Chlorine gas is also very deadly and is one gas used for chemical warfare. If this one is used, which I would say no to, please be extremely careful!!!!!!!!!!!! :angel::angel::angel:Quote from Chan on January 5th, 2013, 06:29 AM FYI:
Chlorine gas reacts with water to give hypochlorous acid
and hydrochloric acid
Cl2 + H2O -> HOCl + HCl
Chan
chan, thanks. i think just knowing we are doing some good here is good enough... maybe some one else can patent it and add my name to it... :)
everyone else... up until the last couple of posted have been really good information.
i have terry's contact info. i will see if i can get a hold of him.
FYI i have talked with Klostermann on the phone. he was not really happy with me "exploiting" the technology... i found it interesting and the conversation was interesting. over all it was interesting... lol
seemed like a nice guy but kinda came across slightly threatening. but he did invite me to his place... i did not except. told him i wanted to show others this tech as that's the only way to get it in to the public... he wanted to protect his hard work and life savings... i don't blame him.
none the less. i think that AL 3"x3" cylinder did in did have some induction from that discharge... but i may be wrong... guess i will just need to try it... lol
i also found it funny that i have the same idea about the closed "paint shaker" with a magnet on the outside of the closed cylinder on my first couple of videos of the papp tech. lol the same idea... to funny.
looked like this:
none the less...
FYI: in the timer circuit i will need to add some stuff to disable the charging circuit from the test fixture when in auto... still working on it...
will get some stuff done but I'm not getting much done with the cold weather...
going to clean up the basement lab si i can find some stuff and make more room in the outside lab...
PS. ordering the neutron detectors asap!
god bless!! ~Russ
Replicated this with spectacular results:
http://nickelpower.org/2012/12/24/can-cold-fusion-be-this-easy/
Chan
Hello everyone!
Although only just joined I've bee watching for many months and Russ has my total admiration for all his achievements, I am not in any way a scientist, but having watched you, the Rohners, and a few others, I am coming to the conclusion that IF the papp engine is real, the published "PAPP MIXTURE" of gasses is a red herring and there is something in the mixture he never revealed.
I enclose a link posted on Rossi's blog today, maybe no use but I thought interesting that the plasma forms at different temperatures in different salt solutions
https://www.youtube.com/embed/TEceEHgaXoU?version=3
Some one in the group wanted the name of the book Bob R. said Joe Papp kept handy The name is Radioactive substances and their radiations which you can find at
http;//ia700508.us archives.org/17/items/radioactivesubst00ruthuoft/radioactivesubs/t00ruthuoft.pdf Hope it helps Ed Hemphill Ps I ask Bob if there wore any other books that J.Papp kept handy and said not that he remebers.
I am happy you are now posting.Quote from drew on January 5th, 2013, 10:23 AM Hello everyone!
Although only just joined I've bee watching for many months and Russ has my total admiration for all his achievements, I am not in any way a scientist, but having watched you, the Rohners, and a few others, I am coming to the conclusion that IF the papp engine is real, the published "PAPP MIXTURE" of gasses is a red herring and there is something in the mixture he never revealed.
I enclose a link posted on Rossi's blog today, maybe no use but I thought interesting that the plasma forms at different temperatures in different salt solutions
https://www.youtube.com/embed/TEceEHgaXoU?version=3
I beleive that that secret thing is the OH ion, which has been shown to be important in the cavatation process.
The Cathode
First off some details, the shape of the cathode is all important in the production of a spark.
At 3:20 of the video, the experimenter demonstrates the initiation of an arc discharge based on the height that the cathode is raised in the liquid. The higher that the tip of the cathode is raised in the liquid, the more likely is the initiation of arcing.
The arc is formed exclusively at the very tip of the cathode as the cathode is raised higher in the liquid.
The question that naturally arises is as follows: Why does the arc form exactly at the tip of the cathode and not higher up on the cathode which is higher in the liquid than the tip is?
The answer to this puzzle is that an arc will form at the point of high curvature on the cathode. In other words, I mean that the arc will form on the sharpest point on the cathode.
The cathode in this case is a tungsten rod with a flat tip circumscribed with a very sharp edge.
The shape and material of the cathode, the gap width, and the temperatures and pressures existing in the spark chamber determine the voltage that is necessary to produce a spark.
