Quote from firepinto on April 2nd, 2012, 02:42 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 06:29 AM

Quote from Webmug on April 2nd, 2012, 06:14 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 06:05 AM

Quote from firepinto on April 1st, 2012, 08:18 PM

I've thought some on that, would be cool to use a stepper to do the winding also.  Then turns can be calculated by steps in the arduino.  Could also use an optical wheel to calculate wire length.  Would have to go through the same calibration steps as a reprap.  Too bad I don't know much about arduino programming. lol

Nate

That would really be cool :cool: if someone could program that for us:D:P

Something like this would be awesome, but too expensive for me.

http://www.ukcnc.net/forums/showthread.php?105-Pictures-of-final-production-Coil-Winding-machine

http://www.ukcnc.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?4-CNC-Coil-Winder

Also a coil tensioner, wire guide is very handy.

Br,
Webmug

Yes to pricey, but that just gave me another idea. If someone has an old style fishing reel, they could use the gearbox off of it to feed the wire from the left to the right and back again, drive it from the stepper while it is turning the spool to be wound, or you could print gears with an automatic reversing lever to do the same thing.

I've seen that one working on Youtube.  Pretty awesome.  I think we could print one out with all the pieces parts to make it go.  If we build it ... they will come(programmers that is)..:P

I've had some of those fishing reels, they feed the line so that it crosses each layer a little bit so that the line doesn't get pulled down into the spool when a fish hits.  I think we are looking for a slight movement of the thickness of the wire per turn.  

Nate

Exactly so Nate, it would really be cool if we didn't have to move the wire back and forth with our fingers, all automatic. Iv'e got some Arduino Mega's coming, I have an Uno, Or to get a propeller, like in the video, but it would really be nice to stay with the Arduino's.:D:cool::P

Quote

Exactly so Nate, it would really be cool if we didn't have to move the wire back and forth with our fingers, all automatic. Iv'e got some Arduino Mega's coming, I have an Uno, Or to get a propeller, like in the video, but it would really be nice to stay with the Arduino's.:D:cool

I used a small plastic spacer which I clamped down in the mini lathe tool post for a wire guide....I can turn feed the wire by hand using the handcrank but it's impossible to get the thing to wind correctly (no spaces between turns). If I had a CNC I could do it, but it would still take some work to get it setup....

Quote from HMS-776 on April 2nd, 2012, 05:47 PM

Quote

Exactly so Nate, it would really be cool if we didn't have to move the wire back and forth with our fingers, all automatic. Iv'e got some Arduino Mega's coming, I have an Uno, Or to get a propeller, like in the video, but it would really be nice to stay with the Arduino's.:D:cool

I used a small plastic spacer which I clamped down in the mini lathe tool post for a wire guide....I can turn feed the wire by hand using the handcrank but it's impossible to get the thing to wind correctly (no spaces between turns). If I had a CNC I could do it, but it would still take some work to get it setup....

Ya, CNC would do it .:D But if we could use an $18.00 stepper motor, $15.00 driver and a $30.00 Arduino board programmed just for that function it would be worth it, because it would be very accurate and precise :cool::D:P .  

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 06:31 PM

Quote from HMS-776 on April 2nd, 2012, 05:47 PM

Quote

Exactly so Nate, it would really be cool if we didn't have to move the wire back and forth with our fingers, all automatic. Iv'e got some Arduino Mega's coming, I have an Uno, Or to get a propeller, like in the video, but it would really be nice to stay with the Arduino's.:D:cool

I used a small plastic spacer which I clamped down in the mini lathe tool post for a wire guide....I can turn feed the wire by hand using the handcrank but it's impossible to get the thing to wind correctly (no spaces between turns). If I had a CNC I could do it, but it would still take some work to get it setup....

Ya, CNC would do it .:D But if we could use an $18.00 stepper motor, $15.00 driver and a $30.00 Arduino board programmed just for that function it would be worth it, because it would be very accurate and precise :cool::D:P .

Winding my coils by hand and using a drill isn't accurate and precise!:s

Too bad this guy isn't finished or even got started building a automated coil winder.
http://reprap.org/wiki/CNC_winding

I'm thinking about using a RepRap Sanguinololu DIY-kit 1.3a as a controller.:cool:

Questions, how to build a inexpensive DIY automated coil winder:
- a coil wire tensioner and feeder;
- how can we clamp/fit the square bobbin to the Spindle C-Axis; brackets for the VIC bobbin?
- how to build a simple Z-axis linear motion rail;

Got any good ideas?

