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 08:17 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 12:36 AM
Another q:what is th''ANL/FREQ.'' swich on the vic card...see att and corect me if i mistake
hi adys.
You will find them in the figures of the document "PCT/US90/06407."
"Gain": fig. 4
"Off / Set": fig. 4
"Osc / On": fig. 7
"Var / Off / 12": fig. 4
"Man / Auto": fig. 8
"Cell / On": fig. 6 (red?)
"Anl / Freq": fig. 2
"Man / Adjust": fig. 8
Success.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 08:17 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 12:36 AM
Another q:what is th''ANL/FREQ.'' swich on the vic card...see att and corect me if i mistake
hi adys.
You will find them in the figures of the document "PCT/US90/06407."
"Gain": fig. 4
"Off / Set": fig. 4
"Osc / On": fig. 7
"Var / Off / 12": fig. 4
"Man / Auto": fig. 8
"Cell / On": fig. 6 (red?)
"Anl / Freq": fig. 2
"Man / Adjust": fig. 8
Success.
Oh man!thanks,but for 5 monts i look at this pics and patents,and know verry well where i find the pots,but I'm not american and I don't understand verry well this electronical comands...''offset'' ''anl.''etc so tell me what the
pots do!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 10:09 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 08:17 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 12:36 AM
Another q:what is th''ANL/FREQ.'' swich on the vic card...see att and corect me if i mistake
hi adys.
You will find them in the figures of the document "PCT/US90/06407."
"Gain": fig. 4
"Off / Set": fig. 4
"Osc / On": fig. 7
"Var / Off / 12": fig. 4
"Man / Auto": fig. 8
"Cell / On": fig. 6 (red?)
"Anl / Freq": fig. 2
"Man / Adjust": fig. 8
Success.
Oh man!thanks,but for 5 monts i look at this pics and patents,and know verry well where i find the pots,but I'm not american and I don't understand verry well this electronical comands...''offset'' ''anl.''etc so tell me what the
pots do!
But this is in basic electronics, anywhere in the world. I'm not American either. What is your education in electronics? (without harm).
These potentiometers are pre-fixed settings. "Off-Set" = initial value. "Gain" = amount of amplification input / output
I hope this helps. But if your knowledge is poor, will be an adventure, for it comes from "reverse engineering". On the other hand, if everything is correct in the diagrams, anyone can do the job.
Success and good learning.
Pd.: Where are you from?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 10:34 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 10:09 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 08:17 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 12:36 AM
Another q:what is th''ANL/FREQ.'' swich on the vic card...see att and corect me if i mistake
hi adys.
You will find them in the figures of the document "PCT/US90/06407."
"Gain": fig. 4
"Off / Set": fig. 4
"Osc / On": fig. 7
"Var / Off / 12": fig. 4
"Man / Auto": fig. 8
"Cell / On": fig. 6 (red?)
"Anl / Freq": fig. 2
"Man / Adjust": fig. 8
Success.
Oh man!thanks,but for 5 monts i look at this pics and patents,and know verry well where i find the pots,but I'm not american and I don't understand verry well this electronical comands...''offset'' ''anl.''etc so tell me what the
pots do!
But this is in basic electronics, anywhere in the world. I'm not American either. What is your education in electronics? (without harm).
These potentiometers are pre-fixed settings. "Off-Set" = initial value. "Gain" = amount of amplification input / output
I hope this helps. But if your knowledge is poor, will be an adventure, for it comes from "reverse engineering". On the other hand, if everything is correct in the diagrams, anyone can do the job.
Success and good learning.
Pd.: Where are you from?
No harm done I do not have any degree in electronics,I im still learning,I know what and how the internal components works,but those pots give me a headeach I have almost completed the vic card,untill then i want to know his complete workings,I hate to built something and dont know how it works,I know they are pre-fixed setings but wanted to know,so:when you turn the ''gain '' you adjust the voltage amplitude going to the cell,and when tou turn the offset''you reset it?and for the ''ANL/FREQ''swich what do you think?look at Don's skematic it conects the cell driver and then pin 3 at 4046..so...
I am from East Europe...(Romania) so escuse my bad english and poor electronics but i came long way from ''0'' to Dave Lawton to learning the basics and then to Stan's VIC ..still strugleing to understand the sistems.Thanks for response!!

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 12:55 PM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 10:34 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 10:09 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 08:17 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 12:36 AM
Another q:what is th''ANL/FREQ.'' swich on the vic card...see att and corect me if i mistake
hi adys.
You will find them in the figures of the document "PCT/US90/06407."
"Gain": fig. 4
"Off / Set": fig. 4
"Osc / On": fig. 7
"Var / Off / 12": fig. 4
"Man / Auto": fig. 8
"Cell / On": fig. 6 (red?)
"Anl / Freq": fig. 2
"Man / Adjust": fig. 8
Success.
Oh man!thanks,but for 5 monts i look at this pics and patents,and know verry well where i find the pots,but I'm not american and I don't understand verry well this electronical comands...''offset'' ''anl.''etc so tell me what the
pots do!
But this is in basic electronics, anywhere in the world. I'm not American either. What is your education in electronics? (without harm).
These potentiometers are pre-fixed settings. "Off-Set" = initial value. "Gain" = amount of amplification input / output
I hope this helps. But if your knowledge is poor, will be an adventure, for it comes from "reverse engineering". On the other hand, if everything is correct in the diagrams, anyone can do the job.
Success and good learning.
Pd.: Where are you from?
No harm done I do not have any degree in electronics,I im still learning,I know what and how the internal components works,but those pots give me a headeach I have almost completed the vic card,untill then i want to know his complete workings,I hate to built something and dont know how it works,I know they are pre-fixed setings but wanted to know,so:when you turn the ''gain '' you adjust the voltage amplitude going to the cell,and when tou turn the offset''you reset it?and for the ''ANL/FREQ''swich what do you think?look at Don's skematic it conects the cell driver and then pin 3 at 4046..so...
I am from East Europe...(Romania) so escuse my bad english and poor electronics but i came long way from ''0'' to Dave Lawton to learning the basics and then to Stan's VIC ..still strugleing to understand the sistems.Thanks for response!!
Gain is adjusted so that when the input signal range from minimum to maximum, the output will have a value of minimum and maximum desired.
"Off Set": is set to determine the beginning of the process of "gain".
'' ANL / FREQ'': only for testing purpose during the setup.
  Digital: processed in "DIGITAL CONTROL MEANS" (fig. 2).
Analog: processed in the "ANALOG VOLTAGE GENERATOR" (Fig. 3).
As the pin 3 ... 4046 this link has been modified to Minimise propagation delays.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 01:17 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 12:55 PM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 10:34 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 10:09 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 08:17 AM
hi adys.
You will find them in the figures of the document "PCT/US90/06407."
"Gain": fig. 4
"Off / Set": fig. 4
"Osc / On": fig. 7
"Var / Off / 12": fig. 4
"Man / Auto": fig. 8
"Cell / On": fig. 6 (red?)
"Anl / Freq": fig. 2
"Man / Adjust": fig. 8
Success.
Oh man!thanks,but for 5 monts i look at this pics and patents,and know verry well where i find the pots,but I'm not american and I don't understand verry well this electronical comands...''offset'' ''anl.''etc so tell me what the
pots do!
But this is in basic electronics, anywhere in the world. I'm not American either. What is your education in electronics? (without harm).
These potentiometers are pre-fixed settings. "Off-Set" = initial value. "Gain" = amount of amplification input / output
I hope this helps. But if your knowledge is poor, will be an adventure, for it comes from "reverse engineering". On the other hand, if everything is correct in the diagrams, anyone can do the job.
Success and good learning.
Pd.: Where are you from?
No harm done I do not have any degree in electronics,I im still learning,I know what and how the internal components works,but those pots give me a headeach I have almost completed the vic card,untill then i want to know his complete workings,I hate to built something and dont know how it works,I know they are pre-fixed setings but wanted to know,so:when you turn the ''gain '' you adjust the voltage amplitude going to the cell,and when tou turn the offset''you reset it?and for the ''ANL/FREQ''swich what do you think?look at Don's skematic it conects the cell driver and then pin 3 at 4046..so...
I am from East Europe...(Romania) so escuse my bad english and poor electronics but i came long way from ''0'' to Dave Lawton to learning the basics and then to Stan's VIC ..still strugleing to understand the sistems.Thanks for response!!
Gain is adjusted so that when the input signal range from minimum to maximum, the output will have a value of minimum and maximum desired.
"Off Set": is set to determine the beginning of the process of "gain".
'' ANL / FREQ'': only for testing purpose during the setup.
  Digital: processed in "DIGITAL CONTROL MEANS" (fig. 2).
Analog: processed in the "ANALOG VOLTAGE GENERATOR" (Fig. 3).
As the pin 3 ... 4046 this link has been modified to Minimise propagation delays.
Thank verry much I understand now,my question was dum ...but anyway thanks for explaining in such much detail,Br.Ady
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on May 30th, 2012, 02:10 PM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 01:17 PM
Quote from Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 12:55 PM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 10:34 AM
Quote from Faisca on May 30th, 2012, 10:09 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 30th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Oh man!thanks,but for 5 monts i look at this pics and patents,and know verry well where i find the pots,but I'm not american and I don't understand verry well this electronical comands...''offset'' ''anl.''etc so tell me what the
pots do!
But this is in basic electronics, anywhere in the world. I'm not American either. What is your education in electronics? (without harm).
These potentiometers are pre-fixed settings. "Off-Set" = initial value. "Gain" = amount of amplification input / output
I hope this helps. But if your knowledge is poor, will be an adventure, for it comes from "reverse engineering". On the other hand, if everything is correct in the diagrams, anyone can do the job.
Success and good learning.
Pd.: Where are you from?
No harm done I do not have any degree in electronics,I im still learning,I know what and how the internal components works,but those pots give me a headeach I have almost completed the vic card,untill then i want to know his complete workings,I hate to built something and dont know how it works,I know they are pre-fixed setings but wanted to know,so:when you turn the ''gain '' you adjust the voltage amplitude going to the cell,and when tou turn the offset''you reset it?and for the ''ANL/FREQ''swich what do you think?look at Don's skematic it conects the cell driver and then pin 3 at 4046..so...
I am from East Europe...(Romania) so escuse my bad english and poor electronics but i came long way from ''0'' to Dave Lawton to learning the basics and then to Stan's VIC ..still strugleing to understand the sistems.Thanks for response!!
Gain is adjusted so that when the input signal range from minimum to maximum, the output will have a value of minimum and maximum desired.
"Off Set": is set to determine the beginning of the process of "gain".
'' ANL / FREQ'': only for testing purpose during the setup.
  Digital: processed in "DIGITAL CONTROL MEANS" (fig. 2).
Analog: processed in the "ANALOG VOLTAGE GENERATOR" (Fig. 3).
As the pin 3 ... 4046 this link has been modified to Minimise propagation delays.
Thank verry much I understand now,my question was dum ...but anyway thanks for explaining in such much detail,Br.Ady
Great help guy's.:cool::D:P
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 3rd, 2012, 12:08 AM
Hy guys take a look at the cell driver drawing and answer if you want/can
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 4th, 2012, 07:50 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 3rd, 2012, 12:08 AM
Hy guys take a look at the cell driver drawing and answer if you want/can
I did not catch your question well, but the two diodes are correct: the "4005" is a short-circuit the surge absorbing positive about the transistor, and the "5A1KU" blocks the negative pulse. With this the primary only receives the square wave pulse, the transistor protects and guarantees the primary unipolar pulse.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 4th, 2012, 01:26 PM
Quote from Faisca on June 4th, 2012, 07:50 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 3rd, 2012, 12:08 AM
Hy guys take a look at the cell driver drawing and answer if you want/can
I did not catch your question well, but the two diodes are correct: the "4005" is a short-circuit the surge absorbing positive about the transistor, and the "5A1KU" blocks the negative pulse. With this the primary only receives the square wave pulse, the transistor protects and guarantees the primary unipolar pulse.
Thanks for reply!I mean when a square wave(lets say 2 volts) is present at tip120 base,the tip 120 is using those 12v aplied at the pin6(finish of the primary coil).Let's say the pulse is 50% duty cycle 3secounds and 3 secounds MARK,whel pulse is on the base receives 5volts square wave and the tip 120 trigers the C,Emiter,and closes the circuit with the GND.After 3 secounds the pulses stops ,the tip 120 closes the circuit and the back EMF is traveling backwards(see green arrow)when this happens the 4005 blocks the EMF.My question was why the 1kv5a is not uset instead of 4005and  is used to drive 12v to Colector/Em. of tip120
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 4th, 2012, 02:00 PM
Quote from adys15 on June 4th, 2012, 01:26 PM
Quote from Faisca on June 4th, 2012, 07:50 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 3rd, 2012, 12:08 AM
Hy guys take a look at the cell driver drawing and answer if you want/can
I did not catch your question well, but the two diodes are correct: the "4005" is a short-circuit the surge absorbing positive about the transistor, and the "5A1KU" blocks the negative pulse. With this the primary only receives the square wave pulse, the transistor protects and guarantees the primary unipolar pulse.
Thanks for reply!I mean when a square wave(lets say 2 volts) is present at tip120 base,the tip 120 is using those 12v aplied at the pin6(finish of the primary coil).Let's say the pulse is 50% duty cycle 3secounds and 3 secounds MARK,whel pulse is on the base receives 5volts square wave and the tip 120 trigers the C,Emiter,and closes the circuit with the GND.After 3 secounds the pulses stops ,the tip 120 closes the circuit and the back EMF is traveling backwards(see green arrow)when this happens the 4005 blocks the EMF.My question was why the 1kv5a is not uset instead of 4005and  is used to drive 12v to Colector/Em. of tip120
Because it is precisely this point that needs to be watched.
At the same time (in reality series) with primary, only this diode (4004) addresses, and to protect the transistor that has to be increased tension and speed.
would be of great value in a simulator to test you, to your learning.
3 ..., seconds on? but during that time is being switched to a maybe frequency = 5kHz.(you get this part right?)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 4th, 2012, 02:41 PM
Quote from Faisca on June 4th, 2012, 02:00 PM
Quote from adys15 on June 4th, 2012, 01:26 PM
Quote from Faisca on June 4th, 2012, 07:50 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 3rd, 2012, 12:08 AM
Hy guys take a look at the cell driver drawing and answer if you want/can
I did not catch your question well, but the two diodes are correct: the "4005" is a short-circuit the surge absorbing positive about the transistor, and the "5A1KU" blocks the negative pulse. With this the primary only receives the square wave pulse, the transistor protects and guarantees the primary unipolar pulse.
Thanks for reply!I mean when a square wave(lets say 2 volts) is present at tip120 base,the tip 120 is using those 12v aplied at the pin6(finish of the primary coil).Let's say the pulse is 50% duty cycle 3secounds and 3 secounds MARK,whel pulse is on the base receives 5volts square wave and the tip 120 trigers the C,Emiter,and closes the circuit with the GND.After 3 secounds the pulses stops ,the tip 120 closes the circuit and the back EMF is traveling backwards(see green arrow)when this happens the 4005 blocks the EMF.My question was why the 1kv5a is not uset instead of 4005and  is used to drive 12v to Colector/Em. of tip120
Because it is precisely this point that needs to be watched.
At the same time (in reality series) with primary, only this diode (4004) addresses, and to protect the transistor that has to be increased tension and speed.
would be of great value in a simulator to test you, to your learning.
3 ..., seconds on? but during that time is being switched to a maybe frequency = 5kHz.(you get this part right?)
I said ''3 secounds'' just as an example,things happens verry fast i know,and yes with a given frequency5khz like you say.Man the back EMF does not travel the reverse way of the 12v voltage?like in my drawing?if so the 1kv5a is not protecting the transistor because his arow is downwords...
And another Q:I bouth today the rest of the caps for the VIC card ,i see that there are a few tantalum(the yelow alongated shape)those are polarised or not?and the redish ones are polyester?the rest are ceramic....
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 11:57 AM
Please take a look at this comment derived from Peter Linderman's analysis:

Transcription from MDG, for nov07 update:

Here a lotof people have not understood really what stan was doing. So it's a method for
obtaining the release of a fuel gas including hydrogen and oxygen from water, during
which the water is processed as a dielectric media in an electrical resonant circuit
Then he shows the cell, here, which basically consits of concentric cylinders and this
... ; but here is the circuit, and basically there is not much to at what he is saying he is
putting 50% duty cycles pulses into this transformer and creating pulses that are going
to the fuel cell wich is designed to be a capacitor.

Now, the obvious problem with this situation is this, he is using the word resonant
here, like salt and pepper all the way through.

This is not a resonant circuit, this was part of the diversion about how to keep
people, how he protected the idea without actually leading people to understand what was going on, and the proof that this is not a resonant circuit lyes in the bloking diode ! huuuuuuu gushh

so what you can see here is what he is really doing is this, this system works without electrolyte (MDG: Air being the dielectric layer to breakdown) ; so the purpose of it is, he wants his water to have a fearly high resistance in it, and so, here is what he is gona do, he got this chokes, this chokes are very important because when he puts this inductive spikes on, here, ... with the diode, what he is doing is, he is charging this capacitor, and the resonant chokes are specifically to damp the voltage spikes that could prematurally set this thing off.

So what he is doing, he is making sure that he can charge this capacitor with kind
of soft pulses and pulse the thing up, so he can get this capacitor to charge to the
maximum degree before the dielectric material, in this case water, creates a
catastrophic dielectric failure in the capacitor
At which point, all the charge in the capacitor, all the voltage in the capacitor is
converted to amps as a shorts out internally, and orderly destroys the water it
moves through and creates massive quantities of hydrogen and oxygen.
(minute 3.00 of this video)
and as soon as it's out of the way, water rushes its back in, the dielectric constant is
again re-established, and this is what's happening, while this is happening, he waits,
and starts charging again.
(showing of patent page drawing progressive water molecule stretching under pulses
train)
again this types of drawing were made to confuse people, you know the idea of
drawing this things are that these were increasingly large resonant pulses and
everything, this is all a bunch of ... , all he is doing is just like any other voltage
multiplier that's used in pulsing, all you are looking up is a step ramp charger on a
capacitor until it reaches it's catastrophic failure, that is the method of the Stan
Meyer's system, and it does produce massive amounts of gas for a very small amount
of electricity.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on June 6th, 2012, 12:10 PM
Quote from mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 11:57 AM
Please take a look at this comment derived from Peter Linderman's analysis:

Transcription from MDG, for nov07 update:

Here a lotof people have not understood really what stan was doing. So it's a method for
obtaining the release of a fuel gas including hydrogen and oxygen from water, during
which the water is processed as a dielectric media in an electrical resonant circuit
Then he shows the cell, here, which basically consits of concentric cylinders and this
... ; but here is the circuit, and basically there is not much to at what he is saying he is
putting 50% duty cycles pulses into this transformer and creating pulses that are going
to the fuel cell wich is designed to be a capacitor.

Now, the obvious problem with this situation is this, he is using the word resonant
here, like salt and pepper all the way through.

This is not a resonant circuit, this was part of the diversion about how to keep
people, how he protected the idea without actually leading people to understand what was going on, and the proof that this is not a resonant circuit lyes in the bloking diode ! huuuuuuu gushh

so what you can see here is what he is really doing is this, this system works without electrolyte (MDG: Air being the dielectric layer to breakdown) ; so the purpose of it is, he wants his water to have a fearly high resistance in it, and so, here is what he is gona do, he got this chokes, this chokes are very important because when he puts this inductive spikes on, here, ... with the diode, what he is doing is, he is charging this capacitor, and the resonant chokes are specifically to damp the voltage spikes that could prematurally set this thing off.

