"Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"

Dom

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #701, on November 13th, 2016, 05:22 PM »
If we have a setting we look to have on primary would that not just simply automatically covert to the secondary and L1? Would not the pulse from primary on be an off time in the secondary?

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #702, on November 13th, 2016, 05:25 PM »
During the off time of the primary is when the secondary is ramping up current in the L1 choke, if it don't match the primary off time then you will not get all the current into L1 from the secondary.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #703, on November 13th, 2016, 05:26 PM »Last edited on November 13th, 2016, 05:42 PM
Quote from Dom on November 13th, 2016, 05:22 PM
If we have a setting we look to have on primary would that not just simply automatically covert to the secondary and L1? Would not the pulse from primary on be an off time in the secondary?
No: You want it to be, but the inductance and resistance has to be right in the L1 choke before that can happened. What's the use of having .27amps "as an example" on the secondary side if you can't get all of into the L1 choke.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #705, on November 13th, 2016, 05:46 PM »Last edited on November 13th, 2016, 06:19 PM
I could Dom, but I think that is enough for people to digest right now. I will say this though, Capacitors has a time constant on them as well. As my old saying says "Time will take care of everything, all we need is a little more time."

newguy

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #706, on November 13th, 2016, 06:53 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 31st, 2016, 12:01 PM
Guy's inductors hates reverse current that's why they sound like they are frying when in resonance. What better way to cause oscillatiion within the cell than to put an inductor on each side of the cell.
This is why I ask the question about the oscillation in the cell....I was going from memory of that post thinking it was an oscillation only in the cell....my bad :)

Matt Watts

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #707, on November 13th, 2016, 10:28 PM »Last edited on November 17th, 2016, 04:42 AM
Is this PDF helpful to anybody as reference?

I'm not even sure it is correct; if not, you can throw eggs at me.  I like eggs.   :)

If they are rotten though, I'm taking a sabbatical.

Matt Watts

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #708, on November 13th, 2016, 11:02 PM »Last edited on November 13th, 2016, 11:39 PM
Quote from gpssonar on November 13th, 2016, 04:20 PM
Let do the math to find the time constants on the primary side of Stan's Vic.
...
By using your Scope you can now measure the pulse on time. It should have a time of .2425s
2.06 Hz ?   What the...?   Pretty darn slow input frequency.  Will Gunther's PGen even go that slow?   ;)

So where does the 10kHz come from?  Is that just the core rating frequency?


Matt Watts

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #711, on November 14th, 2016, 05:39 AM »
Quote from gpssonar on November 14th, 2016, 01:05 AM
@ Matt, I left off the zero. it should be .02425s I changed it in my post.
Okay, 20 Hz then.  Just a low buzz.  That frequency makes a lot more sense now looking at how the VIC operates.


Just curious how many people having actually wired together a VIC, have tried an input signal of that low a frequency.  I'm guessing quite a few started at the bottom around 100 Hz and went up from there.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #713, on November 14th, 2016, 06:19 AM »Last edited on November 14th, 2016, 08:33 AM
I changed my post to add the extra math to get the Frequency
Quote from gpssonar on November 13th, 2016, 04:20 PM
Let's do the math to find the time constants on the primary side of Stan's Vic.

According to Don's measurements:
Things we need to know.

Primary Coil Inductance=48.5mH with core @10kHz
Primary Coil Resistance=10 ohms
Primary voltage at 1Amp=10 volts
First thing we need to do is convert 48.5mH to Henry= 0.0485H
Next we need to divide the inductance into the resistance  0.0485/10=.00485s
.00485 is 63.2% of the rise in current and is the first time constant.
It takes 5 time constants to get to a full 1 amp in the coil
So take  .00485*5=.02425s
.02425s is the time period
Next we need to get the Frequency
The math for that is f=1/time
1/.02425=41.2371134Hz

andy

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #714, on November 14th, 2016, 11:11 AM »Last edited on November 14th, 2016, 11:14 AM
Ronnie
Can you tell - vic must produce 2:1 ratio charge. You wrote in answer to Russ more B+ voltage.
Are you mean vic must produce 2x  more positive charge than negative?
Thank for answer
andy

Matt Watts

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #715, on November 14th, 2016, 12:05 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on November 14th, 2016, 06:19 AM
I changed my post to add the extra math to get the Frequency

1/.02425=41.2371134Hz
Ronnie, if that time constant is only the on-time, you have to double it to calculate the total period (@ 50% duty cycle), which gives you half that frequency.  In this case, 20.6 Hz.

Matt Watts

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #717, on November 14th, 2016, 12:10 PM »
Well then, you would need to add both time constants together before you invert to frequency.  It takes an on-time and off-time to make a complete cycle or complete time period.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #720, on November 14th, 2016, 12:17 PM »Last edited on November 14th, 2016, 12:30 PM
Matt the time on is the same as the decay time which gives you 50% Duty cycle. Just double the 4Hz Frequency. Only thing different in the decay time is, it decays down to 38% instead of 63% rise but takes the same amount of time.