Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.

FaradayEZ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #550, on October 1st, 2012, 07:34 AM »
Quote from freethisone on October 1st, 2012, 07:23 AM
at certain high voltages, and high frequency's there is an increase in the out put of the plasma-tron device..  

these higher frequency must be needed if  these 3 states in that order of plasma energy occur.

if each time there must be a collapse. the higher frequency may sustain the effect. Oscillator is needed?

thanks Russ for all the hard work..

hehe:) 3 stated of plasma.. check it out,,:cool:
Still a good video...going to see it for the 101th time..:)
 

jbignes5

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #551, on October 1st, 2012, 09:13 AM »Last edited on October 1st, 2012, 10:03 AM by jbignes5
 Just a question. How does the c happen in an electron path. What we have been able to observer is that the electron is actually a cloud and not a particle. So his explanation is not quite jiving with what is being seen.

 We know what atoms look like and gases are atoms with huge spaces in between.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCYX_XQgnSA

 The loops he is talking about have never been seen or felt. So his answer is just a guess at best.

 But if I were to guess after viewing this video I would say that most matter is crystalline. Gasses would also follow this crystalline pattern just further spacing between the atoms.

 Keep it simple.

 Here is another great example with a real time video of atoms(strong bounded, what we call solid matter). Gas is loosely bound matter.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx90iE6wmig&feature=related

 Lets stop guessing and make better assumptions of the process.


 If I had to guess about the process and what an electron is I would have to look at the island as a prime example. The waves would be encompassing the atom and in this case the waves are the electron. If the island were free floating the waves would stop crashing on the shores of the island and the island would start to vibrate with the waves. The waves would start to look like a shell around the atom and that is exactly what it is.
 Seeing the picture of real atoms in motion allows you to see this action. Each atom is an island unto itself and the waves keep them evenly spaced. The strong bond is atom charge equalization. This means any extra charge moves it further from the rest and then pullse itself back into position as the others move away. You can see the atoms waving in unison with a water like pattern.

 Now lets do this with atoms that are not strongly bound together like in a gas. The weak force of the waves around the islands(atoms) loosely bind them together and the charge levels from atom to atom are very different on that scale.

 And my ever so favorite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofp-OHIq6Wo&feature=related

cplouffe

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #552, on October 1st, 2012, 12:40 PM »
Hey Russ,

Great work you are doing!!  I just wanted to make a few comments on what I see in your most recent experiments.

I have been studying Walter and Lao Russell's work for a bit now and I seem to resonate with the EU theory and their take on everything.

If you follow this type of thinking you can see where this device would work with the Inert gases and that there is transmutation going on.  
For example:
/watch?v=HwQIioZig2Q

If you follow Walter's periodic table you will find that the high voltage/current/fields, etc... will move you up and down the table.  Going from different elements or to different inert gases all based on pressures and conditions.  The octave wave.

My guess is that if you measure what was left over from your inert gas mixture it would probable be more Helium than others because of it being the balancing gas in the carbon octave. Either way, I think there are changes happening.

So again, if you follow the periodic table where Hydrogen is located... you will see that there are gases located before and in lower octaves.  So it would seem that when you are "electrocuting" the Hydrogen you are changing the Hydrogen into its lower octaves which will increase the volume and decrease the potential.  That is why the piston would not go down.  The gas that is the result is expanding or has the property of increased volume.

The return spikes that you are seeing is the effect of disturbing the equilibrium and creating more electricity or "motion".

http://lightcoalition.org/rusell-periodic-table/

So just a few thoughts...  I like to think outside the box.    :)

Also this fits in with some ideas I have been having lately of powering a combustion engine with hydrogen/plasma/air.  But atmospheric/cold plasma instead. Fun stuff!

Axil

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #553, on October 1st, 2012, 12:53 PM »Last edited on October 1st, 2012, 12:58 PM by Axil
I confirm and concur that the best idea expressed so far in this thread is using a glowplug to ionize the gas between the electrodes in the spark gap.

The glowplug is very rugged; it is designed to stand up to the pressure and heat inside the combustion chamber of a diesel engines. This ionization source might stand up well to the heat, pressure and explosive impact produced by the ignition of the main spark.



The glowplug is constructed from non-corrosive material designed for a long life in a very hostile environment.

To drive the discharge of the main spark in an optimum way, from an experimental standpoint,  by varying the current supplied to the glowplug, the temperature of the glowplug can be precisely adjusted to determine both the minimum current required by the glowplug and the associated optimism intra gap ionization level.

