Complete VIC schematic and pcb

DanB

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #25, on January 30th, 2012, 02:41 PM »
I also see that between your schematic and gschem's "original fuctioning voltage intensifier circuit" schematic the 74ls122 your u12 has the timing capcator (your c12) and the clr capacitor (your c11) values swapped. I don't know which is right.

I agree with the range of the PLL, the min. frequency would only change from 200 to 300 hz. and the high end is adjusted by the pot. rv1.

Dan

~Russ

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #26, on January 30th, 2012, 11:49 PM »Last edited on January 30th, 2012, 11:51 PM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from Sharky on January 30th, 2012, 02:33 AM
Quote from DanB on January 29th, 2012, 07:41 AM
My 2 cents on the 10v regulated supply.
           If these circuits are run on 12v battery power, like an auto, the variation on the supply will vary due to temperature, charge state, regulator, RPM, other electrical loads like headlights, etc. Plus the electrical noise could cause missoperation. The timing circuits and the PLL are all sensitive to these voltage changes. Stan planned to use this in the dunebuggy so he isolated the circuits. If you are building a bench unit that runs on a regulated 12v supply connecting the 10v circuits to the 12v will be OK but, realize that the VIC transformer primary could cause you trouble if on the same supply. Another note, the frequency range of the PLL is partly based on the supply voltage, some component values like the resistor on pin 12 may need to be changed.

PDF schematic on first post.
         Be careful that all the 10v points are brought to the same voltage. I see that the feedback opamp is on the 12v supply and feeding the PLL running on 5v. Q8 output (12v) connected to U4C input running on 5v.
         There is a missing capacitor from U8B pins 5 & 6 to ground. Should not be tried directly to ground.
         I see you placed the 220 ohm resistor in series with the primary coil. This will limit the primary coil current to less that 50ma. I think that Stan and the KISS methode would not have used a TIP120 transistor and all the driver tranistors if the current was that low.

         You guys are doing a great job. I'm still tring to come up to speed with all of the new data sence I was last working on Stans' process about 5 yrs. ago.
First of all, thank you for this valuable feedback!!
- I think that you are right in your assumption that when connecting the vic to the electrical system of a car the circuits need to be on 10V instead of 12V because overall battery load will not assure a stable 12V. In the first version of the schematic there was only a 5V regulator, i also realized that 12V car battery output is not stable enough to drive the logic circuits, so a 12V voltage regulator is already present, i am not sure yet if i adapt the vic to 12V where needed or will add the 10V regulator and change the connections. Currently i am on the first path.

- I also looked into the 4046 datasheet a bit more, ... i had mixed up a 74LV4046 and CD4046, the latter is used on the vic, the first is a low voltage part, need to change that on my test board but for the schematic, other than the supply voltage, there is no difference in pin layout. That brings me to the next two things, the center frequency(fo) and min/max frequency(fmin/fmax) of the 4046. From the datasheet it shows that they are slightly voltage dependend but not that much, also since the values need to be adjusted with the potmeter. With C1=0.1u R1=0.56k-50.56k ohms and R2=100k i get the following:
fo = ± 500Hz - 10KHz (adjustable with 50K potmeter)
fmin = ± 300Hz
fmax = ± 700Hz - 18KHz (changes with the value of R1 potmeter)
All should be within the required range for the resonance frequency in the order of 1 - 10KHz.

- You are right about the missing cap in the pll lock circuit. I missed that one from the datasheet and will add a 6.8nF cap to ground on pin 5 and 6.

- I had not thought about the cell driver part in the way you state it and i think you are right about that. Why using a power transistor when current is restricted to 50mA. I will change that back to the parallel resitor. The cell driver circuit has to be changed anyway, ... it is not working as expected. One of these days i will do some calculations on it to determine its problem.

- i will check your comments about high voltage output connected to low voltage input, the CD4001 is a high voltage part but you are correct that i need to adjust the supply voltage to 12V if the input is 12V as well.

So, still a lot of testing to do and i hope you and others build and test the schematics as well on bread/prototype boards to get the errors out.

Again thank you for your help, together we will make this work the way it was supposed to!!!!
ummmmm..... don't we need 14-35v to run a 12v regulator?

