adys15,

The numbers I gave you above are correct. I got them from mwswire.com. They are in inches but easy to convert to mm.

Everyone,

Today I began testing the VIC and WFC. Using Tony W's VIC driver circuit (globalkast.com), a 5 coil VIC with 1100-1200 Iu cores and a 3 inch coaxial cell with distilled water. Testing this circuit makes me realize there are several design issues that were part of the original design. The circuit in itself is a decent design, it's the VIC and Cell that create the issues. The capacitor it too large, and the chokes are too small...The circuit has a specific resonant frequency which is very difficult to find, and that frequency expands over a wide range due to the large size of the capacitor and the small chokes. I can see that this setup was never meant for mass production.

I got 6.5V max across the cell but never produced any gas....Tonight was just to get familiar with everything and make sure the circuit worked correctly...I will be connecting a function generator up soon to find the actual resonance....That should get me closer than just turning knobs:)

Quote from HMS-776 on June 2nd, 2012, 08:24 PM

adys15,

The numbers I gave you above are correct. I got them from mwswire.com. They are in inches but easy to convert to mm.

Everyone,

Today I began testing the VIC and WFC. Using Tony W's VIC driver circuit (globalkast.com), a 5 coil VIC with 1100-1200 Iu cores and a 3 inch coaxial cell with distilled water. Testing this circuit makes me realize there are several design issues that were part of the original design. The circuit in itself is a decent design, it's the VIC and Cell that create the issues. The capacitor it too large, and the chokes are too small...The circuit has a specific resonant frequency which is very difficult to find, and that frequency expands over a wide range due to the large size of the capacitor and the small chokes. I can see that this setup was never meant for mass production.

I got 6.5V max across the cell but never produced any gas....Tonight was just to get familiar with everything and make sure the circuit worked correctly...I will be connecting a function generator up soon to find the actual resonance....That should get me closer than just turning knobs:)

nice work!

with the same setup i was able to get 1000v wit no cell and about 10.5 v with the cell. also no gas...

just an update on my findings.

but i did make theses! :)

this is acetal delrin and man i think i like this plastic a lot!

i thought it was not as durable but its as strong or stronger than UHMS and much better to work with... but you get what you pay for also...

hey! look at that! a real replica... lol the first 13 bobbin cavity iv ever seen replicated... ;) lol yeah yeah there not done but mostly...

[attachment=1630]
[attachment=1631]
[attachment=1632]
[attachment=1633]
[attachment=1634]
[attachment=1635]
[attachment=1636]

lets see where this takes us... :)

there a lot Smaller that the ones in the drawings i had from don... ?? but it looks like they fit the cores he sent me... hummm... interesting...

blessings! ~Russ

ps. thanks to Chris and donations for the plastic!!!

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on June 3rd, 2012, 12:24 AM

Quote from HMS-776 on June 2nd, 2012, 08:24 PM

adys15,

The numbers I gave you above are correct. I got them from mwswire.com. They are in inches but easy to convert to mm.

Everyone,

Today I began testing the VIC and WFC. Using Tony W's VIC driver circuit (globalkast.com), a 5 coil VIC with 1100-1200 Iu cores and a 3 inch coaxial cell with distilled water. Testing this circuit makes me realize there are several design issues that were part of the original design. The circuit in itself is a decent design, it's the VIC and Cell that create the issues. The capacitor it too large, and the chokes are too small...The circuit has a specific resonant frequency which is very difficult to find, and that frequency expands over a wide range due to the large size of the capacitor and the small chokes. I can see that this setup was never meant for mass production.

I got 6.5V max across the cell but never produced any gas....Tonight was just to get familiar with everything and make sure the circuit worked correctly...I will be connecting a function generator up soon to find the actual resonance....That should get me closer than just turning knobs:)

nice work!

with the same setup i was able to get 1000v wit no cell and about 10.5 v with the cell. also no gas...

just an update on my findings.

but i did make theses! :)

this is acetal delrin and man i think i like this plastic a lot!

i thought it was not as durable but its as strong or stronger than UHMS and much better to work with... but you get what you pay for also...

hey! look at that! a real replica... lol the first 13 bobbin cavity iv ever seen replicated... ;) lol yeah yeah there not done but mostly...