Br,
Webmug

Quote from Webmug on April 3rd, 2012, 07:07 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 06:31 PM

Quote from HMS-776 on April 2nd, 2012, 05:47 PM

Quote

Exactly so Nate, it would really be cool if we didn't have to move the wire back and forth with our fingers, all automatic. Iv'e got some Arduino Mega's coming, I have an Uno, Or to get a propeller, like in the video, but it would really be nice to stay with the Arduino's.:D:cool

I used a small plastic spacer which I clamped down in the mini lathe tool post for a wire guide....I can turn feed the wire by hand using the handcrank but it's impossible to get the thing to wind correctly (no spaces between turns). If I had a CNC I could do it, but it would still take some work to get it setup....

Ya, CNC would do it .:D But if we could use an $18.00 stepper motor, $15.00 driver and a $30.00 Arduino board programmed just for that function it would be worth it, because it would be very accurate and precise :cool::D:P .

Winding my coils by hand and using a drill isn't accurate and precise!:s

Too bad this guy isn't finished or even got started building a automated coil winder.
http://reprap.org/wiki/CNC_winding

I'm thinking about using a RepRap Sanguinololu DIY-kit 1.3a as a controller.:cool:

Questions, how to build a inexpensive DIY automated coil winder:
- a coil wire tensioner and feeder;
- how can we clamp/fit the square bobbin to the Spindle C-Axis; brackets for the VIC bobbin?
- how to build a simple Z-axis linear motion rail;

Got any good ideas?

Br,
Webmug

Haxar designed a bobbin hand winder that can be printed, maybe that could be adapted for a stepper motor.  I would design an opto to count revolutions, maybe use the scroll wheel out of a mouse to measure wire length.  The wire feeder stepper motor could be a smaller one, the winding stepper should probably be a nema17.  The wire feeder probably needs opto endstops to reverse at each end of the bobbin.  Just some ideas, I don't have much time to try and sketch something up for now.  

Nate

Ok, guys I give you all a clue how the VIC transformer operates, in my point of view.
I run it in a simulator, so it is still a simulation.:cool:

It is a PUMP, charging the CHOKES on a GATE duty cycle and frequency.
Major problem are the design parameters, what kind of cell is used (capacitance) and type of water (resistance).

We can have UNIPOLAR pulses with a resistance of 3kOhm for the 1100mH chokes
and using tap water (3kOhm/475nF/1100mH), theoretically speaking!

Top: charging choke with a diode in place.
Mid: charging choke without a diode in place.
Bottom: charging chokes with diode in place.

Br,
Webmug

Quote from firepinto on April 3rd, 2012, 08:55 AM

Quote from Webmug on April 3rd, 2012, 07:07 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 06:31 PM

Quote from HMS-776 on April 2nd, 2012, 05:47 PM

Quote

Exactly so Nate, it would really be cool if we didn't have to move the wire back and forth with our fingers, all automatic. Iv'e got some Arduino Mega's coming, I have an Uno, Or to get a propeller, like in the video, but it would really be nice to stay with the Arduino's.:D:cool

I used a small plastic spacer which I clamped down in the mini lathe tool post for a wire guide....I can turn feed the wire by hand using the handcrank but it's impossible to get the thing to wind correctly (no spaces between turns). If I had a CNC I could do it, but it would still take some work to get it setup....

Ya, CNC would do it .:D But if we could use an $18.00 stepper motor, $15.00 driver and a $30.00 Arduino board programmed just for that function it would be worth it, because it would be very accurate and precise :cool::D:P .

Winding my coils by hand and using a drill isn't accurate and precise!:s

Too bad this guy isn't finished or even got started building a automated coil winder.
http://reprap.org/wiki/CNC_winding

I'm thinking about using a RepRap Sanguinololu DIY-kit 1.3a as a controller.:cool:

Questions, how to build a inexpensive DIY automated coil winder:
- a coil wire tensioner and feeder;
- how can we clamp/fit the square bobbin to the Spindle C-Axis; brackets for the VIC bobbin?
- how to build a simple Z-axis linear motion rail;

Got any good ideas?

Br,
Webmug

Haxar designed a bobbin hand winder that can be printed, maybe that could be adapted for a stepper motor.  I would design an opto to count revolutions, maybe use the scroll wheel out of a mouse to measure wire length.  The wire feeder stepper motor could be a smaller one, the winding stepper should probably be a nema17.  The wire feeder probably needs opto endstops to reverse at each end of the bobbin.  Just some ideas, I don't have much time to try and sketch something up for now.  

