https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLQvynogHUA&feature=youtube_gdata_player


I love live shows! Lol went well. Enjoy!

Also, watch closely. You will see a green glow in the cup... Strange things in there. The HD footage I will get to you soon. Strange green glow in the cup for a short time after I fire it...??? Odd... It's plasma. That's for sure.

Ps the cup had a seal prob and more testing needs to be done!

It was "hissing" after I fired it. Like it built up presure and slowley came back to normail... So odd. Strange strange.

Enjoy. I'm on some where around 50 min in.

~Russ

Here's your pat on the back ;)

theses photos are taken from a 60FPs shot

now remember when i did the slow frame by frame on the discharge in air it went for about one or 2 frames and that was the end of it except for some sparks...

well check this out. what is that nice green glow? this is the 99.999% pure helium

download them and view them in order...

please note that the top of the cup looks to be glowing... i think that is the light from the curve of the cup...

the gas is ionized and is glowing beyond the "normal" off time as we have charged it so high so fast... its acting like a capacitor for ionization???

[attachment=2452]
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that is cool...

now we are learning...

now i got to get the spark gap in the frame so i can see if the electrodes are discharging and that is where the color is or what...

ether way if this is acting like a "ionization capacitor" then that's where our return kick back may come from???  none the less the nice green glow is odd. i like it :) lol

~Russ

Quote from symanuk on October 12th, 2012, 12:10 AM

Here's your pat on the back ;)

Lol and here's your thank you! ;) blessings bro! ~Russ

Russ

Could the green glow be from the green Christmas Tree ?

Maybe a clear glass would be better for checking color.

element 119

Quote from element 119 on October 12th, 2012, 05:21 AM

Russ

Could the green glow be from the green Christmas Tree ?

Maybe a clear glass would be better for checking color.

element 119

That's a good thought. But the Christmas tree is on the outside of the glass. And it's a totally different green. But it could play a role and what I'll do is just remove it from the glass. I do not think I have a different glass that fits that well. I will try the experiments with a different glass and see what happens!

;) ~Russ

 It could be acting the same way phosphorus does and makes the color glow for certain way...???

The spectral line of oxigen.



The green light may have come from leakage of air into the glass after a few pops as a vacuum or low pressure develops when the plasma collapses.


Russ states he did hear leakage around the glass. It does not take much air leakage to show Aurora lights. The density of air at high altitude is low.



The spectral color that air will produce is based on how much pressure  that the air is under. Higher pressure shows the emissions as green and lower air pressures shows as red.

Russ’s popper experimentation has shown some useful engineering details regarding systems that use arching in a hydrogen atmosphere.

 

The popper will become contaminated with tungsten powder after a relatively small number of arc discharges are done by Thoriated Tungsten Electrodes at high pulsed voltage.

 

One theory about the cause of this tungsten erosion is that very high temperatures produced on the surface of the tungsten electrode vaporize the metal.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDwQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tandfonline.com%2Fdoi%2Fabs%2F10.1080%2F09507119209548203&ei=NWZ4UP_wI4_h0wHv7ICYBA&usg=AFQjCNFpzc-m6JddiXhQuTpwzh7UcZ7tPA&sig2=XNBN7NejJpiSQjFHs65oIg
 
 

 

But Russ’s experiments speak against this theory because no erosion of the tungsten electrodes occurs when the arc happens in a helium envelope.

 

There must be some other mechanism going on where hydrogen blows off or chemically alters the tungsten during electrode arcing.

 
 
This popper testing has value for other like systems.

 

In energy systems like those being developed by DGT, this electrode contamination could be an issue in regards to the life of spark plugs running in hydrogen over a long period of time.

 

First the spark plugs will have a greatly reduced service life, and second, the electrode metal will contaminate the catalytic processes inside the reactor as more and more erosion occurs.  




 
 
 

Russ, great job on the live demo and now I understand your setup much better.  I think if you lived a 140 years ago your name might have been Edison. :-)

Quote

But Russ’s experiments speak against this theory because no erosion of the tungsten electrodes occurs when the arc happens in a helium envelope.

The eletrods do show signs of wear. So this still could be an option. I don't get the strong black residue with He. That's. Plus.