I cant find what we need to run a 10v regulator... ???

but what im thinking is to have a stable 12v out from a 12v regulater... you need at least 14v? right?

that could be the reason for the 10v regulator?

also something i wanted to point out that i think we need to add is the "voltage amplitude control"


i will attach the diagram.

this would be needed to control the output of the cell... see the 2N3055 in the voltage amplitude control circuit is the one mounted on the VIC coil set card yes???

and on that 220 resister just leave it as external connection so we can play with it?  

thoughts ? good work sharky and Dan!

~Russ

PS, after you make those changes could you post the newest working folder of the VIC card. ?

haxar

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #27, on January 31st, 2012, 12:35 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 30th, 2012, 11:49 PM
also something i wanted to point out that i think we need to add is the "voltage amplitude control"


i will attach the diagram.

this would be needed to control the output of the cell... see the 2N3055 in the voltage amplitude control circuit is the one mounted on the VIC coil set card yes???
I thought about just using a variable bench power supply for variable voltage control in place of the voltage amplitude control circuit for testing.

Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #28, on January 31st, 2012, 01:14 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 30th, 2012, 11:49 PM
Quote from Sharky on January 30th, 2012, 02:33 AM
Quote from DanB on January 29th, 2012, 07:41 AM
My 2 cents on the 10v regulated supply.
           If these circuits are run on 12v battery power, like an auto, the variation on the supply will vary due to temperature, charge state, regulator, RPM, other electrical loads like headlights, etc. Plus the electrical noise could cause missoperation. The timing circuits and the PLL are all sensitive to these voltage changes. Stan planned to use this in the dunebuggy so he isolated the circuits. If you are building a bench unit that runs on a regulated 12v supply connecting the 10v circuits to the 12v will be OK but, realize that the VIC transformer primary could cause you trouble if on the same supply. Another note, the frequency range of the PLL is partly based on the supply voltage, some component values like the resistor on pin 12 may need to be changed.

PDF schematic on first post.
         Be careful that all the 10v points are brought to the same voltage. I see that the feedback opamp is on the 12v supply and feeding the PLL running on 5v. Q8 output (12v) connected to U4C input running on 5v.
         There is a missing capacitor from U8B pins 5 & 6 to ground. Should not be tried directly to ground.
         I see you placed the 220 ohm resistor in series with the primary coil. This will limit the primary coil current to less that 50ma. I think that Stan and the KISS methode would not have used a TIP120 transistor and all the driver tranistors if the current was that low.

         You guys are doing a great job. I'm still tring to come up to speed with all of the new data sence I was last working on Stans' process about 5 yrs. ago.
First of all, thank you for this valuable feedback!!
- I think that you are right in your assumption that when connecting the vic to the electrical system of a car the circuits need to be on 10V instead of 12V because overall battery load will not assure a stable 12V. In the first version of the schematic there was only a 5V regulator, i also realized that 12V car battery output is not stable enough to drive the logic circuits, so a 12V voltage regulator is already present, i am not sure yet if i adapt the vic to 12V where needed or will add the 10V regulator and change the connections. Currently i am on the first path.

- I also looked into the 4046 datasheet a bit more, ... i had mixed up a 74LV4046 and CD4046, the latter is used on the vic, the first is a low voltage part, need to change that on my test board but for the schematic, other than the supply voltage, there is no difference in pin layout. That brings me to the next two things, the center frequency(fo) and min/max frequency(fmin/fmax) of the 4046. From the datasheet it shows that they are slightly voltage dependend but not that much, also since the values need to be adjusted with the potmeter. With C1=0.1u R1=0.56k-50.56k ohms and R2=100k i get the following:
fo = ± 500Hz - 10KHz (adjustable with 50K potmeter)
fmin = ± 300Hz
fmax = ± 700Hz - 18KHz (changes with the value of R1 potmeter)
All should be within the required range for the resonance frequency in the order of 1 - 10KHz.

- You are right about the missing cap in the pll lock circuit. I missed that one from the datasheet and will add a 6.8nF cap to ground on pin 5 and 6.

- I had not thought about the cell driver part in the way you state it and i think you are right about that. Why using a power transistor when current is restricted to 50mA. I will change that back to the parallel resitor. The cell driver circuit has to be changed anyway, ... it is not working as expected. One of these days i will do some calculations on it to determine its problem.

- i will check your comments about high voltage output connected to low voltage input, the CD4001 is a high voltage part but you are correct that i need to adjust the supply voltage to 12V if the input is 12V as well.

So, still a lot of testing to do and i hope you and others build and test the schematics as well on bread/prototype boards to get the errors out.

