Morning everyone or maybe i should say good night, funny Hehe.

@Russ, when i said that you will never power a house with the unit you have, i might have been wrong about that statement, took me awhile to realize it but if you put really thick wire above or below the coil and you induce enough current and steps it down you actually could have the most efficient air-core transformer ever, The Newman Transformer.

Because what i have seen you do in "The Search For Answers Part 14"  and all the other live streaming, you almost always moved with the magnet or with the small coil and because of that you are making a generator.

When you apply power to the coil and you still spinning the magnet by hand, then that can only means that the magnetic field from the coil is not strong enought to move the magnet with no load on it and because of that, what you are measuring on the scope is the magnetic field that is interfering or inducing voltage and current with the applyed power and to make it complicated then add the shorting of the coil, ringing and sparking and the scope becomes unreadable.

If you put some load on it let's say 1KW (it is 1.34 HP) and then you apply power to the coil that is much bigger than what you are doing right now (hard guess 2 000 to 10 000 Volts), then the magnetic field will be stonger enought to move the magnet with the load and the magnetic field from the magnet should not be inducing anything into the coil it self at that point because it always is in a repulsion mode and the magnetic field from the magnet is no longer touching the magnetic field from the coil.

That is why i agree with Matt on this.

And i strongly believe that as long as you use an air core and the magnetic field from the coil is equel or greater (=>) to the magnetic field of the magnet, then you should not worry about any lenz's law.

And you could answer me this question, maybe it will help you too to move on with your experiments in the right direction, the question is: Are you making a generator or a motor ?
I think you are making a generator (my observation only)

@Russ
Listening to your conversation..
Glad you hear that your commutator with the 'fire-gap-short-gap-blank' needs to loose that gap after the fire...in your mind.
I have no doubt you will be rewarded for that Russ...and glad my earlier post were not totally in vain..

Trapping the charge in a capacitor would be good to continue the flow to the short...

Would the magnetic field be lost in the coil at the point of change over...well true answer is a tiny bit, but the field reacts to slowly for you to have to worry...just like your voltage test on a magnet passing over the coil in the previous video posted, there would be a slight dip at the peaks but the flow is going the same way so no harm done....no spin change...in my view you would be good to go.

@Russ
you spoke off cutting through the magnetic flux and magnetron referenced the particle energy being set free...you went on to say how does it get back in..
let me compare this to the electron again for you....
The electron moves very quirky...not unlike a boomerang leaves a point and circles and comes back whilst the angular moment can turn...
read that paper i posted...to get what I am about to say...
When you spin an electron its like holding a child's arms as they flip...this is why i gave Matt his gears are have elastic axis...in the child's case as the child flips the child's arms allow them to gambol over but on completion of a full flip they are not exactly were they started in terms of angle..
like a hand on a clock face, turn it around once 360^o and it returns to the number it started from but if the electron is continuously flipped it will slowly come back to a few minutes before, another flip and another flip and it is now quite a few degrees behind...think of the child's arms tightening as the flips go on...in reality the child's arms would break but hopefully you see that a second flip is harder than the first...this gives the electron orbital motion , like a boomerang. Or makes it appear to be in a cloud. a orbital cloud..
well if our particle was like the property of the electron it would go around once outside the mass like this boomerang orbital making its orbital cloud..
more food for thought.
I'm obviously alluding to the fact that our particle is a quantum particle with 1/2 spin. and in a high energy state.

@magnetron
your conversation again...
you could measure the time delay through the coil but you would have to unwind the coil so the wire was a single length i.e.not a coil....am I right...?

Quote from Tavote on January 30th, 2018, 12:45 AM

Morning everyone or maybe i should say good night, funny Hehe.

If you put some load on it let's say 1KW (it is 1.34 HP) and then you apply power to the coil that is much bigger than what you are doing right now (hard guess 2 000 to 10 000 Volts), then the magnetic field will be stonger enought to move the magnet with the load and the magnetic field from the magnet should not be inducing anything into the coil it self at that point because it always is in a repulsion mode and the magnetic field from the magnet is no longer touching the magnetic field from the coil.

