in my setup I used the 7402 which uses a 5v supply, Stan used a MC14001BCP NOR gate IC.

Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 11:35 AM

in my setup I used the 7402 which uses a 5v supply, Stan used a MC14001BCP NOR gate IC.

I see,you are using the 7402 instead of  MC14001BCP,but in stan skem i see the  MC14001BCP,it has a trace scrached,so is not used i think,whatever...
Wow that skem is the real deal,the exact schematic of the original gated pulse gen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm right?:x how do you manage to copy the exact skematic?you put a metter on it?:)) because  the pics are a bit confusing when you are trying to copy the traces

Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 03:58 PM

Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 11:35 AM

in my setup I used the 7402 which uses a 5v supply, Stan used a MC14001BCP NOR gate IC.

I see,you are using the 7402 instead of  MC14001BCP,but in stan skem i see the  MC14001BCP,it has a trace scrached,so is not used i think,whatever...
Wow that skem is the real deal,the exact schematic of the original gated pulse gen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm right?:x how do you manage to copy the exact skematic?you put a metter on it?:)) because  the pics are a bit confusing when you are trying to copy the traces

Here's a PDF file layout of the Gate Pulse Gen that I put together using Eagle CAD.
I also wanna make a note just in case people didn't know, in Stan's circuit you see VEE...VEE typically is labeled as a negative voltage source, but in Stan's case the VEE is just the 12v or 10v ignition switch voltage.

Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )

Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM

Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )

Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.

Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM

Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM

Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )

Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.

Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!

Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM

Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM

Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM

Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )

Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.

Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!

Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.

Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM

Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM

Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM

Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM

Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )

Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.

Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!

Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.

This is the 9XA Circuit. Its basically two 8XA Circuits put together so that you have a Gate Pulse and Resonant Pulse.

Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 04:10 PM

Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM

Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM

Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM

Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM

Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )

Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.

Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!

Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.

This is the 9XA Circuit. Its basically two 8XA Circuits put together so that you have a Gate Pulse and Resonant Pulse.

Tony what are the outputs connected to?

[/quote]Tony what are the outputs connected to?[/quote]Its connected just like the 8XA circuit. The "IN" comes from the variac and through a 100 Ohms 10W/25W resistor. The "OUT" goes to the SCR's gate.

Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 06:11 PM

Tony what are the outputs connected to?[/quote]Its connected just like the 8XA circuit. The "IN" comes from the variac and through a 100 Ohms 10W/25W resistor. The "OUT" goes to the SCR's gate.[/quote]Ok,:D, so you still used the scr and not a mosfet or something that would switch off and on very fast? Thanks. The problem I have is that the scr never shuts down, it's not fast enough before the next pulse.

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 1st, 2012, 06:41 PM

Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 06:11 PM

Its connected just like the 8XA circuit. The "IN" comes from the variac and through a 100 Ohms 10W/25W resistor. The "OUT" goes to the SCR's gate.

Ok,:D, so you still used the scr and not a mosfet or something that would switch off and on very fast? Thanks. The problem I have is that the scr never shuts down, it's not fast enough before the next pulse.

Hi Jeff,
The problem with a SCR is that a pulse on the gate switches it on but if the pulse terminates it does not switch of automatically!!! A SCR only switches off when the current at the anode goes below a certain value. So if you connect it to a rectified AC signal your output frequency can never go above 120Hz (in europe 100 Hz since it will be 2*60Hz or 2*50Hz). This is because the SCR will only switch off when the input at the anode passes 0.

To make the 8XA work at higher frequencies you need to replace it with a power transistor or mosfet.

Regards,
Sharky

i have a question. tony, sharky and any one else that has an answer...

on the output driver circuit, if we have a diode (D7) across the output coil. we loose all our transients that make the system work... or at least that what I'm seeing.

we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???

PS.tony nice posts lately!!! amazing! you have just boosted this work over the edge! thank you!

gos bless

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM

we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???

I reckon the diode is there across the primary coil to suppress big voltage spikes going to the TIP120 driving transistor, preventing from killing it and/or the rest of the circuit. The 220 ohm resistor across the primary coil may also play a role in that.

Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM

Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM

Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM

Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM

Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )

Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.

Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!

Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.

Thanks again Tony,now i see where my skematic was wrong,my 7404 pin 4 goes to LED yours go to OKT,,my 12 pin goes to OKT,and i have to many pins ''shorted out''you have just 2,i will try it today!Anyone has the conection pins for using a mosfet instead of a SCR?

" we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes".

thats exactly where im at. Bob Boyce made his doscivery when a regulator in an alternator blew in his boat.

Is there a simple way of driving a coil to keep the spikes and have a reliable driver?

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM

i have a question. tony, sharky and any one else that has an answer...

on the output driver circuit, if we have a diode (D7) across the output coil. we loose all our transients that make the system work... or at least that what I'm seeing.

we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???

