Complete VIC schematic and pcb

Jeff Nading

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #50, on February 10th, 2012, 06:55 AM »
Quote from sebosfato on February 10th, 2012, 01:14 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.
hello
I simplified the scanning circuit by wiring 555 timer only pin 4 and 8 to 5v vcc , pin 2 and 6 together with a 2,2uf capacitor to ground and pin 3 connected to 2and 6 thru a 100k resistor,(pin 7remain non connected) the same pin 3 connected to the opamp thru a 100k resistor. The feedback capacitor on the opamp is 1uf bipolar... this gives me 3hz ramp wave... i used also a potentiometer to set the ref voltage at the other input of the opamp... good luck

tip: use a simulator

BR
Any results from your modified circuit?

Mechanic

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #51, on February 10th, 2012, 11:36 AM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on February 10th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Quote from sebosfato on February 10th, 2012, 01:14 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.
hello
I simplified the scanning circuit by wiring 555 timer only pin 4 and 8 to 5v vcc , pin 2 and 6 together with a 2,2uf capacitor to ground and pin 3 connected to 2and 6 thru a 100k resistor,(pin 7remain non connected) the same pin 3 connected to the opamp thru a 100k resistor. The feedback capacitor on the opamp is 1uf bipolar... this gives me 3hz ramp wave... i used also a potentiometer to set the ref voltage at the other input of the opamp... good luck

tip: use a simulator

BR
Any results from your modified circuit?
Hi ALL,
Again i've got some dum thing to add, after speaking to a electrichian... You guys might know this but according to him when working with high current and needto drop amps and increase volts you should wind your coil long in length, wires not overlapping each other and using thin wire...
For high amps low volts you should use short windings in length, on top of each other in the length and the wire should be thick...

Well i'm still trying to test this but don't have high volts or amp equipment to realy perform such a test...
Can someone maby confirm this....?
Well, there goes...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.

Jeff Nading

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #52, on February 10th, 2012, 03:41 PM »
Quote from Mechanic on February 10th, 2012, 11:36 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on February 10th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Quote from sebosfato on February 10th, 2012, 01:14 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.
hello
I simplified the scanning circuit by wiring 555 timer only pin 4 and 8 to 5v vcc , pin 2 and 6 together with a 2,2uf capacitor to ground and pin 3 connected to 2and 6 thru a 100k resistor,(pin 7remain non connected) the same pin 3 connected to the opamp thru a 100k resistor. The feedback capacitor on the opamp is 1uf bipolar... this gives me 3hz ramp wave... i used also a potentiometer to set the ref voltage at the other input of the opamp... good luck

tip: use a simulator

BR
Any results from your modified circuit?
Hi ALL,
Again i've got some dum thing to add, after speaking to a electrichian... You guys might know this but according to him when working with high current and needto drop amps and increase volts you should wind your coil long in length, wires not overlapping each other and using thin wire...
For high amps low volts you should use short windings in length, on top of each other in the length and the wire should be thick...

Well i'm still trying to test this but don't have high volts or amp equipment to realy perform such a test...
Can someone maby confirm this....?
Well, there goes...

Boere groete,
Mechanic.
Yes Mechanic, this is true in most cases, there are exceptions. But to prove your statement you only have to look at a step up transformer [ fly back transformer] and a mig welder. There are formulas and equations for this and also a measurement of hysteresis enters in to it,  permeability of the core material and other items as well, here's a link to help understand it better,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_core :D

sebosfato

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #53, on February 11th, 2012, 05:38 AM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on February 10th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Quote from sebosfato on February 10th, 2012, 01:14 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.
hello
I simplified the scanning circuit by wiring 555 timer only pin 4 and 8 to 5v vcc , pin 2 and 6 together with a 2,2uf capacitor to ground and pin 3 connected to 2and 6 thru a 100k resistor,(pin 7remain non connected) the same pin 3 connected to the opamp thru a 100k resistor. The feedback capacitor on the opamp is 1uf bipolar... this gives me 3hz ramp wave... i used also a potentiometer to set the ref voltage at the other input of the opamp... good luck

tip: use a simulator

BR
Any results from your modified circuit?
It ensures the pll keep searching for resonance.

