hello guys,


well you know that hydrogen cylinder i have laying around... well i filled up the popper and fired it away...

some fine results... im not sure just yet what was going on but one thing's for sure... i was seeing the " plasma transition"  or something...

The table would move and you could hear the power moving the piston with some force.
watching the last tests in air and also in the inert gasses there was a big difference. the piston would go about 3" or so. much further than even in air and with more force. ( could see the table jump some)

and no I'm not burning this with air... this is just H. it should not be consumed if there is no air... ( plasma is forming weather or not the H is being consumed i can fire it more than once. got 5 times out of it but had some strange stuff happen)

i did also have some strange things happen twice when i was testing...

the same thing happened... on the relay there is neon, after 3 fires the neon flashed bright green and blew out some of my diodes... the only way that couls have happened is that the charge went back in to my transformer and back in to my 120v relay ??? this makes no seance, but if we have a Hugh kick back from the plasma  then this makes sense... very strange and is wroth noteing...

here is what the H looks like with just the high voltage applied, this was under a vacuum.  

[attachment=2309]

here is 1atm ( or close) when i fire it.

[attachment=2310]

more stesing...

i'm starting to see the power that this has and am excited to see these results. will be trying argon soon and helium also,

also, mike, here is the balun i build be for i was asking for help (directly) about RF. but i don't know how to determine the proper results... guess i will need some meters...

[attachment=2311]

thanks guys for all the help and thoughts.

did i here the quote was  " read the patents" lol DOOOOOO ITTTTTTTTTT


i have also attached a short clip with 3 pops... compare it frame by frame and you will see the center of the table move and everything else on it... if i had this bolted to a table like bob it would be jumping. i have rubber feet and it takes most the force. watch close and you can see that.
sorry if you can not play it VLC player will but its not smoth?

PS VLC Player will play it: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html

OR windows 7 should play it.

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on September 27th, 2012, 11:02 PM

hello guys,


well you know that hydrogen cylinder i have laying around... well i filled up the popper and fired it away...

some fine results... im not sure just yet what was going on but one thing's for sure... i was seeing the " plasma transition"  or something...

The table would move and you could hear the power moving the piston with some force.
watching the last tests in air and also in the inert gasses there was a big difference. the piston would go about 3" or so. much further than even in air and with more force. ( could see the table jump some)

and no I'm not burning this with air... this is just H. it should not be consumed if there is no air... ( plasma is forming weather or not the H is being consumed i can fire it more than once. got 5 times out of it but had some strange stuff happen)

i did also have some strange things happen twice when i was testing...

the same thing happened... on the relay there is neon, after 3 fires the neon flashed bright green and blew out some of my diodes... the only way that couls have happened is that the charge went back in to my transformer and back in to my 120v relay ??? this makes no seance, but if we have a Hugh kick back from the plasma  then this makes sense... very strange and is wroth noteing...

here is what the H looks like with just the high voltage applied, this was under a vacuum.  



here is 1atm ( or close) when i fire it.



more stesing...

i'm starting to see the power that this has and am excited to see these results. will be trying argon soon and helium also,

also, mike, here is the balun i build be for i was asking for help (directly) about RF. but i don't know how to determine the proper results... guess i will need some meters...



thanks guys for all the help and thoughts.

did i here the quote was  " read the patents" lol DOOOOOO ITTTTTTTTTT


i have also attached a short clip with 3 pops... compare it frame by frame and you will see the center of the table move and everything else on it... if i had this bolted to a table like bob it would be jumping. i have rubber feet and it takes most the force. watch close and you can see that.
sorry if you can not play it VLC player will but its not smoth?

PS VLC Player will play it: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html

OR windows 7 should play it.

Haha!! Promising..the first real power and such! Congratz! And even current flowing back, wow nice :)

And after 5 times you had to redo the gas or needle a bit more in?

But the length of the stroke is the same as with Robert now..in the 3pop video the second one goes the highest (the first one isn't visible, only audio)

And also that you get a stroke with almost 1 shot of spark is also remarkable... see how long they sparked before

@Russ

Quote

i was seeing the " plasma transition" or something...

Congratulations… you have an original discovery here. John R said he tried hydrogen and he could not get it to work. It must be your unique spark setup that is doing the trick.