The voltage needed for sparking is called the electrode voltage requirement. In general, an electrode which has sharp edges has a lower voltage requirement than one with a blunt or rounded edge. Sharp edges on the electrodes tend to concentrate ionization and thus lower the voltage requirement to produce a spark.
Electrodes erode away with use; rounding off the edges and causing as much as a 50 percent increase in the voltage requirements to produce a spark. Erosion also widens the gap between the electrodes. Both of these changes increase the electrode’s voltage requirements and when the voltage required to produce a spark finally exceeds the output of the ignition system, the electrode will no longer spark.
In conclusion, electron emission of the cathode is promoted by a sharp edge, the ionization effects are greatest at the electrode edges.
Cavatation
This spark production based on the hight of the tip of the cathode in the liquid shows that cavatation is occurring at the tip of the cathode.
Cavatation is sensitive to the pressure of the liquid. Ion production during cavatation will enable the initiation of an arc.
Cavatation and sparking are symbiotic. Cavatation is occurring during spark discharge, and the initiation of sparking will cause cavatation to begin.
It is spark initiated cavatation that begins the production the Oxygen (O) hydrogen (H) OH ions.
At 23:20 of the video, the experimenter states that the concentration of OH ions gradually accumulate in the liquid for hours during electric arcing.
This accumulation of OH ions may be important in the Papp reaction.
Furthermore, Papp may have stabilized the OH ions for long term storage by adding chlorine gas to the OH crystals by forming Hypochlorous acid (HClO)
When HCIO is subjected to spark discharge, it decomposes into chlorine (CL) gas and OH ions.
When the spark discharge is removed, the CL and OH ions will recombine back to form Hypochlorous acid
In this case, once the engine is running, the full voltage needed to ignite the (smaller) quantity of gases is obtained from the electrodes in the other cylinder of the pair.
Thus it can be seen that electricity generated in one cylinder during a portion of the cycle is transferred to the other cylinder to assist in the excitation of the gaseous mixture in the latter. Note that this electricity is regulated to maintain a constant in-engine current. It should be noted that twenty four volts from the generator is always present on electrodes 63 and 65 during operation to provide for pre-excitement of the gases.
Distributor 99 has two wipers 99A and 99B and supplies three pulses to each cylinder per cycle. Wipers 99A and 99B are 180.degree. out of phase with each other and each operates to supply pulses to its respective cylinder from TDC to 120.degree. thereafter. More pulses are desirable and therefore a better distributor arrangement (shown in FIG. 14) may be used.
For each cylinder, it is calculated that the excitation as described above causes the gases to separate into layers, the lowest atomic weight gas in the mixture, namely helium, being disposed generally in the center of each chamber, neon forming the next layer, and so on until we reach xenon which is in physical contact with the chamber walls. The input current (power) to do this is the calculated potential of the gas mixture. Since helium is located in the center of the chamber, the focal point of the electrode discharges and the discharges between the anode and cathode is in the helium layer when the piston is near TDC. As the piston moves slightly below TDC, the electrons from electrodes 63 and 65 will no longer strike the tip of the piston, but rather will intersect in the center of the cylinder (this is called "focal point electron and particle collision") as will the alpha, beta and gamma rays from the anode and cathode. Of course, the helium is in this exact spot and is heavily ionized at that time. Thus the electrodes together with the source of electrical power connected thereto constitute means for ionizing the inert gas. It is calculated that as a result of all the aforementioned interactions, an ignition discharge occurs in which the helium splits into hydrogen in a volume not larger than 2 or 3 times 10.sup.-6 cubic millimeters at a temperature of approximately 100,000,000.degree. F. Of course this temperature is confined to a very small space and the layering of the gases insulates the cylinder walls therefrom. Such heat excites adjacent helium such that a plasma occurs. Consequently, there is a minute fusion reaction in the helium consisting of the energy conversion of a single helium atom, which releases sufficient energy to drive the piston in that chamber toward BDC with a force similar in magnitude to that generated in a cylinder of a conventional internal combustion engine. Electrodes 63 and 65 extend into the argon layer while each piston is in its BDC to TDC stroke so as to pick up some of the current flowing in that layer. It may take a cycle or two for the gases in the cylinders to become sufficiently excited for ignition to occur.
yes this would be correct. that's why we need a fly wheel. or 2 apposing pistons.Quote from FaradayEZ on January 3rd, 2013, 10:55 PM I'm afraid that then the piston would be staying stuck at the Top Down Position, the furthest away from the ignition?Quote Russ:
i think what I'm going to do is connect the double acting cylinder (top side) to the bottom of the chamber and fill the entire chamber with the gas. This will release the vacuum and allow fully travail of the piston. (with some restriction on pip size) with this i will try a coil on with that big magnet on the piston to see how much voltage / current we can make... now ideally i could connect 2 pistons together or... connect a flywheel/system like tin man's pulsar idea...
yeah?
