Quote from gpssonar on November 9th, 2016, 01:32 PM

if all the coils has a piece of core in them already the inductance can not be change, unless you move the core in and out of the coil which that is not the case here. The only thing that can change the inductance of the coils is the AL value of the core material. This is why this needs to be discussed,

Ronnie, we need to think about how the inductance of the other coils effect each other as well.

also the 100% connected is good for " theatrical " in real life there are losses ect.. just pointing it out that everyone not to be so critical on this.

for a description of functionality this 100% works... Vs the gap... where the % is more like 0-100% depending on the gap

for we are talking about thinking through this thing...

 now we start talking about mutual inductance, adding inductance and opposing inductance...

can you go in to that again for us...

post the Grob pages for us... that should be helpful as well

~Russ

Common since tells me that the circle on his cores being where they are tells me what coils are 100% coupled and what coils are not. If the primary and Secondary was 100% coupled they would be a circle drew around both gaps of the cores also. In other words there is nothing you can do to the Primary and L2 choke that will change anything as long as they are on the core and don't move off that core. The only changes you can make to those two coils is changing frequency or taking turns off the coils or adding turns to them. Just common since. Same goes for the secondary and L1.

Come on people, you know the primary voltage controls the magnetic field strength of the core it's on, and placing another core with other coils on it like Stan has, the gap controls the magnetic field strength of that set of coils.
If you increase the voltage of the Primary from 2 volts up to 12 volts your increasing the magnetic field strength of that core.
So the question is? what does a week field strength or a strong field strength do the the secondary coil and L1 coil due to the gap between the two cores?

Quote from gpssonar on November 9th, 2016, 03:19 PM

So the question is? what does a week field strength or a strong field strength do the the secondary coil and L1 coil due to the gap between the two cores?

Ronnie, if we are only talking about magnetic fields then...
better coupling = better transfer of magnet flux...  = more power transfer.

however, because the wire is also connected... we also need to factor in the true electric interactions.

 it starts to get quite complex real quick... just like Matt posted...

well, lets just keep going one part at a time...

eventually we will get a nice picture in our heads too.

~Russ

Quote from gpssonar on November 9th, 2016, 02:44 PM

Try this as an experiment:

I think I just need to pick something and slap it together.  No other way to do these experiments and see for myself.

Time to spin some wire on a handful of bobbins...

Watch this video that has been posted a thousand times already starting at 30:00. He tells you exactly what I have been talking about how to switch off the covalent bond of the water molecule. Notice the two hydrogen and one oxygen and listen to him. He uses the voltage on the B+ to switch it off. Question is how does dial in the B+ voltage?
What set of cores is the B+ on?
Would the Gap of the two cores adjust the fine tuning of the B+ voltage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqCaVFWIWQ

Guy's I've told you how the math works to get watts in and watts out on the VIC. You should know that you can divide the coils up into three coils or 4 as long as you keep the same resistance in the secondary side circuit. You can take from one coil and add to others and vise versa. You know now that the two hydrogen atoms will place more charge on one plate than the one oxygen atom will due to cancel of charges. You should know how to raise the B+ voltage by taking turns off the L2 and placing them on L1 in order to control it's charge on the plate and how to fine tune it with the Gap of the cores.
So what do we have left?
1: Core material
2: Diode on primary side
3: Diode on Secondary side
4: LC circuit
5: Tuning the LC circuit to the Fuel cell

Quote from gpssonar on November 9th, 2016, 07:05 PM

So what do we have left?
1: Core material
2: Diode on primary side
3: Diode on Secondary side
4: LC circuit
5: Tuning the LC circuit to the Fuel cell

Woo Pig Sooie.  Another 100 pages and we'll be rock'n.    :)

23 pages has got us this far, If I put everything that I posted in one post it would equal about 3 or 4 pages. So that's about 20 pages more from everyone else. I only thought I would have to explain the workings of it in a couple paragraphs and most would understand how to put it together. LOL

Nothing worth having or understanding comes easy.   And speaking of last night's events, the hard part is just beginning.

Ris has been sleeping on it for a while.  He must have gotten it working. ;)

 :cool:

Quote from Matt Watts on November 9th, 2016, 05:55 PM

Time to spin some wire on a handful of bobbins...

Two down; two to go...

