Complete VIC schematic and pcb

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #175, on April 5th, 2012, 11:05 AM »
[/quote]adys15, Could you post your complete schematic, now that you have it working.[/quote]Is the skematic Tony posted on page 8 , 8XA_Circuit_Production.pdf,is the same like yours but the pin on 7404 is diferent,I say is working just the 9xa circuit without the power transistor and coils,i have to decide what power transistor to(order) use...and then testing,as for the osciloscope http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3901-el-cheapo-oscilloscope-using-pc-soundcard.html ,Br,Ady
RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #176, on April 5th, 2012, 11:05 AM »
[/quote]adys15, Could you post your complete schematic, now that you have it working.[/quote]Is the skematic Tony posted on page 8 , 8XA_Circuit_Production.pdf,is the same like yours but the pin on 7404 is diferent,I say is working just the 9xa circuit without the power transistor and coils,i have to decide what power transistor to(order) use...and then testing,as for the osciloscope http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3901-el-cheapo-oscilloscope-using-pc-soundcard ,Br,Ady
RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #177, on April 5th, 2012, 11:06 AM »
[/quote]adys15, Could you post your complete schematic, now that you have it working.[/quote]Is the skematic Tony posted on page 8 , 8XA_Circuit_Production.pdf,is the same like yours but the pin on 7404 is diferent,I say is working just the 9xa circuit without the power transistor and coils,i have to decide what power transistor to(order) use...and then testing,as for the osciloscope is on energeticforum.com,search pc osciloscope ,Br,Ady
RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #178, on April 5th, 2012, 11:06 AM »
[/quote]adys15, Could you post your complete schematic, now that you have it working.[/quote]Is the skematic Tony posted on page 8 , 8XA_Circuit_Production,is the same like yours but the pin on 7404 is diferent,I say is working just the 9xa circuit without the power transistor and coils,i have to decide what power transistor to(order) use...and then testing,as for the osciloscope is on energeticforum,search pc osciloscope ,Br,Ady

Dwiman89

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #179, on April 5th, 2012, 03:04 PM »
Anybody seen this? it seems to be a very simple looking circuit to do the same thing as the VIC.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l1PfmTheFM&feature=related

I doubt its legitimacy but I wanted to share and let you guys ponder on it.  

gpssonar

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #180, on April 5th, 2012, 04:44 PM »Last edited on April 5th, 2012, 05:16 PM by gpssonar
I built this a couple years back and it works as shown. I bought the pdf. files from him. Just havent had the time to try to scale it up. If you build this, It has to have a load hooked to it befor you turn it on or it will fry your transistor. Just a word of caution. Other than that it works great.

waterfreak

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #181, on April 6th, 2012, 01:52 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on April 5th, 2012, 04:44 PM
I built this a couple years back and it works as shown. I bought the pdf. files from him. Just havent had the time to try to scale it up. If you build this, It has to have a load hooked to it befor you turn it on or it will fry your transistor. Just a word of caution. Other than that it works great.
I can confirm this.
I too bought this circuit a few years back, and it does work.
You do not get a tremendous amount of gas with it, unless you crank the voltage up to around 30V. Then, you need a larger diameter wire for the bifilar coil.
Scaling it up may offer more options, but it isn't as easy as it looks...

andy

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #182, on April 7th, 2012, 04:13 AM »Last edited on April 7th, 2012, 04:47 AM by andy
Quote from waterfreak on April 6th, 2012, 01:52 PM
Quote from gpssonar on April 5th, 2012, 04:44 PM
I built this a couple years back and it works as shown. I bought the pdf. files from him. Just havent had the time to try to scale it up. If you build this, It has to have a load hooked to it befor you turn it on or it will fry your transistor. Just a word of caution. Other than that it works great.
I can confirm this.
I too bought this circuit a few years back, and it does work.
You do not get a tremendous amount of gas with it, unless you crank the voltage up to around 30V. Then, you need a larger diameter wire for the bifilar coil.
Scaling it up may offer more options, but it isn't as easy as it looks...
Hi waterfreak
Can you post schematic of this circuit for testing please?
thank andy


Quote from Webmug on March 29th, 2012, 07:44 AM
Hi,

More to think about how the chokes are designed.

"The pulse (chokes UNIPOLAR) and charge status of the water/capacitor never pass through an arbitrary ground."
So he said it! Critically damped :exclamation:

If this is true then there is no choke coil oscillation! No frequency!
When we have no frequency we have UNIPOLAR PULSE.
But we can charge them up with a pump frequency !

If we want to design a choke to comply with these specs, we must have high resistance. What he said about making use of the dielectric properties of water, there is resistance between the plates a gap size. Lookup the variable plate WFC.

On the injectors WFC there is little resistance so he build large resistance choke coils to satisfy the design rule making UNIPOLAR pulse. I guess charging the choke requires higher pump frequency to get higher kV voltages.

Also the WFC capacitance is important because we have different water types in it.
This effects the capacitance. I think he designed the chokes for a few water types but not all. Tap water is higher in capacitance then Rain water, so
the RLC is adjusted for it.

