The best Papp engine design as follows:

John Rohner overcomplicates his horizontally opposed engine design. Simple is better. And no need for the complexity for a VW 1600 design.

In its simplest form, the combined Papp engine gen set is a cylinder tube with a double faced piston riding inside of it. The faces are located on opposite ends of the piston. This piston has permanent magnets installed near it outer surface. It rides back a forth inside this nonmagnetic  tube.  The tube is covered with a copper coil wrapped around its outside.

Both ends of the tube contain a spark gap that is fired alternately to push the piston back and forth.

When the piston has moved to the far right the right side spark will fire, the piston will then move to the far left of the tube; Then at that time, the far left spark will fire and so on to and fro in a cycle.



There is no connecting rod attached to the piston.

The piston is free floating on a cushion of hydrogen as described in this video. It is like a bullet in a gun barrel that oscillates from one side of the gun barrel to the other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHFUi0F0PgA&feature=related

The back and forth movement in the piston will induce an alternating current in the coil turned around the outside of the tube.

The piston seal does not need to be gas tight because the shock wave from the spark will provide the energy that rocks the piston to and fro.

The tube is hydrogen tight. The only breach in the tube is for hydrogen pressure recharge and seals that provide wire runs for electric power output and spark current input.
   

Quote from Axil on October 2nd, 2012, 12:55 PM

The best Papp engine design as follows:

John Rohner overcomplicates his horizontally opposed engine design. Simple is better. And no need for the complexity for a VW 1600 design.

In its simplest form, the combined Papp engine gen set is a cylinder tube with a double faced piston riding inside of it. The faces are located on opposite ends of the piston. This piston has permanent magnets installed near it outer surface. It rides back a forth inside this nonmagnetic  tube.  The tube is covered with a copper coil wrapped around its outside.

Both ends of the tube contain a spark gap that is fired alternately to push the piston back and forth.

When the piston has moved to the far right the right side spark will fire, the piston will then move to the far left of the tube; Then at that time, the far left spark will fire and so on to and fro in a cycle.



There is no connecting rod attached to the piston.

The piston is free floating on a cushion of hydrogen as described in this video. It is like a bullet in a gun barrel that oscillates from one side of the gun barrel to the other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHFUi0F0PgA&feature=related

The back and forth movement in the piston will induce an alternating current in the coil turned around the outside of the tube.

The piston seal does not need to be gas tight because the shock wave from the spark will provide the energy that rocks the piston to and fro.

The tube is hydrogen tight. The only breach in the tube is for hydrogen pressure recharge and seals that provide wire runs for electric power output and spark current input.

That is something else, good call, KISS.:cool::D:P

Quote from Axil on October 2nd, 2012, 12:55 PM

The best Papp engine design as follows:

John Rohner overcomplicates his horizontally opposed engine design. Simple is better. And no need for the complexity for a VW 1600 design.

In its simplest form, the combined Papp engine gen set is a cylinder tube with a double faced piston riding inside of it. The faces are located on opposite ends of the piston. This piston has permanent magnets installed near it outer surface. It rides back a forth inside this nonmagnetic  tube.  The tube is covered with a copper coil wrapped around its outside.

Both ends of the tube contain a spark gap that is fired alternately to push the piston back and forth.

When the piston has moved to the far right the right side spark will fire, the piston will then move to the far left of the tube; Then at that time, the far left spark will fire and so on to and fro in a cycle.



There is no connecting rod attached to the piston.

The piston is free floating on a cushion of hydrogen as described in this video. It is like a bullet in a gun barrel that oscillates from one side of the gun barrel to the other.


The back and forth movement in the piston will induce an alternating current in the coil turned around the outside of the tube.

The piston seal does not need to be gas tight because the shock wave from the spark will provide the energy that rocks the piston to and fro.

The tube is hydrogen tight. The only breach in the tube is for hydrogen pressure recharge and seals that provide wire runs for electric power output and spark current input.

The piston can't have much weight, cause otherwise you'd have a paintshaker.
And the inlet and outlet isn't needed, of course.

