I'll answer these questions when I get home from work in a couple of hours. I got something else to add as well

Quote from gpssonar on December 5th, 2016, 11:59 AM

I'll answer these questions when I get home from work in a couple of hours. I got something else to add as well

like i said, take your time. thanks!

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ on December 5th, 2016, 11:22 AM

ah yes, ok, this is where the original driver circuit might help.

thanks for the info!

~Russ

No problem.  Just got some 2N3906 transistors in today so I've got everything I need to make the original vic drive circuit....Now I don't think it's necessary though. We'll see.

Quote from ~Russ on December 5th, 2016, 11:45 AM

well lets get back to "checking my understanding"

Ronnie, This is directed to you, got some more Q and A , if you see ANYTHING you disagree with please state so.
If some of this is a repeat, just answer it any way. please answer yes/no for each number. or reword it to make scene to you. 


1. The chokes are indeed amp restriction devices, using the magnetic flux, However Because the Capacitor is "variable" ( due to the gas bubbles being formed) the "bandwidth cut off" of the resonant frequency is out side the parameters needed to achieve resonance between L1,L2 and the "cap" .
But ONLY when in the "dead short" condition is there.

2. The change in capacitance/resistance will allow the resonant action to take place. its important to note that the chokes do not enter resonance until enough gas is generated to change the capacitance / bandwidth cut off to do so, this is automatic and by design.
   (this must be part of your design. parameters)
   
3. This is why we need to tune the system with dry cell's, This is how we check the resonance of the system.

4. Resonance only happens when we reach that sweet spot after we start making gas ( after the start the polarization process with our amp leakage)  and if the bandwidth cut off allows to go in to resonance.

5. Then things change when in resonance mode( The phase angle changes between current and voltage when things change in to resonance mode.)


6.  This is a Question: we can change the phase angle changes between current and voltage by having an imbalance of turns between L1 and L2???

more after this,

~Russ

PS, take your time

1:yes
2:yes
3:yes it helps
4:yes
5:yes and I got more to say about this in another post.
6:got more to say about this one as well in another post.

Does anyone know who this guy is and where to contact him he may be able to help, his videos may be helpful. https://youtu.be/Se9W6iUnujM

Quote from gpssonar on December 5th, 2016, 02:18 PM

1:yes
2:yes
3:yes it helps
4:yes
5:yes and I got more to say about this in another post.
6:got more to say about this one as well in another post.

OK, ill let you go on before i  make another post.
5. Ronnie has more
6. Ronnie has more

you continue first.

Thanks!!

~Russ 

Quote from ~Russ on December 5th, 2016, 11:45 AM

5. Then things change when in resonance mode( The phase angle changes between current and voltage when things change in to resonance mode.)

The voltage phase angle is 90 degrees opposite to current phase angle, at resonance.

Quote from haxar on December 5th, 2016, 09:01 PM

The voltage phase angle is 90 degrees opposite to current phase angle, at resonance.

Leading or lagging?

Quote from haxar on December 5th, 2016, 09:01 PM

The voltage phase angle is 90 degrees opposite to current phase angle, at resonance.

Interesting.
With strictly pulsed DC currents, or should I say voltages, this would also leave a strictly reactive circuit, with inductive reactive components acting as short circuits, capacitive reactive components acting as open circuits and as it's 90 degrees the resistive contributions could also be considered to be open circuit.
Would this be a good parameter to check out (I.E the phase shift between voltage & current in say the secondary coil) to sort of "home in on" while tuning cell frequency....?

Quote from Matt Watts on December 6th, 2016, 12:29 AM

Leading or lagging?

In the TB Stan states voltage leads by 90 degrees. So at resonance it's an inductive circuit. Successful testing will have to be done to confirm it though. 

Quote from Lynx on December 6th, 2016, 08:34 AM

Interesting.

Quote from Matt Watts on December 6th, 2016, 12:29 AM

Leading or lagging?

