Quote from FaradayEZ on September 29th, 2012, 03:52 AM

On the use of microwave

A normal food microwave is tuned in for H2O and fat
see axil's link :

With the papp engine you don't want to get to high temperature's

But still a little excitement can be the help you need to get a reliable POP for each spark.

But that excitement must be tuned in for H2 then or for the frequency H2 needs to get its electrons in higher orbit.

So only a home build microwave or adjusted microwave that uses the right frequencies is the most effective.

And what about the question that a microwave shoots electrons? That's the opposite of what H2 (that should become 2H+) requires ?

You want to vibrate the electrons off of H2 not overflow them with e-

And Russ, that your test wasn't doing much can be explained by that the microwave is tuned for water and fat not for argon and h2 or other stuff

But before using extras you could still try to tune the high and low sparksides you use now. If you know the ownfrequency of H2..then compare it with your frequency and  devide the 2..if you get a whole number then your already a bit in the ballpark no?

EZ,

The frequncy of my high voltage Spark can be tuned, this is one good factor using my set up over the normal ignition coil...

My spark gap can tune the RC circuit and you are talking some real high frequncys... Yes, I talk about adjusting my spark gap in my video im converting now, that is what I am referring to even tho I don't elaborate on it...

In theory I can match and tune this circuit to match the 27.105 MHz...

We were using a magnotron from a microwave oven in this unit pictured on the link below to disassociate the water molecules... initially it didn't work... until we reversed the original polarity of the magnotron... then it worked... :shy:

HHO Unit - Click Here

All the best

ethospete

Quote from ethospete on September 29th, 2012, 05:50 AM

We were using a magnotron from a microwave oven in this unit pictured on the link below to disassociate the water molecules... initially it didn't work... until we reversed the original polarity of the magnotron... then it worked... :shy:

HHO Unit - Click Here

All the best

ethospete

So, how much electric power was put in the system and what was the volumeflow
of hydrogen you got out of it at the same time?
Or perhaps even more interesting would be to know if you got a hydrogen flame
up and running, how powerful was that as it burned compared to the electric power input?
Thanks.

Joe Papp demonstrating and filling his Anodes and Cathodes containers which we called "buckets". The materials loaded into the buckets are reactive in humid air and are loaded in a Nitrogen filled glove box donated by Mr. Mike Chaney from the Vicksburg Refinery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RCogLqsF3M

Quote from Lynx on September 29th, 2012, 07:21 AM

Quote from ethospete on September 29th, 2012, 05:50 AM

We were using a magnotron from a microwave oven in this unit pictured on the link below to disassociate the water molecules... initially it didn't work... until we reversed the original polarity of the magnotron... then it worked... :shy:

HHO Unit - Click Here

All the best

ethospete

So, how much electric power was put in the system and what was the volumeflow
of hydrogen you got out of it at the same time?
Or perhaps even more interesting would be to know if you got a hydrogen flame
up and running, how powerful was that as it burned compared to the electric power input?
Thanks.

This was a prototype unit in the early development and testing stages and after we reversed the polarity of the magnotron we got a 'nominal' gas output... the next stage was to build the cooling system which we believed would then dramatically increase the gas production.

After my meeting with Daniel Dingel in March 2008 all sorts of strange things started happening and by December 2008 my entire business had been destroyed and I was unfortunately, but very conveniently, left without any money to continue funding the project. So maybe we really were onto something..? Either way, I had obviously upset a few too many people by working on that project.  :s

I know we're off topic for this thread, but here's an interesting video I saw recently - See the increase in output when he pulls a vacuum on his Joe cell here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfcHGF7ZpeU

So maybe it could be worth trying pulling a vacuum on other HHO cells and see if it also increases gas production in the same way...

Quote from Babble on September 28th, 2012, 05:33 PM

Quote from k c dias on September 26th, 2012, 01:24 PM

Don't give up on the John popper just yet.  Today, I tested a 3 gas mix at 1/2 atmosphere, with the coils energized to 12V, one spark plug, and keying the cb manually.  While spinning the engine with an external drive at 5 rps, I could see a small flash in the chamber, and the SWR went down to 4 on channel #1 (still not a great SWR, but the best I have seen with air or argon and no coils)

I have work to do on sorting out my power supplies.  The controller board has a single 12V input, which feeds the 3 ignition coils and a 5V regulator for the MCU's.  I thought that large enough electrolytic caps on the 12V would keep the MCU's from freaking out, but with the one ign. coil, I am getting some misfires.  This means I am getting a miscount on the timing for the rotation.