They look good Russ, good job.:D







lets see where this takes us... :)

there a lot Smaller that the ones in the drawings i had from don... ?? but it looks like they fit the cores he sent me... hummm... interesting...

blessings! ~Russ

ps. thanks to Chris and donations for the plastic!!!

Nice job Russ!  They do look a lot shorter than Don's version.  Have ya got any ideas for cutting the .75 square hole yet?  


Nate

Quote from firepinto on June 3rd, 2012, 06:20 AM

Nice job Russ!  They do look a lot shorter than Don's version.  Have ya got any ideas for cutting the .75 square hole yet?  


Nate

i kinda posted this on the wrong thread... lets try this one:

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=119&pid=5652#pid5652

reply there

Ok, So I have done more testing with the 5 coil VIC, still have not been able to find resonance.

The driver circuit locks onto multiple frequencies which tends to be a problem.

I also connected a frequency generator and an oscope to the L1 choke and cell and an added resistor to look for resonance.
With a typical RLC circuit resonance is very easy to find as the voltage across R increases or decreases depending on how close to resonance you are. When you find the peak voltage across R your at resonance.

With the VIC circuit the voltage across R remained constant no matter what frequency I tested at...... I was testing at 500Hz intervals. In the next few tests I will try more frequencies and see if I can find resonance. As usual, the search for resonance continues!

____________________Update

Just running some numbers on my 5 coil VIC.

Primary resistance is 230 Ohms. Doing the math I get 52mA primary current for a total power of 626mW.
Primary to secondary step up ratio is about 1:16.4 so secondary voltage is about 196V and secondary max current is 3mA.
All secondary coils connected series aiding come to 4.5H of inductance.

Quote from HMS-776 on June 4th, 2012, 05:36 PM

Ok, So I have done more testing with the 5 coil VIC, still have not been able to find resonance.

The driver circuit locks onto multiple frequencies which tends to be a problem.

I also connected a frequency generator and an oscope to the L1 choke and cell and an added resistor to look for resonance.
With a typical RLC circuit resonance is very easy to find as the voltage across R increases or decreases depending on how close to resonance you are. When you find the peak voltage across R your at resonance.

With the VIC circuit the voltage across R remained constant no matter what frequency I tested at...... I was testing at 500Hz intervals. In the next few tests I will try more frequencies and see if I can find resonance. As usual, the search for resonance continues!

____________________Update

Just running some numbers on my 5 coil VIC.

Primary resistance is 230 Ohms. Doing the math I get 52mA primary current for a total power of 626mW.
Primary to secondary step up ratio is about 1:16.4 so secondary voltage is about 196V and secondary max current is 3mA.
All secondary coils connected series aiding come to 4.5H of inductance.

My experiments have shown that in a pancake bobbin coil there are many different voltage curve patterns and they change on the slightest changes in frequency or duty cycle. freq. change of 1 hz can make a major change in voltage patterns over the cell. adding an eec to the circuit makes another major change.

so my advise is to start the search without locking but take the production and the amount of negative voltage spikes over the cell into account for the search for optimization.

then - in a second step - when the optimum pattern is found this pattern must be implemented into lock in mechanism.

it´s a good idea to make photos of your patterns and note frequencies and duty cycles and to post it in the thread. as soon as others have set up their circuits they can do the same. one step into making results comparable.

Btw good job on the bandwidth filter discussion earlier in this thread!

Thanks for the kind remarks bussi04;)

After the first few tests I agree with you about how to go about testing the circuit. One problem I am having is that I never know what frequency I am at because of the pulse and gate frequencies riding together cause the freq counter on my USB oscope to read incorrectly. I will make more modifications soon, adding more test points so I know what my 2 frequencies are. I think this will help tremendously in finding the right freq range.

I will say one thing, I believe the cores we special ordered will work in this setup. It's tuning it that's the issue.