Nate

Here is an encoder a lathe chuck and other parts on Thingiverse, all printable.
  http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:12747
Adjustable endstops
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16380
5-1 reducer
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8460
self centering 4 jaw chuck
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5791
3 jaw
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:12472
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:72
This should be enough to get it going:D:P

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 3rd, 2012, 01:30 PM

Quote from firepinto on April 3rd, 2012, 08:55 AM

Quote from Webmug on April 3rd, 2012, 07:07 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 06:31 PM

Quote from HMS-776 on April 2nd, 2012, 05:47 PM

I used a small plastic spacer which I clamped down in the mini lathe tool post for a wire guide....I can turn feed the wire by hand using the handcrank but it's impossible to get the thing to wind correctly (no spaces between turns). If I had a CNC I could do it, but it would still take some work to get it setup....

Ya, CNC would do it .:D But if we could use an $18.00 stepper motor, $15.00 driver and a $30.00 Arduino board programmed just for that function it would be worth it, because it would be very accurate and precise :cool::D:P .

Winding my coils by hand and using a drill isn't accurate and precise!:s

Too bad this guy isn't finished or even got started building a automated coil winder.
http://reprap.org/wiki/CNC_winding

I'm thinking about using a RepRap Sanguinololu DIY-kit 1.3a as a controller.:cool:

Questions, how to build a inexpensive DIY automated coil winder:
- a coil wire tensioner and feeder;
- how can we clamp/fit the square bobbin to the Spindle C-Axis; brackets for the VIC bobbin?
- how to build a simple Z-axis linear motion rail;

Got any good ideas?

Br,
Webmug

Haxar designed a bobbin hand winder that can be printed, maybe that could be adapted for a stepper motor.  I would design an opto to count revolutions, maybe use the scroll wheel out of a mouse to measure wire length.  The wire feeder stepper motor could be a smaller one, the winding stepper should probably be a nema17.  The wire feeder probably needs opto endstops to reverse at each end of the bobbin.  Just some ideas, I don't have much time to try and sketch something up for now.  

Nate

Here is an encoder a lathe chuck and other parts on Thingiverse, all printable.
  http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:12747
Adjustable endstops
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16380
5-1 reducer
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8460
self centering 4 jaw chuck
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5791
3 jaw
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:12472
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:72
This should be enough to get it going:D:P

Nice finds Jeff,
I like the planetary gears.  I may try making one of those. Though I think gear noise it's self is going to make me move to belts. lol  

I think the last link is just a cover for a lathe chuck.  

Quote from firepinto on April 3rd, 2012, 01:42 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 3rd, 2012, 01:30 PM

Quote from firepinto on April 3rd, 2012, 08:55 AM

Quote from Webmug on April 3rd, 2012, 07:07 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 06:31 PM

Ya, CNC would do it .:D But if we could use an $18.00 stepper motor, $15.00 driver and a $30.00 Arduino board programmed just for that function it would be worth it, because it would be very accurate and precise :cool::D:P .

Winding my coils by hand and using a drill isn't accurate and precise!:s

Too bad this guy isn't finished or even got started building a automated coil winder.
http://reprap.org/wiki/CNC_winding

I'm thinking about using a RepRap Sanguinololu DIY-kit 1.3a as a controller.:cool:

Questions, how to build a inexpensive DIY automated coil winder:
- a coil wire tensioner and feeder;
- how can we clamp/fit the square bobbin to the Spindle C-Axis; brackets for the VIC bobbin?
- how to build a simple Z-axis linear motion rail;

Got any good ideas?

Br,
Webmug

Haxar designed a bobbin hand winder that can be printed, maybe that could be adapted for a stepper motor.  I would design an opto to count revolutions, maybe use the scroll wheel out of a mouse to measure wire length.  The wire feeder stepper motor could be a smaller one, the winding stepper should probably be a nema17.  The wire feeder probably needs opto endstops to reverse at each end of the bobbin.  Just some ideas, I don't have much time to try and sketch something up for now.  

Nate

Here is an encoder a lathe chuck and other parts on Thingiverse, all printable.
  http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:12747
Adjustable endstops
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16380
5-1 reducer
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8460
self centering 4 jaw chuck
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5791
3 jaw
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:12472
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:72
This should be enough to get it going:D:P

Nice finds Jeff,
I like the planetary gears.  I may try making one of those. Though I think gear noise it's self is going to make me move to belts. lol  

I think the last link is just a cover for a lathe chuck.