Hey Tavote... your statement above triggered a memory of something I read in one of Newman's patent applications.
Neman states:
Now a different result:
b) When the electric current from battery 201 (301) becomes weaker to the point that the magnetic field coming from coil 205 (305) has
weakened and shrunk allowing the magnetic field of the rotating magnet 200 (300) to expand and then noticeably induce electric current
into coil 206 (306) and into coil 205 (305), then reverse results are observed.

Russ' magnet's are so strong that we probable have not put enough voltage into the coil to force the magnet's field outside the boundries of the big coil.
wow

Just finished the rest of that conversation guys...yep sounds good to me.   We spoke way back about the inductive reactance and that's why russ's .doc was bang on the money....for me you lost it a bit with the fire-short-blank but I can see your getting back to it...

Tavote makes some good points, things to note for later...
Tavote you in the UK??
could sure do with a brain like yours some time...
Regards

Quote from sonnet on January 30th, 2018, 08:05 AM

Just finished the rest of that conversation guys...yep sounds good to me.   We spoke way back about the inductive reactance and that's why russ's .doc was bang on the money....for me you lost it a bit with the fire-short-blank but I can see your getting back to it...

Tavote makes some good points, things to note for later...
Tavote you in the UK??
could sure do with a brain like yours some time...
Regards

I am pretty sure she (Tavote) is a genius

Quote from Magneton on January 30th, 2018, 07:51 AM

Hey Tavote... your statement above triggered a memory of something I read in one of Newman's patent applications.
Neman states:
Now a different result:
b) When the electric current from battery 201 (301) becomes weaker to the point that the magnetic field coming from coil 205 (305) has
weakened and shrunk allowing the magnetic field of the rotating magnet 200 (300) to expand and then noticeably induce electric current
into coil 206 (306) and into coil 205 (305), then reverse results are observed.

Russ' magnet's are so strong that we probable have not put enough voltage into the coil to force the magnet's field outside the boundries of the big coil.
wow

Found it, page 32 out of 56 in the Patent Application, it is amazing how it depict exactly what i said above and i even didn't know that it was written there. I have to read that Patent Application all over again but this time word by word :)

Thank you Magneton

you are welcome Tavote

Quote from sonnet on January 30th, 2018, 08:05 AM

Just finished the rest of that conversation guys...yep sounds good to me.   We spoke way back about the inductive reactance and that's why russ's .doc was bang on the money....for me you lost it a bit with the fire-short-blank but I can see your getting back to it...

Tavote makes some good points, things to note for later...
Tavote you in the UK??
could sure do with a brain like yours some time...
Regards

I'm only few kilometers away from you, just Czech Republic it's not that far Hehe :)

I'm not that special really, i just research all about Newman that i could find and then i read it again, again and again.
Patent Application is an exception, that i have to read again :D

Quote

I'm only few kilometers away from you, just Czech Republic it's not that far Hehe

Shame was going to pop around and install that home power unit with you...Lol
Laughing aside, have no doubts tavote you will be installing it soon.
Your near my time zone, so good to have you aboard...
Regards

Quote

1) The battery is switched across the coil and a current wavefront (gyroscopic
   particles)  propagates  into  the coil  at a speed determined by the coil's
   propagation time constant.

2) Before the  wavefront  completes its journey  through the coil, the battery
   voltage is switched open.   At  this point the coil contains a charge equal
   to the current times the on-time.

3) When the  switch  is opened,  all of this  charge leaves the coil in a very
   short time, creating a very large current pulse in the coil.

4) The magnetic  field  generated by  this current pulse  (gyroscopic particle
   flow)  propagates  out  to the  permanent  magnet armature, and gives it an
   impulsive torque.

5) The magnet accelerates, and the resulting magnetic field disturbance of the
   permanent  magnet  is  propagated  back to the coil,  creating  a back-emf.
   However,  by the time this occurs,  the switch is open so that the back emf
   does not impede the current flowing in the battery circuit.

Just some comments about the above analysis.  I note the analysis is about a different build that may contain a much larger coil.

Note in Russ's case the battery won't be switched open before the voltage wavefront completes its journey through the coil.

The biggest issue is this statement, "When the  switch  is opened,  all of this  charge leaves the coil in a very short time, creating a very large current pulse in the coil."  Coils act to prevent changes in the current flow, and he is suggesting that a "very large current pulse" will take place when the switch is opened.  For a normal coil when the switch is opened, the current flow does not change.   Assuming the coil is creating a plasma burn in the air the instant the switch opens, then the current flow simply decreases to zero during the plasma burn.