The flywheel sensor wire is shielded twisted pair.  The controller is open, ie. not shielded.

I need to split the supply input to the board; one for the controller, and one for the ign. coils.  I also need to get the cb radio off of the supply I am using for the cylinder coils, so I can jack up the voltage on the cyl coils.  I am currently not gating the cb pulse nor the cylinder voltage, just running them both constant to look for any signs of life.  I saw a faint twinkle.

So, back to work for me.

kcd

KC, I'm not sure how they build ignition coils (if they have a snubber built in) but when you pulse a magnetic device it will create a flyback voltage that is reverse polarity.  A small air core coil in series with the positive lead and a 50V or greater diode across the + and - leads going to the coil might help.  The diode cathode should be on the +12V and anode on the negative return.  The coil would be in series with the + lead and between the diode and the controller.  Too much inductance will reduce the spark, so maybe 10 turns.   A second idea is to add a diode in series instead of the coil but keep the catch diode (across the line).

KC I forgot to add that when using electrolytic caps near a controller you should use low ESR types and then add a HF ceramic disc 1000pF as near to the power pins of a control device as you can.  This will bypass HF spikes that can be picked up.

Hydrogen To Plasma Will Do Mechanical Work??

This unit weighs 70lb + so the force is lifting all that weight when the piston goes up and tries to retract it lifts the rest of the unit with it. Off the table...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBWiWftGknI

Don't know why the first bit got messed up with the audio... Ah well. To much EMP! Lol

Enjoy, ~Russ

If you use basic "suvat" equations you can find what the initial velocity must be once the block leaves the piston. You can then use another "Suvat" equation (Vf=Vi+AT)applied to the acceleration the block must be undergoing due to the piston. That acceleration multiplied by the mass of the block (make sure your units are correct) will give you the force.
 That force multiplied by the distance the piston travels from rest to fully extended is the work the device is doing.

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on September 29th, 2012, 12:10 PM

Hydrogen To Plasma Will Do Mechanical Work??

This unit weighs 70lb + so the force is lifting all that weight when the piston goes up and tries to retract it lifts the rest of the unit with it. Off the table...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBWiWftGknI

Don't know why the first bit got messed up with the audio... Ah well. To much EMP! Lol

Enjoy, ~Russ

Awesome job Russ, your the man. :cool::D:P. Wonder if we could make one super capacitor to take the place of all the capacitors you are using, to do the same job.:cool::D:P

Brilliant work bro! I agree with you it's 'proof of concept'... and maybe even the proof of a new concept... lol

Keep up the great work and I look forward to the next update...

Bright Blessings...

ethospete...

 Russ,

 I am so glad I can finally talk to you.

 I have been following your work for quite some time and I think you are a very intelligent person who likes to do instead of theorize only.

 With that being said I would like to give my takes on this adventure you are embarking on.

 I think what you are doing is increasing the space between each molecule of hydrogen by using the voltage pulse wave of the spark gap. This is very ingenious. You are artificially increasing the space in between each atom without burning the gas because oxygen is not included in the gases in the chamber. I don't think heat alone is doing this. I think this is a voltage related phenomena as is the crystal effect allows piezoelectric interactions even with non solids. Lets say in the chamber there is a stacking of the atoms of the hydrogen. In their natural state they are close together and form a quasi crystal like structure. When you apply the High Voltage pulse it radiates through the structure reorienting them into a different stacking of the atoms. This stacking is only a larger spacing but it changes the volume of the gas when the pulse is propagating in the chamber. After the pulse ends in the walls of the chamber The structure falls back to the previous state Plus whatever heat was left over from the spark and plasma event.

 It is very interesting that you have found this effect with hydrogen. The effect was less prominent with the mixture of noble gasses because the crystal structure was too dynamic with such a high mixture of different particle sizes and base electrical states. That meant that as the crystalline structure of the mix of noble gases you previously used didn't net in much volume change because of the meshing of the different gases in the mix.