Thanks Nate, your right, it is a cover, I did not look at it well enough.

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 08:55 AM

Russ have you seen this from Irondmaxx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6jOmtRt5tA&feature=digest_mon
He says the reason for the gap is to adjust the PM of the core, so if we buy 2000 PM we could adjust what is needed, if we buy 1000PM we won't . The guy is very irritating but he could be right, don't know, you make the choice and I will follow, just want to make an educated decision which I know you will, I trust your judgement, thanks Jeff.

Jeff,

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3794#pid3794

And some info from tony:

Quote

With my 2000 perm ferrite cores in place, the measurements are as followed:
Primary: 100mH (approx. 450 turns)
Feedback: 74.3mH (approx. 450 turns)
Secondary: 3.19H (3000 turns)
L1: 2.98H (approx. 2800-2900 turns)
L2: 2.53H (approx. 2600-2700 turns)

So as you can see from measurements with my cores, 2000 perm is way too high. By gaping the cores you introduce many problems. Here are the pro's and con's of a gaped core:

The advantages of an air gap can be summarized:
* Higher values of mmf can be tolerated before saturation takes place
* Reduced core losses (higher 'Q' factor).
* The flux is less sensitive to changes in current and temperature.
* Cores can be obtained in adjustable versions.

The disadvantages of the air gap are:
* More turns are required to obtain a given inductance.
* Increased losses in the windings (lower 'Q' factor).
* Increased leakage inductance.
* Increased radiated field.
* Increased susceptibility to external fields.

As you can see by having a gaped core it increases lower Q factors for the windings, increases leakage of inductance, and increases interference from external fields (unwanted noise). From calculations that I have done, it looks like the core should be somewhere between 800 - 1200 perm.

So. We don't know till we try. I don't think there is a gap. After talking to don. And also, no I did not watch that video. But I watched the one before it...

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just looking at all the data.
Thoughts?

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 3rd, 2012, 02:47 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 08:55 AM

Russ have you seen this from Irondmaxx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6jOmtRt5tA&feature=digest_mon
He says the reason for the gap is to adjust the PM of the core, so if we buy 2000 PM we could adjust what is needed, if we buy 1000PM we won't . The guy is very irritating but he could be right, don't know, you make the choice and I will follow, just want to make an educated decision which I know you will, I trust your judgement, thanks Jeff.

Jeff,

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3794#pid3794

And some info from tony:

Quote

With my 2000 perm ferrite cores in place, the measurements are as followed:
Primary: 100mH (approx. 450 turns)
Feedback: 74.3mH (approx. 450 turns)
Secondary: 3.19H (3000 turns)
L1: 2.98H (approx. 2800-2900 turns)
L2: 2.53H (approx. 2600-2700 turns)

So as you can see from measurements with my cores, 2000 perm is way too high. By gaping the cores you introduce many problems. Here are the pro's and con's of a gaped core:

The advantages of an air gap can be summarized:
* Higher values of mmf can be tolerated before saturation takes place
* Reduced core losses (higher 'Q' factor).
* The flux is less sensitive to changes in current and temperature.
* Cores can be obtained in adjustable versions.

The disadvantages of the air gap are:
* More turns are required to obtain a given inductance.
* Increased losses in the windings (lower 'Q' factor).
* Increased leakage inductance.
* Increased radiated field.
* Increased susceptibility to external fields.

As you can see by having a gaped core it increases lower Q factors for the windings, increases leakage of inductance, and increases interference from external fields (unwanted noise). From calculations that I have done, it looks like the core should be somewhere between 800 - 1200 perm.

So. We don't know till we try. I don't think there is a gap. After talking to don. And also, no I did not watch that video. But I watched the one before it...

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just looking at all the data.
Thoughts?

~Russ

Thanks Russ,:D I had seen the info you posted and knew you had talked with Don.  I do think you are right and didn't mean to throw a curve ball into the works. It's probably a good thing you did not watch the video, the guy is really annoying. In another video he put up on youtube, their's one other person with him, those two remind me of Bevus and, well I wont say it, enough said, sorry, Jeff.

