#### haxar

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #100, on October 25th, 2016, 09:18 PM »
Quote from ~Russ on October 25th, 2016, 05:35 PM
like here look at where the ground is, this is in only a few diagrams everything else the ground is left off. :
If it's not in the other diagrams or in the text, it's easy to rule that out.
##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #101, on October 25th, 2016, 09:25 PM »
Quote from ~Russ on October 25th, 2016, 05:35 PM
Ronnie, i have a simple Question. explain how and why the diode is in there. we know we are trying to make DC not AC Correct?
Without verifying, I would say the diode basically orients the water. We can only fracture the water in one direction.

#### mercury101

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #102, on October 25th, 2016, 10:43 PM »Last edited on October 25th, 2016, 10:54 PM by ~Russ
Ok thanks. Will do between exams
Quote from ~Russ on October 25th, 2016, 05:35 PM
Merc, if you dont know much about the phase and what it dose with C and L do read up on it, you will need to know about it, google "Power Factor" and r3ead up on it,

also read up on it here find the sections related to L C and Resonance, and Power factor.
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/books/Hawkings%20Electrical%20Guide%20Full%20Set%20Vol%201-10.zip

if you under stand phase shift, sorry for extra information, for others who do not know the relationship between voltage and current, do read up on it.

Ronnie, i have a simple Question. explain how and why the diode is in there. we know we are trying to make DC not AC Correct?

for for me the diode dose may have more reason than meets the eye.

like here look at where the ground is, this is in only a few diagrams everything else the ground is left off. :

#### ~Russ

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #103, on October 25th, 2016, 11:09 PM »Last edited on October 25th, 2016, 11:12 PM
Quote from gpssonar on October 25th, 2016, 06:15 PM
Russ, i haven't seen that drawing where did it come from?  It goes against everything he has said about an isolated ground. It has to be a mistake or something. I have looked at all his VIC's and none of them are grounded. So I can't comment on that one, other than he mislabeled it.

I would like to draw up something to explain the diode before I comment on it. So I can put some visual to it. I will work in it and post it.
take your time,  yes your right, there was no physical wire to ground in Stans VIC,

this photo is in stan's patent WO92-07861
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Patents/SMeyer-WO9207861A1-International_Patent.pdf
also see the one attached, it also has a ground drawn in to it.

it could be wrong, however i think that the the diagram is not indicating that there is a wire to ground, its saying that that is where your 0 reference point is... aka your ground on your scope.

and to be honest its been a while and I'm not sure i remember where i measured the " ground state"   in my VIC testing.  i need to look at my notes...

~Russ

#### HHO-Dan

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #104, on October 26th, 2016, 12:48 AM »Last edited on October 26th, 2016, 12:51 AM
I think Matt is on to something....
Quote from Matt:

"So now do you see how to tune the negative choke with water in the WFC after you have already tuned for resonance with high voltage on an empty (dry) WFC?"

I never thought to tune with a empty cell or..... set the offset to 2v
Thanks Matt

#### gpssonar

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #105, on October 26th, 2016, 04:02 AM »Last edited on October 26th, 2016, 04:05 AM
Man, am I glad everyone is starting to understand this, I thought it was going to be painful form me to explain and get everyone to believe in it.
I just want to thank Allan, Neal, Matt, Ris, Dom, Adam and Brad and others for giving me confidence to do this. Without them, I more than likely would have never made the decision to start this thread and go public with this. The last thing I wanted was make a claim I had it working and then come out looking like a fool trying to explain it. There is still plenty to explain, let's just hope and pray I still don't end up looking like a fool.

#### Matt Watts

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #106, on October 26th, 2016, 04:48 AM »
You're doing great Ronnie.  Just don't have a stroke and do a Don Smith on us.  That would make things a little tougher.
##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #107, on October 26th, 2016, 04:52 AM »
Quote from HHO-Dan on October 26th, 2016, 12:48 AM
I never thought to tune with a empty cell or..... set the offset to 2v
That's 2 volts per each cell within the WFC.  So if you have a six cell WFC, 12 volts should do it.  Remember, cells are connected in series.

#### Webmug

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #108, on October 26th, 2016, 05:50 AM »Last edited on October 27th, 2016, 03:28 PM
deleted

#### The Fifth Column

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #109, on October 26th, 2016, 06:41 AM »
Quote from haxar on October 25th, 2016, 09:00 PM
Can you identify, which coil in red would be L1 and L2 in this orientation?

Yellow == Primary
Green == Feedback
Blue == Secondary
L1 == Top or Bottom of image?
L2 == Top or Bottom of image?

L1 is next to Secondary, L2 is up by the primary.
one is in phase one is not.
##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #110, on October 26th, 2016, 06:46 AM »
Quote from mercury101 on October 25th, 2016, 10:43 PM
Ok thanks. Will do between exams
Merc it is DC into the primary....but AC will come out /or into the chocks by way of the WFC.
##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #111, on October 26th, 2016, 06:56 AM »Last edited on October 26th, 2016, 07:04 AM
Also there is also ringing from the coils. that often means it will go below the 0 reference line. DC normally will not go below it, that is not a fact! that is my experience with these coils for what ever it is worth.

here are some examples.

#### ~Russ

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #112, on October 26th, 2016, 07:33 AM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 26th, 2016, 04:02 AM
Man, am I glad everyone is starting to understand this, I thought it was going to be painful form me to explain and get everyone to believe in it.
I just want to thank Allan, Neal, Matt, Ris, Dom, Adam and Brad and others for giving me confidence to do this. Without them, I more than likely would have never made the decision to start this thread and go public with this. The last thing I wanted was make a claim I had it working and then come out looking like a fool trying to explain it. There is still plenty to explain, let's just hope and pray I still don't end up looking like a fool.
One things for sure.

