The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert

Earl

Re: The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert
« Reply #351, on February 22nd, 2021, 01:48 PM »
Dan,

I just finished updating my analysis and testing document.  Follows same format as others.  But testing sections has more details on how I set the pots and why.  General description in front describe function but not levels.  I also include problems I ran into during testing.   I did not include all the changes we made but I do have that information in another document.  The board we ended up after all the changes we made is very close to Stan's figure 11.  I do note in document changes we made to figure 11 and why.   

I most likely put in too much information but these are things I wanted to know.  Most like with modern devices there is a better way to do most of the things on this board and like off the shelf items to do it. 

Earl

Re: The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert
« Reply #352, on February 22nd, 2021, 03:44 PM »
Did [K] and [11/12] pin swap on board and plugged it into Matrix board and tested Over Pressure and it turned off cell.  So card now is fully functional and tested including working on Matrix board.  Only thing I have not done is make a front panel though I did attached the Pressure Selection Switch to board and have tested it.  Just not mounted on panel.

Earl



Earl

Re: The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert
« Reply #355, on February 24th, 2021, 10:43 AM »
Dan,

Just to be complete I am going to build the Digital Means board and TPS interface board I got from you.  Is there a Gerber File for the Digital Means board.  I just want to verify a couple of the trace between SL7474913 and DM74193 as the pairs are hooked up different in schematic.

I have already started to look at circuit in more detail and I pretty sure what it doing as these two chips are doing.  As usually I will document what I find out.

Earl



Earl

Re: The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert
« Reply #358, on February 24th, 2021, 02:59 PM »Last edited on February 24th, 2021, 03:51 PM
Dan, 

I was having problems figuring out what A4 was doing.  I had thought it was 74LS122N it is NOT.  I notice pin number for 122N is 14 but A4 is shown with 16 pins.  So I looked at estate picture of card and found A4 is a SN74LS112  a J-K Flip-Flop.  I checked the Gerber file and chip has right number of pins but is mislabeled.  I also saw where it had been circle in one of the pictures above.

Other thing that was bothering me was pin 5 must be an output from A4 (112) but it is an input on 122N.  Have most of it figured out still working on A4 (112) and A6(122).  At this point more puzzled by A4.  The 122 data sheet actually does a good job explaining what is happing. 

I also see a few trace that need fixing.  Couple incomplete and a few errors.  I need to spend more time before I am ready to give you more input.

Earl


Earl

Re: The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert
« Reply #359, on February 25th, 2021, 12:55 PM »
Dan,

I have a question on traces from DM74150M to ribbon headers. 

The first picture shows the pin outs of the DM74150 which has input pins E7-E0  (8-1) on one side and E8- E5 (9-16)  on other.  I see the are reversed in direction do not have a problem with that.  What puzzles me is why the traces switches the sides on pins on the ends of connectors. I would of thought they would have been keep on the same side to avoid confusion.   If you look at connection Diagram Pin 8 is E0 and Pin 1 E7 first 8 inputs.

It will work that way but some where along the line input lines will need to be switched around or you will be reading the wrong input.  Computer chips do binary math and 0 is bit is the 1 in counting.   So where is accounted for

Both are wired the same. 

I have another question about the Addressing of A1 and A2 being totally different.  The gas pedal (A1) is the way I expected.  The Distributor is different and will address input pins in a totally different order.  The board matches schematic I checked.  Are the input from the distributor in a different order?    It is possible that the LED are hooked up in total different order that caused this but it sure makes it difficult to understand what is being checked.   Note:  The counter A5 is going to count in same order for both.  But pins read will be in different order.

Gas Pedal                                   Distributor
A3 pin      A1 pin                      A5 pin   A2 pin
3A              15A                         3B        15A             
2B               14B                         2C        14B
6C               13C                         6D        13C
7D               11D                        7A         11D

I guess what I am getting at for these to items as I can not tell if it is right or wrong without out more information that I do not have.  I would not have done things this way in either case.  If pins need to be switched around I would not have done it on this board to avoid errors.  It is easier to fix things in wiring.


Earl

Re: The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert
« Reply #360, on February 25th, 2021, 02:04 PM »
Dan,

I build a new table to show what order things are being read.  The Throttle mapping on the left is the order the LS74193 counts. It show binary counting 0-15 and pins are read E0-15.  I built the right side by swapping columns to match what the Distributor DM74LS150 will see based on wiring.  The count order from 74193 is still in the same as on left but with connections switched around the read order will be as shown.  As what is on the DCBA pins will determine pin value read.  Note: I used mapping form table above to tell me which columns to switch.

I is possible the layout of LEDs for distributor is the cause of this read order.   Not as random as I initially thought but did not know what it would look like until I built this table.

The over all processes is the same between 2 devices just reading pins in a different order.

Earl

Re: The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert
« Reply #361, on February 25th, 2021, 05:21 PM »Last edited on February 25th, 2021, 05:24 PM
I finished look at Gerber file and comparing it to Schematic.  It looks pretty good I have a questions above about why things were done but they may be that way for a reason.

