The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017

jbignes5

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1100, on January 31st, 2018, 08:04 PM »Last edited on January 31st, 2018, 08:09 PM
Quote from sonnet on January 31st, 2018, 06:47 PM
Hi John,
In a post a few pages back #1064, I implied that a electron in the field could receive enough energy to keep it in the field...This brought about electrons building up in the field where upon they (in the case of the earths field) would conduct that energy back to earth through birkeland currents as the charge potential increased...
Russ alludes to the self series resonance of a inductor building up outside the coil and the eventual charge going to earth....He says we can capture it by encasing the coil...
Your video is plastered with the electron which you was denying existed in the first place...but I can forgive you that....and states about the obsevation of a single electron flying off....I put it to you that the single electron could have been part of the current flow induced by the collective charge out there in space...
could you not see plasma as the accumulative of the charge in space reaching that energy trigger level.
Dont answer till you  have seen russ's latest video...#15
and read in post 1069, the pdf 'four letters from a mathematical physicist'
Best regards...stay chilled.
I was trying to explain what I meant by there is no electron. By referring to the Plasma Physics. Right now all we know is there is a shell there. Thats shell, I am sure of, is a Plasma double layer(s) surrounding the atom or whatever is inside of matter. I am positive that there is two kinds of Plasma. One being positive and one being negative or North and South or Magnetic and Electric.

 If anyone had bothered to just put down the old theories and see this as I and others are seeing it, you might understand why I say there is no electron. At best it is a shell but a shell of what? That is what led me to Plasma Physics. I tried to show many examples both mechanical and electrical of the proof that all matter resides in a Plasma sheath. This sheath is also surrounded by opposite sign of Plasma. This is a well known Plasma Physics mechanic called a double layer. Whats in between those layers are balanced Plasma or a bidirectional coupling of both Plasma.

 Again for you reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierpinski_triangle#/media/File:Sierpinski_pyramid.png

 The red particle is very dynamic in size and charge carrying particles within it's body.
 The blue particle is fixed when you compare the two side by side or balanced mode.

 If you zoom the picture in you will see that the red particles point up and the blue particles point down.

 The Red whole particle is full of space, hence why I call it the vehicle of charge. Even smaller red particles ride in those spaces when the blue particle is not there and the tips bang into the red bases giving it charge or enables magnetism.
 The Blue whole particle is full of surface and has no space hence why it is voltage only responsive and is the structure of space itself.

 A balanced particle pair either has equal amounts of red and blue as shown in the middle of the two whole particles merged together or they can become polarized and stick base to base with all sub particles base to tip.

 Neutral space is the particle shown between the two particles merged. Polarized space is when they sit base to base going in one direction.

 These particles are highly dynamic in movement and the shape dictates it direction when a potential or charge is present.

 Of course since this is fractal based this is just a frozen picture with no other smaller particles shown. They have to have larger and smaller particles but for the mechanics that can be sidestepped for this conversation.

 The truth is that we do not know if there is an electron period. Hell I don't know if these are real but this explanation is much better because you can get everything we want out of this example. I call these particles Plasma because this is what matter floats in and is able to transmit it's radiant information through space to everything else in matters environment. Plasma is the environment that matter floats in and conducts through.

 All of the effects that we can see like induction and electromagnetic induction is fully explainable via this example even the electric field and magnetism, light, heat. All...

 What is not explainable in the theories we have now is what is the electron floating in? How come it can act like a particle and a wave? Well my example explains that. I just don't have all of it mapped out yet. The current theories only describe the the math. We can not locate the electron, not because we haven't tried but because in this example it doesn't exist. The best picture of an electron will shock you.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofp-OHIq6Wo

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1101, on January 31st, 2018, 08:08 PM »Last edited on January 31st, 2018, 08:11 PM
Quote from SqueezingSparks on January 31st, 2018, 06:49 PM
Okay Russ, so if you get what I said in my previous posting then any very short switching of the battery voltage onto the coil where the switching is so fast that you switch off before the voltage and current signal even makes it to the far end of the coil is not even going to make the main coil budge.  It literally will not budge, it takes a serious amount of electrical work to build up the magnetic field around the coil.

So even if your theory about "more out than in" was true with your very fast switching, you are still talking about something like two micro-joules in and four micro-joules out.  And, you are also expecting a "free lunch" here by assuming that you will not have to pay for any small-signal inductive or capacitive coupling. That is very problematic, why should you get a free lunch in this case?

