High turns ratio <--> Touchy to tune.
Low turns ratio <--> No longer touchy, but you hit a limit and the VIC can no longer react fast enough to the WFC.

Quote from gpssonar on November 4th, 2016, 06:35 PM

Ok, so if everyone knows this and it's basic 101, they why is no one using it?
My next question then is why no one has a working cell if they know this and are using it?

well i cant speak for others but my self i have been, however, there is more to it...
aka everything else must also match...
so "simple concept" was in quotes for a reason... there's more to it...

~Russ

What I've seen all along is people throwing 12 volts to the primary and trying to tune to resonance. Can you see the problem why you can't do that? Your using all the voltage you have to tune into the first level of resonance and not allowing the capacitance to change. It's just like doing the same thing at 1 volt but you've use up all the voltage before anything changed. You have to take it through the different voltage levels and tune to resonance at each level. At each level an amount of gas will be released changing the capacitance. As you take it through each level more gas will be released until you reach the last level of resonance by that time gas is in the cell and water is removed and voltage will take over and go to infinity and amp drops.

All I know for sure is there is a hard way to do this and an easier way to do it.  I spent almost all day going through Russ' Builder thread here:
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=1961.0

And that is the hard way.

What you have stated here in this thread, sure looks much easier.  I sometimes think too easy, but if you have truly separated the wheat from the chaff, then you are right, there isn't really any excuses left for not making a little HHO today.

It's as simple as this Matt, If you take a dry cell and tune it to resonance where the inductance is fixed and the capacitance is fixed you can throw 12 volts to the primary and tune it to resonance no problem. When you do this do all your probing and measurements and take notes. You should end up with the same measurements give or take with a wet cell once it goes through the resonance levels and voltage levels.

The only other thing that is taking place at resonance, the current is at it's highest and the two chokes tries to restrict the current between each choke and that causes some oscillation within the cell.

I have a quick question.

You once told me that you can... After the system is tuned... Just flip on 12v and the system will start.

However. This kinda gose agents the voltage frequency step tuning process.

So your implying that the system will just start of its tuned already.

Can you give me your best guess why this is?

Thanks. ~Russ

Quote from ~Russ on November 4th, 2016, 07:20 PM

I have a quick question.

You once told me that you can... After the system is tuned... Just flip on 12v and the system will start.

However. This kinda gose agents the voltage frequency step tuning process.

So your implying that the system will just start of its tuned already.

Can you give me your best guess why this is?

Thanks. ~Russ

The water bath will hold it's charge as long as there is gas pressure in the cell. Once the pressure is lost and the gas is released the cell will discharge. That's why Stan's gas management card and pressure sensor will never let the cell drop below a certain pressure. If you remember also, i said no one would stick their finger in my cell without getting the piss knocked out of them, even with it off. Because we have increased stable capacity of the cell.

Another thing I might add, If your using a plastic see through cover for the water bath, check the capacitance of the cell without touching it and then check it with your hand on it. If it changes the capacitance then never touch the plastic cover when the cell goes into resonance, there my just be enough change in capacitance to burn up the VIC. Stan took extra steps even with a thick delrin cover for this not happened. Just look at his cell that is inside the red gas tank and also even in the metal tank.

Yeah I agree with that Ronnie. The water for sure will hold a charge.  I'll have to test the pressure idea. Haven't done that.

So if one was to keep the cell discharged when shut off, maybe for safety reasons, the voltage build-up process would have to be initiated at each startup correct?  You would have to do this on your cell right Ronnie, if for example you dumped out all the water and refilled it?

And roughly how long does this startup process take?  Does it depend on the size of your water bath?

Finally I'm beginning to get the whole picture here, how important it indeed is to check the interactions there are between Meyer's electronic cards as they're all working together to both keep the VIC and the WFC producing gas and also to prevent them from blowing up in the process.
I can only imagine how many hours of work you and your team have spent delving into these very inner workings of Meyer's electronics, mucho kudos for that :thumbsup:

Many thanks Ronnie, that's very unselfish and generous of you to share all this with us.