PS.tony nice posts lately!!! amazing! you have just boosted this work over the edge! thank you!

gos bless

~Russ

Well in my opinion the diode is needed, ... if you take out D7 and connect the primary coil directly to to PWR and D8 it will function the same as it currently does when the Q6 TIP120 is conducting. However when the TIP120 is closed  on the gating, the collapse of the magnetic field on L1 will cause a back emf spike on the primary which could easily fry your TIP120, ... with D7 present there is an alternative path for the current to take, ... energy can keep circulating through the primary coil while waiting for the next time the TIP120 starts conducting again. Current will always take the path of least resistance. Remember Meyer said the system kept producing HHO for upto 90 seconds after being turned off, ... could well be because of D7 being there ...

Quote from Sharky on April 2nd, 2012, 01:10 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM

i have a question. tony, sharky and any one else that has an answer...

on the output driver circuit, if we have a diode (D7) across the output coil. we loose all our transients that make the system work... or at least that what I'm seeing.

we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???

PS.tony nice posts lately!!! amazing! you have just boosted this work over the edge! thank you!

gos bless

~Russ

Well in my opinion the diode is needed, ... if you take out D7 and connect the primary coil directly to to PWR and D8 it will function the same as it currently does when the Q6 TIP120 is conducting. However when the TIP120 is closed  on the gating, the collapse of the magnetic field on L1 will cause a back emf spike on the primary which could easily fry your TIP120, ... with D7 present there is an alternative path for the current to take, ... energy can keep circulating through the primary coil while waiting for the next time the TIP120 starts conducting again. Current will always take the path of least resistance. Remember Meyer said the system kept producing HHO for upto 90 seconds after being turned off, ... could well be because of D7 being there ...

all good reply's...

i know in normal practices you want that diode to protect the circuit ect...  but! this is not normal practice!!! we want out of the box! lol

but in this case when i place that diode across the primary i would stop seeing  those spikes. i mean yeah we want to protect the circuit. but the emf and such gets suppressed.  play with it on sim and real life... let me know what you see. i see my high voltage spikes no more... there just suppressed in the diode inductor. going round and round till there is nothing left... but i don't see that spike!

??? or am i confused?

i charged a cap with a 1:1 transformer, primary pulsed, secondary connected to a diode in the LC circuit. charged a cap up to 230Vdc... this i could do all day. but as soon as i put that diode across the primary... nota... like 8Vdc on the cap...

?????

Thanks!
~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 2nd, 2012, 02:05 AM

Quote from Sharky on April 2nd, 2012, 01:10 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM

i have a question. tony, sharky and any one else that has an answer...

on the output driver circuit, if we have a diode (D7) across the output coil. we loose all our transients that make the system work... or at least that what I'm seeing.

we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???

PS.tony nice posts lately!!! amazing! you have just boosted this work over the edge! thank you!

gos bless

~Russ

Well in my opinion the diode is needed, ... if you take out D7 and connect the primary coil directly to to PWR and D8 it will function the same as it currently does when the Q6 TIP120 is conducting. However when the TIP120 is closed  on the gating, the collapse of the magnetic field on L1 will cause a back emf spike on the primary which could easily fry your TIP120, ... with D7 present there is an alternative path for the current to take, ... energy can keep circulating through the primary coil while waiting for the next time the TIP120 starts conducting again. Current will always take the path of least resistance. Remember Meyer said the system kept producing HHO for upto 90 seconds after being turned off, ... could well be because of D7 being there ...

all good reply's...

i know in normal practices you want that diode to protect the circuit ect...  but! this is not normal practice!!! we want out of the box! lol

but in this case when i place that diode across the primary i would stop seeing  those spikes. i mean yeah we want to protect the circuit. but the emf and such gets suppressed.  play with it on sim and real life... let me know what you see. i see my high voltage spikes no more... there just suppressed in the diode inductor. going round and round till there is nothing left... but i don't see that spike!

??? or am i confused?

i charged a cap with a 1:1 transformer, primary pulsed, secondary connected to a diode in the LC circuit. charged a cap up to 230Vdc... this i could do all day. but as soon as i put that diode across the primary... nota... like 8Vdc on the cap...

?????

Thanks!
~Russ

HI All
We can add a diode accros collector and emiter of the Tip 120 to protect it . Then back EMF be on the primary coil.
andy

Quote from Sharky on April 1st, 2012, 11:25 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 1st, 2012, 06:41 PM

Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 06:11 PM

Its connected just like the 8XA circuit. The "IN" comes from the variac and through a 100 Ohms 10W/25W resistor. The "OUT" goes to the SCR's gate.

Ok,:D, so you still used the scr and not a mosfet or something that would switch off and on very fast? Thanks. The problem I have is that the scr never shuts down, it's not fast enough before the next pulse.