I especially like the idea of the piston also riding on the gas/air... nice

Hello Russ and thanks for great work and inspiration.
here is a link to SWR calculations for antennas and SWR
http://www.hamuniverse.com/testingswr.html
regards /Janne Strom, Sweden

Axil,
The concept has been referenced many times in many blogs and usually
points to: http://www.freepistonpower.com/fp3.aspx
with comments to drop the Diesel and substitute the noble gas heads.
My experience with 3HC-CH2-CH3 ($20 7/11) ionization via continuous spark
excitation always yields a substantial Ionic Hydrogen Corona with the safety of
Barbecue Gas handling. No need for the ports. Just seal up the whole affair
and allow a small sump for liquid propane. The LP (Liquefied Propane) trucks
haul it around without refrigeration or the need for heavy high pressure
Hydrogen type cylinders. Recover the electrical energy with the coils around
the cylinder where popper space volume change takes place using adequate
circuitry.  Do not waste it on a silly litle motor that spins a black and white
disk.
Waste not, want not,
Chan

Quote from Jeff Nading on October 2nd, 2012, 01:09 PM

Quote from Axil on October 2nd, 2012, 12:55 PM

The best Papp engine design as follows:

John Rohner overcomplicates his horizontally opposed engine design. Simple is better. And no need for the complexity for a VW 1600 design.

In its simplest form, the combined Papp engine gen set is a cylinder tube with a double faced piston riding inside of it. The faces are located on opposite ends of the piston. This piston has permanent magnets installed near it outer surface. It rides back a forth inside this nonmagnetic  tube.  The tube is covered with a copper coil wrapped around its outside.

Both ends of the tube contain a spark gap that is fired alternately to push the piston back and forth.

When the piston has moved to the far right the right side spark will fire, the piston will then move to the far left of the tube; Then at that time, the far left spark will fire and so on to and fro in a cycle.



There is no connecting rod attached to the piston.

The piston is free floating on a cushion of hydrogen as described in this video. It is like a bullet in a gun barrel that oscillates from one side of the gun barrel to the other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHFUi0F0PgA&feature=related

The back and forth movement in the piston will induce an alternating current in the coil turned around the outside of the tube.

The piston seal does not need to be gas tight because the shock wave from the spark will provide the energy that rocks the piston to and fro.

The tube is hydrogen tight. The only breach in the tube is for hydrogen pressure recharge and seals that provide wire runs for electric power output and spark current input.

That is something else, good call, KISS.:cool::D:P

At first I thought this might work, but,
you know the more I think of this piston moving back and forth and at very high oscillation's, I think it would self destruct, there would be way to much vibration. :D I think the "mechanics" of the VW engine would work the best, not saying to use a VW engine, could start from scratch, just saying the "mechanics" of it would work with no vibration.:D

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 2nd, 2012, 12:17 AM

Just acquired some measuring devices.

 

Argon did not do much so far... ( cool shorted out again...)
~Russ

Russ,

If you have argon available, try a 50/50 mix of argon and hydrogen - The partial pressure of each gas will be 1/2 atm (for a 1 atm total pressure).  These two gases almost coincide on the Paschen curve at the higher pressures.  For a 50/50 mix, they should both have a similar ignition voltage that is lower than either gas (at a full 1 atm pressure) alone.

Just one more experiment to put in the stack of to-do's - Lol

Keep up the good work!!

kcd

PS. Still working on the engine here, but my real job is cutting into my playtime! :(

Quote from k c dias on October 2nd, 2012, 03:41 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 2nd, 2012, 12:17 AM

Just acquired some measuring devices.

 

Argon did not do much so far... ( cool shorted out again...)
~Russ

Russ,

If you have argon available, try a 50/50 mix of argon and hydrogen - The partial pressure of each gas will be 1/2 atm (for a 1 atm total pressure).  These two gases almost coincide on the Paschen curve at the higher pressures.  For a 50/50 mix, they should both have a similar ignition voltage that is lower than either gas (at a full 1 atm pressure) alone.

Just one more experiment to put in the stack of to-do's - Lol

Keep up the good work!!

kcd

PS. Still working on the engine here, but my real job is cutting into my playtime! :(

Can't wait to see you do some experiments with your engine.:cool::D:P

If shockwave production is central to the Papp reaction,  it may be possible to build a Papp generator without the need for a piston.