~Russ
From the latter Papp patentQuote In this case, once the engine is running, the full voltage needed to ignite the (smaller) quantity of gases is obtained from the electrodes in the other cylinder of the pair.These sections of the patent states that the feedback current gathered by the electrodes can be used to power the next cylinder in the firing order.Quote Thus it can be seen that electricity generated in one cylinder during a portion of the cycle is transferred to the other cylinder to assist in the excitation of the gaseous mixture in the latter. Note that this electricity is regulated to maintain a constant in-engine current. It should be noted that twenty four volts from the generator is always present on electrodes 63 and 65 during operation to provide for pre-excitement of the gases.This section of the patent states that Papp uses multiple sparks per cylinder firing cycle.Quote Distributor 99 has two wipers 99A and 99B and supplies three pulses to each cylinder per cycle. Wipers 99A and 99B are 180.degree. out of phase with each other and each operates to supply pulses to its respective cylinder from TDC to 120.degree. thereafter. More pulses are desirable and therefore a better distributor arrangement (shown in FIG. 14) may be used.
THis part of the patent is interesting as theory.Quote For each cylinder, it is calculated that the excitation as described above causes the gases to separate into layers, the lowest atomic weight gas in the mixture, namely helium, being disposed generally in the center of each chamber, neon forming the next layer, and so on until we reach xenon which is in physical contact with the chamber walls. The input current (power) to do this is the calculated potential of the gas mixture. Since helium is located in the center of the chamber, the focal point of the electrode discharges and the discharges between the anode and cathode is in the helium layer when the piston is near TDC. As the piston moves slightly below TDC, the electrons from electrodes 63 and 65 will no longer strike the tip of the piston, but rather will intersect in the center of the cylinder (this is called "focal point electron and particle collision") as will the alpha, beta and gamma rays from the anode and cathode. Of course, the helium is in this exact spot and is heavily ionized at that time. Thus the electrodes together with the source of electrical power connected thereto constitute means for ionizing the inert gas. It is calculated that as a result of all the aforementioned interactions, an ignition discharge occurs in which the helium splits into hydrogen in a volume not larger than 2 or 3 times 10.sup.-6 cubic millimeters at a temperature of approximately 100,000,000.degree. F. Of course this temperature is confined to a very small space and the layering of the gases insulates the cylinder walls therefrom. Such heat excites adjacent helium such that a plasma occurs. Consequently, there is a minute fusion reaction in the helium consisting of the energy conversion of a single helium atom, which releases sufficient energy to drive the piston in that chamber toward BDC with a force similar in magnitude to that generated in a cylinder of a conventional internal combustion engine. Electrodes 63 and 65 extend into the argon layer while each piston is in its BDC to TDC stroke so as to pick up some of the current flowing in that layer. It may take a cycle or two for the gases in the cylinders to become sufficiently excited for ignition to occur.
I very seriously doubt that they are causing helium to undergo fission, resulting in hydrogen.
I have an experiment that might begin to address the nature of the Papp reaction, if it is actually the result of a LENR type process (which is the only way this type of reactor could be of any utility, IMO)
I very seriously doubt that they are causing helium to undergo fission, resulting in hydrogen.
Papp bases his fuel mixing process on making helium fusion/fission possible.Quote I very seriously doubt that they are causing helium to undergo fission, resulting in hydrogen.
