Quote from X-Blade on October 30th, 2016, 02:56 PM

That part I dont understand, if you tune it without water it will change when there is gas or water and not air.

But the dielectric constant of air and the dielectric constant of gas is a lot closer to the same.  If you tune to the dielectric constant of water, you'll be way off, like on the order of 25 times, plus the resistance will be much lower when you have water in there.  You want voltage when you have a low dielectric constant in the cell and current leakage when you have a high dielectric constant, but direct electrical short.

Remember, the VIC is an ingenious little device.  It has the ability to work on both gas and water, not necessarily at the same time, but it will provide the transition from one to the other if you have the impendences set correctly and the right amount of current leakage.

This is the way I understand the operation as Ronnie has explained it to me.  If I'm wrong, I'm sure Ronnie will clarify it for everyone.

Thank you Matt.

Quote from X-Blade on October 30th, 2016, 04:34 PM

Thank you Matt.

You're certainly welcome.  I only wish I could speak directly from experience.  October 24th came and went by so fast I was nowhere able to cobble something together for demonstration purposes.  Ronnie is also in a bit of pickle right now with his equipment and research not accessible.  He's running from memory like he said.  We'll get there though, maybe not as quickly as everyone would like, but the good news is this time there is a blueprint that works and if we do our best to follow it, we should succeed.  One at a time, people will start getting their devices working.  It's now or never time.

Can some of us ask for a time stretcher? Now or never is hard to fullfill. Lol.

Merc

Remember these 3 things about XL and XC.


1. Below the resonant frequency, X L is small, but X C has high values that
limit the amount of current.
2. Above the resonant frequency, X C is small, but X L has high values that
limit the amount of current.
3. At the resonant frequency, X L equals X C , and they cancel to allow
maximum current.

As Brad stated the total resistance of the coils of wire on the Secondary and L1 and L2 and the Re of the water is what is used to calculate the current. As you can see the less resistance in the coils of wire and Re stays the same can raise the current. But also the resistance of the coils can stay the same and lowering the Re can also raise the current.
At resonance when XC = XL all you end up with is the resistance of the coils of wire plus the Re of the Gas that will determine the maximum current at the resonate frequency.

For anyone who wants to build the GPS twin core VIC I do have some cores left over from last year If GPS is still using the China core that was used last year. I do not have any extra bobbins...but I do have a CNC coil winder if someone wants to have me wind a coil or two.

 I do have a question...

My coils are wound like the Pic on my worksheet.....Are they considered clockwise?
Thanks again guys nice work here

Using Stan's Vic and the numbers Don gave us as and example, I will attempt to show how to impedance match it all.
Question is what is the purpose of Impedance matching?
The answer is Watts in must equal Watts out. (Isn't that right Mr.Watts :clap:)

Let's start with the Primary, I have already show it has 10 ohms of impedance in it and how it is calculated.

Line(Primary) side=10 ohms
12volts/10ohms=1.2amps
1.2amps*12volts=14.4watts

Next we use a transformer (Amplifier) to match the Load side.
we need to know the total resistance of the load side.
Secondary side= 72.4+76.7+70.1+Re78.54+11.5=310 ohms

Now that we have a total resistance of the line side of 10ohms
and a total resistance of the load side of 310ohms

Next we take the 310ohms and 10ohms and use this formula to get the turn ratio.
Ns/Np=sqrt Zs/Zp   sqrt (310/10)=5.567
So we need a turn ratio of 5.567 to 1

We know our line voltage is 12volts We can times this by the turn ratio of 5.567 which is =66.816 Load Voltage
Now we have our load voltage.
Next we calculate the load watts
using formula (66.816 ^2)/310ohms= 14.4 watts

That's how you do it. :bliss:
 

NICE  :cool:

Quote from gpssonar on October 30th, 2016, 07:36 PM

Ns/Np=sqrt Zs/Zp   sqrt 300/10=5.477
So we need a turn ratio of 5.477 to 1

Where does the 300 come from?

Shouldn't that be: sqrt( 310/10 )=5.568 ?

Quote from gpssonar on October 30th, 2016, 07:36 PM

We know our line voltage is 12volts We can times this by the turn ration of 5.477 which is =65.724 Load Voltage
Now we have our load voltage.
Next we calculate the load watts
using formula 65.724 sq2/310ohms= 14.4 watts

Checking the math...

Doing: ( 65.724^2 ) / 310ohms gives =13.9 watts

A use of parenthesis would be useful, not relying on the order of operations.

Actually, this checks out! (when correcting 300 to 310)

( 66.816^2 ) / 310ohms gives =14.4 watts

Change your errors from 300 to 310 ohms. And, change 65.724 to 66.816 load voltage.

5.477 to 5.568 turns ratio ...

One error can mess up the whole math.

Xblade,i didnt count turns.i measured the wire lenght as Ronnie adviced.The wire resistance came out perfect.just like Dons spreadsheet.The problem is with inductance on the primary coil it did not match up...it came out 3.7uH air core.Matt if i tune it with air core i get max 340v at around 20khz...i have 4freq ranges but only there i get max voltage

Quote from gpssonar on October 30th, 2016, 07:36 PM

Using Stan's Vic and the numbers Don gave us as and example, I will attempt to show how to impedance match it all.
Question is what is the purpose of Impedance matching?
The answer is Watts in must equal Watts out. (Isn't that right Mr.Watts :clap:)

Hooray!  See, I knew I was a part of this whole mess somehow.

Quote from gpssonar on October 30th, 2016, 07:36 PM

Secondary side= 72.4+76.7+70.1+Re78.54+11.5=310 ohms

So secondary coil, plus positive choke, plus negative choke, plus dielectric property of water, plus...