Again thank you for your help, together we will make this work the way it was supposed to!!!!
ummmmm..... don't we need 14-35v to run a 12v regulator?

I cant find what we need to run a 10v regulator... ???

but what im thinking is to have a stable 12v out from a 12v regulater... you need at least 14v? right?

that could be the reason for the 10v regulator?

also something i wanted to point out that i think we need to add is the "voltage amplitude control"


i will attach the diagram.

this would be needed to control the output of the cell... see the 2N3055 in the voltage amplitude control circuit is the one mounted on the VIC coil set card yes???

and on that 220 resister just leave it as external connection so we can play with it?  

thoughts ? good work sharky and Dan!

~Russ

PS, after you make those changes could you post the newest working folder of the VIC card. ?
There are voltage regulators that can make a stable 12V from a 12V car battery which in general supplies between 12.2 and 12.5 volts. But since we use the LM78XX series they have a dropout voltage of 2V so yes you are right to better switch to 10V.

About the voltage amplitude control circuit, ..... at this moment i would love to have the necessity to adjust the voltage amplitude to reduce cell output :D, i had left it out because until we have a working proof of concept of a hho producing vic, coils and cell i do not think it is neccesary, on the other hand if its already there we do not have to make a new version later on to add it and for those that do not have a regulatable dc power source it may be handy as well. I will add it to the project.

~Russ

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #29, on January 31st, 2012, 01:33 AM »
Quote from Sharky on January 31st, 2012, 01:14 AM
There are voltage regulators that can make a stable 12V from a 12V car battery which in general supplies between 12.2 and 12.5 volts. But since we use the LM78XX series they have a dropout voltage of 2V so yes you are right to better switch to 10V.

About the voltage amplitude control circuit, ..... at this moment i would love to have the necessity to adjust the voltage amplitude to reduce cell output :D, i had left it out because until we have a working proof of concept of a hho producing vic, coils and cell i do not think it is neccesary, on the other hand if its already there we do not have to make a new version later on to add it and for those that do not have a regulatable dc power source it may be handy as well. I will add it to the project.
i see it a good thing as most users wont have a power supply (including me) and also a power supply and a battery do act differently... so from what i understand when using a battery there are transits that are acting in wired ways on the system.. just some thoughts.

and also i think that its not just the cell output but also apart of the tuning... sounds odd but would like to have the option to give it a try? and the flexibility...

hope to make this a one time build... sure modifications are needed. but once we breadboard it. its off to the PCB... we can even make it a "side item" that can be broke off the main board? you know what i mean? just some thoughts.

nice work guys! ~Russ

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #30, on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM »
Quote from Sharky on January 26th, 2012, 01:03 AM
Just uploaded a PDF of the complete VIC schematic from the KiCad project. I am still not sure if 10V is absolutely needed for the circuits or that we can use 12V for all the 10V points, this would save a 7810 voltage regulator and extra 10V traces along 12V and 5V traces.

Anyway, ... a lot of testing is needed to make the schematics final and produce a PCB. So if anybody can help in building the circuits on breadboard(s) and do some testing it would be very helpful and speed up the process.
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)

haxar

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #31, on January 31st, 2012, 01:12 PM »
Quote from adys15 on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)
There are many different variations of the VIC schematic out there. That is why I had to do a trace of the VIC card to stay close to the original components and traces as possible in order to easily debug the VIC circuitry.

DanB

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #32, on January 31st, 2012, 06:04 PM »
Haxar,
    When you traced the VIC card, was there a range switch connected between the PLL and the 3 4017 ICs? I ask because if there wasn't it would mean that Stan realized that there was a problem with the design. I have tried to figure how this part of the PLL circuit could work. I have gone over the spec. sheet many times and using the PC2 output as the VCO control, the frequency and phase must match between the signal and referance inputs. Because f-out feeds the primary coil and therefore comes back on the referance input, a divider between f-out and signal input can never LOCK.          What was Stan tring to do?

As for the voltage control circuit.
     Another reason to have this capacity (if not using a variable power supply) is to limit the flux desity in the VIC transformer. Untill we get a handle on the construction and core material of the VIC transformer we need to proceed slowly to insure we don't saturate the core and burn out the driver transistor or overheat the primary coil.

