cool PJ,

yes please post the screen shot, would live to see them!

27mm is a small hole! But it can be done!

we must test everything :)

~Russ

I think i have a better idea :)

The second stage phi torus is based on phi^3 : 1 for outer diameter to inner diameter and a grid of 36 x 36.  12 circuits all looping through the torus once.
Phi^3 = 4.2358...
The 36 in the 36 x 36 grid is made from four 9 x 9 number grids therefore the 36 x 36 grid can also be considered as a 4 x 4 grid (where each magor grid is made up of a minor grid of 9 x 9).
In summary torus proportions are:
4.2385:1 for 4 x 4 grid.

Ok the third stage phi torus is based on phi^5 : 1 for outer diameter to inner diameter and a grid of 36 x 99. 3 circuits each looping through the centre 4 times.
Phi^5=11.089...
The 36 x 99 grid when broken down to 9 x 9 sub grids gives a 4 x 11 grid.
In summary torus proportions are
11.089:1 for 4 x 11 grid.

Do you see the pattern....? :P

Approx. 4:1 proportions for 4 x 4 grid and approximately 11:1 proportions for 4 x 11 grid!

Ok the first 4 in the 4 x 4 and 4 x 11 grids is always 4 so if we consider the second numbers I'm pretty sure that even second numbers result in many circuits (possibly always 12?) looping through the centre once and odd second numbers result in less circuits (possibly always 3?) looping through the centre 4 times.....

So my thought is this - why not move one grid up from the 4 x 4 grid to 4 x 5 which should have proportions approximately 5:1 and 3 circuits each looping through the centre 4 times??
Definitely buildable and following closely to the phi proportions.
What do you think?
PJ

Ok I have done some work on the 4x5 (36x45) torus design.
I have attatched screen captures, notes and a 3DS Max file.
I'm hopping some one in the group will have better skills, more time and the enthusiasm to take this further and model the formers :)
Cheers
PJ

Latest 3DP files in mm STEP214 format attached, as per Russ' request.

My master IronCAD file is version 12, so I tagged to the two exports the same.

Marko said the coil is ready. Should he have supplied a coil? I will have to assume the original design is validated now that we are adding hubcaps and spokes to the wheel with each needing their own separate validation.     

Anyone got anything new to share? Seems me time to work on this project is slim. Trying to get some more work and a video maid on what I did so far.

In the mean time. Here is a new C clip that Jim and I have created.

Will load the STL file Tomarrow. Basicaly it's a rotatable clip so the wires stay in place.

We have been testing the new 36 slot Phi toruis. It seems the small hole is to small. The wire dose not fit. To steep of an angle.

We may need to use the same hole size and make the outter bigger to match the Phi ratio.

More to do. 

Also to answer talisman question.

Markos "coil" would be directly the math. That's what the new Phi frame will be.

The 007 coil still stands as * needs to be verified.

And I'm still going forth with that.

~Russ

No good to fit wire.

Hi Russ
You show a 3D image of where the windings are too tight for the latest torus you are designing.
Could you post a 3D image of the completed new torus you want including windings, torus dimension, thickness you want for formers etc.
I'll assume you want 4mm wires.
I think I may br able to model something that will work for you

If you could save off some sort of 3D file - .stl, .obj, .fbx etc that would be helpfull

It would have been much easier to start with Marco´s coil, get proof of concept and then make modifications.

This is without a doubt a very hard project.
The efforts shown by people on this Web site is truly amazing - particularly your efforts Russ.
I for one hope you are able to keep going with this project.
Don't worry about posting a 3D file for me - i have looked at your photos and last 3D image and I can see each former has 36 wire spaces and that there are 11 formers so i should be able to model the path.
Ill assume you want 270mm outer diameter with phi : 1 proportions for the inner diameter.
Its 2:30am here - I've just fed our baby and im awake so I'll have a crack at a former that might work for you - it may not have the lightening holes and connection cutouts yet but ill send you a .stl so you can let me know if you think this may work.
PJ

Sorry that's phi^3:1 propotions right?

I get an inner diameter of 63.74mm
Let me know if this is incorrect

Ok I have created a 3D model that matches as far as I can tell Russ's latest design.
I think this will work.
I will attatch 2 screen captures, 2 .stl files and the .max file showing what I have done and where I am up to.
Further work needs to be done to create the lightening holes and connections etc.
Dimensions are 270mm outer diameter, 63.74mm inner diameter (to centre of wires), and 3mm thick formers.
Two wires have been allowed for as per the math - do you want the extra wire space?
Let me know if you want any other changes.
PJ

PJ, i haven't uploaded the new files due to them not working... we are still working on it. however i will upload them so you can try to lay a wire path...

but you can see it wont work.