What's that 11.5 ohms?  Where does it come from?

Quote from gpssonar on October 30th, 2016, 07:36 PM

That's how you do it. :bliss:

Holy cow!   The math looks pretty easy, but...

I see some interdependency here that will take lots of do and redo to zero in on the final values.  I also see how that very fact enables this circuit to function as it does.  It has a built-in feedback loop that will constantly attack the water at faster than the speed of light.  If anything changes in the cell, the impedance changes immediately, faster than the water can react.  This might be the whole key to it Ronnie.  Did you ever consider that?

The turns ratio will force you to recalculate the resistance of the wire you use to get that many turns, and...

The resistance of the wire you spin on the bobbin will force you to recalculate the turns ratio.

Hmmm...    This could turn out to be a little bit of a pain in the butt.

Ronnie, didn't you mention to me a while back that the turns on the chokes need to match the turns on the secondary?  So if I was to adjust the secondary, to get the right turns ratio, I would also have to alter the turns on both chokes?

That's enough questions for now.  I can see why you had a spreadsheet to calculate this stuff.

Quote from haxar on October 30th, 2016, 09:02 PM

Where does the 300 come from?

Shouldn't that be: sqrt( 310/10 )=5.568 ?

Thanks haxar I fixed it. It was way passed my bedtime last night and I was just trying to get it done. If you see another mistake please fix it in my post. Thanks again!!!!!

Matt, The 11.5 is the feedback coil.....and yes that is correct the chokes must match the secondary....That's why if you take turns off the L2 they must be added back to L1. In Stan's example secondary is 73ohms close enough, then 76ohm for the L1 and 70 for L2 if you take 3ohms off the L1 and put that 3 ohms back on the L2 you can see they all match to 73ohms. Why does he do this? It's to get the slight potential difference in voltage needed on the chokes. Yea My brain can't keep all this straight, that's the reason for the spreadsheet. To much math to deal with all at the same time. Now you can see when someone ask me a question, how my brain gets all scrambled.

Quote from gpssonar on October 30th, 2016, 04:51 PM

Remember these 3 things about XL and XC.


1. Below the resonant frequency, X L is small, but X C has high values that
limit the amount of current.
2. Above the resonant frequency, X C is small, but X L has high values that
limit the amount of current.
3. At the resonant frequency, X L equals X C , and they cancel to allow
maximum current.

Now this says everything
everyone thinks that choke coils restrict current going in cell which is absolutely incorrect

adys15 only with luck it will work based on primary resistance.

You need to use the transformer formula to determine the primary turns, you need the Bmax, min. frequency, voltage and core section area, then the secondary is X times the primary.

The load on secondary will define the load to primary.

Xblade i used the wire lenght used by stan and by Ronnie on his round bobins.If i got lets say less turns than stans..the turn ratio remains the same being the same lenght if wire

Quote from gpssonar on October 30th, 2016, 07:36 PM

Using Stan's Vic and the numbers Don gave us as and example, I will attempt to show how to impedance match it all.
Question is what is the purpose of Impedance matching?
The answer is Watts in must equal Watts out. (Isn't that right Mr.Watts :clap:)

Let's start with the Primary, I have already show it has 10 ohms of impedance in it and how it is calculated.

Line(Primary) side=10 ohms
12volts/10ohms=1.2amps
1.2amps*12volts=14.4watts

Next we use a transformer (Amplifier) to match the Load side.
we need to know the total resistance of the load side.
Secondary side= 72.4+76.7+70.1+Re78.54+11.5=310 ohms

Now that we have a total resistance of the line side of 10ohms
and a total resistance of the load side of 310ohms

Next we take the 310ohms and 10ohms and use this formula to get the turn ratio.
Ns/Np=sqrt Zs/Zp   sqrt (310/10)=5.567
So we need a turn ratio of 5.567 to 1

We know our line voltage is 12volts We can times this by the turn ration of 5.567 which is =66.816 Load Voltage
Now we have our load voltage.
Next we calculate the load watts
using formula (66.816 ^2)/310ohms= 14.4 watts

That's how you do it. :bliss:

So where does the 220 Ohm resistor across the primary figure in all this? Shouldn't the resistor be 300 Ohms? or is the resistor not counting the 78.54 and the 11.5 Ohms of the feedback?

Quote from Ris on October 31st, 2016, 04:21 AM

Now this says everything
everyone thinks that choke coils restrict current going in cell which is absolutely incorrect

Listen to what stan says at 15:38 into the video. He says he's using the magnetic fields of the 2 chokes to restrict amp flow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaB5ME8kFGU

I have not heard a single word off restriction amp flow to the cell

Quote from Ris on October 31st, 2016, 10:03 AM

I have not heard a single word off restriction amp flow to the cell

Where is he restricting amp flow to then?

there is a particular reason why people call me Ris ugly moerfker.
volts times capacity=power times oscillations=changing magnetic field through the core all the way to the primary winding=drop all to mamps.Stanley Meyer is a smart man

Quote from Ris on October 31st, 2016, 10:29 AM

there is a particular reason why people call me Ris ugly moerfker.
volts times capacity=power times oscillations=changing magnetic field through the core all the way to the primary winding=drop all to mamps.Stanley Meyer is a smart man

I have absolutely no idea what that means but Stan definately says at 15:38 and i'll quote him word for word 'were allowing/using the electromagnetic fields of the 2 coils, the resonant charging coils to restrict the amp flow'
Now, seeing as there is no other apparatus connected to the VIC than the cell then I'm assuming it has to mean the cell.