Dan

Gunther Rattay

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #33, on January 31st, 2012, 06:14 PM »Last edited on January 31st, 2012, 06:14 PM by bussi04
Quote from DanB on January 31st, 2012, 06:04 PM
Haxar,
    When you traced the VIC card, was there a range switch connected between the PLL and the 3 4017 ICs? I ask because if there wasn't it would mean that Stan realized that there was a problem with the design. I have tried to figure how this part of the PLL circuit could work. I have gone over the spec. sheet many times and using the PC2 output as the VCO control, the frequency and phase must match between the signal and referance inputs. Because f-out feeds the primary coil and therefore comes back on the referance input, a divider between f-out and signal input can never LOCK.          What was Stan tring to do?

As for the voltage control circuit.
     Another reason to have this capacity (if not using a variable power supply) is to limit the flux desity in the VIC transformer. Untill we get a handle on the construction and core material of the VIC transformer we need to proceed slowly to insure we don't saturate the core and burn out the driver transistor or overheat the primary coil.

Dan
If the core material is given and the minimum frequency used is  fixed then the primary windings can be calculated so that the transistor doesn´t blow.



haxar

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #34, on January 31st, 2012, 07:11 PM »
Quote from DanB on January 31st, 2012, 06:04 PM
When you traced the VIC card, was there a range switch connected between the PLL and the 3 4017 ICs? I ask because if there wasn't it would mean that Stan realized that there was a problem with the design.
The 4017 divide-by-n chips in the trace revealed they are not used to divide the VCOout signal but are used only for the Oscillation LED on the card. That concludes there is also no range switch installed on the card panel.
Quote from DanB on January 31st, 2012, 06:04 PM
I have tried to figure how this part of the PLL circuit could work. I have gone over the spec. sheet many times and using the PC2 output as the VCO control, the frequency and phase must match between the signal and referance inputs. Because f-out feeds the primary coil and therefore comes back on the referance input, a divider between f-out and signal input can never LOCK.          What was Stan tring to do?
I need to publish the updated VIC schematic (in a new thread with a changelog) which includes a modification of the primary coil phase lock loop feedback with a 22k ohm resistor. See this link: https://github.com/haxar/meyer-stanley/blob/125041bbb97e498a802975faa0354dfa29e842e2/vicschem.pdf?raw=true
Quote from DanB on January 31st, 2012, 06:04 PM
As for the voltage control circuit.
     Another reason to have this capacity (if not using a variable power supply) is to limit the flux desity in the VIC transformer. Untill we get a handle on the construction and core material of the VIC transformer we need to proceed slowly to insure we don't saturate the core and burn out the driver transistor or overheat the primary coil.
The driver transistor, which is the TIP120, I have heatsinked and will probably try multiple wirewound 220 ohm resistors in parallel and in series with the primary coil to suppress any heat generation.

jovz0597

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #35, on January 31st, 2012, 09:32 PM »
new to this forum. i hope someday i could build one of this VIC even with little knowledge with electronics i'm inclined to learn this thing. it's a futuristic approach to a energy source. joven from philippines

~Russ

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #36, on February 1st, 2012, 12:05 AM »
Quote from haxar on January 31st, 2012, 01:12 PM
Quote from adys15 on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)
There are many different variations of the VIC schematic out there. That is why I had to do a trace of the VIC card to stay close to the original components and traces as possible in order to easily debug the VIC circuitry.
its a good idea! you are right in my book,

~Russ
RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #37, on February 1st, 2012, 12:07 AM »
Quote from jovz0597 on January 31st, 2012, 09:32 PM
new to this forum. i hope someday i could build one of this VIC even with little knowledge with electronics i'm inclined to learn this thing. it's a futuristic approach to a energy source. joven from philippines
welcome! glad your here! ~Russ

Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #38, on February 1st, 2012, 12:55 AM »
Quote from haxar on January 31st, 2012, 07:11 PM
The 4017 divide-by-n chips in the trace revealed they are not used to divide the VCOout signal but are used only for the Oscillation LED on the card. That concludes there is also no range switch installed on the card panel.
I checked the vic images again also and you are right that the 4017's are not connected to a range switch. It would have been the 5 pin connector where pin 3 and 4 from the 4046 go to but in the end he did not put it in. I had put it in from figure 7 of the patent but i agree that it can be removed.

I will also look in to the 4046 again. On the breadboard i have it scanning but indeed it can not lock in. I will investigate the datasheet and vic trace again to determine where the errors are.