For the square bobbin VIC transformer type he makes use of the fixed gap size (resistance) in the RLC circuit. Combine this with the choke coils R.

Example:
L=1.22H, C=15.7nF, we need R=17.5kOhm to get UNIPOLAR PULSE.

I need more feedback on this, let me know what you think :exclamation:

Br,
Webmug
Hi Webmug
Does the resistance R must be in the choke coil ( resistive wire coil ? ) , or can we  connect simple resistor R in between the copper wire choke coil  and water capacitor ? To comply with these specs.
Thank for answer
andy

TonyWoodside

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #183, on April 7th, 2012, 05:41 AM »
The choke coils serve many different purposes and here are the main 3:
1) To increase voltage of secondary to higher voltages.
2) To give opposite polarity voltage on the outputs.
3) To act as a resistive element (XL) without having a voltage drop like you would have with a resistor.

Jeff Nading

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #184, on April 7th, 2012, 05:46 AM »
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 7th, 2012, 05:41 AM
The choke coils serve many different purposes and here are the main 3:
1) To increase voltage of secondary to higher voltages.
2) To give opposite polarity voltage on the outputs.
3) To act as a resistive element (XL) without having a voltage drop like you would have with a resistor.
Thanks Tony, this helps tremendously.

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #185, on April 8th, 2012, 01:24 AM »
Russ i want to ask you something.Who wrote the parts values on skematics that i found in Stan estate photos?Don or you?

TonyWoodside

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #186, on April 8th, 2012, 01:35 AM »
Quote from adys15 on April 8th, 2012, 01:24 AM
Russ i want to ask you something.Who wrote the parts values on skematics that i found in Stan estate photos?Don or you?
Don wrote in all the values

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #187, on April 8th, 2012, 02:32 AM »
Quote from TonyWoodside on April 8th, 2012, 01:35 AM
Quote from adys15 on April 8th, 2012, 01:24 AM
Russ i want to ask you something.Who wrote the parts values on skematics that i found in Stan estate photos?Don or you?
Don wrote in all the values
Thanks Tony,tomorow i will buy all the components and wanted to be sure i'm buying the corect values,i fount all comp,exept the darn 74122:( ,BTW Tony I want to build every circuit on it's own board,do you happen to have saparated circuit schematics,if not i have to start from scratch  with my own design pcb...and is verry time consuming...Br,Ady

pakakezu

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #188, on April 8th, 2012, 09:32 AM »Last edited on April 8th, 2012, 09:37 AM by pakakezu
Hello for everybody. I have a question, especially for Tony, but everyone's help is useful.  I modified my old setup after Tony`s released schematic. A picture attached. Instead of cell setup I connected a 3nF cap parallel to the secondary. The circuit scans and locks in. Now i`m using as feedback on of chokes because the feedback winded over the primary is useless. The picked up phase  never shifts from the input signal.

The issue is whit the gating. If I apply any gating signal the loop unlocks and tries to scan again, but hopeless.  I don`t really understand how this part needs to work, and why is needed to be feed back the signal from primary to inhibit pin when is gate off time.

Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #189, on April 9th, 2012, 12:06 PM »
Quote from pakakezu on April 8th, 2012, 09:32 AM
Hello for everybody. I have a question, especially for Tony, but everyone's help is useful.  I modified my old setup after Tony`s released schematic. A picture attached. Instead of cell setup I connected a 3nF cap parallel to the secondary. The circuit scans and locks in. Now i`m using as feedback on of chokes because the feedback winded over the primary is useless. The picked up phase  never shifts from the input signal.

The issue is whit the gating. If I apply any gating signal the loop unlocks and tries to scan again, but hopeless.  I don`t really understand how this part needs to work, and why is needed to be feed back the signal from primary to inhibit pin when is gate off time.
OK not sure what schematics you used but if you look at the PDF in the first post of this thread and go to page 5. There you see the gating signal comming in from A, pin 11 of the second nor (U3D) goes to the inhibit pin 5 on the 4046. Pin 3 is connected to the primary signal which is the input to the 4046 comparator together with the feedback signal of pin 14. The inhibit is only enabled when there is signal on the output pin 4 because this also goes back to pin 12 of the gating signal nor. So primairy signal needs to be connected to pin 3 and inhibit (gating) signal to pin 5.

Hope this helps ...  

pakakezu

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #190, on April 9th, 2012, 01:19 PM »
Quote from Sharky on April 9th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Quote from pakakezu on April 8th, 2012, 09:32 AM
Hello for everybody. I have a question, especially for Tony, but everyone's help is useful.  I modified my old setup after Tony`s released schematic. A picture attached. Instead of cell setup I connected a 3nF cap parallel to the secondary. The circuit scans and locks in. Now i`m using as feedback on of chokes because the feedback winded over the primary is useless. The picked up phase  never shifts from the input signal.

