Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.

Matt Watts

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1375, on January 10th, 2013, 05:37 PM »Last edited on January 10th, 2013, 06:58 PM by Matt Watts
My bad guys.  I meant this one:
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=945

Thorium, actually Liquid Fluoride Thorium.  Nuclear fuel, which may very well be what keeps the Papp Engine running over sustained intervals.

Let me also try to redeem myself by proposing you watch this video; if you do not learn something, please watch it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI

Jeff Nading

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1376, on January 10th, 2013, 08:22 PM »
Quote from Dog-One on January 10th, 2013, 05:37 PM
My bad guys.  I meant this one:
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=945

Thorium, actually Liquid Fluoride Thorium.  Nuclear fuel, which may very well be what keeps the Papp Engine running over sustained intervals.

Let me also try to redeem myself by proposing you watch this video; if you do not learn something, please watch it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI
This is an awesome change in the way we view matter, plasma, gravity and magnetism. Keshe stuff.:cool::D:P

FaradayEZ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1377, on January 10th, 2013, 09:07 PM »
Quote from k c dias on January 10th, 2013, 03:58 PM
Quote from FaradayEZ on January 10th, 2013, 01:56 PM
That liquid wouldn't have happened to be Liquid Fluoride Thorium would it?
See this post for reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PkQrJZYZN4

Could you please say at what minute the interesting stuff is? Now i have to watch an hour on vegetarians?
I couldn't stand to sit through that vid, skimmed it...useless.
How about this one.  (don't want to hijack this thread, but it is interesting)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EHEoc2QsvM
Ha you made good on spending two hours glued to the screen. Didn't know lifters technology had to do with thorium reactors. Very interesting and promising.



Slickhanz

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1379, on January 10th, 2013, 11:49 PM »Last edited on January 11th, 2013, 12:02 AM by Slickhanz
Quote from Dog-One on January 10th, 2013, 05:37 PM
My bad guys.  I meant this one:
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=945

Thorium, actually Liquid Fluoride Thorium.  Nuclear fuel, which may very well be what keeps the Papp Engine running over sustained intervals.

Let me also try to redeem myself by proposing you watch this video; if you do not learn something, please watch it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI
Great video!
Tim
Thanks Russ. I appreciate it. :D

Lynx

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1380, on January 11th, 2013, 01:39 AM »
Quote from Dog-One on January 10th, 2013, 05:37 PM
Let me also try to redeem myself by proposing you watch this video; if you do not learn something, please watch it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI
I browsed through the video, but I actually saw enough to get some kind of
plausible explanation to why the hell electrons don't just plummit into the
protons in atoms and molecules.

IIRC the explanation offered in physics class in school were somewhere in the
lines of strong/weak/nuclear/something else/ force of sort.
But watching the ordered formation of the steel balls and seeing the inverted
double cones of the round shape an atom "is supposed" to have according to
classic physics sure makes more sense to me, atleast with regards to my
"electron/proton-dilemma".

Thanks for sharing

securesupplies

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1381, on January 12th, 2013, 11:39 AM »

Well done

In this Video Of coarse it is very interesting to think about making
electrodes like this for Popper and or Gas Gun.

Imagine Striping off electons of all axis of this baby when running.


Any Comments on making this  or buy them \
and what they are made off. ?

Enrg4life

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1382, on January 13th, 2013, 06:57 AM »
Nice find Russ, this is similar to an experiment I did with a carbon electrode,isolated from a stainless steel pipe, 480vdc and small droplets of water dropping onto it from above. It created a plasma burst, a loud explosion each time I dropped water on to it from above.
Enrg4life

edxhemphill

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1383, on January 13th, 2013, 12:24 PM »
Dear Bob Rohner,I ask you again, Can you please post the orginal controler your brother Tom built.I noticed there are 5 containers of noble gases and a 6th container showen in the vidios. What was in the gray contianer if ,you know? Bob you can't imagine how much I , we would love to pick your brain about what Joe papp was fooling with to get the engines to run . I know your in this for a profit and thats great but please help the rest of us as much as you can , Thanks Ed hemphill The research goes on.

