Quote from jbignes5 on January 20th, 2018, 01:16 PM

I really don't think the copper is being used up.

We calculated that on a 140lb coil, if the copper is being used up, it might be a fraction of a gram lighter after continuous operation for a year.
So maybe we could precision weigh it before and after as a test of your hypothesis.

Stainless steel 430 insulated wire could displace copper by 40 times, thereby making SS430 more efficient than copper, and lighter with less mass, for the same electro-mechanical effect.

Interesting: A 160lb copper coil, divided by 40 times, could bring it down to just 4lb!

I'd like to allocate R&D funds for this wire and do testing.

If we look at the theory that electrons are pushed out via voltage leverage created by the quantified charge of the electron increasing because of the spin increasing, your coil being submerged in oil would also reduce ozone, it would also increase the atom decay because the atoms spin energy would keep getting transferred from the nucleus of the atom to the outer oil where the density of matter in the oil would absorb the spin in a greater time scale.

So oil would still give you open conclusions looking from my theory.

Think of the copper atoms like a planetarium model, in so much that try to see all the atoms particles in momentum and its the charge of the universe turning them because of there magnetic moment. They are as Einstein gave us a picture of E=mc²  the energy is the mass but to work the equation out properly you have to work out the momentum in relation to your position in the universe..
if you want the universe is a very large planetary gear mechanism every cog of atom turns to the charge powering it...increase the localized charge position (i.e. add a larger potential difference) and your mass has a lever prising the spinning electrons and the proton is the fulcrum.
just like a pry bar on a large rock, use a fulcrum and it lifts but must return back again when force of the lever (charge) is reduced.

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Stainless steel 430 insulated wire could displace copper by 40 times, thereby making SS430 more efficient than copper, and lighter with less mass, for the same electro-mechanical effect.

would this also stand in 304 SS??

Russ

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PS.  One power,  yes.  We should not judge.  Thanks for the reminder.  And I was not judging,  Insted I was saying that how they tested the unit was not how it operates. 
So what they did is a good exzample on how we don't mesure the output.

Sorry for the rant it was late. The problem many of us see is that sometimes something is working then for reasons we may not understand it stops working. It doesn't mean it doesn't work it means we don't understand whats wrong. It may be this is what happened to Newman's device when it was tested. Which relates to the golden rule of OU devices... if it's working do not touch anything. Build a second prototype to see if it works and then only change variables on the second device.

I can't tell you how many times I built something and something strange was happening so I adjusted some stuff never to see the same behavior again. Science never was an exact science in my opinion and it seems more like best guess.

patent referred to in WO1983 document

Quote from onepower on January 20th, 2018, 02:44 PM

Russ
Sorry for the rant it was late. The problem many of us see is that sometimes something is working then for reasons we may not understand it stops working. It doesn't mean it doesn't work it means we don't understand whats wrong. It may be this is what happened to Newman's device when it was tested. Which relates to the golden rule of OU devices... if it's working do not touch anything. Build a second prototype to see if it works and then only change variables on the second device.

I can't tell you how many times I built something and something strange was happening so I adjusted some stuff never to see the same behavior again. Science never was an exact science in my opinion and it seems more like best guess.

Exactly.!

~Russ

5 patent applications in a combined PDF

South African Patent Application # 831,296 and various articles

write up on Newman, but a lot of the links are broken

 With everyone's ideas and understanding we should be able to hash this out. The one limiting thing in all of this is that the cost of the copper is so very high. Newman talks about the reasonably larger gauge?? Definitely not 30 awg. If you read it he says that thickness is important but it is all relevant to each portion of it's makeup. Like the gauge is relevant to the length and weight. There must be a rule of thumb that can guide us in deciding what gauge to get and how much of it. Also the inner diameter was very important to Newman. Probably to facilitate the magnet's rotation.
 He also talks about there being two polarities flowing in a wire. Well from plasma physics side this would be called a plasma sheath flow. Kinda like a coax cable. An inside line of plasma surrounded by a double layer with more plasma outside of it. So in my mind the flows are directly inside of the wire in it's core, exact center of the wire and the skin effect outside flow. Both flows going in opposite directions. So remember when they said the current flows from the neg to positive, well it actually flows in both directions but one is inside of the other. Maybe this current doesn't flow evenly as well. Like it can flow more positive then negative and visa versa. Both have to be present though so in some measure there is always a dual flow.