Here is my reasoning:

When the spark fires, a shock wave will form, expand, and travel down the length of the tube. This wave is comprised of a shockwave front of both electrons and ions. The electrons will move down the tube far faster than the positive protons because they are 2000 times lighter.

This shockwave will produce a large electric current along the axis of the tube parallel to its length.

This flow of electrons will produce a huge magnetic field that will be emanated accorting to the right hand rule with the thumb pointing in the direction of shockwave travel.

The magnetic field will circle the circumference of the tube and be oriented parallel to it.

A network of a large number of thin copper wires can be arrayed along the length of the tube on its outside surface and parallel to its length direction, which also happens to be the direction of travel of the shockwave.

The end of each element of this multi-wire mesh can then be connected at the ends of each of these equally long elements to a common connector at two opposing junctions just beyond each end of the tube.

This mesh of parallel wires can now convert the rapidly changing magnetic flux as it expands and contracts to electric power that can be rectified and stored in capacitors.

This power generated my the mesh can be added to the feedback power produced by plasma collapse of the shockwave that is usually found in Papp engines.  

If the mesh of wires is thick enough, all the rapidly changing magnetic flux lines can be converted to electricity at maximum efficiency without the need for any mechanical moving parts.

Additionally from the perspective of experimentation, if magnetic field lines can be detected when the Papp engine is fired, the production of a shockwave will be both verified and quantified.
 

 

Quote from Axil on October 2nd, 2012, 05:04 PM

If shockwave production is central to the Papp reaction,  it may be possible to build a Papp generator without the need for a piston.

Here is my reasoning:

When the spark fires, a shock wave will form, expand, and travel down the length of the tube. This wave is comprised of a shockwave front of both electrons and ions. The electrons will move down the tube far faster than the positive protons because they are 2000 times lighter.

This shockwave will produce a large electric current along the axis of the tube parallel to its length.

This flow of electrons will produce a huge magnetic field that will be emanated accorting to the right hand rule with the thumb pointing in the direction of shockwave travel.

The magnetic field will circle the circumference of the tube and be oriented parallel to it.

A network of a large number of thin copper wires can be arrayed along the length of the tube on its outside surface and parallel to its length direction, which also happens to be the direction of travel of the shockwave.

The end of each element of this multi-wire mesh can then be connected at the ends of each of these equally long elements to a common connector at two opposing junctions just beyond each end of the tube.

This mesh of parallel wires can now convert the rapidly changing magnetic flux as it expands and contracts to electric power that can be rectified and stored in capacitors.

This power generated my the mesh can be added to the feedback power produced by plasma collapse of the shockwave that is usually found in Papp engines.  

If the mesh of wires is thick enough, all the rapidly changing magnetic flux lines can be converted to electricity at maximum efficiency without the need for any mechanical moving parts.

Additionally from the perspective of experimentation, if magnetic field lines can be detected when the Papp engine is fired, the production of a shockwave will be both verified and quantified.

This sounds good on paper :D but , if we are talking extreme "energy" power being released or expansion of a gas, would there not need to be some means of absorbing that energy? I could be wrong but, would it not explode like a firecracker? I think it would have to be a long tube for it to expand in. I'm just asking because I don't know and felt it needed to be. Lets say it would not explode, this could be used for the EPG with the pulse fire trigger to ionize the gas.You could setup three EPG units and have three phase electrical power.:cool::D:P

Quote from Axil on October 2nd, 2012, 05:04 PM

If shockwave production is central to the Papp reaction,  it may be possible to build a Papp generator without the need for a piston.

Here is my reasoning:

When the spark fires, a shock wave will form, expand, and travel down the length of the tube. This wave is comprised of a shockwave front of both electrons and ions. The electrons will move down the tube far faster than the positive protons because they are 2000 times lighter.

This shockwave will produce a large electric current along the axis of the tube parallel to its length.

This flow of electrons will produce a huge magnetic field that will be emanated accorting to the right hand rule with the thumb pointing in the direction of shockwave travel.

The magnetic field will circle the circumference of the tube and be oriented parallel to it.

A network of a large number of thin copper wires can be arrayed along the length of the tube on its outside surface and parallel to its length direction, which also happens to be the direction of travel of the shockwave.

