John.  We want to hear you out.  What we have problems with is that your telling us what we are doing
things wrong.  However you haven't studied newmans teaching to the point where you have masterd it.  So its hard to argue the points with you. 

I get it.  Your idea dissagres with newman. However the qustions you ask seem to conterdicut the teachings of newman.  So it feels you don't have a grasp on extactly what newman is teaching.  So its hard to argue the points becuese we feel its already things you should know of your asking.  That's all.  Its thought already in the book. 

We want all the help we can get.  However the disagreement is already described in his book.  So there's no reasion to argue what he states.  As this is his way of viewing it.  So we look at it thst way.  For now. 

Never change the understanding of a theory untill you prove it other wise.  But if you don't know the theory well enugh.  You can't prove  it wrong. 

This is what we feel your trying to do. 

No harm done.  We are open,  but we what to listion to the teachings of newman first.  Becuse  there is enugh evadance to prove it worked.  The way he did it.  Well before we started. 

~Russ

John, I am not religious..
I know Newman did not fail....This is what I want russ to prove to you all.....You would not believe me if I posted videos....this way Russ is respected and can show you through evidence Newman was right in his manipulation...
I understand the new sciences views but they dont show me a working sytem of using energy differently even though maxwell told them a hundred years ago.
If you walk away then we have failed to show you a different way...not a way that destroys modern thinking, but another way...

One last thing john, In my school days in english lessons I was asked to read a fictional book and give my views how I had interpreted the authors ideas he had put into the book...
We are asking the same thing ....read the book and tell us what you think newman was trying to express and say in his ideas...so that we can build this machine that he struggled to get people to understand.
Regards hope to hear from you.

@Russ
Hi russ catching up with your live stream...if you post pics of scope can you draw on them focusing on the areas that you are interpreting as doing what.
Think I see areas you mean but want to eliminate false comprehension...
regards
 

Ok.  Sorry for. My delays on posting data.  Trying to get to it but using all the time to test while richard is here...
However look at scope data  00021 data from 2weeks ago... Already posted
 

You can see that when the coil switches polarity  there is a negtive current spike. 

It dose not matter what way + to - or - to +. 

Its there... 

This is an important  clue.  Its the current reversal that is adding in that result of negtive current flow. In that test.

We also were able to capture the charge and discharge time.  Data soon,  however we were able to prove that the charge time vrs the shorted current desiapation  was longer. 

Aka the shorted charged coil held a longer time thatn it took to charge...  It would seem that the current going round and round took longer to disapate magneticaly that it took to charge... 

Also the new brushes failed.  Shorting the comutator and the battery's was no good.  However we don't have a cap on the coil and this could effect the result. 

More to do.  There is some thoughts for the night. 

Driving. Back to LA tomarrow to drop. Off the new spool and to get more stuff...  No new data tomarrow. 

~Russ

Quote

We also were able to capture the charge and discharge time.  Data soon,  however we were able to prove that the charge time vrs the shorted current desiapation  was longer. 

Aka the shorted charged coil held a longer time thatn it took to charge...  It would seem that the current going round and round took longer to disapate magneticaly that it took to charge...

Fantastic, proving that is the most important thing to understanding the nature of extra energy gain.

It shows the force obvious and un-obvious is done for a longer period of time. The manipulation of time of the moving magnetic field means more energy can be gained than expected.

Thank you Russ. Look forward to your results.

Quote from ~Russ on January 13th, 2018, 05:37 PM

Thanks john. 

He deffently perferued it on the side or in the coil. 

He is verry clear about that.  The book clearly states so. 

The end is where we get the cogging.  Lens law..  This we never want.  For this. 

Any how we will deffently try it from the top etc to test all ways!!

Thanks!!

~Russ

Quote

To summarize, Tesla accidentally discovered an electrostatic "super-charging" effect while trying to verify Hertz' discovery of electro-magnetic waves. After hundreds of experiments, he learned how to control and maximize this phenomenon. This led him to the discovery that electricity is made up of different components, that can be separated from each other, and that a pure, gaseous etheric energy can be fractionated away from the flow of electrons in a circuit designed to produce short duration, unidirectional impulses. When all the conditions were right, this gaseous, etheric energy would manifest itself as a spatially distributed voltage that would radiate away from the electrical circuit as a "light-like ray" that could charge other surfaces within the field.

Peter Lindemann The World of Free Energy 2001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRBUuicNuNY

Free Energy, NO Fake
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3134.msg47810#msg47810

If everything is a function of motion as spin, oscillations and vibrations as we know then electricity and matter are made up of one thing manifesting itself  in different forms. What we do is actually kind of strange, we see a star near this planet and we call it a Sun, we see a magician with advanced technology and we call them a God or we see an aggregate of particles moving at the speed of light and we call it tangible matter having solidity when we know none is present. You can slice, bake and shake an apple any way you like and it can appear in a billion different forms but it's still an apple thus all is one and only the conditions have changed. Change the conditions and energy and matter manifests in different forms as we all know intuitively.

All energy is inherently free and everything is made up of energy which is in perpetual motion because there is no person that can give even one simple example of anything in the universe which is not in perpetual motion. So I believe you when you say free energy, no fake ... how could it not be true?.