 Just some musings to take note of...

 Nice pdf... Much better then the photo one.. a lot easier to quote from.

 Reference Birkland current:

 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Magnetic_rope.svg/262px-Magnetic_rope.svg.png

 And a nice model of an atom or magnetic particle? The real magnetic field of our Sun.:

http://holoscience.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Alfvens-heliospheric-circuit.jpg

This last one is what I think is either going on inside of a wire or just outside of it or a combination of both.

http://blog.banditobooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/snakes-image5-plasma.jpg

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Newman talks about the reasonably larger gauge?? Definitely not 30 awg.

30 AWG wire ? Newman talk about it so many times...
And yes, he do talk about AWG 5, AWG 30, AWG 38 and AWG 40 in his book and on his website very clearly and he also say very often that:

"Have you "mastered" what i have taught you ? [I must continue to ask you this question to ensure that you are simply not "memorizing" or "blindly accepting" what I am presenting in this Book.]"

Another:
"TO ALL WHO "MASTER" AND ARE INSPIRED BY WHAT I HAVE TAUGHT, IN THE REMAINDER OF THIS BOOK, I SPEAK TO YOU:
"all of the many preceeding pages of my teachings mean absolutely nothing if the major deficiencies of the world society - fear, greed, intellectual dishonesty, and lack of curiosity/intellectual aspirations - are not supplanted with superior attitudes.
"I ask you - who I seek to inspire - to please "Master" my teachings which can correct such deficiencies. It is you who must apply what I teach to the world. With such application, I will predict the possibility of world peace as well as a productive and meaningful life for all individuals."

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There must be a rule of thumb that can guide us in deciding what gauge to get and how much of it.

This is also important quote from his website "There are no real size constraints with respect to his technology and there are two methods of increasing the energy output: increase the amount of copper utilized in the conductor coil and/or increase the rpms of the commutator. "

Another Quote from his book:
The larger the unit is build, (the greater the number of copper atoms) the Greater the Power Output!

So, i would politely suggest to read the book again and if you have so much free time then maybe you could read his website from 1996 to 2009 year by year, month by month, day by day, post by post, to be honest it took me many weeks to read it all and i mean all, every link out there, it is very rare if i or someone else can find some new information out there.

So, if I summarize it 95% of all informations are out there on the internet and the other 5% have people who worked with him or recorded him on a video or a picture, article, archive information ...
This is for who ever is reading this post, if you have some of the information above, it would be very appreciated if you the reader could post it here, thank you very much.

 It's hard to master something that he himself was having a hard time with. Again this isn't gospel and you would think it is. Do not question the Great and wonderful Oz!

 If the few quotes are the only thing you got out of my post then I see the issue with most.

 Someone wrote to me about the shape of the magnetic field I have eluded to with the pictures.

 When you are talking about iron filings you are talking about matter in rigid form over a length of space. When you have that bridging it will not form in space the way you thought. It will not follow the magnetic field but bridge the two polarities of north to south. So the Bloch wall will be ignored at the junction and bridged. Matter does that, especially iron.
 All of the fields are intertwined except where they part at the apex of the north and south poles. but it is the closest we can get to the structure of the magnetic field. When we use intensified plasma we see something different as I have shown before. The difference being that the field twists around the magnet.
 Shown here in this video:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B-lKgcQJvg

Well, i guess that each and every one of us view this differently, from what i know about Newman, i believe that he know what he was doing and i don't think that he wasted his life in pursuit of something fake, that just make no sense, even if you know, that it is a fake project, then at least you would not fight for something fake and put a half a million dollars and more, on fights that took so many years for something that does not work.

I'm not trying to fight with you jbignes5. BTW, he did not talked about plasma, only that the spark will eat everything and that the spark was the limit, but he solved it, so once again, i don't believe that he had no idea of what he was doing.