I just wanted to take this opportunity to quote the quote of all times that I've ever had the good fortune to come across,

Quote from gpssonar on November 4th, 2016, 06:55 PM

What I've seen all along is people throwing 12 volts to the primary and trying to tune to resonance. Can you see the problem why you can't do that? Your using all the voltage you have to tune into the first level of resonance and not allowing the capacitance to change. It's just like doing the same thing at 1 volt but you've use up all the voltage before anything changed. You have to take it through the different voltage levels and tune to resonance at each level. At each level an amount of gas will be released changing the capacitance. As you take it through each level more gas will be released until you reach the last level of resonance by that time gas is in the cell and water is removed and voltage will take over and go to infinity and amp drops.

.

Sir we have a capacity problem.

Quote from Enrg4life on November 4th, 2016, 04:05 PM

I would say the capacitance stays the same as long as the water  level is replenished at the same rate.

Thanks Ronnie for the information,That makes a lot of sense.
So I understand correctly that the capacitance of the cell changes with  the change in ratio of water to gas at a certain pressure in the cell.

Stan has a gas pressure management system to maintain a certain gas pressure in the cell which would help maintain a certain capacitance in the system.

Does Stans set-up have a pump or a way to add more water to the cell under pressure?Or does he use the ambient air pressure to fill the cell with gravity?Or pressure differential valve?

Quote from Ris on November 5th, 2016, 05:50 AM

Sir we have a capacity problem.

First we take three different dielectric materials and put it in a cell,for example the value 10, 5 and 1
so how much will be cell capacity boys

 let's move on boys - water is weak polar liquid that retains charge
which cell has more capacity ,an ordinary cell filled with water , or a charged cell with water

I hope this isn't off topic but what is everyone using to drive their coils? 

Quote from Ris on November 5th, 2016, 08:41 AM

which cell has more capacity ,an ordinary cell filled with water , or a charged cell with water

Based on the chronological order of things, I would have to say the ordinary cell filled with water (ground state) has more capacity, since the charged cell with water has used up some of the capacity.  I may however be incorrect with my logic.

Quote from Matt Watts on November 4th, 2016, 06:41 PM

High turns ratio <--> Touchy to tune.
Low turns ratio <--> No longer touchy, but you hit a limit and the VIC can no longer react fast enough to the WFC.

This may be a silly question but I'll ask anyway....

Is there a way to compare the turns ratio as you've stated in terms of tunning to the hfe of a transistor?

Hmm. Then if the pressure gets higher the capacitance might chage? I wonder if haveing a second vic with higher potential would be comething worth while turning on once above a certain point. To excite the gas to a higher level? Almost like start and run winding on a motor. Once up to speed switch over and let next winding take over but in this case a second higher output vic. Just a thought. I would imagine the voltage of stans vic is close to insulation limits of most plastics. Just a thought. I am still chasing copper windings.

Merc

Quote from Ris on November 5th, 2016, 07:37 AM

First we take three different dielectric materials and put it in a cell,for example the value 10, 5 and 1
so how much will be cell capacity boys

this will depend if in series or parallel.

Ronnie this is what happens on the upper resonant cavities stacked , it can explain what happens if you got the gas and then tune into resonance and rise the voltage: (please, run to 19:40)

https://youtu.be/j0f8VbShZYQ?t=19m40s

Quote from Ris on November 5th, 2016, 08:41 AM

let's move on boys - water is weak polar liquid that retains charge
which cell has more capacity ,an ordinary cell filled with water , or a charged cell with water

Based on what you're saying here, with water being a weak polar liquid, I'd say the capacitance increases with voltage as it gets all the more polarized the higher the voltage is.

Quote from gpssonar on November 4th, 2016, 07:30 PM

The water bath will hold it's charge as long as there is gas pressure in the cell. Once the pressure is lost and the gas is released the cell will discharge. That's why Stan's gas management card and pressure sensor will never let the cell drop below a certain pressure. If you remember also, i said no one would stick their finger in my cell without getting the piss knocked out of them, even with it off.

It sounds to me like the gas pressure in the cell is a critical part that needs be taken into consideration when running the system. Is it not also critical for the tunning process too. I would think regulating the gas pressure while tunning the cell would be a must to help regulate the capitance. Am I wrong in thinking this way Ronnie?