So what he is doing, he is making sure that he can charge this capacitor with kind
of soft pulses and pulse the thing up, so he can get this capacitor to charge to the
maximum degree before the dielectric material, in this case water, creates a
catastrophic dielectric failure in the capacitor
At which point, all the charge in the capacitor, all the voltage in the capacitor is
converted to amps as a shorts out internally, and orderly destroys the water it
moves through and creates massive quantities of hydrogen and oxygen.
(minute 3.00 of this video)
and as soon as it's out of the way, water rushes its back in, the dielectric constant is
again re-established, and this is what's happening, while this is happening, he waits,
and starts charging again.
(showing of patent page drawing progressive water molecule stretching under pulses
train)
again this types of drawing were made to confuse people, you know the idea of
drawing this things are that these were increasingly large resonant pulses and
everything, this is all a bunch of ... , all he is doing is just like any other voltage
multiplier that's used in pulsing, all you are looking up is a step ramp charger on a
capacitor until it reaches it's catastrophic failure, that is the method of the Stan
Meyer's system, and it does produce massive amounts of gas for a very small amount
of electricity.
Never seen this before, very interesting, do you have the link to where you got this from?:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Yes I have a link:

http://hodinfo.com/forum/topics/stanley-meyer-resonant#axzz1wxqbp3Rz

go to the above link and download the pdf attachment named "stan meyers.pdf"

in that pdf document click on the peter linderman link.  type 21 in the adobe page number and it should take you there.
Quote from mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Yes I have a link:

http://hodinfo.com/forum/topics/stanley-meyer-resonant#axzz1wxqbp3Rz

go to the above link and download the pdf attachment named "stan meyers.pdf"

in that pdf document click on the peter linderman link.  type 21 in the adobe page number and it should take you there.
in case if you dont find the pdf in that forum i have attached it here:
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on June 6th, 2012, 01:06 PM
Quote from mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Yes I have a link:

http://hodinfo.com/forum/topics/stanley-meyer-resonant#axzz1wxqbp3Rz

go to the above link and download the pdf attachment named "stan meyers.pdf"

in that pdf document click on the peter linderman link.  type 21 in the adobe page number and it should take you there.
Quote from mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Yes I have a link:

http://hodinfo.com/forum/topics/stanley-meyer-resonant#axzz1wxqbp3Rz

go to the above link and download the pdf attachment named "stan meyers.pdf"

in that pdf document click on the peter linderman link.  type 21 in the adobe page number and it should take you there.
in case if you dont find the pdf in that forum i have attached it here:
Thanks, Jeff.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on June 6th, 2012, 01:33 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on June 6th, 2012, 12:10 PM
Quote from mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 11:57 AM
Please take a look at this comment derived from Peter Linderman's analysis:

Transcription from MDG, for nov07 update:

Here a lotof people have not understood really what stan was doing. So it's a method for
obtaining the release of a fuel gas including hydrogen and oxygen from water, during
which the water is processed as a dielectric media in an electrical resonant circuit
Then he shows the cell, here, which basically consits of concentric cylinders and this
... ; but here is the circuit, and basically there is not much to at what he is saying he is
putting 50% duty cycles pulses into this transformer and creating pulses that are going
to the fuel cell wich is designed to be a capacitor.

Now, the obvious problem with this situation is this, he is using the word resonant
here, like salt and pepper all the way through.

This is not a resonant circuit, this was part of the diversion about how to keep
people, how he protected the idea without actually leading people to understand what was going on, and the proof that this is not a resonant circuit lyes in the bloking diode ! huuuuuuu gushh

so what you can see here is what he is really doing is this, this system works without electrolyte (MDG: Air being the dielectric layer to breakdown) ; so the purpose of it is, he wants his water to have a fearly high resistance in it, and so, here is what he is gona do, he got this chokes, this chokes are very important because when he puts this inductive spikes on, here, ... with the diode, what he is doing is, he is charging this capacitor, and the resonant chokes are specifically to damp the voltage spikes that could prematurally set this thing off.

So what he is doing, he is making sure that he can charge this capacitor with kind
of soft pulses and pulse the thing up, so he can get this capacitor to charge to the
maximum degree before the dielectric material, in this case water, creates a
catastrophic dielectric failure in the capacitor
At which point, all the charge in the capacitor, all the voltage in the capacitor is
converted to amps as a shorts out internally, and orderly destroys the water it
moves through and creates massive quantities of hydrogen and oxygen.
(minute 3.00 of this video)
and as soon as it's out of the way, water rushes its back in, the dielectric constant is
again re-established, and this is what's happening, while this is happening, he waits,
and starts charging again.
(showing of patent page drawing progressive water molecule stretching under pulses
train)
again this types of drawing were made to confuse people, you know the idea of
drawing this things are that these were increasingly large resonant pulses and
everything, this is all a bunch of ... , all he is doing is just like any other voltage
multiplier that's used in pulsing, all you are looking up is a step ramp charger on a
capacitor until it reaches it's catastrophic failure, that is the method of the Stan
Meyer's system, and it does produce massive amounts of gas for a very small amount
of electricity.
Never seen this before, very interesting, do you have the link to where you got this from?:D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HjIyxEvAYM

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 02:02 PM
Quote from mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Yes I have a link:

http://hodinfo.com/forum/topics/stanley-meyer-resonant#axzz1wxqbp3Rz

go to the above link and download the pdf attachment named "stan meyers.pdf"

in that pdf document click on the peter linderman link.  type 21 in the adobe page number and it should take you there.
Quote from mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Yes I have a link:

http://hodinfo.com/forum/topics/stanley-meyer-resonant#axzz1wxqbp3Rz

go to the above link and download the pdf attachment named "stan meyers.pdf"

in that pdf document click on the peter linderman link.  type 21 in the adobe page number and it should take you there.
in case if you dont find the pdf in that forum i have attached it here:
with or without resonance, anyway speak of a capacitor cell with water.
I'm already on the bench with my prototype and I'm stopped just this detail: the concentric tubes (resonant cavity, I use only one), with any type of water represent a low resistance, far from a capacitor. So we need to create a dielectric, or perhaps as Ravi passivating conditioning tubes to achieve high voltage at the load.
Anyone know how to, get this passivation of stainless steel?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on June 6th, 2012, 02:26 PM
Quote from Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 02:02 PM
Quote from mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Yes I have a link:

http://hodinfo.com/forum/topics/stanley-meyer-resonant#axzz1wxqbp3Rz

go to the above link and download the pdf attachment named "stan meyers.pdf"

in that pdf document click on the peter linderman link.  type 21 in the adobe page number and it should take you there.
Quote from mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Yes I have a link:

http://hodinfo.com/forum/topics/stanley-meyer-resonant#axzz1wxqbp3Rz

go to the above link and download the pdf attachment named "stan meyers.pdf"

in that pdf document click on the peter linderman link.  type 21 in the adobe page number and it should take you there.
in case if you dont find the pdf in that forum i have attached it here:
with or without resonance, anyway speak of a capacitor cell with water.
I'm already on the bench with my prototype and I'm stopped just this detail: the concentric tubes (resonant cavity, I use only one), with any type of water represent a low resistance, far from a capacitor. So we need to create a dielectric, or perhaps as Ravi passivating conditioning tubes to achieve high voltage at the load.
Anyone know how to, get this passivation of stainless steel?
1/2 AMP NO MORE, what ever voltage, my tubes started passivization @ 12 volts DC, white film started to form, as soon as I raised the amps it started to flake off. The more the white filmed formed, I had an increase in HHO production. I think high voltage with the vic coil and the circuits we already have will work, once we have the water sparkplug to test with we will know for sure. So, we should continue the work the scientific way, prove or disprove a theory, this is the only way we will succeed, thanks, Jeff.:cool::D:P
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 02:37 PM
an excerpt from ravi's replication document. page 14

If you order large pipes and cut them, you need to get the tubes annealed once they
are cut and finished to lengths before being assembled. It’s done in a separate inert
atmosphere furnace of Nitrogen or Argon. You have people who do heat treatment for
metals they'll give you the procedure if you tell them the grade you are using.
Tell them that you need a bright anneal in nitrogen or argon atmosphere. Annealing is
done after every cold work operation and at the finishing stage to reset the lattice
structure. As we are cutting the pipes and slightly finishing the surfaces with sand paper
to remove any imbedded impurities during tube drawing, it’s all cold working. So you
need to relieve these induces stresses in the lattice through annealing.
Ravi advises - Use an abrasive cutter or a saw and then anneal them as you induce a
lot of stresses in the lattice during cutting due to the hot and cold areas. If you use laser
then you could cut the annealed tubes as you are not inducing any mechanical
stresses during the cutting but you could check along the length with a compass and
see if there’s any difference. Take a compass close to the tubes and you can usually
see it deflecting before annealing but once the annealing is done the deflection is a
fraction of what you have seen before on the same tubes or none at all, this is what you
want.
Assembly options- It appears that Dave Lawton used insulated copper wire to connect
to his tubes. Ravi used spot wielded stainless steal wire on his tubes. Originally Ravi had
his wires too long which had a negative impact on his efficiency. He then had to
shorten them.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 02:37 PM
an excerpt from ravi's replication document. page 14

If you order large pipes and cut them, you need to get the tubes annealed once they
are cut and finished to lengths before being assembled. It’s done in a separate inert
atmosphere furnace of Nitrogen or Argon. You have people who do heat treatment for
metals they'll give you the procedure if you tell them the grade you are using.
Tell them that you need a bright anneal in nitrogen or argon atmosphere. Annealing is
done after every cold work operation and at the finishing stage to reset the lattice
structure. As we are cutting the pipes and slightly finishing the surfaces with sand paper
to remove any imbedded impurities during tube drawing, it’s all cold working. So you
need to relieve these induces stresses in the lattice through annealing.
Ravi advises - Use an abrasive cutter or a saw and then anneal them as you induce a
lot of stresses in the lattice during cutting due to the hot and cold areas. If you use laser
then you could cut the annealed tubes as you are not inducing any mechanical
stresses during the cutting but you could check along the length with a compass and
see if there’s any difference. Take a compass close to the tubes and you can usually
see it deflecting before annealing but once the annealing is done the deflection is a
fraction of what you have seen before on the same tubes or none at all, this is what you
want.
Assembly options- It appears that Dave Lawton used insulated copper wire to connect
to his tubes. Ravi used spot wielded stainless steal wire on his tubes. Originally Ravi had
his wires too long which had a negative impact on his efficiency. He then had to
shorten them.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 6th, 2012, 03:35 PM
forget the darn pipes...they are not important,Pulharich even used steal coated with nichel...soo....whatever....which of you built the gated pulse circuit and works?I finished  it today,is just like stans,bit by bit,checked 1000 times the conections with multimeter and does not work....if I disconect pin8 of 74122 from pin5 of 7408 the 7408 works alone....50% pulses...and canot adjust,if i conect pin 8 to 5 it kills it///waiting for your trobleshooter:))
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 03:40 PM

with or without resonance, anyway speak of a capacitor cell with water.
I'm already on the bench with my prototype and I'm stopped just this detail: the concentric tubes (resonant cavity, I use only one), with any type of water represent a low resistance, far from a capacitor. So we need to create a dielectric, or perhaps as Ravi passivating conditioning tubes to achieve high voltage at the load.
Anyone know how to, get this passivation of stainless steel?[/quote]1/2 AMP NO MORE, what ever voltage, my tubes started passivization @ 12 volts DC, white film started to form, as soon as I raised the amps it started to flake off. The more the white filmed formed, I had an increase in HHO production. I think high voltage with the vic coil and the circuits we already have will work, once we have the water sparkplug to test with we will know for sure. So, we should continue the work the scientific way, prove or disprove a theory, this is the only way we will succeed, thanks, Jeff.:cool::D:P[/quote]I know at 500mA maximum. but with electrolyte, or plain water? 12V with continuous or pulsed, with inductors?
How long is on, and the resting time getting air?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on June 6th, 2012, 04:02 PM
Quote from mashficool on June 6th, 2012, 02:37 PM
an excerpt from ravi's replication document. page 14

If you order large pipes and cut them, you need to get the tubes annealed once they
are cut and finished to lengths before being assembled. It’s done in a separate inert
atmosphere furnace of Nitrogen or Argon. You have people who do heat treatment for
metals they'll give you the procedure if you tell them the grade you are using.
Tell them that you need a bright anneal in nitrogen or argon atmosphere. Annealing is
done after every cold work operation and at the finishing stage to reset the lattice
structure. As we are cutting the pipes and slightly finishing the surfaces with sand paper
to remove any imbedded impurities during tube drawing, it’s all cold working. So you
need to relieve these induces stresses in the lattice through annealing.
Ravi advises - Use an abrasive cutter or a saw and then anneal them as you induce a
lot of stresses in the lattice during cutting due to the hot and cold areas. If you use laser
then you could cut the annealed tubes as you are not inducing any mechanical
stresses during the cutting but you could check along the length with a compass and
see if there’s any difference. Take a compass close to the tubes and you can usually
see it deflecting before annealing but once the annealing is done the deflection is a
fraction of what you have seen before on the same tubes or none at all, this is what you
want.
Assembly options- It appears that Dave Lawton used insulated copper wire to connect
to his tubes. Ravi used spot wielded stainless steal wire on his tubes. Originally Ravi had
his wires too long which had a negative impact on his efficiency. He then had to
shorten them.
I would not go to all that expense and trouble to do all of that unless you have lots of money and just want to, because, for one thing, it's already been done, by Lawton and Ravi, second is, that the end result of Stan's work was the water sparkplug, not the fuel cell, the fuel cell was just a stepping stone to that end, third is the fact, that it's dangerous to store hydrogen, that's what's being done with the water fuel cell and the whole reason for the water sparkplug. I mean to say, I don't want to step on any ones toes here but I think the best thing to do here is stick to the plan as best we can, thanks, Jeff.:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 04:03 PM
Quote from adys15 on June 6th, 2012, 03:35 PM
forget the darn pipes...they are not important,Pulharich even used steal coated with nichel...soo....whatever....which of you built the gated pulse circuit and works?I finished  it today,is just like stans,bit by bit,checked 1000 times the conections with multimeter and does not work....if I disconect pin8 of 74122 from pin5 of 7408 the 7408 works alone....50% pulses...and canot adjust,if i conect pin 8 to 5 it kills it///waiting for your trobleshooter:))
charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
Puharich, used low voltage. In his report appears high voltage, while the water does not complete the circuit.
On the other hand if we have an oxide of a tube as a dielectric, it makes perfect sense.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on June 6th, 2012, 04:16 PM
Quote from Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 03:40 PM
with or without resonance, anyway speak of a capacitor cell with water.
I'm already on the bench with my prototype and I'm stopped just this detail: the concentric tubes (resonant cavity, I use only one), with any type of water represent a low resistance, far from a capacitor. So we need to create a dielectric, or perhaps as Ravi passivating conditioning tubes to achieve high voltage at the load.
Anyone know how to, get this passivation of stainless steel?
1/2 AMP NO MORE, what ever voltage, my tubes started passivization @ 12 volts DC, white film started to form, as soon as I raised the amps it started to flake off. The more the white filmed formed, I had an increase in HHO production. I think high voltage with the vic coil and the circuits we already have will work, once we have the water sparkplug to test with we will know for sure. So, we should continue the work the scientific way, prove or disprove a theory, this is the only way we will succeed, thanks, Jeff.:cool::D:P[/quote]I know at 500mA maximum. but with electrolyte, or plain water? 12V with continuous or pulsed, with inductors?
How long is on, and the resting time getting air?[/quote]Try 1 min. on 2 min's off, do this about 10 times and you will see a white film starting to form, then 2 min on 3 min off 10 times, then 10 min on 10 min off, then 30 min on and so on. That's about all Ravi did. Ravi just did what he thought would work by experimentation, he really had nothing set in stone to go by. Resting time in water not air and plan water , nothing added, 12 volts pulsed with inductor's, this is what I did and does work for conditioning of the tubes, the only thing I haven't done is try higher voltages.:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 7th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 04:03 PM
Quote from adys15 on June 6th, 2012, 03:35 PM
forget the darn pipes...they are not important,Pulharich even used steal coated with nichel...soo....whatever....which of you built the gated pulse circuit and works?I finished  it today,is just like stans,bit by bit,checked 1000 times the conections with multimeter and does not work....if I disconect pin8 of 74122 from pin5 of 7408 the 7408 works alone....50% pulses...and canot adjust,if i conect pin 8 to 5 it kills it///waiting for your trobleshooter:))
charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
Puharich, used low voltage. In his report appears high voltage, while the water does not complete the circuit.
On the other hand if we have an oxide of a tube as a dielectric, it makes perfect sense.
I don't exactly understand what you are asking...i do not started the vic yet because i dont know all the conections for sure and i don't get the gating working....is b***it... 12 hours work for nothing
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 7th, 2012, 08:13 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 7th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 04:03 PM
Quote from adys15 on June 6th, 2012, 03:35 PM
forget the darn pipes...they are not important,Pulharich even used steal coated with nichel...soo....whatever....which of you built the gated pulse circuit and works?I finished  it today,is just like stans,bit by bit,checked 1000 times the conections with multimeter and does not work....if I disconect pin8 of 74122 from pin5 of 7408 the 7408 works alone....50% pulses...and canot adjust,if i conect pin 8 to 5 it kills it///waiting for your trobleshooter:))
charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
Puharich, used low voltage. In his report appears high voltage, while the water does not complete the circuit.
On the other hand if we have an oxide of a tube as a dielectric, it makes perfect sense.
I don't exactly understand what you are asking...i do not started the vic yet because i dont know all the conections for sure and i don't get the gating working....is b***it... 12 hours work for nothing
of which circuit we are talking about.
We're not all doing the VIC with PLL system?
Show me the diagram and where this defect.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 7th, 2012, 08:18 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 7th, 2012, 08:13 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 7th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 04:03 PM
Quote from adys15 on June 6th, 2012, 03:35 PM
forget the darn pipes...they are not important,Pulharich even used steal coated with nichel...soo....whatever....which of you built the gated pulse circuit and works?I finished  it today,is just like stans,bit by bit,checked 1000 times the conections with multimeter and does not work....if I disconect pin8 of 74122 from pin5 of 7408 the 7408 works alone....50% pulses...and canot adjust,if i conect pin 8 to 5 it kills it///waiting for your trobleshooter:))
charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
Puharich, used low voltage. In his report appears high voltage, while the water does not complete the circuit.
On the other hand if we have an oxide of a tube as a dielectric, it makes perfect sense.
I don't exactly understand what you are asking...i do not started the vic yet because i dont know all the conections for sure and i don't get the gating working....is b***it... 12 hours work for nothing
of which circuit we are talking about.
We're not all doing the VIC with PLL system?
Show me the diagram and where this defect.
here are the skematics vic...dont know how to hook it up ,and the gate does not work,they are exact like stans,checked 1000times
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 7th, 2012, 09:59 AM


charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
Puharich, used low voltage. In his report appears high voltage, while the water does not complete the circuit.
On the other hand if we have an oxide of a tube as a dielectric, it makes perfect sense.[/quote]I don't exactly understand what you are asking...i do not started the vic yet because i dont know all the conections for sure and i don't get the gating working....is b***it... 12 hours work for nothing[/quote]of which circuit we are talking about.
We're not all doing the VIC with PLL system?
Show me the diagram and where this defect.[/quote]here are the skematics vic...dont know how to hook it up ,and the gate does not work,they are exact like stans,checked 1000times[/quote]horrible, this is not a schematic, with symbols. Is a diagram of the components in assembly with their caps. It is much easier and practical to use the schematic.
From what I could understand, You refer to Figure 6 (PCT/US90/06407) and 74122 is "A26" this is who shapes the pulses coming from "M1" or "B". The 7408 should not work alone, it processes that went by "K" along with the output of "A26".
You're very confused. This part of the device, has no relevance now. All this is to control the "gate". And it can be replaced by a simple 555, because what is important is the VIC and the PLL system.
Myself, I will only deal with the "control gate" after succeeding with the operation of the VIC (which I think is common sense).
Anyway, if the schematic is easier to perceive and understand the logic errors.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Mechanic on June 7th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 03:40 PM
with or without resonance, anyway speak of a capacitor cell with water.
I'm already on the bench with my prototype and I'm stopped just this detail: the concentric tubes (resonant cavity, I use only one), with any type of water represent a low resistance, far from a capacitor. So we need to create a dielectric, or perhaps as Ravi passivating conditioning tubes to achieve high voltage at the load.
Anyone know how to, get this passivation of stainless steel?
1/2 AMP NO MORE, what ever voltage, my tubes started passivization @ 12 volts DC, white film started to form, as soon as I raised the amps it started to flake off. The more the white filmed formed, I had an increase in HHO production. I think high voltage with the vic coil and the circuits we already have will work, once we have the water sparkplug to test with we will know for sure. So, we should continue the work the scientific way, prove or disprove a theory, this is the only way we will succeed, thanks, Jeff.:cool::D:P[/quote]I know at 500mA maximum. but with electrolyte, or plain water? 12V with continuous or pulsed, with inductors?
How long is on, and the resting time getting air?[/quote]Hi,