Jeff Nading

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1384, on January 13th, 2013, 12:47 PM »
Quote from edxhemphill on January 13th, 2013, 12:24 PM
Dear Bob Rohner,I ask you again, Can you please post the orginal controler your brother Tom built.I noticed there are 5 containers of noble gases and a 6th container showen in the vidios. What was in the gray contianer if ,you know? Bob you can't imagine how much I , we would love to pick your brain about what Joe papp was fooling with to get the engines to run . I know your in this for a profit and thats great but please help the rest of us as much as you can , Thanks Ed hemphill The research goes on.
Don't know if Bob is even monitoring this forum anymore Ed. haven't seen a post from him in months.:D

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1385, on January 13th, 2013, 03:13 PM »
Quote from Enrg4life on January 13th, 2013, 06:57 AM
Nice find Russ, this is similar to an experiment I did with a carbon electrode,isolated from a stainless steel pipe, 480vdc and small droplets of water dropping onto it from above. It created a plasma burst, a loud explosion each time I dropped water on to it from above.
Enrg4life
Souds like a lot of fun! ;)

I did try sitting a droplet of water in the path way of the spark but it just kinda just popped every where when the HV hit it! Lol I don't know if it had anything to do with the water exploding like I would have thought. ;)

Russ  

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1386, on January 13th, 2013, 03:18 PM »
Quote from edxhemphill on January 13th, 2013, 12:24 PM
Dear Bob Rohner,I ask you again, Can you please post the orginal controler your brother Tom built.I noticed there are 5 containers of noble gases and a 6th container showen in the vidios. What was in the gray contianer if ,you know? Bob you can't imagine how much I , we would love to pick your brain about what Joe papp was fooling with to get the engines to run . I know your in this for a profit and thats great but please help the rest of us as much as you can , Thanks Ed hemphill The research goes on.
ED,

I think the schematic I posted here:

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=659&pid=11756#pid11756

Was toms orgnal. You can see the EPROM that controlled the timing.

The 6th cylinder was a mix of gasses from what I understand. The "Papp orgnial mix"

Yes, I would encourage bob to continue to post helpfull info. Hope you will. Blessings.

~Russ  

Axil

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1387, on January 14th, 2013, 12:38 PM »Last edited on January 14th, 2013, 01:09 PM by Axil
It has been proposed in recent conversations that expansion of gas clusters by x-ray pulse radiation produces the explosive force in the Papp reaction.

This potentially gainful process is well known in recent experimental physics and is a subject of extensive current ongoing research.

A study done on this subject show that ionization of a cluster is an exponential chain reaction type of process as described as follows:

High Intensity Femtosecond XUV Pulse Interactions with Atomic Clusters

[attachment=3034]


The more a cluster is ionized, the easier it is for x-ray photons to further ionize additional electrons in that cluster.

In detail, when the ionized cluster eventually reaches an ionization limit where the remaining electrons cannot sustain the structural integrity of the cluster any longer, an explosive disintegration of the cluster and subsequent plasma expansion of the positive ions and electrons which once formed the cluster occurs.

Multi-electron ionization of molecules and clusters can be realized by photoionization of strong x-ray photons.

The multi-electron ionization leads to an explosive disintegration of the cluster together with the production of multi-charged atomic ions.
 
From: Multielectron Ionization of Large Rare Gas Clusters

[attachment=3033]

The kinetic energy of the product ions formed by this explosion is of the order of several or tens eV in a diatomic, hundreds of eV in small van der Waals(VDW) clusters,  and 100 KeV to 1 MeV in large (n > 1000) VDW clusters.

What causes this accelerating weakening of the structure under the onslaught of x-ray photons radiation is “barrier suppression ionization”.

The initial arrival of x-ray photons begin the formation of plasma that is localized within the cluster itself.

The electrons initially dislodged by the x-ray photons orbit around the outside of the cluster. These electrons lower the coulomb barrier holding the electrons that remain orbiting the cluster’s inner atoms. These remaining electrons reside in the inner orbits closer in to the nuclei of their atoms.

Excess electric charge in the gas carrying the clusters will also add to the suppression of the coulomb barrier further supporting cascading cluster ionization.

When enough electrons are removed, the cluster explodes.

In order to take advantage of the energy produced by “barrier suppression ionization”, the designers of the Papp reaction must satisfy two main engineering goals: first, large noble gas clusters must be formulated, and two, copious amounts of high energy x-ray photons must be produced.

Scientists have known about the existence of clusters for many years, but it has only been within the past ten years that the research tools, particularly lasers, needed to study this strange new form of matter have become available. The result has been a burgeoning of cluster research from which has come a pivotal shift in scientific approach that could prove to have profound ramifications even beyond the immediate areas of catalysis, microelectronics, and advanced materials fabrication.




Cross posted on vortex

element 119

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1388, on January 14th, 2013, 01:24 PM »
Test update!