A key design principle in improving the design of the Papp cylinder is to keep heat production to a minimum. Finding the optimum ionization level using a glow plug is an important step in achieving this low heat design goal.

The glowpug design is a generalized one associated with spark optimization. This design is one that can be used with any type of gas. But experimentally, some recalibration of current input might need to be done when the gases as changed.

In the long term, any use of commensal off the shelf(COTS) hardware is a priority in commercializing the new Papp engine design.

For the protection of the health of the experimenter and later those who maintain the commercial Papp engine, another design priority is the elimination of radioactive material, especially alpha emitters, in the design of the Papp engine. Using a glowplug design will accomplish this goal.

k c dias

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #554, on October 1st, 2012, 01:22 PM »
Quote from TinMan on October 1st, 2012, 06:05 AM
What about transparent aluminum??-they use it in star trek lol.
All joke's aside-they do actualy make transparent aluminum(and people laughed at star trek)
Im not sure of the cost-but maybe worth looking into?.
If not,then why not use high temp Plexiglass tube.
I know we have 10mm thick clear tube avalible at our plexiglass place here in WA.
It has the same temp rateing as the clear plexiglass sight tube's on large hot water systems.
It's preasure rateing at 100 degree's c is 1200psi-so i recon that would do the trick.
The transparent aluminum is actually a very cool idea!  But the time to ship it to you may be a factor, as the effect only lasts 40 femtoseconds.
The characteristics of high temp plexiglass is unknown to me, but folks need to be cautious using plexiglass and PVC for pressure vessels containing compressible gases.  Look into using Lexan (polycarbonate) if clear is required, and ABS pipe that is specifically rated for pressured air service.
Play safe!!

kcd


jbignes5

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #555, on October 1st, 2012, 01:55 PM »Last edited on October 1st, 2012, 02:06 PM by jbignes5
Quote from cplouffe on October 1st, 2012, 12:40 PM
Hey Russ,

Great work you are doing!!  I just wanted to make a few comments on what I see in your most recent experiments.

I have been studying Walter and Lao Russell's work for a bit now and I seem to resonate with the EU theory and their take on everything.

If you follow this type of thinking you can see where this device would work with the Inert gases and that there is transmutation going on.  
For example:
/watch?v=HwQIioZig2Q

If you follow Walter's periodic table you will find that the high voltage/current/fields, etc... will move you up and down the table.  Going from different elements or to different inert gases all based on pressures and conditions.  The octave wave.

My guess is that if you measure what was left over from your inert gas mixture it would probable be more Helium than others because of it being the balancing gas in the carbon octave. Either way, I think there are changes happening.

So again, if you follow the periodic table where Hydrogen is located... you will see that there are gases located before and in lower octaves.  So it would seem that when you are "electrocuting" the Hydrogen you are changing the Hydrogen into its lower octaves which will increase the volume and decrease the potential.  That is why the piston would not go down.  The gas that is the result is expanding or has the property of increased volume.

The return spikes that you are seeing is the effect of disturbing the equilibrium and creating more electricity or "motion".

http://lightcoalition.org/rusell-periodic-table/

So just a few thoughts...  I like to think outside the box.    :)

Also this fits in with some ideas I have been having lately of powering a combustion engine with hydrogen/plasma/air.  But atmospheric/cold plasma instead. Fun stuff!
http://www.its-about-time.com/htmls/ac/ch1/ch1act5.pdf

 Have a look at this exercise and see what you are perceiving as a transmutation is actually just the light given at specific energy levels of the hydrogen going to a specific energy level and falling back to a lower energy level.

 There is no transmutation going on at all. It is just a light phenomena pertaining to the inputted energy and outputted energy to the hydrogen.

 Although I don't subscribe to a discrete electron particle I do subscribe to a radiative emission from an electron shell that goes in all directions.

meggerman

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #556, on October 1st, 2012, 02:32 PM »Last edited on October 1st, 2012, 03:18 PM by meggerman
Hi Russ,
Its good to see the effect is working with hydrogen.

Setup
Thinking about the set-up you have where you have a high voltage arc that allows a path for high current, relatively low voltage to pass.