Just a thought, what will happen if the Cell is coted with something stopping it from shorting in the water and the voltage then rises until the coting can't contain the voltage anymore and then it arcs through to the water and then mabe splits the water....? a video from Stan that i've seen shows shiny pipes and no brow muck coted pipes....?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Mechanic on June 7th, 2012, 12:31 PM
Quote from Mechanic on June 7th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 03:40 PM
with or without resonance, anyway speak of a capacitor cell with water.
I'm already on the bench with my prototype and I'm stopped just this detail: the concentric tubes (resonant cavity, I use only one), with any type of water represent a low resistance, far from a capacitor. So we need to create a dielectric, or perhaps as Ravi passivating conditioning tubes to achieve high voltage at the load.
Anyone know how to, get this passivation of stainless steel?
1/2 AMP NO MORE, what ever voltage, my tubes started passivization @ 12 volts DC, white film started to form, as soon as I raised the amps it started to flake off. The more the white filmed formed, I had an increase in HHO production. I think high voltage with the vic coil and the circuits we already have will work, once we have the water sparkplug to test with we will know for sure. So, we should continue the work the scientific way, prove or disprove a theory, this is the only way we will succeed, thanks, Jeff.:cool::D:P
I know at 500mA maximum. but with electrolyte, or plain water? 12V with continuous or pulsed, with inductors?
How long is on, and the resting time getting air?[/quote]Hi,

Just a thought, what will happen if the Cell is coted with something stopping it from shorting in the water and the voltage then rises until the coting can't contain the voltage anymore and then it arcs through to the water and then mabe splits the water....? a video from Stan that i've seen shows shiny pipes and no brow muck coted pipes....?[/quote]NB: Also looked at thewaterenergy1's video's on You Tube and the tube set too was shiny...
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 7th, 2012, 12:32 PM
Quote from Faisca on June 7th, 2012, 09:59 AM
charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
charge that you are using in your transformer VIC.?
As is, where the frequency of the "gate"?
What is the frequency of the scanner?
In the manual position, can find the resonance point?
I will now repeat my tests, using instead of the cell, perhaps a 470K resistor and a 10nF capacitor as load VIC. Alternatively the cell without water.
Puharich, used low voltage. In his report appears high voltage, while the water does not complete the circuit.
On the other hand if we have an oxide of a tube as a dielectric, it makes perfect sense.
I don't exactly understand what you are asking...i do not started the vic yet because i dont know all the conections for sure and i don't get the gating working....is b***it... 12 hours work for nothing[/quote]of which circuit we are talking about.
We're not all doing the VIC with PLL system?
Show me the diagram and where this defect.[/quote]here are the skematics vic...dont know how to hook it up ,and the gate does not work,they are exact like stans,checked 1000times[/quote]horrible, this is not a schematic, with symbols. Is a diagram of the components in assembly with their caps. It is much easier and practical to use the schematic.
From what I could understand, You refer to Figure 6 (PCT/US90/06407) and 74122 is "A26" this is who shapes the pulses coming from "M1" or "B". The 7408 should not work alone, it processes that went by "K" along with the output of "A26".
You're very confused. This part of the device, has no relevance now. All this is to control the "gate". And it can be replaced by a simple 555, because what is important is the VIC and the PLL system.
Myself, I will only deal with the "control gate" after succeeding with the operation of the VIC (which I think is common sense).
Anyway, if the schematic is easier to perceive and understand the logic errors.[/quote]Those skematics,yes are not diagrams...is a strait built,and i started the circuit without 7432 and the two 7404 because they are not uset either by Stan,the 7408,works alone and yes is showing on a scope 50% duty cycles ,but when I connect pin 8 from 74122 to pin 5 and put the scope on pin8 of the 7408 it dies...so....any ideas what might by wrong,the schematic is identical like the one in the patent except the 3 cips that they are not used....about the vic schematic pins do you know how to conect pin 1,2 top 1bottom...waiting for reply
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 8th, 2012, 09:30 AM
[/quote]horrible, this is not a schematic, with symbols. Is a diagram of the components in assembly with their caps. It is much easier and practical to use the schematic.
From what I could understand, You refer to Figure 6 (PCT/US90/06407) and 74122 is "A26" this is who shapes the pulses coming from "M1" or "B". The 7408 should not work alone, it processes that went by "K" along with the output of "A26".
You're very confused. This part of the device, has no relevance now. All this is to control the "gate". And it can be replaced by a simple 555, because what is important is the VIC and the PLL system.
Myself, I will only deal with the "control gate" after succeeding with the operation of the VIC (which I think is common sense).
Anyway, if the schematic is easier to perceive and understand the logic errors.[/quote]Those skematics,yes are not diagrams...is a strait built,and i started the circuit without 7432 and the two 7404 because they are not uset either by Stan,the 7408,works alone and yes is showing on a scope 50% duty cycles ,but when I connect pin 8 from 74122 to pin 5 and put the scope on pin8 of the 7408 it dies...so....any ideas what might by wrong,the schematic is identical like the one in the patent except the 3 cips that they are not used....about the vic schematic pins do you know how to conect pin 1,2 top 1bottom...waiting for reply[/quote]for me to help you, so quickly and without wasting much time, show me the schematic diagram of this part that you mounted.
Still, warning: this is not the main line in this topic.
Quote from Mechanic on June 7th, 2012, 12:31 PM
Quote from Mechanic on June 7th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 03:40 PM
with or without resonance, anyway speak of a capacitor cell with water.
I'm already on the bench with my prototype and I'm stopped just this detail: the concentric tubes (resonant cavity, I use only one), with any type of water represent a low resistance, far from a capacitor. So we need to create a dielectric, or perhaps as Ravi passivating conditioning tubes to achieve high voltage at the load.
Anyone know how to, get this passivation of stainless steel?
1/2 AMP NO MORE, what ever voltage, my tubes started passivization @ 12 volts DC, white film started to form, as soon as I raised the amps it started to flake off. The more the white filmed formed, I had an increase in HHO production. I think high voltage with the vic coil and the circuits we already have will work, once we have the water sparkplug to test with we will know for sure. So, we should continue the work the scientific way, prove or disprove a theory, this is the only way we will succeed, thanks, Jeff.:cool::D:P
I know at 500mA maximum. but with electrolyte, or plain water? 12V with continuous or pulsed, with inductors?
How long is on, and the resting time getting air?
Hi,

Just a thought, what will happen if the Cell is coted with something stopping it from shorting in the water and the voltage then rises until the coting can't contain the voltage anymore and then it arcs through to the water and then mabe splits the water....? a video from Stan that i've seen shows shiny pipes and no brow muck coted pipes....?[/quote]NB: Also looked at thewaterenergy1's video's on You Tube and the tube set too was shiny...[/quote]Mechanic is just that, but what's the secret? This guy seems to be well in advance.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on June 8th, 2012, 10:41 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 8th, 2012, 09:30 AM
horrible, this is not a schematic, with symbols. Is a diagram of the components in assembly with their caps. It is much easier and practical to use the schematic.
From what I could understand, You refer to Figure 6 (PCT/US90/06407) and 74122 is "A26" this is who shapes the pulses coming from "M1" or "B". The 7408 should not work alone, it processes that went by "K" along with the output of "A26".
You're very confused. This part of the device, has no relevance now. All this is to control the "gate". And it can be replaced by a simple 555, because what is important is the VIC and the PLL system.
Myself, I will only deal with the "control gate" after succeeding with the operation of the VIC (which I think is common sense).
Anyway, if the schematic is easier to perceive and understand the logic errors.[/quote]Well that's the million dollar question:D,  I think the water sparkplug will help answer:D.

Those skematics,yes are not diagrams...is a strait built,and i started the circuit without 7432 and the two 7404 because they are not uset either by Stan,the 7408,works alone and yes is showing on a scope 50% duty cycles ,but when I connect pin 8 from 74122 to pin 5 and put the scope on pin8 of the 7408 it dies...so....any ideas what might by wrong,the schematic is identical like the one in the patent except the 3 cips that they are not used....about the vic schematic pins do you know how to conect pin 1,2 top 1bottom...waiting for reply[/quote]for me to help you, so quickly and without wasting much time, show me the schematic diagram of this part that you mounted.
Still, warning: this is not the main line in this topic.
Quote from Mechanic on June 7th, 2012, 12:31 PM
Quote from Mechanic on June 7th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 03:40 PM
with or without resonance, anyway speak of a capacitor cell with water.
I'm already on the bench with my prototype and I'm stopped just this detail: the concentric tubes (resonant cavity, I use only one), with any type of water represent a low resistance, far from a capacitor. So we need to create a dielectric, or perhaps as Ravi passivating conditioning tubes to achieve high voltage at the load.
Anyone know how to, get this passivation of stainless steel?
1/2 AMP NO MORE, what ever voltage, my tubes started passivization @ 12 volts DC, white film started to form, as soon as I raised the amps it started to flake off. The more the white filmed formed, I had an increase in HHO production. I think high voltage with the vic coil and the circuits we already have will work, once we have the water sparkplug to test with we will know for sure. So, we should continue the work the scientific way, prove or disprove a theory, this is the only way we will succeed, thanks, Jeff.:cool::D:P
I know at 500mA maximum. but with electrolyte, or plain water? 12V with continuous or pulsed, with inductors?
How long is on, and the resting time getting air?
Hi,

Just a thought, what will happen if the Cell is coted with something stopping it from shorting in the water and the voltage then rises until the coting can't contain the voltage anymore and then it arcs through to the water and then mabe splits the water....? a video from Stan that i've seen shows shiny pipes and no brow muck coted pipes....?[/quote]NB: Also looked at thewaterenergy1's video's on You Tube and the tube set too was shiny...[/quote]Mechanic is just that, but what's the secret? This guy seems to be well in advance.[/quote]
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 8th, 2012, 06:03 PM
Anyone know how to create a semiconductor film on stainless steel?
All that was missing to proceed.
Thank you.[/size]
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Mechanic on June 9th, 2012, 01:10 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on June 8th, 2012, 10:41 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 8th, 2012, 09:30 AM
horrible, this is not a schematic, with symbols. Is a diagram of the components in assembly with their caps. It is much easier and practical to use the schematic.
From what I could understand, You refer to Figure 6 (PCT/US90/06407) and 74122 is "A26" this is who shapes the pulses coming from "M1" or "B". The 7408 should not work alone, it processes that went by "K" along with the output of "A26".
You're very confused. This part of the device, has no relevance now. All this is to control the "gate". And it can be replaced by a simple 555, because what is important is the VIC and the PLL system.
Myself, I will only deal with the "control gate" after succeeding with the operation of the VIC (which I think is common sense).
Anyway, if the schematic is easier to perceive and understand the logic errors.
Well that's the million dollar question:D,  I think the water sparkplug will help answer:D.

Those skematics,yes are not diagrams...is a strait built,and i started the circuit without 7432 and the two 7404 because they are not uset either by Stan,the 7408,works alone and yes is showing on a scope 50% duty cycles ,but when I connect pin 8 from 74122 to pin 5 and put the scope on pin8 of the 7408 it dies...so....any ideas what might by wrong,the schematic is identical like the one in the patent except the 3 cips that they are not used....about the vic schematic pins do you know how to conect pin 1,2 top 1bottom...waiting for reply[/quote]for me to help you, so quickly and without wasting much time, show me the schematic diagram of this part that you mounted.
Still, warning: this is not the main line in this topic.
Quote from Mechanic on June 7th, 2012, 12:31 PM
Quote from Mechanic on June 7th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 6th, 2012, 03:40 PM
with or without resonance, anyway speak of a capacitor cell with water.
I'm already on the bench with my prototype and I'm stopped just this detail: the concentric tubes (resonant cavity, I use only one), with any type of water represent a low resistance, far from a capacitor. So we need to create a dielectric, or perhaps as Ravi passivating conditioning tubes to achieve high voltage at the load.
Anyone know how to, get this passivation of stainless steel?
1/2 AMP NO MORE, what ever voltage, my tubes started passivization @ 12 volts DC, white film started to form, as soon as I raised the amps it started to flake off. The more the white filmed formed, I had an increase in HHO production. I think high voltage with the vic coil and the circuits we already have will work, once we have the water sparkplug to test with we will know for sure. So, we should continue the work the scientific way, prove or disprove a theory, this is the only way we will succeed, thanks, Jeff.:cool::D:P
I know at 500mA maximum. but with electrolyte, or plain water? 12V with continuous or pulsed, with inductors?
How long is on, and the resting time getting air?
Hi,

Just a thought, what will happen if the Cell is coted with something stopping it from shorting in the water and the voltage then rises until the coting can't contain the voltage anymore and then it arcs through to the water and then mabe splits the water....? a video from Stan that i've seen shows shiny pipes and no brow muck coted pipes....?[/quote]NB: Also looked at thewaterenergy1's video's on You Tube and the tube set too was shiny...[/quote]Mechanic is just that, but what's the secret? This guy seems to be well in advance.[/quote]Well the only thing i can see here that is not yet acheived by any of us is the high votage from the coil, this sure must be it... (secret). I'm at last a bit bussy working (income) and as soon as i get a chance will start the coil in all my power. First trying to succeed in getting high voltage and then the freaquancy will probably follow from the circuit if i understand correctly... also found a guy that seems to know transformers and electronics wich might be able to assist....[/quote]
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 9th, 2012, 01:51 PM

Mechanic is just that, but what's the secret? This guy seems to be well in advance.[/quote]Well the only thing i can see here that is not yet acheived by any of us is the high votage from the coil, this sure must be it... (secret). I'm at last a bit bussy working (income) and as soon as i get a chance will start the coil in all my power. First trying to succeed in getting high voltage and then the freaquancy will probably follow from the circuit if i understand correctly... also found a guy that seems to know transformers and electronics wich might be able to assist....[/quote][/quote]hello Mechanic.
If so, then this transformer we re-produce (with 5 reels) is totally wrong, I tested it with the same cell without water and at various frequencies, without reaching the high voltage.
I keep on working on that line.
I no longer have enthusiasm in my normal work (for money), because this is more important to me and it makes more sense. For the first time I have in my hands, something that can change the world.
Success for us.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Mechanic on June 10th, 2012, 01:26 AM
Quote from Faisca on June 9th, 2012, 01:51 PM
Mechanic is just that, but what's the secret? This guy seems to be well in advance.
Well the only thing i can see here that is not yet acheived by any of us is the high votage from the coil, this sure must be it... (secret). I'm at last a bit bussy working (income) and as soon as i get a chance will start the coil in all my power. First trying to succeed in getting high voltage and then the freaquancy will probably follow from the circuit if i understand correctly... also found a guy that seems to know transformers and electronics wich might be able to assist....[/quote][/quote]hello Mechanic.
If so, then this transformer we re-produce (with 5 reels) is totally wrong, I tested it with the same cell without water and at various frequencies, without reaching the high voltage.
I keep on working on that line.
I no longer have enthusiasm in my normal work (for money), because this is more important to me and it makes more sense. For the first time I have in my hands, something that can change the world.
Success for us.[/quote]I'm glad your'e so dedicated, but you need money to supply for living needs and i veel the same way but have to have income to keep building and test even if i dont have an idea of what i'm doing i try to follow and replicate the talks on the subjects...(learning as i go) i think the wire to the coil will be verry thin to reach the right freaquancy that's after speaking to a armiture winder....

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 10th, 2012, 04:13 AM
Anybody has a working gated pulse circuit  based on Stan's patent?I compleated all the skematics and the gating is the only one that is missing,waiting for your help!!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Mechanic on June 10th, 2012, 10:30 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 10th, 2012, 04:13 AM
Anybody has a working gated pulse circuit  based on Stan's patent?I compleated all the skematics and the gating is the only one that is missing,waiting for your help!!!
adys15, did you build the 5 coil and what was the out put...?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 10th, 2012, 11:42 AM
Quote from Mechanic on June 10th, 2012, 10:30 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 10th, 2012, 04:13 AM
Anybody has a working gated pulse circuit  based on Stan's patent?I compleated all the skematics and the gating is the only one that is missing,waiting for your help!!!
adys15, did you build the 5 coil and what was the out put...?
No,till i am not finished with the electronics i am not buildind the vic transformers,besides that i am confused with the wire diameter(in mm) because 30awg is 0.2 mm and in the pics the wire looks(at the end where it has solder)like 0.35,and I done some measurements with irfanview measurement tool zoom and 0.35 shows...and the other thing the wire is verry hard to get in my country...and I have to built manualy the bobins from sheets of plastic cut them to size,stick them together,2 days work i think, and for the cores i will grind some flyback ferite cores 1mm thick and hope for the best....that is all  I have to work with..strugleing...but I have hope...and you guys help me verry much....thanks to you all!!!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Mechanic on June 11th, 2012, 09:11 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 10th, 2012, 11:42 AM
Quote from Mechanic on June 10th, 2012, 10:30 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 10th, 2012, 04:13 AM
Anybody has a working gated pulse circuit  based on Stan's patent?I compleated all the skematics and the gating is the only one that is missing,waiting for your help!!!
adys15, did you build the 5 coil and what was the out put...?
No,till i am not finished with the electronics i am not buildind the vic transformers,besides that i am confused with the wire diameter(in mm) because 30awg is 0.2 mm and in the pics the wire looks(at the end where it has solder)like 0.35,and I done some measurements with irfanview measurement tool zoom and 0.35 shows...and the other thing the wire is verry hard to get in my country...and I have to built manualy the bobins from sheets of plastic cut them to size,stick them together,2 days work i think, and for the cores i will grind some flyback ferite cores 1mm thick and hope for the best....that is all  I have to work with..strugleing...but I have hope...and you guys help me verry much....thanks to you all!!!!
Russ, can you mabe give the link to where that 5 coil specs is or anyone the can help... Thanx all
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Webmug on June 11th, 2012, 09:32 AM
Quote from Mechanic on June 11th, 2012, 09:11 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 10th, 2012, 11:42 AM
Quote from Mechanic on June 10th, 2012, 10:30 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 10th, 2012, 04:13 AM
Anybody has a working gated pulse circuit  based on Stan's patent?I compleated all the skematics and the gating is the only one that is missing,waiting for your help!!!
adys15, did you build the 5 coil and what was the out put...?
No,till i am not finished with the electronics i am not buildind the vic transformers,besides that i am confused with the wire diameter(in mm) because 30awg is 0.2 mm and in the pics the wire looks(at the end where it has solder)like 0.35,and I done some measurements with irfanview measurement tool zoom and 0.35 shows...and the other thing the wire is verry hard to get in my country...and I have to built manualy the bobins from sheets of plastic cut them to size,stick them together,2 days work i think, and for the cores i will grind some flyback ferite cores 1mm thick and hope for the best....that is all  I have to work with..strugleing...but I have hope...and you guys help me verry much....thanks to you all!!!!
Russ, can you mabe give the link to where that 5 coil specs is or anyone the can help... Thanx all
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=5507#pid5507