The issue is whit the gating. If I apply any gating signal the loop unlocks and tries to scan again, but hopeless.  I don`t really understand how this part needs to work, and why is needed to be feed back the signal from primary to inhibit pin when is gate off time.
OK not sure what schematics you used but if you look at the PDF in the first post of this thread and go to page 5. There you see the gating signal comming in from A, pin 11 of the second nor (U3D) goes to the inhibit pin 5 on the 4046. Pin 3 is connected to the primary signal which is the input to the 4046 comparator together with the feedback signal of pin 14. The inhibit is only enabled when there is signal on the output pin 4 because this also goes back to pin 12 of the gating signal nor. So primairy signal needs to be connected to pin 3 and inhibit (gating) signal to pin 5.

Hope this helps ...
Yep it is connected exactly in this way. But when its coming a pulse off time, so the output needs to be off. The IC unlocks, and when is pulse on time comes again, continues whit scanning, but the pulse one time is to short to lock in again.  So my first question can be: what is the aprox. gating frequency?  

In my opinion the optimal solution wold be to hold the last locked freq until the next pulse on time, but the working mode of PLL is not in this way.
I clearly see the the need of pulse off time. It prevents the magnetization of the core  and waits some gas to leave the "resonant cavity".

Do you managed the gating to work perfectly? Ex. 5 pulses on resonant freq. 4 pulses break, 5 pulses again on resonant freq.? I`m looking in this way, but until now I got just the lock in. (I`m really happy whit it, but not enough to step forward).
P.S. Sorry for horrible English.  

andy

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #191, on April 9th, 2012, 11:35 PM »
Quote from TonyWoodside on March 29th, 2012, 02:27 PM
Quote from adys15 on March 29th, 2012, 11:37 AM
Sharky.can i use 74LS123 IC for gated pulse gen, i cant find 74LS122 .Btw in the gated pulse gen original pcb there are 7IC's not 5 like in the patents,and your skematics!!!
This is a nice little circuit I came up with that outputs a adjustable triangle signal that can be inputted to the 4046. It has amplitude, frequency, and extended frequency capabilities.

Based on my calculations, the scan-time can be extended to as low as 0.0859 Hz (11.65 sec.). R3 = 5k, R4 = 100k, C1 = 10uF
Tony
I build this circuit and it not working for me. Maybe i do some wrong.
I want ask - You test it only in simulator , or build also in reality ? Is it worked for You? I have only one IC for test maybe is bad . Must wait to buy more.
I use LM 358 - it have two op. amp inside. Very litte circuit.
Thank Tony
andy


~Russ

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #192, on April 10th, 2012, 03:11 AM »
Quote
So my first question can be: what is the aprox. gating frequency?
theoretically... it should be tuned to give you the best results... so the cap should charge to its max then gating should take over... and step charge again...  once the cap is maxed out... you want it to rest again. if you dont step charge you wont see the polarizing stage taking place correctly... this is what i'm gathering from my research. there is things that happen when you let the cap go back to a rest state. but again... this is with water... your cap really dont work the same. ???

~Russ

pakakezu

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #193, on April 10th, 2012, 03:37 AM »Last edited on April 10th, 2012, 03:37 AM by pakakezu
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 10th, 2012, 03:11 AM
... your cap really dont work the same. ???
~Russ
I`m sure it will work the same. Now i`m trying a simple LC resonance without diode. I experimented whit diode and the resonance occurs there too, but is easier to measure at a simple LC.

  But, the step charging needs to take place at resonant freq. Correct? But at the pulse off time the PLL loses the resonant freq so need to tune in again. This is extra time, and this time is random, because the pulse on can came different states of scanning level.
So my issue here is: Only my circuit has this problem (loses the resonant freq at pulse off) or its a general problem coming from design? If it is a general issue I have ideas to solve it.

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #194, on April 10th, 2012, 02:29 PM »
Can you guys tell me what kind of caps are those ?polyester,ceramic?does it mater the type?see att

securesupplies

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #195, on April 17th, 2012, 11:27 AM »
attached

Dan

pakakezu

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #196, on April 17th, 2012, 12:10 PM »
I want to suggest one more type of inductance measuring. Witch is important at any type of transformer, especially on special transformers like the VIC.
That value is the parasite inductance, or inductance coupling. When the inductance of a coil is measured while the other coil is short circuited, the inductance will be lower from the original, and the drop value represents the magnetic coupling within the two coils.
Those values are almost the most important, and sadly weren't measured on the original VIC.

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #197, on April 17th, 2012, 02:09 PM »
Can you guys tell me what kind of caps are those ?polyester,ceramic?does it mater the type?see att

~Russ

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #198, on April 17th, 2012, 09:22 PM »
Quote from pakakezu on April 17th, 2012, 12:10 PM
I want to suggest one more type of inductance measuring. Witch is important at any type of transformer, especially on special transformers like the VIC.
That value is the parasite inductance, or inductance coupling. When the inductance of a coil is measured while the other coil is short circuited, the inductance will be lower from the original, and the drop value represents the magnetic coupling within the two coils.
Those values are almost the most important, and sadly weren't measured on the original VIC.
yes, we have those measurement on the 5 coil VIC???

see the tab in the bottom, stated "on core,closed "

thanks, ~Russ

PS. I will also do the same for the measurements i take.  

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #199, on April 18th, 2012, 07:18 PM »
common guys help me with those caps,nobody knows?