 Well there were subjects that were outside of the science field at that time. Plasma physics and the likes. He didn't know because he was focusing on what he was seeing. Yes he saw sparks and he knew there was something to it.
 As for his work.. Well it is still ground breaking. Just the concept was revolutionary. That mass was the way to access the energy from space. Weather he understood it that way it is irregardless. We know that if we compress plasma it gets more intense and excited. We know this from the Iter plasma reactor. Think about how much plasma they are squeezing between the loops of that massive coil? Not only that matter seems to have condensed plasma inside of it already. That is why they (matter conductors, wires) conduct so well but that plasma is not static and is very dynamic. It can become swollen or deflated of that condensation as seen in electric discharges and heat/cold. Since plasma is highly reactive to voltage potentials you can easily set it in motion via condensation and radiant events. And this stuff can move so effortlessly and flows much like a fluid and even penetrates matter fully. It is the conductor of all space.. Even down to the atom and it's sub parts.
 The spark is strong because you are concentrating the conductor of space to facilitate the conduction across that space.

 I would like to reiterate the he did kinda know how it generally worked. He tried to define it as best as he could for the times but knowing newer observations we have grown in our understanding. The one thing that kept him from the patent was his inability to correctly explain where the energy came from. He was close but in error of some of his thinking. The whole reason why is that he chose current theories at that time and it led him astray. No biggie... We can correct it and try to prove him generally right!

So what we have is a magnet cutting the wires in a 90 degree way. Just like in Tesla's patent of the electrodynamics motor/generator that I emailed you. Tesla designed it in a way that speeds up the cutting field lines in such a way that adds the speed of the rotor to the speed of the field cores impulses around the field core. Meaning the rotor needs to be turned less to get the same output. Part of the input to the system is a prime mover that can both turn a crank and turn the rotor all in one and is ran from the output of the generator section. He generally called it a rotating transformer. Yes you need to get it up to speed but once you do if you check the rotor via taking off via a belt then it would force the generator out of sync and it would generate more from that de-syncing. There is also a magneto feeding a disruptive discharge circuit feeding the field cores. Any generation of magnetic field going around the field cores would be absorbed by the cores and forms a sudo north and south poles across the encircling field cores. This magnetic field in the field cores syncs to the rotor after the high voltage blasts create huge magnetic moment in the rotor coils, which should be shorted till you want to bleed of the current to a min level (usually timing is involved here). Any time you retard the shaft it will force more lines of force to cut the rotor coils and generate huge current flows in the shorted rotor coils. Since we should use very high voltage for the field coils the interior of the generator section will be highly excited and plasma will be sucked inside the interior of the field coil. The field wires are to shape the field inside of the field cores. The density of lines in that area will be immense and will cut the heavy rotor coils and generate huge currents in the coils. Until it is let out it will form a huge magnetic field which should link up to the field already circulating around the field cores.
 
The field cores has been studied by a great many people who have been labeled hoaxers.
But if you look at Tesla's spinning egg experiment you can see how some could generate from that. Someone built a ring with wire wrapped around it like Tesla's example of a brushless AC motor. Yet Tesla's device was never brought up in the arguments that is was not a hoax. It was and is a real phenomena.

 We can still use a lot of copper in the field coils but the design should be swapped over to Tesla's because I am betting he optimized it already. Knowing his capability of mental building of prototypes and even optimizing them in his head.
 But thats just my take on it....
 Again Russ Please look at the patent I showed you. Look at the unit and it's parts. All of them can be put on a shaft and looped...
 To ease the emissions inside of the field cores one can ground the rotor to a virtual ground or antenna. This gives an exit for the plasma as it is released after condensing in the field cores and expanding out.

 This last statement is for your days of the Papp angine. You were using the same thing then. Cap dump into a small cavity designed to expand out after discharge. The gas was to eliminate the ozone creation and reaction. The spark discharge is the condensation of plasma and the after effect is it expanding back out or a radiant event.

 Your device sparks and condenses plasma then releases it. The huge coil is highly charged and attracts the plasma which condenses around and in that coils in between spaces which then can be released back out generating more then is needed to recharge that huge coil.