 One of my better thoughts on this is the effect of hydrogen on water and it's varying energy states and how it morphs in volume and even rigidity based on the energetic state that is applied to it. We know water has a crystalline state to it's base and you might have stumbled onto why water has this property. You could liken this to water going from liquid to steam states and the volume change that happens in that process. Excellent...

 John Bigness

Hello All,

I uploaded a video of a test of my version of the plasmerg popper:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRwPdYpTBs

The spark plug was firing and the noble gas is fresh.  My results are that the spark had no effect on the noble gas mixture, as listed on the "popper" sheet.

I hope someone has better luck than me.  I will not be doing any more testing on this configuration.  I will be hoping that Russ has more luck with the Bob Rohner type set up.

Chuck

Quote from jbignes5 on September 29th, 2012, 12:31 PM

Russ,

 I am so glad I can finally talk to you.

 I have been following your work for quite some time and I think you are a very intelligent person who likes to do instead of theorize only.

 With that being said I would like to give my takes on this adventure you are embarking on.

 I think what you are doing is increasing the space between each molecule of hydrogen by using the voltage pulse wave of the spark gap. This is very ingenious. You are artificially increasing the space in between each atom without burning the gas because oxygen is not included in the gases in the chamber. I don't think heat alone is doing this. I think this is a voltage related phenomena as is the crystal effect allows piezoelectric interactions even with non solids. Lets say in the chamber there is a stacking of the atoms of the hydrogen. In their natural state they are close together and form a quasi crystal like structure. When you apply the High Voltage pulse it radiates through the structure reorienting them into a different stacking of the atoms. This stacking is only a larger spacing but it changes the volume of the gas when the pulse is propagating in the chamber. After the pulse ends in the walls of the chamber The structure falls back to the previous state Plus whatever heat was left over from the spark and plasma event.

 It is very interesting that you have found this effect with hydrogen. The effect was less prominent with the mixture of noble gasses because the crystal structure was too dynamic with such a high mixture of different particle sizes and base electrical states. That meant that as the crystalline structure of the mix of noble gases you previously used didn't net in much volume change because of the meshing of the different gases in the mix.

 One of my better thoughts on this is the effect of hydrogen on water and it's varying energy states and how it morphs in volume and even rigidity based on the energetic state that is applied to it. We know water has a crystalline state to it's base and you might have stumbled onto why water has this property. You could liken this to water going from liquid to steam states and the volume change that happens in that process. Excellent...

 John Bigness

Thanks for posting on this John, your hypothesis make very good sense to me, Jeff. :cool::D:P

Quote from ethospete on September 29th, 2012, 07:23 AM

I know we're off topic for this thread, but here's an interesting video I saw recently - See the increase in output when he pulls a vacuum on his Joe cell here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfcHGF7ZpeU

So maybe it could be worth trying pulling a vacuum on other HHO cells and see if it also increases gas production in the same way...

My HHO favorite..: http://youtu.be/Lk1fFSkfSg4

Thanks.

 I was wondering if Russ could do an experiment to prove this effect. We know the expansion of the gas has power to it but does the collapse also have a certain power to it? Is it possible to turn the unit on it's side to see if the subsequent contraction of the gas has power to it?

 I say this because of the problem Russ showed in the earlier event. Maybe the collapse has a outpouring of electrical energy and this was the huge sparks across the caps that was shown and across his earlier relay.

Quote from zerwell on September 29th, 2012, 12:37 PM

Hello All,

I uploaded a video of a test of my version of the plasmerg popper:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRwPdYpTBs

The spark plug was firing and the noble gas is fresh.  My results are that the spark had no effect on the noble gas mixture, as listed on the "popper" sheet.

I hope someone has better luck than me.  I will not be doing any more testing on this configuration.  I will be hoping that Russ has more luck with the Bob Rohner type set up.

Chuck

Aaaww... never nice to see people conned..but yes, Russ had lately some success:
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=659&pid=8056#pid8056

Fresh Gas? LOL your funny :D

Quote from jbignes5 on September 29th, 2012, 01:00 PM

Thanks.