Quote

Thanks Russ,:D I had seen the info you posted and knew you had talked with Don.  I do think you are right and didn't mean to throw a curve ball into the works. It's probably a good thing you did not watch the video, the guy is really annoying. In another video he put up on youtube, their's one other person with him, those two remind me of Bevus and, well I wont say it, enough said, sorry, Jeff.

Jeff. Im not an expert, everyone should do there own research and make te choice. Second guess me every day! It's a good thing and I'm never offended by it. Its good to be in a group that can freely descuss theses things and not be offended. That's Science!!! Sweet! Always post your thoughts and discusses it. That is what these forums are for! Open descussing!

This is not the place to descuss this... So I'll leave it at this. I tried to work with max, sadly he did not want much to do with me. So I continue doing what I have been for the last year or more. Pressing on with the work at hand. As I stated in this video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOu_dTjD3bY

I wish them the best! But I no longer are paying anttion to them at this time as it is a destraction. If some one finds somthing of value from his videos please do post it. But I have found it not to be of any help thus far. ( basicaly I haven't learned anything from his videos) nuff said.

God bless us all and let us make this hapen! Open sorce and free to share!

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 3rd, 2012, 02:47 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 08:55 AM

Russ have you seen this from Irondmaxx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6jOmtRt5tA&feature=digest_mon
He says the reason for the gap is to adjust the PM of the core, so if we buy 2000 PM we could adjust what is needed, if we buy 1000PM we won't . The guy is very irritating but he could be right, don't know, you make the choice and I will follow, just want to make an educated decision which I know you will, I trust your judgement, thanks Jeff.

Jeff,

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3794#pid3794

And some info from tony:

Quote

With my 2000 perm ferrite cores in place, the measurements are as followed:
Primary: 100mH (approx. 450 turns)
Feedback: 74.3mH (approx. 450 turns)
Secondary: 3.19H (3000 turns)
L1: 2.98H (approx. 2800-2900 turns)
L2: 2.53H (approx. 2600-2700 turns)

So as you can see from measurements with my cores, 2000 perm is way too high. By gaping the cores you introduce many problems. Here are the pro's and con's of a gaped core:

The advantages of an air gap can be summarized:
* Higher values of mmf can be tolerated before saturation takes place
* Reduced core losses (higher 'Q' factor).
* The flux is less sensitive to changes in current and temperature.
* Cores can be obtained in adjustable versions.

The disadvantages of the air gap are:
* More turns are required to obtain a given inductance.
* Increased losses in the windings (lower 'Q' factor).
* Increased leakage inductance.
* Increased radiated field.
* Increased susceptibility to external fields.

As you can see by having a gaped core it increases lower Q factors for the windings, increases leakage of inductance, and increases interference from external fields (unwanted noise). From calculations that I have done, it looks like the core should be somewhere between 800 - 1200 perm.

So. We don't know till we try. I don't think there is a gap. After talking to don. And also, no I did not watch that video. But I watched the one before it...

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just looking at all the data.
Thoughts?

~Russ

First off, this guy has NO CLUE what he's talking about. And second, he's trying to profit off of it.

When you introduce a gap in the VIC core your not just changing the inductance of the coils, you are introducing leakage inductance to the circuit and reducing the coupling between the coils. The leakage inductance is not desired in the VIC circuit as it causes pulse distortion and can also cause the coils to output AC.

The only reasons why a unipolar type coil would need a gapped core are if the coil has large changes in flux density or the core area is very large. In the case of the VIC, neither one of the above apply.

Now back to that video. Those 2000 permeability cores are not the right core and they WILL NOT WORK. You can get a large core of the same material and permeability (exact same core they are selling) that can be cut (and it will make 5 VIC's) for $15 from surplussales.com. Just keep in mind that it's not the right core and the only way you could make it work is if you completly re-designed the coil.

Tony is dead on about the core material and the gap, but he didn't mention the damping factor of the coil which is very important. It is also the reason why those 2000 permeability cores will not work, and why the high resistance SS wire is used on the injector VIC coil. The coils natural response to any pulsed voltage is to output AC. In order to cutoff the AC the coil must be critically damped. If the inductance or resistance is not in the correct proportions the coil once again output AC. If the leakage inductance is too high the coil will not work, if the capaciance is too high in relation to resistance the coil will output AC. There are many factors to be considered in coil design, unfortunately the guy(s) in those videos have no clue what they even are, but they are happy to sell you a core at a 3300% markup.