In a nutshell he is saying that with a very large coil if you energize it for a very short time you "inject current into it" (like a capacitor) and then when you disconnect the energizing voltage you get a "large current impulse" out of the coil, and presumably he means that the large current impulse is at a much higher current level than the level of current that was flowing into the coil while it was being energized.

The current in a coil can not spike high and then give a torque impulse to the rotating magnet in the way he is suggesting.  The only way to get a spike in the current though a big coil would be to put an astronomical amount of voltage across the coil during the short spike time.

So for me that report written up on the Newman motor has some major issues which affect its credibility.

And somebody mentioned the "spinning" analogy for an energized coil which is a perfect analogy.  The analogy is that the size of the spinning disk (or flywheel) is like the amount of inductance in the coil, the torque you apply to the flywheel is the voltage you apply across the coil, and the RPM of the flywheel is the current flow though the coil.

So in that analysis the guy is suggesting that the flywheel suddenly takes a big jump in RPM the moment you stop applying torque.  Common sense tells us the moment you stop applying torque to the flywheel that it keeps spinning at the same RPM.

Quote from SqueezingSparks on January 30th, 2018, 09:38 AM

In a nutshell he is saying that with a very large coil if you energize it for a very short time you "inject current into it" (like a capacitor) and then when you disconnect the energizing voltage you get a "large current impulse" out of the coil, and presumably he means that the large current impulse is at a much higher current level than the level of current that was flowing into the coil while it was being energized.

In the circuit I'm toying with in the falstad circuit emulator (a re-work of Lawton's 555-timer triggered WFC circuit), I set it up so that when battery voltage was switched off to the inductor, the still-'spinning' inductor drew current from the low-voltage rail (0 volts, ground). This helps to keep the inductor 'spinning' (if it 'spins' all the way down, it takes awhile to get 'spinning' again... you want it to keep 'spinning' at least a little bit), and that current is then pushed back into the battery.

I'm getting ~2500 pulses in the WFC per second of ~578 amps each (analogous to the WFC 'dielectric' (the water) breaking down), while charging the battery at (an admittedly tiny rate of) ~2 watts. In fact, I replaced the battery with a 1 F cap charged to exactly 12 V (accurate to the picovolt level... 0.00 picovolt differential between the battery and cap)... the cap is currently at 12.4873 V... no battery is connected in the circuit.

So perhaps a diode and a ground rod connected on the upstream side of the coil in Russ's circuit, so the coil can continue sucking in current from ground when battery voltage is cut off?

Quote

Note in Russ's case the battery won't be switched open before the voltage wavefront completes its journey through the coil

Yes correct, that would be one massive coil if your trying to beat the speed of light minus a small percentage.
We are at best trying to beat the current which lags. But you need the rpm to do this. And the cemf. Even then a task to do.
I must emphasize trying.

Cycle:

For a coil, it's all about what is across the two terminals of the coil when you switch off the battery voltage.  So you don't need access to a ground for electrons, all that the coil needs is a path for the current to flow between the two terminals.  If you want to preserve the energy in the coil, then the best thing between the two terminals is a short circuit.  The ideal short circuit will keep the ideal coil "spinning" indefinitely.  In your simulation, I am assuming that you are using an ideal coil with zero resistance, so check the path between the two terminals when the battery is switched off.

Another way of putting it is that when you stop energizing the coil with the battery voltage, then the coil "switches gears" and changes from being a device that is absorbing energy to a device that wants to output energy.  The only thing that will prevent the coil from outputting energy is a short circuit across the two terminals of the coil.  In other words, the coil needs a completed circuit, a current loop, to keep the current flowing.

When you are playing with your simulator you can try a fun little experiment.  Set up a Bedini type of circuit with a transistor or a MOSFET that energizes the coil and set up a 555-type pulse train signal that switches the transistor on and off.  When the transistor switches off, let's say you have the pulse timing set up so one amp of current is flowing through the coil.  Instead of a charging battery as the load like in a Bedini motor, try different load resistors.  If you put a one-ohm resistor as the load and put a voltage probe on that resistor, you will see that the coil generates a one-volt pulse.  If you put a one megaohm resistor, then you will see that the coil generates a one million-volt pulse.

