"Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"

~Russ

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #50, on October 24th, 2016, 11:31 AM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 24th, 2016, 11:24 AM
Thanks Russ, it just takes me out of the loop of control of peoples post. I want everyone to feel comfortable posting here.
no worries!

~Russ

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #51, on October 24th, 2016, 12:00 PM »Last edited on October 24th, 2016, 12:14 PM
@X-blade,
The problem I have with showing my cell and production is this, Look at Stan he showed his and look how much he got ridiculed. A video and production does not tell the story about Stan's gas. People that has seen his, still calls him a fraud and a con even though he put up the numbers to prove it. This is what you need to know, a liter of Stan's gas is not equal to a liter of Faraday Gas. A good comparison to Stan's cell is to put it up against a Faraday cell producing the same liter of gas, put that in the same engine and see which one would idle the engine the longest. I would bet you money you would not be diluting the Faraday gas but you would have to dilute Stan's gas. So putting up numbers of a Stan Meyers cell or a video is useless if you ask me. It want tell you anything until you know how much the gas has to be diluted to run in an engine. And here is more food for thought. If you get it working the way it is suppose to. If you produce a liter of gas let's say at 12000 volts and I produce a liter of gas at 20000 volts your gas want be as powerful as mine, so if your cell produces the same amount liter to liter as mine, there is still no comparison. It all depends on how much you excite the gas with high voltage determines on how powerful it is. This can be found studying his Stackable resonate Cavity's or Gas Gun. What I would like to do at some point is to fill two separate balloons of equal size on with Faraday gas and Stan's Gas and light them on a video. To me that would be a better video for everyone.
I'll give you something else to think about which goes along with this.
Take a fluorescent bulb and ballast for instance and it's normal brightness. What do you think would happened to the bulb if the gas was excited to an even higher high voltage?


X-Blade

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #52, on October 24th, 2016, 12:12 PM »
Thank you Ronnie.

What is  the difference between that stackable gas resonant cavities (that white ones I think) and the gas gun?

I know the difference between molecular hydrogen and atomic. I heard the blogtalkradio interview from Meyer's twin brother, he said that they realised that they dont need that much gas.

There is a common mistake to think that it is the same hydrogen. This is not a chemical reaction, and some people dont accept that.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #53, on October 24th, 2016, 12:23 PM »Last edited on October 24th, 2016, 12:25 PM
Both of them are used for gas excitation to take the gas to a higher State.

~Russ

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #54, on October 24th, 2016, 12:46 PM »Last edited on October 24th, 2016, 12:50 PM
Quote
What I would like to do at some point is to fill two separate balloons of equal size on with Faraday gas and Stan's Gas and light them on a video. To me that would be a better video for everyone.
oh i'm so up for that :)  ( before i got in to deep Stan work : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJtSXVmuxi0 )

and i agree 100% that is the best way to prove what your stating. like U say. the more the gas is excited, the more reaction there is to get it back to stable...  as we see in Stan's doc's and lectures.

its not about LPM, its a bout Thermal reaction with in that with that Liter...

you know i once built a device for testing this...

i called it the " Burn-o-meter"

http://rwgresearch.com/open-projects/burn-o-meter/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVuFbKNal_U


~Russ

Matt Watts

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #55, on October 24th, 2016, 01:06 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 24th, 2016, 12:00 PM
What I would like to do at some point is to fill two separate balloons of equal size on with Faraday gas and Stan's Gas and light them on a video. To me that would be a better video for everyone.
Ronnie, please don't.  We would never get to see that video because the camera and the crazy guy holding it would be gone.  Now maybe if you did it remotely using something like those model rocket launchers you'd be okay, but I can't say the camera would.

There's an aspect to all this completely unknown to most of us and that is, what's the limit to how energetic this form of gas can get?