_________________
Update,

I looked at the VIC driver circuit trying to find points I could measure the driving frequency from. Probed them using an oscilloscope and the gating signal still shows up. I even pulled the signal directly off of the 4046 but the gating signal is input to it so no suprise there.....Still trying to find out where I can add a test point to measure actual driving frequency (not including gating).[attachment=1691]

If anyone has any ideas as to what I can do please let me know.

Quote from HMS-776 on June 5th, 2012, 04:16 PM

Thanks for the kind remarks bussi04;)

After the first few tests I agree with you about how to go about testing the circuit. One problem I am having is that I never know what frequency I am at because of the pulse and gate frequencies riding together cause the freq counter on my USB oscope to read incorrectly. I will make more modifications soon, adding more test points so I know what my 2 frequencies are. I think this will help tremendously in finding the right freq range.

I will say one thing, I believe the cores we special ordered will work in this setup. It's tuning it that's the issue.

_________________
Update,

I looked at the VIC driver circuit trying to find points I could measure the driving frequency from. Probed them using an oscilloscope and the gating signal still shows up. I even pulled the signal directly off of the 4046 but the gating signal is input to it so no suprise there.....Still trying to find out where I can add a test point to measure actual driving frequency (not including gating).

If anyone has any ideas as to what I can do please let me know.

yeah with gating on its hard...

you should be able to diss connect the incoming gating and connect it to a postie voltage and then measure where the blue arrow is for the outgoing frequency. ..

like this:

[attachment=1692]

i also agree that the cores will work just fine its just a tuning thing... :)

~Russ

Quote from HMS-776 on June 5th, 2012, 04:16 PM

Thanks for the kind remarks bussi04;)

After the first few tests I agree with you about how to go about testing the circuit. One problem I am having is that I never know what frequency I am at because of the pulse and gate frequencies riding together cause the freq counter on my USB oscope to read incorrectly. I will make more modifications soon, adding more test points so I know what my 2 frequencies are. I think this will help tremendously in finding the right freq range.

I will say one thing, I believe the cores we special ordered will work in this setup. It's tuning it that's the issue.

_________________
Update,

I looked at the VIC driver circuit trying to find points I could measure the driving frequency from. Probed them using an oscilloscope and the gating signal still shows up. I even pulled the signal directly off of the 4046 but the gating signal is input to it so no suprise there.....Still trying to find out where I can add a test point to measure actual driving frequency (not including gating).

If anyone has any ideas as to what I can do please let me know.

Try to measure frequency between pin 6 and 7 of 4046 over the oscillating capacitor. maybe the oscillation continues while pin 3 influences the oscillation output of 4046. of course this measurement will increase the capacitance and that way decrease oscillation frequency  but that should be acceptable for overall operation.

as an alternative you can set a scope trigger on the  "gate inactive" event and then you get the frequency on your scope.

I have made clarifications to the data I have posted in this thread. Please read the edited post here (#300):

http://open-source-energy.org?mode=threaded&tid=170&pid=5451#pid5451

Quote from bussi04 on June 6th, 2012, 01:55 AM

Quote from HMS-776 on June 5th, 2012, 04:16 PM

Thanks for the kind remarks bussi04;)

After the first few tests I agree with you about how to go about testing the circuit. One problem I am having is that I never know what frequency I am at because of the pulse and gate frequencies riding together cause the freq counter on my USB oscope to read incorrectly. I will make more modifications soon, adding more test points so I know what my 2 frequencies are. I think this will help tremendously in finding the right freq range.

I will say one thing, I believe the cores we special ordered will work in this setup. It's tuning it that's the issue.

_________________
Update,

I looked at the VIC driver circuit trying to find points I could measure the driving frequency from. Probed them using an oscilloscope and the gating signal still shows up. I even pulled the signal directly off of the 4046 but the gating signal is input to it so no suprise there.....Still trying to find out where I can add a test point to measure actual driving frequency (not including gating).

If anyone has any ideas as to what I can do please let me know.