 I was wondering if Russ could do an experiment to prove this effect. We know the expansion of the gas has power to it but does the collapse also have a certain power to it? Is it possible to turn the unit on it's side to see if the subsequent contraction of the gas has power to it?

 I say this because of the problem Russ showed in the earlier event. Maybe the collapse has a outpouring of electrical energy and this was the huge sparks across the caps that was shown and across his earlier relay.

Hi Jbignes5,

You're right..the both strokes have power, see this video, the return (collapse) gives off electricity as also force from the vacuum.

Quote from zerwell on September 29th, 2012, 12:37 PM

Hello All,

I uploaded a video of a test of my version of the plasmerg popper:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRwPdYpTBs

The spark plug was firing and the noble gas is fresh.  My results are that the spark had no effect on the noble gas mixture, as listed on the "popper" sheet.

I hope someone has better luck than me.  I will not be doing any more testing on this configuration.  I will be hoping that Russ has more luck with the Bob Rohner type set up.

Chuck

I think the one difference between the two experiments is that Russ is using a capacitor discharge which is way faster then a regular flyback discharge. And more explosive.

Quote from Babble on September 29th, 2012, 11:44 AM

KC, I'm not sure how they build ignition coils (if they have a snubber built in) but when you pulse a magnetic device it will create a flyback voltage that is reverse polarity.  A small air core coil in series with the positive lead and a 50V or greater diode across the + and - leads going to the coil might help.  The diode cathode should be on the +12V and anode on the negative return.  The coil would be in series with the + lead and between the diode and the controller.  Too much inductance will reduce the spark, so maybe 10 turns.   A second idea is to add a diode in series instead of the coil but keep the catch diode (across the line).

KC I forgot to add that when using electrolytic caps near a controller you should use low ESR types and then add a HF ceramic disc 1000pF as near to the power pins of a control device as you can.  This will bypass HF spikes that can be picked up.

Babble,

Thanks for the help!  The driver that I am using (one per coil) is a ISL9V3040P3 EcoSPARK Ignition IGBT and has the diode built in, plus each driver has a 680uF electrolytic parked next tuit.  Also the coils have a capacitor built in, and the primary winding, cap and the conducting diode is what causes the primary circuit to 'ring' and produce multiple strikes when the voltage and current are removed from the primary.  Of course, the simple twin-lead I had run to the coil was radiating quite a mess of noise.  Switched to twisted shielded pair for all three coils, in addition to splitting the supplies fixed that problem.  The controller circuit has multiple ceramic decoupling caps (0.1 uF), one at each IC.  

I have tested with the above mods, still a no go.  Next, I just need to pay attention to the details, add the switching for the RF, and also for the top cylinder coil.  Just running 30 volts on the top cylinder coil is not enough, it needs to have a base voltage of 10 to 20 volts, then hammer it with 60 to 100 volts for about 25 to 30 degrees of rotation starting 10 to 15 degrees before TDC.  I plan on using the same driver as above, if it can handle the current.

And if that doesn't work, I'll brew up some hydrogen :)  
The J.R patent app does mention hydrogen, but only as an additive to the noble gas mix.  "..hydrogen may be used in the mixture if it is desired to speed up the reaction or generate additional power as may be the case with larger displacement engines and, of course, the lame ass popper kits I sold you guys"

Okay, I may have taken some liberties with the last part of that quote...

Anyway, RUSS!!  Great job with the hydrogen - of course you have to be wondering, what would happen if you used the 5 gas mix and spiked it with some hydrogen?
Yes?
Try it?

kcd

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 29th, 2012, 12:53 PM

My HHO favorite..: http://youtu.be/Lk1fFSkfSg4

Excellent, mine's this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKwwZNSGe_w

0 to 50 litres per minute! Awesome output... and that's more than enough to drive any car... :D

Quote from ethospete on September 29th, 2012, 01:32 PM

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 29th, 2012, 12:53 PM

My HHO favorite..: http://youtu.be/Lk1fFSkfSg4

Excellent, mine's this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKwwZNSGe_w

0 to 50 litres per minute! Awesome output... and that's more than enough to drive any car... :D

True..and grrr..i can't top that video..;)

But still..how are the calculations on input and output? When is producing HHO to run your car really cheaper then the amount of electricity it costs?