Br,
Webmug
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 11th, 2012, 10:05 AM
Quote from Webmug on June 11th, 2012, 09:32 AM
Quote from Mechanic on June 11th, 2012, 09:11 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 10th, 2012, 11:42 AM
Quote from Mechanic on June 10th, 2012, 10:30 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 10th, 2012, 04:13 AM
Anybody has a working gated pulse circuit  based on Stan's patent?I compleated all the skematics and the gating is the only one that is missing,waiting for your help!!!
adys15, did you build the 5 coil and what was the out put...?
No,till i am not finished with the electronics i am not buildind the vic transformers,besides that i am confused with the wire diameter(in mm) because 30awg is 0.2 mm and in the pics the wire looks(at the end where it has solder)like 0.35,and I done some measurements with irfanview measurement tool zoom and 0.35 shows...and the other thing the wire is verry hard to get in my country...and I have to built manualy the bobins from sheets of plastic cut them to size,stick them together,2 days work i think, and for the cores i will grind some flyback ferite cores 1mm thick and hope for the best....that is all  I have to work with..strugleing...but I have hope...and you guys help me verry much....thanks to you all!!!!
Russ, can you mabe give the link to where that 5 coil specs is or anyone the can help... Thanx all
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=5507#pid5507

Br,
Webmug
i seen that ,still think is larger diameter,0.2 is to thin from what i seen in pics
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 14th, 2012, 02:18 PM
hey guys today i bouth another 74ls08 and test the gate circuit again,but no results,the square wave is without the pin 8 of 74122 conected to pin5 of 7408,and the messy wave is with the two conected...can anyone give a clue,i checed 1000 time ,same result,,,anyone has a working gate circuit???stans does not seems to work or the 74122 is broken!!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 14th, 2012, 04:23 PM
Quote from adys15 on June 14th, 2012, 02:18 PM
hey guys today i bouth another 74ls08 and test the gate circuit again,but no results,the square wave is without the pin 8 of 74122 conected to pin5 of 7408,and the messy wave is with the two conected...can anyone give a clue,i checed 1000 time ,same result,,,anyone has a working gate circuit???stans does not seems to work or the 74122 is broken!!
what is going on "74122"?
Pin "8" is high or low?
You have not sent the schematic.
Again, this part of the gate is not important, not now.
I'm sending the original of Meyer. Now identify your circuit in the figure. and show me where this square wave and seeing the other comments it deems relevant.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 15th, 2012, 12:04 PM
Quote from Faisca on June 14th, 2012, 04:23 PM
Quote from adys15 on June 14th, 2012, 02:18 PM
hey guys today i bouth another 74ls08 and test the gate circuit again,but no results,the square wave is without the pin 8 of 74122 conected to pin5 of 7408,and the messy wave is with the two conected...can anyone give a clue,i checed 1000 time ,same result,,,anyone has a working gate circuit???stans does not seems to work or the 74122 is broken!!
what is going on "74122"?
Pin "8" is high or low?
You have not sent the schematic.
Again, this part of the gate is not important, not now.
I'm sending the original of Meyer. Now identify your circuit in the figure. and show me where this square wave and seeing the other comments it deems relevant.
the circuit is just like Stans patentyou posted,the square wave is on pin 8 of the 7408,without pin 8 of 74122 conected,the ripples is with the pin 8 of 74122 con to pin 5 of 7408
the gating is important because I finished the vic and canot test it,what do i conect to scanner?? if i dont have all the circuits

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 16th, 2012, 10:15 AM
Quote from adys15 on June 15th, 2012, 12:04 PM
Quote from Faisca on June 14th, 2012, 04:23 PM
Quote from adys15 on June 14th, 2012, 02:18 PM
hey guys today i bouth another 74ls08 and test the gate circuit again,but no results,the square wave is without the pin 8 of 74122 conected to pin5 of 7408,and the messy wave is with the two conected...can anyone give a clue,i checed 1000 time ,same result,,,anyone has a working gate circuit???stans does not seems to work or the 74122 is broken!!
what is going on "74122"?
Pin "8" is high or low?
You have not sent the schematic.
Again, this part of the gate is not important, not now.
I'm sending the original of Meyer. Now identify your circuit in the figure. and show me where this square wave and seeing the other comments it deems relevant.
the circuit is just like Stans patentyou posted,the square wave is on pin 8 of the 7408,without pin 8 of 74122 conected,the ripples is with the pin 8 of 74122 con to pin 5 of 7408
the gating is important because I finished the vic and canot test it,what do i conect to scanner?? if i dont have all the circuits
My friend Adys.
You're heating up your head with anything. (Missing school).
Consider:
This part of the circuit, if not enter anything, nothing happens (as you say, as you saw).
At the entrance (M1 or B) if there are pulses, they are attuned / different (by two "nor-gate") feeding pin "3" and "4" "74122", this will be set the pulse width (the "P5 ").
In the [K] if so, disable pin "4" 7408 ("and gate") the same thing with the pin "9" ("cell off"), disabling the output [A] in "Q11".
In other words, insert pulses [M] or and observe them in [A], if you turn the key "cell off" or get in [K], no longer will have output [A]
I recommend: Do not disconnect pin "5" and "8". (to do this?) doing this will get noise and this is what you are seeing.

This is not the most productive way to learn electronics, not this forum, here we are learning the technology of Meyer.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on June 18th, 2012, 01:36 PM
I added an excelsheet to the first post with Farnell and Mouser component lists for the VIC v1.1 pcb.
Sharky
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 19th, 2012, 01:50 PM
Hey guys,first of all MANNY MANNY THANKS TO TONNY WOODSIDE FOR MAKING THIS POSIBLE,and you guys for helping me.I have finished my VIC ..at least,but does not sure if i conected the pins corectely,and I don't realy know how to measure this thing,on the test BNC i get a scrambled signal,and on the pin 4 of 4046 i get some square wave..see att,sorry for the mess,i turn my room in an workshop:))
I have no transfermer hooked on it ,just the pulse freq gen,and i observed that the pll lock in stais on all the time ,same the ''osc led',Ican adjust the scaner ,but i can varry the voltage amplitude,where i measure that?I think the real testing will be with the transformer because i have to receive the signal from the feedback coil trough pulse indicator no? any comments?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: sniperam on June 20th, 2012, 07:05 AM
Quote from Sharky on June 18th, 2012, 01:36 PM
I added an excelsheet to the first post with Farnell and Mouser component lists for the VIC v1.1 pcb.
Sharky
Hello Sharky,

I found this electrical component web site http://www.futurlec.com/(http://www.futurlec.com/). They have all the component for the vic pcb for a lower price than mouser (max $30) and the shipping is around $6. The only thing is in the vic part list there are some capacitor that are high voltage (500V) rated, but I only find in futurlec 50V rated. Is it critical assuming that the vic work at low voltage?

Also, I would like your opinion about their low price pcb service. http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml(http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml)

Thanks


Sniperam
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on June 20th, 2012, 07:45 AM
Guy's' you should watch these videos from Jon Able, he has hit resonance, here is the link,:cool::D
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=599
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on June 20th, 2012, 10:32 AM
Quote from sniperam on June 20th, 2012, 07:05 AM
Quote from Sharky on June 18th, 2012, 01:36 PM
I added an excelsheet to the first post with Farnell and Mouser component lists for the VIC v1.1 pcb.
Sharky
Hello Sharky,

I found this electrical component web site http://www.futurlec.com/(http://www.futurlec.com/). They have all the component for the vic pcb for a lower price than mouser (max $30) and the shipping is around $6. The only thing is in the vic part list there are some capacitor that are high voltage (500V) rated, but I only find in futurlec 50V rated. Is it critical assuming that the vic work at low voltage?

Also, I would like your opinion about their low price pcb service. http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml(http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml)

Thanks


Sniperam
Any cap rated 35V or higher will do since we indeed are only working with low voltage on the circuitry. The thing is that some suppliers sell only higher rated caps so the 50V caps will do.

The price for futurlec pcb's seems good. I can not say anything on the quality as i have not seen a board from them. things to watch are board thickness, are they gold plated?, protection layer?, etc. You could try and order 2 of the v1.1 pcb's, size is 100x130 mm so price will be $63 plus shipping and handling. Cheaper than i could get them!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on June 21st, 2012, 05:44 PM
Someone else, can reproduce this experiment?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on June 25th, 2012, 03:17 AM
Sniperam found some errors in the partlist excelsheet which are now corrected. Thank you sniperam for the feedback on that!!

If somebody orders his components from an other supplier than Farnell or Mouser please add the partnumbers to the excelsheet in a new sheet and sent it to me so i will upload the updated version to the first post of this thread.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on June 27th, 2012, 12:04 AM
Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 06:05 AM
Several people already have build their VIC circuits based on pictures and the schematics from WO9207861. If we want to replicate Meyers work and get the cell to work we need the complete schematics. Since 'they' only sell their complete VIC schematics and do not give the full design for free its time to work it out completely and offer it for FREE (yes i share the thoughts of Russ that this will only work if all is available for free).

Haxar already did some fine work in tracing the VIC card. I now started to completely design the entire VIC with KICAD. I choose this toolset because it is available on Linux/Windows, it is open-source, reasonable easy to learn, it supports nested schematics, it comes with a good autorouter function and has the abillity to generate gerber files for pcb manufacturing. Anyway, ... if you do not like KICAD it is your problem :P, else download it at http://kicad.sourceforge.net. I used KiCad-2011-12-28-BZR3254-stable-Win_full_with_components_doc_install.exe from http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/cao/ . If you download the snapshots the libraries will not get installed. Download the project zip file and use the unarchive option in the KiCad main menu to load it.

Complete:
- variable pulse generator
- gated pulse generator
- phase lock loop circuit
- pulse indicator circuit
- resonant scanning circuit
- Voltage Amplitude Control
- cell driver circuit

Schematics build on prototype board and verified:
- variable pulse generator
- gated pulse generator
- phase lock loop circuit
- pulse indicator circuit
- resonant scanning circuit
- Voltage Amplitude Control
- cell driver circuit

PCB:
- Components to modules complete for current schematic
- Components placed and traces made
- Generated Gerber files

Latest KiCad project file date: 14 may 2012

Regards,
Sharky
Hello all :

There are just someone error on reference.
1467868 --> 9558551
it s this product ?

good job
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on June 27th, 2012, 03:39 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on June 27th, 2012, 12:04 AM
Hello all :

There are just someone error on reference.
1467868 --> 9558551
it s this product ?

good job
Thanks !! Probably that item is no longer available, you are correct that 9558551 is a correct replacement. Updated the xls sheet.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on June 29th, 2012, 03:48 PM
guys,where i have to conect my osciloscope on the vic to see the scaning and if it is looking?Sharky,how i design your schematic with thicker tracs,because the toner metod would not work with thouse thin tracks,btw your vic does all it supposed do to?i see russ and maybe others build it but no feedback,does it work or not?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on July 30th, 2012, 06:23 AM
Since i just saw today the remarks of user 'Ray Don' on the pcb v1.1 ordering thread which is now closed by Russ i would like to post my thoughts over here, ..... just in case somebody doubts my intentions (i know that Russ and a few others do not and never have!).

So lets be as transparent as i can be:

- To come to the current version 1.1 of the Meyer vic pcb design i roughly spent about 125-150 hours of my spare time.
- I ordered 14 boards at a total cost of 133.50 euros which is 9.50 euros per board
- 2 for me, 1 for haxar (for doing the trace) and 2 for Russ have not been paid for so that leaves 9 * 20 euro = 180 euros
- 2 persons did not pay while i did sent them the boards so i actually received 7 * 20 = 140 euros for the boards.
- sending the boards to Russ costed me about 6.80 euros because i decided that Russ did not have to pay for anything.

Conclusion, ... i have lost about 0.30 eurocents on the ordering and spent about 150 hours of my valuable time. So yes my boards and those of Russ and Haxar have been paid for by the community (the rest of you that ordered a board) but in my opinion a small payment for so much work and effort put into it.

To  'Ray Don', if you know anything about electronics you would know that 20 euros for a 100x140 gold plated board is dead cheap, ... in fact i challenge you to get it cheaper (without ordering 100's of them at once), the gerber files are in the first post of this thread (yes it is open source and available to all) so be my guest and start your Meyer webshop with it. Mentioning RWG Research and Haxar's name on the PCB was nothing more than to honor their hard work on it.

I prefer to stay here on the forums and try to bring this quest to a good end in collobaration with all those brilant minds that do occupy these forums!!

Lets not get our minds distracted and keep focusing on all the good discussions going on here on the forums!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on July 30th, 2012, 07:08 AM
Quote from Sharky on July 30th, 2012, 06:23 AM
Since i just saw today the remarks of user 'Ray Don' on the pcb v1.1 ordering thread which is now closed by Russ i would like to post my thoughts over here, ..... just in case somebody doubts my intentions (i know that Russ and a few others do not and never have!).

So lets be as transparent as i can be:

- To come to the current version 1.1 of the Meyer vic pcb design i roughly spent about 125-150 hours of my spare time.
- I ordered 14 boards at a total cost of 133.50 euros which is 9.50 euros per board
- 2 for me, 1 for haxar (for doing the trace) and 2 for Russ have not been paid for so that leaves 9 * 20 euro = 180 euros
- 2 persons did not pay while i did sent them the boards so i actually received 7 * 20 = 140 euros for the boards.
- sending the boards to Russ costed me about 6.80 euros because i decided that Russ did not have to pay for anything.

Conclusion, ... i have lost about 0.30 eurocents on the ordering and spent about 150 hours of my valuable time. So yes my boards and those of Russ and Haxar have been paid for by the community (the rest of you that ordered a board) but in my opinion a small payment for so much work and effort put into it.

To  'Ray Don', if you know anything about electronics you would know that 20 euros for a 100x140 gold plated board is dead cheap, ... in fact i challenge you to get it cheaper (without ordering 100's of them at once), the gerber files are in the first post of this thread (yes it is open source and available to all) so be my guest and start your Meyer webshop with it. Mentioning RWG Research and Haxar's name on the PCB was nothing more than to honor their hard work on it.

I prefer to stay here on the forums and try to bring this quest to a good end in collobaration with all those brilant minds that do occupy these forums!!

Lets not get our minds distracted and keep focusing on all the good discussions going on here on the forums!
Hi Sharky,  yours and others who worked and are still working on the electronics and all other fazes of this work are very much appreciated.:D We all know you lost money on this project, :angel:  again very much appreciated. I won't mention the guy's name that brought up this situation, but he has been dealt with, Russ and I don't have much hair left because of this, but it's over now and hope that the peace on the forum, support and cooperation continue to blossom. You and others have done some great work here and I know dedicated individuals like yourself will continue to do so. So, we all want to thank you for your hard work and dedication, thanks, Jeff.:D:D:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on July 30th, 2012, 10:43 AM
Quote from Sharky on July 30th, 2012, 06:23 AM
Since i just saw today the remarks of user 'Ray Don' on the pcb v1.1 ordering thread which is now closed by Russ i would like to post my thoughts over here, ..... just in case somebody doubts my intentions (i know that Russ and a few others do not and never have!).

So lets be as transparent as i can be:

- To come to the current version 1.1 of the Meyer vic pcb design i roughly spent about 125-150 hours of my spare time.
- I ordered 14 boards at a total cost of 133.50 euros which is 9.50 euros per board
- 2 for me, 1 for haxar (for doing the trace) and 2 for Russ have not been paid for so that leaves 9 * 20 euro = 180 euros
- 2 persons did not pay while i did sent them the boards so i actually received 7 * 20 = 140 euros for the boards.
- sending the boards to Russ costed me about 6.80 euros because i decided that Russ did not have to pay for anything.

Conclusion, ... i have lost about 0.30 eurocents on the ordering and spent about 150 hours of my valuable time. So yes my boards and those of Russ and Haxar have been paid for by the community (the rest of you that ordered a board) but in my opinion a small payment for so much work and effort put into it.

To  'Ray Don', if you know anything about electronics you would know that 20 euros for a 100x140 gold plated board is dead cheap, ... in fact i challenge you to get it cheaper (without ordering 100's of them at once), the gerber files are in the first post of this thread (yes it is open source and available to all) so be my guest and start your Meyer webshop with it. Mentioning RWG Research and Haxar's name on the PCB was nothing more than to honor their hard work on it.

I prefer to stay here on the forums and try to bring this quest to a good end in collobaration with all those brilant minds that do occupy these forums!!

Lets not get our minds distracted and keep focusing on all the good discussions going on here on the forums!
Hello sharky
is it possible to buy the two cards?

Alex
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: ddrum on July 30th, 2012, 03:20 PM
Is this the end to the Stanley Meyer project?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on July 30th, 2012, 03:34 PM
Quote from ddrum on July 30th, 2012, 03:20 PM
Is this the end to the Stanley Meyer project?
No way dude !!!!! Still working very hard on Stan's technology.:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: ddrum on July 30th, 2012, 04:08 PM
Whew.....Thank God! Keep up the great work!! Forums just seem kinda quiet lately.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on July 30th, 2012, 04:25 PM
Quote from ddrum on July 30th, 2012, 04:08 PM
Whew.....Thank God! Keep up the great work!! Forums just seem kinda quiet lately.
Yes, everyone's working on the projects at hand and no time to post, thanks, Jeff.:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on August 5th, 2012, 09:58 AM
Hello all

I search a reference (farnell or other) of bigger potentiometer. (see image)
Someone can help me ?

Thank you so much

Alex
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on August 5th, 2012, 05:07 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on August 5th, 2012, 09:58 AM
Hello all

I search a reference (farnell or other) of bigger potentiometer. (see image)
Someone can help me ?

Thank you so much

Alex
Try these
http://www.digikey.com/

http://www.mouser.com/

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1


Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on August 5th, 2012, 11:33 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on August 5th, 2012, 09:58 AM
Hello all

I search a reference (farnell or other) of bigger potentiometer. (see image)
Someone can help me ?

Thank you so much

Alex
If you mean the 'big' one with the five wires then that is not a potentiometer but a 4 position switch. You could use farnel # 1123704

Kind Regards,
Sharky
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Gunther Rattay on August 6th, 2012, 04:30 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on August 5th, 2012, 09:58 AM
Hello all

I search a reference (farnell or other) of bigger potentiometer. (see image)
Someone can help me ?

Thank you so much

Alex
What exactly do you mean by bigger potentiometer? more turns to get an expanded scale for frequency?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on August 7th, 2012, 08:22 AM
Thank you so much all for your answer.

Alex
I added this reference farnell in vic-1.1-component-list.xls
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: pjb on September 12th, 2012, 10:08 PM
Hi Sharky and Others

First I would like to say thanks for all your efforts here

I am new to this game , I feel like Im in grade 2  again


I bought a Vic circuit off from GlobalKast

Complete VIC Circuit - Comes with all the components fully assembled. The VIC Circuit includes the following circuits all on one PCB: "Variable Pulse Frequency Generator", "Gated Pulse Frequency Generator", "Phase Lock Circuit", "Resonant Scanning Circuit", Resonant Feedback", and "Cell Driver Circuit". All you would need is a properly constructed Cell, Transformer

Ive got the cell  and now I would like to build the Transformer

1.   Can anyone tell me what the Core should be built out of ?

2.   and what size wiring  ?

Thanks

Pete
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: energyrich626 on September 25th, 2012, 06:37 PM
So what is the pdf with all correct info updated?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on October 16th, 2012, 01:07 PM
Hello all!me again with the gated freq gen.i manage to solve the tiny problems on Stans skematic all working good i get a controlable square wave coming out of the 9xa at 1,2,3,freq ranges and outputing the 74ls122 on pin8.BUT the problem is at 4th frq range(the one coming out directly of the 555 cip),i get a week distorted signal and is not controlable by the 74122.My thoughts are:

1.the 74122 cannot handle other waves than the square ones ,and pin3 of the555 does not output a  perfect square wave.