This is mentioned in Stan's lecture @ 15m55s:

youtube.com/watch?v=iaB5ME8kFGU&t=15m55s

"And, as the voltage will now go through this [choke] coil, 90 degrees opposite to current, and as a result: we have a way to pull apart the water molecule in an economical way." aka. resonance.

The RLC circuit must produce this condition: progress towards a voltage phase angle 90 degrees opposite to current phase angle.

I hypothesize the bandwidth cut-off frequency in the RLC circuit is your resonant frequency. The RLC tank acting as both a high-pass filter (cutting out bass) and a low-pass filter (cutting out treble), typically a band-pass filter in the audible frequency domain, from 1 Hz up to 24 kHz (the range of frequencies we can hear with ears).

I hypothesize if both high- and low-pass filters are by design and active in the RLC/VIC circuit, you'll only have one sinusoidal output, which could be your resonant frequency to achieve. The filtered energy is redirected through.

Quote from ~Russ on December 5th, 2016, 11:45 AM

1. The chokes are indeed amp restriction devices, using the magnetic flux, However Because the Capacitor is "variable" ( due to the gas bubbles being formed) the "bandwidth cut off" of the resonant frequency is out side the parameters needed to achieve resonance between L1,L2 and the "cap" .
But ONLY when in the "dead short" condition is there.

2. The change in capacitance/resistance will allow the resonant action to take place. its important to note that the chokes do not enter resonance until enough gas is generated to change the capacitance / bandwidth cut off to do so, this is automatic and by design.
   (this must be part of your design. parameters)

4. Resonance only happens when we reach that sweet spot after we start making gas ( after the start the polarization process with our amp leakage)  and if the bandwidth cut off allows to go in to resonance.

Bandwidth cut-off, hence my post above, Is [the resonant frequency], but not Of [the resonant frequency], from #1.

Quote from HMS-776 on December 6th, 2016, 10:33 AM

In the TB Stan states voltage leads by 90 degrees. So at resonance it's an inductive circuit. Successful testing will have to be done to confirm it though.

That's what I would have thought too.  In the video Dom posted above, valyonpz sweeps the spectrum with just the cell and a resistor and we see all sorts of characteristics.  If I'm not imagining things, I'm pretty sure I saw both leading and lagging.  I also saw DC offset appear.  I have a hunch this is something each one of us should try with the cells we have.

I would highly recommend using a very small (< 1 ohm) CSR (current sense resistor), or you will get data that isn't very useful.  I would also recommend repeating the tests using a voltage range between 1 and 13 volts, with and without a 1.23 volt DC bias per tube set.  Be thorough, plot this data and keep it with your cell--I have a strong feeling you will be referring back to it many times.  Also, fill your cell with the same water you will likely use if/when you ever get your VIC working.

valyonpz's videos look like he had recent success.

https://www.youtube.com/user/valyonpz/videos

Quote from Matt Watts on December 6th, 2016, 11:49 AM

That's what I would have thought too.  In the video Dom posted above, valyonpz sweeps the spectrum with just the cell and a resistor and we see all sorts of characteristics.  If I'm not imagining things, I'm pretty sure I saw both leading and lagging.  I also saw DC offset appear.  I have a hunch this is something each one of us should try with the cells we have.

I would highly recommend using a very small (< 1 ohm) CSR (current sense resistor), or you will get data that isn't very useful.  I would also recommend repeating the tests using a voltage range between 1 and 13 volts, with and without a 1.23 volt DC bias per tube set.  Be thorough, plot this data and keep it with your cell--I have a strong feeling you will be referring back to it many times.  Also, fill your cell with the same water you will likely use if/when you ever get your VIC working.

sounds like a place to start. ill make that my first step when i get everything set up.

~Russ

you know tho, This will change dramatically tho with bubbles...

Ronnie, this is your thread, what do you think about this?