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #39, on February 1st, 2012, 03:00 AM »
Quote from haxar on January 31st, 2012, 01:12 PM
Quote from adys15 on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)
There are many different variations of the VIC schematic out there. That is why I had to do a trace of the VIC card to stay close to the original components and traces as possible in order to easily debug the VIC circuitry.
I agree with you haxar,titanic work you put in!Q:the notes on the sides of schematic belongs to stans?or someone else's?

Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #40, on February 1st, 2012, 03:42 AM »Last edited on February 1st, 2012, 03:53 AM by Sharky
Quote from adys15 on February 1st, 2012, 03:00 AM
Quote from haxar on January 31st, 2012, 01:12 PM
Quote from adys15 on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)
There are many different variations of the VIC schematic out there. That is why I had to do a trace of the VIC card to stay close to the original components and traces as possible in order to easily debug the VIC circuitry.
I agree with you haxar,titanic work you put in!Q:the notes on the sides of schematic belongs to stans?or someone else's?
The notes are in dutch so they are not Stans .... where do you got those?

Some interesting information on the 4046:
http://hammer.ampage.org/files/Marston%27s4046circuits.PDF
Figure 10.21 also includes the lock indicator, i do not have the resonant scanning circuit clear yet in relation to the 4046 ...

adys15

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #41, on February 1st, 2012, 07:59 AM »
Quote from Sharky on February 1st, 2012, 03:42 AM
Quote from adys15 on February 1st, 2012, 03:00 AM
Quote from haxar on January 31st, 2012, 01:12 PM
Quote from adys15 on January 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Sharky,you might have those pics,if not  i hope it will help you,there are some specifications on the schemes(voltages,parts numbers ..etc)
There are many different variations of the VIC schematic out there. That is why I had to do a trace of the VIC card to stay close to the original components and traces as possible in order to easily debug the VIC circuitry.
I agree with you haxar,titanic work you put in!Q:the notes on the sides of schematic belongs to stans?or someone else's?
The notes are in dutch so they are not Stans .... where do you got those?


Some interesting information on the 4046:
http://hammer.ampage.org/files/Marston%27s4046circuits.PDF
Figure 10.21 also includes the lock indicator, i do not have the resonant scanning circuit clear yet in relation to the 4046 ...
I don't understand the writings...sorry,but looking more carefully i think you are right:(,sorry..my bad...i only wanted to help...those i got from ISOHUNT\Water Fuel Cell, HHO Various...is a pack with lots of hho stuff

Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #42, on February 1st, 2012, 11:16 AM »Last edited on February 1st, 2012, 12:27 PM by Sharky
some simulation always helps :D , click the link below to see the simulation:

Resonant Scanning Simulation

When there is a lock at the 4046 the Resonant Scanning circuit output is being blocked by switch 4016 and thus F=0 -> vco is not being adjusted. When there is not a lock the Resonant Scanning output is being fet into the VCOin and scans. The output varies from 2.6 - 7.3 volt and is 1.5 seconds from high to low and 3 seconds from low to high.

I also updated the project file with the latest changes:
- added 7810 for 10V
- removed the 4017 ic's since they are not needed
- changed the lock indicator
- corrected the input to the 4046
- added a testpoint connector for all essential points of the schematic to take easy signal measurements when the pcb is ready
- changed the 10uF NP capacitors to two 22uF pol capacitors with the negative sides connected, the 10uF NP are hard to get (at least for me) and this way it takes less space as well, the result is the same.

~Russ

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #43, on February 2nd, 2012, 03:42 AM »Last edited on February 2nd, 2012, 03:46 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from Sharky on February 1st, 2012, 11:16 AM
some simulation always helps :D , click the link below to see the simulation:

Resonant Scanning Simulation

When there is a lock at the 4046 the Resonant Scanning circuit output is being blocked by switch 4016 and thus F=0 -> vco is not being adjusted. When there is not a lock the Resonant Scanning output is being fet into the VCOin and scans. The output varies from 2.6 - 7.3 volt and is 1.5 seconds from high to low and 3 seconds from low to high.

I also updated the project file with the latest changes:
- added 7810 for 10V
- removed the 4017 ic's since they are not needed
- changed the lock indicator
- corrected the input to the 4046
- added a testpoint connector for all essential points of the schematic to take easy signal measurements when the pcb is ready
- changed the 10uF NP capacitors to two 22uF pol capacitors with the negative sides connected, the 10uF NP are hard to get (at least for me) and this way it takes less space as well, the result is the same.
nice one! the circuit i don't think worked correctly.?.?. PS love that applet!


i will gather up the stuff needed to etch the test board.

do we know the size just yet? i know you mentioned it but are we still with that size?