 One aspect of that setup is putting a generating loop above the coil and then below it. Would it generate even more from the expanding plasma coming out of each end of the solenoid? They are probably charged deferentially like north=positive and sound being negative? Put a primary of a transformer across those two detector coils and get a flow developing through the transformer.??? On the other hand it might disrupt the magnetic field being generated this way. Maybe that is why Newman wanted a loose coupling for the load coil.

@ jbigness
John you could be a 100% bang on, but what your not grasping is that your preaching in a mosque about Christianity...
Its not the topics of what Newman wanted to say in his book.
We want to discuss what Newman said....
Once we have totally mastered that then we have the ability to compare other ideas....
Once we have mastered Newman's ideas we will have a running window coil motor that is self running or producing a great gain in total output as a whole measurement...until then I for one do want to see this topic trying to improve on an un-replicated idea.
Even though I think we can hopefully with your help at that stage...
Regards

on the whole you are starting to add comments to newmans design so I for one can see you have been reading the book.
Keep reading it as if Newmans book was the only answer...then when the time is right let you brilliant mind flow with ideas how the working newmans motor can be developed..

 I understand but for one thing. If you were saying that Newman said 3-3=6 and then say just listen to him then why exactly. Where we know where the errors are we should put in the facts we have now. He even said that the devices in his patents were so poorly put together and designed that they could barely get over the hump.
 There have been many many replications of the Newman motor. Many.. And they work to a degree. Where they were not working was in certain areas which I have tried to elude to. All of which errors make the device extremely hard to tune as we have seen.

 As for reading his book it was done yesterday.. The questions I am asking you are really rhetorical to me but only asked of you guys to get you started in the right direction. I understand that Russ wants to finish this but when you start seeing the problems Newman was having to keep the motor/generator running consistently one has to wonder where the snags are and how to improve on them.

 Unfortunately my work on Tesla's Motor/Gen got halted by a move my family had to make and we lost a good lot of our stuff. Including most of my work I had done on the field cores. I think I have pictures on OverUnity.com in a buried thread. It cost me 50 just for the solid soft iron bar to be made into a split circle(half). This was to facilitate a clam shell type design for the gen section. It would also let me use coil cartridges to experiment with. But alas I lost all that work.

 Sorry for posting about my thoughts on this if it is unwanted. I just can't help myself and need to get this stuff out of my mind before it drives me nutz.

I'd like to step my. Foot in here as I have been reading this thred as posts have been posted. 

This is a hard one.  Becuse some. Of us are trying to stick to the book and others are pointing out newmans interpratation as wrong. 

In the end.  We each have our prospective.  And see diffrent things the same and same things differently.  This is our free will to think. On our own. 

I just wanted to say I'm glad everyone of you is here.  This has to be one of the finest group of people working to agree and dissagre on points to make progross in this feild. 

With that said. 

We all agree that we are looking at this stuff slightly diffrent. 

And to your responce john yes we can agree to disagree.  Becuse on the end It will all come togther and we will both see each others perspective and they both might be right. 

So.  Altho this thred is supose to be newman hard core...  I'm open to all preospectives.  As long as we all can agree to be open and not to shun others for getting off track from newman only...

If we start a another  thred it will jist get even more complicated...

So.  Let's keep in mined where we are headed.  And keep sharing our preospectives. 

But don't let the newman only thinking bother you.  Becuse we must see what newman saw before we can geet to far off the track... 

God bless you all and keep going!!! More testing tomarrow! 

~Russ

John, this will help you get your point across:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkeland_current

I studied the crap out of these.  Here's an excellent talk about them from the thunderbolts.info videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIFR67sckK0

These things layer themselves at perfect intervals and I always thought if we had the precision we could build devices that collect these currents directly, we just need the formula that predicts where the layers will be.

 I was looking for that one thank you!

 I think that Newman was generally correct on the fields if you omit the bloch wall deviation. Those sheaths travel both inside of the wire and outside as well in a pair (+,-). The one inside I think is a different gauge then the outside ones. I'll have to see if I can draw it up.. Not to good of an artist but I'll try...