2.I tried hooking up 2 more pots for freq adj. and when i let all 3 of  them at minimum i can see and control the wave with the 74122,when i raise the freq the signal gets distorted again.

So what can i do?Is there any electronics GURU on this forum that can help me?i strugle with this circuit for over 5 monts,i cannot start any experiments with the coils because of this... i am going CRAZYYYYYY.....Thanks in advance!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on October 16th, 2012, 01:34 PM
Quote from adys15 on October 16th, 2012, 01:07 PM
Hello all!me again with the gated freq gen.i manage to solve the tiny problems on Stans skematic all working good i get a controlable square wave coming out of the 9xa at 1,2,3,freq ranges and outputing the 74ls122 on pin8.BUT the problem is at 4th frq range(the one coming out directly of the 555 cip),i get a week distorted signal and is not controlable by the 74122.My thoughts are:

1.the 74122 cannot handle other waves than the square ones ,and pin3 of the555 does not output a  perfect square wave.

2.I tried hooking up 2 more pots for freq adj. and when i let all 3 of  them at minimum i can see and control the wave with the 74122,when i raise the freq the signal gets distorted again.

So what can i do?Is there any electronics GURU on this forum that can help me?i strugle with this circuit for over 5 monts,i cannot start any experiments with the coils because of this... i am going CRAZYYYYYY.....Thanks in advance!
Hi adys15, there is a new member who might be able to help you here:
http://open-source-energy.org/?action=profile;u=10019
You might ask him, he has an electronics background.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on October 16th, 2012, 01:43 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on October 16th, 2012, 01:34 PM
Quote from adys15 on October 16th, 2012, 01:07 PM
Hello all!me again with the gated freq gen.i manage to solve the tiny problems on Stans skematic all working good i get a controlable square wave coming out of the 9xa at 1,2,3,freq ranges and outputing the 74ls122 on pin8.BUT the problem is at 4th frq range(the one coming out directly of the 555 cip),i get a week distorted signal and is not controlable by the 74122.My thoughts are:

1.the 74122 cannot handle other waves than the square ones ,and pin3 of the555 does not output a  perfect square wave.

2.I tried hooking up 2 more pots for freq adj. and when i let all 3 of  them at minimum i can see and control the wave with the 74122,when i raise the freq the signal gets distorted again.

So what can i do?Is there any electronics GURU on this forum that can help me?i strugle with this circuit for over 5 monts,i cannot start any experiments with the coils because of this... i am going CRAZYYYYYY.....Thanks in advance!
Hi adys15, there is a new member who might be able to help you here:
http://open-source-energy.org/?action=profile;u=10019
You might ask him, he has an electronics background.
Thanks Jeff i was thinking at that guy too..i read his posts...i sent him a mail...and waiting..
Sharky ?what he is doing ?i did not see any posts or feedback from his experiments with the vic cards that he build...
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on October 16th, 2012, 01:55 PM
Quote from adys15 on October 16th, 2012, 01:43 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on October 16th, 2012, 01:34 PM
Quote from adys15 on October 16th, 2012, 01:07 PM
Hello all!me again with the gated freq gen.i manage to solve the tiny problems on Stans skematic all working good i get a controlable square wave coming out of the 9xa at 1,2,3,freq ranges and outputing the 74ls122 on pin8.BUT the problem is at 4th frq range(the one coming out directly of the 555 cip),i get a week distorted signal and is not controlable by the 74122.My thoughts are:

1.the 74122 cannot handle other waves than the square ones ,and pin3 of the555 does not output a  perfect square wave.

2.I tried hooking up 2 more pots for freq adj. and when i let all 3 of  them at minimum i can see and control the wave with the 74122,when i raise the freq the signal gets distorted again.

So what can i do?Is there any electronics GURU on this forum that can help me?i strugle with this circuit for over 5 monts,i cannot start any experiments with the coils because of this... i am going CRAZYYYYYY.....Thanks in advance!
Hi adys15, there is a new member who might be able to help you here:
http://open-source-energy.org/?action=profile;u=10019
You might ask him, he has an electronics background.
Thanks Jeff i was thinking at that guy too..i read his posts...i sent him a mail...and waiting..
Sharky ?what he is doing ?i did not see any posts or feedback from his experiments with the vic cards that he build...
Your welcome adys15
Haven't heard from him in a while, don't know what happened.:exclamation:
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on October 16th, 2012, 03:03 PM
here is the skematic from patent we all know with Don;s values except instead of 4001 nor gates, i use 7402 nor gates ..same thing....
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on October 16th, 2012, 04:12 PM
Quote from adys15 on October 16th, 2012, 03:03 PM
here is the skematic from patent we all know with Don;s values except instead of 4001 nor gates, i use 7402 nor gates ..same thing....
Great work adys15, looks good. Have you heard from Mike yet?:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: mzeeshanfahd on October 17th, 2012, 04:44 AM
Hi , I am new to this hardworking people forum and really amaized at the understanding level of you people. I read the whole forum saw the last youtube uploaded which shows the waveform replicated and suggested in the end that tip120 and some other transistors (don't exactly remember the numbers of them) do not work as proposed in the final schematic, and proposed some other power transistor along with the other transistors well .....are they updated in the current v1.1 schematic or we will have these in the ver2 of the same cct.  
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on October 17th, 2012, 06:21 AM
Still alive and kicking but things in my daily life have been hard the last half year and the company i work for is at the verge to go bankrupt. So all that has not allowed me to spent even a few hours on the Meyer tech research. I haven't even had the time to test out the coil and tubeset Russ sent me :s but that does not mean i have given up on the meyer tech, ... i am sure in the future i will find the time to pick up things where i left off but for now i simply do not have the time (and money) to spent it on this 'hobby', ... familly always goes first :exclamation:

Adys, ... are you using the Tony board or our board? Be sure that you place capacitors as near as possible to all timer, pll and other logic because if you do not it can seriously disturb the output signals and thus the square waves, ... meyer also had capacitors all over his boards for the same reason. Tony's board has non so that could pose a problem but not sure what you are using.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 06:40 AM
Hy Sharky nice to ;;hear'' from you again,i am not saying that you gave up,just we havent seen you for a while and dont know what happened.. Here is diagrams i am working with,First the 555 pot is at minimum and when i raise the freq the signal disapears slowly.The pot from 74122 is at max if i turn towards minimum it does the same way....loses signal...see att
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on October 17th, 2012, 06:54 AM
Quote from Sharky on October 17th, 2012, 06:21 AM
Still alive and kicking but things in my daily life have been hard the last half year and the company i work for is at the verge to go bankrupt. So all that has not allowed me to spent even a few hours on the Meyer tech research. I haven't even had the time to test out the coil and tubeset Russ sent me :s but that does not mean i have given up on the meyer tech, ... i am sure in the future i will find the time to pick up things where i left off but for now i simply do not have the time (and money) to spent it on this 'hobby', ... familly always goes first :exclamation:

Adys, ... are you using the Tony board or our board? Be sure that you place capacitors as near as possible to all timer, pll and other logic because if you do not it can seriously disturb the output signals and thus the square waves, ... meyer also had capacitors all over his boards for the same reason. Tony's board has non so that could pose a problem but not sure what you are using.
Hi sharky, good to hear from you. :D Sorry to hear of your job situation, :angel: so many of us are running into that. I haven't had an hourly wage job since last April. I want to wish you and yours well, hope things will improve for you shortly, Jeff.:D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Faisca on October 17th, 2012, 07:29 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 06:40 AM
Hy Sharky nice to ;;hear'' from you again,i am not saying that you gave up,just we havent seen you for a while and dont know what happened.. Here is diagrams i am working with,First the 555 pot is at minimum and when i raise the freq the signal disapears slowly.The pot from 74122 is at max if i turn towards minimum it does the same way....loses signal...see att
it's just a matter of adjustment.
Or you increase the capacitor 555 timer to lower the freq, or you decrease the capacitor of mono 74,122 (<1uF), to get the pulses present.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Quote from Faisca on October 17th, 2012, 07:29 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 06:40 AM
Hy Sharky nice to ;;hear'' from you again,i am not saying that you gave up,just we havent seen you for a while and dont know what happened.. Here is diagrams i am working with,First the 555 pot is at minimum and when i raise the freq the signal disapears slowly.The pot from 74122 is at max if i turn towards minimum it does the same way....loses signal...see att
it's just a matter of adjustment.
Or you increase the capacitor 555 timer to lower the freq, or you decrease the capacitor of mono 74,122 (<1uF), to get the pulses present.
can you specify which caps?but if you want higher frequencies on the wfc what do you do?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: mzeeshanfahd on October 17th, 2012, 09:59 PM
sorry I saw the video again it was a diode not transistors and that too in the VIC and not in the pcb circuit, my bad I take my question back, another query that is running in my mind is about the comparision in the circuits the v1.1 on this forum, 9xa, 9xb and 9xd what is the difference between them all has anyone gone through the same, I remember tony uploading the 8xa and 9xa cct schematic so may he is better able to answer and thanks in advance
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on October 18th, 2012, 02:51 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Quote from Faisca on October 17th, 2012, 07:29 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 06:40 AM
Hy Sharky nice to ;;hear'' from you again,i am not saying that you gave up,just we havent seen you for a while and dont know what happened.. Here is diagrams i am working with,First the 555 pot is at minimum and when i raise the freq the signal disapears slowly.The pot from 74122 is at max if i turn towards minimum it does the same way....loses signal...see att
it's just a matter of adjustment.
Or you increase the capacitor 555 timer to lower the freq, or you decrease the capacitor of mono 74,122 (<1uF), to get the pulses present.
can you specify which caps?but if you want higher frequencies on the wfc what do you do?
The output pulse duration is a function of the capacitance and resistance at pins 11 and 13 of the 74122. You have to read and understand the datasheet of the 74122 to change the values to your needs. Attached it for you as reference.

Also your image shows a lot of distortion on the frequency generator output. Did you have capacitors between vcc and gnd on all 555, 7490, 4001, 7404 and 74122 IC's? They do not need to be very big, ... i think i used 33nF in the vic pcb design. Also are you breadboarding or is this from a pcb? Connection, wire and trace quality has impact on the signals as well.
Quote from mzeeshanfahd on October 17th, 2012, 09:59 PM
sorry I saw the video again it was a diode not transistors and that too in the VIC and not in the pcb circuit, my bad I take my question back, another query that is running in my mind is about the comparision in the circuits the v1.1 on this forum, 9xa, 9xb and 9xd what is the difference between them all has anyone gone through the same, I remember tony uploading the 8xa and 9xa cct schematic so may he is better able to answer and thanks in advance
The 8XA and 9XA and B were part of the first systems Meyer created. The v1.1 pcb from this thread is part of the VIC which Meyer later build to run the dune buggy. So they are completely different and can not be interchanged. Part of the first systems you will see back in the latter, e.g. the Variable Pulse Frequency Generator of the VIC is no more than the frequency generator part of the 8XA circuit.

Meyers systems were work in progress engineering systems and to understand all you need to place all on the correct spot of the timeline and you will see his system expand from basic proof of concept setups to pre-production ready systems. A big problem is people intermix different systems and components and that will never work.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on October 18th, 2012, 03:10 AM
Quote from Sharky on October 18th, 2012, 02:51 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Quote from Faisca on October 17th, 2012, 07:29 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 06:40 AM
Hy Sharky nice to ;;hear'' from you again,i am not saying that you gave up,just we havent seen you for a while and dont know what happened.. Here is diagrams i am working with,First the 555 pot is at minimum and when i raise the freq the signal disapears slowly.The pot from 74122 is at max if i turn towards minimum it does the same way....loses signal...see att
it's just a matter of adjustment.
Or you increase the capacitor 555 timer to lower the freq, or you decrease the capacitor of mono 74,122 (<1uF), to get the pulses present.
can you specify which caps?but if you want higher frequencies on the wfc what do you do?
The output pulse duration is a function of the capacitance and resistance at pins 11 and 13 of the 74122. You have to read and understand the datasheet of the 74122 to change the values to your needs. Attached it for you as reference.

Also your image shows a lot of distortion on the frequency generator output. Did you have capacitors between vcc and gnd on all 555, 7490, 4001, 7404 and 74122 IC's? They do not need to be very big, ... i think i used 33nF in the vic pcb design. Also are you breadboarding or is this from a pcb? Connection, wire and trace quality has impact on the signals as well.
Thanks Sharky,i know the basics of the 74122 and how it works.I am working on the pcb,and construct the boards by Tony design,and are exactly like Stans original skematics provided by Don(i have just 9xa and gated pulse on separated pcbs)no pll conected yet,i just want to achive resonance thats by bigest goal:d .,i know the caps filter the signal but why Stan did not put them,Tony also,in your skematic the same no extra caps on thhouse crkts.Ihave a pc scope the signal is fed directly on the soundcard mic....so maibe this couses a distorsion.

From what i saw the 555is outputing sharp signals and thats why 74122 cannot process them,it wants square waves...the 1x,2x,3x freq proceses normaly.I will try with the caps like you said and see whats hapens...thanks for input...Cheers!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on October 18th, 2012, 11:47 AM
I tried placing 40nF  between vcc and gnd of all the cips,and no change in the signal,actualy it maid it a bit worst....i changed also the 1mf cap between the pins 11-13 on 74122 and is not distording the signal but you dont have enough adjustment just from 30%mark to 0%,you cannot adjust the space.All in all i quit working on this crkt,is verry frustrating,i will try to build the 9xb because you have the gating independent but from what i see on the 9xa you dont have full range adjustment of the trail of pulses....what do you guys think?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: energyrich626 on October 23rd, 2012, 06:40 PM
Quote from Sharky on October 18th, 2012, 02:51 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Quote from Faisca on October 17th, 2012, 07:29 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 06:40 AM
The 8XA and 9XA and B were part of the first systems Meyer created. The v1.1 pcb from this thread is part of the VIC which Meyer later build to run the dune buggy. So they are completely different and can not be interchanged. Part of the first systems you will see back in the latter, e.g. the Variable Pulse Frequency Generator of the VIC is no more than the frequency generator part of the 8XA circuit.

Meyers systems were work in progress engineering systems and to understand all you need to place all on the correct spot of the timeline and you will see his system expand from basic proof of concept setups to pre-production ready systems. A big problem is people intermix different systems and components and that will never work.
What system set up is best ???
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on October 23rd, 2012, 07:12 PM
Quote from energyrich626 on October 23rd, 2012, 06:40 PM
Quote from Sharky on October 18th, 2012, 02:51 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Quote from Faisca on October 17th, 2012, 07:29 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 06:40 AM
The 8XA and 9XA and B were part of the first systems Meyer created. The v1.1 pcb from this thread is part of the VIC which Meyer later build to run the dune buggy. So they are completely different and can not be interchanged. Part of the first systems you will see back in the latter, e.g. the Variable Pulse Frequency Generator of the VIC is no more than the frequency generator part of the 8XA circuit.

Meyers systems were work in progress engineering systems and to understand all you need to place all on the correct spot of the timeline and you will see his system expand from basic proof of concept setups to pre-production ready systems. A big problem is people intermix different systems and components and that will never work.
What system set up is best ???
That's a good question at this point, there are four different systems none of which have really been tested with all the bells and whistles yet. :D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: ~Russ on October 23rd, 2012, 10:48 PM
Quote from energyrich626 on October 23rd, 2012, 06:40 PM
Quote from Sharky on October 18th, 2012, 02:51 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Quote from Faisca on October 17th, 2012, 07:29 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 06:40 AM
The 8XA and 9XA and B were part of the first systems Meyer created. The v1.1 pcb from this thread is part of the VIC which Meyer later build to run the dune buggy. So they are completely different and can not be interchanged. Part of the first systems you will see back in the latter, e.g. the Variable Pulse Frequency Generator of the VIC is no more than the frequency generator part of the 8XA circuit.

Meyers systems were work in progress engineering systems and to understand all you need to place all on the correct spot of the timeline and you will see his system expand from basic proof of concept setups to pre-production ready systems. A big problem is people intermix different systems and components and that will never work.
What system set up is best ???
your best bet is the "The 8XA and 9XA and B were part of the first systems Meyer created"

thus far i think that its the place to start as at least its able to make some usable gas...

the other systems are not understood well enough yet...

these are my thoughts... ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Gunther Rattay on October 24th, 2012, 01:56 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on October 23rd, 2012, 07:12 PM
Quote from energyrich626 on October 23rd, 2012, 06:40 PM
Quote from Sharky on October 18th, 2012, 02:51 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Quote from Faisca on October 17th, 2012, 07:29 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 17th, 2012, 06:40 AM
The 8XA and 9XA and B were part of the first systems Meyer created. The v1.1 pcb from this thread is part of the VIC which Meyer later build to run the dune buggy. So they are completely different and can not be interchanged. Part of the first systems you will see back in the latter, e.g. the Variable Pulse Frequency Generator of the VIC is no more than the frequency generator part of the 8XA circuit.

Meyers systems were work in progress engineering systems and to understand all you need to place all on the correct spot of the timeline and you will see his system expand from basic proof of concept setups to pre-production ready systems. A big problem is people intermix different systems and components and that will never work.
What system set up is best ???
That's a good question at this point, there are four different systems none of which have really been tested with all the bells and whistles yet. :D
no testing - no progress! that seems to be actual status here at the moment.
 
why?

asking questions makes sense as long as there´s somebody else who has got answers by experiments. we know that there is no one out there who can answer our questions by theory.

many questions get answered by Meyer´s docs but does that really help to make hho production start?

no, hho production starts in a real live experimental configuration.

who really jumps into that? who wants to spend money and time into that?

for anybody wanting to build something the answer means he has to build all configurations as Meyer did step by step.

we could do that by load sharing so that not everyone has to build the same configuration. but there would be a benefit to do so so that results can be compared.

but first step would be to set up a list of members showing

- who is working on which detailed configuration
- actual status / updated
- results
- result discussion






Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on October 24th, 2012, 04:38 AM
Quote from bussi04 on October 24th, 2012, 01:56 AM
no testing - no progress! that seems to be actual status here at the moment.
 
why?

asking questions makes sense as long as there´s somebody else who has got answers by experiments. we know that there is no one out there who can answer our questions by theory.

many questions get answered by Meyer´s docs but does that really help to make hho production start?

no, hho production starts in a real live experimental configuration.

who really jumps into that? who wants to spend money and time into that?

for anybody wanting to build something the answer means he has to build all configurations as Meyer did step by step.

we could do that by load sharing so that not everyone has to build the same configuration. but there would be a benefit to do so so that results can be compared.

but first step would be to set up a list of members showing

- who is working on which detailed configuration
- actual status / updated
- results
- result discussion
Most of us did a lot of work in the last few years trying to make something work. Allthough there has been some progress in understanding how it 'should' work we must acknowledge that until now there have been no noticeable results. At least i have not seen anything that produces better than electrolisys HHO generation.

I myself thought that after trying to build systems based on the patents that did not work the best next step would be trying to reproduce/replicate the exact Meyer systems based on photo and video material, see if they work and than try to understand what happens. This neither seems to work allthough i still need to do a lot of testing.

In my opinion we should go back to KISS and try to get some basic results with the Electrical Polarization Process. If that principle at all works we should get better than electrolysis performance.

Aside from the forums i also think that the only way to move forward on this is to actually fysically work together on this. There are quite some brillant minds on this forum but they would work a lot faster being in the same room than discussing through the forums. Also joining resources like materials and machining capabilities would be benificial. I agree that it would be difficult to achieve but if we could form teams of geographically near people that get together say once or twice a month to work together we could achieve more.