The end of each element of this multi-wire mesh can then be connected at the ends of each of these equally long elements to a common connector at two opposing junctions just beyond each end of the tube.

This mesh of parallel wires can now convert the rapidly changing magnetic flux as it expands and contracts to electric power that can be rectified and stored in capacitors.

This power generated my the mesh can be added to the feedback power produced by plasma collapse of the shockwave that is usually found in Papp engines.  

If the mesh of wires is thick enough, all the rapidly changing magnetic flux lines can be converted to electricity at maximum efficiency without the need for any mechanical moving parts.

Additionally from the perspective of experimentation, if magnetic field lines can be detected when the Papp engine is fired, the production of a shockwave will be both verified and quantified.

Easy enough to detect a magnetic field, just set a compass nearby.   As far a generating electricity, the piston could just move a magnet through the coil.  I think this is getting ahead of the design though.  Getting a piston to do a lot of work should be the goal.   I also think it is a good idea to go forward with hydrogen given the results.  Doping it with some other gas might be a viable experiment as well.  

Just thinking again :D, need to remember for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so there will be a recoil effect even of the gas.

Quote from Jeff Nading on October 2nd, 2012, 07:59 PM

Just thinking again :D, need to remember for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so there will be a recoil effect even of the gas.

Regarding: For every action there is and equal and opposite reaction.

This is what we need to find out. This rule may or may not be true.

The reaction to electron movement is a magnetic flux, and the reaction of a magnetic flux is electron flow.

If the Papp reaction is extracting energy out of Casmir force and/or nuclear fusion the energy produced by the spark that creates the shockwave will produce and amplification of that spark energy in the shockwave. That shockwave energy will transfer this amplified energy to the wire mess around the outside of the tube.

If there is any gain in energy, the Papp reaction  will amplify the energy of the spark by a positive amount called “energy gain factor” or Q.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_energy_gain_factor

This is why one important experiment we need to do is to accurately measure the energy going into the popper and compare it against the energy coming out of the popper.  It is important to determine if there is a positive Q factor.
 

 



 

Russ wrote:
Axil, that's just it, If we need a hydrogen laser to create the correct photon energy is not a hydrogen laser hydrogen atoms that have been excited to give off the proper wavelength?

And since they're giving off the proper wavelength within the high-voltage capacitive discharge the rest of the atoms in the chamber should be affected? Just like inserting a laser beam into that gas???

So the "laser" or sorce of light in the correct wave length is the H that's already in the chamber? It's like a chain reaction. In theory it should equal out but maybe something else is happening???

Just trying to make photon energy make some sence of this... ( past research)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is why both Chan and I have recommended the use of a high-voltage capacitive discharge spark to pre-condition the hydrogen for the high current spark discharge.

The high-voltage capacitive discharge will do a number of things to the hydrogen.

1.   The spark will produce light in the hydrogen spectrum that will excite other hydrogen atoms to a high excitation level.
2.   It will produce heat in excess of 12,000 k, the ionization temperature of hydrogen gas
3.   It will produce magnetic and RF waves that will excite hydrogen atoms at a distance from the center of the spark.
4.   If the current that creates the Pre-spark is produced using a high frequency current, this RF current will induce addition heat, more magnetic and RF waves than a DC current will.
5.   The pre-spark will produce many electrons and ions that will ionize other hydrogen atoms through collision.

Chan is an experienced experimentalist in this area, follow his advice. He has done this before. Use high-voltage capacitive discharge to precondition the hydrogen before you apply the main high current spark.

I recommend using the high-voltage capacitive discharge as a trigger of the main capacitive high current spark. This makes the circuits easy to do and keeps the logic of the sequence of the various spark timings simple.
 

Quote from k c dias on October 2nd, 2012, 03:41 PM

kcd

PS. Still working on the engine here, but my real job is cutting into my playtime! :(

Grr those partypoopers at work!!! Don't they realize how important your papp engine work is to the world?
Its like with superman and his dayjob...;)

Quote from Axil on October 2nd, 2012, 08:50 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on October 2nd, 2012, 07:59 PM

Just thinking again :D, need to remember for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so there will be a recoil effect even of the gas.

Regarding: For every action there is and equal and opposite reaction.

This is what we need to find out. This rule may or may not be true.