 By the way that is the group I am pushing everywhere and helping them to understand the process.. They have taken many of my suggestions and tried it both theory and experiment as well. It's been very rewarding to help them out, not in the sense of money but rewarding in knowing that my discussion on their boards got good responses and actually I think part of my work paralleled their own and they decided to show the work... I didn't get cited for it but I knew it was my contribution was being shown... Very exciting...

 Berklins stuff is revolutionary stuff. I did work on the plasma structure around our earth and how it layers even as far out on the solar plane. I cited that the solar wind was plasma packed between primarily charged hydrogen flowing in the solar wind and it's movement is from the expansion of the plasma outward. Jupiter and the rings in it's atmosphere is very telling about the flows of the solar wind as it goes by planets and how it can influence the atmosphere as it flows by. Check the opposing flows in the atmosphere of Jupiter to see the counter rotating flows...

 They did a nice piece on Suspicious Observers channel about where our solar system is going in the galaxy... You might want to see that as well...

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hilN8eNp930&t=102s


 As a side note Russ:

 I am not discounting anything that Newman said. I was just commenting at how from my knowledge he might have been wrong about a few things. Things that bothered me that I suspect were in error. That is all.. For the most part I think he stumbled upon something we ignored. He tried his best to understand it and well, got some of it wrong. If we don't point out the problems then what happens when you try to talk to others and convince them of his concept? I don't think you could defend something that can be proven wrong from current knowledge. We should attempt to correct it and see if it brings a better understanding so that we do not go up against the very same thing he suffered throughout trying to impart his concept to the people of the professional level.
 I would like it to be very clear that I think Newman was conceptually right but not in all of the details. I'm just trying to point those sticky parts out...

 P.s. Russ do you know him? You know who I am asking about right? I saw you! Tag, you're it!

ok....so I've got the go ahead to talk plasma too...if john wants to bring it in.

In the main john I agree with you....that's right  I do agree but.....but
I have already said to Russ I think that the galaxies have magnetism between them...they are all connected. with that magnetism it begets charge/electric
I have said to you john and on this thread, the electrons are pushed to the outer circumference and the center of the wire has positive atoms.

If we take it that plasma surrounds our coil then the field created and the Pinch effect would increase the matter in the coil. Because the electrons would be free to travel around the circuit but any ions would be stuck in the coil never being allowed out, they would be neutral in charge.

so using your theory as I understand it you are stating the coils mass will increase, but very slowly.

where by I could use your ideas reverse them to say that the matter was first produced/formed by plasma in the universe and gravity formed it to a sphere. Hence planets and stars group into areas of higher charge we see later as galaxies. This happened until the potential moving through the localized universe equalized enough to stop matter production/forming and allowed gravity to become the dominant force...where upon we came along took a small piece of that matter and put it back into our pressure cooker coil and released that energy (matter) back out with the help of the plasma around it. and in this case our coil will loose mass..

The earth is probably the biggest magnet I have access to, we should all be able to acknowledge that the earth has electrons spinning around it, at the same frequency of spacing as the magnetic flux field. (proof for doubters the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt). Space boffins say the energetic particles from space are trapped by our magnetic field....I submit that those electrons are at least a considerable sum are the magnetic field from earth and what they are measuring is the electrons that make up our magnetic field seen on a huge scale. They are taking in energy from the plasma in space and returning that energy in quantified amounts back to earth. The eV that they hold is far greater than that when in the atom because the distance from there original atom has grown exponentially i.e. the valance ring they are tied too is way out there....   .1 to 10 MeV are normal. Because the potential is greater in the excited electrons in the van Allen belt its net charge is into earth....
In our coil we make the potential difference to push the electrons in our coil out of the wire and create a magnetic field...but and this is were I disagree with john
We loose our potential to the plasma through the electron....so I believe the mass will reduce...
simply put john could be right, but I'm saying it depends which has the greater potential lose...
So whats your take john, folks..
Regards

Unless john is saying there comes a point at which the charge we are loosing excites enough plasma to start the pinch and draw in more charge than is being used to excite the plasma through the electrons in the magnetic field from the coil??

You see the magnetic field, aka electrons returning into the earth as birkeland currents...
This is why I have always believed the magnetic field is electrons.