If you can get the popper to work with hydrogen, that is way better than noble gases. Noble gases are a pain in the butt and expensive to boot.

To be safe, you really should check for radiation coming from the hydrogen plasma.
That would be gamma rays getting through the metal walls of the popper.

Quote

but i don't know how to determine the proper results... guess i will need some meters...

Using DC current only, not RF,  one inexpensive way to get some data about the coil is as follows: if you have some fine iron filings laying around, you can visualize the magnetic field produced by the coil using the dusting method. I am certain you have done this before for seeing the magnetic field lines produced by a magnet.

Remember, the only thing that is important is the RF field produced inside the coil. IMO, the RF field that is inside the coil is all that matters. That is where the plasma starts to form, that is, in between the electrodes. The spark should travel through the center of the hole in the coil, perpendicular to the plane of the coil. This should ionize the gas in the plasma channel. No need for radioactive stuff.

See this example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Gdm_OXKz4&feature=endscreen

You should see this

Quote

the same thing happened... on the relay there is neon, after 3 fires the neon flashed bright green and blew out some of my diodes... the only way that couls have happened is that the charge went back in to my transformer and back in to my 120v relay ??? this makes no seance, but if we have a Hugh kick back from the plasma then this makes sense... very strange and is wroth noteing...

Bob R uses a capacitor with a small discharge motor hooked to it to show the discharge current produced during plasma relaxation as well as to discharge the capacitor. Can you do the same?

Bob must have some sort of one way circuit to keep the feedback pulse away from his input side.

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 27th, 2012, 11:59 PM

And after 5 times you had to redo the gas or needle a bit more in?

no, its just that i had to keep replacing diodes and fuses! lol ran out of time... but it seemed like the gas was taking on a charge? and then after 3-4 times it would " back fire" in to my system and pop my diodes.

Quote

But the length of the stroke is the same as with Robert now..in the 3pop video the second one goes the highest (the first one isn't visible, only audio)

try converting the file and it may work...

Quote

And also that you get a stroke with almost 1 shot of spark is also remarkable... see how long they sparked before

some times it will take some time before it will pop... (highvoltage would spark and it looked like it "built up charge" then fire...)  not sure if i'm having some probs or if its just the way it is... only had about 30 min to play with it so i will do more testing soon... :) and make a real video...

Quote from Axil on September 28th, 2012, 12:06 AM

@Russ

Quote

i was seeing the " plasma transition" or something...

Congratulations… you have an original discovery here. John R said he tried hydrogen and he could not get it to work. It must be your unique spark setup that is doing the trick.

we can call it a "re-discovery" lol  im sure some one has gotten it to work! lol

Quote

If you can get the popper to work with hydrogen, that is way better than noble gases. Noble gases are a pain in the butt and expensive to boot.

yeah, i think the noble gasses are important for reasons unknown to detail at this time, one we do know it there should be no chemical change and the gas should not change much... with H the gas may be undergoing some change we don't know... more testing and long runs will be needed...

Quote

To be safe, you really should check for radiation coming from the hydrogen plasma.
That would be gamma rays getting through the metal walls of the popper.

agreed, i will work on measuring devices for that... i should see some dots on the CCD imager if it was??

Quote

Using DC current only, not RF,  one inexpensive way to get some data about the coil is as follows: if you have some fine iron filings laying around, you can visualize the magnetic field produced by the coil using the dusting method. I am certain you have done this before for seeing the magnetic field lines produced by a magnet.

Remember, the only thing that is important is the RF field produced inside the coil. IMO, the RF field that is inside the coil is all that matters. That is where the plasma starts to form, that is, in between the electrodes. The spark should travel through the center of the hole in the coil, perpendicular to the plane of the coil. This should ionize the gas in the plasma channel. No need for radioactive stuff.

See this example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Gdm_OXKz4&feature=endscreen

You should see this

i need to do more research on fully understanding the RF antenna. i know what needs to be done just don't have the full nonage bank to "whip it up" lol

Quote

Quote

the same thing happened... on the relay there is neon, after 3 fires the neon flashed bright green and blew out some of my diodes... the only way that couls have happened is that the charge went back in to my transformer and back in to my 120v relay ??? this makes no seance, but if we have a Hugh kick back from the plasma then this makes sense... very strange and is wroth noteing...