I just like how it lasts for a while.. That's the interesting part. The reasion I say that is If the gasses stay ionized for a period of time. This means in an Engen application the high voltage may be able to keep it going and I won't need a strong discharge to "kick start it"

This is why a motor application is important...

Think about it.

~Russ

The reasion I say this is I hit the button twice and it had a nice discharge with less cap discharge power...

More testing needed...

Russ said:

Quote

The electrodes do show signs of wear. So this still could be an option. I don't get the strong black residue with He.

The question I have is, where does the tungsten go? If the tungsten does not cover the walls of the popper, it could be re-depositing on the tungsten and moving around on the electrode; It could be vaporized and suspended in the helium gas. If this is true, like welding fumes, these vapors are dangerous.

Russ said:

Quote

I just like how it lasts for a while.. That's the interesting part. The reason I say that is If the gasses stay ionized for a period of time. This means in an Engine application the high voltage may be able to keep it going and I won't need a strong discharge to "kick start it"

This is an important insight. If this is true, there is no need for RF or another source of external ionization to keep the spark gap prepared to receive the next spark. The requirement for spark gap ionization is simply that the next spark discharge needs to happen before the ionization fades.

Some experimental questions as follows:

Hydrogen vs. helium vs. noble gas mix, does this residual  ionization from the last shot last longer in some gas(s) as opposed to others?

Russ said:

Quote

The reason I say this is I hit the button twice and it had a nice discharge with less cap discharge power...

This means that all this hand-waving in the Papp patent about radiation and the use of RF to excite the gas we hear from John Rohner is malarkey (nonsense).
   

Quote from Axil on October 12th, 2012, 10:14 PM

Russ said:

Quote

The reason I say this is I hit the button twice and it had a nice discharge with less cap discharge power...

This means that all this hand-waving in the Papp patent about radiation and the use of RF to excite the gas we hear from John Rohner is malarkey (nonsense).

what i was saying here is that if the energy level is high enough already then we may  be good to use less energy?

so if we use RF or radiation to preeionize the gasses then its a good thing and makes scene?

i think i missed something? lol

also, i can only get this to work on 2 "pops" ... never 3 times... so i can not fire it with less energy more than once after the first full pop... not sure why. may just be the caps discharging one last time?


i did some more testing. ( with a new different glass with no markings on the outside... ) still got a nice green glow. no air leek...

whats the spectrum of Tungsten and thorium?
http://student.fizika.org/~nnctc/spectra.htm
there is defiantly a "residue" of some type of "vapor" in the chamber...

strange thing is that even the first time i fired it it still had a nice green glow... so if it is the "vapor" then its happens all at once... and not really factor of the vapor from the past times.

ill post some photos...

~Russ

On the green afterglow...

Maybe it stays ionized because it has no way to release itself in a backcurrentpath?

If you look at the sabori video and the glowings there...(also green mentioned)  how many frame's of video do they have filled with afterglow? And where they capturing the backcurrent already?

That you only get it twice and not 3 times, may come from that the voltage from the capacitors drops below a point where it doesn't trigger the gas anymore?
It discharges in 2 goes and after that it has to recharge to a high enough voltage?

Sow what if you start to use this backcurrent... then maybe you can rapid fire the piston with its full 3 inch amplitude and power?

What kind of test can we get out of these reflections?

Quote from FaradayEZ on October 13th, 2012, 03:08 AM

That you only get it twice and not 3 times, may come from that the voltage from the capacitors drops below a point where it doesn't trigger the gas anymore?
It discharges in 2 goes and after that it has to recharge to a high enough voltage?

yeah but if i wait longer than a second or so it wont fire... so it has something to do with the gas still being ionized???

I have attached the 60FPS stills I took yesterday. This is (aprox 800ml) glass vase.

now the " fire and hold" folder was me holding the button till i got 2 fires. you can see that some times it took 1 frame and some times it took 10 frames ???

i can tell you that when it fires and I'm holding it it will stop the high voltage as the core of my transformer is saturated and it needs a sec to recover... so that plays a factor in the timing of the second fire.

now. there is fragments flying off the electrodes some times there is not but when it dose... it dose some strange stuff...