No, only a spreadsheet will do..LOL

Quote from jbignes5 on September 29th, 2012, 01:29 PM

Please let people have some privacy ....

Quote from k c dias on September 29th, 2012, 01:29 PM

as may be the case with larger displacement engines
and, of course, the lame ***** popper kits I sold you guys

ROTFLOL  :D

privacy. It was on his video.. All I did was look at his profile in linkedin which is public.

Maybe the ABHA transformer would be interesting for this? For current / HV / heat control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf2txI1fMZY&feature=plcp

In video #11, Russ said that the piston only rises up 4 inches out of the 6 total inches of cylinder displacement.

The gas on the inside face (the hydrogen side) of the piston, the side where the electrodes are located and where the gas expands is the volume into which the spark discharges.

The gas on the outside side of the piston is air. When the piston rises, the air will be rapidly compressed since the seal on the rod is tight. In that short timeframe, the air cannot escape rapidly enough from the top of the cylinder to avoid air compression. This volume of air will be compressed and when the pressure of the hydrogen and the air are equal, the piston will stop its rise.

This resistive air pressure due to the compression of the air by the top of the piston is the reason why the piston does not travel up the entire 6 inch cylinder displacement length.

This air column serves as a spring to return the piston most of the way down during the relaxation of the compression process; but not all the way down because a small amount of air will have escaped through the rod seal.

Hmmm...

I saw video 11 and the increased power output with hydrogen.
It made me think.

Hydrogen is the smallest atom we now.
With the least amount of electrons per atom.

So in theory, in a plasma enviroment hydrogen atoms are the easiest to strip from their electrons.
This is why you got a good reaction, even without ionizing the gas.

Then what happens is that after the plasma reaction, electrons want to fall back into the orbit of the atom...
But in the time, the hydrogen atoms were stripped of their electrons, they're cores of the hydrogen didn't repel each other, because the repelling happens due to the electrons that are negatively charged. (like magnets repelling the same charge)
Without the electrons ( in a plasma state) all atoms are neutral, but stil move and so can collide with other atoms.

So some of the hydrogen atoms without the electrons where so near to each other, that after the plasma state they formed a new atom.
Helium.
So, within this new state, the helium atoms had to get electrons from the surrounding. This  made the whole device into an electron sucking machine, causing a differential voltage. That is why you had the voltage kick back.
That is why the pressure in the device increases, because the atoms form Helium, and this is a "bigger" gas.
Stil the reaction can continue, because just a few hydrogen atoms reconbined into Helium AND also the helium can be totally stripped of its electrons, giving the oppertunity to form even bigger atoms.
I am not surprised is you find a lot of elements in the gas after the plasma trials.

Go On , you truly are a pioneer !

Hi Russ,

As suggested,  definitely leaving a comment here vs. youtube.
Great work! with your recent upload.
Thank you for all you do and the time you put into this.

I believe we're seeing the beginnings of a new engine config.

Look forward to your future tests with other gases or a combination thereof.

Please let me know if you need a new meter maybe I can assist? in that direction.

Blesssings...

Quote from Axil on September 29th, 2012, 03:18 PM

In video #11, Russ said that the piston only rises up 4 inches out of the 6 total inches of cylinder displacement.

The gas on the inside face (the hydrogen side) of the piston, the side where the electrodes are located and where the gas expands is the volume into which the spark discharges.

The gas on the outside side of the piston is air. When the piston rises, the air will be rapidly compressed since the seal on the rod is tight. In that short timeframe, the air cannot escape rapidly enough from the top of the cylinder to avoid air compression. This volume of air will be compressed and when the pressure of the hydrogen and the air are equal, the piston will stop its rise.

This resistive air pressure due to the compression of the air by the top of the piston is the reason why the piston does not travel up the entire 6 inch cylinder displacement length.

This air column serves as a spring to return the piston most of the way down during the relaxation of the compression process; but not all the way down because a small amount of air will have escaped through the rod seal.

Hmm again smart thinking Axil!!

And Bob's piston doesn't go further also, so they should make holes around where the shaft is held centered.

I'm curious if the power is enough and in the ballpark where the noble gas engine was acting..

Fun time's :)