Bob R uses a capacitor with a small discharge motor hooked to it to show the discharge current produced during plasma relaxation as well as to discharge the capacitor. Can you do the same?

Bob must have some sort of one way circuit to keep the feedback pulse away from his input side.

well, i did not have anything connected to the buckets... i think when i was firing the " auto recharge" was off... then after about 3 times i had left it on to test it and that's when it " back fired" hence the reason it only " back fired" the last time...

the same on the second run... will need to test that to confirm.

the thing is is if this was jumping my relay gap... then we have some high voltage back feed. i will just need to do some more testing to see what is going on...

axil, i also wanted to say thanks for your wonder full input here as your posts have been helpful on some points of interest.

thanks! ~Russ
 

Hi Russ
If you have got this to work on H,then you have just made something that most could afford to replicate.
Now it dose make sence with the back spike being high in a way-as we know,the hydrogen atom is very powerful.So who know's what you have done to that atom when passing a high voltage and current through it,while in a plasma state???

I think apon this discovery,you should defently do a lot more testing useing hydrogen.
This could be one of those time's you found something while looking for something else.
Great job mate

Excellent work Russ, early days but very exciting direction things are taking.  If you are able to recover a majority of the electrical energy from the system on the plasma collapse then you are effectively creating mechanical work almost for free.  Making it work with hydrogen alone is an excellent achievement.  All of the above combined has some excellent potential.

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on September 27th, 2012, 11:02 PM

hello guys,


well you know that hydrogen cylinder i have laying around... well i filled up the popper and fired it away...

some fine results... im not sure just yet what was going on but one thing's for sure... i was seeing the " plasma transition"  or something...

The table would move and you could hear the power moving the piston with some force.
watching the last tests in air and also in the inert gasses there was a big difference. the piston would go about 3" or so. much further than even in air and with more force. ( could see the table jump some)

and no I'm not burning this with air... this is just H. it should not be consumed if there is no air... ( plasma is forming weather or not the H is being consumed i can fire it more than once. got 5 times out of it but had some strange stuff happen)

i did also have some strange things happen twice when i was testing...

the same thing happened... on the relay there is neon, after 3 fires the neon flashed bright green and blew out some of my diodes... the only way that couls have happened is that the charge went back in to my transformer and back in to my 120v relay ??? this makes no seance, but if we have a Hugh kick back from the plasma  then this makes sense... very strange and is wroth noteing...

here is what the H looks like with just the high voltage applied, this was under a vacuum.  



here is 1atm ( or close) when i fire it.



more stesing...

i'm starting to see the power that this has and am excited to see these results. will be trying argon soon and helium also,

also, mike, here is the balun i build be for i was asking for help (directly) about RF. but i don't know how to determine the proper results... guess i will need some meters...



thanks guys for all the help and thoughts.

did i here the quote was  " read the patents" lol DOOOOOO ITTTTTTTTTT


i have also attached a short clip with 3 pops... compare it frame by frame and you will see the center of the table move and everything else on it... if i had this bolted to a table like bob it would be jumping. i have rubber feet and it takes most the force. watch close and you can see that.
sorry if you can not play it VLC player will but its not smoth?

PS VLC Player will play it: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html

OR windows 7 should play it.

wow Russ, when i saw the first picture, i said that looks like the sun.
you can see the rays, and you could even see it has a magnetic alignment.

I am guessing this may have its place for learning even more about the sun, and how the corona effects the all around energy spikes during a intense UV  burst..

i wonder what it would look like through a red filter:dodgy:


Multiple capacitive spark discharge.  Is that what we are seeing in the movie you made?

.Gratz Russ. :) Dirac tickling ahahha.

plasma state. possible solution.

Hall effect thruster

HHO GUN... all the pieces are falling in place.

after thought, it was said plasma may get additional induced charge.
the coil would indeed induces a charge in the plasma. not necessarily a containment field, but a way to induce charge upon the plasma expanse. still thinking.