NOW. i don't know if the photos below are showing a magnetic field of the plasma "pulling" the hot fragment balls around it but whatever happened its strange... :) enjoy! :)

this is fire and hold 6

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good times... through some thoughts out there. :)

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 13th, 2012, 03:31 AM

Quote from FaradayEZ on October 13th, 2012, 03:08 AM

That you only get it twice and not 3 times, may come from that the voltage from the capacitors drops below a point where it doesn't trigger the gas anymore?
It discharges in 2 goes and after that it has to recharge to a high enough voltage?

yeah but if i wait longer than a second or so it wont fire... so it has something to do with the gas still being ionized???

Yeas, sounds reasonable. The more time elapses the more juice you need to get it up again. So thinking about this side of the  popper... can we quicken it like in a 2 stroke 1 piston engine?  


I have attached the 60FPS stills I took yesterday. This is (aprox 800ml) glass vase.

now the " fire and hold" folder was me holding the button till i got 2 fires. you can see that some times it took 1 frame and some times it took 10 frames ???

Hmm after the second burst there seems to be no green glow anymore?


i can tell you that when it fires and I'm holding it it will stop the high voltage as the core of my transformer is saturated and it needs a sec to recover... so that plays a factor in the timing of the second fire.

so a test could be to place another power input on the system?


now. there is fragments flying off the electrodes some times there is not but when it dose... it dose some strange stuff...

Yeah, i think thats metallic leftovers, or something, but not really important to the main stuff


NOW. i don't know if the photos below are showing a magnetic field of the plasma "pulling" the hot fragment balls around it but whatever happened its strange... :) enjoy! :)

this is fire and hold 6





good times... through some thoughts out there. :)

~Russ

Quote from FaradayEZ on October 13th, 2012, 04:35 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 13th, 2012, 03:31 AM

Quote from FaradayEZ on October 13th, 2012, 03:08 AM

Hmm after the second burst there seems to be no green glow anymore?

Yes, for got to mention it... This is why I say te second pop is from the pree ionized gasses... Lower input power and still a pop...

So pree ionizing the gasses or keeping them excited till the next pop is inportant to efficiency...

~Russ  

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 13th, 2012, 05:46 AM

Quote from FaradayEZ on October 13th, 2012, 04:35 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 13th, 2012, 03:31 AM

Quote from FaradayEZ on October 13th, 2012, 03:08 AM

Hmm after the second burst there seems to be no green glow anymore?

Yes, for got to mention it... This is why I say te second pop is from the pree ionized gasses... Lower input power and still a pop...

So pree ionizing the gasses or keeping them excited till the next pop is inportant to efficiency...

~Russ

Yeps... it is important.. and it would be also interesting to know where the piston would be at the green glow time.. maybe if we compare video timing.

Cause if the piston is down enough then the second pop has some way to go.

Hmmm... well we don't know if the green stuff in the glass will be also there in the cylinder..it could be related to pressure's.

But if there is any energy in the green glow.. then capturing it in the form of electricity..makes it easier to time yourself when to use it again and how.

The first POP uses an overkill and lets a residu stay ionized for the second pop. Which doesn't leave a glow anymore.
The difference in input energy between first and second pop could be the amount of ionisation energy needed?
But then you still use the full amount..hmmm

Some trial and error with external ionisation methodes is in order... finding the ones where the inputspark can be lowered.

And the energyefficient one's among them are the one's that use some side of resonance in the system... but that's a no brainer..lol

And if you find that way of ionization, then you could speed up the rpm's of the engine.

Hi I have not read the latest posts, i am saving to last so i can savor it. lol

I was doing more investigations, and again i am directed to several patents, and descriptions. below is only 2 files. they describe very well what takes place during the process of plasma.  I think its a good idea we all read them again they may have more meaning, and may also clarify existing problems, or relations of the process.

i like to emphasize Maxwell when he tells us of a display of rarefied gas at very very low amounts of volume. he describes the orange colors. and if you read this we find our first reference to the plasma tron, and its function.. that is the function of these waves to show up in the identical manner displayed by the original plasma tron. with discs of light,and dark areas in the plasma is propagating, and by adding more voltage renders a increase in the number of light and dark spacings. take a look at these examples..

Has Russ finally discovered the ever elusive Kryptonite...?


