"Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"

haxar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #125, on October 27th, 2016, 09:34 PM »
It is unknown or forgotten by me whether the chokes aid or oppose. Keep looking.

HHO-Dan

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #126, on October 27th, 2016, 11:57 PM »Last edited on October 30th, 2016, 03:49 AM
Just wanted to post this worksheet so that we can all be on th same page.
We Do Need To Make Corrections..

Wish I could help more but I'm not sure about the coil orientation.

PS: This was done in paint so anybody can make changes...
10/30/16 Updated to V4.3...hope its right
Fixed L1 to match GPS changes.....Thanks GPS

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #127, on October 28th, 2016, 02:15 AM »Last edited on October 29th, 2016, 01:45 PM
Quote from Matt Watts on October 27th, 2016, 07:51 PM
Should they be aiding?  Or should they be opposing (bucking)?   The two chokes that is.

I can also see the L2 coil appears to have fewer wraps of wire.  At least is looks a bit smaller in diameter to me.
Matt, the secondary and L1 are aiding each other and the secondary and L2 are opposing each other.
That's how you get a B+ voltage and B- voltage. Compare the two photos below and you can see the aiding and opposing.
The second photo came out of the Grobb book if you want to look it up. It's in the chapter 19 Inductance. It will also teach you how to calculate the mutual inductance of aiding and opposing coils. I'm not getting into the Math of it all, Right now I just want everyone to be able to Identify all the working parts of the VIC.
Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #128, on October 28th, 2016, 02:48 AM »Last edited on October 28th, 2016, 02:51 AM
Quote from HHO-Dan on October 27th, 2016, 11:57 PM
Just wanted to post this worksheet so that we can all be on th same page.
We Do Need To Make Corrections..

Wish I could help more but I'm not sure about the coil orientation.

PS: This was done in paint so anybody can make changes
Dan, your cells are not right on your drawing, they should go from outer to inner to outer inner ect.

HHO-Dan

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #129, on October 28th, 2016, 03:07 AM »
Thanks, GPS...Fixed..Hope the rest is basicly OK

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #130, on October 28th, 2016, 03:11 AM »Last edited on October 28th, 2016, 03:51 AM
Quote from ~Russ on October 26th, 2016, 10:13 AM
Nav, you remove turns from L2, that is the " wiper arm"  its a thing you tune by removing turns a few at a time ( lets say 25 at a time) until you see the results your looking for. Matt explained this quite well above.

hope this helps.

 ~Russ
Russ if you remember Stan saying in one of his video's he was talking about a tv and how you adjust the B+ voltage. You can do this either by taking turns off the L2 or add turns to L1. But for the Math of everything to keep B+ higher than the B- and to keep it equal and balanced, This goes back to what Nav was talking about when he was stating the coils are matched. What ever you take off the L2 it must be added back to L1 if that makes any since. That way you only take off half of what you need on L2 and add back to L1. Man this VIC is a complicated little animal for it to be nothing but a bunch of wire coiled up on a core. Lol The biggest thing is identifying each part of the VIC and how they work together and knowing how to calculate the math for each part to come up with a working end result when your done. You must know what the end result needs to be before you even start. I have described the end result in my posts, so that ought to give some insight of what everyone should be working towards. You want, as in Stan words (Voltage stimulation) (Electron Bounce) (Electron Movement) (Current Flow) what ever the term you want to use along with High Voltage, within the cell but not get back to the Secondary that's the end result.

nav

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #131, on October 28th, 2016, 08:42 AM »
I like where this is going.
Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #132, on October 28th, 2016, 08:55 AM »
Here is a blank pattern of my VIC Ronnie, all the coils are wound in the same direction and the voltage polarization is marked on each coil. The diode is also present. Can you take the blank picture and fill in the missing adjoining wires please, this is so important and I don't want to get it wrong. Thanks.

Matt Watts

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #133, on October 28th, 2016, 09:06 AM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 28th, 2016, 02:15 AM
Matt, the secondary and L1 are aiding each other and the secondary and L2 are opposing each other.
That's how you get a B+ voltage and B- voltage. Compare the two photos below and you can see the aiding and opposing.
The second photo came out of the Grobb book if you want to look it up. It's in the chapter 19 Inductance. It will also teach you how to calculate the mutual inductance of aiding and opposing coils. I'm not getting into the Math of it all, Right now I just want everyone to be able to Identify all the working parts of the VIC.
Hmmm...

This makes perfect sense with a single core setup, however with a two-core design, I'm a little lost as to how the chokes aid or oppose the secondary at all, since there is no magnetic link anymore.  Seems to me these two designs would behave completely different.

I certainly agree, this is a complicated little animal.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #134, on October 28th, 2016, 09:14 AM »
Quote from nav on October 28th, 2016, 08:55 AM
Here is a blank pattern of my VIC Ronnie, all the coils are wound in the same direction and the voltage polarization is marked on each coil. The diode is also present. Can you take the blank picture and fill in the missing adjoining wires please, this is so important and I don't want to get it wrong. Thanks.
I'll be moe than happy to Nav when I get home from work. All I can do here at work on my iPhone is check in from time to time.

nav

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #135, on October 28th, 2016, 09:36 AM »
I'm thinking its like this Ronnie.
Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #136, on October 28th, 2016, 09:48 AM »
So what you're saying Ronnie is that L2 as an opposing current direction to the secondary because both negatives appose each other but because L2 has less turns there is leakage current and voltage and it is the leakage voltage that finds its way to the cell while the vast majority of the current is choked by L2 and secondary cancellation. Brilliant, I should have realised this when I did my bucking coil testing and found leakage voltage.
If we hit resonance during pulse off time, the voltage is expotential and not linear, I'm loving this Ronnie.
Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #137, on October 28th, 2016, 10:13 AM »Last edited on October 28th, 2016, 10:16 AM
Quote from HHO-Dan on October 27th, 2016, 11:57 PM
Just wanted to post this worksheet so that we can all be on th same page.
We Do Need To Make Corrections..