SS

Quote from SqueezingSparks on January 30th, 2018, 10:41 AM

Cycle:

For a coil, it's all about what is across the two terminals of the coil when you switch off the battery voltage.  So you don't need access to a ground for electrons, all that the coil needs is a path for the current to flow between the two terminals.  If you want to preserve the energy in the coil, then the best thing between the two terminals is a short circuit.

Ah. I did something similar in the circuit emulator... an inductor to give a 'soft-start' voltage rise for the 555 timer part of the circuit (a crude timer to allow some current to get flowing through the WFC part of the circuit before the 555 timer kicks in), and a cap to smooth voltage fluctuations. Across the inductor, there's a diode pointing the opposite direction to normal current flow... the inductor 'spins up' as the cap charges, and when the cap is fully charged, the inductor continues 'spinning' while dumping through the diode and right back into the inductor.

Quote from SqueezingSparks on January 30th, 2018, 10:41 AM

In your simulation, I am assuming that you are using an ideal coil with zero resistance, so check the path between the two terminals when the battery is switched off.

Ah, you're right... they don't take into account the resistance of the inductors... I thought they did, but that's reactance... I'll alter my circuit to take this into account.

So, if the coil is around 437,000 feet long of copper wire and 45,500 ohms of resistance it should take (at the speed of light) about .000437 seconds for a voltage pulse to go from end to end. Does the voltage "wavefront" get to the other end faster than that because of coupling between the 235000 turns?

Quote from sonnet on January 30th, 2018, 10:32 AM

Yes correct, that would be one massive coil if your trying to beat the speed of light minus a small percentage.
We are at best trying to beat the current which lags. But you need the rpm to do this. And the cemf. Even then a task to do.
I must emphasize trying.

Wait wait wait. 

@SS your not thinking what heppes in this coil. 

You have to look at what happens. 

You might want to reread my my DOC.  As it clearly states how this works.  Induction currents....

I will also be covering this in my video 15 tomarrow. 

And you have to look at the reactance of this coil.  Not just the lingth of wire!!

And lastly.  I'd you use this induction current to genarate the spike then yes.  You can do this ezactaly. 

It only gives more credit to newman. 

In the current coil that richard wraped,  you only need to hit 2.22khz and you above the 70% veolocrity factor.

If you add the reactance to this you can drop thst even more.  Don't forget thses things are calulated in a vac for the speed of light.  Add capatance and you might get below,  70%

So yes.  The end plan is to be above the speed of light. 

Seems there are alot of details missed out.  Might need to comb over that auido file SS. 

Will reply to the rest of thses comments when I can. 

Trying to get my stuff out of boxes!  Oh!

~Russ

Just fyi.  Start a new thred to respond to distractions.  (I'll clean this up. Later)

~Russ

Quote

So, if the coil is around 437,000 feet long of copper wire and 45,500 ohms of resistance it should take (at the speed of light) about .000437 seconds for a voltage pulse to go from end to end. Does the voltage "wavefront" get to the other end faster than that because of coupling between the 235000 turns?

@Magneton
I don't want to try to teach you electronics wizards to suck eggs...(don't know if that saying translates to the USA but) forgive me..

When you have a high reactance in your coil you are shorting the coil, the voltage can jump across from the start coil wire to the end coil wire,the coil reacts as if its a capacitor in a A/C circuit because of the resonance in the circuit...
remember a capacitor has no resistance and we have made the coil perform as if its a capacitor.
we covered this way way back..
So with a lot less real resistance yes the speed at which the voltage and current travels is so much faster as when our rotor is at the right rpm the propagation just doesn't see the coil length...

I think I said that right.....Russ correct me if I'm wrong.   I see it in my mind but doubt my wording in describing it to others..
watch these invaluable video's if you really want to see how the resistance disappears because of Z..Impedance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyMH8wKK-Ag&index=25&list=PLDviBh_Pm9wjX4MT7_IWA7HNTNETJH4Di

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZBMfDvWF4U&index=26&list=PLDviBh_Pm9wjX4MT7_IWA7HNTNETJH4Di&t=775s

Remember you cant learn want you think you already know...god bless this msg.
regards

if anyone wonders where there missing post went... just refer back to post 995 and also read the forum rules.

positive criticism is welcome.... this includes personal messages...   

back to a question..