You may try a coil that fires at the same time as the spark perhaps, or slightly later :cool:

Wow, what a wonderful discovery you have made Russ. I know other's might have done this in a laboratory deep underground somewhere, NOT KNOWN TO ANYONE. But you have given and made this known to all the world to see. IT IS POSSIBLE, when people come together and work toward a common goal. I congratulate you and all who made this possible and support you fully in your next and upcoming discoveries which I have full confidence there will be. This forum and our sister forum I.A.E.C. with Tinman are good places to be, thanks to all, Jeff.:cool::D:P

Quote from Jeff Nading on September 28th, 2012, 07:38 AM

This forum and our sister forum I.A.E.C. with Tinman are good places to be, thanks to all, Jeff.:cool::D:P

Thanks, I just registered over there :D

BRILLIANT!! Well done again my friend... even more interesting and I look forward to the next video impatiently... ;)

Also, from my old CB days, many moons ago, I remember we used to use a SWR Meter to tune our antennas so maybe one could be useful here too..?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWR_meter

The SWR meter or VSWR (voltage standing wave ratio) meter measures the standing wave ratio in a transmission line. The meter can be used to indicate the degree of mismatch between a transmission line and its load (usually a radio antenna), or evaluate the effectiveness of impedance matching efforts.

also see -  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antenna_analyzer

which measures the actual efficiency as opposed to the miss-match...

Good Luck!

ethosete...

Congratulations Russ.
Wonderful job, I really see that collaborative work without wasting energy in patents will the future way to develop the world.
:)

:rolleyes:  I keep smiling about this Russ...

It looks like the duck and kwaks etc. so this must be the duck...and caught with some shoo strings!!

look at  http://rohnerengineering.com/docs.html and see how many millions where needed? to bring this to market.

Sure we are not there yet...but i think a little celebration is in order! So take your kids and wife to your favorite local esthablisment and let me pickup the tab, ok?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now its time to:

fix the return current
find out why H2 reacts to your low and high spark and then maybe fine-tune it
so that it fires every stroke
find out if the H2 can stay a long run or if it depleeds

etc.
fun time's  

Congradutlations on the H2 pop Russ!  I see a lot of possible knowledge we can pick up for EPG usage in the future.:cool:

Nate

Good find on this video EZ, helps and explains much.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fd-coQ84XU&feature=youtu.be

Quote from firepinto on September 28th, 2012, 10:42 AM

Congradutlations on the H2 pop Russ!  I see a lot of possible knowledge we can pick up for EPG usage in the future.:cool:

Nate

That was the goal! :) and I have lerned a lot! ( more than expected)

Main goal, find something that works.. Use it! Lol even if it's only 95% efficient.. Not spending money is saving money! That's the way i see it!

Thanks every one, more testing is needed, but one thing is for sure, if I was "burning" the H... The first spark would set it off... This is not the case, this is proof it is not "burning" Is that plasma doing work I see?? Hummm,  ;)

I don't know what is up with the "kick back" something else may be happening as I never really seen the device fire, it kinds just dose nothing and then "back fires"... Will need to just play with it...  Thinking the HV was jumping my relay gap so I'm going to use a bigger gap... Defrent relay.


~Russ

[attachment=2354]Hi Russ,
I have being observing the inputs to your RF source for the chamber (Ppap Engine model).  It appears that you would like to accomplish and excitation or ionization in the chamber for your noble gas mixture.  The coaxial cable, representing a source for RF is doable.  This might turn into a miniature antenna near field test, which might be labor intensive.  I have a suggestion.  You can use microwave energy to excite or ionize your noble gasses in the chamber.  The entire configuration(Ppap Engine model) is very similar to an ECR(Electron Cyclotron Resonance) chamber, I worked on, many years ago, at one of our US Gov Labs; Can’t mention names.  The sources of your microwave component exist in any microwave oven.  ECR technique has been used in research industry, since the early 80’s, to deposit thin films of complex molecules on substrates, used to manufacture “chips” and other devices.  This is why your interior of the chamber is discolored.  You have actually deposited a thin film “in the surface” of the chamber interior.  What you have is a “grossly” scaled down model of ECR in the following picture:
http://jrm.phys.ksu.edu/Resource/Facilities/ECR/Beamlines.jpg