Energy
Your capacitor discharge which I see is calculated at 770 joules?
That is a lot of energy.
Example:
77KG raised 1 meter in height = 770n x 1m = 770 joules of energy

Ok, lets work this out:
Energy = 0.5 x C x V^2 joules
= 0.5 x 0.035 F x 250 x 250
= 1094 joules
Remaining = 0.5 x 0.035F x 120 x 120
= 252
Total consumed = 842 joules

If you need very high current and very short duration then you could get your power levels way down using a capacitive discharge circuit as used in CD welders.
Typically you can see currents of 6000 to 10000 amps.

Its hardly surprising that the popper circuit made Intelligentry will not work on its own.

RF Energy
Another thought I had, what happens if the spark is enclosed inside a glass tube inside the chamber?
Will the RF radiation from the spark be enough to trigger the plasma without contacting the gas?

Spark concentration
An idea I mentioned in my email is a cross shaped spark using 4 electrodes (no common ground).
This is so you get a large concentration of energy is the centre of the chamber.
The streamers should cross over each other and tie in the middle (I suspect), then when the current follows the streamer path, you have an ultra hot point in the centre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOwmDZX5Zg
See 3:08 onwards Dan Glover mentions about concentrating the energy to a centre point.
Not sure if we are allowed to link the image from another site but here we can see the 4 electrodes in the head:

I will try and get a set of 4 pencil ignition plug tops to experiment with this idea.
Should be possible to test is in an container in water and use electrolysis to fill the container with H2.

Rob




jbignes5

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #557, on October 1st, 2012, 03:41 PM »

 Please don't do it with the electrolysis in the same container. This is a very dangerous idea. You could always make a separate electrolysis unit and separate the hydrogen from the oxygen first then pump it into the container.

Babble

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #558, on October 1st, 2012, 03:47 PM »Last edited on October 1st, 2012, 06:18 PM by Babble
Quote from meggerman on October 1st, 2012, 02:32 PM
Energy
Your capacitor discharge which I see is calculated at 770 joules?
That is a lot of energy.
Example:
77KG raised 1 meter in height = 770n x 1m = 770 joules of energy

Ok, lets work this out:
Energy = 0.5 x C x V^2 joules
= 0.5 x 0.035 F x 250 x 250
= 1094 joules
Remaining = 0.5 x 0.035F x 120 x 120
= 252
Total consumed = 842 joules

Rob
Just a clarification, Russ said he had 32K uF in the video so that is what I used for the 770 joules calculation expended (just to correct the 1000 joules stated in the video).  Later, he stated 35K uF.    I don't know which is correct.

On the amount of energy released in the discharge, I'm not sure the example of 77KG raised 1 meter is helpful because it seems to overstate the energy.   Without a scope we are guessing but I suspect the LV discharge is under 50 milliseconds.  Using your figure of 842 joules  x 0.050S we have 42 watts of power in the discharge and the actual time will change this.  Here is a nice conversion site for this: http://www.convertworld.com/en/power/Joule+per+second.html

Axil

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #559, on October 1st, 2012, 04:08 PM »Last edited on October 1st, 2012, 07:55 PM by Axil
Quote from Axil on October 1st, 2012, 12:53 PM
I confirm and concur that the best idea expressed so far in this thread is using a glowplug to ionize the gas between the electrodes in the spark gap.

The glowplug is very rugged; it is designed to stand up to the pressure and heat inside the combustion chamber of a diesel engines. This ionization source might stand up well to the heat, pressure and explosive impact produced by the ignition of the main spark.



The glowplug is constructed from non-corrosive material designed for a long life in a very hostile environment.

To drive the discharge of the main spark in an optimum way, from an experimental standpoint,  by varying the current supplied to the glowplug, the temperature of the glowplug can be precisely adjusted to determine both the minimum current required by the glowplug and the associated optimism intra gap ionization level.

A key design principle in improving the design of the Papp cylinder is to keep heat production to a minimum. Finding the optimum ionization level using a glow plug is an important step in achieving this low heat design goal.

The glowpug design is a generalized one associated with spark optimization. This design is one that can be used with any type of gas. But experimentally, some recalibration of current input might need to be done when the gases as changed.

In the long term, any use of commensal off the shelf(COTS) hardware is a priority in commercializing the new Papp engine design.

For the protection of the health of the experimenter and later those who maintain the commercial Papp engine, another design priority is the elimination of radioactive material, especially alpha emitters, in the design of the Papp engine. Using a glowplug design will accomplish this goal.
I would be remiss if I failed to mention two other routes to ionization and RF production inside the Papp cylinder.