The reaction to electron movement is a magnetic flux, and the reaction of a magnetic flux is electron flow.

If the Papp reaction is extracting energy out of Casmir force and/or nuclear fusion the energy produced by the spark that creates the shockwave will produce and amplification of that spark energy in the shockwave. That shockwave energy will transfer this amplified energy to the wire mess around the outside of the tube.

If there is any gain in energy, the Papp reaction  will amplify the energy of the spark by a positive amount called “energy gain factor” or Q.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_energy_gain_factor

This is why one important experiment we need to do is to accurately measure the energy going into the popper and compare it against the energy coming out of the popper.  It is important to determine if there is a positive Q factor.
 



Russ wrote:
Axil, that's just it, If we need a hydrogen laser to create the correct photon energy is not a hydrogen laser hydrogen atoms that have been excited to give off the proper wavelength?

And since they're giving off the proper wavelength within the high-voltage capacitive discharge the rest of the atoms in the chamber should be affected? Just like inserting a laser beam into that gas???

So the "laser" or sorce of light in the correct wave length is the H that's already in the chamber? It's like a chain reaction. In theory it should equal out but maybe something else is happening???

Just trying to make photon energy make some sence of this... ( past research)

Hmm, when did Russ write this? Its so allowkwent, almost two
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is why both Chan and I have recommended the use of a high-voltage capacitive discharge spark to pre-condition the hydrogen for the high current spark discharge.

The high-voltage capacitive discharge will do a number of things to the hydrogen.

1.   The spark will produce light in the hydrogen spectrum that will excite other hydrogen atoms to a high excitation level.
2.   It will produce heat in excess of 12,000 k, the ionization temperature of hydrogen gas
3.   It will produce magnetic and RF waves that will excite hydrogen atoms at a distance from the center of the spark.
4.   If the current that creates the Pre-spark is produced using a high frequency current, this RF current will induce addition heat, more magnetic and RF waves than a DC current will.
5.   The pre-spark will produce many electrons and ions that will ionize other hydrogen atoms through collision.

Chan is an experienced experimentalist in this area, follow his advice. He has done this before. Use high-voltage capacitive discharge to precondition the hydrogen before you apply the main high current spark.

I recommend using the high-voltage capacitive discharge as a trigger of the main capacitive high current spark. This makes the circuits easy to do and keeps the logic of the sequence of the various spark timings simple.

On the capturing the magnetic force side... (without piston) the gas will still need room to expand and so you start of at a lower pressure then 1 atm?

Quote from freethisone on October 2nd, 2012, 06:15 AM

there are so many configurations available. light, glow plugs, lasers, magnetic induction, but what about charging the caps a different way.
like a disposable camera? this guy did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CNEb30Egzw&feature=related
a 12 v battery source or less.  sparking can be controlled through magnetic pickups, with aftermarket ignitions such as the msd digital 6.
a  msd 40 thousand volt blaster ignition coil. a make shift distributor for timing, etc..
there are endless configurations ideas. use with a gas processor, uv, infra red,  or a 5000 Gauss field?
sharp points, smaller cc cylinders, or shaped. ventri tubes, wave guides, etc..
the cylinder shape is important, how about a diamond shape..   so have fun and go make a popper.

I love it when a plan comes together, cheers.
How about adding a dielectric to the mix? powdered glass, or quartz?

So many ways to try..then have we tried voodoo yet? Like hovering a dead chicken above it?
Works on my puter when windows sucks again...:D

Sorry just kidding...

Quote from Chan on October 2nd, 2012, 02:59 PM

Axil,
The concept has been referenced many times in many blogs and usually
points to: http://www.freepistonpower.com/fp3.aspx
with comments to drop the Diesel and substitute the noble gas heads.
My experience with 3HC-CH2-CH3 ($20 7/11) ionization via continuous spark
excitation always yields a substantial Ionic Hydrogen Corona with the safety of
Barbecue Gas handling. No need for the ports. Just seal up the whole affair
and allow a small sump for liquid propane. The LP (Liquefied Propane) trucks
haul it around without refrigeration or the need for heavy high pressure
Hydrogen type cylinders. Recover the electrical energy with the coils around
the cylinder where popper space volume change takes place using adequate
circuitry.  Do not waste it on a silly litle motor that spins a black and white
disk.
Waste not, want not,
Chan

Do we know if the oscillating free piston system yields more electricity then a modern dynamo?