I realize I may be missing some background in Newman theory, but I will undertake to read your document.

A few things to respond to from your clip:   The velocity factor for the coil will not change with frequency or for the size of the coil.  What determines the velocity factor is all small-signal; the unit inductance per short length of wire that forms the coil and the unit capacitance between that short length of wire and the neighbouring wires around it.  In other words, an analog to a coaxial cable, where the propagation speed and the associated velocity factor is all dependent on the immediate "small" localized environment.

You also made reference to a Newman quote, something about current that does not compete the circuit being "pushed back" (and presumably changing direction.)  If I understood this correctly Newman broke the cardinal rule about inductors; they always want current to keep flowing in the same direction.  Even the ghost of Newman cannot escape this one.
On your last part there. 

Dont forget about CEMF.  This is Allways with EMF.  This is what he is talking about. 

We mesure EMF but there is CEMF at play here...  Add induction currents and bang..  You got it. 

Then add BEMF as I said in my. Video and you get RF...

~Russ

For. More on this see video number 10. Its well worth your time


https://youtu.be/FG9FLQHhY-A

jbignes5

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1102, on January 31st, 2018, 08:09 PM »Last edited on January 31st, 2018, 08:27 PM
Russ did you see my diagram of the Newman machine?

 I never got an answer from you about it. Knowing your video does it look right?

 Each loop would be generating current from one side to the other right? They would add up like batteries do???

 Remember that the magnet rotates. So the N side would start at the upper right and the south would start at the lower left... This would generate current differently depending on where the magnet is. In the start it would go one end of the coil is positive and the other negative. In the middle it would be negated or that weird slope you talked about in the middle of the voltage wave form then it would swap polarities every half cycle.

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1103, on January 31st, 2018, 08:15 PM »
Quote from SqueezingSparks on January 31st, 2018, 06:59 PM
Russ,

Just one final technical point about any possible testing that you want to do on the coil.  You said that you might get "more current out than in" for your hypothetical short-switching test.  I maybe splitting hairs here, but you have to do energy-in vs. energy-out tests.  The reason is that the amount of current a coil can output is variable and dependent the amount of energy in the coil and on the load.  With an ideal coil and an ideal short (no load) the coil will be able to output an infinite amount of current.

SS
Yes,  I failed to say power. And it is more. Power, however I'm not. So so sure its this current delay or Induction. 

The results are diffrent for diffrent reasons.  Each need to be checked sepretely. 

~Russ

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1104, on January 31st, 2018, 08:43 PM »
Quote from jbignes5 on January 31st, 2018, 08:09 PM
Russ did you see my diagram of the Newman machine?

 I never got an answer from you about it. Knowing your video does it look right?

 Each loop would be generating current from one side to the other right? They would add up like batteries do???

 Remember that the magnet rotates. So the N side would start at the upper right and the south would start at the lower left... This would generate current differently depending on where the magnet is. In the start it would go one end of the coil is positive and the other negative. In the middle it would be negated or that weird slope you talked about in the middle of the voltage wave form then it would swap polarities every half cycle.
I answerd this a few posts back.  See if you find it and if it answers your qustions

~Russ

Matt Watts

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1105, on January 31st, 2018, 09:41 PM »
Russ,

Been listening to your audio file with Richard and the problem you mention...

You pass current into the coil and measure WHEN the current comes out the other end...

If you calculate the wire length and the velocity factor, you should know IN ADVANCE how long it SHOULD take to come out the other end.  If the wire was straight and not wound in a coil, you would see calculated delay equal (or very close to) actual delay.  With your coil, you WILL NOT see the delay you calculated.  Why?

The electric field will jump from loop to loop almost straight through with the delay roughly equal to the length of your coil spool, NOT the length of wire.

So what does this mean?

Good question.

I suspect this is the mechanism you use to figure out series and parallel resonance.  The long way (total wire length) should equate to the parallel (low frequency) resonance.  The short way (length of the coil spool) should equate to the series (high frequency) resonance.

This is my thinking at the moment.  If there are more details that need to be added here, please comment on this post with the missing information that is needed to get the correct values for the two resonance frequencies.