If this nuclear process is not possible, Papp has wasted a good deal of the verbal hand waving contained in his patent to an impossible nuclear process. However, I currently beleive this helium fusion/fission nuclear process is not possible.In Russ's Popper, remember that helium works better than hydrogen in producing piston movment. Helium LENR is far more difficult to acheive than hydrogen based LENR. This will be a problem for your new LENR theory.Quote I have an experiment that might begin to address the nature of the Papp reaction, if it is actually the result of a LENR type process (which is the only way this type of reactor could be of any utility, IMO)
For each cylinder, it is calculated that the excitation as described above causes the gases to separate into layers, the lowest atomic weight gas in the mixture, namely helium, being disposed generally in the center of each chamber, neon forming the next layer, and so on until we reach xenon which is in physical contact with the chamber walls. The input current (power) to do this is the calculated potential of the gas mixture. Since helium is located in the center of the chamber, the focal point of the electrode discharges and the discharges between the anode and cathode is in the helium layer when the piston is near TDC.
Is this the book?(warning its a huge pdf!)
http://ia700200.us.archive.org/8/items/radioactivesubst032118mbp/radioactivesubst032118mbp.pdf
If Papp thought that this axial layering of the noble gases was so reliable even in the face of multiple spark discharges and intense gas eddies produced by very rapid piston movement on microsecond timescales, how could he possibly expect to precisely extract a correct mixture of noble gases from a stagnant mix tank?
This inconsistency in Papp’s design thinking informs my opinion that Papp’s design for the preparation of the gas mix tank is a load of malarkey.
Replicated this with spectacular results:
http://nickelpower.org/2012/12/24/can-cold-fusion-be-this-easy/
Chan
Bob just uploaded a new video ( 1 – 1 – 2013 )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpzwmOfHh4s
Bob is simple amazing! :D
I hope he gets first to market with his engine. :rolleyes:
element 119
Bob just uploaded a new video ( 1 – 1 – 2013 )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpzwmOfHh4s
Bob is simple amazing! :D
I hope he gets first to market with his engine. :rolleyes:
For Profit Organization and will not talk about fuel mix, voltages or pulse train... All the things we are missing. Now I see why. Too bad Russ couldn't convince him to open source those last final details--then we all would win. Bob could still make a small fortune helping machine shops assemble working units.Quote from element 119 on January 6th, 2013, 03:09 PM Bob just uploaded a new video ( 1 – 1 – 2013 )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpzwmOfHh4s
Bob is simple amazing! :D
I hope he gets first to market with his engine. :rolleyes:
During a piston's movement from BDC to TDC, the gases are caused to circulate in the cylinder by the change in the polarity of the coils, which occurs at BDC. During such circulation, the gases remain layered, causing the argon atoms to be relatively close to each other, thereby optimizing the conductivity of the argon. This conductivity optimization is further enhanced by a mild choking effect that is due to the magnetic fields. The circulation of the highly conductive argon results in a continuous cutting of the magnetic lines of force so that the current flows through the electrodes. This production of electricity is similar to the rotating copper wire cutting the magnetic lines of force in a conventional generator except that the rotating copper wire is replaced by the rotating, highly conductive argon. The amount of electricity that can be produced in this manner is a function of how many magnetic field lines are available to be cut. If one of the coils, or all three of the coils or two adjacent coils were energized, there would be only one field with electricity produced at each end. By energizing the top and the bottom coil, two separate fields are produced, with electricity produced at four points. A five coil system, if there were sufficient space, would produce three fields with the top, bottom and middle coils energized. Six points for electricity production would result. The number of coils that can be installed on a given cylinder is a function of space limitations. The recombination of gas atoms during the BDC to TDC phase causes the radiation of electrical energy which also provides a minor portion of the electricity that the electrode picks up. Additional non-grounded electrodes in each cylinder would result in more electricity being tapped off. It should be noted that during the BDC to TDC phase, the anode and the cathode are also in the argon layer and, like the electrodes, they pick up electricity, which charges the capacitors around the cylinder.
The circulation of the highly conductive argon...
Interesting... Are any or all of the other Nobel Gases conductive as well? I'm pretty sure Neon is and I would guess xenon is too if it is used in photo-flash tubes.Quote The circulation of the highly conductive argon...
I wonder if using Argon when welding as a shielding gas has another side effect as well. If it is highly conductive, it would spread out the arc and thus the heat. Hmmm...
Sounds like something to try in the EPG too.
The circulation of the highly conductive argon results in a continuous cutting of the magnetic lines of force so that the current flows through the electrodes. This production of electricity is similar to the rotating copper wire cutting the magnetic lines of force in a conventional generator except that the rotating copper wire is replaced by the rotating, highly conductive argon.