~Russ

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #54, on February 11th, 2012, 11:23 AM »Last edited on February 11th, 2012, 11:26 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
I talked to Don on the phone. He said that the resonant scanning circuit would lock in on the third harmonic. So even without the cell it would lock in to the third harmonic when searching for the Resonant frequency. so basically the coils themselves in the VIC has enough capacitance to create the LRC resonant circuit needed. For the phase lock loop to work.  So just some interesting information. so even without the cell it would still lock into residence. When he added the cell he said it would change a little.

The third harmonic. So if it's resonating at 1 Hz then you'd see a harmonic at 2 Hz and you also see a Hamonic at 4 Hz. It would lock in to the 4 Hz. I guess it's because it was a higher voltage spike at that frequency.
   Food for thought

~Russ

Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #55, on February 11th, 2012, 12:33 PM »
Updated the schematics, did all on the breadboard now. Also added the voltage amplitude control in a more simplified version, .... the 2n3055 gets pretty hot while not drawing that much current, maybe blocking the BEMF from the collapse of the primary coil field? Also changed the Cell Driver circuit which now seems to work just fine. The scanning frequency generated by the resonant scanning circuit seems allright but the 4046 is not locking on, the signal from the resonant scanning circuit gets inputted to the 4046 but the vco does not seem to change it frequency. More testing and measurements are needed ....

~Russ

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #56, on February 14th, 2012, 01:04 AM »
Quote from Sharky on February 11th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Updated the schematics, did all on the breadboard now. Also added the voltage amplitude control in a more simplified version, .... the 2n3055 gets pretty hot while not drawing that much current, maybe blocking the BEMF from the collapse of the primary coil field? Also changed the Cell Driver circuit which now seems to work just fine. The scanning frequency generated by the resonant scanning circuit seems allright but the 4046 is not locking on, the signal from the resonant scanning circuit gets inputted to the 4046 but the vco does not seem to change it frequency. More testing and measurements are needed ....
thanks for the update sharky! hope to have a cell to send you in some weeks... good stuff.

keep it up! ~Russ

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #57, on February 19th, 2012, 08:43 AM »Last edited on February 19th, 2012, 08:44 AM by adys15
Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% :))
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
Here is the circuit and the program(cright click ouside of skeme select style /curent flow for a better sim)
PS:sorry for the switches i have to improvize because the program doesn't have thouse kind of multipoint SW's..see attachement
Sorry but i cand post the program ..is to big:D
down here :http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/181698201/circuit+wizard?tab=summary


AND I CANNOT ATTACH ANYTHYNG:''Please correct the following errors before continuing:

    The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type.

WTF?

Jeff Nading

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #58, on February 19th, 2012, 12:59 PM »
Quote from adys15 on February 19th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% :))
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
Here is the circuit and the program(cright click ouside of skeme select style /curent flow for a better sim)
PS:sorry for the switches i have to improvize because the program doesn't have thouse kind of multipoint SW's..see attachement
Sorry but i cand post the program ..is to big:D
down here :http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/181698201/circuit+wizard?tab=summary


AND I CANNOT ATTACH ANYTHYNG:''Please correct the following errors before continuing:

    The type of file that you attached is not allowed. Please remove the attachment or choose a different type.

WTF?
Put it in a zipped folder then you should be able to upload the files or whatever.

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #59, on February 19th, 2012, 01:24 PM »Last edited on February 19th, 2012, 03:53 PM by adys15
attachement...thanks jeff..i tried .rar but not worked...but zip worked thanks

Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #60, on February 20th, 2012, 12:36 AM »
Quote from adys15 on February 19th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Man,this thread started good but now looks like is dead...whatever...
I built SM frq.gen.in circuit wizard based on sharky's VIC sckems...it works but not quIte good ..:
I dont have 50% square waves looks like 70%-30% :))
And if i move the 100k pot..nothing happens
I buily it beter? or not give it a tought
adys, please consider that all people on this forum are doing this on their sparetime, please refer from pushing people to work harder or complaints that things are going to slow. If you have something positive to add to the discussion you are very welcome, otherwise better refer from posting.