It sure looks very similar to me...  :)

I have made a a schematic of a dual capacitor bank system which should be similar to your present setup.  This will use a latching relay that will change to an alternate capacitor bank with each firing shot.  You will need to find the smallest amount of capacitance that can fire the plasma and use that for each bank.  The caps should be rated at 350 to 400 VDC as you do now.  The isolation diodes should probably be rated for at least 20 A and 600 VDC, they should be fast recovery type or better and they may require heat sinking for repetitive firing.
I show a resistor in series with the bridge rectified output, just use whatever you have now.  I believe the ferrite core goes into saturation at each firing because this changes it from an inductor to a low impedance for the LV discharge.  If it does not saturate you would have a much slower current rise.  If the core gets a gap in it (which you have noticed on occasion) it doesn't saturate and will prevent discharge of the LV caps.   I think a core reset will occur during the relay switch time.  

If you decide to make a faster system then this is worth a try.

Subject: The green glow

Nether tungsten nor helium will produce a green glow under normal conditions.

Tungsten produces light at so many different wavelengths, it is considered to produce white light, because it has so many electrons in many different orbitals.

Helium does have one green spectral line but that line is medium compared to the yellow line.


   
Helium wavelengths (nm)
438.793 w
443.755 w
447.148 s
471.314 m
492.193 m
501.567 s
504.774 w
587.562 s
667.815 m



s=strong, m=med,
w=weak

 http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/atspect.html
 
I still believe that some small amount of residual air is in the cylinder at very low pressure. The vacuum pump must not be clearing out all the air. Some small amount of air is in the tube to cause the green glow.

To test this idea, run a test with a vacuum only spark discharge.  
 

Quote from Axil on October 13th, 2012, 01:39 PM

Subject: The green glow

Nether tungsten nor helium will produce a green glow under normal conditions.

Tungsten produces light at so many different wavelengths, it is considered to produce white light, because it has so many electrons in many different orbitals.

Helium does have one green spectral line but that line is medium compared to the yellow line.


   
Helium wavelengths (nm)
438.793 w
443.755 w
447.148 s
471.314 m
492.193 m
501.567 s
504.774 w
587.562 s
667.815 m



s=strong, m=med,
w=weak

 http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/atspect.html
 
I still believe that some small amount of residual air is in the cylinder at very low pressure. The vacuum pump must not be clearing out all the air. Some small amount of air is in the tube to cause the green glow.

To test this idea, run a test with a vacuum only spark discharge.

I tend to agree about the air lingering in the cylinder Axil, to pull a good vacuum, you must leave the pump on for at least one hour. If it's a high humidity day, you would also need to raise the temperature of  the vessel you are pulling a vacuum on, this helps tremendously in removing any moisture. You would need a true vacuum pump as well.:D

Quote from Axil on October 13th, 2012, 01:39 PM

Helium does have one green spectral line but that line is medium compared to the yellow line.

So at that wavelength we should ionize helium... if its not No2 doing it

Quote from Jeff Nading on October 13th, 2012, 03:00 PM

I tend to agree about the air lingering in the cylinder Axil, to pull a good vacuum, you must leave the pump on for at least one hour. If it's a high humidity day, you would also need to raise the temperature of  the vessel you are pulling a vacuum on, this helps tremendously in removing any moisture. You would need a true vacuum pump as well.:D

It is easier to vacuum, put helium in..vacuum again, put helium in, vacuum again.. and put helium in for the last time.
Changes of any left air become fastly smaller, especially when you put the exhaust at the lowest point.

Quote

So at that wavelength we should ionize helium... if its not No2 doing it

The high energy spark discharge between the electrode gap will provide electrons with just about every energy level.

This energy burst will include energetic electrons that will exactly match those necessary to excite helium or any gas or any combinations of gases.

I tend to agree about the air lingering in the cylinder Axil, to pull a good vacuum, you must leave the pump on for at least one hour. If it's a high humidity day, you would also need to raise the temperature of  the vessel you are pulling a vacuum on, this helps tremendously in removing any moisture. You would need a true vacuum pump as well.:D Jeff



It is easier to vacuum, put helium in..vacuum again, put helium in, vacuum again.. and put helium in for the last time. EZ

This would be a real waste of very expensive helium gas.Jeff

Changes of any left air become fastly smaller, especially when you put the exhaust at the lowest point. EZ


"Any moisture" would vastly effect the results of testing, so it's better to pull a good vacuum the correct way, as I suggest. Water will boil or turn to steam at lower pressures and heating the vessel only helps in the process. Years of experience on my part would agree.:D Jeff