To me, good enough is it.  If it will run the size engine or heater I want to connect up to it, that's good enough.  Pushing one's luck in this department could be a really bad idea.  Kind of brings me back to the discussion you and I had about Ed Mitchell's work.  With the voltages he has going on, things could get way out of control and happen so fast that his research days would be gone forever.  Something we all should heed attention to.  There can be such thing as not only working, but working too well, to the point of disaster.  None of us are there yet, but it would be a good idea to keep this thought in your mind--we don't know what the limit here is or if it even has a limit.


gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #56, on October 24th, 2016, 01:15 PM »
@ Matt, that's why I gave the Fluorescet Bulb example:
If you keep exciting the gas in the bulb with higher voltages it will get brighter and brighter until it reaches a point that it will explode. LOL

nav

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #57, on October 24th, 2016, 01:39 PM »
Ronnie, in order to fundamentally believe something and have true confidence in the theory behind it, i'd like to see it working in the same way Stan's did on the tomorrows world video where he filled the cell up with tap water and switched it on. It took Stan just a few seconds to show the working principle.

hydrofuelincanada

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #58, on October 24th, 2016, 01:57 PM »
I dont know about Ronnie, But I am getting real tired real fast of people bothering to see a running cell. Keep it up guys maybe you will piss Ronnie off enough to just stop helping you.

nav

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #59, on October 24th, 2016, 02:01 PM »
Ronnie, having read what you've said about the function of the VIC and tuning of the cell etc, can you explain how those principles fit into the below schematic for Stan's simple bifilar system. You will see that both coils lengths are the same and there is no primary, it is fed with rectified AC voltage in bursts using a gate. The voltage is 0-115vAC probably using a variac.
Can you explain to the forum the phases of the bifilar, each coils relationship to each other and their relationship to the cell and why Stan has written 'Amp inhibiting circuit (without amp influxing)'



mercury101

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #60, on October 24th, 2016, 02:08 PM »
Quote from hydrofuelincanada on October 24th, 2016, 01:57 PM
I dont know about Ronnie, But I am getting real tired real fast of people bothering to see a running cell. Keep it up guys maybe you will piss Ronnie off enough to just stop helping you.
It is easy to write off the people that piss you off. But also bear in mind how easy it is to forget the ones in the crowd that try not to!  I try not to. And yet if i say little or nothing at all how easy would it be to paint me with the same brush as well as the others trying to take notes and trying to not step on toes.

Merc

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #61, on October 24th, 2016, 02:12 PM »
Nav, I don't want anyone to believe in me, Believe in Stan Meyers he's already done a video for everyone. All I'm here for is to tell what he didn't. If what I have said so far doesn't help people get a working cell, then I am wasting my time. What is important is making your own video some day soon. Just keep watching this and believe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOGAkRkCWfA

nav

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #62, on October 24th, 2016, 02:13 PM »
Quote from hydrofuelincanada on October 24th, 2016, 01:57 PM
I dont know about Ronnie, But I am getting real tired real fast of people bothering to see a running cell. Keep it up guys maybe you will piss Ronnie off enough to just stop helping you.
When the wright brothers flew a plane, it helped that people saw them do it. Never in the entire history of the Royal Institute in London did anyone ever present a theory without showing a working principle to go with it. It's bad science and it's not the accepted way of doing things.
I'm not disputing Ronnie and his explanations of how things work but before I put a soldering iron to anything I want to see it working otherwise it's a no go for me, sorry but that is just how it is. If there is no working model then I carry on doing things my own way, if I see a working model then i'll follow the lead. I've learned over the years to take everything with a pinch of salt, that is no disrespect to anyone on here but that is how it has to be. My system is built and ready and it can either go Ronnie's way or my own way, if I see nothing in Ronnie's work that I think will help me then I'll go down my own road. Like I said, no disrespect to Ronnie but that is the way I operate and if I fail doing so then so be it.

hydrofuelincanada

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #63, on October 24th, 2016, 02:16 PM »
Quote from mercury101 on October 24th, 2016, 02:08 PM
It is easy to write off the people that piss you off. But also bear in mind how easy it is to forget the ones in the crowd that try not to!  I try not to. And yet if i say little or nothing at all how easy would it be to paint me with the same brush as well as the others trying to take notes and trying to not step on toes.

Merc


Merc you are different than others bro. its the ones that keep asking for Ronnie to show a video of his cell working. Can you imagine how his life would be turned upside down if he did.
Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #64, on October 24th, 2016, 02:18 PM »
Quote from nav on October 24th, 2016, 02:13 PM
When the wright brothers flew a plane, it helped that people saw them do it. Never in the entire history of the Royal Institute in London did anyone ever present a theory without showing a working principle to go with it. It's bad science and it's not the accepted way of doing things.
I'm not disputing Ronnie and his explanations of how things work but before I put a soldering iron to anything I want to see it working otherwise it's a no go for me, sorry but that is just how it is. If there is no working model then I carry on doing things my own way, if I see a working model then i'll follow the lead. I've learned over the years to take everything with a pinch of salt, that is no disrespect to anyone on here but that is how it has to be. My system is built and ready and it can either go Ronnie's way or my own way, if I see nothing in Ronnie's work that I think will help me then I'll go down my own road. Like I said, no disrespect to Ronnie but that is the way I operate and if I fail doing so then so be it.
Okay