~Russ

I think you guy's are doing a fine job, I don't have much time to post much right now due to an operation I'm having this Friday, Also I have court coming up the 19th and work calling me in all the time after I get home. I will keep looking in and watching doing what I can to help. I want this to be everyone's thread not just mine. What ever you guy's can do to help others is what's it's all about.

Quote from ~Russ on December 6th, 2016, 01:49 PM

sounds like a place to start. ill make that my first step when i get everything set up.

I hate to complicate things, but Valentin used a 22 ohm CSR in series with what I will assume is a 50 ohm output signal generator.  That's 72 ohms--pretty close to Stan's 78.54 Re value.  If it were me (and it will be pretty soon), I'd put a variable resistor in series with the signal generator and try to set it to 28.54 ohms.  Don't use this variable pot as a CSR.  Find a decent 0.1 ohm CSR or thereabouts and connect things up as Valentin shows, only difference is adding the pot directly on the output of the signal generator.

This may turn out to be nothing, or it could turn out to be quite important.  Use your best judgement.

Quote from ~Russ on December 6th, 2016, 01:53 PM

you know tho, This will change dramatically tho with bubbles...

I'm not sure what to think about this part.  Be best if you tap the cell before you start and hopefully no bubbles will form as you test.  If they do, try to tap them out and take a reading as quickly as possible.

Quote from Matt Watts on December 6th, 2016, 03:31 PM

I hate to complicate things, but Valentin used a 22 ohm CSR in series with what I will assume is a 50 ohm output signal generator.  That's 72 ohms--pretty close to Stan's 78.54 Re value.  If it were me (and it will be pretty soon), I'd put a variable resistor in series with the signal generator and try to set it to 28.54 ohms.  Don't use this variable pot as a CSR.  Find a decent 0.1 ohm CSR or thereabouts and connect things up as Valentin shows, only difference is adding the pot directly on the output of the signal generator.

This may turn out to be nothing, or it could turn out to be quite important.  Use your best judgement.

I'm not sure what to think about this part.  Be best if you tap the cell before you start and hopefully no bubbles will form as you test.  If they do, try to tap them out and take a reading as quickly as possible.

I'm saying that this self resonant test is only good for a wet cell...

unless you plan on doing the test dry?

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ on December 6th, 2016, 03:37 PM

I'm saying that this self resonant test is only good for a wet cell...

unless you plan on doing the test dry?

Wet for sure.  I think a dry capacitance measurement is probably enough and just a rough estimate at that.


So Russ,

I'm modifying my Bob Volk Hybrid cell and I need some hard spacers that are about 1.5mm thick and can be secured to the face of the stainless steel plates.  Can you think of anything readily available that will work?

And another dumb question that I should already have the answer to but don't:  The resonant cavities--do they allow water fill only from the top or can water come up from the bottom?  I need to decide if I should plug these re-fill holes off or not.

Ok....So I decided to breadboard Stan's original vic drive circuit....There seem to be a few problems...Is the Vee supposed to be -12V?

Has anyone got that driver circuit to work?
It's figure 5 in the WO 92/07861 'Control and driver circuits' patent.

Quote from HMS-776 on December 6th, 2016, 05:01 PM

Ok....So I decided to breadboard Stan's original vic drive circuit....There seem to be a few problems...Is the Vee supposed to be -12V?

Has anyone got that driver circuit to work?
It's figure 5 in the WO 92/07861 'Control and driver circuits' patent.

All voltages are TTL logic level 5v, apart from the primary coil that is variable 0-12v. The 4046 voltage controlled oscillator does work.

My timeless post on the fully reversed engineered original VIC schematic, based on Don's photos, is here:
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=170.msg1777#msg1777

Cool Thanks,

One thing I've always wondered....What's the purpose of the 3 transistors (2N2222 & two 2N3906's) before the TIP120?

     I know they drive the base. Do they also serve to keep the rise and fall times short?