Hi GPS... Are you sure this stament is correct

"if all the coils has a piece of core in them already the inductance can not be change, unless you move the core in and out of the coil"

I say.... If you take a coil and place it on half a core than connect a VOM it will show a low inductance.
Drop the other half of the core on and...boom the inductance is 2-5 times higher?
You can also gap the cores to get most any number in between.

Wish I could help on the coupling question..
All I know is Tesla used loose coupling on his high voltage coil.

Dan you are correct if your saying the core material is only half way through the bobbing and you slide in another half. But the example I am using throughout this thread is Stan's vic. It already has the core material completely through the bobbing.

Just wound my first twin core bobbin...69.5 Ohms, 3001 Turns
Henries = 3H-16H  depending on tight core gap or just drop it on
Hmmmmm.
Thinking the inductance is not the big deal it's the Ohms.
We will to adjust the math from Dons numbers to the twin core.

Quote from ~Russ on November 9th, 2016, 08:09 PM

Ris has been sleeping on it for a while.  He must have gotten it working. ;)

it was just a detail in the whole picture to which I completely forget
I'm working on something else and I have Ronnie therefore I can afford a bit slacking ;)

That what i was saying Dan.I also had that high inductance...and to have 1.2H you have to have a 5mm gap so you loose all the coupling

Quote from Ris on November 10th, 2016, 07:53 AM

it was just a detail in the whole picture to which I completely forget
I'm working on something else and I have Ronnie therefore I can afford a bit slacking ;)

DANG IT!

i thought you got it! :)

haha welcome back

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ on November 10th, 2016, 08:19 AM

DANG IT!

i thought you got it! :) 
haha welcome back

~Russ

ohh you think I do not know

Quote from Ris on November 10th, 2016, 09:03 AM

ohh you think I do not know

knowing and working are 2 different things :)

~Russ

smart choice of words indeed

Quote from ~Russ on November 10th, 2016, 09:27 AM

knowing and working are 2 different things :)

See Russ, you guys just exposed one of my major limitations.  I can't possibly know until I have something working and even with something working, the most I will ever know is what I did to get to that point.  But it's still a good starting point.


I still feel like the super high inductance chokes are nothing more than current limiting devices that when run at frequency above their cutoff point do not allow current to flow.  They do nothing to the voltage potential available though.  So you have electrostatic potential sitting at the plates of the WFC, but because the source is oscillating, no current can flow through the circuit.

I'll attempt to get my last coils wound today and do a little playing--maybe see how much a can confirm, or not...

Quote from gpssonar on November 9th, 2016, 07:05 PM

Guy's I've told you how the math works to get watts in and watts out on the VIC. You should know that you can divide the coils up into three coils or 4 as long as you keep the same resistance in the secondary side circuit. You can take from one coil and add to others and vise versa. You know now that the two hydrogen atoms will place more charge on one plate than the one oxygen atom will due to cancel of charges. You should know how to raise the B+ voltage by taking turns off the L2 and placing them on L1 in order to control it's charge on the plate and how to fine tune it with the Gap of the cores.
So what do we have left?
1: Core material
2: Diode on primary side
3: Diode on Secondary side
4: LC circuit
5: Tuning the LC circuit to the Fuel cell

just FYI, I'm in a place where i need the "full story" so i can study and understand your way of thinking Ronnie. Then and only then shall i pick up where i left off,

so, please, do tell the rest of the story...

please speak through the rest of theses 5 things so we can think about the VIC as a hole,

one at a time of coarse.  :)

Thanks for getting us this far.

~Russ

Russ, I'll continue on, But to be honest with you. I don't think anyone is getting anything thing out of all this if you ask me. I don't know if it is me that is trying to teach this or what. I can't keep people focused on Stan's vic and not mine. Until you understand Stan's there is no way anyone can understand my dual core vic. I just wrote 2 pages on how the coils is coupled on Stan's vic and I don't think i got anywhere with it. Trying to rethink what to do next! My dual core setup has up to 5 adjustment on it not including the coils just with gaps and spacing. So how is anyone going to understand that if they don't understand Stan's?

Just keep going Ronnie.  I'm doing a "Stan's VIC" as we speak so I can compare what you have said with what I see as I go along.  I don't even care if this thing works or not.  I just want to be able to see "the yellow brick road", one slab at a time and be able to notice when I fall off the path.

And like Russ mentioned, I am very thankful for you doing this Ronnie.  It means a lot.  More than a lot.  It's everything right now.