On to your question, .... the frequency generator works together with the gated pulse generator. The 100k pot in the first is for changing the frequency of the gating, the 100k pot in the second for changing the duty cycle of the gating. Build the circuits on a breadboard and do measurements to understand its workings. I do not know circuit wizard so i can not help you out on that one.


adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #61, on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM »


adys, please consider that all people on this forum are doing this on their sparetime, please refer from pushing people to work harder or complaints that things are going to slow. If you have something positive to add to the discussion you are very welcome, otherwise better refer from posting.



I know you guys are working in youre spare time,i work in the spare time..if i said that the thread is dead i did not mean to offend no one by saying that they are not working and gave up or they are slow,but just to post even a little achevement or experiment if it is...whateever...


''On to your question, .... the frequency generator works together with the gated pulse generator. The 100k pot in the first is for changing the frequency of the gating, the 100k pot in the second for changing the duty cycle of the gating. Build the circuits on a breadboard and do measurements to understand its workings. I do not know circuit wizard so i can not help you out on that one.''

I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
And for the circuit wiz.:is verry verry easy to work with..it is installing quickly,is simple,it has all the parts you need,i think is beter than multisim because it has that feauture of showing curent flow/voltage colours,arows,cap charging..etc
and in multisim you click run sim and nothing shows..conect a wire to pwr surce not let you.verry complex program but usseles(my opinion dont jump on me:)) )
Sorry for long talk...and sorry if I offended anyone...don't mean..Cheers!

Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #62, on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM »
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #63, on February 20th, 2012, 04:41 AM »
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!

thanks for the reply sharky..i understand now, freq gen creates the base freq.(the carier wave)and then the gate andjust the dutty cycle,thats what i say in the first post,just a little diffrent(undestand,i am a novice in electronics,i know only the basics...)thanks again


~Russ

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #64, on February 22nd, 2012, 01:30 AM »
sharky, here is my measurements of VIC and CAP...

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=119&pid=3303#pid3303

 let me know what you calculate for resonance.

also calculate resonance with no cap... as the coils themselves are enough to create resonance? as don has stated to me...???

thanks!! ~Russ

Mechanic

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #65, on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM »
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.

Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #66, on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM »
Quote from Mechanic on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky  

Mechanic

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #67, on February 28th, 2012, 11:02 AM »Last edited on February 28th, 2012, 02:22 PM by Mechanic
Quote from Sharky on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,:D

Sorry for asking, what is the reason for this link.... maybe suppliers, prices or the values of the components, sorry man i'm very uneducated with these things.....:angel: I'm going to try and  add my Quote's.... Please if possible have a look and reply...:huh:
[attachment=922]
Boere groete,
Mechanic.

NB: Just checked the link in more detail and seen, 2N2222 & 2N3906G in link, is NOT on the schematics... Why ? Work in progress ?
NBB: On wich Schematic is the 0.01u (1Kv) cap...? Sorry buddy, i started matching up the parts with the sche... Maybe only me and my good knowledge or some
thing's fishy... SORRY....

Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #68, on March 2nd, 2012, 08:00 AM »
Quote from Mechanic on February 28th, 2012, 11:02 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 20th, 2012, 01:47 AM
I know it works together with the gate,but i thought freq gen generates the freq.and then the gate controls the off and on time of that freq.Correct me if i am wrong(if you want of course).
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,:D

Sorry for asking, what is the reason for this link.... maybe suppliers, prices or the values of the components, sorry man i'm very uneducated with these things.....:angel: I'm going to try and  add my Quote's.... Please if possible have a look and reply...:huh:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.

NB: Just checked the link in more detail and seen, 2N2222 & 2N3906G in link, is NOT on the schematics... Why ? Work in progress ?
NBB: On wich Schematic is the 0.01u (1Kv) cap...? Sorry buddy, i started matching up the parts with the sche... Maybe only me and my good knowledge or some
thing's fishy... SORRY....
Hi Mechanic,
The 2N2222 & 2N3906 are from the original cell driver circuit, in the project it is still available as Cell Driver Original.sch. The new version does not use those transistors. The 0.01u is in the schematic placed as 10n on pin 13 from the 4046 to ground. 0.01u=10n but i will change that to keep it the same. Do not pay to much attention to the voltage ratings of the caps, i actually have not put to much attention to it since most will not have to handle to much of a voltage. High voltage from the cell is decoupled through the primairy/secondary coils. So you can use lower voltage ratings as well.