In the first, a spark plug could be used to pre-ionize the spark channel to prepare the way for the high current spark.

The spark plug electrode could be positioned in the center of the spark channel. Upon firing this plug, the 20,000K temperature would completely breakdown the molecules of hydrogen(H2) into protons and electrons.

This timing of sparkplug firing would precede execution of the high current speak by a micro second.

The spark plug firing would produce ions in the spark channel and also produce RF.

In the second approach, a very high voltage spark (100,000 volts) with a low current (20 milliamps) flowing across the main electrodes would trigger the execution of the high current spark in a design similar to that of Sprytron technology. See below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krytron

The high voltage spark would both simultaneously trigger the high current spark and produce RF. We know that this high voltage spark does not produce a shockwave. Also the Sprytron can trigger high current flow in less a nanosecond causing a gigantic burst of instantaneous power to be unleashed.


In summary, it would be difficult to work out electronics for such a concept at least for me. But coming up with an integrated Sprytron design into the Papp cylinder would be cool in the extreme.

The heat produced by the Sprytron design would be minimal and this design would be economical in that the combined energy of both the high energy spark and the high current spark would be additive to the production of the shockwave.

This Sprytron design keeps the hardware that currently exists the same, but it does add complication to the external spark production mechanism.



 


Jeff Nading

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #561, on October 1st, 2012, 05:53 PM »
Ya know guy's, I was just thinking, a VW 1600 engine would be idle and soooo easy to convert to a pap engine. The heads and cylinders can be removed and fitted with what ever we want, pistons could be fitted with a different type of ring materiel, maybe need to be machined to fit Teflon or type of rubber so it will seal. What do you think? Jeff.:cool::D:P


BobN

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #563, on October 1st, 2012, 09:10 PM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on October 1st, 2012, 05:53 PM
Ya know guy's, I was just thinking, a VW 1600 engine would be idle and soooo easy to convert to a pap engine. The heads and cylinders can be removed and fitted with what ever we want, pistons could be fitted with a different type of ring materiel, maybe need to be machined to fit Teflon or type of rubber so it will seal. What do you think? Jeff.:cool::D:P
I think you have a great idea, but before I would jump in and build an engine I would make sure the exact conditions for firing a cylinder are fully understood and characterized. It appears that the cylinder doesn't fire 100% of the time, this could be disastrous with tying multiple cylinders together with a dependent timing requirement. You can get started on the basic build, but I would hold of on trying it until the timing can be demonstrated to be repeatable.  My $0.02

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #564, on October 1st, 2012, 09:18 PM »
Quote from BobN on October 1st, 2012, 09:10 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on October 1st, 2012, 05:53 PM
Ya know guy's, I was just thinking, a VW 1600 engine would be idle and soooo easy to convert to a pap engine. The heads and cylinders can be removed and fitted with what ever we want, pistons could be fitted with a different type of ring materiel, maybe need to be machined to fit Teflon or type of rubber so it will seal. What do you think? Jeff.:cool::D:P
I think you have a great idea, but before I would jump in and build an engine I would make sure the exact conditions for firing a cylinder are fully understood and characterized. It appears that the cylinder doesn't fire 100% of the time, this could be disastrous with tying multiple cylinders together with a dependent timing requirement. You can get started on the basic build, but I would hold of on trying it until the timing can be demonstrated to be repeatable.  My $0.02
I think that's the same engine that papp used that killed a guy. Or something similar...

That's when Papp stopped... Later had a custom Engen built... Why? The other AL block would not hold up...??? Just my $0.02 lol

It all depends. Yes, could convert a motor, but, of we need to re make 70% of the motor... May as well re design to sute needs?

And when this time comes... A new thred will be started!!! This is the popper thred! That will be the Engine thred! ;) thumbs up!

Axil

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #565, on October 1st, 2012, 10:38 PM »Last edited on October 1st, 2012, 11:39 PM by Axil
Producing high current spark discharge is like producing lightning but on a smaller scale.

The property that initiates a lightning strike is the formation of the leader.

Leader propagation is an important phase in the discharge breakdown of very long gap in a gas. The leader channel is characterized by a high gas temperature (1000 K at the leader tip and 5000–6000 K in the long-lived regions of the leader) which causes a rise in the lifetime of the leader plasma by many orders of magnitude. In order to maintain the plasma during the leader development it is necessary not only to slow down the loss of electrons but also to ionize neutral particles. The current density in the leader channel is governed not by the plasma conductivity but rather by the ionization processes in the streamer zone in front of the leader tip. The process that does this is the development of a corona.