Plus that the papp engine has little rpm but high torque. So you need more induction to use that force, maybe using coils and current extra to the permanent magnets in the piston? Moving more flux.

Quote

On the capturing the magnetic force side... (without piston) the gas will still need room to expand and so you start of at a lower pressure then 1 atm?

If the supersonic shockwave theory is correct as applied to the Papp engine, the shockwave is a transition boundary between hydrogen gas and hydrogen plasma. This boundary transition is what is concentrating electrons as it moves through the tube.

It is like a supersonic boom that happens in the air when a jet exceeds the speed of sound. A sonic boom is a compression wave that can carry a great deal of energy: it can break windows.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom

An bomb can distribute its energy through the air in a blast wave.

A lightning bolt can distribute sound energy by causing thunder.

Waves can carry energy in a medium without any permanent displacement or movement or change in that medium like pressure or volume.


 

Quote from Axil on October 2nd, 2012, 10:55 PM

Quote

On the capturing the magnetic force side... (without piston) the gas will still need room to expand and so you start of at a lower pressure then 1 atm?

If the supersonic shockwave theory is correct as applied to the Papp engine, the shockwave is a transition boundary between hydrogen gas and hydrogen plasma. This boundary transition is what is concentrating electrons as it moves through the tube.

It is like a supersonic boom that happens in the air when a jet exceeds the speed of sound. A sonic boom is a compression wave that can carry a great deal of energy: it can break windows.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom

An bomb can distribute its energy through the air in a blast wave.

A lightning bolt can distribute sound energy by causing thunder.

Waves can carry energy in a medium without any permanent displacement or movement or change in that medium like pressure or volume.

Whatever you call it, it has a volume expansion force

Quote from GordonFreeman on October 2nd, 2012, 12:37 PM

Russ, when you rewrapped your transformer did you keep the number of wraps the same? 20 wraps hv wire #14 primary, 10 wraps #14 hv wire secondary?  I'm ready to wrap my ferrite core. I've got a roll of neon wire 15,000v rated.

so far i have found HV wire 14gage stranded primary. and i think its 8 Gage secondary, the secondary needs to be high voltage wire also, ( or insolate it well!) 3 times not i have had this short out over time. so insulate that core well first!!! so far i have used about 1:1 with 12-14 turns... seems to work well... if you have a big input on the primary... there not hard to wrap, your HV source may not be as good a mine so you'll just need to try different things.

~Russ

PS thanks all for the comments. a lot to respond to... lol but i'm still reading :)

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 2nd, 2012, 11:55 PM

PS thanks all for the comments. a lot to respond to... lol but i'm still reading :)

And maybe more for ye..if ye haven't read this one yet.

Along the time Papp was bussy..also someone else was making a noble gas engine..maybe this person didn't hold back in his patents as much as Papp did?

Robert G. Britt

go to page 365 till 375 in appendix 3
(just do ctrl-f type britt and enter..it takes ye there)

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Appendix3.pdf

worth a read..i guess

Have you had your outside family dinner yet?

Thoughts:
When I was a kid, Mom did the laundry outside. My job was to pump water into
a tub with a hand pump atop a 2" pipe buried in ground water. The bottom of
the cylinder had a flapper valve (Leather) and the piston had a valve with a
rubber ring seal. Think Popper with a SPRING. Think magnets flying up through
OPEN coil like Mom's pump piston moving down. Think spring forcing magnets
down and harvesting electrical energy through use of diodes. Just like the
water expelled from the pump. Up stroke on pump handle easy, down stroke I
worked.
Pop a Watt
Chan

Quote from FaradayEZ on October 3rd, 2012, 12:51 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 2nd, 2012, 11:55 PM

PS thanks all for the comments. a lot to respond to... lol but i'm still reading :)

And maybe more for ye..if ye haven't read this one yet.

Along the time Papp was bussy..also someone else was making a noble gas engine..maybe this person didn't hold back in his patents as much as Papp did?