I did find 3 things that look like label issues as traces are right.  The cap on LS112 is 58nF on schematic board has 8nF not sure which is correct value.   So of the problems I first saw where from an earlier version of Gerber file.

Already pointed out A4 is LS112

The capacitor is mislabeled as a resistor even is labeled C3 next to it.

securesupplies

Re: The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert
« Reply #362, on February 25th, 2021, 10:41 PM »Last edited on February 25th, 2021, 11:38 PM
ok Great Review Earl

I am  Reading and noted making cap chip note silk change

it is vital to note we are
 not using the K7 led card )pedal Sensor Stand originally made ( main as running long ribbon connector is silly now we have 3 wire tps pedal sensors. and blue tooth etc. now as it is way out dated and most mechanics would never compute the simplicity
or reasoning to use it or fault check it.  we try to make it some thing they can instantly recognize.

Note ( for the Benefit of Readers to Follow)

The K7 LED sensor for pedal position Stan Made (Digital Accelerator) using  light sensitive diodes.
 is being replaced here in this thread discussion with a more modern standard tps sensor and 3 wire  interface daughter board which will sit on top of Stans Original k11 pcb card (digital accelerator control pcb)
which adjusts pulse width as per video Ronnie did_ )

 The Industry Standard for engine throttle  control 2021 ,
has the K7 sensor by Stan replaced with Tps throttle position sensor
 on all car truck bikes planes with a 3 wire TPS sensor now

all mechanics understand that now and how to service it .
 When Stan built this the electronic throttle was not standard and not taught until 10 years latter.

The k11 pcb once receiving signal from pedal sensor controls gas rate of production via pulse width
and  is a exact replica from photos and photos and from  Peoples first hand access to k11 board Stan had in parts box and on buggy.

it is drawn as he drew it,  the  only change we have is  we decided to move the k8 analog voltage daughter board off
and place it on matrix main board for better understanding and make connection Childs play once error checked

a new daughter board handling Tps sensor  convert into k11  with Labels
 was made by me to replace k7 the led  sensor stan made
and replace with a  industry standard 2021 tps sensor.

so the new tps daughter board is the convertor for that so we keep stans k11 working.
 
it allows a in connect from tps sensor and a out to ecu, As a Easy PLug and play  ( use industry standard male and female plugs)  effectively linking whole GMS and gas on demand system to any modern engine or vehicle with plug and play.

Whilst we are merging it  and the various notes like Earl is pointing out well to us now,

there is expected to be  more labeling added  and adjustments and merging of Stan's data into the final assembly which we are doing  it has being extremely tiring to get to this point but now we can see and review in a final state.

I attach a picture for plugs into a typical vehicle

so we all welcome all  notes  you have made like cap noted chips notes and wiring trace notes,

 we are merging  all Stan's info best we can  into these items
every comment or new perception help us all see anything missed so it is running better
and shown or provided in such a it can be understood more instantly rebuilt faster by newbies or students.

Of course all can be replaced re done modernized etc etc  but we are trying to avoid that for now and maintain
close to original Working

so we lay the bread crumbs for people to see what. s is going on and bridging the
knowledge gap of years between the methods. Earl and Dan and others Helping with these interpretations

Which truly is the only hurdle for Mechanic replicators
and Hydrogen Hot Rodders studying Stans notes to build their own.


For Mechanics
think of this install like a wiring plug and play installation
of a Accelerator tps signal booster box ( except this make Fuel)

Dan


securesupplies

Re: The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert
« Reply #364, on February 28th, 2021, 01:00 PM »
 Found a Nice GMS Box  rather flashy  we can make a rack for mounting card fairly easily Earls Show his it is great

I was just looking for one that could be used  by people wanting something orderable.
the case is one thing and than you order rails and front panels and slides
they make a  skeleton rack version also so maybe start with that to check sizes and save cost abit
https://www.reichelt.de/systemgehaeuse-geh-sg-1-19-p50439.html?CCOUNTRY=445&LANGUAGE=de&&r=1

Dan

Earl

Re: The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert
« Reply #365, on March 1st, 2021, 04:54 PM »Last edited on March 1st, 2021, 05:28 PM
Dan

Was getting ready to install 1uF 50v caps ON VIC board and was checking which side was ground so I installed them correctly.  When I looked at Gerber I found we missed the + connection on middle one.  I don't know what it is used for as these do not show up on schematic.

Missing connection circled in red

I think I found it in second picture there was a hint of it in a few others but you can see trace going to right in picture below.







securesupplies

Re: The GMS Board Replication and DB37 in out connector Convert
« Reply #372, on March 4th, 2021, 06:25 AM »Last edited on March 4th, 2021, 06:36 AM
Seam to  be making good progress to decipher Stan's Rubix cube puzzle of wiring on Digital Accelerator

 I am Playing connect the Dots
 First Part here
k11 to k7

I am now working on  merging in the tps with hard traces after we test if this method of binary wiring solves it
so it is easy for everyone no more wiring like this puzzled solved

Lucky I had Wiring  done by Ronnie
or this would have been a far greater mental challenge
More Coming Soon

Dan

NOTE TPS should be Single Header pins only  at this stage

we will label pins and merge and hard wire tps into k11