Jim is currently working on the new 90mm inside former and ring.


current files that are in good working order but should not be used due to wire path constraints attached...

~Russ

PJ good idea using the wire path as the slot maker... so to do a 36x36 with the smaller hole the wire should go through the hole 2 times, a total of 4 coils doe " A,B" and then the gap space...

you currently only have a single turn in the hole. make sense? doing it like you are will be good to see if its possible to do a real 36x36 ( even tho we are using 11 former's... )

~Russ

Quote from Gunther Rattay on July 18th, 2016, 08:53 AM

It would have been much easier to start with Marco´s coil, get proof of concept and then make modifications.

Marko dose not " have a coil"  the 007 coil is just a modification of Danial's. however 007 uses only one turns. this is what Marko states is correct. and according to the math is is. but if we are going for the math then we need to scrap all past coils.. and use the math...

thats the direction im going...

making "Markos" coil...  we can call it a "VBM math defined coil " 

but like i say if we really did ti correct we need to scrap the 11 former version. but that leaves us with...

for a 36x36:

12 coil bundles
12 wires each = 144 wires, x 2 for each end = 288 wire ends!

what kind of madness is that.

so we use 11 former's so the twist moves over and the wire can continue.

any how thats technically wrong.... if we want to build a "VBM math defined coil " 

~Russ

also for all of those who have the old former's ( the ones Matt made, 007 stile) , here is the ring clip i said i would post, ( thank to Jim for drawing it)
again it goes on before you start winding, then just turn it as you go, will hold the wore in place ( not sure how well tho. )

~Russ

not much going on...i have to get the second winding finished properly yet.
whatever is causing the coil to ring, the beginning is timed with the IGBT on time. lots of things affect the 'ring', but it may be the coil itself setting the frequency initially....??  it is strange that the coil picks that pulse up so much stronger than the 1000v+ standing waves its being bathed in......at least i find that strange.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSj6UGQwjT0&feature=youtu.be

Quote from ~Russ on July 18th, 2016, 11:08 AM

current files that are in good working order but should not be used due to wire path constraints attached...

~Russ

I think I will use this file to see what you are trying to achieve in your latest design - i couldnt quite understand the text description you gave :P
I'm using my phone to view this site and downloding the .zip file returned an error so I will try log in from my laptop and download it from there

Quote from ~Russ on July 18th, 2016, 11:12 AM

PJ good idea using the wire path as the slot maker...
~Russ

Thanks
That is probably the best part of the model I made :)

Once I've looked at the file you posted I'll let you know if I can model something for you

I'm still thinking of trying a 36 x 45 phi torus - I might start a new thread for this to keep this thread more clear for your work

Keep up the good work!
PJ

thanks Pj, Jim has gotten it done and i think we are good to go. 

i will upload the new now.

Some photos of the new Phi tori.

This is hole of 90mm.
 Former is 145.575mm
total OD is 381.15mm when assembled... ( 15"!)

It's a monster. But man it will look cool.

This is a 36 slot . 11 formers.

Wire should go through the hole 2 times. The wire path is not the same as 007.

This will be more like the 36x36 number map.

Any how. Don't get confused. This is still not 100% with the math. Becuse of the 11 formers.

Attached is the orgnial former and ring Matt made.

The smaller unfinished coil is same OD as the 007 coil but PHI based. (this the one that the wires are too tight.

And the big one is PHI based but 90mm ID.
thanks to Jim for drawing it up. And we used PJs angles slot idea but just used an average angle.

We had to make the ring smaller to fit in the bed!  Haha

HUGE :)

I'm loving it.

Will post STL files shortly.

Quote from ~Russ on July 19th, 2016, 08:53 AM

thanks Pj, Jim has gotten it done and i think we are good to go. 

i will upload the new now.

Hi Russ
New file doesn't appear to have uploaded
PJ

Quote from PJ on July 19th, 2016, 11:44 AM

Hi Russ
New file doesn't appear to have uploaded
PJ

yeah i did not get to it yet :) hehe
will do it now...

ok still confirming the wire fit but should be good! 

printing in a HURRY! testing my new hotend... built from scratch :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP9Tq0UHwMg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0YovT2gBDQ