Webmug

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #69, on March 3rd, 2012, 05:28 AM »Last edited on March 6th, 2012, 10:02 AM by Webmug
Hi,

I was wondering, looking at Russ his video about the SM VIC ,where he has unipolar voltages at the open VIC coils for the resonance cell, how it was pulsed.

Looking at the pulse signal in the Dealership Sales Manual, how Resonant Action is done, did you see the pulses he used in the figure? p60 Fig.16.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1305.msg22161.html#msg22161
SM pulsed it lets say, 0Vdc to Va dc, but when he wants resonant action he pulses 0Vdc to Vn dc. So the gating window where amplitude is higher he adjusted it to get Resonant Action. This simultaneous with the pulse frequency for the coil resonance.

The patent circuit driver does not do this, only 0V dc to Va dc. at the TIP120 transistor. Gate adjust the 0V to Va voltage pulse with?

Update:
When GATE is ON, voltage amplitude should go up to a higher pulse voltage level setting (gas pedal) gas production (step charge);
GATE OFF, amplitude is pulse resonance maintained (no step charge).
See circuit "voltage amplitude control".

Have you looked into this?

Br,
Webmug

pha3z

This Complex
« Reply #70, on March 7th, 2012, 01:48 PM »Last edited on March 7th, 2012, 01:49 PM by pha3z
I'm an electronics newb.  I hate dealing with anything more complicated than 555s and basic oscillator circuits.

I also know that Stan Meyer was a brilliant man, probably able to do far above anything I will ever be able to do myself. He even advocated KISS and thought over-engineering things was stupid, so who am I to question him?

Despite all that, I've still I've got one question:
Does matching the resonance of the circuit really have to be so complicated as to include this phase lock loop circuitry?   If I understand all this correctly, the only reason you can't pulse a water cell at a constant frequency is because gas production changes the capacitance of the water cell.  So isn't there a simpler circuit that can respond to the changed capacitance, much the same way that an oscillator times its pulses based on feedback from the tank circuit coil??

How many ameteurs can understand and implement things like Phase Lock Loop circuits?  This boggles my mind.  Unless someone can make it simple for me.

- Jim

Mechanic

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #71, on March 10th, 2012, 12:33 PM »
Quote from Sharky on March 2nd, 2012, 08:00 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 28th, 2012, 11:02 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 20th, 2012, 03:54 AM
No, the Variable Pulse Frequency generator only generates the frequency of the gating, the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit only adjusts the duty cycle of the gating. The 4046 of the Phase Lock Loop circuit is the one that generates the actual pulse frequency. The output of the Gated Pulse Frequency circuit goes to pin 5 of the 4046 which is to turn it on and off, thus applying the gating to the 4046 pulse frequency .... always willing to answer relevant questions !!!
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,:D

Sorry for asking, what is the reason for this link.... maybe suppliers, prices or the values of the components, sorry man i'm very uneducated with these things.....:angel: I'm going to try and  add my Quote's.... Please if possible have a look and reply...:huh:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.

NB: Just checked the link in more detail and seen, 2N2222 & 2N3906G in link, is NOT on the schematics... Why ? Work in progress ?
NBB: On wich Schematic is the 0.01u (1Kv) cap...? Sorry buddy, i started matching up the parts with the sche... Maybe only me and my good knowledge or some
thing's fishy... SORRY....
Hi Mechanic,
The 2N2222 & 2N3906 are from the original cell driver circuit, in the project it is still available as Cell Driver Original.sch. The new version does not use those transistors. The 0.01u is in the schematic placed as 10n on pin 13 from the 4046 to ground. 0.01u=10n but i will change that to keep it the same. Do not pay to much attention to the voltage ratings of the caps, i actually have not put to much attention to it since most will not have to handle to much of a voltage. High voltage from the cell is decoupled through the primairy/secondary coils. So you can use lower voltage ratings as well.
Hi Sharky,:exclamation:

I'm almost finished building all the schematics and before i put voltage to all the connections i want to know where on the car to get 10+ & 5+ connections or do i connect 12V to everything...? Should i now build or buy a inverter to drive all the diffrent Volt... in puts of 10+ & 5+..?
One other question...., do the circuits produce the Kv to split the water or does the circuits get driven by something else that supply the Kv....? For me it seems much esier to make 50Kv and then just let the circuits guide the Kv to resinance, locking, pulsing etc.. etc..? Is this what no one knows or is sure of...?
Well i'm waiting for your reply....;)

Boere groete,
Mechanic:rolleyes:

Jeff Nading

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #72, on March 10th, 2012, 12:55 PM »
Quote from Mechanic on March 10th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 2nd, 2012, 08:00 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 28th, 2012, 11:02 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Hi Sharky,:D
As I've said, i'm now trying this build of all this circuits, you and others may know this already, the part listing in vic. net and on the schematics don't match... Sorry if i mabe miss checked or miss read it and if so tell how to read or check it the right way. Well while i'm here is there any specifics on the parts that i as a under acheiver in this field should be watching out for....
:angel:
Boere groete,
Mechanic.
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,:D

Sorry for asking, what is the reason for this link.... maybe suppliers, prices or the values of the components, sorry man i'm very uneducated with these things.....:angel: I'm going to try and  add my Quote's.... Please if possible have a look and reply...:huh:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.

NB: Just checked the link in more detail and seen, 2N2222 & 2N3906G in link, is NOT on the schematics... Why ? Work in progress ?
NBB: On wich Schematic is the 0.01u (1Kv) cap...? Sorry buddy, i started matching up the parts with the sche... Maybe only me and my good knowledge or some
thing's fishy... SORRY....
Hi Mechanic,
The 2N2222 & 2N3906 are from the original cell driver circuit, in the project it is still available as Cell Driver Original.sch. The new version does not use those transistors. The 0.01u is in the schematic placed as 10n on pin 13 from the 4046 to ground. 0.01u=10n but i will change that to keep it the same. Do not pay to much attention to the voltage ratings of the caps, i actually have not put to much attention to it since most will not have to handle to much of a voltage. High voltage from the cell is decoupled through the primairy/secondary coils. So you can use lower voltage ratings as well.
Hi Sharky,:exclamation:

I'm almost finished building all the schematics and before i put voltage to all the connections i want to know where on the car to get 10+ & 5+ connections or do i connect 12V to everything...? Should i now build or buy a inverter to drive all the diffrent Volt... in puts of 10+ & 5+..?
One other question...., do the circuits produce the Kv to split the water or does the circuits get driven by something else that supply the Kv....? For me it seems much esier to make 50Kv and then just let the circuits guide the Kv to resinance, locking, pulsing etc.. etc..? Is this what no one knows or is sure of...?
Well i'm waiting for your reply....;)

Boere groete,
Mechanic:rolleyes:
Well Mechanic, I know of no place on the vehicle to get other than 12 to 14 volts dc or high voltage for the sparkplugs, so if you need multiple dc voltages you will have to build it into the circuits, should not be to hard :D . I as of yet have not built the rustic circuit, am going to when I finish the 3d printer I built to print the vic bobbins. So, I will know more about it when I get into it, someone should be able to answer your other questions like Russ or Dirt will, email them if need be.:D

Mechanic

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #73, on March 11th, 2012, 04:50 AM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on March 10th, 2012, 12:55 PM
Quote from Mechanic on March 10th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Quote from Sharky on March 2nd, 2012, 08:00 AM
Quote from Mechanic on February 28th, 2012, 11:02 AM
Quote from Sharky on February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
You are correct that not all is set correctly. The schematics are almost done but still work in progress so errors may be still be present (just found a +5/GND connection error yesterday on one of the ic's). Currently i am still strubling with the pll and there are some issues with the net names for 5V, 10V and ground when creating the pcb. They do not propagate correctly to the pcb design, this is a kicad issue, ...or me using it incorrectly ;) and has nothing to do with the vic circuit design.