What do you guys think about this?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Gunther Rattay on October 24th, 2012, 04:49 PM
Quote from Sharky on October 24th, 2012, 04:38 AM
Quote from bussi04 on October 24th, 2012, 01:56 AM
no testing - no progress! that seems to be actual status here at the moment.
 
why?

asking questions makes sense as long as there´s somebody else who has got answers by experiments. we know that there is no one out there who can answer our questions by theory.

many questions get answered by Meyer´s docs but does that really help to make hho production start?

no, hho production starts in a real live experimental configuration.

who really jumps into that? who wants to spend money and time into that?

for anybody wanting to build something the answer means he has to build all configurations as Meyer did step by step.

we could do that by load sharing so that not everyone has to build the same configuration. but there would be a benefit to do so so that results can be compared.

but first step would be to set up a list of members showing

- who is working on which detailed configuration
- actual status / updated
- results
- result discussion
Most of us did a lot of work in the last few years trying to make something work. Allthough there has been some progress in understanding how it 'should' work we must acknowledge that until now there have been no noticeable results. At least i have not seen anything that produces better than electrolisys HHO generation.

I myself thought that after trying to build systems based on the patents that did not work the best next step would be trying to reproduce/replicate the exact Meyer systems based on photo and video material, see if they work and than try to understand what happens. This neither seems to work allthough i still need to do a lot of testing.

In my opinion we should go back to KISS and try to get some basic results with the Electrical Polarization Process. If that principle at all works we should get better than electrolysis performance.

Aside from the forums i also think that the only way to move forward on this is to actually fysically work together on this. There are quite some brillant minds on this forum but they would work a lot faster being in the same room than discussing through the forums. Also joining resources like materials and machining capabilities would be benificial. I agree that it would be difficult to achieve but if we could form teams of geographically near people that get together say once or twice a month to work together we could achieve more.

What do you guys think about this?
good idea. that´s the reason why I added "Germany" to my posts a year ago.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on October 24th, 2012, 05:22 PM
Quote from bussi04 on October 24th, 2012, 04:49 PM
Quote from Sharky on October 24th, 2012, 04:38 AM
Quote from bussi04 on October 24th, 2012, 01:56 AM
no testing - no progress! that seems to be actual status here at the moment.
 
why?

asking questions makes sense as long as there´s somebody else who has got answers by experiments. we know that there is no one out there who can answer our questions by theory.

many questions get answered by Meyer´s docs but does that really help to make hho production start?

no, hho production starts in a real live experimental configuration.

who really jumps into that? who wants to spend money and time into that?

for anybody wanting to build something the answer means he has to build all configurations as Meyer did step by step.

we could do that by load sharing so that not everyone has to build the same configuration. but there would be a benefit to do so so that results can be compared.

but first step would be to set up a list of members showing

- who is working on which detailed configuration
- actual status / updated
- results
- result discussion
Most of us did a lot of work in the last few years trying to make something work. Allthough there has been some progress in understanding how it 'should' work we must acknowledge that until now there have been no noticeable results. At least i have not seen anything that produces better than electrolisys HHO generation.

I myself thought that after trying to build systems based on the patents that did not work the best next step would be trying to reproduce/replicate the exact Meyer systems based on photo and video material, see if they work and than try to understand what happens. This neither seems to work allthough i still need to do a lot of testing.

In my opinion we should go back to KISS and try to get some basic results with the Electrical Polarization Process. If that principle at all works we should get better than electrolysis performance.

Aside from the forums i also think that the only way to move forward on this is to actually fysically work together on this. There are quite some brillant minds on this forum but they would work a lot faster being in the same room than discussing through the forums. Also joining resources like materials and machining capabilities would be benificial. I agree that it would be difficult to achieve but if we could form teams of geographically near people that get together say once or twice a month to work together we could achieve more.

What do you guys think about this?
good idea. that´s the reason why I added "Germany" to my posts a year ago.
I agree to Sharky, to have teams pooling resources then working together would be of great benefit.:D
PS. Don't know if you had seen this one yet Sharky, it's just for you, here
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=781  :D
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sharky on October 25th, 2012, 03:20 AM
I have created a new thread to see everybodies response on the subject: http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=785
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on October 29th, 2012, 02:40 PM
i finish to assembled a different board

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on October 29th, 2012, 03:19 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 29th, 2012, 02:40 PM
i finish to assembled a different board
Have you tried it?
Did you get it to work?
Good job btw :)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: ~Russ on October 29th, 2012, 10:24 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 29th, 2012, 02:40 PM
i finish to assembled a different board
:)

nice work!!

it looks like you got one of everyone you can find!! lol nice work my friend! now you can compare them and show your thoughts on each! :)

hope you do so! god work! ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
Quote from Lynx on October 29th, 2012, 03:19 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 29th, 2012, 02:40 PM
i finish to assembled a different board
Have you tried it?
Did you get it to work?
Good job btw :)
Yes of course! I am doing coiled (coil style 1 of stan meyer).
It's not easy... 3000 spire x3 + 500 + 500 :(

If you have a coil winder under arduino. I am interest.

Alex
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on October 30th, 2012, 08:33 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
Quote from Lynx on October 29th, 2012, 03:19 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 29th, 2012, 02:40 PM
i finish to assembled a different board
Have you tried it?
Did you get it to work?
Good job btw :)
Yes of course! I am doing coiled (coil style 1 of stan meyer).
It's not easy... 3000 spire x3 + 500 + 500 :(

If you have a coil winder under arduino. I am interest.

Alex
Thanks!
Do you also have a WFC ready?
Does it produce hydrogen?
Please let us know how you're doing :)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Quote from Lynx on October 30th, 2012, 08:33 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
Quote from Lynx on October 29th, 2012, 03:19 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 29th, 2012, 02:40 PM
i finish to assembled a different board
Have you tried it?
Did you get it to work?
Good job btw :)
Yes of course! I am doing coiled (coil style 1 of stan meyer).
It's not easy... 3000 spire x3 + 500 + 500 :(

If you have a coil winder under arduino. I am interest.

Alex
Thanks!
Do you also have a WFC ready?
Does it produce hydrogen?
Please let us know how you're doing :)
Ok
My contributions to the project of Stanley Meyer on picture
In this moment I'm just playing with your progress in the domain. But once my coil is finished.
I might be in annoncer result or not :)

https://plus.google.com/photos/109596636524884382415/albums/5804848306524471601?authkey=CN--0rrfrcyoUQ
https://plus.google.com/photos/109596636524884382415/albums/5744373964356251873

Alex
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on October 30th, 2012, 04:35 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Quote from Lynx on October 30th, 2012, 08:33 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
Quote from Lynx on October 29th, 2012, 03:19 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 29th, 2012, 02:40 PM
i finish to assembled a different board
Have you tried it?
Did you get it to work?
Good job btw :)
Yes of course! I am doing coiled (coil style 1 of stan meyer).
It's not easy... 3000 spire x3 + 500 + 500 :(

If you have a coil winder under arduino. I am interest.

Alex
Thanks!
Do you also have a WFC ready?
Does it produce hydrogen?
Please let us know how you're doing :)
Ok
My contributions to the project of Stanley Meyer on picture
In this moment I'm just playing with your progress in the domain. But once my coil is finished.
I might be in annoncer result or not :)

https://plus.google.com/photos/109596636524884382415/albums/5804848306524471601?authkey=CN--0rrfrcyoUQ
https://plus.google.com/photos/109596636524884382415/albums/5744373964356251873

Alex
Looks like some really good work there Jean :cool::D:P
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on October 31st, 2012, 10:04 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on October 30th, 2012, 04:35 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Quote from Lynx on October 30th, 2012, 08:33 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
Quote from Lynx on October 29th, 2012, 03:19 PM
Have you tried it?
Did you get it to work?
Good job btw :)
Yes of course! I am doing coiled (coil style 1 of stan meyer).
It's not easy... 3000 spire x3 + 500 + 500 :(

If you have a coil winder under arduino. I am interest.

Alex
Thanks!
Do you also have a WFC ready?
Does it produce hydrogen?
Please let us know how you're doing :)
Ok
My contributions to the project of Stanley Meyer on picture
In this moment I'm just playing with your progress in the domain. But once my coil is finished.
I might be in annoncer result or not :)

https://plus.google.com/photos/109596636524884382415/albums/5804848306524471601?authkey=CN--0rrfrcyoUQ
https://plus.google.com/photos/109596636524884382415/albums/5744373964356251873

Alex
Looks like some really good work there Jean :cool::D:P
Thanks for sharing!
Good luck :)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: ~Russ on October 31st, 2012, 09:50 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Quote from Lynx on October 30th, 2012, 08:33 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
Quote from Lynx on October 29th, 2012, 03:19 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 29th, 2012, 02:40 PM
i finish to assembled a different board
Have you tried it?
Did you get it to work?
Good job btw :)
Yes of course! I am doing coiled (coil style 1 of stan meyer).
It's not easy... 3000 spire x3 + 500 + 500 :(

If you have a coil winder under arduino. I am interest.

Alex
Thanks!
Do you also have a WFC ready?
Does it produce hydrogen?
Please let us know how you're doing :)
Ok
My contributions to the project of Stanley Meyer on picture
In this moment I'm just playing with your progress in the domain. But once my coil is finished.
I might be in annoncer result or not :)

https://plus.google.com/photos/109596636524884382415/albums/5804848306524471601?authkey=CN--0rrfrcyoUQ
https://plus.google.com/photos/109596636524884382415/albums/5744373964356251873

Alex
some nice work as normal!!! thanks for sharing!! :)

also "If you have a coil winder under arduino. I am interest."

jeff, where is that ardino winder software that some one wrote?? we need to move it to the open projects (http://open-source-energy.org/?fid=47)part of the forum... so others can find it!! ~Russ
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on November 1st, 2012, 06:30 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 31st, 2012, 09:50 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Quote from Lynx on October 30th, 2012, 08:33 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on October 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
Quote from Lynx on October 29th, 2012, 03:19 PM
Have you tried it?
Did you get it to work?
Good job btw :)
Yes of course! I am doing coiled (coil style 1 of stan meyer).
It's not easy... 3000 spire x3 + 500 + 500 :(

If you have a coil winder under arduino. I am interest.

Alex
Thanks!
Do you also have a WFC ready?
Does it produce hydrogen?
Please let us know how you're doing :)
Ok
My contributions to the project of Stanley Meyer on picture
In this moment I'm just playing with your progress in the domain. But once my coil is finished.
I might be in annoncer result or not :)

https://plus.google.com/photos/109596636524884382415/albums/5804848306524471601?authkey=CN--0rrfrcyoUQ
https://plus.google.com/photos/109596636524884382415/albums/5744373964356251873

Alex
some nice work as normal!!! thanks for sharing!! :)

also "If you have a coil winder under arduino. I am interest."

jeff, where is that ardino winder software that some one wrote?? we need to move it to the open projects (http://open-source-energy.org/?fid=47)part of the forum... so others can find it!! ~Russ
I'll find it and post it there.:D I think this is it
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=794
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on November 1st, 2012, 10:23 AM
thank you so much

for my futur project, i think that build a ciul winder.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on November 6th, 2012, 02:46 PM
Hello all,

Just a last question.
How pluged a rang_frequency potentiometer (ref image).
The wire on pin of potentiometer ?
Pin on potentiometer.
A B C pin
&
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 pin
Someone have a schematic ?

reference of pot on farnell:
1123704

thank you :)

PS: sorry for a quality of image :). Father Christmas would bring me a new one.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on November 7th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on November 6th, 2012, 02:46 PM
Hello all,

Just a last question.
How pluged a rang_frequency potentiometer (ref image).
The wire on pin of potentiometer ?
Pin on potentiometer.
A B C pin
&
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 pin
Someone have a schematic ?

reference of pot on farnell:
1123704

thank you :)

PS: sorry for a quality of image :). Father Christmas would bring me a new one.
I cant see clearly but if you have one pin in the middle that is the ground,and the rest are frequency inputs,just in lawton skematics,where he uses rotary pot on the caps for range
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on November 7th, 2012, 02:04 PM
Hy guys today i build and tested Alex Petty circuit...it does NOT work at all!!!I built it exacly like in the skematic.Here are my specs:the skematic with 2 555timers,irf640 mosfet,1000 turns /24awg coil on ferite core,HV diode,water cap 3 inches long,1mm gap.I tried with a larger one 20cm long---1,5mm gap...the same result,it just steps a little the voltage from 5-7v on all the freq ranges.I used some 30 caps from a few pF to 470nF..nothing...The signal looks like a 50hz square wave signal and where the space soposed to be is (many waves,the freq of the caps) dont know why it looks like that, it is not keeping the signal output of the 4093,,I tried with a 9v batery,,,and little changes in the shape of the signal,Remember i build ''the simplest wfc energization...'' I also used a inverted transformer and 2 bif coils and from 30v output/no load i get 3v with load...so no resonance...Any thoughts????
Hy guys, today i build and tested Alex;s circuit...it does NOT work at all!!!I built it exacly like in the skematic.Here are my specs:the skematic with 2 555timers,irf640 mosfet,1000 turns /24awg coil on ferite core,HV diode,water cap 3 inches long,1mm gap.I tried with a larger one 20cm long---1,5mm gap...the same result,it just steps a little the voltage from 5-7v on all the freq ranges.I used some 30 caps from a few pF to 470nF..nothing...The signal looks like a 50hz  square signal and where the space soposed to be is (many waves,the freq of the caps) dont know why it looks like that it is not keeping the signal output of the 4093,,I tried with a 9v batery,,,and little changes in the shape of the signal,Remember i build ''the simplest wfc energization...'' I also used a inverted transformer and 2 bif coils and from 30v output/no load i get 3v with load...so no resonance...Any thoughts????
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: sebosfato on November 10th, 2012, 04:49 AM
Quote from adys15 on November 7th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on November 6th, 2012, 02:46 PM
Hello all,

Just a last question.
How pluged a rang_frequency potentiometer (ref image).
The wire on pin of potentiometer ?
Pin on potentiometer.
A B C pin
&
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 pin
Someone have a schematic ?

reference of pot on farnell:
1123704

thank you :)

PS: sorry for a quality of image :). Father Christmas would bring me a new one.
I cant see clearly but if you have one pin in the middle that is the ground,and the rest are frequency inputs,just in lawton skematics,where he uses rotary pot on the caps for range
look, if that is a 4 way switch, the A is associated with pins 1 2 3 and 4, B is associated to 5 6 7 8 and so on.

for sake of clarity in the 1 position A is connected to 1 B to 5 and C 9

regards
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: adys15 on November 11th, 2012, 01:58 PM
guys !who has an acount on ''waterfuelcell.org'' ?I also had one and the admin.was disabled it.now i had to pay to register again.i ask you because i want the schematics that crux has.is under projects  bymembers section.maibe one of you can enter and find those skematics..Cheers!
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on November 16th, 2012, 03:51 PM
Quote from sebosfato on November 10th, 2012, 04:49 AM
Quote from adys15 on November 7th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on November 6th, 2012, 02:46 PM
Hello all,

Just a last question.
How pluged a rang_frequency potentiometer (ref image).
The wire on pin of potentiometer ?
Pin on potentiometer.
A B C pin
&
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 pin
Someone have a schematic ?

reference of pot on farnell:
1123704

thank you :)

PS: sorry for a quality of image :). Father Christmas would bring me a new one.
I cant see clearly but if you have one pin in the middle that is the ground,and the rest are frequency inputs,just in lawton skematics,where he uses rotary pot on the caps for range
look, if that is a 4 way switch, the A is associated with pins 1 2 3 and 4, B is associated to 5 6 7 8 and so on.

for sake of clarity in the 1 position A is connected to 1 B to 5 and C 9

regards
Ok thx sebosfato:idea:
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on November 17th, 2012, 07:55 PM
Quote from sebosfato on November 10th, 2012, 04:49 AM
Quote from adys15 on November 7th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on November 6th, 2012, 02:46 PM
Hello all,

Just a last question.
How pluged a rang_frequency potentiometer (ref image).
The wire on pin of potentiometer ?
Pin on potentiometer.
A B C pin
&
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 pin
Someone have a schematic ?

reference of pot on farnell:
1123704

thank you :)

PS: sorry for a quality of image :). Father Christmas would bring me a new one.
I cant see clearly but if you have one pin in the middle that is the ground,and the rest are frequency inputs,just in lawton skematics,where he uses rotary pot on the caps for range
look, if that is a 4 way switch, the A is associated with pins 1 2 3 and 4, B is associated to 5 6 7 8 and so on.

for sake of clarity in the 1 position A is connected to 1 B to 5 and C 9

regards
I don't understand how pluged potentiometre range_freq on sharky board.
I have 5 positions in a sharky board (1 2 3 4 and gnd)
and the potentiometer: A (1 2 3 4) B (5 6 7 8) C (9 10 11 12)
I chosed  A1 B5 C9 ? but how pluged ?

Potentiometer|Sharky Board
[A1] => |1| RANGE
[B5] => |2| FREQ
[C9] => |3|
 ??? 4|
 ??? 5|

or

[A] => (1)
[1] => (2)
=> (3)
[5] => (4)
[C] => (5)
[9] => (?)

or

[1] => (1)
[2] => (2)
[3] => (3)
[4] => (4)
[A] => (5)

thank you for answer
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: DanB on December 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on November 17th, 2012, 07:55 PM
Quote from sebosfato on November 10th, 2012, 04:49 AM
Quote from adys15 on November 7th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on November 6th, 2012, 02:46 PM
Hello all,

Just a last question.
How pluged a rang_frequency potentiometer (ref image).
The wire on pin of potentiometer ?
Pin on potentiometer.
A B C pin
&
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 pin
Someone have a schematic ?

reference of pot on farnell:
1123704

thank you :)

PS: sorry for a quality of image :). Father Christmas would bring me a new one.
I cant see clearly but if you have one pin in the middle that is the ground,and the rest are frequency inputs,just in lawton skematics,where he uses rotary pot on the caps for range
look, if that is a 4 way switch, the A is associated with pins 1 2 3 and 4, B is associated to 5 6 7 8 and so on.

for sake of clarity in the 1 position A is connected to 1 B to 5 and C 9

regards
I don't understand how pluged potentiometre range_freq on sharky board.
I have 5 positions in a sharky board (1 2 3 4 and gnd)
and the potentiometer: A (1 2 3 4) B (5 6 7 8) C (9 10 11 12)
I chosed  A1 B5 C9 ? but how pluged ?

Potentiometer|Sharky Board
[A1] => |1| RANGE
[B5] => |2| FREQ
[C9] => |3|
 ??? 4|
 ??? 5|

or

[A] => (1)
[1] => (2)
=> (3)
[5] => (4)
[C] => (5)
[9] => (?)

or

[1] => (1)
[2] => (2)
[3] => (3)
[4] => (4)
[A] => (5)

thank you for answer
You may have answered this by now but, it's a good time to bring this thread back to the top.

I think you are asking about the P7 connector on the board.
schematic shows 1,2,3,4,5 and you have a rotory switch to connect. The switch has 3 "polls" meaning sections that are electrically seperated but mechanically activated at the same time. Meaning when in the CCW position "section" A is connected to pin 1, "section" B is connected to pin 5, etc. When in the next detent CW "section" A is connected to pin 2, "section" B is connected to pin 6, etc. You will only use "section" A.