A more simple model of the Ppap engine model is as follows:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.plasma.inpe.br/LAP_Portal/LAP_Site/Figures/ECR_Discharge.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.plasma.inpe.br/LAP_Portal/LAP_Site/Text/Plasma_Processing.htm&h=330&w=300&sz=11&tbnid=JylKI-DXPSmx9M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=82&zoom=1&usg=__Uf1BanRGF3B7-sSfj-B2f1Pl2c0=&docid=mnCXtHhmt0zD7M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3BVmUPHXG8WLywGr0oB4&sqi=2&ved=0CEgQ9QEwAg&dur=1843

To answer your other question concerning the purpose of the coils that encapsulate the cylinder for the Ppap model, using the “right-hand” rule of thumb, in electromagnetic theory; a velocity towards the center is established when the coil is energized, among other events.  The coils, around your cylinder exert a velocity towards the center of the cylinder, while allowing an Electric field to exist in the horizontal plane of the cylinder(cylinder position upright), while the B-field(magnetic flux) exist in the vertical plane, parallel to the cylinder vertical axis.  In other words, when ions and electrons are produced from your noble gases, they are forced to the center of the cylinder, as follows:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.enigmatic-consulting.com/semiconductor_processing/CVD_Fundamentals/plasmas/plasma_images/Other_plasmas_3.GIF&imgrefurl=http://www.enigmatic-consulting.com/semiconductor_processing/CVD_Fundamentals/plasmas/Other_plasmas.html&h=127&w=166&sz=1&tbnid=yAj0YwPljhqwlM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=118&zoom=1&usg=__lig_gO0XMoDCttSB3HxVmfAy4jk=&docid=QtYfO8fXMnCpSM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3BVmUPHXG8WLywGr0oB4&sqi=2&ved=0CEsQ9QEwAw&dur=243

I hope this will assist you or help.  Peace out….

Quote from DPhysicsMon on September 28th, 2012, 03:08 PM

Hi Russ,
I have being observing the inputs to your RF source for the chamber (Ppap Engine model).  It appears that you would like to accomplish and excitation or ionization in the chamber for your noble gas mixture.  The coaxial cable, representing a source for RF is doable.  This might turn into a miniature antenna near field test, which might be labor intensive.  I have a suggestion.  You can use microwave energy to excite or ionize your noble gasses in the chamber.  The entire configuration(Ppap Engine model) is very similar to an ECR(Electron Cyclotron Resonance) chamber, I worked on, many years ago, at one of our US Gov Labs; Can’t mention names.  The sources of your microwave component exist in any microwave oven.  ECR technique has been used in research industry, since the early 80’s, to deposit thin films of complex molecules on substrates, used to manufacture “chips” and other devices.  This is why your interior of the chamber is discolored.  You have actually deposited a thin film “in the surface” of the chamber interior.  What you have is a “grossly” scaled down model of ECR in the following picture:
http://jrm.phys.ksu.edu/Resource/Facilities/ECR/Beamlines.jpg

A more simple model of the Ppap engine model is as follows:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.plasma.inpe.br/LAP_Portal/LAP_Site/Figures/ECR_Discharge.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.plasma.inpe.br/LAP_Portal/LAP_Site/Text/Plasma_Processing.htm&h=330&w=300&sz=11&tbnid=JylKI-DXPSmx9M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=82&zoom=1&usg=__Uf1BanRGF3B7-sSfj-B2f1Pl2c0=&docid=mnCXtHhmt0zD7M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3BVmUPHXG8WLywGr0oB4&sqi=2&ved=0CEgQ9QEwAg&dur=1843

To answer your other question concerning the purpose of the coils that encapsulate the cylinder for the Ppap model, using the “right-hand” rule of thumb, in electromagnetic theory; a velocity towards the center is established when the coil is energized, among other events.  The coils, around your cylinder exert a velocity towards the center of the cylinder, while allowing an Electric field to exist in the horizontal plane of the cylinder(cylinder position upright), while the B-field(magnetic flux) exist in the vertical plane, parallel to the cylinder vertical axis.  In other words, when ions and electrons are produced from your noble gases, they are forced to the center of the cylinder, as follows:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.enigmatic-consulting.com/semiconductor_processing/CVD_Fundamentals/plasmas/plasma_images/Other_plasmas_3.GIF&imgrefurl=http://www.enigmatic-consulting.com/semiconductor_processing/CVD_Fundamentals/plasmas/Other_plasmas.html&h=127&w=166&sz=1&tbnid=yAj0YwPljhqwlM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=118&zoom=1&usg=__lig_gO0XMoDCttSB3HxVmfAy4jk=&docid=QtYfO8fXMnCpSM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3BVmUPHXG8WLywGr0oB4&sqi=2&ved=0CEsQ9QEwAw&dur=243

I hope this will assist you or help.  Peace out….