From these two values, then I think we have enough information to tune against the rotation RPM.  My gut tells me the two SRF frequencies should produce a beat frequency which actually correlates to the optimal running RPM.

talisman

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1106, on January 31st, 2018, 09:57 PM »
Quote
In a coil, the capacitance is some kind of high-frequency transmission line related phenomenon that only manifests itself under high-frequency AC conditions.

So the two phenomena are not related from what I can see.

SS
Back a bit. If you speak of metallic conductive coil they are twisted wire and all have capacity.
A wire has capacitance AC DC. I tried a small spool of decorative brass gold coated wire
of a unknown metal core from a craft shop and it held voltage just like a battery. But I did not
measure the milliamps. 

chuff1

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1107, on January 31st, 2018, 10:19 PM »Last edited on February 1st, 2018, 04:43 AM
To the question of where the 20Mhz Rf noise is coming from.  When the coil is charge from
the battery and then you create an infinite resistance by the commutator rotating to a space
then the energy reverses itself.  While the coil is trying to neutralize the charge the next segment
arrives(the conductive one) and all that energy has a place to go.  The commutator brushes scrape
the conductive segment like sandpaper because of the microscopic imperfections between the two.
This scraping is like tiny make and break switches causing all the RF noise and the coil of wire
then becomes the antenna, just like the Marconi system of radio.

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1108, on January 31st, 2018, 10:27 PM »
Quote from chuff1 on January 31st, 2018, 10:19 PM
To the question of where the 200Mhz Rf noise is coming from.  When the coil is charge from
the battery and then you create an infinite resistance by the commutator rotating to a space
then the energy reverses itself.  While the coil is trying to neutralize the charge the next segment
arrives(the conductive one) and all that energy has a place to go.  The commutator brushes scrape
the conductive segment like sandpaper because of the microscopic imperfections between the two.
This scraping is like tiny make and break switches causing all the RF noise and the coil of wire
then becomes the antenna, just like the Marconi system of radio.
yep, that's what i also conclude... and also why i keep saying bad brush contact is good lol

did you read my doc chuff?

http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3128.msg48162#msg48162

~Russ

PS its 20Mhz... from the data we have...

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1109, on January 31st, 2018, 10:32 PM »
Quote from Matt Watts on January 31st, 2018, 09:41 PM
Russ,

Been listening to your audio file with Richard and the problem you mention...

You pass current into the coil and measure WHEN the current comes out the other end...

If you calculate the wire length and the velocity factor, you should know IN ADVANCE how long it SHOULD take to come out the other end.  If the wire was straight and not wound in a coil, you would see calculated delay equal (or very close to) actual delay.  With your coil, you WILL NOT see the delay you calculated.  Why?

The electric field will jump from loop to loop almost straight through with the delay roughly equal to the length of your coil spool, NOT the length of wire.

So what does this mean?

Good question.

I suspect this is the mechanism you use to figure out series and parallel resonance.  The long way (total wire length) should equate to the parallel (low frequency) resonance.  The short way (length of the coil spool) should equate to the series (high frequency) resonance.

This is my thinking at the moment.  If there are more details that need to be added here, please comment on this post with the missing information that is needed to get the correct values for the two resonance frequencies.

From these two values, then I think we have enough information to tune against the rotation RPM.  My gut tells me the two SRF frequencies should produce a beat frequency which actually correlates to the optimal running RPM.
haha, funny. did you watch video 15? i cover this. in thought forum, not that it answers anything but i explain my self what your saying here.

interesting thought about the beet frequency. me thinks something else here, but i like the thought.

Just so everyone knows. Richard and i pinged the coil with 10-50MHZ and the coil did some fun stuff at 20-25MHZ... we concluded it was what we were looking for, but when you get to those frequencys... things get tricky. and we need to have a better test setup. This is on the to to list.

~Russ

Matt Watts

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1110, on January 31st, 2018, 10:42 PM »Last edited on January 31st, 2018, 10:44 PM
Quote from ~Russ on January 31st, 2018, 08:04 PM
Greate feed back!
On the question you raised at the end of your video...

I'd like to see well prepared pictures/drawings on poster paper that you go through rather quickly.  The whiteboard slows you down and makes it easy for you to get off-track and ramble.  Just my opinion--don't shoot me over it.