I can confirm that an all plastic stopper in an all plastic chamber and cylinder will propel the stopper off.
The only metals involved were the metal electrodes.

So yes there is an increase in pressure or a shock wave created by the discharge and should rule out a completely Electro-magnetic repulsion.

element 119

Jeff Nading

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1389, on January 14th, 2013, 02:03 PM »
Quote from element 119 on January 14th, 2013, 01:24 PM
Test update!

I can confirm that an all plastic stopper in an all plastic chamber and cylinder will propel the stopper off.
The only metals involved were the metal electrodes.

So yes there is an increase in pressure or a shock wave created by the discharge and should rule out a completely Electro-magnetic repulsion.

element 119
Good work element 119. Thanks Axil.:cool::D:P

k c dias

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1390, on January 14th, 2013, 02:15 PM »Last edited on January 14th, 2013, 02:20 PM by k c dias
Quote from Axil on January 14th, 2013, 12:38 PM
From vortex:
Axil Axil Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:34:33 -0800

The noble gases are not consumed. They revert back to their concentrated
clustered state (think buckyballs).

The next cycle starts out with the concentrated clustered noble gases which
expand again under the stimulation of the next spark discharge.
Axil,

This may sound nutty, but I have been looking on the net to find the answer to: When a volume of water is put in a position to do work due to its expansion upon freezing, is the work performed accounted for?  Is the 'phase change work' free?  Of course the heat of fusion must be removed to form the ice, and then returned to melt the ice, but is the work performed accounted for?

Suppose the expansion of the concentrated clustered noble gases is a change of state, the energy to cause this transition analogous to the heat of fusion for ice.  This would account for the change in pressure, at constant volume, state 1 to state 2 on the attached P_V chart.  State 2 to state 3 is the isentropic expansion of the gas, 3 to 4 is the reversion back to the concentrated clustered state, and 5 to 1 is the nearly isobaric (for all practical purposes) compression back to top dead center.

Put some energy in at '1', take it back out at '3' and '4', and take a big free ride from '2' to '3'.

kcd

PS P_V chart is my estimate based on Papp's dyno tested engine.

Slickhanz

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1391, on January 14th, 2013, 04:47 PM »
Quote from element 119 on January 14th, 2013, 01:24 PM
Test update!

I can confirm that an all plastic stopper in an all plastic chamber and cylinder will propel the stopper off.
The only metals involved were the metal electrodes.

So yes there is an increase in pressure or a shock wave created by the discharge and should rule out a completely Electro-magnetic repulsion.

element 119
Most of the videos I have watched, that show speed variance, it seems the cylinder coil fields are manipulated.  I am not saying this thing is a solenoid by conventional methods. I.e. the coils drive the metal piston directly by magnetism as a traditional solenoid would work.  Is this the electro-magnetic repulsion u speak of?  Are you trying to eliminate the coils or are u trying to simplify the timing?  Just curious.  If this setup is going to be used to drive a generator then one would still require a piston rod with considerable strength.  I'm working on some electromagnets and I have access to magnetic fluid. I'm hoping that I can put the fluid in a clear sealed canister and see if the electromagnetic profile can be seen. 1st will be a test with the plasmerg coil setup  and then I will be modifying the coils from there to see if I can make a variant of the coil setup for, what I feel, could be a better profile of the chamber.  

Tim

Axil

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1392, on January 14th, 2013, 06:49 PM »Last edited on January 14th, 2013, 07:17 PM by Axil
Quote from k c dias on January 14th, 2013, 02:15 PM
Quote from Axil on January 14th, 2013, 12:38 PM
From vortex:
Axil Axil Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:34:33 -0800

The noble gases are not consumed. They revert back to their concentrated
clustered state (think buckyballs).

The next cycle starts out with the concentrated clustered noble gases which
expand again under the stimulation of the next spark discharge.
Axil,

This may sound nutty, but I have been looking on the net to find the answer to: When a volume of water is put in a position to do work due to its expansion upon freezing, is the work performed accounted for?  Is the 'phase change work' free?  Of course the heat of fusion must be removed to form the ice, and then returned to melt the ice, but is the work performed accounted for?

Suppose the expansion of the concentrated clustered noble gases is a change of state, the energy to cause this transition analogous to the heat of fusion for ice.  This would account for the change in pressure, at constant volume, state 1 to state 2 on the attached P_V chart.  State 2 to state 3 is the isentropic expansion of the gas, 3 to 4 is the reversion back to the concentrated clustered state, and 5 to 1 is the nearly isobaric (for all practical purposes) compression back to top dead center.