Wish I could help more but I'm not sure about the coil orientation.

PS: This was done in paint so anybody can make changes...V4.2
Just a small query, if you have even cell numbers it doesn't work out like pictured below. When in series only odd configurations work out.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #138, on October 28th, 2016, 02:52 PM »
Quote from nav on October 28th, 2016, 09:36 AM
I'm thinking its like this Ronnie.
You are correct Nav. Thats how it's wired.

Dom

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #139, on October 28th, 2016, 06:26 PM »
Quote from nav on October 28th, 2016, 10:13 AM
Just a small query, if you have even cell numbers it doesn't work out like pictured below. When in series only odd configurations work out.
Hope this helps

adys15

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #140, on October 28th, 2016, 11:47 PM »
Ronnie the coil setup is for the 2 core vic?or for the original vic?because its diferent from Don's drawings...he has the start of L1 to + and finish of L2 to -.In your drawing the 2 finishes of the chokes conect to +&- of the cells

nav

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #141, on October 29th, 2016, 02:06 AM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 28th, 2016, 03:11 AM
Russ if you remember Stan saying in one of his video's he was talking about a tv and how you adjust the B+ voltage. You can do this either by taking turns off the L2 or add turns to L1. But for the Math of everything to keep B+ higher than the B- and to keep it equal and balanced, This goes back to what Nav was talking about when he was stating the coils are matched. What ever you take off the L2 it must be added back to L1 if that makes any since. That way you only take off half of what you need on L2 and add back to L1. Man this VIC is a complicated little animal for it to be nothing but a bunch of wire coiled up on a core. Lol The biggest thing is identifying each part of the VIC and how they work together and knowing how to calculate the math for each part to come up with a working end result when your done. You must know what the end result needs to be before you even start. I have described the end result in my posts, so that ought to give some insight of what everyone should be working towards. You want, as in Stan words (Voltage stimulation) (Electron Bounce) (Electron Movement) (Current Flow) what ever the term you want to use along with High Voltage, within the cell but not get back to the Secondary that's the end result.
Do you think Stan took the flyback transformer from a tv and this is where the technology has come from? Possibly adding current inhibiting into the circuit later?

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #143, on October 29th, 2016, 03:47 AM »Last edited on October 29th, 2016, 04:16 AM
Quote from adys15 on October 28th, 2016, 11:47 PM
Ronnie the coil setup is for the 2 core vic?or for the original vic?because its diferent from Don's drawings...he has the start of L1 to + and finish of L2 to -.In your drawing the 2 finishes of the chokes conect to +&- of the cells
Adys15, Everything I am referencing to is to Stan's Vic. I don't want to confuse people even more by talking about the two core Vic.  You can take my word for it, I have done my home work. I took every photo of the Stan's estate photos of the Vic and traced every wire in them and where they go. Many hours went into it, sorting through the rat nest of wires.
Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #144, on October 29th, 2016, 04:59 AM »Last edited on October 29th, 2016, 01:33 PM
In this drawing below I have separated the cores for a reason. First I want you to take notice of the Primary and L2 choke is on the same core coupled together. Next the Secondary and L1 choke is on the same core coupled together. Take notice of the capacitor, It is what brings everything together (other than the magnetic field) that cause the coils to interact with one another. With a dead short this want take place, once again you must remove the dead short in the capacitor before any interaction of the coils will occur. You have one transmission line from the secondary and the L2 choke that couples the secondary to the L2 choke. The secondary and L1 choke is already coupled by being on the same core. So therefor besides the magnetic coupling, it takes the capacitor as well to bring everything together.

X-Blade

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #145, on October 29th, 2016, 05:18 AM »
Ronnie, I think that this is only valid when the two halves are stacked together and working as one core.

nav

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #146, on October 29th, 2016, 05:32 AM »Last edited on October 29th, 2016, 05:36 AM
I think i'm beginning to understand the stages Ronnie. The priciple is definately based on the flyback transformer.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #147, on October 29th, 2016, 05:40 AM »Last edited on October 29th, 2016, 05:56 AM
X-Blade I am drawing it exactly the way Stan's Vic is made, It is not one solid core. It's two cores. I just want people to recognize each working part and how they come together.

nav

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #148, on October 29th, 2016, 05:44 AM »
This is an important fact Ronnie: When you pulse the primary and are wondering which wires go where, you must make sure in testing that when the primary is pulsed the secondary wire which goes to the diode MUST produce NEGATIVE charge and reverse bias the diode. When the primary is switched off the coils will switch polarity and the wire going to the diode will turn POSITIVE and forward bias the diode

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #149, on October 29th, 2016, 05:50 AM »
Nav, your doing a fine job putting things together.