Hi Russ
Sorry to post here but not sure where to post to get some advice.
I am modelling the 36x45 Phi torus - it's going pretty well.
Size wise it is 270mm outer diameter to centre of wires.
Questions:
1/ how thick would you make the formers?
2/ how thick the ring?
3/ how much tolerance do you allow for joining the formers to the ring? Ie. if former is 4mm would you allow + .5mm - 4.5mm slot?
Thanks in advance
PJ

Hi PJ,

Thickness we’ve been doing 3.25mm for formers & 5mm for ring.

For tolerance .5mm is way too much - you only want maybe .05mm - or depending on accuracy of your printer you might need a bit more.

We’ve also been doing fillets on all edges so the prints come out more accurate off the bed & require less cleanup.

Thanks btw for your work in Max & idea for using wires to determine hole angles - I used one of your parts as a guide - was very helpful!

Hey thanks Russ :)
I finished the model last night and started printing today.  Ring and 2 formers done.
I'm posting lots of images so have a look at my thread if you want to see how I'm going.  Having lots of fun designing, printing and making - hopefully I get some positive test results :)

Russ
I have another question - I need to buy some more magnet wire.
I was thinking of using 24 stands of 24 awg (200 degrees °C rated) which gives a bundle of about 4mm thick.   Does that sound good to you?
The last lot I got from TEMCo in USA and I think it took a week or two to get to me in Australia - could you recommend a good supplier in Australia or who could deliver fairly quickly to Oz?
Last time I got a 1.5 pound spool of wire and this time I think I might need a larger one to make the coil.
Thanks in advance for your advice
PJ

attached is the final version of the Phi former and ring with all 36 slots, the inner most slots are quite thin, although my printer was able to handle it, yours might not.

this is for a tight twist coil. ( closer to a 36,36) I'm still working out the winding details. when i get it ill post it. for now here are the files.

HUGE thanks to Jim for working so hard to make theses. we went through through Manny reversions. Jim feel free to post the 3D visual photos. ill attach the files.

Here it is finished. Now to get the wire path finalized. thats the original former and ring that Matt made next to the new one... only slightly larger! :O

381.15mm outside to outside... quite large. the other one was 270mm

~Russ

Awesome :thumbsup2:

So these can be ordered as kits soon then?











:hide:
:-D

Hi Russ - here's the STEP file of Former & Ring 17.

Quote from PJ on July 22nd, 2016, 02:34 AM

Hey thanks Russ :)
I finished the model last night and started printing today.  Ring and 2 formers done.
I'm posting lots of images so have a look at my thread if you want to see how I'm going.  Having lots of fun designing, printing and making - hopefully I get some positive test results :)

that was Jim who responded :)

Quote from PJ on July 22nd, 2016, 03:49 PM

Russ
I have another question - I need to buy some more magnet wire.
I was thinking of using 24 stands of 24 awg (200 degrees °C rated) which gives a bundle of about 4mm thick.   Does that sound good to you?
The last lot I got from TEMCo in USA and I think it took a week or two to get to me in Australia - could you recommend a good supplier in Australia or who could deliver fairly quickly to Oz?
Last time I got a 1.5 pound spool of wire and this time I think I might need a larger one to make the coil.
Thanks in advance for your advice
PJ

sounds good, i did 24 strands of 23 AWG  and it was good. so sounds fine.

not sure of a suppler in AU... i guess google is your best fend... sorry i'm no help there.

~Russ

Oh thanks Jim and Russ :))
All formers printed now
Will get a glue gun tomorrow and glue the model
I managed to source some wire today - I'm getting AWG 24 - they may have had awg 23 but I didn't want to tic tac back and forward. 
Delivered in the next day or too and much cheaper than getting from overseas!!
Woop woop!
Will start wiring soon.
Will keep you posted
PJ

Nice work PJ

So I tried out the C rings for the 007 coil.

That was a joke. However it did make for a really good hold down.

As far as keeping everything in place while winding and trying to turn the C ring to match was a joke. The C rings are just to flexible. Could make them thicker yeah. But for now I just used them after the coil was done.