Newbie here, although I have been reading the thread.

Since Russ is close to finishing off the big coil I thought that we could discuss what we think will happen with some simple examples.  Let's call them thought experiments that will relate to the machine in operation.  Ideally we would all agree on the "results" of these experiments.

We know the commutator has an "on" cycle where the high-voltage from the batteries will connect to the big coil for a short time.  So, keeping it simple, if the coil is 20 Henrys and the battery bank is 300 volts, what will happen if the commutator makes contact for one-tenth of a second?

Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

Hi SqueezingSparks
Welcome, your answer is hard because it would be nice to understand your level of understanding on Newman's work, have you read the book???

If so you realise the the machine functions as a sum of parts and circuits working together,breaking them down to segments and giving results based on a separate segment wont help the understanding of the answer 'What will happen'

We call the 'On' the 'fire' segment of the commutator.

You say 'keeping it simple' well 300V is on the low side for a good effect on the machine as a whole cycle but, if the commutator is static you would get a magnetic field generated and then collapse...the magnet rotor will probably get pushed and take the commutator rotation into the 'Blank' segment hopefully.

I dont think this is the answer you wanted so give us more to work with..
Regards..

I must add / stress 20 Henrys is not in the magnitude of a newman motor and  replicating on a small scale will not work for the rest of the commutator segments...
 

Hi Sonnet,

I haven't read the book and I think the theory is something like this:  The atoms of copper will all act like gyroscopic particles spinning in the same direction when the coil is energized.  More wire mass equals more gyroscopic particles and this can somehow do mass to energy conversion using E=Mc^2.  I am not sure if this means the mass of the copper will slightly decrease or not but I am assuming that the theory states that the mass of the copper will indeed decrease. So that would imply considerable amounts of energy output with a barely measurable decrease in the mass of the copper.  I think I once saw an illustrative example in an old physics textbook where they said that one gram of matter has the theoretical energy content to lift six million tons up to a height of one mile.  I am vague on what form the energy output will be, and I don't know what the Newman theory states.  From reading this thread a while back I think that is also being debated here.

If I am way off on the Newman theory I apologize, but that's what I picked up without reading the book.

Re:  My thought experiment:  I took some guesses, and thinking about it it looks like in one of Russ' recent clips he might have say 100 9-volt batteries.  And perhaps I was low on the inductance.  That of course can be measured later and there is also the Hyperphysics web page to get an estimate of the inductance.  And of course there is the estimate of the resistance of the coil from a wire gauge chart or Russ can measure it when the coil is finished.

So, the tweaked thought experiment is this:  Assuming the commutator "fire" time is one-tenth of a second, and the voltage is 900 volts and the inductance of the coil is 50 Henrys, what will happen during that one-tenth of a second?

The above assumes the rotor is turning.  However, this can be ignored for now for the sake of simplicity.  Also, the wire resistance can be ignored, or it can be considered for a better answer.

Even though the motor may indeed act as a "whole that is greater than the sum of its parts" it's still a worthwhile exercise to do a thought experiment about what we think is taking place during smaller parts of the operation of the motor.  Understanding a small piece of the puzzle may help to understand the larger whole.  Likewise, if you understand a small piece and then see it in action on the scope during testing on the bench, that really helps and is very satisfying.

ok...you have a tiny understanding of the full picture, believe me...
Its not hard to learn, but you must be open to the ideas put forward...
Read the book....link to a copy is on page 1 of this thread
Read all off this thread....dont jump chapters in the book...

A current flow of a short duration of time aligns the atoms in a copper wire,
A voltage pushes the atoms and a magnetic field emanates out of the copper...
so the more wire you have the more atoms are pushed, by the voltage.
I believe it is the free electrons in the copper atoms that are pushed out of the wire..
Their spin interacts in a mechanical way in the field and will push/pull according to spin direction a body interacting like another magnetic field..
The coil when it is built to a great size acts more like a capacitor and builds a charge.
Due to commutator position this charge can be shorted in the coil. the magnetic field put to useful work and then released putting power back into the batteries...
The release of power from the atom is caused by the electron absorbing power via its spin and releasing that spin when out in the magnetic field, the electron goes back into the mass and absorbs more spin and the voltage pressure pushes it out again into the field..
So the atom will decay but very very very slowly...hundreds of years...
Newman did not say it was the electron he named the mechanical interaction as microscopic particles...

Please read our threads to see where and how we have deduced this.
But Newmans work is all you really need to read to understand the fantastic enlightenment that you will ever get in your life time...
regards

We are talking about a coil with 16,000 henrys

Sonnet:

Thanks for the information.  I will try to devote some time to reading the book.

Re:  16,000 Henrys sounds high to me.  Perhaps my estimate of 50 Henrys was low.

Here is the inductance calculator from Hyperphysics:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/indsol.html#c1

If anybody knows the approximate final dimensions of Russ' big coil and the approximate final number of turns they could punch in the numbers to get an estimate of the inductance.  I haven't been following close enough to know or estimate the numbers myself.