Corona discharge

A corona is a process by which a current flows from an electrode with a high potential into a neutral fluid, usually air, by ionizing that fluid so as to create a region of plasma around the electrode. The ions generated eventually pass charge to nearby areas of lower potential, or recombine to form neutral gas molecules.

When the potential gradient (electric field) is large enough at a point in the fluid, the fluid at that point ionizes and it becomes conductive. If a charged object has a sharp point , the the gas around that point will be at a much higher gradient than elsewhere. Gas near the electrode can become ionized (partially conductive), while regions more distant do not.

When the gas near the point becomes conductive, it has the effect of increasing the apparent size of the conductor. Since the new conductive region is less sharp, the ionization may not extend past this local region. Outside this region of ionization and conductivity, the charged particles slowly find their way to an oppositely charged object and are neutralized.

If the geometry and gradient are such that the ionized region continues to grow until it reaches another conductor at a lower potential, a low resistance conductive path between the two will be formed, resulting in an electric arc.

Corona discharge usually forms at highly curved regions on electrodes, such as sharp corners, projecting points, edges of metal surfaces, or small diameter wires. The high curvature causes a high potential gradient at these locations, so that the gas breaks down and forms plasma there first. In order to suppress corona formation, terminals on high voltage equipment are frequently designed with smooth large diameter rounded shapes like balls or toruses, and corona rings are often added to insulators of high voltage transmission lines.

Coronas may be positive or negative. This is determined by the polarity of the voltage on the highly-curved (pointy)  electrode. If the curved electrode is positive with respect to the flat electrode we say we have a positive corona, if negative we say we have a negative corona.

The physics of positive and negative coronas are strikingly different. This asymmetry is a result of the great difference in mass between electrons and positively charged ions, with only the electron having the ability to undergo a significant degree of ionizing inelastic collision at common temperatures and pressures.

See this for more info:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge



Both positive and negative leaders will form with the negative leader being longer than the positive leader. When the positive and negative leaders find each other and connect, a flow of heavy current can begin.

In our case, it is important that the time it takes these leaders to connect does not produce a shockwave. This time of heavy current flow is what determines instantaneous power and thus the formation of the shockwave. This time should be as short as possible to mazimize the shockwave.

The spark formation process should be comprised of two stages; first leader connection across the electrodes using very high voltage; and next, after leader connection has been established then a flow of high current.

To emphasize, shark electrode tips are important in the consistant formation of the leaders.

The following video shows how long it takes leaders to form when shark tips are not present in the charged volume.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MUYsIjTKvk&feature=endscreen

An experiment

As soon as someone gets their popper setup to scientifically measure the force of gas expansion, one experiment I would be interested in conducting to determine the role that leaders play in high current discharge is as follows.

Connect a very thin wile between the anode and the cathode but leave a very small separation between them.

The thin wires simulate the leader formation process. Then trigger the high current spark.

Both these thin wires will be vaporized by the high current and form a plasma channel that the high current flow will follow.

The small separation distance will minimize the time it takes ionization and associated breakdown to occur.

If an oscilloscope could measure the difference in spark initiation time that rapid leader production produces, this time can be correlated against any change in expansion force produce by the hydrogen gas.  


 
 

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #566, on October 2nd, 2012, 12:17 AM »Last edited on October 2nd, 2012, 12:20 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Just acquired some measuring devices. ( top cylinder, and a heat measuring device... )

So slowly I'm making progress. On measuring devices...  ( love what employers throw out! ( with a little work... Good as new..)

Axil,

What do you think about the idea of the light doing the work? I mean, the bright flash has some real influences on the electrons and where they're at in there valence ring...   I mean if the flash of light from the capacitor discharge is bright enough to excite the gases into an ionized state by using just light (which can be done) then we may actually be creating a plasma by ionizing the hydrogen using light and or electromagnetic radiation...

if you download that video and go through the frame by frame you will notice that the flash happens and then goes away by that time the piston starts moving it's interesting that the flash is actually almost or is out of the frame before the piston really starts moving???

Just seems odd. Don't know, some good thoughts and theory's have been posted here,

If its just thermal conduction. Then helium will work even better...


http://www.engineersedge.com/heat_transfer/thermal-conductivity-gases.htm


???