Put some energy in at '1', take it back out at '3' and '4', and take a big free ride from '2' to '3'.

kcd

PS P_V chart is my estimate based on Papp's dyno tested engine.
Over unity energy might come about when the x-ray photons lower the coulomb barrier during the cluster explosion chain reaction process. “Barrier suppression ionization” changes the way charge attraction and repulsion work; that is, it supresses it thereby modifing the vacuum energy.



When the cluster explodes (a big free ride from '2' to '3') and the cluster is destroyed, then the rule of electrostatic charge repulsion returns back to normal (3 to 4).

The bigger the cluster that can be fabricated, the more energy is derived from the cluster explosion chain reaction process because the cluster stays together for a longer time and therefore more energy can be pulled out of the vacuum.

Noble gas cluster creation and destruction must be an ongoing process in the Papp cylinder.



By the way, lowering the coulomb barrier is where the energy from cold fusion comes from.

BobN

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1393, on January 14th, 2013, 07:11 PM »
Quote from Axil on January 14th, 2013, 06:49 PM
Quote from k c dias on January 14th, 2013, 02:15 PM
Quote from Axil on January 14th, 2013, 12:38 PM
From vortex:
Axil Axil Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:34:33 -0800

The noble gases are not consumed. They revert back to their concentrated
clustered state (think buckyballs).

The next cycle starts out with the concentrated clustered noble gases which
expand again under the stimulation of the next spark discharge.
Axil,

This may sound nutty, but I have been looking on the net to find the answer to: When a volume of water is put in a position to do work due to its expansion upon freezing, is the work performed accounted for?  Is the 'phase change work' free?  Of course the heat of fusion must be removed to form the ice, and then returned to melt the ice, but is the work performed accounted for?

Suppose the expansion of the concentrated clustered noble gases is a change of state, the energy to cause this transition analogous to the heat of fusion for ice.  This would account for the change in pressure, at constant volume, state 1 to state 2 on the attached P_V chart.  State 2 to state 3 is the isentropic expansion of the gas, 3 to 4 is the reversion back to the concentrated clustered state, and 5 to 1 is the nearly isobaric (for all practical purposes) compression back to top dead center.

Put some energy in at '1', take it back out at '3' and '4', and take a big free ride from '2' to '3'.

kcd

PS P_V chart is my estimate based on Papp's dyno tested engine.
Over unity energy might come about when the x-ray photons lower the coulomb barrier during the cluster explosion chain reaction process. “Barrier suppression ionization” changes the way charge attraction and repulsion work; that is, it supresses it thereby modifing the vacuum energy.

When the cluster explodes (a big free ride from '2' to '3') and the cluster is destroyed, then the rule of electrostatic charge repulsion returns back to normal (3 to 4).

The bigger the cluster that can be fabricated, the more energy is derived from the cluster explosion chain reaction process because the cluster stays together for a longer time and therefore more energy can be pulled out of the vacuum.

Noble gas cluster creation and destruction must be an ongoing process in the Papp cylinder.

By the way, lowering the coulomb barrier is where the energy from cold fusion comes from.
Axil

This sounds quite interesting and a good possibility. If Xenon is the gas reacting in this manner, what are the other gases doing. It seems like they could be eliminated or do you think they are also reacting in this manner.

BobN

Axil

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1394, on January 14th, 2013, 07:15 PM »Last edited on January 14th, 2013, 11:14 PM by Axil
We all learned in high school science classes about three states of matter: solid, liquid, and gaseous. Liquids were described as the bridge between gases and solids, possessing a definite volume but no definite shape, compared to gases which have neither, and solids which have both. Those who continued on in science learned about a fourth and -- from a universal perspective -- more common form of matter called plasma, which is an ionized gas.

In recent times, scientists have added to this list yet another form of matter -- aggregates of atoms packed into spherically shaped objects called "clusters." Numbering as few as three or as many as a million individual atoms in size, these tiny bits of matter serve as a bridge between gases and bulk phase materials (liquids and solids), and if you visit the chemistry, physics, or materials sciences departments of any major research institution today, you are almost certain to find someone who is working with them.



http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/122615/cluster

Clusters can be formed from any element on the periodic chart. They can be composed of a single type of atom -- an "elemental cluster" -- or they can be composed of two or more different types of atoms or molecules. Depending on their composition, they can be metallic or non-metallic. There are electrically neutral clusters, and there are electrically-charged "ionic" clusters.