Try to measure frequency between pin 6 and 7 of 4046 over the oscillating capacitor. maybe the oscillation continues while pin 3 influences the oscillation output of 4046. of course this measurement will increase the capacitance and that way decrease oscillation frequency  but that should be acceptable for overall operation.

as an alternative you can set a scope trigger on the  "gate inactive" event and then you get the frequency on your scope.

method to measure the frequency continuously:
in the same diagram, posted by Russ, short-circuit the collector "Q11" to ground (test point), this enables the "4046" without the gate.

just fyi screen captures from Russ's video, for those right clicking and saving  these pages to preserve them. An or consolidating data into rebuild manuals to teach others

PLease all dedicate some time to save all data on forums  make time
 to do the above , to share adavnces better and faster through other mediums.

Dan

Quote from securesupplies on June 12th, 2012, 01:25 PM

just fyi screen captures from Russ's video, for those right clicking and saving  these pages to preserve them. An or consolidating data into rebuild manuals to teach others

PLease all dedicate some time to save all data on forums  make time
 to do the above , to share adavnces better and faster through other mediums.

Dan

Good post dan, here is the video he captured the photos from! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5ySvSe5avM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thanks! ~Russ

Hy guys! I'v done some experiments today with the vic transformer made by me,(0.2mm)primary 400turns,secoundary 7000 turns,feedback 400turns,choke coils 1500/1500 and gues what the voltage was from 12v input>?130v,without the cell atached ,and with the cell 1V,the water is oposing too much,think about,to have let's say 1000 at the cell, you have to produce 100KV without the load.so I think Stanley's vic's are not HV at all,you cannot get 20KV from his specs,or if you do the water opeses and you get rufly 50V on the cell....corect me if I am wrong!

Quote from adys15 on June 22nd, 2012, 10:04 AM

Hy guys! I'v done some experiments today with the vic transformer made by me,(0.2mm)primary 400turns,secoundary 7000 turns,feedback 400turns,choke coils 1500/1500 and gues what the voltage was from 12v input>?130v,without the cell atached ,and with the cell 1V,the water is oposing too much,think about,to have let's say 1000 at the cell, you have to produce 100KV without the load.so I think Stanley's vic's are not HV at all,you cannot get 20KV from his specs,or if you do the water opeses and you get rufly 50V on the cell....corect me if I am wrong!

Hi Adys.
I was also disappointed with my VIC (made following the specs), but fantasy was expecting something different, because the turns ratio, should we now know that it would not be much. Another point, the resistance of the winding is very high, therefore if some current flowing useful, there will be a waste. The point is that we hope will not use and this is impossible, because without the power chokes do not work.
I have not given up making it work, so I use what makes sense.

Quote from Faisca on June 23rd, 2012, 08:27 AM

Quote from adys15 on June 22nd, 2012, 10:04 AM

Hy guys! I'v done some experiments today with the vic transformer made by me,(0.2mm)primary 400turns,secoundary 7000 turns,feedback 400turns,choke coils 1500/1500 and gues what the voltage was from 12v input>?130v,without the cell atached ,and with the cell 1V,the water is oposing too much,think about,to have let's say 1000 at the cell, you have to produce 100KV without the load.so I think Stanley's vic's are not HV at all,you cannot get 20KV from his specs,or if you do the water opeses and you get rufly 50V on the cell....corect me if I am wrong!

Hi Adys.
I was also disappointed with my VIC (made following the specs), but fantasy was expecting something different, because the turns ratio, should we now know that it would not be much. Another point, the resistance of the winding is very high, therefore if some current flowing useful, there will be a waste. The point is that we hope will not use and this is impossible, because without the power chokes do not work.
I have not given up making it work, so I use what makes sense.

yes you are right about the power,but power means you have to wind thicker wire,to resist,i made an experiment and wire the primary with 0.8mm 20 turns,and the output voltage goes to 230v from 130(with the thin wire on primary)but when i hook it to the cell it dies 0.00v,i told you guys you have ho have a thicker wire than 30awg ,30awg does not have the power to keep that voltage up,think about the chokes used on the demo unit by stan....18gauge on the bifiliar chokes,wy?because they have to have a little amperage stored in order to hit resonance,then the amps will go down,like Stan says,because of the pulsing operations the amps are slower than volts so when there is 1 pulse with a little amperage you cut it off till the amps show up...i dont think you understand,Tesla did the same with the pulsed dc...