I'm awaiting and ready! :)

good stuff. i love open source! its the way its suppose to be!

i told every body over and over that i cant do this by my self... and that the truth! team is the key! everyone used there expertise and we will get this done!!!

also working on some test cells and VIC stuff with Chris and Josh, there doing some good work! when we get there ill try to get you a test cell that way we all have the same stuff... cool?

~Russ


Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #44, on February 4th, 2012, 05:18 AM »
Working on the Voltage Amplitude Control i reanalized the VIC card and also the sketches of the coilpack connections. The conclusion is that the 7805 in there is not connected to the Voltage Amplitude Control as in the figure 4 of the patent, it is only connected to the feedbackcoil and the input of an extra opamp that is on the vic card but not in the patent. Most of the Figure 4 schematic seems to serve no purpose other that stabilizing and buffering.

A big question mark for me still is the 2N3055 transistor, ... why put in a 15 amp power transistor if he is talking about milliamps of power consumption? Any ideas on that? The TIP120 which is rated at 5 amps should do the trick alone, is maybe the vic first consuming a lot of current and only throtteling back when the disassociation of water is started, resonance is there and amps are reduced?

Mechanic

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #45, on February 4th, 2012, 08:51 AM »
Quote from Sharky on February 4th, 2012, 05:18 AM
Working on the Voltage Amplitude Control i reanalized the VIC card and also the sketches of the coilpack connections. The conclusion is that the 7805 in there is not connected to the Voltage Amplitude Control as in the figure 4 of the patent, it is only connected to the feedbackcoil and the input of an extra opamp that is on the vic card but not in the patent. Most of the Figure 4 schematic seems to serve no purpose other that stabilizing and buffering.

A big question mark for me still is the 2N3055 transistor, ... why put in a 15 amp power transistor if he is talking about milliamps of power consumption? Any ideas on that? The TIP120 which is rated at 5 amps should do the trick alone, is maybe the vic first consuming a lot of current and only throtteling back when the disassociation of water is started, resonance is there and amps are reduced?
Hi Sharky,

Still new here, but what your'e thinking makes sence. The proof will in time be in the pooding (testing)
Well great stuff so far... I'll soon join in the build and drive you crazy with questions (SORRY)
Great job so far!!!
Mechanic.

~Russ

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #46, on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM »Last edited on February 8th, 2012, 01:05 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ



Sharky

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #47, on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM »Last edited on February 8th, 2012, 03:28 PM by Sharky
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P

~Russ

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #48, on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM »
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.

sebosfato

RE: Complete VIC schematic and pcb (work in progress)
« Reply #49, on February 10th, 2012, 01:14 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Quote from Sharky on February 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 8th, 2012, 01:04 AM
hey there sharky, did you find time to make a list of parts we need to play with this circuit? would love to bred board it.

hope all is well! God Speed! ~Russ
Uploaded the latest version of the schematics. I still have some trouble with getting the pll working, ... the VCO part works as expected but the scanning part is not working yet. Simplified the Voltage Amplitude Control and adapted it to our needs. The cell driver does not work correctly, will first try to get the pll working without the cell driver by connecting the output of the pll directly to a charging choke. When that is working we can put in the cell driver again.

I started with the partslist but have not finished it yet, ... promise to get it out by saturday :cool:

All is well, ... still trying to get more than 24 hours out of a day but not succeeding :P
lol, ok sharky! rest and press on. relax when you need, i know it can be over whelming!! ill start to go over the circuit a bit more. the driver circuit is more geared towards being able to control amplitude with other inputs IE. gas throttle/RPM. so really we may not need it in our final design??? Thoughts? i know that's not the way it is but maybe that's the intent?  

keep up the good work sharky!!! take it easy! god speed!

~Russ

PS here is a good over view, thanks to Alex Petty for this one.
hello
I simplified the scanning circuit by wiring 555 timer only pin 4 and 8 to 5v vcc , pin 2 and 6 together with a 2,2uf capacitor to ground and pin 3 connected to 2and 6 thru a 100k resistor,(pin 7remain non connected) the same pin 3 connected to the opamp thru a 100k resistor. The feedback capacitor on the opamp is 1uf bipolar... this gives me 3hz ramp wave... i used also a potentiometer to set the ref voltage at the other input of the opamp... good luck

tip: use a simulator

BR