What all clusters have in common, however, is their in-between size: they are too large to be thought of as a molecule but too small to be classified as a liquid or a solid. Consequently, clusters frequently exhibit physical and chemical properties not seen in bulk phase materials -- properties that scientists hope to exploit in a broad number of areas.

For chemists, an area considered by many to be a holy grail is the study of matter as it evolves from the gas to the liquid state. New knowledge about this transition is expected to come from a better understanding of the formation and structure of ionic clusters.

Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion.

As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a liquid or a solid.
 
Three common ways exist to produce clusters:

a) - Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is started.

It is possible that this cooling process may be going on in the Papp gas mix as some of the noble gases is cooling another one of the noble gases through collision; a sort of moderation.

b) - Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. The released atoms or molecules are partially ionized and form plasma. Similar like in the gas aggregation sources the plasma is cooled by present rare gas and cluster formation is achieved

c) - Supersonic cluster sources: A gas under high pressure is expanded adiabatically through a small nozzle. This is how noble gases are liquefied.

Could noble gases form clusters when they are introduced from the syringe into the vacuum of the cylinder?



To enhance the clustering effect, a cylinder/piston design might be engineered to perform this function by reconditioning the noble gases by driving them through a supersonic nozzle into a vacuum as part of the firing cycle. Or a turboexpander might be used to condition and cool the noble gases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboexpander




Axil

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1396, on January 14th, 2013, 07:24 PM »Last edited on January 14th, 2013, 07:31 PM by Axil
Quote from BobN on January 14th, 2013, 07:11 PM
Quote from Axil on January 14th, 2013, 06:49 PM
Quote from k c dias on January 14th, 2013, 02:15 PM
Quote from Axil on January 14th, 2013, 12:38 PM
From vortex:
Axil Axil Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:34:33 -0800

The noble gases are not consumed. They revert back to their concentrated
clustered state (think buckyballs).

The next cycle starts out with the concentrated clustered noble gases which
expand again under the stimulation of the next spark discharge.
Axil,

This may sound nutty, but I have been looking on the net to find the answer to: When a volume of water is put in a position to do work due to its expansion upon freezing, is the work performed accounted for?  Is the 'phase change work' free?  Of course the heat of fusion must be removed to form the ice, and then returned to melt the ice, but is the work performed accounted for?

Suppose the expansion of the concentrated clustered noble gases is a change of state, the energy to cause this transition analogous to the heat of fusion for ice.  This would account for the change in pressure, at constant volume, state 1 to state 2 on the attached P_V chart.  State 2 to state 3 is the isentropic expansion of the gas, 3 to 4 is the reversion back to the concentrated clustered state, and 5 to 1 is the nearly isobaric (for all practical purposes) compression back to top dead center.

Put some energy in at '1', take it back out at '3' and '4', and take a big free ride from '2' to '3'.

kcd

PS P_V chart is my estimate based on Papp's dyno tested engine.
Over unity energy might come about when the x-ray photons lower the coulomb barrier during the cluster explosion chain reaction process. “Barrier suppression ionization” changes the way charge attraction and repulsion work; that is, it supresses it thereby modifing the vacuum energy.

When the cluster explodes (a big free ride from '2' to '3') and the cluster is destroyed, then the rule of electrostatic charge repulsion returns back to normal (3 to 4).

The bigger the cluster that can be fabricated, the more energy is derived from the cluster explosion chain reaction process because the cluster stays together for a longer time and therefore more energy can be pulled out of the vacuum.

Noble gas cluster creation and destruction must be an ongoing process in the Papp cylinder.

By the way, lowering the coulomb barrier is where the energy from cold fusion comes from.
Axil

This sounds quite interesting and a good possibility. If Xenon is the gas reacting in this manner, what are the other gases doing. It seems like they could be eliminated or do you think they are also reacting in this manner.

BobN
More than one noble gas in the mix can form a complex cluster. Also, some noble gases may catalyze cluster formation in other noble gases; more research is required to give us an answer.

Papp developed this stuff over decades and he came up with the Papp noble gas mix; he could be right after all.

vrand01

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1397, on January 14th, 2013, 08:28 PM »
John Rohner's, 11/19/2009, Patent Application US20110113772 references the Klostermann, 2006 Patent #7076950.


Plasmic transition process motor


John does not use the electrolyzing (water in the humidity?) air as Klostermann uses, nor does he use the electrolyzing of the 20% water specified by Papp in his first patent.  Klostermann does not specify the amount of humidity of the air so more testing would be required to determine the minimum percentage of water.