Quote from HMS-776 on April 3rd, 2012, 05:55 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 3rd, 2012, 02:47 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 08:55 AM

Russ have you seen this from Irondmaxx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6jOmtRt5tA&feature=digest_mon
He says the reason for the gap is to adjust the PM of the core, so if we buy 2000 PM we could adjust what is needed, if we buy 1000PM we won't . The guy is very irritating but he could be right, don't know, you make the choice and I will follow, just want to make an educated decision which I know you will, I trust your judgement, thanks Jeff.

Jeff,

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3794#pid3794

And some info from tony:

Quote

With my 2000 perm ferrite cores in place, the measurements are as followed:
Primary: 100mH (approx. 450 turns)
Feedback: 74.3mH (approx. 450 turns)
Secondary: 3.19H (3000 turns)
L1: 2.98H (approx. 2800-2900 turns)
L2: 2.53H (approx. 2600-2700 turns)

So as you can see from measurements with my cores, 2000 perm is way too high. By gaping the cores you introduce many problems. Here are the pro's and con's of a gaped core:

The advantages of an air gap can be summarized:
* Higher values of mmf can be tolerated before saturation takes place
* Reduced core losses (higher 'Q' factor).
* The flux is less sensitive to changes in current and temperature.
* Cores can be obtained in adjustable versions.

The disadvantages of the air gap are:
* More turns are required to obtain a given inductance.
* Increased losses in the windings (lower 'Q' factor).
* Increased leakage inductance.
* Increased radiated field.
* Increased susceptibility to external fields.

As you can see by having a gaped core it increases lower Q factors for the windings, increases leakage of inductance, and increases interference from external fields (unwanted noise). From calculations that I have done, it looks like the core should be somewhere between 800 - 1200 perm.

So. We don't know till we try. I don't think there is a gap. After talking to don. And also, no I did not watch that video. But I watched the one before it...

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just looking at all the data.
Thoughts?

~Russ

First off, this guy has NO CLUE what he's talking about. And second, he's trying to profit off of it.

When you introduce a gap in the VIC core your not just changing the inductance of the coils, you are introducing leakage inductance to the circuit and reducing the coupling between the coils. The leakage inductance is not desired in the VIC circuit as it causes pulse distortion and can also cause the coils to output AC.

The only reasons why a unipolar type coil would need a gapped core are if the coil has large changes in flux density or the core area is very large. In the case of the VIC, neither one of the above apply.

Now back to that video. Those 2000 permeability cores are not the right core and they WILL NOT WORK. You can get a large core of the same material and permeability (exact same core they are selling) that can be cut (and it will make 5 VIC's) for $15 from surplussales.com. Just keep in mind that it's not the right core and the only way you could make it work is if you completly re-designed the coil.

Tony is dead on about the core material and the gap, but he didn't mention the damping factor of the coil which is very important. It is also the reason why those 2000 permeability cores will not work, and why the high resistance SS wire is used on the injector VIC coil. The coils natural response to any pulsed voltage is to output AC. In order to cutoff the AC the coil must be critically damped. If the inductance or resistance is not in the correct proportions the coil once again output AC. If the leakage inductance is too high the coil will not work, if the capaciance is too high in relation to resistance the coil will output AC. There are many factors to be considered in coil design, unfortunately the guy(s) in those videos have no clue what they even are, but they are happy to sell you a core at a 3300% markup.

Good reply,

Note to all: let's keep it to the facts and leave these guy(s) out... No worries! Let's keep doing what we are doing! All positive thoughts on the forms! You can post any negative or other thoughts on YouTube comments. No prob! But let's state facts and Leave else off the forms! We want a good reputation! I know the truth needs to be know also... But let's "play nice"

Thanks guys! Keep up te free thinking and open ideas! ~Russ

I agree Russ,

I feel bad about slamming them but it gets to me when I see people trying to make money off of Stan's stuff. Greed has hindered this tech for far too long.

____________________________________________________________________

So back to the project:

I have an update on the coils I'm winding.

The primary coil turned out to be 550 turns and 10.5 Ohms, very close to the numbers which were posted back on page 8. Calculations were very close also, the work continues.

Oh and those were great ideas on the step motor and the arudino. Those are things I have very little knowledge about, so thanks for sharing you guys!

Quote from HMS-776 on April 3rd, 2012, 06:53 PM

I agree Russ,

I feel bad about slamming them but it gets to me when I see people trying to make money off of Stan's stuff. Greed has hindered this tech for far too long.

____________________________________________________________________

So back to the project:

I have an update on the coils I'm winding.