INDUCTION CURRENTS

Start with this one.  Draw out a cut-away view of seven wires in a bundle.  The center wire is where we focus the initial current.  Show the induction of what happens to the six wires around this center wire, how the currents reverse and collide with the neighboring wires.  We need to experience the complexity in these induction currents.  They are not simple.  With a better feel for this, it may become possible to see a method to arrange these bundles in a more suitable manner that produces a more optimal/predictable outcome.

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1111, on January 31st, 2018, 10:48 PM »
Quote from Matt Watts on January 31st, 2018, 10:42 PM
On the question you raised at the end of your video...

I'd like to see well prepared pictures/drawings on poster paper that you go through rather quickly.  The whiteboard slows you down and makes it easy for you to get off-track and ramble.  Just my opinion--don't shoot me over it.


INDUCTION CURRENTS

Start with this one.  Draw out a cut-away view of seven wires in a bundle.  The center wire is where we focus the initial current.  Show the induction of what happens to the six wires around this center wire, how the currents reverse and collide with the neighboring wires.  We need to experience the complexity in these induction currents.  They are not simple.  With a better feel for this, it may become possible to see a method to arrange these bundles in a more suitable manner that produces a more optimal/predictable outcome.
Both greate ideas...

I think the prep work some times would be worth it, and other times not. The notes take me. Days some. Times...  Lol
 ~Russ

sonnet

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1112, on February 1st, 2018, 02:42 AM »Last edited on February 1st, 2018, 03:40 AM
Quote
If anyone had bothered to just put down the old theories and see this as I and others are seeing it, you might understand why I say there is no electron.
To answer you John.
The trouble is when I have commented on the electron it has been because Newman references spinning particles. and I try to narrow down my visions of what is happening to just this topic...
If Newman had said Plasma (which is to me the collection of high energy electrons acting as a collective of charge...Just another state of electrons) I would engage more on this topic with you...'What is plasma' he didn't say plasma we only need to see for this thread the interaction of a spinning particle...
But when Russ started to give me the need to think of where the charge is on a capacitor he was alluding more that needed to be explained and as the electron is used in electronics (funny that) explaining to myself and I think Russ saw it too, Russ knew that there was a charge around the coil...
I was initially seeing this charge as going back to the coil and like a light bulb he switched in my mind, I saw what even I had said but no twigged..the charge goes to the lowest potential...in our case with the coil it was the earth, in my mind thinking of the actual planet earth scenario I had said as much
but when I transposed that thought to the coil I saw it going back to the coil (my mistake in part), but the coil is not the lowest potential The earth is.
You might think of the electron in the atmosphere as dark plasma john, so I could use the term dark plasma for a collective of electrons free from there atom binding shell...therefore in this case electrons are low energy state plasma. and the universe is full of plasma john it permeates everything does it not.
So in my mind now I see planet earth as a conductor with capacitance, this charge is held in space because of how electrons are in the magnetic field...(they are the magnetic field to me john ,,to me)
They get there because of our core has a moment of magnetism throwing the electron out into a field by the potential it creates...once there they interact and their spin can increase, by high energy particles from the sun..this holds the magnetic field,when enough electrons have amassed the charge connects to earth and discharges literally to earth...putting energy in the earth and spin increases or should I say the inertia is maintained in our magnetic moment. It probably also creates heat in the earth core so I would expect volcanic eruptions and disturbances of that nature during after sun flares.
the spin of the earth has to balance the output from that creating the self series resonance...The resonant frequency of the earth. This effect creates our ionosphere which protects us. And allows gods beautiful earth to flourish.
Mars needs to change its spin frequency and it too can start to build a ionosphere in the same way.
Russ was the man that showed me that god does exists, not because I take Russ,s word of a god but events in my life have shown god speaks the truth and ask and you shall receive, is something we should remember especially in times of crises.
  Thank you Russ..

Sorry I digressed but this post is as much for me as anyone reading it.
I don't wish to carry on with counter claims to my statements here, but may talk on future threads else where, for now its NEWMAN's topic.

 

sonnet

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1113, on February 1st, 2018, 04:07 AM »Last edited on February 1st, 2018, 04:29 AM
@john
If you have understood me john i will state it here again

The electron does not exist....long live the electron

plasma is the spinning particle...

now i'll back track and say....

sheep do not exist, there is no such thing as a sheep
only flocks exist, you are seeing flocks...you are not seeing the legs from above. your seeing fluffy clouds of something
but if one thing/element escapes the flock give the opportunity to call it a sheep.
spin that fluffy sheep fast enough and it too looks like a flock from above. spin it with a moment of magnetism 1/2 spin and it will look like the sheep is circular because of the orbit it takes.
more mad analogues i'm full of them. please see i'm only trying to paint a picture don't take them too literally. no sheep were harmed in this thought experiment..

