Russ... I'm trying to understand what shorting the coil does... does it just keep the inductor 'spinning' so it doesn't lose the momentum of the magnetic field?

The reason I ask is because I've been working on a circuit in the falstad circuit emulator, and I noticed it stopped working if the inductors 'spun down'... slamming open the n-MOSFETs downstream would stop the inductors from 'spinning', and when the n-MOSFETs closed again, it took awhile for the inductors to get 'spinning' again.

It appears that abruptly stopping all current flow kills the magnetic field in the inductors, which takes awhile to reestablish, but allowing even a small amount of current 'flow-through' keeps things working.

So, I set it up so that when current wasn't being pulled (or pushed) through the inductors, they had a separate path for current flow... back to the battery and into a few caps in the circuit. It seems to work. Of course, that's just a circuit emulator. It remains to be seen whether it works in meatspace.

So the specific question, "What is the hoped-for result of the coil-shorting?"

Quote from Cycle on January 28th, 2018, 05:10 PM

Russ... I'm trying to understand what shorting the coil does... does it just keep the inductor 'spinning' so it doesn't lose the momentum of the magnetic field?

The reason I ask is because I've been working on a circuit in the falstad circuit emulator, and I noticed it stopped working if the inductors 'spun down'... slamming open the n-MOSFETs downstream would stop the inductors from 'spinning', and when the n-MOSFETs closed again, it took awhile for the inductors to get 'spinning' again.

It appears that abruptly stopping all current flow kills the magnetic field in the inductors, which takes awhile to reestablish, but allowing even a small amount of current 'flow-through' keeps things working.

So, I set it up so that when current wasn't being pulled (or pushed) through the inductors, they had a separate path for current flow... back to the battery and into a few caps in the circuit. It seems to work. Of course, that's just a circuit emulator. It remains to be seen whether it works in meatspace.

So the specific question, "What is the hoped-for result of the coil-shorting?"

simple answer.

After the charge cycle. and after the induction cycle (negative current). There is another 60 or more degrees of rotation before you can you fire again.

you have 2 choices.
1. Open the circuit hope the magnet makes it to parall ( magnetic alignment. ) and lose all that stored inertia in to an self oscillation.
2. Open the coil for a very short time ( this impulse might make more torque due to the very high charge impulse, inertia water hammer effect) then short it. keeping that inertia and letting it die down very slowly ( wire resistance will kill it) to keep the magnetic field so the magnet makes it further to alignment. . ( This impulse can also be used as i do believe this is where the RF is generated. )

so the main point is to keep the inertia in the coil. some testing proved that you can get a longer duration in the coil than took to put it in by shorting it... In fact 2x longer in some tests...  ( see attached area under the curve consultations, blue trace is current in the coil, green is current from the battery, yellow is voltage across the coil) ( 0012,0013)

now look at this (0006) you can see that i was able to catch a small spike, then a short. This is a burst of things that will be explained in due time.... and has been explained by my DOC i posted a while back. along with the inertia effect. its just a theory right now what happens in this short pulse... but we all know there is something there going on that is fundamental...

There is a lot of deviance to show me that this is the right track.
~Russ

@SqueezingSparks

good tests, this will work... :)

http://rwgresearch.com/open-projects/10000j-cap-bank/

thanks for the input! i did do some testing very similar to that, but i was just some ideas . the system was not set up yet to finish it correctly for the test...


~Russ

alright then...

I feel this will be VERY helpful...

I haven't seen this till last night, ( ask and you shall receive)

while i was reading this i keep getting the hunch that the basic idea that i asked for and received that i put in my Doc was in the right direction when it comes to the RF especially, and SRF. so you can decide for your self, but i think we know where we are going, and what we need to look for... i feel you will gain new incite from this. i dont remember running across this particular info in the book... 

there is only one man i know of that has seen and delt with almost every single Newman motor that has publicly spoke about it and who is smart enough in the physics / electrical / math world to give a real unbiased opinion on it... so i feel 100% confident about whats in this .txt file to be hoist and true...   

God Bless us all... and lets keep going... one day at a time...