John does say in his patent application that hydrogen is used for speeding up the reaction or generating additional power for larger engines.

So we have seen videos of working test devices from Papp, and Klostermann that needed water/humidity to operate.  No video's from John Rohner.  Unknown if Bob Rohner uses or needs to electrolyze water in his device?

Cheers



element 119

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1398, on January 14th, 2013, 09:39 PM »
Quote from Slickhanz on January 14th, 2013, 04:47 PM
Quote from element 119 on January 14th, 2013, 01:24 PM
Test update!

I can confirm that an all plastic stopper in an all plastic chamber and cylinder will propel the stopper off.
The only metals involved were the metal electrodes.

So yes there is an increase in pressure or a shock wave created by the discharge and should rule out a completely Electro-magnetic repulsion.

element 119
Most of the videos I have watched, that show speed variance, it seems the cylinder coil fields are manipulated.  I am not saying this thing is a solenoid by conventional methods. I.e. the coils drive the metal piston directly by magnetism as a traditional solenoid would work.  Is this the electro-magnetic repulsion u speak of?  Are you trying to eliminate the coils or are u trying to simplify the timing?  Just curious.  If this setup is going to be used to drive a generator then one would still require a piston rod with considerable strength.  I'm working on some electromagnets and I have access to magnetic fluid. I'm hoping that I can put the fluid in a clear sealed canister and see if the electromagnetic profile can be seen. 1st will be a test with the plasmerg coil setup  and then I will be modifying the coils from there to see if I can make a variant of the coil setup for, what I feel, could be a better profile of the chamber.  

Tim
No I didn’t have any kind of exterior coils on the test setup. It is just a pvc pipe cap to fit a 2-inch pvc pipe. I hot glued the pvc cap to a board and it contains the electrodes. I also placed about 3 inches in length of pvc pipe into the cap and then put a pvc pipe plug onto the pipe (snug but not to sung fit). There was some talk that there might a kind of induced magnetic repulsion between the metal chamber and a metal piston.

Russ showed that by placing a plastic cup on top of his metal chamber that the cup would fly up and hit the ceiling. I just wanted to take it a step further and use an all-plastic setup. Just to confirm it was not a magnetic repulsion (I use that loosely).      

Yes you would still need to use a safer metal setup to drive a generator.

This was just theory testing using air only.

element 119

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1399, on January 14th, 2013, 11:22 PM »
Quote from element 119 on January 14th, 2013, 09:39 PM
Quote from Slickhanz on January 14th, 2013, 04:47 PM
Quote from element 119 on January 14th, 2013, 01:24 PM
Test update!

I can confirm that an all plastic stopper in an all plastic chamber and cylinder will propel the stopper off.
The only metals involved were the metal electrodes.

So yes there is an increase in pressure or a shock wave created by the discharge and should rule out a completely Electro-magnetic repulsion.

element 119
Most of the videos I have watched, that show speed variance, it seems the cylinder coil fields are manipulated.  I am not saying this thing is a solenoid by conventional methods. I.e. the coils drive the metal piston directly by magnetism as a traditional solenoid would work.  Is this the electro-magnetic repulsion u speak of?  Are you trying to eliminate the coils or are u trying to simplify the timing?  Just curious.  If this setup is going to be used to drive a generator then one would still require a piston rod with considerable strength.  I'm working on some electromagnets and I have access to magnetic fluid. I'm hoping that I can put the fluid in a clear sealed canister and see if the electromagnetic profile can be seen. 1st will be a test with the plasmerg coil setup  and then I will be modifying the coils from there to see if I can make a variant of the coil setup for, what I feel, could be a better profile of the chamber.  

Tim
No I didn’t have any kind of exterior coils on the test setup. It is just a pvc pipe cap to fit a 2-inch pvc pipe. I hot glued the pvc cap to a board and it contains the electrodes. I also placed about 3 inches in length of pvc pipe into the cap and then put a pvc pipe plug onto the pipe (snug but not to sung fit). There was some talk that there might a kind of induced magnetic repulsion between the metal chamber and a metal piston.

Russ showed that by placing a plastic cup on top of his metal chamber that the cup would fly up and hit the ceiling. I just wanted to take it a step further and use an all-plastic setup. Just to confirm it was not a magnetic repulsion (I use that loosely).      

Yes you would still need to use a safer metal setup to drive a generator.

This was just theory testing using air only.

element 119
good works! thanks for posting. ~Russ