So you see plasma, I see electrons.. they are electrons because of there lower energy state until they reach a critical state I then see plasma.
Its just your view point I think john..
regards


sonnet

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1114, on February 1st, 2018, 06:11 AM »Last edited on February 1st, 2018, 06:31 AM
Quote
We can not locate the electron, not because we haven't tried but because in this example it doesn't exist. The best picture of an electron will shock you.
@ John
Now your right the electron doesn't exist,so I'll say why your right instead of why i'm opposing you..

If I stopped the electrons spin...dead (I can't) but in this thought experiment I will.
You would have no mass, No particle...here we are both agreed the electron would not exists as a particle.
So whats there...for a moment of time dt a charge exists. can we agree there so far??

OK add spin created by a moment of magnetism and our charge spins now, it exists as what we called up to now in science a electron only because it displays its inertia, we do see it as a physical particle. Because of it physical spin via a moment of magnetism it now has mass. via e=mc2 or equivalent equation for energy in motion.

You keep saying to me that we cant see it, because you want a dt fixed snap shot of said electron and if we did that it would not exist. The named electron is the sum of its properties which give it form.

Just like a bar magnet can push another bar magnet with out touching it because of the inertia but that little bit of magic acts as if it was mass there pushing..this is the whole crux of this...if I closed your eyes put a magnet in your hand and said tell me when i'm pushing that object and i moved a like pole to the magnet you would swear I was pushing the object in your hand, you not knowing what it was...you would say it was a physic push.

So my best simple way to explain the electron is to say its a invisible bar magnet spinning at a point where the axle goes through the bloch's wall. stop it and you see nothing, spin it and its a whole different ball game...
Your video was exactly what i expected to see,the same as looking at a bicycle wheel while under a strobe we are trying to focus on the spokes but cant because the matter is not there.If you were to have tried to take a picture you would have seen nothing,you are seeing the charge as a measurement calibrated to light and plotted.

SqueezingSparks

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1115, on February 1st, 2018, 09:04 AM »
The true "language" of electronics and understanding things like motors and analog and digital circuits in operation is a timing diagram.

Note this first image shows how an annotated timing diagram shows how one event leads to another event on a different signal.  That helps people understand.

How do you do a timing diagram?  Simple, you look at your scope traces and then draw it out on paper with pencil.  You can trace as many signals as you want, and even make derived signals if you want to.

For example, at the end of a fire cycle you are going to get a plasma burn during the no-contact time before the commutator does a short of the two coil contacts.  So the event of the commutator disconnecting the battery from the coil leads to the event of the plasma burn.  Will the plasma burn still be taking place before the commutator then shorts out the coil?  That can be revealed on the timing diagram.  How much will the coil current decrease during the plasma burn?  How much will the coil current decrease during the shorting cycle?  All of that can be revealed on the timing diagram.  What about at the end of the shorting cycle, will there be another plasma burn?  One more time, that can be put onto the timing diagram.  What about the effects of the induced EMF in the coil from the rotating magnet?  All of that can be revealed on the timing diagram.

SqueezingSparks

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1116, on February 1st, 2018, 09:28 AM »
I have attached a simple timing diagram showing the capacitor voltage for a running 555 timer.  You can see the exponential curves showing the voltage on the capacitor increasing and decreasing as it bounces back and forth between the two comparitor thresholds in the timer.  That's just to give you a sense of how a well-done timing diagram is useful for analog, digital, and other signals.

So what about the Newman motor?  For starters there would be a timing diagram for the full 360-degree rotation of the commutator.  At normal operating speed, you can plot the approximate EMF induced in the coil.  It doesn't have to be super accurate, but the precise phase of the EMF waveform needs to be shown.

You have 10 "positive" firing cycles, and 10 "negative" firing cycles as the commutator makes a full revolution.  So what will the effects of the EMF waveform be on each firing cycle?  That's why you need the EMF waveform, to help you understand what its influence might be on a specific firing cycle.