Hi Jeff,
The problem with a SCR is that a pulse on the gate switches it on but if the pulse terminates it does not switch of automatically!!! A SCR only switches off when the current at the anode goes below a certain value. So if you connect it to a rectified AC signal your output frequency can never go above 120Hz (in europe 100 Hz since it will be 2*60Hz or 2*50Hz). This is because the SCR will only switch off when the input at the anode passes 0.

To make the 8XA work at higher frequencies you need to replace it with a power transistor or mosfet.

Regards,
Sharky

Thanks Sharky, would you have a schematic showing a power transistor or mosfet in the circuit instead of the scr?

Quote from andy on April 2nd, 2012, 04:35 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 2nd, 2012, 02:05 AM

Quote from Sharky on April 2nd, 2012, 01:10 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM

i have a question. tony, sharky and any one else that has an answer...

on the output driver circuit, if we have a diode (D7) across the output coil. we loose all our transients that make the system work... or at least that what I'm seeing.

we want the circuit to "run free " with transients. if we place the diode across the primary. we suppress any big voltage spikes. the sim and real tests show that...

some one answer me why we want this diode???

PS.tony nice posts lately!!! amazing! you have just boosted this work over the edge! thank you!

gos bless

~Russ

Well in my opinion the diode is needed, ... if you take out D7 and connect the primary coil directly to to PWR and D8 it will function the same as it currently does when the Q6 TIP120 is conducting. However when the TIP120 is closed  on the gating, the collapse of the magnetic field on L1 will cause a back emf spike on the primary which could easily fry your TIP120, ... with D7 present there is an alternative path for the current to take, ... energy can keep circulating through the primary coil while waiting for the next time the TIP120 starts conducting again. Current will always take the path of least resistance. Remember Meyer said the system kept producing HHO for upto 90 seconds after being turned off, ... could well be because of D7 being there ...

all good reply's...

i know in normal practices you want that diode to protect the circuit ect...  but! this is not normal practice!!! we want out of the box! lol

but in this case when i place that diode across the primary i would stop seeing  those spikes. i mean yeah we want to protect the circuit. but the emf and such gets suppressed.  play with it on sim and real life... let me know what you see. i see my high voltage spikes no more... there just suppressed in the diode inductor. going round and round till there is nothing left... but i don't see that spike!

??? or am i confused?

i charged a cap with a 1:1 transformer, primary pulsed, secondary connected to a diode in the LC circuit. charged a cap up to 230Vdc... this i could do all day. but as soon as i put that diode across the primary... nota... like 8Vdc on the cap...

?????

Thanks!
~Russ

HI All
We can add a diode accros collector and emiter of the Tip 120 to protect it . Then back EMF be on the primary coil.
andy

yes we can. The emf still go to all the circuit but i want others to see if they have the same effect. and see where we go... i'm going to try the VIC with the steal core and see if its better as i was not seeing much at all on the emf... this explains why. i think...

~Russ

Has anyone posted the circuit / pcb files for this yet so we can begin testing?
I may have missed it, but didn't see it.
Good stuff - keep up the good work!

Quote from waterfreak on April 3rd, 2012, 07:58 AM

Has anyone posted the circuit / pcb files for this yet so we can begin testing?
I may have missed it, but didn't see it.
Good stuff - keep up the good work!

see first post. also tony had posted his work/boards thru out  out the thread: look it over again!! :) thanks ~Russ

Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM

Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM

Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM

Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM

Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )

Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.

Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!

Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.

Tony,sorry for late reply but i didn't have time,I want to say thank you again for the skematc i modify it from your skematic and works like a charm!I put the 4 freq outputs in my  soundcard input and saw the ''waves'' :)),now i'm working on a better pc soundcard osciloscope that buffers up to 150V:d,waiting for parts...Br.Ady

Quote from adys15 on April 5th, 2012, 12:20 AM

Quote from TonyWoodside on April 1st, 2012, 01:24 PM

Quote from adys15 on April 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM

Quote from TonyWoodside on March 31st, 2012, 05:04 PM

Quote from adys15 on March 31st, 2012, 04:35 PM

Awesome,Awesome,Awesome,you are the best Tony!!!so for all to be clear what version of the gated pulse you indicate to built?the one in your complete Vic schematic(with 3 ic's)or that final schem that you posted minutes ago?Thanks verry much!!the best guy ever(still wondering how you manage ti copy it exactly) :d )

Here's Stan's VIC Card Layout.

Wow,again,man you blow my mind when i see the acuracy of your reverse engenering,the scematic is like scanner print after Stan's,what can i say,i am speachless!

Adys15,
Here's my 8XA circuit layout.

Tony,sorry for late reply but i didn't have time,I want to say thank you again for the skematc i modify it from your skematic and works like a charm!I put the 4 freq outputs in my  soundcard input and saw the ''waves'' :)),now i'm working on a better pc soundcard osciloscope that buffers up to 150V:d,waiting for parts...Br.Ady

adys15, Could you post your complete schematic, now that you have it working.