Please see parametric resonance Hope it helps

I am on the same page with this VIC.

The turns ratio should give me approx 190V at the cell. But I get no more than 2V at the cell (even with no primary R) and 40V when the circuit is open.

I think there may be an issue with the way this coil was designed. FIrst off it uses two cores held together with plastic and screws. (in a car the vibration would change the coils characteristics). Then there is the fact that the coil layout does not give maximum coupling, some of the coils have an uneven coupling when they should not. (The coils should really be wound on top of each other (chokes bifilar) and on a single core to get maximum coupling).

I'm trying to understand the way this coils voltage regulation is supposed to work.
From Stan's explanations maximum voltage is achieved only when the impedance is matched. However I still think I should be getting more than 40V with the secondary coils open:(

I am going to be removing turns from the primary and feedback coils to increase the turns ratio up to get about 280V.

I am also going to try using a simplier design.

What do you gys think???

Has anyone had any luck with this coil yet?

Quote from HMS-776 on June 24th, 2012, 11:21 AM

I am on the same page with this VIC.

The turns ratio should give me approx 190V at the cell. But I get no more than 2V at the cell (even with no primary R) and 40V when the circuit is open.

I think there may be an issue with the way this coil was designed. FIrst off it uses two cores held together with plastic and screws. (in a car the vibration would change the coils characteristics). Then there is the fact that the coil layout does not give maximum coupling, some of the coils have an uneven coupling when they should not. (The coils should really be wound on top of each other (chokes bifilar) and on a single core to get maximum coupling).

I'm trying to understand the way this coils voltage regulation is supposed to work.
From Stan's explanations maximum voltage is achieved only when the impedance is matched. However I still think I should be getting more than 40V with the secondary coils open:(

I am going to be removing turns from the primary and feedback coils to increase the turns ratio up to get about 280V.

I am also going to try using a simplier design.

What do you gys think???

Has anyone had any luck with this coil yet?

Hi,

which voltage did you have over the secondary charging choke?
How much current was flowing to the wfc at the 2Volts?

Quote from HMS-776 on June 24th, 2012, 11:21 AM

I am on the same page with this VIC.

The turns ratio should give me approx 190V at the cell. But I get no more than 2V at the cell (even with no primary R) and 40V when the circuit is open.

I think there may be an issue with the way this coil was designed. FIrst off it uses two cores held together with plastic and screws. (in a car the vibration would change the coils characteristics). Then there is the fact that the coil layout does not give maximum coupling, some of the coils have an uneven coupling when they should not. (The coils should really be wound on top of each other (chokes bifilar) and on a single core to get maximum coupling).

I'm trying to understand the way this coils voltage regulation is supposed to work.
From Stan's explanations maximum voltage is achieved only when the impedance is matched. However I still think I should be getting more than 40V with the secondary coils open:(

I am going to be removing turns from the primary and feedback coils to increase the turns ratio up to get about 280V.

I am also going to try using a simplier design.

What do you gys think???

Has anyone had any luck with this coil yet?

can you give some specs?number of turns etc,190v at the chokes?without the cell atached?and about the chokes sec and primary on top of eachother yes i think so too,John Able hit resonance with this setup,Russ tell's in one of it;s videos that he cannot get hv with 5coil vic,but with the injector tipe transformer all in one bobin he can get hv.Now getting hv is one isue but the biggest isue is when you hook it to the cel you get 1,2,3v ...all its remain is to test different gauge wire...ps:you guys have an yahoo group?here is taking verry long to comunicate...is like sending letters to anothet country:D..keep on the good work ,Ady

Quote from HMS-776 on June 24th, 2012, 11:21 AM

I am on the same page with this VIC.

The turns ratio should give me approx 190V at the cell. But I get no more than 2V at the cell (even with no primary R) and 40V when the circuit is open.