Anyone who dose not speak up is the fool.

You do your best to explain it the way you know it. And we will do our best to unerstand it better.

And I'll help you have a free place to speak it (along with the others who keep this place running)

~Russ
##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #113, on October 26th, 2016, 10:13 AM »
Nav, you remove turns from L2, that is the " wiper arm"  its a thing you tune by removing turns a few at a time ( lets say 25 at a time) until you see the results your looking for. Matt explained this quite well above.

hope this helps.

~Russ

#### HMS-776

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #114, on October 26th, 2016, 11:15 AM »
Lots of good info here.

Thanks Ronnie: )

I finally got the last part I needed.
Testing will start this week hopefully!

#### nav

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #115, on October 26th, 2016, 01:03 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 24th, 2016, 02:25 PM
That's a good photo to share, I was going to share it later, but since you already have I will talk about it.

First: it shows that the chokes does not have to be on the same core material as the primary and secondary. You will find a few more to prove this in the Tech Brief.

Second: It shows a balance coil design which leaves you with only one variable left that you can make adjustments with. (which is the capacitors) Which he used tubes that he could slide up and down to make adjustments with along with a flat plate cell that is a variable to tune the system.

Third: The l2 choke is always an amp inhibitor until the system hits resonance them and only then will it react with the other coils.
OK Ronnie please remove the above posts I made where stated, I was waffling and the posts are not neccessary. Matt mentioned that if we centre tap the secondary, remove a few turns from L2 then you should see a differential of 2v per cell. I have a few questions. Firstly, how could you do this with a bifilar where Stan mentions the coil wires are the same size, how do you get your 2v?
Secondly, if you centre tap the secondary and use it has a ground then place scope probes across L1 and L2 are you not just measuring the the potential difference in coil length and therefore voltage? Of course remembering that 3 coils and different tap points are similar to 3 phase transformers with their respective wondering about of potentials.

#### gpssonar

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #116, on October 26th, 2016, 02:25 PM »
I can't remove post here, I have no control over this thread. It's not in my bench, a moderator will have to do it for you.

#### ~Russ

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #117, on October 26th, 2016, 03:20 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 26th, 2016, 02:25 PM
I can't remove post here, I have no control over this thread. It's not in my bench, a moderator will have to do it for you.
will get to it... for now continue on :)

~Russ

#### haxar

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #118, on October 26th, 2016, 06:45 PM »
Quote from ~Russ on October 26th, 2016, 03:20 PM
will get to it... for now continue on :)

~Russ
Done.

#### nav

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #119, on October 27th, 2016, 08:22 AM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 26th, 2016, 02:25 PM
I can't remove post here, I have no control over this thread. It's not in my bench, a moderator will have to do it for you.
OK, they sorted it. Ronnie, any chance of answering the above questions?

#### gpssonar

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #120, on October 27th, 2016, 03:00 PM »Last edited on October 29th, 2016, 02:21 PM
Here is a couple photo's of the phasing and how the coils are connected. Hope this helps everyone and answers a few questions. Can you tell which coils are aiding and opposing each other?
##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #121, on October 27th, 2016, 04:56 PM »
Maybe this will help.
##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #122, on October 27th, 2016, 05:53 PM »
Nav ask the question about the choke coils being the same. The way I can answer this is.
As you can see in plain sight in the photos above, there is a B+ and B- voltage. (Example  B+ 500 volts and B- 500 volts. (If the choke coils are of equal value)).
In a perfect situation, if the L2 choke has the right amount of resistance in it to stop current flow, and because the blocking diode which only conducts electrical energy in one direction. During pulse off time it also would stop current flow back into the secondary to prevent shorting of the secondary.

We don't want a perfect situation, we want electron movement in the cell. We want what Stan calls (Electron Bounce)  which is electron movement within the cell from plate to plate during On time and Off time. Since voltage is pressure, we can create this electron movement by having two different voltage pressures. (Example B+ 500 volts and B- 450 volts).

#### Matt Watts

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #123, on October 27th, 2016, 07:51 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 27th, 2016, 03:00 PM
Can you tell which coils are aiding and opposing each other?
Should they be aiding?  Or should they be opposing (bucking)?   The two chokes that is.

I can also see the L2 coil appears to have fewer wraps of wire.  At least is looks a bit smaller in diameter to me.

#### haxar

##### Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #124, on October 27th, 2016, 09:32 PM »
Quote from Matt Watts on October 27th, 2016, 07:51 PM
I can also see the L2 coil appears to have fewer wraps of wire.  At least is looks a bit smaller in diameter to me.
Primary (Yellow) -> 10.5 ohms
Feedback (Green) -> 11.5/11.1 ohms
Secondary (Blue) -> 72.4 ohms
Choke 1 (Red) -> 76.7 ohms
Choke 2 (Red) -> 70.1 ohms

AWG 30 resistance to length values:

Primary (Yellow) -> 10.5 ohms / (103.2 ohms / 1000 feet) = 101.744186047 feet
Feedback (Green) -> 11.5 / (103.2 ohms / 1000 feet) = 111.434108527 feet
Secondary (Blue) -> 72.4 ohms / (103.2 ohms / 1000 feet) = 701.550387597 feet
Choke 1 (Red) -> 76.7 ohms / (103.2 ohms / 1000 feet) = 743.217054264 feet
Choke 2 (Red) -> 70.1 ohms / (103.2 ohms / 1000 feet) = 679.263565891 feet

Source: Dynodon's Stan estate data sampling. Continued: http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=119.msg2559#msg2559

Primary to secondary ratio is 1 to 7.