Robert G. Britt

go to page 365 till 375 in appendix 3
(just do ctrl-f type britt and enter..it takes ye there)

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Appendix3.pdf

worth a read..i guess

Have you had your outside family dinner yet?

yes, allready posted this one way back :)
[attachment=2380]
here is another patent by the same guy. a type of rotary vain motor.
[attachment=2381]

food? where? i like food! wheres the food?  :)

~Russ

Quote from Axil on October 2nd, 2012, 08:50 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on October 2nd, 2012, 07:59 PM

Just thinking again :D, need to remember for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so there will be a recoil effect even of the gas.

Regarding: For every action there is and equal and opposite reaction.

This is what we need to find out. This rule may or may not be true.

The reaction to electron movement is a magnetic flux, and the reaction of a magnetic flux is electron flow.

If the Papp reaction is extracting energy out of Casmir force and/or nuclear fusion the energy produced by the spark that creates the shockwave will produce and amplification of that spark energy in the shockwave. That shockwave energy will transfer this amplified energy to the wire mess around the outside of the tube.

If there is any gain in energy, the Papp reaction  will amplify the energy of the spark by a positive amount called “energy gain factor” or Q.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_energy_gain_factor

This is why one important experiment we need to do is to accurately measure the energy going into the popper and compare it against the energy coming out of the popper.  It is important to determine if there is a positive Q factor.
 

 



 

Russ wrote:
Axil, that's just it, If we need a hydrogen laser to create the correct photon energy is not a hydrogen laser hydrogen atoms that have been excited to give off the proper wavelength?

And since they're giving off the proper wavelength within the high-voltage capacitive discharge the rest of the atoms in the chamber should be affected? Just like inserting a laser beam into that gas???

So the "laser" or sorce of light in the correct wave length is the H that's already in the chamber? It's like a chain reaction. In theory it should equal out but maybe something else is happening???

Just trying to make photon energy make some sence of this... ( past research)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is why both Chan and I have recommended the use of a high-voltage capacitive discharge spark to pre-condition the hydrogen for the high current spark discharge.

The high-voltage capacitive discharge will do a number of things to the hydrogen.

1.   The spark will produce light in the hydrogen spectrum that will excite other hydrogen atoms to a high excitation level.
2.   It will produce heat in excess of 12,000 k, the ionization temperature of hydrogen gas
3.   It will produce magnetic and RF waves that will excite hydrogen atoms at a distance from the center of the spark.
4.   If the current that creates the Pre-spark is produced using a high frequency current, this RF current will induce addition heat, more magnetic and RF waves than a DC current will.
5.   The pre-spark will produce many electrons and ions that will ionize other hydrogen atoms through collision.

Chan is an experienced experimentalist in this area, follow his advice. He has done this before. Use high-voltage capacitive discharge to precondition the hydrogen before you apply the main high current spark.

I recommend using the high-voltage capacitive discharge as a trigger of the main capacitive high current spark. This makes the circuits easy to do and keeps the logic of the sequence of the various spark timings simple.

Thanks Axil and Chan, yes much more testing and data gathering will need to be done :cool::D:P.

1   Atm    =   14.695948775492     psi


http://online.unitconverterpro.com/conversion-tables/convert-alpha/pressure.html

Guess I need start some tests over, I was know where near that???

Just to pile on some additional research.. here it is ..

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTgeneration.pdf
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19650023945_1965023945.pdf
http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/55635/RLE_QPR_086_XIII.pdf?sequence=1
looks like you got your work cut out for you Russ:huh::blush:...

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 3rd, 2012, 06:40 AM

1   Atm    =   14.695948775492     psi


http://online.unitconverterpro.com/conversion-tables/convert-alpha/pressure.html

Guess I need start some tests over, I was know where near that???

Hmm i guess there's atmosphere and there's atmosphere... ow and don't forget pascal and mister bar?

So the atmosphere we have isn't one atmosphere any more?

I knew the planet was chancing....:s
   

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 3rd, 2012, 06:40 AM

1   Atm    =   14.695948775492     psi


http://online.unitconverterpro.com/conversion-tables/convert-alpha/pressure.html

Guess I need start some tests over, I was know where near that???

Uh, Russ,



PSI is not the same as PSIA.  But you knowww that right??



kcd