~Russ

PS. open in notepad for proper lay ought.

Quote from Magneton on January 28th, 2018, 03:16 PM

... and it is directional based on current direction and N or S pole just like Newman says in his book on page 304

Aaah!  Wording here...

It does not matter what the polarity of the magnet is nor the polarity of the current passing through the wire.  Do you see it?

Do you see what that means?

You can create an LC resonance and regardless of which way the current is flowing, you will get repulsion between the coil and the magnet.  And it doesn't even matter whether the magnet's pole facing the coil is North or South.

Think gentlemen.  The goose that laid the golden eggs.

Why repulsion and only repulsion?

Because the spins do not mesh.  The gears buck each other.  But the beauty in how this happens is almost magical in three space.  The magnet cannot induce any kind of current into the wire.  So forget about trying to charge the battery with back EMF.  Think of the motor.  A motor that runs just by energy bouncing between a coil and capacitor.  You put a tiny bit of energy into the capacitor, connect it to the coil and as the current bounces in the LC, you get a repulsive force for as long as you can keep the LC oscillating.  The magnet is at 90 degrees to the coil/wire, so it cannot induce a current into the wire.  Which means the magnet passing by the coil will not interfere with the LC resonance.  The concept is very similar to coil shorting only much better because there is no induction.  You don't want induction.  You want a motor that produces a great amount of torque without paying for it in energy consumption.  And....      There is no reason at all you can't shift the resonance from coil to coil to keep the motor turning.  This can be done easily with transistors timed based on the rotation speed of the motor.  If there was ever a better reason to build a "page 304" pulse motor, I've never seen it.  So now guys, decide:  Do you want rotating magnets or rotating coils?  I can picture this working either way and you can determine the motor torque simply by adjusting the diameter.  Newman's elongated motor looks to me to be the way to go, but I can also see a flat motor as a pretty nice proof-of-concept.  As a reminder, the better you can balance the motor, the faster it can run and the more horsepower it can produce.  Pick your solution:  High speed, high torque or something in between.  This looks like a fun project to tackle to me.  Shouldn't take much to know with certainty if "Page 304" is truly the secret.

On page 304 "repulsion" is not defined.  And what we know is that if the magnetic field is in the vertical direction and the current flow is in the horizontal direction, then the force on the horizontal portion of the wire will be into the page or out of the page.  The direction of the force depends on the magnetic polarity and the current direction.

So what would happen in the case of an LC resonant ring-down current flowing though the wire?  The wire would want to oscillate back and forth, into the page and then out of the page.  If the LC resonant ring-down frequency is high enough then the wire will not move and for all practical intents and purposes there will be no net repulsion force on the wire.

In this case you look at the wire as a physical system with mass.  The higher the frequency you try to make a mass oscillate the less it moves.  i.e.; the mass, or in this case the mass of the wire, is a mechanical low-pass filter when you try to make it oscillate back and forth.  So it blocks high frequencies.

Quote from ~Russ on January 28th, 2018, 09:40 PM

alright then...

I feel this will be VERY helpful...

I haven't seen this till last night, ( ask and you shall receive)

while i was reading this i keep getting the hunch that the basic idea that i asked for and received that i put in my Doc was in the right direction when it comes to the RF especially, and SRF. so you can decide for your self, but i think we know where we are going, and what we need to look for... i feel you will gain new incite from this. i dont remember running across this particular info in the book... 

there is only one man i know of that has seen and delt with almost every single Newman motor that has publicly spoke about it and who is smart enough in the physics / electrical / math world to give a real unbiased opinion on it... so i feel 100% confident about whats in this .txt file to be hoist and true...   

God Bless us all... and lets keep going... one day at a time...

~Russ

PS. open in notepad for proper lay ought.

WOWZERS Russ, what a find. That paper is fantastic.

Roger Hastings description is so clear...

PHENOMENOLOGICAL THEORY

A phenomenological  theory of operation is suggested here,  which involves the
following sequence of events:

1) The battery is switched across the coil and a current wavefront (gyroscopic
   particles)  propagates  into  the coil  at a speed determined by the coil's
   propagation time constant.