Likewise, for each firing cycle, the amount of torque that it can impart on the rotor is different.  Some of the firing cycles have the potential to impart lots of torque on the rotor and give it a decent push, and some of the firing cycles will barely be able to give the rotor a push.  So you can have a virtual signal on the timing diagram for the "potential torque."  How do you generate this signal?  It's easy, you just hold the rotor magnet at a given angle and energize the coil and feel the torque with your hand.

For the EMF waveform and the "potential torque" waveform, are they in phase and one in the same?  I am not sure but this can easily be found out by doing the testing on the bench.

Think about this:  You now know what the approximate EMF and the "potential torque" is for the 10 "positive" firing cycles and the 10 "negative" firing cycles.  Let's say you examine "positive" firing cycle #2.  You notice that the fire pulse puts a lot of current through the coil.  You can then determine if the EMF waveform is helping you get current into the coil or not.  Perhaps more importantly, you look at how firing cycle #2 lines up with the "potential torque" waveform and notice that the "potential torque" is very low for firing cycle #2.  So even though the firing pulse got a lot of current to flow though the coil, in this case it gave the rotor only a tiny push.  I am not saying it is like this, this is just a hypothetical illustration.

Timing diagrams when you are trying to understand a motor and also look for extra energy are everything.

SqueezingSparks

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1117, on February 1st, 2018, 09:49 AM »Last edited on February 1st, 2018, 10:30 AM
Just to finish off here, needless to say a timing diagram focusing on a full firing cycle with the fire and the short and the blanks, etc, is very important.  Looking at the coil get energized during the firing cycle and then seeing how it discharges during the rest of the cycle and understanding the energy dynamics will explain how the motor works.

Signals that can be put on the timing diagram:

Commutator fire, short, and blank time
Battery voltage
Battery current
Input power (this is a derived virtual signal, the battery voltage times the battery current)
Input energy (a derived virtual signal from the input power)
Coil voltage
Coil current
Resistive losses in coil  (this is a derived virtual signal, the square of the coil current times the resistance of the coil)
(Note the coil current gives you an approximate value of the push that is imparted on the rotor, depending on which firing pulse it is,  i.e.; the angle on the commutator.)
When plasma burns are taking place
Power in and power out
Perhaps some other signals

Like I already said, different firing cycles at different angles on the commutator will presumably have somewhat different characteristics because of the influence of the EMF induced in the coil by the rotating magnet.  So perhaps a few select timing diagrams would help.

Finally, once you have the timing for the motor, if you then make changes to the configuration you can do before and after comparisons to the timing which is also very useful.

SqueezingSparks

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1118, on February 1st, 2018, 10:17 AM »Last edited on February 1st, 2018, 10:31 AM
Just a comment on the subtleties about a firing pulse that imparts a lot of torque on the rotor and gives it a big push.  I am only giving some guidelines here, and here is where some bench testing really becomes important.

The way to look at this is in terms of energy.  You know that during the pulse you can record the battery voltage and current with your DSO and actually measure the amount of energy that goes into the firing pulse.  This energy forms an "energy pie."  So the question is, how is that energy pie sliced up?  It's a very important question.  Here is where you leverage your bench skills and your noggin to do some interesting tricks.

Here is what we know before we even start:  The energy pie gets sliced three ways, 1) energy imparted into the rotor, 2) energy put into the magnetic field of the coil, and 3) resistive losses in the coil.

So, we have the current waveform and we also know the resistance of the coil.  We can ask our DSO to compute the RMS value of the current waveform.  And with that information like magic we can calculate the resistive losses in the coil.

Then, we know the final current level in the coil at the end of the firing pulse.  And we already made a precise measurement of the inductance of the coil in a previous test.  Therefore, more magic, we can calculate the amount of energy in the magnetic field of the coil at the end of the firing pulse.

And then here comes the real magic:  Here is the amount of mechanical energy imparted into the rotor during the firing pulse:

Rotor mechanical energy imparted by a firing pulse = (firing pulse energy) - (coil magnetic field energy) - (coil resistive losses energy)

So in theory, you can actually calculate how much of a mechanical push on the rotor a given firing pulse gives.  It's just a matter of doing some (slightly) fancy footwork with your DSO.

sonnet

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1119, on February 1st, 2018, 10:33 AM »Last edited on February 1st, 2018, 10:41 AM
Quote
This energy forms an "energy pie."
@ss
A venn diagram would seem to be more appropriate, so we could merge the 'energy pie' for different segments of the commutator power usage..but i bow to your knowledge

sonnet

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1120, on February 1st, 2018, 11:08 AM »
also a strain gauge can be purchased quite cheaply to measure the initial force from the magnet torque...check them out..