You need to Connect

P7-1 to rotory switch pin 1  >From U14B-4
P7-2 to rotory switch pin 2  >From U14C-6
P7-3 to rotory switch pin 3  >From U14D-8
P7-4 to rotory switch pin 4  >From U14E-10
And
P7-5 to rotory switch pin A  >Output to U15-1
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jean-Alexandre on January 1st, 2013, 09:22 AM
Quote from DanB on December 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on November 17th, 2012, 07:55 PM
Quote from sebosfato on November 10th, 2012, 04:49 AM
Quote from adys15 on November 7th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Quote from Jean-Alexandre on November 6th, 2012, 02:46 PM
Hello all,

Just a last question.
How pluged a rang_frequency potentiometer (ref image).
The wire on pin of potentiometer ?
Pin on potentiometer.
A B C pin
&
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 pin
Someone have a schematic ?

reference of pot on farnell:
1123704

thank you :)

PS: sorry for a quality of image :). Father Christmas would bring me a new one.
I cant see clearly but if you have one pin in the middle that is the ground,and the rest are frequency inputs,just in lawton skematics,where he uses rotary pot on the caps for range
look, if that is a 4 way switch, the A is associated with pins 1 2 3 and 4, B is associated to 5 6 7 8 and so on.

for sake of clarity in the 1 position A is connected to 1 B to 5 and C 9

regards
I don't understand how pluged potentiometre range_freq on sharky board.
I have 5 positions in a sharky board (1 2 3 4 and gnd)
and the potentiometer: A (1 2 3 4) B (5 6 7 8) C (9 10 11 12)
I chosed  A1 B5 C9 ? but how pluged ?

Potentiometer|Sharky Board
[A1] => |1| RANGE
[B5] => |2| FREQ
[C9] => |3|
 ??? 4|
 ??? 5|

or

[A] => (1)
[1] => (2)
=> (3)
[5] => (4)
[C] => (5)
[9] => (?)

or

[1] => (1)
[2] => (2)
[3] => (3)
[4] => (4)
[A] => (5)

thank you for answer
You may have answered this by now but, it's a good time to bring this thread back to the top.

I think you are asking about the P7 connector on the board.
schematic shows 1,2,3,4,5 and you have a rotory switch to connect. The switch has 3 "polls" meaning sections that are electrically seperated but mechanically activated at the same time. Meaning when in the CCW position "section" A is connected to pin 1, "section" B is connected to pin 5, etc. When in the next detent CW "section" A is connected to pin 2, "section" B is connected to pin 6, etc. You will only use "section" A.

You need to Connect

P7-1 to rotory switch pin 1  >From U14B-4
P7-2 to rotory switch pin 2  >From U14C-6
P7-3 to rotory switch pin 3  >From U14D-8
P7-4 to rotory switch pin 4  >From U14E-10
And
P7-5 to rotory switch pin A  >Output to U15-1
Thank you so much DanB.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: enrev on January 8th, 2013, 12:26 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 27th, 2012, 11:39 PM
Thanks Russ! I should have released all this info sooner, but like you said in your video today, sometimes we do stuff that we later regret. I had planned on releasing this months ago but I didn't want my guy Spencer to be mad at me about it cuz we worked on a prototype version of this together March of last year. Before we purchased the photo's from Don back last year, we had already figured out all the IC's used, all we needed were the correct resistor & capacitor values in the circuit. I will probably continue to sell the bare VIC Circuit boards with no components on my site for around $50 each, which that isn't a bad price at all.

Well if theres anything I can help ya with just let me know on here or drop me an email at tonywoodside@gmail.com
Hi Tony,
Did you finally decide to sell just the bare PCM?

Jul.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
Post by: Gunther Rattay on January 8th, 2013, 02:03 PM
Quote from enrev on January 8th, 2013, 12:26 AM
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 27th, 2012, 11:39 PM
Thanks Russ! I should have released all this info sooner, but like you said in your video today, sometimes we do stuff that we later regret. I had planned on releasing this months ago but I didn't want my guy Spencer to be mad at me about it cuz we worked on a prototype version of this together March of last year. Before we purchased the photo's from Don back last year, we had already figured out all the IC's used, all we needed were the correct resistor & capacitor values in the circuit. I will probably continue to sell the bare VIC Circuit boards with no components on my site for around $50 each, which that isn't a bad price at all.

Well if theres anything I can help ya with just let me know on here or drop me an email at tonywoodside@gmail.com
Hi Tony,
Did you finally decide to sell just the bare PCM?

Jul.
If Tony doesn´t respond look there ... they sell a pcb for less than 50 bucks :-)

http://www.source-for-innovations.com/products.htm

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Asl on March 15th, 2013, 09:51 PM
Hello,

I hope I'm posting in the right place ...

As I have said in my presentation, we also we work on our Forum on renewable energy and of course ... Meyer!

We decided not to start using immediately drawings of the patent but rather to understand what might be going on in that sacred cell.
Seriously, now we design a card that will observe the reactions of the cell (we're not even gas production) :

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/SAlain/Meyer/Gnralrecherchersonance_zps0bbe9841.gif)

It will scan automatic frequency: every 16 trains, frequency is incremented. Upon a resonance or an increase amplitude across the cell is detected, we stop incrementing frequency.
Free us then manually change the frequency and / or make all necessary surveys.

@ + +
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sirgoose on June 23rd, 2013, 07:19 PM
Well I can tell you right now that by that schematic it's no wonder you don't get gas production. I very first thing I noticed is that by adding that voltage divider in the VIC circuit you destroyed all hopes of getting gas production. The Vic circuit the diode, two inductors and water capacitor will only work if it becomes resonant. Which creates a conditon that allows current to go to almost zero and lets voltage which is at a very high voltage now perform work. So taking that into account even if you have the resonant frequency of the cell, nothing will happen if current can't be limited. The VIC circuit will only work as is. Resistors waste too much energy, thus draw too much current for the voltage to take over and perform the work. The only way to get the reference signal from the Vic circuit is through the pickup coil.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on July 10th, 2013, 10:34 AM
hi

PLease watch this new video, I wish all videos could get posted with out clips or edite, this one is different and does shed new light in several areas, on vic http://youtu.be/OXctY1K4wko

dan
www.securesupplies.biz
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on July 22nd, 2013, 08:12 PM

HI GUys I was speaking with a builder mr Kevin West, he tipped me onto this video from  tortuga0303
 I think it is golden

please check the concept with vic  , measure amp and current flow

 http://youtu.be/kQdcwDCBoNY

you may want to consider the other video  also

https://www.youtube.com/user/tortuga0303/videos

Dan
www.securesupplies.biz
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on August 11th, 2013, 09:16 AM

Hi

Kevin West send me this a while back though you should think about this alittle in this thread.

Kevin is a dedicated guy , and like all of us abit crazy too, but he may have something

as follows , wer to you kevin and others

 Right now I'm trying to tune the primary and secondary to resonate at the same freq. I hope to post a video of it later this week. Here is the video I'm currently trying to reproduce. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdcwDCBoNY

dan
www.securesupplies.biz
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Matt Watts on August 12th, 2013, 03:59 AM
Quote from Kevin West on August 11th, 2013, 09:16 AM
Right now I'm trying to tune the primary and secondary to resonate at the same freq. I hope to post a video of it later this week. Here is the video I'm currently trying to reproduce. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdcwDCBoNY
Seems pretty simple huh.  Current from nowhere lit the bulb connected to the secondary side of the take-apart transformer.  And I do mean nowhere since the bulb on the primary side did not light.  Neat parlor trick.  Let me explain how that is done.  The filaments in the two bulbs are not matched.  The bulb on the primary side requires more current to illuminate it, so "when in resonance", the same current that is lighting the bulb on the secondary side is also passing through the bulb on the primary side, only it doesn't light it.  Only when "out of resonance" does the bulb on the primary side get hit with enough current to illuminate it.

Sorry guys, you do not get something for nothing.

Thanks for playing.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on September 24th, 2013, 11:37 AM
I found this thread by accident I would like to hear comments on the theory could the vic operate in that way

========================
 Sum of 3 phase current is ZERO « on: May 27, 2013, 06:34:12 am » the other day i was doing amp readings on a 3 phase motor at work. I noticed that each leg had 20.9 amps more or less, but when i clamped the probe around all 3 conductors at the same time, i noticed the amperage was zero. maybe this was the secret to high voltage and very low amps ! NOTICE that in steve meyers canadian patent for a three phase circuit for 9 cells, there are three sections to the circuit, in his hydroxy generating station circuit. is the end result the cancellation of one phase by the other two? when stan meyer said to look at the snowflakes , was he referring to the pattern? is there three phase symmetry there? and does thos correspond to the phase angle of the hydrogen bond? wondering if that square circuit board on the end of all those VIC cards, that nobody seems to know about, is the key to a three phase sequencing of the signals, to cancel out the currents in the combined water bath cell array? Logged Online Hidden Administrator Hero member **** Posts: 2918 water structure and science Re: Sum of 3 phase current is ZERO « Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 12:15:55 pm » interesting question... Logged Online Hidden Global Moderator Hero member **** Posts: 1682 Re: Sum of 3 phase current is ZERO « Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 16:40:12 pm » well If you turn on a lamp and clamp the probe on the two wires feeding it, of course its going to read zero too. The clamp meter measures the magnetic field related to the current flowing on the wire... if you get current in one direction its able to measure it... but its not able to do it if you get one current canceling the other... Logged Offline Hidden Member ** Posts: 246 Re: Sum of 3 phase current is ZERO « Reply #3 on: May 30, 2013, 04:07:09 am » Hey Ali, do you have a link to Steve Myeres Canadian patent? Logged Offline Hidden Member ** Posts: 246 Re: Sum of 3 phase current is ZERO « Reply #4 on: May 31, 2013, 03:39:48 am » Quote from: Hidden on May 27, 2013, 06:34:12 am the other day i was doing amp readings on a 3 phase motor at work. I noticed that each leg had 20.9 amps more or less, but when i clamped the probe around all 3 conductors at the same time, i noticed the amperage was zero. maybe this was the secret to high voltage and very low amps ! NOTICE that in steve meyers canadian patent for a three phase circuit for 9 cells, there are three sections to the circuit, in his hydroxy generating station circuit. is the end result the cancellation of one phase by the other two? when stan meyer said to look at the snowflakes , was he referring to the pattern? is there three phase symmetry there? and does thos correspond to the phase angle of the hydrogen bond? wondering if that square circuit board on the end of all those VIC cards, that nobody seems to know about, is the key to a three phase sequencing of the signals, to cancel out the currents in the combined water bath cell array? Give us those referance's will ya? to Steve's Canadian patent and that square circuit nobody knows about. The snowflake question " why is snow white" I sent James this: "Snow is a whole bunch of individual ice crystals arranged together. When a light photon enters a layer of snow, it goes through an ice crystal on the top, which changes its direction slightly and sends it on to a new ice crystal, which does the same thing. Basically, all the crystals bounce the light all around so that it comes right back out of the snow pile. It does the same thing to all the different light frequencies, so all colors of light are bounced back out. The "color" of all the frequencies in the visible spectrum combined in equal measure is white, so this is the color we see in snow, while it's not the color we see in the individual ice crystals that form snow." From this link: http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/atmospheric/question524.htm James tried to describe the paragraph and Steve eventually said ... that was a frequency and not the answer he was looking for so I searched more and found this... well something similar to this but its the same answer: http://harijan.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/why-is-snow-white/ Once I seen the answer also was because air I ended my search on that quest. I would bet if there is a circuit on the VIC card nobody knows what it is .. I bet its an impedance circuit as in Steve's patent.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on September 24th, 2013, 11:56 AM
The only thing I'd like to add is that when you clamp all 3 wires at the same time on a healthy 3-phase motor, where the currents are symmetric and equal in size, then you will always end up getting 0 amp as a result of that.
There's no secret involved in that, OTOH it tells you that the motor is indeed healthy and performing just as it shold.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on September 25th, 2013, 10:03 PM
Quote from Lynx on September 24th, 2013, 11:56 AM
The only thing I'd like to add is that when you clamp all 3 wires at the same time on a healthy 3-phase motor, where the currents are symmetric and equal in size, then you will always end up getting 0 amp as a result of that.
There's no secret involved in that, OTOH it tells you that the motor is indeed healthy and performing just as it shold.
BUt does this cancel amps and let voltage go to infinity?


Tht is the vital knowledge is that the key and how to we fine tune what we all have done with that goal in mind

daniel
www.securesupplies.biz
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on September 25th, 2013, 11:36 PM
Quote from securesupplies on September 25th, 2013, 10:03 PM
Quote from Lynx on September 24th, 2013, 11:56 AM
The only thing I'd like to add is that when you clamp all 3 wires at the same time on a healthy 3-phase motor, where the currents are symmetric and equal in size, then you will always end up getting 0 amp as a result of that.
There's no secret involved in that, OTOH it tells you that the motor is indeed healthy and performing just as it shold.
BUt does this cancel amps and let voltage go to infinity?


Tht is the vital knowledge is that the key and how to we fine tune what we all have done with that goal in mind

daniel
www.securesupplies.biz
No no, if you measure the individual phase currents to the motor one by one you will get the motor's apparent current for the load at hand.
If the motor is indeed healthy the currents will also be equal in both size and direction.
This in turn means that the sum of all the currents is zero, which is just as it should on any healthy symmetric 3-phase load.

A tiny tutorial:

(http://i.stack.imgur.com/3PQJx.gif)

In this example the apparent (or active or reactive, same principle) current is 30 amps.
Measuring the individual phase currents will give you 30 amps for each of the phases but if you clamp them all together and measure you will end up with zero amps as the currents sort of "cancels eachother out" if you get what I mean.
This because the currents are symmetrical (they are all 120 degrees phase shifted in relation to eachother) and equal in size (30 amps).
Any other scenario, where either the currents aren't equal in size or they aren't 120 degrees phase shifted from eachother then you would start to see some amps on the clamp meter, which of course would tell you that the motor is not as healthy as it should be.

HTH (http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s566/4lynx4/Fun/smile.png)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on September 26th, 2013, 06:29 AM
Quote from Lynx on September 25th, 2013, 11:36 PM
Quote from securesupplies on September 25th, 2013, 10:03 PM
Quote from Lynx on September 24th, 2013, 11:56 AM
The only thing I'd like to add is that when you clamp all 3 wires at the same time on a healthy 3-phase motor, where the currents are symmetric and equal in size, then you will always end up getting 0 amp as a result of that.
There's no secret involved in that, OTOH it tells you that the motor is indeed healthy and performing just as it shold.
BUt does this cancel amps and let voltage go to infinity?


Tht is the vital knowledge is that the key and how to we fine tune what we all have done with that goal in mind

daniel
www.securesupplies.biz
No no, if you measure the individual phase currents to the motor one by one you will get the motor's apparent current for the load at hand.
If the motor is indeed healthy the currents will also be equal in both size and direction.
This in turn means that the sum of all the currents is zero, which is just as it should on any healthy symmetric 3-phase load.

A tiny tutorial:

(http://i.stack.imgur.com/3PQJx.gif)

In this example the apparent (or active or reactive, same principle) current is 30 amps.
Measuring the individual phase currents will give you 30 amps for each of the phases but if you clamp them all together and measure you will end up with zero amps as the currents sort of "cancels eachother out" if you get what I mean.
This because the currents are symmetrical (they are all 120 degrees phase shifted in relation to eachother) and equal in size (30 amps).
Any other scenario, where either the currents aren't equal in size or they aren't 120 degrees phase shifted from eachother then you would start to see some amps on the clamp meter, which of course would tell you that the motor is not as healthy as it should be.

HTH (http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s566/4lynx4/Fun/smile.png)
so when it is a alternator supplying stephens circuit what does it do?

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on September 26th, 2013, 06:43 AM
Quote from securesupplies on September 26th, 2013, 06:29 AM
so when it is a alternator supplying stephens circuit what does it do?
Pretty much what the VIC does, only on a larger scale which includes moving parts etc.
The 3-phase voltage is rectified so all phases contributes to driving the cell.
By changing the rotational speed of the alternator the output frequency also changes, which makes it a fairly crude way of changing the frequency IMO.
But hey, if it works it works.
If it ain't broke don't try to fix it (http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s566/4lynx4/Fun/wink.png)
Btw, this is also the way Stan used to run his first (?) WFC before developing the VIC so I guess Steve indeed knows his way around this >less advanced< version of it.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on September 27th, 2013, 02:38 AM
http://www.powerstream.com/inv.htm#3-phase

can we use any of these to create the right environment
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on September 27th, 2013, 02:51 AM
Quote from securesupplies on September 27th, 2013, 02:38 AM
http://www.powerstream.com/inv.htm#3-phase

can we use any of these to create the right environment
Who knows?
To me it's just way too much money involved just for the sake of experimenting, I'll take the more low budget route here, scavenging old TV sets for inductors, wires, cores etc.
'Tis the tinkerers way (http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s566/4lynx4/Fun/grin.gif)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Gunther Rattay on September 27th, 2013, 03:26 AM
Quote from securesupplies on September 27th, 2013, 02:38 AM
http://www.powerstream.com/inv.htm#3-phase

can we use any of these to create the right environment
No, of course the frequency must be variable.

you need to use 3 of those (I used one DCP 390/60), but they are > 1000 € each.

http://www.servowatt.de/en/produkte11.php

then you drive those three power amplifiers with a 3 phase sine generator from the shelf and there you go ...

of course a bit costy ... THAT kind of equipment is used in scientific laboratories.

not cheap, but exact and fully functional for that purpose ...

who told that prototyping´s cheap???

please donate now :-)

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on September 28th, 2013, 07:07 AM
Quote from bussi04 on September 27th, 2013, 03:26 AM
Quote from securesupplies on September 27th, 2013, 02:38 AM
http://www.powerstream.com/inv.htm#3-phase

can we use any of these to create the right environment
No, of course the frequency must be variable.

you need to use 3 of those (I used one DCP 390/60), but they are > 1000 € each.

http://www.servowatt.de/en/produkte11.php

then you drive those three power amplifiers with a 3 phase sine generator from the shelf and there you go ...

of course a bit costy ... THAT kind of equipment is used in scientific laboratories.

not cheap, but exact and fully functional for that purpose ...

who told that prototyping´s cheap???

please donate now :-)
so using this equipment de what is the most ideal config

if you mentioned it you should map it out and post it some one might actually do it
so share the idea for diagram for 3 of those units

Dan

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on October 23rd, 2013, 02:25 PM


I wanted to remind  and encourage

senior member of forum to

carefully add key knowledge to these guides they are

open source and meant to be a cheat sheet fast reference not a BOOK.

These are designed to give new people and rebuilder a fast uptake
and start at a higher level more readily


http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=394&highlight=guides


Daniel
www.securesupplies.biz    hydrogen pages




Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Heuristicobfuscation on October 23rd, 2013, 07:58 PM
Quote from securesupplies on September 25th, 2013, 10:03 PM
BUt does this cancel amps and let voltage go to infinity?
Maybe understanding how a neutral wire condition occurs may help you understand the phase cancelation of more complex  polyphase sytem....

In the image bellow you will see two separate line voltages supplying two different motors.

In the top image the common wire will have full line voltage potential if measured with volt meter.

In the bottom image we see that it’s not necessary to carry two different common lines to carry  the current back to its source so we combine them into one line.

because there are two different line potentials at different phase angles that are sharing the same  path home. in the area where they share this path["common wire"] they intersect each other relative to its angle and this causes a net cancelation at that point and registers as zero. that why its called a neutral wire. [technicaly speaking its never realy neutral there is always variations.]

They are 180 degrees out of phase. When one is cycling in the positive direction the other is cycling in the negative direction this is why they cancel.

so in the "common" wire we cause them to meet each other.

because of this phenomenon the local codes allow the neutral wire in a house to be smaller guage than the line wire because it heat loss is insignificant compared to line voltage.

Think of it  as a see saw where you have two forces one pushing and one pulling. if you were to sit in the middle of that see saw then your movement would be minimal compared to the opposite extreme.


Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on November 17th, 2013, 11:17 PM



I believe this also help to see
so I am posting here for sharing and replicating

http://youtu.be/CGIhvlesWhg



Daniel
www.securesupplies.biz
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sirgoose on November 18th, 2013, 05:38 AM
The only way economic way to build a Vic and have it work is through resonant frequencies. Each cell will have a different resonant frequency since each cell has been built different by a lot of different people. The condition that determines the resonant condition of a Vic is the two inductors and the water gap. The inductive reactance and capacitive reactance must be equal to achieve resonant condition. That condition matches impedance perfectly to so the capacitive reactance impedance equally opposes the impedance of the inductive reactance. Once this resonant condition is obtained it must be locked on to and tracked by a PLL.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on November 18th, 2013, 06:42 AM
Quote from Sirgoose on November 18th, 2013, 05:38 AM
The only way economic way to build a Vic and have it work is through resonant frequencies. Each cell will have a different resonant frequency since each cell has been built different by a lot of different people. The condition that determines the resonant condition of a Vic is the two inductors and the water gap. The inductive reactance and capacitive reactance must be equal to achieve resonant condition. That condition matches impedance perfectly to so the capacitive reactance impedance equally opposes the impedance of the inductive reactance. Once this resonant condition is obtained it must be locked on to and tracked by a PLL.
So what it comes down to is finding the correct frequency for the setup at hand, which already has it's intrinsic inductances and capacitances which the circuit is put together with.
One way to find this frequency would be to feed the circuit with a signal generator and then compare the cell voltage with the total inductance voltage using an oscilloscope for example and when you get the voltage on the cell to be equal in amplitude with the voltage of the inductances then you know what frequency to lock on to.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_reactance for further references.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sirgoose on November 18th, 2013, 11:21 AM
Quote from Lynx on November 18th, 2013, 06:42 AM
Quote from Sirgoose on November 18th, 2013, 05:38 AM
So what it comes down to is finding the correct frequency for the setup at hand, which already has it's intrinsic inductances and capacitances which the circuit is put together with.
One way to find this frequency would be to feed the circuit with a signal generator and then compare the cell voltage with the total inductance voltage using an oscilloscope for example and when you get the voltage on the cell to be equal in amplitude with the voltage of the inductances then you know what frequency to lock on to.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_reactance for further references.
Resonant frequency calculator website
http://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm

The smaller the water gap; the closer the plates of the water capacitor is the higher the capacitance will be. If you want a particular frequency you must engineer your inductance and capacitance around it.

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on November 18th, 2013, 12:05 PM
Quote from Sirgoose on November 18th, 2013, 11:21 AM
The smaller the water gap; the closer the plates of the water capacitor is the higher the capacitance will be. If you want a particular frequency you must engineer your inductance and capacitance around it.
The inductances can be measured and/or calculated fairly easily but the cell capacitance is quite complicated to measure or calculate.
The most easy way would be to actually feed the circuit with a variable frequency and as I stated earlier check for equal voltages of the cell and all the combined inductances, that's when you know that you have the correct frequency.
Once you know the frequency (and the total inductance) you can use the general LC frequency formula in reverse in order to calculate the cell capacitance, which of course would reflect the current cell properties at hand, be it what kind of water you use, temperature, the water conductance, cell dimensions, etc etc.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Sirgoose on November 18th, 2013, 02:56 PM
Yeah I see your point. The injector will act as the water capacitor and depending on how you make it will determine that part of the equation. So once injector is made if you want a particular frequency you would be required to change the induction to find the resonant frequency that way. Same principle, just in a different way. For example Stan often said he set the resonant frequency of his VIC to 5Khz. So with the injector, 5khz frequency, and one resonant choke being the constant. We would then adjust the second resonant choke to adjust the Vic so it becomes resonant at 5khz.
This is some good stuff. I appreciate your hard work and insights to bring this technology out for the people.  
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on November 19th, 2013, 12:30 AM
Quote from Sirgoose on November 18th, 2013, 02:56 PM
Stan often said he set the resonant frequency of his VIC to 5Khz
Do you have a document or a link to where Stan said that he used 5 KHz?
Thanks.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: gpssonar on November 19th, 2013, 02:52 AM
Lynx, This patent has the 5khz in it. He pulses it at 5khz because of the frequency doubling effect you get 10khz. He also gives an example of the gating frequency. He also states if you use larger capacitors than a 3 inch the frequency can be up to and above 50khz.

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on November 19th, 2013, 03:11 AM
Thanks GPS, appreciate it (http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s566/4lynx4/Fun/thumbsup.gif)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Gunther Rattay on November 19th, 2013, 12:08 PM
Quote from gpssonar on November 19th, 2013, 02:52 AM
Lynx, This patent has the 5khz in it. He pulses it at 5khz because of the frequency doubling effect you get 10khz. He also gives an example of the gating frequency. He also states if you use larger capacitors than a 3 inch the frequency can be up to and above 50khz.
that´s interesting. if it were a bare resonant effect I would expect frequency to be lower for higher capacitance of cells ...

Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on November 19th, 2013, 01:25 PM
Quote from bussi04 on November 19th, 2013, 12:08 PM
Quote from gpssonar on November 19th, 2013, 02:52 AM
Lynx, This patent has the 5khz in it. He pulses it at 5khz because of the frequency doubling effect you get 10khz. He also gives an example of the gating frequency. He also states if you use larger capacitors than a 3 inch the frequency can be up to and above 50khz.
that´s interesting. if it were a bare resonant effect I would expect frequency to be lower for higher capacitance of cells ...
From page 14:
Quote
Larger resonant cavities and higher rates of consumption of water in the conversion process require higher frequencies such as up to 50 KHz and above.
This could mean if you were to use larger cells and consume more water in the process, I.E produce a higher flow of HHO, then perhaps the frequency must be anything up to 50 KHz, which in turn means that you must adjust the inductances to meet the resonant action of the tuned LC circuit at these higher frequencies.
That also suggests that you could set a frequency, let's say 40 KHz then for arguments sake and instead of adjusting the frequency you adjust the inductances until the voltage starts increasing (step charging) over the cell.
I agree though with what you say that if you were to switch to use larger cells in your current setup, without changing the inductances, you would most probably likely have to decrease the switching frequency for the VIC in order to find resonant action again.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Matt Watts on November 19th, 2013, 05:44 PM
So larger cells actually lower the capacitance, requiring higher frequencies?  Boy, if that's true there is surely something going on we don't understand.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: gpssonar on November 19th, 2013, 06:32 PM
What everyone needs to understand is he is using the water as his load resistance. That is what he is tuning into the resistive load of the water. Which gets us back to full transfer of power from the source which is the primary voltage. In order to get full transfer of power from the primary to the load the secondary circuit has to be impedance matched to the source of power. That's where capacitance of the cell is turned into capacitance reactance and the inductor is turned into inductive reactance to get the impedance of the secondary circuit to match the source. Let say you have 60 volts after voltage drops on the primary side and it has a 75 ohm source impedance, then it needs to see a 75 ohm load impedance on the secondary side to be matched in order to get 60 volts full transfer from the source. It is a little more complex than that but is a good idea of what is going on. Once you do the number crunching on the reactances of both the inductor and capacitor you should see how it would raise the frequency instead of lower it. Just remember you are working on the water's resistance. If the primary can't transfer it's power to the secondary then everything on the primary side turns to heat and you burn up things, and that's where you get your voltage losses from on the secondary side.

Does this make since or am I wrong?
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Jeff Nading on November 19th, 2013, 06:47 PM
Quote from gpssonar on November 19th, 2013, 06:32 PM
What everyone needs to understand is he is using the water as his load resistance. That is what he is tuning into the resistive load of the water. Which gets us back to full transfer of power from the source which is the primary voltage. In order to get full transfer of power from the primary to the load the secondary circuit has to be impedance matched to the source of power. That's where capacitance of the cell is turned into capacitance reactance and the inductor is turned into inductive reactance to get the impedance of the secondary circuit to match the source. Let say you have 60 volts after voltage drops on the primary side and it has a 75 ohm source impedance, then it needs to see a 75 ohm load impedance on the secondary side to be matched in order to get 60 volts full transfer from the source. It is a little more complex than that but is a good idea of what is going on. Once you do the number crunching on the reactances of both the inductor and capacitor you should see how it would raise the frequency instead of lower it. Just remember you are working on the water's resistance. If the primary can't transfer it's power to the secondary then everything on the primary side turns to heat and you burn up things, and that's where you get your voltage losses from on the secondary side.

Does this make since or am I wrong?
Makes sense to me GPS. There's that word again "reactance" or reactive power were talking about on another thread. :cool::D:P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt-ampere_reactive
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: gpssonar on November 19th, 2013, 07:15 PM
There you go Jeff, you can do a lot with reactive power.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on November 20th, 2013, 01:55 AM
Quote from Matt Watts on November 19th, 2013, 05:44 PM
So larger cells actually lower the capacitance, requiring higher frequencies?  Boy, if that's true there is surely something going on we don't understand.
Larger cells increases in capacitance but they require higher frequencies.
That's how I see it anyway.
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on November 22nd, 2013, 07:04 AM


I am working on sourcing  HV Coil in Biflar design like stans
here what I have found so far Spec and feed back will help
Both we very interesting to look at closely  as the teslea solid stan may have more reliability than the
stainless coil.

solid state tesla coil similar to stans design
http://www.sentex.ca/~mec1995/circ/hv/ss-tesla/ss-tesla2.html

https://data.epo.org/publication-server/html-document?PN=EP0935261%20EP%200935261&iDocId=4779976

please offer feed back as the spec seam high

dan


Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Matt Watts on November 22nd, 2013, 07:16 AM
Quote from securesupplies on November 22nd, 2013, 07:04 AM
solid state tesla coil similar to stans design
http://www.sentex.ca/~mec1995/circ/hv/ss-tesla/ss-tesla2.html
Interesting circuit.
(http://www.sentex.ca/~mec1995/circ/hv/ss-tesla/ss2fig2.gif)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on November 22nd, 2013, 09:30 PM
Just posted this on laser distributer thread

we need to push on the coil design now and complete the best result

see attached

Dan
Quote from Matt Watts on November 22nd, 2013, 07:16 AM
Quote from securesupplies on November 22nd, 2013, 07:04 AM
solid state tesla coil similar to stans design
http://www.sentex.ca/~mec1995/circ/hv/ss-tesla/ss-tesla2.html
Interesting circuit.
(http://www.sentex.ca/~mec1995/circ/hv/ss-tesla/ss2fig2.gif)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: freethisone on December 3rd, 2013, 03:47 PM
you guys do alot of good work here.

i dont post much on this stuff, but i was looking through some old pdf files, and found this. perhaps it can be use  as a power supply for vic, etc..

and i toss this one in, because its look so easy to make. note the vacum tube. is that also  a magnetic pickup?
im not sure, but i like the tesla patent, hope some one can make it for some fun.:)
Title: RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: keko030 on January 26th, 2014, 03:26 PM
Quote from securesupplies on November 17th, 2013, 11:17 PM
I believe this also help to see
so I am posting here for sharing and replicating

http://youtu.be/CGIhvlesWhg



Daniel
www.securesupplies.biz
Hello, achievement make complete replica of the cell meyer? few lpm hydrogen produced? plate with which he did with tony or the sharky?
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on February 2nd, 2014, 11:14 PM
 
can we use these coils

http://www.celnav.de/hv/hv1.htm
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: brettly on February 5th, 2014, 03:02 AM
have a look at this cheap ozone plasma generator ( $22usd), it appears to have a vic coil in it,
I'm hoping to hook up a dds frequency generator to it for experiments

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-AC-220V-3g-Ozone-Generator-Ozone-Tube-DIY-3g-hr-for-WATER-Plant-Purifier/1073759574.html
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: brettly on February 5th, 2014, 03:38 AM
heres a pic
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on February 5th, 2014, 04:03 AM
thank you this is a nice post, But it should be in the Air intake ioniser thread,  I have been studying and have learn that infact we may be ioniser the ni as well as the O on th intake,  there are now membrane systems for diesel for this and electrolyzers also , so this is very interesting technology for controlling the air intake(gas processor type 2 ) meyers

Dan
 PS

that unit states  Working frequency : 1khz
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on February 5th, 2014, 04:05 AM
thank you this is a nice post, But it should be in the Air intake ioniser thread,  I have been studying and have learn that infact we may be ioniser the ni as well as the O on th intake,  there are now membrane systems for diesel for this and electrolyzers also , so this is very interesting technology for controlling the air intake(gas processor type 2 ) meyers

i should be noted telsa also had a ion maker patent. (http://)
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: brettly on February 5th, 2014, 12:21 PM
i was thinking along the lines of using the plasma ( not with ceramic plate) too experiment with splitting water droplets from humidifier, adding freq gen to change freq. The voltage may be a bit low
4kv or so. Its possible the sparkplug injector circuit creates plasma? Its a longshot I know.
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: freethisone on February 5th, 2014, 04:17 PM
i like your idea, this is some very easy stuff as soon as we get russ on board. Russ can do many experiments but has been on the side for a wile. thinking of money?

any way clear your head a vapor and a charge is ideal.
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: firepinto on February 6th, 2014, 10:09 AM
Quote from freethisone on February 5th, 2014, 04:17 PM
i like your idea, this is some very easy stuff as soon as we get russ on board. Russ can do many experiments but has been on the side for a wile. thinking of money?

any way clear your head a vapor and a charge is ideal.
Russ is very busy, but as we all know and he has stated many times, his family comes first.  All members of the forum are encouraged to do experiments, we don't have to wait for Russ to do them all. :P   
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Breakzeitgeist on February 7th, 2014, 07:33 PM
Im on it boss
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Matt Watts on February 7th, 2014, 08:12 PM
Quote from Breakzeitgeist on February 7th, 2014, 07:33 PM
Im on it boss
Me too.  Following your lead bzg.
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: brettly on February 13th, 2014, 12:56 AM
to secure supplies, on the tesla ioniser picture you posted, what is creating the high voltage oscillations? its not the spark of the brushes on the commutator?
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: brettly on February 13th, 2014, 01:00 AM
also i note on teh tesla dia. that part 'L' is a capacitor, at first glance I thought it was a plasma ceramic plate,
but I see its how he drew capacitors.
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on February 13th, 2014, 03:22 AM
This concept can be used to wrap you Wet HHO Cell , (similar to how a MRI Control Coil Works) so it hold the energised stae of proton and electrons in a higher state compunding the bond breaking- A Better water fuel cell(watercapacitor) Stan Meyers

MUST TRY  - all dieleletics will work for example bismuth

link

http://youtu.be/14ayyu9PVSI


Dan
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: brettly on February 13th, 2014, 03:44 AM
thnx for reply, just a note on water exchanging hydrogen atoms, it was mentioned in the mri videos,
i thought it fascinating,
quote " on average the molecule of water remains hydrogen-bonded to a given partner for around 6 picoseconds before it exchanges. And because they could distinguish between one hydrogen bond and another (with either another water as partner or a perchlorate anion), the team could measure how long it took to break one bond and form another. This was only about 50 femtoseconds. "

from this study
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2010/May/21051001.asp
probably not relevant but interesting
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: brettly on February 13th, 2014, 04:17 AM
that time period of 50femptoseconds, equates to a wavelength of light of 15microns, if my calcs are correct
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: cory991 on February 18th, 2014, 08:07 PM
I wanted to post a segment of Stan's Book "Birth of a New Technology" that i found to be interesting, this maybe common knowledge but i have yet to see it done via YouTube videos. I will include the pdf copy of the book that i found via Google. Also for the section in question refer to page 15 of the pdf, or 1-8 is the page number from the book.

Light-emitting diodes arranged in a Cluster-Array (see Figure 1-11) provides and emits a narrow band
of visible light energy into the voltage stimulated water bath.

Note the text in bold. From what i can gather Led's are not only in the hydrogen gas gun but also in the resonant cavity. I'm just curious if this is something that is known or hasn't been seen yet. From what ive read so far if one would add leds and a extraction circuit thats just that many more electrons that could be plucked off.

http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/Stanley_Meyers-WFC-Technical_Brief-FULL.pdf
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Lynx on February 19th, 2014, 04:37 AM
Thanks for sharing (http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s566/4lynx4/Fun/thumbsup.gif)
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: Breakzeitgeist on February 26th, 2014, 04:42 AM
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=1762.msg24034#msg24034
Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
Post by: securesupplies on May 3rd, 2014, 01:42 PM
For Clarity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-locked_loop

Free Scale has a few Chips with this built in.
On most TA cards the PLL values used are as follows:

3.3nf 330pF and 3.9k

These seem to work fine, but aren't optimal according to Freescale or my calculations. If you experience clock issues, consider upgrading them to one of the following combinations:

3.3k, 6.8nF and 680pF (critically damped) Fred's arbitrary recommendation
3.9k, 6.8nF and 680pF (compromise for common values) Closest to TA values but with tighter damping
4.7k, 4.7nF and 470pF (compromise for common values) Freescale's recommendation

Phase-locked loop
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"PLL" redirects here. For other uses, see PLL (disambiguation).
A phase-locked loop or phase lock loop (PLL) is a control system that generates an output signal whose phase is related to the phase of an input signal. While there are several differing types, it is easy to initially visualize as an electronic circuit consisting of a variable frequency oscillator and a phase detector. The oscillator generates a periodic signal. The phase detector compares the phase of that signal with the phase of the input periodic signal and adjusts the oscillator to keep the phases matched. Bringing the output signal back toward the input signal for comparison is called a feedback loop since the output is 'fed back' toward the input forming a loop.

Keeping the input and output phase in lock step also implies keeping the input and output frequencies the same. Consequently, in addition to synchronizing signals, a phase-locked loop can track an input frequency, or it can generate a frequency that is a multiple of the input frequency. These properties are used for computer clock synchronization, demodulation, and frequency synthesis, respectively.

Phase-locked loops are widely employed in radio, telecommunications, computers and other electronic applications. They can be used to demodulate a signal, recover a signal from a noisy communication channel, generate a stable frequency at multiples of an input frequency (frequency synthesis), or distribute precisely timed clock pulses in digital logic circuits such as microprocessors. Since a single integrated circuit can provide a complete phase-locked-loop building block, the technique is widely used in modern electronic devices, with output frequencies from a fraction of a hertz up to many gigahertz.

Structure and function[edit]
Phase-locked loop mechanisms may be implemented as either analog or digital circuits. Both implementations use the same basic structure. Both analog and digital PLL circuits include four basic elements:

Phase detector,
Low-pass filter,
Variable-frequency oscillator, and
feedback path (which may include a frequency divider).
Variations[edit]
There are several variations of PLLs. Some terms that are used are analog phase-locked loop (APLL) also referred to as a linear phase-locked loop (LPLL), digital phase-locked loop (DPLL), all digital phase-locked loop (ADPLL), and software phase-locked loop (SPLL).[11]

Analog or linear PLL (APLL)
Phase detector is an analog multiplier. Loop filter is active or passive. Uses a Voltage-controlled oscillator (VCO).
Digital PLL (DPLL)
An analog PLL with a digital phase detector (such as XOR, edge-trigger JK, phase frequency detector). May have digital divider in the loop.
All digital PLL (ADPLL)
Phase detector, filter and oscillator are digital. Uses a numerically controlled oscillator (NCO).
Software PLL (SPLL)
Functional blocks are implemented by software rather than specialized hardware.
Neuronal PLL (NPLL)
Phase detector, filter and oscillator are neurons or small neuronal pools. Uses a rate controlled oscillator (RCO). Used for tracking and decoding low frequency modulations (< 1 kHz), such as those occurring during mammalian-like active sensing.
Performance parameters[edit]
Type and order
Lock range: The frequency range the PLL is able to stay locked. Mainly defined by the VCO range.
Capture range: The frequency range the PLL is able to lock-in, starting from unlocked condition. This range is usually smaller than the lock range and will depend, for example, on phase detector.
Loop bandwidth: Defining the speed of the control loop.
Transient response: Like overshoot and settling time to a certain accuracy (like 50ppm).
Steady-state errors: Like remaining phase or timing error
Output spectrum purity: Like sidebands generated from a certain VCO tuning voltage ripple.
Phase-noise: Defined by noise energy in a certain frequency band (like 10 kHz offset from carrier). Highly dependent on VCO phase-noise, PLL bandwidth, etc.
General parameters: Such as power consumption, supply voltage range, output amplitude, etc.


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Title: Re: Complete VIC schematic and pcb
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