Little hot glue on one tab and then pull it over and a dab on the other side holds them in place. Could pop them off if nesicery.

 man thses things can be frustrating. Lol.

Some photos of the best coil yet. A true 007 replaca. This is with Matt's files. Not the new one.

Quote from ~Russ on July 27th, 2016, 12:54 AM

Some photos of the best coil yet. A true 007 replaca. This is with Matt's files. Not the new one.

Just out of curiosity, how close are the finished dimensions to what was scribbled down from 007's coil?

Quote from ~Russ on July 27th, 2016, 12:54 AM

So I tried out the C rings for the 007 coil.

That was a joke. However it did make for a really good hold down.

As far as keeping everything in place while winding and trying to turn the C ring to match was a joke. The C rings are just to flexible.

I'll stick with Velcro tape then.   :)

Oh BTW, that Fusion 360 software is really nice.  Looks like we could even share models in the cloud.

Quote from ~Russ on July 27th, 2016, 12:54 AM

man thses things can be frustrating.

These really are unbelievably tough but a great challenge with a bit more grit and determination hopefully they become something unbelievable!  Keep going Russ!

I've finished the framework on my 36 x 45 Phi torus - will post a picture tomorow
I've been spending hours and hours just removing the 3D print 'raft' from each former! Arrrrggghhh! I have to use rafts with my Makerbot Replicator Gen 5 as it is so tough to get level.
Anyway its done now and I'm pretty chuffed with the result - should look great when wound :)
Happy days
PJ

Quote from Matt Watts on July 27th, 2016, 02:08 AM

Just out of curiosity, how close are the finished dimensions to what was scribbled down from 007's coil?

exactly, we made it directly from what he gave, also it seems to be the same dimensions Daniels coil...

Quote from Matt Watts on July 27th, 2016, 02:08 AM

I'll stick with Velcro tape then.   :)

yeah or those zip ties i used worked well. however i think once you figure out how to wind it it will be fine and the C clips look CLEEN! once in place.

use the natural twist of the wire to help you keep the wire in pace. that can be tricky but once you understand what i mean its not to bad...

Quote from Matt Watts on July 27th, 2016, 02:08 AM

Oh BTW, that Fusion 360 software is really nice.  Looks like we could even share models in the cloud.

oh yeah Jim said one thing about that and for me that was the down side.. i'm not fond of the cloud. but yes for the rest of use :) good!

glad it looks pleasing, once you get it figured out you can help the rest of us :)

~Russ

Hello guys,

I made a coil and hooked it up. I thought I had duplicated an over-unity situation but I
found a mistake due to my scope probes. By hooking up two probes at once I had
created a short circuit through the grounds of the scope probes. I am putting this up in case
anybody else may have made a similar mistake. With only one probe connected I always measure
less power out than in. I do get a heafty voltage multiplication when it is tuned to resonance
but the current out to my LED bulb is always less than the current in from the power amp.
cheers
Richard


Rough schematic showing my dual scope probe error completely shorting out one side of the coil.


Here is an image of the coil I made. I used 21 AWG copper wire twelve strands and a 14 AWG single strand core for shorting.
The 12 strands connected in series gave me almost exactly 4 ohms. At resonance a 4 VRMS input gave me about
45 to 60 VRMS output voltage. Output voltage seems unlimited, but the current draw goes up quickly and I only have a 60 watt
PA amp. I was able to get several hundred volts out with a 0.2uF capacitor.

Quote from 1horn444 on August 2nd, 2016, 08:47 PM

I thought I had duplicated an over-unity situation but I found a mistake due to my scope probes. By hooking up two probes at once I had created a short circuit through the grounds of the scope probes. I am putting this up in case anybody else may have made a similar mistake.

I'm glad you mentioned this.  Russ is using a high quality isolated (differential inputs) power measurement scope.  If you attempt to hook-up most scopes the same way he does, it won't work.

Current probes are isolated since they are completely inductive, but be careful with the voltage probes with a scope having a common ground.  They make differential voltage probes, but in most cases they are as expensive as the entire scope.  If you can get your hands on one differential probe that will be good enough for the output.  Use the common ground probe on the input.