nav

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #65, on October 24th, 2016, 02:21 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 24th, 2016, 02:12 PM
Nav, I don't want anyone to believe in me, Believe in Stan Meyers he's already done a video for everyone. All I'm here for is to tell what he didn't. If what I have said so far doesn't help people get a working cell, then I am wasting my time. What is important is making your own video some day soon. Just keep watching this and believe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOGAkRkCWfA
OK, I'd waited till the 24th to see what was on offer before I picked up a soldering iron and changed anything. The soldering iron stays in the stand and i'll carry on with what I was doing before the long wait until the 24th.
No gas no play for me Ronnie, no disrespect to you but I got things to do my own way.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #66, on October 24th, 2016, 02:25 PM »
Quote from nav on October 24th, 2016, 02:01 PM
Ronnie, having read what you've said about the function of the VIC and tuning of the cell etc, can you explain how those principles fit into the below schematic for Stan's simple bifilar system. You will see that both coils lengths are the same and there is no primary, it is fed with rectified AC voltage in bursts using a gate. The voltage is 0-115vAC probably using a variac.
Can you explain to the forum the phases of the bifilar, each coils relationship to each other and their relationship to the cell and why Stan has written 'Amp inhibiting circuit (without amp influxing)'
That's a good photo to share, I was going to share it later, but since you already have I will talk about it.

First: it shows that the chokes does not have to be on the same core material as the primary and secondary. You will find a few more to prove this in the Tech Brief.

Second: It shows a balance coil design which leaves you with only one variable left that you can make adjustments with. (which is the capacitors) Which he used tubes that he could slide up and down to make adjustments with along with a flat plate cell that is a variable to tune the system.

Third: The l2 choke is always an amp inhibitor until the system hits resonance them and only then will it react with the other coils.

X-Blade

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #67, on October 24th, 2016, 02:30 PM »
Ronnie, Is that second stage (resonance) automatic when the voltage goes up to a certain level or we have to do something special?

We can clearly hear Stan saying that resonance superimposes the particle impact to the polarization process rising the yeld of gas production (New Zealand house meeting vídeo)

~Russ

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #68, on October 24th, 2016, 02:31 PM »Last edited on October 24th, 2016, 02:32 PM
Quote from nav on October 24th, 2016, 02:21 PM
No gas no play for me Ronnie, no disrespect to you but I got things to do my own way.
the thing is is you set an example for us all!

and your right, this info is here for those who want to see it, and for those who dont, thats OK, nothing wrong with that.

as long as everyone can agree to disagree, We can move on.

this is how i for seen the forums in the first place, its nice to see it happening that way.

will keep chugging along what what Ronnie has posted and will post, like smart scarecrow always said " make up your own damn mind"

:)

~Russ

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #69, on October 24th, 2016, 02:37 PM »
Quote from nav on October 24th, 2016, 02:21 PM
OK, I'd waited till the 24th to see what was on offer before I picked up a soldering iron and changed anything. The soldering iron stays in the stand and i'll carry on with what I was doing before the long wait until the 24th.
No gas no play for me Ronnie, no disrespect to you but I got things to do my own way.
Good deal Nav, no disrespect taken. I don't know what to say to you. You had it all worked out other than knowing this part of it. Putting the soldering iron back up just because I'm not showing a video. Tell me before you leave, How would a video of my cell make you keep your soldering iron out? Other people that I have told this to, before I even posted it here can see how it works now, It brought out a few soldering irons out of the closets. All I can say if it brings a few out and lose one that's still a net gain.

Lynx

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #70, on October 24th, 2016, 02:37 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 24th, 2016, 02:25 PM
Second: It shows a balance coil design which leaves you with only one variable left that you can make adjustments with. (which is the capacitors) Which he used tubes that he could slide up and down to make adjustments with along with a flat plate cell that is a variable to tune the system.
This so reminds me of that famous clip with Meyer driving his dune buggy with a passenger sitting by the WFC who looks as though he's ready to perform some adjustment of sort on the cell.

Maybe that was exactly what he was doing even......?

nav

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #71, on October 24th, 2016, 02:47 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 24th, 2016, 02:25 PM
That's a good photo to share, I was going to share it later, but since you already have I will talk about it.