You only need to make sure that you get high voltage versions of all the ic's that are connected to 10V like the 4046 and 4001 ic's. If you can open this link you can see most of the components as they are now present in the design:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=ff4d6dd684

You best start by building all on a breadboard and verify the workings before going on to pcb production.

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,:D

Sorry for asking, what is the reason for this link.... maybe suppliers, prices or the values of the components, sorry man i'm very uneducated with these things.....:angel: I'm going to try and  add my Quote's.... Please if possible have a look and reply...:huh:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.

NB: Just checked the link in more detail and seen, 2N2222 & 2N3906G in link, is NOT on the schematics... Why ? Work in progress ?
NBB: On wich Schematic is the 0.01u (1Kv) cap...? Sorry buddy, i started matching up the parts with the sche... Maybe only me and my good knowledge or some
thing's fishy... SORRY....
Hi Mechanic,
The 2N2222 & 2N3906 are from the original cell driver circuit, in the project it is still available as Cell Driver Original.sch. The new version does not use those transistors. The 0.01u is in the schematic placed as 10n on pin 13 from the 4046 to ground. 0.01u=10n but i will change that to keep it the same. Do not pay to much attention to the voltage ratings of the caps, i actually have not put to much attention to it since most will not have to handle to much of a voltage. High voltage from the cell is decoupled through the primairy/secondary coils. So you can use lower voltage ratings as well.
Hi Sharky,:exclamation:

I'm almost finished building all the schematics and before i put voltage to all the connections i want to know where on the car to get 10+ & 5+ connections or do i connect 12V to everything...? Should i now build or buy a inverter to drive all the diffrent Volt... in puts of 10+ & 5+..?
One other question...., do the circuits produce the Kv to split the water or does the circuits get driven by something else that supply the Kv....? For me it seems much esier to make 50Kv and then just let the circuits guide the Kv to resinance, locking, pulsing etc.. etc..? Is this what no one knows or is sure of...?
Well i'm waiting for your reply....;)

Boere groete,
Mechanic:rolleyes:
Well Mechanic, I know of no place on the vehicle to get other than 12 to 14 volts dc or high voltage for the sparkplugs, so if you need multiple dc voltages you will have to build it into the circuits, should not be to hard :D . I as of yet have not built the rustic circuit, am going to when I finish the 3d printer I built to print the vic bobbins. So, I will know more about it when I get into it, someone should be able to answer your other questions like Russ or Dirt will, email them if need be.:D
Hi Uncle Jeff,:D
What is this about 3d printers and vic bobbins...?:huh: Explain some more... Where does that fit in & what's that for... also is there going to be more updates or info placed on the circuits any time soon...?:angel: I don't no to test for flaws or other tings, like where is the test points to check outputs on the diffrent circuits or is that the reason for the testpoint block on the first page of the VIC pdf file...?:huh: Also what is that drawing on the first page of the pdf file about...?:huh: Where does that sch.. fit in & connect to..?:huh:
Please.., answers, i think i'll finish tommorow (mon) and would like to do tests and help solve the circuits ridle in our quest...:cool: What info is needed...?:heart:

Boere groete,
Mechanic.:exclamation:

Jeff Nading

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #74, on March 11th, 2012, 06:49 AM »
Well the 3d printer is on this forum, @ these links, :D
http://open-source-energy.org/?fid=40
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=124  
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=122

The vic bobbins are for Stan's electronic circuits, free for download to anyone.
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=363
They were made buy haxar and firepinto, produced through Google sketchup then converted into an stl that the printer software can read then changed to gcode, at that point the printer prints out a part in plastic, makes a usable part, see my video, :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gOhH_U4Ijs&list=UU5MWkMsbXeqTSQGihR0is1Q&index=1&feature=plcp
Three of us built this machine on this forum that I know of, the two I mentioned earlier and I myself. See the photo I posted of Stan's vic bobbins in his circuit setup. To answer your other questions please email, linked here::D
http://open-source-energy.org/?action=profile;u=97
http://open-source-energy.org/?action=profile;u=955
http://open-source-energy.org/?action=profile;u=2
 Well, I hope this helps you get some answers,:D .