I think there may be an issue with the way this coil was designed. FIrst off it uses two cores held together with plastic and screws. (in a car the vibration would change the coils characteristics). Then there is the fact that the coil layout does not give maximum coupling, some of the coils have an uneven coupling when they should not. (The coils should really be wound on top of each other (chokes bifilar) and on a single core to get maximum coupling).

I'm trying to understand the way this coils voltage regulation is supposed to work.
From Stan's explanations maximum voltage is achieved only when the impedance is matched. However I still think I should be getting more than 40V with the secondary coils open:(

I am going to be removing turns from the primary and feedback coils to increase the turns ratio up to get about 280V.

I am also going to try using a simplier design.

What do you gys think???

Has anyone had any luck with this coil yet?

can you give some specs?nr of windings wire gauge etc...you get 190v without the cell conected?You are right about the all in one bobins,i think the same,also Russ tells about that he cannot get hv with wfc vic.gut with the injector vic it does...lots of testing to do....keep the good work.Ady

Hello everyone,

If anyone is interested in buying my VIC bobbins with wire wound on them (close to Stan's specs) I am selling the first set. I have 3 sets so I am going to try different winding configurations on the other two. Rather than remove the wire from the bobbin I am offering it here for anyone looking for a VIC already wound. The VIC is very close to original specs and I am including an untrafast 600V diode. Please note I am not including a core as I plan on doing further testing.

I will sell the bobbins and end caps for $65 OBO including shipping to the US.

I have tried diferent thinghs today...i pulsed a flyback with 9xa circuit,i coud not measure the voltage,but arched prety good,i hooked up 2 chokes 29 awg 1000turns each,the ark was not so strong,but still arcs.then i hooked up to a 10cm long pipes,i tried all frequencies nothing,off corse wather resistsi thought the cap was to big....then i tooked 2 razor blades stiched them together verry close with a rubber in middle,i tried all freq and only one showed a little bubles formating around the negatige plate,and barely leting go,there must be over 2KV from that flyback,so barely nothing....the results are....if you aply hv across water capacitor it rezists and you end up with noting..so i am tired of these bolonies..with the water polarization and shet,water resists and thats all,and : VOLTAGE DO NOT PERFORM WORK,probably was a concept that meyers liked so much that he himself believed,but in real world nothing happens,Russ hook your vic coil to the water cap and tell me what you got?from 5kv- 5v i think...whatever tiret of that Meyer shet,sound very nice on paper but in real world nothing happens!!!

read about this link,HMS-776
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=603&page=2
somethings maybe help.

thanks
geenee

Quote from adys15 on July 6th, 2012, 03:19 PM

I have tried diferent thinghs today...i pulsed a flyback with 9xa circuit,i coud not measure the voltage,but arched prety good,i hooked up 2 chokes 29 awg 1000turns each,the ark was not so strong,but still arcs.then i hooked up to a 10cm long pipes,i tried all frequencies nothing,off corse wather resistsi thought the cap was to big....then i tooked 2 razor blades stiched them together verry close with a rubber in middle,i tried all freq and only one showed a little bubles formating around the negatige plate,and barely leting go,there must be over 2KV from that flyback,so barely nothing....the results are....if you aply hv across water capacitor it rezists and you end up with noting..so i am tired of these bolonies..with the water polarization and shet,water resists and thats all,and : VOLTAGE DO NOT PERFORM WORK,probably was a concept that meyers liked so much that he himself believed,but in real world nothing happens,Russ hook your vic coil to the water cap and tell me what you got?from 5kv- 5v i think...whatever tiret of that Meyer shet,sound very nice on paper but in real world nothing happens!!!

Guy's, I really think the answer is in the sparkplug  the other gasses, vic and gas gun, not the cell. My one cell is 14" long 3/4" and 1" diameter 316L SS tubing. I do get hho production out of it at 12 volts dc, 1/2 amp, with the 8XA, think what I could get if I up'ed the voltage, I just don't have the time right now to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dwonCXH5EI&list=UU5MWkMsbXeqTSQGihR0is1Q&index=8&feature=plcp
  Also you still only have one aspect of what Stan built, there are many other things to Stan's devise that need attention as well, don't give up there is still much work that needs to be done, Jeff.:D