2) Before the  wavefront  completes its journey  through the coil, the battery
   voltage is switched open.   At  this point the coil contains a charge equal
   to the current times the on-time.

3) When the  switch  is opened,  all of this  charge leaves the coil in a very
   short time, creating a very large current pulse in the coil.

4) The magnetic  field  generated by  this current pulse  (gyroscopic particle
   flow)  propagates  out  to the  permanent  magnet armature, and gives it an
   impulsive torque.

5) The magnet accelerates, and the resulting magnetic field disturbance of the
   permanent  magnet  is  propagated  back to the coil,  creating  a back-emf.
   However,  by the time this occurs,  the switch is open so that the back emf
   does not impede the current flowing in the battery circuit.

Maybe we have been in the wrong timing. We have been "kicking" the magnet when the power was applied.
Maybe we need to "kick" the magnet when we take the power off.

Quote

experiment based on info from page 304. Tavote has keen insight...wire over a magnet
with a short length of straight wire over the magnet (shorter than the magnet) the wire is repelled when current passes through the wire. and it is directional based on current direction and N or S pole just like Newman says in his book on page 304

This is a good basic experiment. Newman might have done them himself. My first thought is solid state generator and if it could be as generational component or additive parasitic to the results.

There have been a few patents and claims made around solid state generators and transformative power.

The difference is again a concept range scope.

One is the concept of the everyday scale of the device. We see the motion and acceleration torque forces physically.
That is classical physical applied mechanics.

The other level of concept scope is the actual calculation of electrons in the theory as an applied force.
That would be the new field of quantum physical applied mechanics.
       

Quote from Matt Watts on January 28th, 2018, 11:08 PM

Aaah!  Wording here...

It does not matter what the polarity of the magnet is nor the polarity of the current passing through the wire.  Do you see it?

Do you see what that means?

lets not for get one very important thing here....

If the magnet is always pushing away from a single wire.

what happens when we make a loop?

something changes... what is it? well the direction that the magnet now wants to go is stronger than the repulsion of the single wire...

make sense?

so the magnet if able to freely rotate will indeed try to align its self to the poles ( on the side or the top or even at an angle, it will allays alight its self the the flux lines...)

this brings a new and totally different reaction... 

In all my testing the magnet will ignore the repulsion of the magnet IF there is a loop of wire......

so unless your building lenuar motor... im not sure how much you can use the single wire replusion to your advantage.

it however might be something to consider for design parameters.

now ask your self... if the spin and repulsion direction do not madder... why dose the alignment of the  magnet always flip according to current direction?



i will be hoist, and say i look at this page a few times and something never clicked. I now see what i missed. and it only brings more questions. such as:

what if the magnet is inducing the current and not from the outside?
and open coil will react with no drag where a shorted coil will act like a block of copper...

in my recent findings. if the source of voltage and current has a very high resistance ( like a really good cap) there is almost NO drag past the coil AS ITS CHARGING THE SOURCE AND RUNNING ITS SELF...

Quote from Matt Watts on January 28th, 2018, 11:08 PM

You can create an LC resonance and regardless of which way the current is flowing, you will get repulsion between the coil and the magnet.  And it doesn't even matter whether the magnet's pole facing the coil is North or South.

Think gentlemen.  The goose that laid the golden eggs.

in one of Newman motor / generator. he clearly states that the oscillate the magnet. Inside of the coil...  never letting the ends swing all the way around.... something to note. ( I'm not talking about the magnet through the hole)

Quote from Matt Watts on January 28th, 2018, 11:08 PM

Why repulsion and only repulsion?