So this would be equivalent or similar to a coil for the electron gun on the old style tv tubes?:D  

RF

The 50Ohm "dummy" load absorbs all RF energy and might be a bit small. The resistors might get very hot....
You might want to tune the antenna in the chamber, typical 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 etc of the golf-length.
However CB radio golf length is 11 meter... So that is a huge antenna.
You can use coils....
You can also go for brute force. Having an amp running only at 1/10 of it's potential.
Than the antenna miss match might not blow up your "finals". It will still radiate in your chamber.

Quote from k c dias on September 26th, 2012, 01:24 PM

Don't give up on the John popper just yet.  Today, I tested a 3 gas mix at 1/2 atmosphere, with the coils energized to 12V, one spark plug, and keying the cb manually.  While spinning the engine with an external drive at 5 rps, I could see a small flash in the chamber, and the SWR went down to 4 on channel #1 (still not a great SWR, but the best I have seen with air or argon and no coils)

I have work to do on sorting out my power supplies.  The controller board has a single 12V input, which feeds the 3 ignition coils and a 5V regulator for the MCU's.  I thought that large enough electrolytic caps on the 12V would keep the MCU's from freaking out, but with the one ign. coil, I am getting some misfires.  This means I am getting a miscount on the timing for the rotation.

The flywheel sensor wire is shielded twisted pair.  The controller is open, ie. not shielded.

I need to split the supply input to the board; one for the controller, and one for the ign. coils.  I also need to get the cb radio off of the supply I am using for the cylinder coils, so I can jack up the voltage on the cyl coils.  I am currently not gating the cb pulse nor the cylinder voltage, just running them both constant to look for any signs of life.  I saw a faint twinkle.

So, back to work for me.

kcd

KC, I'm not sure how they build ignition coils (if they have a snubber built in) but when you pulse a magnetic device it will create a flyback voltage that is reverse polarity.  A small air core coil in series with the positive lead and a 50V or greater diode across the + and - leads going to the coil might help.  The diode cathode should be on the +12V and anode on the negative return.  The coil would be in series with the + lead and between the diode and the controller.  Too much inductance will reduce the spark, so maybe 10 turns.   A second idea is to add a diode in series instead of the coil but keep the catch diode (across the line).

The resonant frequency for hydrogen is 1.420 405 752 gigahertz. There is a big difference in resonant frequency between hydrogen (1.4 GHz) and noble gases (25 MHz).

The rule is, the closer we can get to the resonant frequency, the less RF energy is needed to excite the gas.

DPhysicsMon makes a good point.

Quote

I have a suggestion. You can use microwave energy to excite or ionize your noble gasses in the chamber.

But this increase in frequency from megahertz to gigahertz is more important when we use hydrogen in the popper than it is for noble gases since hydrogen resonates at gigahertz frequencies.

It looks to me like we can add a magnetron from a microwave oven into the popper by inserting the magnetron antenna through the wall of the popper at the base near the electrode gap and pointing the antenna at it. This antenna looks like it can hold a vacuum since it has a tungsten filament inside of it just like a incandescent light bulb.

See what I mean by looking at this video: How a microwave works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT6EmMkKevY&feature=endscreen

It seems to me, we would want the smallest magnetron unit possible, say 400 watts. We only want to excite the hydrogen to excited pre-ionization, not keep the hydrogen permanently ionized.  

As DPhysicsMon says, this might work for noble gases also.

Building our own magnitron

If you notice, there are 10 cavities in that magnetron. Each supports .245 GHz.

We might be able to build our own custom very low power magnetron with 6 cavities that will radiate at 1.47 Ghz.