I'll find out soon...

Argon did not do much so far... ( cool shorted out again...)
~Russ

Axil

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #567, on October 2nd, 2012, 12:44 AM »Last edited on October 2nd, 2012, 01:04 AM by Axil
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 2nd, 2012, 12:17 AM
Just acquired some measuring devices. ( top cylinder, and a heat measuring device... )

So slowly I'm making progress. On measuring devices...  ( love what employers throw out! ( with a little work... Good as new..)

Axil,

What do you think about the idea of the light doing the work? I mean, the bright flash has some real influences on the electrons and where they're at in there valence ring...   I mean if the flash of light from the capacitor discharge is bright enough to excite the gases into an ionized state by using just light (which can be done) then we may actually be creating a plasma by ionizing the hydrogen using light and or electromagnetic radiation...

if you download that video and go through the frame by frame you will notice that the flash happens and then goes away by that time the piston starts moving it's interesting that the flash is actually almost or is out of the frame before the piston really starts moving???

Just seems odd. Don't know, some good thoughts and theory's have been posted here,

If its just thermal conduction. Then helium will work even better...


http://www.engineersedge.com/heat_transfer/thermal-conductivity-gases.htm


???


I'll find out soon...

Argon did not do much so far... ( cool shorted out again...)
~Russ
Because of quantum mechanics, the frequency of the light must be turned to the electron orbit just like you tune a radio to pick up a station.

Next the light must be in the far ultraviolet to strip electrons off of hydrogen.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_series

Next IMO, the light must be produced by a laser.

So we need a ultraviolet hydrogen laser to generate the light to ionize hydrogen.


From a personal perspective, I am not interested in the other gases because hydrogen envelope technology is big in LENR right now because of Rossi and Chan.

Ride that hydrogen popping horse into the history books.

 
 


Quote
if you download that video and go through the frame by frame you will notice that the flash happens and then goes away by that time the piston starts moving it's interesting that the flash is actually almost or is out of the frame before the piston really starts moving???
This is to be expected.

The shockwave of electrons and protons hits the piston head near the speed of light. The piston has a lot of enertia to overcome.  The force of the shock wave produces an impulse but the piston will translate that force relativly slowly into movement and accelerate outward.

This is a sign that the compression is produced by a shockwave hiting the piston and not electrostatic repulsion in the gas.

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #568, on October 2nd, 2012, 02:17 AM »Last edited on October 2nd, 2012, 02:21 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from Axil on October 2nd, 2012, 12:44 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 2nd, 2012, 12:17 AM
Just acquired some measuring devices. ( top cylinder, and a heat measuring device... )

So slowly I'm making progress. On measuring devices...  ( love what employers throw out! ( with a little work... Good as new..)

Axil,

What do you think about the idea of the light doing the work? I mean, the bright flash has some real influences on the electrons and where they're at in there valence ring...   I mean if the flash of light from the capacitor discharge is bright enough to excite the gases into an ionized state by using just light (which can be done) then we may actually be creating a plasma by ionizing the hydrogen using light and or electromagnetic radiation...

if you download that video and go through the frame by frame you will notice that the flash happens and then goes away by that time the piston starts moving it's interesting that the flash is actually almost or is out of the frame before the piston really starts moving???

Just seems odd. Don't know, some good thoughts and theory's have been posted here,

If its just thermal conduction. Then helium will work even better...


http://www.engineersedge.com/heat_transfer/thermal-conductivity-gases.htm


???


I'll find out soon...

Argon did not do much so far... ( cool shorted out again...)
~Russ
Because of quantum mechanics, the frequency of the light must be turned to the electron orbit just like you tune a radio to pick up a station.

Next the light must be in the far ultraviolet to strip electrons off of hydrogen.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_series

Next IMO, the light must be produced by a laser.

So we need a ultraviolet hydrogen laser to generate the light to ionize hydrogen.


From a personal perspective, I am not interested in the other gases because hydrogen envelope technology is big in LENR right now because of Rossi and Chan.

Ride that hydrogen popping horse into the history books.
Axil, that's just it, If we need a hydrogen laser to create the correct photon energy is not a hydrogen laser hydrogen atoms that have been excited to give off the proper wavelength?

And since they're giving off the proper wavelength within the high-voltage capacitive discharge the rest of the atoms in the chamber should be affected? Just like inserting a laser beam into that gas???