A poor-man's solution for current probes are these fellows.  It won't go all the way down to DC, but makes life much easier than using resistor shunts.

If you only have a two channel scope like me, you either need to switch back-n-forth between input & output or save your dollars and find another cheap two channel scope.

HTH,

M@

The way I discovered my error was the current measurements of the amp. On the signal lead of the scope I was at about 200 ma but on the ground lead it was about an amp. I swapped the leads coming from the amplifier but the readings stayed the same so I knew it was not something in the amplifier.

Then I found I had an un-intended connection through the scope ground to output capacitor.

I would like to try to duplicate the experiments Russ and others have done.
Can someone tell me exactly how the coils should be connected. I have tried a lot of things
but feel as if I am still not on track.

thanks
Richard

Quote from 1horn444 on August 3rd, 2016, 10:04 AM

The way I discovered my error was the current measurements of the amp. On the signal lead of the scope I was at about 200 ma but on the ground lead it was about an amp. I swapped the leads coming from the amplifier but the readings stayed the same so I knew it was not something in the amplifier.

Then I found I had an un-intended connection through the scope ground to output capacitor.

I would like to try to duplicate the experiments Russ and others have done.
Can someone tell me exactly how the coils should be connected. I have tried a lot of things
but feel as if I am still not on track.

thanks
Richard

hey Richard,

check the attachment on this post:

http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=2680.msg37547#msg37547

that's is how i was able to get the high voltage in the LC circuit.

let me know if thats what your looking for!

my response time is delayed lately! Sorry!

~Russ

also yeah good call Matt, my scope has all 4 isolated channels. so those who fallow my foot steps will need to be careful with there measurements.

~Russ

thanks Russ,

I got my coil working and measuring at your points I am definitely getting over unity with my setup.
So, I am wondering about how to get usable power out of the circuit. I wound up a little transformer and
I am trying to insert it in series or parallel with the capacitor but so far not much success.
If I get any progress, I will post info about it.

Quote from 1horn444 on August 5th, 2016, 06:40 PM

thanks Russ,

I got my coil working and measuring at your points I am definitely getting over unity with my setup.
So, I am wondering about how to get usable power out of the circuit. I wound up a little transformer and
I am trying to insert it in series or parallel with the capacitor but so far not much success.
If I get any progress, I will post info about it.

Regardless of frequencies, one way to harness basically any voltage is to rectify it using simple diodes and then store the (electric) energy in a capacitor bank, which you continuously can feed power loads of sort with.
Should you need AC power from the cap bank then it's a "simple" matter of adding an inverter and hey presto = you got something to replace the wall outlet with ;-)

Lynx you may be on to something, I have been playing with a full wave rectifier on the output. The high DC voltage is definitely there and is capable of charging capacitors. I dont have a capacitor bank or know what the circuit would look like to charge battery from a capacitor bank.

Quote from Vortex Joe on August 8th, 2016, 08:56 AM

Lynx you may be on to something, I have been playing with a full wave rectifier on the output. The high DC voltage is definitely there and is capable of charging capacitors. I dont have a capacitor bank or know what the circuit would look like to charge battery from a capacitor bank.

If the circuit's source voltage is DC, then by rectifying the output, such as in your case by using a full wave rectifier charging a fat capacitor, the step to, dare I say it, closing the loop :excited: , isn't too far fetched......or so it would seem anyway.

Basically, what it boils down to is this: If it works it works.

So............just close it already, see what gives.
If you're lucky you'll end up breaking a whole lot of the known laws of physics..........which is about time that happens ;-)

No one can change the laws of physics-and This is only one truth, the laws of physics are like analog compass they say only direction but nothing more

Hey Lynx, have you seen  skycollection on you tube? He uses a bifilar pancake coil to loop back and charge the supercaps that are driving the circuit. That's the ticket, the only problem is the output of the Rodin coil has such high voltage and the super caps are very low... 2.4 or so I believe. High frequency transformer? I have ordered a bank of em in series so I'll have 12v to play with. Also ordered a square wave generator that works @ 12v Hmmmmm there must be a way!

Nobody wants to break any rules.... Just bend them a little