Cycle

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1121, on February 1st, 2018, 11:16 AM »Last edited on February 3rd, 2018, 11:52 PM by Cycle
Quote from jbignes5 on January 31st, 2018, 06:09 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HvXhwrlOGI

 Just watch it, pause it and read the text in the video.
 Plasma is Plasma, it makes no difference if it is in space or here.
 It talks about a circuit and plasma.
 That is all I got to say.
The text in that video clearly states that outer magnetosphere and interplanetary space (and hence, the quantum vacuum as well) does not meet the requirements of using Equation (5), partly because the mean free path length of the quantum vacuum is, for all practical purposes, infinite as compared to the characteristic length of variation of B, E, etc., and the mean free path length of electrons in the outer magnetosphere and interplanetary space is far longer than the characteristic length of variation of B, E, etc.

When the electron drift velocity equals the sound velocity in a plasma, coupling occurs which transfers energy from the electrons to the sound waves, giving rise to anomalous resistivity. Because you'll remember that electrons are matter, they have rest mass and inertia... or to put it in the parlance of Quantum Field Theory, they are a standing wave (still traveling at c, but held in place in our frame of reference by the scalar Higgs field, a component of the Quantum Vacuum)... that's pretty much the definition of matter, and the difference between energy and matter... merely the frame of reference. Because you'll also remember that matter is a form of energy, hence energy and matter are two forms of the same thing, hence e2 = p2c2 + m2c4.

If the driving electric field is strong enough, electrons will gain more energy than they lose to collisions, accelerating them... a secondary electric field. Since a magnetic field is merely an electric field in a transformed frame of reference, the non-Maxwellian velocity distribution of the electric field gives rise to a magnetic field, which can produce Langmuir double sheaths in a classic z-pinch.

You'll note this is in a hot collisional plasma, one which is forced into existence either via electrical discharge or gravitational aggregation (as in stars).

The quantum vacuum (being a superfluid of virtual fermion-antifermion pairs) is a collisionless cold plasma, and hence it cannot do what you're misinterpreting it to do.

Further, you appear to be attempting to conflate the different types of Langmuir double sheaths, in addition to redefining Langmuir's original definition of plasma. You're primarily referring to Current-Driven Double Sheaths, which don't occur in interplanetary space except in unusually energetic conditions (in the vicinity of magnetars, neutron stars, black holes which have accretion disks which eject a jet of plasma out into space) and are not mediated by the quantum vacuum, they're mediated by matter (electrons, protons, thermal ions). Surface Double Sheaths only occur when a plasma smacks into a surface (such as a satellite or probe), so you can't be referring to that. Gradient Double Sheaths cannot occur in the quantum vacuum, as it homogeneously permeates the universe with only localized gradients brought about by localized energetic conditions (ie: it's not the quantum vacuum creating the gradient).

Langmuir double sheaths only occur when the current-carrying capacity of the plasma in question is exceeded. Thus it requires quite a lot of energy to create them, especially on a large scale. Langmuir himself discovered this in 1929.

"Plasma is Plasma" is wrong... there are different types of plasma, exhibiting different characteristics and behaviors.

talisman

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1122, on February 1st, 2018, 11:49 AM »Last edited on February 1st, 2018, 11:54 AM
Resistance is the key. The "energy" can transformed to "power" in "amp".

In one model they are the electrons whose movement is an attraction by the energy state polarity of magnetic force.
Tesla visions the standing transverse wave. Energy is transformed where it is most conducive to its transformation and we reconstruct those conditions in our generators.

The least force is applied to volts in their magnetic movement; and is the least line of resistance hence efficient transport media.

Some individuals commenting online have said zero point states of resistance are only possible at absolute zero.

With what we are saying about current direction and time show the electrons can relationally be inertial at room temperature
in a circuit perhaps not perfect but to a gradient value close enough and real.   
 

SqueezingSparks

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1123, on February 1st, 2018, 11:56 AM »
Just another thought, in the theme of "getting to know your Newman motor."  Obviously, the more you understand how the motor works and the more you understand the energy dynamics of the motor, the better your abilities are for detecting any potential excess energy output from the motor.