Because the spins do not mesh.  The gears buck each other.  But the beauty in how this happens is almost magical in three space.  The magnet cannot induce any kind of current into the wire.  So forget about trying to charge the battery with back EMF.  Think of the motor.  A motor that runs just by energy bouncing between a coil and capacitor.  You put a tiny bit of energy into the capacitor, connect it to the coil and as the current bounces in the LC, you get a repulsive force for as long as you can keep the LC oscillating.  The magnet is at 90 degrees to the coil/wire, so it cannot induce a current into the wire.  Which means the magnet passing by the coil will not interfere with the LC resonance.  The concept is very similar to coil shorting only much better because there is no induction.  You don't want induction.  You want a motor that produces a great amount of torque without paying for it in energy consumption.  And....      There is no reason at all you can't shift the resonance from coil to coil to keep the motor turning.  This can be done easily with transistors timed based on the rotation speed of the motor.  If there was ever a better reason to build a "page 304" pulse motor, I've never seen it.  So now guys, decide:  Do you want rotating magnets or rotating coils?  I can picture this working either way and you can determine the motor torque simply by adjusting the diameter.  Newman's elongated motor looks to me to be the way to go, but I can also see a flat motor as a pretty nice proof-of-concept.  As a reminder, the better you can balance the motor, the faster it can run and the more horsepower it can produce.  Pick your solution:  High speed, high torque or something in between.  This looks like a fun project to tackle to me.  Shouldn't take much to know with certainty if "Page 304" is truly the secret.

there is some deep thoughts in this part ill need to sink my teeth in to it later. lol
however i will say that there is no secret... its all just sitting in the front of us... we just need to pay attention to the details of obversation of the basic type... remember who is in the details?

~Russ

Russ, this just might answer your question because honestly, you answered you self when you posted your picture.
It should move you to 35:32 if not then move to 35:32 manually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bht9AJ1eNYc&t=2132s

Page 10 and 11 depict gyroscopic particles going FROM and TO the South pole as well as the North pole, that is why he is saying that you always will have a repulsion and not attraction. There is an equal force that is acting on the wire just like in the video above.

Not knowing anything and always being wrong with everything I post.  :)

I’m wondering about replacing the permanet magnet rotating inside or outside the large coil with a smaller iron core coil inside the large coil.

With this you could change the orientation of the small coil and change on and off timing and power as you wish.

What do think another bad idea from me, lol

:)

Quote

now ask your self... if the spin and repulsion direction do not madder... why dose the alignment of the  magnet always flip according to current direction?

@ Russ


Electron spin russ, or more exactly electron angular momentum
you see electron have 1/2 spin so they turn but only in 180^o rotation on there axis...
They have a moment of magnetism so they flip 180^o at a time...if its -1/2 spin (spin down) they turn clockwise in quantum units of 180^o continuously
so when your current changes direction they then spin +1/2 turn (spin up).
They cant turn or be pushed around by there axis, unlike the world (earth) is held at its axis coming out the north pole and wobbles because of procession, a electron cannot wobble or be forced to different angles unless its charge state changes and that quantum state of charge will instantly flip it 180^o .That flips its moment of magnetism too.
This is why a magnet has to pass a coil at the right angle to induce electric current flow.
Electric current flow can flip the electron and that why the field spin is opposite each time the direction of current flows..
I suggest a good read on electron spin here.

@ Tavote.

I think what I'm asking is specific.

IF the magnet ALLAYS is in repulsion mode...

then IS or IS not there a direction they rather spin to get away? ( i believe i do indeed know this answer)

The reason why i asked is to see if i understand Matts post.

Because,  Just because they are in repulsion dose not mean you can use both ends to do what ever Matt wanted to do.

any how thanks for the reply!!! just trying to wrap my head around this question Matt asked.

~Russ

The magnetic fields in your graphic above are actually hypotrochoidal in form (think of a twisting toroid, known as a torus knot).


This magnetic field was approximated by a superposition of 2D point sources using the Biot-Savart Law.

These are the 'teeth' in the 'gears' that Matt Watts speaks of. One must get the magnet rotational rate synchronized such that its field's 'teeth' properly mesh with the coil's field's 'teeth'. Faster or slower and you get 'gear clashing' and hence inefficiency. In reality, the coil's field's 'gear' will rotate many, many times with one rotation of the permanent magnet... you'll note the rotational speed of the permanent magnet is thus 'quantized'... if you want to make it run faster (and hence get closer to a 1:1 gear ratio between the coil's field and the magnet's field), it'll jump from one speed to a higher speed... of course, the mass of the system masks this somewhat, but we should find the system runs most efficiently only at certain speeds which correspond to an integer-number 'gear ratio' between the two fields.