Sonnet:

I watched Russ' last clip again and I realized that the approximate coil parameters are in the clip!  I bow to you because your number of 16,000 Henrys appears to be very accurate!

Here is what I punched into the Hyperphysics calculator:

Length:  35 cm.  (eyeball estimate)
Radius:  15 cm  (eyeball estimate)
Turns:  230,000  (stated target in clip)
Air core so relative permeability is 1.

Inductance:  13,425 Henrys.

That's a lot of Henrys!

So, the revised thought experiment:

Assuming the commutator "fire" time is one-tenth of a second, and the voltage is 900 volts and the inductance of the coil is 14,000 Henrys, what will happen during that one-tenth of a second?

https://youtu.be/IxkI2KmWiwo

Geting closer... 

~Russ

Quote from SqueezingSparks on January 16th, 2018, 08:17 PM

Sonnet:

I watched Russ' last clip again and I realized that the approximate coil parameters are in the clip!  I bow to you because your number of 16,000 Henrys appears to be very accurate!

Here is what I punched into the Hyperphysics calculator:

Length:  35 cm.  (eyeball estimate)
Radius:  15 cm  (eyeball estimate)
Turns:  230,000  (stated target in clip)
Air core so relative permeability is 1.

Inductance:  13,425 Henrys.

That's a lot of Henrys!

So, the revised thought experiment:

Assuming the commutator "fire" time is one-tenth of a second, and the voltage is 900 volts and the inductance of the coil is 14,000 Henrys, what will happen during that one-tenth of a second?

https://youtu.be/QGshiHopIpw

~Russ

PS.  Do devote alot of time reading.  As sonnet stated.  You won't regret it. 

@ SqueezingSparks

Quote

Assuming the commutator "fire" time is one-tenth of a second, and the voltage is 900 volts and the inductance of the coil is 14,000 Henrys, what will happen during that one-tenth of a second?

Russ has kindly put his video clip there for you to see the scope readings...he times the coil @40mSec, 200mSec and 400mSec if my memory serves me well in that clip.
Not quite your 1/10th of a sec (60mSec) but im sure you can get your answers there...if not shout..
Regards.

Sonnet:

Note because this is a thought experiment then you don't really need to go to the video of the bench work to see some examples to complete the thought experiment.  The idea is to have a sense of what should be taking place before you go to the bench.

I did look though the clip you linked to and I saw that the L/R time constant for the big coil is about 100 milliseconds (to be confirmed).  I am going to assume they were working with the completed coil.

In a day or two if there are no responses to the thought experiment then I will comment more.

I believe the theme around here is the bench testing and bench results take precedence over theory.

Quote from SqueezingSparks on January 17th, 2018, 02:32 PM

Sonnet:

Note because this is a thought experiment then you don't really need to go to the video of the bench work to see some examples to complete the thought experiment.  The idea is to have a sense of what should be taking place before you go to the bench.

I did look though the clip you linked to and I saw that the L/R time constant for the big coil is about 100 milliseconds (to be confirmed).  I am going to assume they were working with the completed coil.

In a day or two if there are no responses to the thought experiment then I will comment more.

I believe the theme around here is the bench testing and bench results take precedence over theory.

yes, the bench rules. And the theory should be in place before going to the bench. However, I also do believable that understanding from observation is the be all say all. it trumps all other theory.

so for me. I rather have an idea of what i'm looking for, then go to the bench, then decided on whats what from the bench testing.

because in the end. the bench has the answers.

back to your question.

Quote

Assuming the commutator "fire" time is one-tenth of a second, and the voltage is 900 volts and the inductance of the coil is 14,000 Henrys, what will happen during that one-tenth of a second?

when you say " what will happen" i think for us to answer that in a thought experiment we need to know more of what your looking for?

I would first need to know more about the set up.

resistance of coil, capacitance of coil, number of turns, wire size, etc.

if we are directly talking about the coil that Richard built...

I would expect that the current would start to flow, and the voltage would be instant. ( assuming that the coil was attached to one side of the battery first).

The magnetic field would start to build. with out doing a lot of math i could not say by this thought experiment how ling the charge time would be so that's the end of my thoughts i guess.  if it would be fully charged the current would at its maximum. (I = V / R)
 19.78ma = 900 / 45,500
17.8w of power being dissipated

I feel your looking for a particular answer. I'm just not sure i know what that is.
Posibaly elaborate what your answer is for the thought experiment. ?

Thanks

~Russ

All of the current units of measurement are in units of time second.
There is a ratio of 10 to the second for current motion time units.
The fire time is relational to the cycle rotation. 
   

Some preliminary testing showed an induced voltage of open ended coil > 5KV pk-pk when spinning by hand @ ~618RPM

I'm currently compiling a lot of data. However we should have the new coil by the end of next week or sooner. so we will get much batter data from that coil as a lot of theses tests we have been doing came with learning curves.... so better data will come.  The high energy impulses from this system are playing with our probes for sure.... mainly on the current probes. I would like to set up duel directional shunt with lower voltage isolated probes for current. The current probes we have like to float off the zero line when a big pulse arrives... tried to shield it some but having troubles. more testing to do.

~ Russ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4MMY3I7Fzk

~Russ