We know that when the axis of the rotating magnet is in alignment with the magnetic field subtended by the coil, that there will be no torque and no impulse energy imparted on the rotor magnet at the alignment angle if there was a firing pulse at that instant in time.  More realistically, we know that there will be commutator firing pulses on either side of the alignment angle that will give a very weak push on the rotor magnet.  Likewise, we can assume that when the rotor angle is at 90 degrees to the magnetic field subtended by the coil, it will give you maximum torque and a maximum push on the rotor magnet when there is a firing pulse.

I think that we can correlate the above with the induced EMF in the coil and possibly get a "prize" at the end of the analysis.  I caution that this is all a thought experiment and the bench will tell the real truth.

It looks to me like when the moving rotor magnet is close to alignment with the coil's magnetic field (weak push) then the EMF induced in the coil will be a minimum.  Likewise, when the moving rotor magnet is at right angles to the coil's magnetic field (maximum push) the EMF induced in the coil will be a maximum.

Effectively, the EMF waveform in the coil is what looks like the counter-EMF when the battery wants to push current through the coil during the firing pulse.  Assuming this is true, this is a classic counter-intuitive result with respect to the current flow:  You get higher current flowing into the coil for the weak pushes and lower current flowing into the coil for the strong pushes.  The current draw is reduced during the strong pushes because there is a lot of counter-EMF in the coil due to the angle of the rotating magnet.

Here is the possibility for the "prize:"

I stated in a previous posting that you can do the energy pie for the firing pulse and by leveraging the power of your DSO and doing some simple math you can actually calculate the number of mechanical Joules of energy imparted into the rotor for a given firing pulse on the commutator.   Let's say it is firing pulse #5 on the commutator and the mechanical energy is called "Energy_Mech_5." Energy_Mech_5 is a certain number of Joules.

Now, let's suppose that our battery voltage during these tests is 250 volts and we know from analyzing our EMF waveform that during firing pulse #5 that the average EMF voltage is 175 volts.  So we will assume that that 175 volts is the counter-EMF when the firing pulse happens.

We know the current waveform during firing pulse #5.  And we know the counter-EMF is 175 volts.  That means that we can do a multiplication of (pulse current x counter-EMF x time) to calculate the amount of battery energy "put into the counter-EMF" for lack of a better term.  Let's call that energy "Energy_CEMF_5."

Here is the trick:  Let's go out on a limb and assume that all of the (current x counter-EMF x time) energy actually goes into pushing on the rotor.  In other words the counter-EMF in the coil is the "agent" of the spinning rotor magnet.  If that's true then the counter-EMF that you see on the coil has a direct linkage to the process of imparting mechanical energy into the spinning rotor magnet.

This would be the proof in the pudding:   Energy_Mech_5 = Energy_CEMF_5.

If that is true (or they are approximately the same) then you have demonstrated two ways of determining how much mechanical energy is imparted into the rotor for a given firing pulse.

Again, this is all a thought experiment and it could be wrong.  But even if it is wrong, by doing this you improve your bench skills and you get to know the motor even better.  This is all about searching for excess energy in a Newman motor.  The more you understand the energy dynamics of the motor, the closer you get to your goal.

talisman

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #1124, on February 1st, 2018, 05:49 PM »

Russ you asked the question what happens when a wire with a coiling on one side with the switch being closed before the current reaches it.

I will try to answer the question with a thought experiment. Pure intuition and then reference later.

In short it depend on the type of current and that is a parameter. There is natural static current, DC and conditioned state AC merging to RF
in the video.

We must sound the trumpets and clarions for conscious realization.

Different states of current apply to different branches of electrical theory.

My thought for a straight wire low current DC without the coil. Current is the activation of movement of electrons flowing in the wire. They do not  start move themselves relative to the wire(circuit) when the circuit is connected by the switch. They want to combine via magnetic attraction (spin or other) when the switch is closed starting the motive action to the opposite (not opposing in this context) polarization in direction.

What happens when the switch is opened before they made it to the switch?

The polarized electrons slow relative to the connection in transit. The magnetic attraction is gone resistance is non wire atmospheric and less
conductive. They stay as polarized electrons not converted by the force of resistance of a load (and this implies momentum loss).