With that said, we should devise some 'efficiency metric' which computes in real-time the energy expenditure of the system (frictional losses, etc.) and contrasts that with the energy input. It'll make much more clear what I'm saying above... a scatter-plot of data points will show efficiency rising to regular peaks at certain rotational speeds. Someone with sufficient math skills would then be able to determine the actual 'gear ratio' of the system which corresponds to that efficiency rating. That would be not only an interesting exercise, but it'd give us visual data of which rotational speeds yield highest efficiency, it'd prove the quantized nature of the magnetic fields, and it'd prove E_in<E_out should we reach that point.

https://www.quantamagazine.org/december-3-2014-learning-to-move-20131209/

Quote

Electromagnetic fields — entities that fill space and oscillate at different frequencies, some of which our eyes perceive as light — are mathematical solutions to a set of laws known as Maxwell’s equations. As reported in October in Physical Review Letters, Irvine and his colleagues Hridesh Kedia, Iwo Bialynicki-Birula and Daniel Peralta-Salas discovered a large class of solutions in which the contours of the electromagnetic fields, called “field lines,” twist and turn in knots.

A static, knotted electromagnetic field was derived in the 1990s, but “the new work is much more general,” said Moffatt, now a professor emeritus of mathematical physics at Cambridge. “They provide a technique for finding a really huge variety of knots.”

You'll note the above article ties together fluid-flow dynamics, knot theory and knots in electromagnetism... now consider the quantum vacuum zero point energy field as a superfluid of virtual fermion-antifermion pairs, as quantum field theory (and de Broglie-Bohm Pilot Wave Theory) does.

It's too bad we couldn't build some sort of mechanism for the permanent magnet which rotates it about the coil in an orbit as the magnet rotates poloidally, tracing out a hypotrochoidal path of the permanent magnet's poles. This would completely capture the momentum in the coil's magnetic field (at the permanent magnet poloidal rotation rate which matches the magnetic field's hypotrochoidal precession rate).

The no-go is that figuring out how to get mechanical work out of the system would be nigh-well impossible... where would you put the PTO shaft? Everything is spinning and twisting, so it'd be impossible.

An alternative (although, not as efficient) is placing several of the permanent magnets around the perimeter of the coil, mechanically connected together via universal joints. They'd have to be rotationally offset from each other to match the magnetic field's precession rate. A pulley on one of the shafts would allow extraction of mechanical work from the system.

Quote from Tavote on January 29th, 2018, 11:40 AM

Page 10 and 11 depict gyroscopic particles going FROM and TO the South pole as well as the North pole, that is why he is saying that you always will have a repulsion and not attraction. There is an equal force that is acting on the wire just like in the video above.

hummm, OK, i can see the thought there slightly different now. but still makes scene according to my video 14 results. the difference is that i was looking at it from an induction stand point and that page 306 is looking at ti in reverse. from a current applied stand point.

~Russ

Quote from sonnet on January 29th, 2018, 12:12 PM

@ Russ


Electron spin russ, or more exactly electron angular momentum
you see electron have 1/2 spin so they turn but only in 180^o rotation on there axis...
They have a moment of magnetism so they flip 180^o at a time...if its -1/2 spin (spin down) they turn clockwise in quantum units of 180^o continuously
so when your current changes direction they then spin +1/2 turn (spin up).
They cant turn or be pushed around by there axis, unlike the world (earth) is held at its axis coming out the north pole and wobbles because of procession, a electron cannot wobble or be forced to different angles unless its charge state changes and that quantum state of charge will instantly flip it 180^o .That flips its moment of magnetism too.
This is why a magnet has to pass a coil at the right angle to induce electric current flow.
Electric current flow can flip the electron and that why the field spin is opposite each time the direction of current flows..
I suggest a good read on electron spin here.

thanks sonnet. I'm quite sure i understand this very clearly, and in fact demonstrated this to my self on the bench this past week, so i'm either lost, or Matt and Tavote are seeing something i dont see.