Quote from jbignes5 on January 26th, 2018, 06:49 PM

Russ do you have any comment over the schematic I drew of the motor?

 Does the signal look right between (Time T) and (Time T2)?

 Remember your video.. Time T are the time markings for polarities of the coil being generated in the coil halves. Left and right being at the same time because of the travel of the magnet across the wires in the coil. The upper right shows the polarity of the coil on that side only. Each loop would feel both positive and negative fields and generate that polarity on that side. The current would flow evenly from one side then the other, right? as the magnet rotated in the coil, right?... Remember the loops of the coil has a corkscrew like effect. This should pump current pretty good, right after the initial power cycle half?
 Keep in mind momentum and how a coil resists changes to current flow. How does it resist.. It converts it into voltage right? The momentum carries it through the second half and you can get a bit more out of it because it is rotating and helping itself when the commutator flips in your case.

on your photo, if you have the coil and a magnet in side, and the magnet is smaller, the north and south pole will pass the coil at diffrent places at the same time, and the induced current will be 2x as much... ( in the same direction as the applyed voltage and current IF you connect the circuit that way)  if this answers your question.

~Russ

Quote from sonnet on January 30th, 2018, 01:35 PM

When you have a high reactance in your coil you are shorting the coil, the voltage can jump across from the start coil wire to the end coil wire,the coil reacts as if its a capacitor in a A/C circuit because of the resonance in the circuit...
remember a capacitor has no resistance and we have made the coil perform as if its a capacitor.
we covered this way way back..

Did the experiment with the Jack Noskills coil.  This is a bifilar wound coil.  Connect it like a regular coil at each end, only use opposite windings and insulate the free end.  This gives you a coil having infinite DC resistance.  At low frequency you actually have a low value capacitor, but once the frequency comes up something wild happens--you get an inductor, but yet it's still a capacitor at the same time.  Now would this Coil/Cap be useful in the Newman motor...?  I can't say, but what it will demonstrate is how the electric field could care less about flowing through the conductors.  At actually flows in between the conductors.  This electric field produces its own magnetic field in a manner much different than a typical solenoid coil.  In essence the copper wire conductors become a wave guide and nothing more--dielectric reflectors as Eric Dollard has stated.

I mention that because we are discussion a current flow where the current is shut off before it reaches the end of the circuit using the wire length, speed of light and velocity factor of the conductors to create a condition where the coil no longer acts as a closed loop circuit.  My question then is:  Does the Newman coil actually behave very similar to the Jack Noskills coil?  Does the electric field take a short cut and get end-to-end much faster?  I tend to think it does and by doing so, the magnetic field it produces is also unlike a typical solenoid coil.

Quote from Tavote on January 30th, 2018, 12:45 AM

And you could answer me this question, maybe it will help you too to move on with your experiments in the right direction, the question is: Are you making a generator or a motor ?
I think you are making a generator (my observation only)

my goal is to understand the fundamental principles that Newman teaches. However not just to understand, but rather demonstrate them on my bench, then teach them to others.

 so am i making a motor or a generator? right now i'm focus on making a motor, why? because that's exactly what Newman was interested in.  once he did this he realized that you could also extract RF energy and back current from this motor. and if one wanted to you could turn this in to a generator.

again, my goals are short term. one step at a time. never passing a step that is not clear to me....

if you want some clarity, lesion to my conversation HERE very clearly.

it gives you an understanding where my head is... and where i'm headed...

a unit that powers a house... in due time... we ant ready, we only know parts of how to extract power on the bench, and we haven't even demonstrated this yet...  only clues that its possible.... know one takes an idea and turns is it to the best device ever with in a week. or even a month, most times YEARS it takes to prefect something...

I'm not interested in 1 watt in 10 watts out. I want 10 watts in 100000 watts out...  with that said ill be happy to start with 1 watt in 10 watts out...

to answer your question, i want both... and its both that will be useful. as then you have the choice you can have a prime mover, or an energy source, posibaly with the simple task of switching a set of instructions on the firing sequence...

~Russ