The primary coil turned out to be 550 turns and 10.5 Ohms, very close to the numbers which were posted back on page 8. Calculations were very close also, the work continues.

Oh and those were great ideas on the step motor and the arudino. Those are things I have very little knowledge about, so thanks for sharing you guys!

Thanks Russ and HMS-776.

Quote from HMS-776 on April 3rd, 2012, 06:53 PM

I agree Russ,

I feel bad about slamming them but it gets to me when I see people trying to make money off of Stan's stuff. Greed has hindered this tech for far too long.

____________________________________________________________________

So back to the project:

I have an update on the coils I'm winding.

The primary coil turned out to be 550 turns and 10.5 Ohms, very close to the numbers which were posted back on page 8. Calculations were very close also, the work continues.

Oh and those were great ideas on the step motor and the arudino. Those are things I have very little knowledge about, so thanks for sharing you guys!

Looking good HMS! I'm right behind you :)

Did you use super glue for the printed bobbins? Did it not dissolve/melt?

Br,
Webmug

Quote from Webmug on April 4th, 2012, 07:52 AM

Quote from HMS-776 on April 3rd, 2012, 06:53 PM

I agree Russ,

I feel bad about slamming them but it gets to me when I see people trying to make money off of Stan's stuff. Greed has hindered this tech for far too long.

____________________________________________________________________

So back to the project:

I have an update on the coils I'm winding.

The primary coil turned out to be 550 turns and 10.5 Ohms, very close to the numbers which were posted back on page 8. Calculations were very close also, the work continues.

Oh and those were great ideas on the step motor and the arudino. Those are things I have very little knowledge about, so thanks for sharing you guys!

Looking good HMS! I'm right behind you :)

Did you use super glue for the printed bobbins? Did it not dissolve/melt?

Br,
Webmug

Superglue works well on abs and pla, don't know about delrin.

Webmug,

Yes I used superglue at the ends, only a few dabs as I thought it might melt the plastic but it didn't.
The superglue worked well:)

Quote from HMS-776 on April 4th, 2012, 10:44 AM

Webmug,

Yes I used superglue at the ends, only a few dabs as I thought it might melt the plastic but it didn't.
The superglue worked well:)

Thanks, Jeff, HMS.

Br,
Webmug

cores are ordered... yesterday. I will keep all posted on there progress.

supper glue works well yes.

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 3rd, 2012, 02:47 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 08:55 AM

Russ have you seen this from Irondmaxx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6jOmtRt5tA&feature=digest_mon
He says the reason for the gap is to adjust the PM of the core, so if we buy 2000 PM we could adjust what is needed, if we buy 1000PM we won't . The guy is very irritating but he could be right, don't know, you make the choice and I will follow, just want to make an educated decision which I know you will, I trust your judgement, thanks Jeff.

Jeff,

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3794#pid3794

And some info from tony:

Quote

With my 2000 perm ferrite cores in place, the measurements are as followed:
Primary: 100mH (approx. 450 turns)
Feedback: 74.3mH (approx. 450 turns)
Secondary: 3.19H (3000 turns)
L1: 2.98H (approx. 2800-2900 turns)
L2: 2.53H (approx. 2600-2700 turns)

So as you can see from measurements with my cores, 2000 perm is way too high. By gaping the cores you introduce many problems. Here are the pro's and con's of a gaped core:

The advantages of an air gap can be summarized:
* Higher values of mmf can be tolerated before saturation takes place
* Reduced core losses (higher 'Q' factor).
* The flux is less sensitive to changes in current and temperature.
* Cores can be obtained in adjustable versions.

The disadvantages of the air gap are:
* More turns are required to obtain a given inductance.
* Increased losses in the windings (lower 'Q' factor).
* Increased leakage inductance.
* Increased radiated field.
* Increased susceptibility to external fields.

As you can see by having a gaped core it increases lower Q factors for the windings, increases leakage of inductance, and increases interference from external fields (unwanted noise). From calculations that I have done, it looks like the core should be somewhere between 800 - 1200 perm.

So. We don't know till we try. I don't think there is a gap. After talking to don. And also, no I did not watch that video. But I watched the one before it...

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just looking at all the data.
Thoughts?