I just taked to Matt on the phone and i asked a simple question.

if a magnet is forced away from the wire... is that force greater than the force trying to align the magnet parall with the flux lines?

the answer is very clear to me. according to the bench results over the last week.

so i think that's why i over looked page 306, it feels like something i already knew, or something that i haven't seemed to need in my understanding of operation. It feels like more of an observation more than anything needed to build Newman.

and if that page 306 describes for you what video 14 made me understand than I'm just behind...

did everyone here understand the importance of testing in video 14?
I will post it again. its a demonstration of page 306 but in reverse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6H3RymQC7g

i will also post this again:

in my recent findings. if the source of voltage and current has a very high resistance ( like a really good cap with low ESR) there is almost NO drag past the coil AS ITS CHARGING THE SOURCE AND RUNNING ITS SELF...

aka : look at that txt i posted its stated:
"If the torque and induction constants are equal, the motor is nearly one hundred
percent efficient.  If the torque  constant exceeds  the induction
constant, the
efficiency* exceeds 100%.

[*Note: the PRODUCTION efficiency can exceed 100%
        the CONVERSION efficiency cannot exceed 100%]
"
This is what i now understand on my bench... and this is what I'm trying to show in my video 14...
 
~Russ

PS. if everyone already understands this, and I'm just late to the party..., then even better! however I'm not sure where everyone is on this... so raise your hand if you dont understand this effect. so i can try to express it more clearly.

ahhh..

yes, around a wire... https://orig00.deviantart.net/2b66/f/2011/106/e/0/magnetic_field_of_a_torus_knot_by_bugman123-d3e4jlv.jpg

hummm...

~Russ

@Russ
What is interesting to note to me when grasping electron 1/2 spin is when you compare it to Newmans model of spinning gyroscopic particles going around his bar magnet like the one you cut out on paper in that video...is this

the angular of momentum of his gyro particles remains the same if you see the axis as the flux lines drawn through each particle...

and if you think of them as true Newtonian particles why is it then, that there axis is not deflected when hit/meshed by another particle ...in the Newtonian world billiard balls deflect and there axis rotates....Newman's particles do not. As in the magnetic field particles don't change there angular momentum.
They remain ridged to transfer thier kinetic energy
thoughts to ponder..

Have you guys seen This patent application?

Quote from chuff1 on January 29th, 2018, 05:56 PM

Have you guys seen This patent application?

Both EP0086776A4 and WO1983000963 numbered patents are the same.

conversation between Richard and i...

related to the understanding of my doc, and tuning, etc

~Russ

note @ 12 min i stated the current and voltage are going in the opposite direction. there not. its all the same direction. 

My new inspiration...  Photo attached. 

more refreshment from the book.

quotes

"The wire acts like small battery’s. one can extract energy from theses batteries… "

“I stress that it is essential that one design and establish the correct geometric configuration”

we know this more now than ever, and why... ( watch video 14 of your not clear)

“ One must pay strict attention to the mechanical essence of theses gyroscopic action of theses particles. “

as Matt tried to explain to me on the phone today... i need to study this even more...

“It is extremely important to recognize that the “ lines ( shells) of force” ( gyro particles) continuously vary in their exact direction at any given moment. The angular direction of the “lines ( shells) or force” gyro particles vary from the center of the magnet to the left in one plane of the magnetic field and to the right in the opposite side of that same plane. “

"Looping is not possible due to the energy being mechanical. And they will work against them self’s.  a” breaking” effect will result. Like a short across a generator loads the generator.
However one can “ trap” the energy in system and not let it get back to the battery.
“cumulative effect”

this is very important to note the source resistance.

“ Via the proper design, it is obvious that one can feed the energy triggered and released from a system in to a configuration which then operates itself and produces additional, excess energy in accordance with E=MC2”

it is now obvious to me that this statement is TRUE. 110%

~Russ