This might be done by adding 6 cavities to this little magnetron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk_MZ22OVyg&feature=related

Another one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfGGPIpLbRo&playnext=1&list=PL0A94A412FC358A32&feature=results_video



These are far out and wild ideas so any corrections or suggestions by you all will be appreciated so we can get better.
 

Quote from Axil on September 28th, 2012, 08:58 PM

The resonant frequency for hydrogen is 1.420 405 752 gigahertz. There is a big difference in resonant frequency between hydrogen(1.4 GHZ) and noble gases(25 MHz).

The rule is, the closer we can get to the resonant frequency, the less RF energy is needed to excite the gas.

DPhysicsMon makes a good point.

Quote

I have a suggestion. You can use microwave energy to excite or ionize your noble gasses in the chamber.

But this increase in frequency from megahertz to gigahertz is more important when we use hydrogen in the popper than it is for noble gases since hydrogen resonates at gigahertz frequencies.

It looks to me like we can add a magnetron from a microwave oven into the popper by inserting the magnetron antenna through the wall of the popper at the base near the electrode gap and pointing the antenna at it. This antenna looks like it can hold a vacuum since it has a tungsten filament inside of it just like a incandescent light bulb.

See what I mean by looking at this video: How a microwave works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT6EmMkKevY&feature=endscreen

It seems to me, we would want the smallest magnetron unit possible, say 400 watts. We only want to excite the hydrogen to excited pre-ionization, not keep the hydrogen permanently ionized.  

As DPhysicsMon says, this might work for noble gases also.

Building our own magnitron

If you notice, there are 10 cavities in that magnetron. Each supports .245 GHz.

We might be able to build our own custom very low power magnetron with 6 cavities that will radiate at 1.47 Ghz.

This might be done by adding 6 cavities to this little magnetron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk_MZ22OVyg&feature=related

And

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfGGPIpLbRo&playnext=1&list=PL0A94A412FC358A32&feature=results_video



These are far out and wild ideas so any corrections or suggestions by you all will be appreciated so we can get better.

In my newest video I talk about microwaves and how for now it don't work. Lol.

I took a dubble insulated glass and filled it under vacuum. Then placed it in the microwave... Nothing... We can look at the frequncys of which each gas will ionize and at what state. (electron Shell) also don't forget we can use light to pree ionize the gas... It works both ways. Just look at the gas ionize spectrum for these gasses...

Any way just some thoughts.

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on September 28th, 2012, 09:46 PM

Quote from Axil on September 28th, 2012, 08:58 PM

The resonant frequency for hydrogen is 1.420 405 752 gigahertz. There is a big difference in resonant frequency between hydrogen(1.4 GHZ) and noble gases(25 MHz).

The rule is, the closer we can get to the resonant frequency, the less RF energy is needed to excite the gas.

DPhysicsMon makes a good point.

Quote

I have a suggestion. You can use microwave energy to excite or ionize your noble gasses in the chamber.

But this increase in frequency from megahertz to gigahertz is more important when we use hydrogen in the popper than it is for noble gases since hydrogen resonates at gigahertz frequencies.

It looks to me like we can add a magnetron from a microwave oven into the popper by inserting the magnetron antenna through the wall of the popper at the base near the electrode gap and pointing the antenna at it. This antenna looks like it can hold a vacuum since it has a tungsten filament inside of it just like a incandescent light bulb.

See what I mean by looking at this video: How a microwave works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT6EmMkKevY&feature=endscreen

It seems to me, we would want the smallest magnetron unit possible, say 400 watts. We only want to excite the hydrogen to excited pre-ionization, not keep the hydrogen permanently ionized.  

As DPhysicsMon says, this might work for noble gases also.

Building our own magnitron

If you notice, there are 10 cavities in that magnetron. Each supports .245 GHz.

We might be able to build our own custom very low power magnetron with 6 cavities that will radiate at 1.47 Ghz.

This might be done by adding 6 cavities to this little magnetron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk_MZ22OVyg&feature=related

And

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfGGPIpLbRo&playnext=1&list=PL0A94A412FC358A32&feature=results_video



These are far out and wild ideas so any corrections or suggestions by you all will be appreciated so we can get better.

In my newest video I talk about microwaves and how for now it don't work. Lol.