First: it shows that the chokes does not have to be on the same core material as the primary and secondary. You will find a few more to prove this in the Tech Brief.

Second: It shows a balance coil design which leaves you with only one variable left that you can make adjustments with. (which is the capacitors) Which he used tubes that he could slide up and down to make adjustments with along with a flat plate cell that is a variable to tune the system.

Third: The l2 choke is always an amp inhibitor until the system hits resonance them and only then will it react with the other coils.
I've tested this arrangement many times. It is for all intents and purposes a differential mode choke. It allows frequencies of one nature to pass freely while choking other frequencies. It does so because the Q factor changes from one frequency to another. The flux lines cancel each other out @ self resonance and that is why it inhibits current, when the coils go into self resonance the magnetic lines of flux still cancel each other out in differential mode but the voltage builds up if an escape line of capacitors is not present in which case it dumps the voltage to ground usually. Stan collects the differential mode voltage in his cell instead of dumping it to ground. That is my understanding of it. See here:
 

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #72, on October 24th, 2016, 03:03 PM »Last edited on October 24th, 2016, 03:10 PM
Quote from X-Blade on October 24th, 2016, 02:30 PM
Ronnie, Is that second stage (resonance) automatic when the voltage goes up to a certain level or we have to do something special?

We can clearly hear Stan saying that resonance superimposes the particle impact to the polarization process rising the yeld of gas production (New Zealand house meeting vídeo)
You want that resonance to occur at your peak voltage applied to the primary and not before. That way you get all the high voltage you can produce on the secondary side when it goes into resonance.
The leakage current is what's controlled from 2 to 11 or 12 volts.
it's automatic once tuned
the L1 choke and cells has to be designed to setup the amp leakage along with Frequency.

Let's take Stan's primary for instance:
It has 10.5 ohms in the coil of wire used because he wants a 500 turn on the primary.
The wire he uses is rated at 1.2 amps.
in order to get 1.2 amp in the primary you just take 10.5 ohms and a 220 ohm resistor in parallel with the coil and it will give you 1/(1/220+1/10.5)= 9.97 close enough to 10 ohms then you take 12volts/10ohms=1.2 amps

You don't want to fool with your turn count ratio.


nav

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #73, on October 24th, 2016, 03:05 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 24th, 2016, 02:37 PM
Good deal Nav, no disrespect taken. I don't know what to say to you. You had it all worked out other than knowing this part of it. Putting the soldering iron back up just because I'm not showing a video. Tell me before you leave, How would a video of my cell make you keep your soldering iron out? Other people that I have told this to, before I even posted it here can see how it works now, It brought out a few soldering irons out of the closets. All I can say if it brings a few out and lose one that's still a net gain.
Ronnie, i've always believed deep down that the key to the whole process is Q factor of coils at different frequencies and the way those coils are pitched against each other. In other words certain coils are passive @ their own self resonant frequency and but restrictive @ other frequencies, I believed when I posted my thread about differential mode chokes and common mode chokes about a year ago and I still believe it now. If you can pitch one coil against another so that the magnetic lines of flux cancel in the core @ the coils self resonant frequency just like a differential mode choke does then you can utilise the voltage field trapped inside instead of dumping it to ground like modern choking circuits do. That is my understanding and that is the way I have my VIC wired to operate, but you are right about the impedance matching, if the cell cannot except energy at the same rate at which the VIC needs to get rid of it then you will create standing waves on the transmission line. Anyway, good luck to all in their quest for the holy grail - a working VIC and cell. I'm going to blow myself up impedance matching hahaha.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #74, on October 24th, 2016, 03:20 PM »Last edited on October 24th, 2016, 03:35 PM
I working on it Nav, I can only answer one question at a time, It's only me trying to do this. I am asking for help form anyone that knows anything about all this to help me out and take some of the questions off me. I'm doing the best i can if I'm not getting to everything at once fast enough please help. There is only one me! I gave Matt a copy of how Stan's coils are arranged a while back. I don't have that information with me where I'm at now due to personal reasons. If he can put it up for everyone that would be great. If not I will have to do it again a post it.
I know they are people that is way ahead of everyone else, but you have to keep in mind I'm trying to lay this out for people that is just starting also.

I started this thread posting what is needed to get a cell working in my first post for those that are way ahead of everyone else.
That should have been the key everyone was and has been looking for. From what I've seen that's where everyone got stuck at.