~Russ

Irondmax said the permeability and separation adjusts is true. You get tested and see how varying the inductance varying the separation, but separation also has a second function works as air gap and is responsible for storing the energy that is transferred to the choke coils, the vic works as a flyback transformer stores energy when it has a positive cycle of the frequency generator when the pulse is not present all the energy stored in the air gap is transferred to the choke coils.
If you add separation, lower the inductance of the coils without touching the number of turns of the coils.
Danielgpalacios

Quote from danielgpalacios on April 6th, 2012, 02:05 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 3rd, 2012, 02:47 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on April 2nd, 2012, 08:55 AM

Russ have you seen this from Irondmaxx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6jOmtRt5tA&feature=digest_mon
He says the reason for the gap is to adjust the PM of the core, so if we buy 2000 PM we could adjust what is needed, if we buy 1000PM we won't . The guy is very irritating but he could be right, don't know, you make the choice and I will follow, just want to make an educated decision which I know you will, I trust your judgement, thanks Jeff.

Jeff,

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3794#pid3794

And some info from tony:

Quote

With my 2000 perm ferrite cores in place, the measurements are as followed:
Primary: 100mH (approx. 450 turns)
Feedback: 74.3mH (approx. 450 turns)
Secondary: 3.19H (3000 turns)
L1: 2.98H (approx. 2800-2900 turns)
L2: 2.53H (approx. 2600-2700 turns)

So as you can see from measurements with my cores, 2000 perm is way too high. By gaping the cores you introduce many problems. Here are the pro's and con's of a gaped core:

The advantages of an air gap can be summarized:
* Higher values of mmf can be tolerated before saturation takes place
* Reduced core losses (higher 'Q' factor).
* The flux is less sensitive to changes in current and temperature.
* Cores can be obtained in adjustable versions.

The disadvantages of the air gap are:
* More turns are required to obtain a given inductance.
* Increased losses in the windings (lower 'Q' factor).
* Increased leakage inductance.
* Increased radiated field.
* Increased susceptibility to external fields.

As you can see by having a gaped core it increases lower Q factors for the windings, increases leakage of inductance, and increases interference from external fields (unwanted noise). From calculations that I have done, it looks like the core should be somewhere between 800 - 1200 perm.

So. We don't know till we try. I don't think there is a gap. After talking to don. And also, no I did not watch that video. But I watched the one before it...

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just looking at all the data.
Thoughts?

~Russ

Irondmax said the permeability and separation adjusts is true. You get tested and see how varying the inductance varying the separation, but separation also has a second function works as air gap and is responsible for storing the energy that is transferred to the choke coils, the vic works as a flyback transformer stores energy when it has a positive cycle of the frequency generator when the pulse is not present all the energy stored in the air gap is transferred to the choke coils.
If you add separation, lower the inductance of the coils without touching the number of turns of the coils.
Danielgpalacios

Ya Daniel, we'll just have to test all aspects of the core research, to really see what works and what doesn't, we will get there, we have to, here in Texas gasoline is almost  $4.00 a gallon, Jeff.

Quote

Irondmax said the permeability and separation adjusts is true. You get tested and see how varying the inductance varying the separation, but separation also has a second function works as air gap and is responsible for storing the energy that is transferred to the choke coils, the vic works as a flyback transformer stores energy when it has a positive cycle of the frequency generator when the pulse is not present all the energy stored in the air gap is transferred to the choke coils.
If you add separation, lower the inductance of the coils without touching the number of turns of the coils.
Danielgpalacios

Quote

Ya Daniel, we'll just have to test all aspects of the core research, to really see what works and what doesn't, we will get there, we have to, here in Texas gasoline is almost  $4.00 a gallon, Jeff.

all theory's need to be tested!

$4.09 / GAL here... egh!

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 6th, 2012, 11:08 PM

Quote

Irondmax said the permeability and separation adjusts is true. You get tested and see how varying the inductance varying the separation, but separation also has a second function works as air gap and is responsible for storing the energy that is transferred to the choke coils, the vic works as a flyback transformer stores energy when it has a positive cycle of the frequency generator when the pulse is not present all the energy stored in the air gap is transferred to the choke coils.
If you add separation, lower the inductance of the coils without touching the number of turns of the coils.
Danielgpalacios

Quote

Ya Daniel, we'll just have to test all aspects of the core research, to really see what works and what doesn't, we will get there, we have to, here in Texas gasoline is almost  $4.00 a gallon, Jeff.

all theory's need to be tested!

$4.09 / GAL here... egh!

Don't know what you guys are complaining about, ... a liter costs 1,80 euros here, that would be $8.85 a gallon .... how about that?