I took a dubble insulated glass and filled it under vacuum. Then placed it in the microwave... Nothing... We can look at the frequncys of which each gas will ionize and at what state. (electron Shell) also don't forget we can use light to pree ionize the gas... It works both ways. Just look at the gas ionize spectrum for these gasses...

Any way just some thoughts.

Microwaving various gases

Neon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85mBXYJI2RE

Argon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBX4E3QZakc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwI5NakQQS4&feature=related

Helium

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGErffiqu1Q

ECR Plasma Photos

http://www.atomki.hu/atomki/Accelerators/ECR/Plasma%20photos.html


??????

Quote from Axil on September 28th, 2012, 10:39 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on September 28th, 2012, 09:46 PM

Quote from Axil on September 28th, 2012, 08:58 PM

The resonant frequency for hydrogen is 1.420 405 752 gigahertz. There is a big difference in resonant frequency between hydrogen(1.4 GHZ) and noble gases(25 MHz).

The rule is, the closer we can get to the resonant frequency, the less RF energy is needed to excite the gas.

DPhysicsMon makes a good point.

Quote

I have a suggestion. You can use microwave energy to excite or ionize your noble gasses in the chamber.

But this increase in frequency from megahertz to gigahertz is more important when we use hydrogen in the popper than it is for noble gases since hydrogen resonates at gigahertz frequencies.

It looks to me like we can add a magnetron from a microwave oven into the popper by inserting the magnetron antenna through the wall of the popper at the base near the electrode gap and pointing the antenna at it. This antenna looks like it can hold a vacuum since it has a tungsten filament inside of it just like a incandescent light bulb.

See what I mean by looking at this video: How a microwave works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT6EmMkKevY&feature=endscreen

It seems to me, we would want the smallest magnetron unit possible, say 400 watts. We only want to excite the hydrogen to excited pre-ionization, not keep the hydrogen permanently ionized.  

As DPhysicsMon says, this might work for noble gases also.

Building our own magnitron

If you notice, there are 10 cavities in that magnetron. Each supports .245 GHz.

We might be able to build our own custom very low power magnetron with 6 cavities that will radiate at 1.47 Ghz.

This might be done by adding 6 cavities to this little magnetron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk_MZ22OVyg&feature=related

And

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfGGPIpLbRo&playnext=1&list=PL0A94A412FC358A32&feature=results_video



These are far out and wild ideas so any corrections or suggestions by you all will be appreciated so we can get better.

In my newest video I talk about microwaves and how for now it don't work. Lol.

I took a dubble insulated glass and filled it under vacuum. Then placed it in the microwave... Nothing... We can look at the frequncys of which each gas will ionize and at what state. (electron Shell) also don't forget we can use light to pree ionize the gas... It works both ways. Just look at the gas ionize spectrum for these gasses...

Any way just some thoughts.

Microwaving various gases

Neon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85mBXYJI2RE

Argon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBX4E3QZakc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwI5NakQQS4&feature=related

Helium

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGErffiqu1Q

ECR Plasma Photos

http://www.atomki.hu/atomki/Accelerators/ECR/Plasma%20photos.html


??????

Intresting, it may be that I don't have enough vacuum To do the job... Also one stated it had a coil on it?

I will need to look at the spectrum and find what valence ring is making the eletron jump in the microwave frequency...  Higher or lower, this will determine how much microwave energy I need to ionize the gasses.

 

Thanks.

~Russ

On the use of microwave

A normal food microwave is tuned in for H2O and fat
see axil's link :

With the papp engine you don't want to get to high temperature's

But still a little excitement can be the help you need to get a reliable POP for each spark.

But that excitement must be tuned in for H2 then or for the frequency H2 needs to get its electrons in higher orbit.

So only a home build microwave or adjusted microwave that uses the right frequencies is the most effective.

And what about the question that a microwave shoots electrons? That's the opposite of what H2 (that should become 2H+) requires ?

You want to vibrate the electrons off of H2 not overflow them with e-

And Russ, that your test wasn't doing much can be explained by that the microwave is tuned for water and fat not for argon and h2 or other stuff

But before using extras you could still try to tune the high and low sparksides you use now. If you know the ownfrequency of H2..then compare it with your frequency and  devide the 2..if you get a whole number then your already a bit in the ballpark no?