So the "laser" or sorce of light in the correct wave length is the H that's already in the chamber? It's like a chain reaction. In theory it should equal out but maybe something else is happening???

Just trying to make photon energy make some sence of this... ( past research)

~Russ

GordonFreeman

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #569, on October 2nd, 2012, 03:12 AM »Last edited on October 2nd, 2012, 03:24 AM by GordonFreeman
Would a tiny amount of mercury in the chamber have any effect? Say like just as much as the amount of mercury in a cfl (4 to 5 mg). It might give it a little extra kick after it becomes vaporized. It also might do nothing. Who knows. The toxicity is an issue too. If it had negative effects how do you completely remove all traces of it from your chamber in a safe and effective manner.  It might be as easy as just letting the gas out if it becomes vaporized.
Oh ya congrats on your write up on pesn.com!  Even Darth has good things to say about you and your work. :)

jbignes5

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #570, on October 2nd, 2012, 05:33 AM »

 If you want a better pop from the capacitor might I suggest doing it the way Tesla and other had found out is the best way. Simply put two magnets in attraction mode on either side of the electrodes. This will cause the area between the electrodes to become cross polarized and restrict the arc which will cause a better sharper pop across the electrodes. Tesla referred to this as a magnetically quenched spark gap.

 

freethisone

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #571, on October 2nd, 2012, 06:15 AM »Last edited on October 2nd, 2012, 06:26 AM by freethisone
there are so many configurations available. light, glow plugs, lasers, magnetic induction, but what about charging the caps a different way.
like a disposable camera? this guy did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CNEb30Egzw&feature=related
a 12 v battery source or less.  sparking can be controlled through magnetic pickups, with aftermarket ignitions such as the msd digital 6.
a  msd 40 thousand volt blaster ignition coil. a make shift distributor for timing, etc..
there are endless configurations ideas. use with a gas processor, uv, infra red,  or a 5000 Gauss field?
sharp points, smaller cc cylinders, or shaped. ventri tubes, wave guides, etc..
the cylinder shape is important, how about a diamond shape..   so have fun and go make a popper.

I love it when a plan comes together, cheers.
How about adding a dielectric to the mix? powdered glass, or quartz?  

Chan

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #572, on October 2nd, 2012, 07:27 AM »
Russ method:
1.  Create cloud ionized gas.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://yosemite.epa.gov/oaqps/eogtrain.nsf/b81bacb527b016d785256e4a004c0393/ca9ae17f9567495885256b66004e7985/%24FILE/12bles1.pdf&sa=U&ei=Y-pqUJO4OZOg8gTc84GAAw&ved=0CB8QFjAEOAo&sig2=H_6yT-AUypY8liVjIkp_5Q&usg=AFQjCNFnepMqFFU_jHRWrSzLvipQGlXYeA
This is well known phenomenon as shown above. Spark plugs fireing
continuously is my choice because of the Model T Ford coils I still have. My
first car was a 1927 Roadster with a rumble seat.
2.  Pulse large current through this cloud using capacitor discharge through
isolated circuit.
http://classified.ndntp.com/Images/2011/12000ufa.JPG
The image above is my preferred stock capacitor $60 ebay.
Chan

FaradayEZ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #573, on October 2nd, 2012, 09:14 AM »Last edited on October 2nd, 2012, 12:52 PM by FaradayEZ
Some questions came in mind during the last video of Russ..

-Was it heat, warming up the gas that made that the piston stayed at a higher point when pushed back? So was it the next morning at its original place?

-Have you done any preliminary calculations yet on if this effect is "costeffective yet?"

-Don't you think the piston will get higher if you make holes in the guiding plate? So that the air can escape at the non reaction side of the piston?

-If we make an engine, is it then possible to fill the non reaction side also with the mixture..so that leakage will be no problem cause it will leak in the usable mixture?

-Why do you think that dr.dr. does want to make an automated injection of new fuel system in his engines?  Is it that the gas will run out earlier then expected in papp's days?

-Are there no records of the old engine's... that they placed outside..in the sense off how long they ran?

-Have you had contact with Bob Rohner yet, and what does he think about the Hydrogen popper?







GordonFreeman

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #574, on October 2nd, 2012, 12:37 PM »
Russ, when you rewrapped your transformer did you keep the number of wraps the same? 20 wraps hv wire #14 primary, 10 wraps #14 hv wire secondary?  I'm ready to wrap my ferrite core. I've got a roll of neon wire 15,000v rated.