Quote from waqas148 on January 12th, 2012, 12:12 AM

Quote from Sharky on January 11th, 2012, 11:08 PM

Quote from waqas148 on January 11th, 2012, 11:35 AM

Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on January 9th, 2012, 01:09 PM

Waqas148 is there a PCB Board for your shematic in the works? , Russ Wants one as well... I'd be willing to make put it together on Express PCB. I also don't completely understand the circuit yet.

Waqas148 I highly recommend ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for drawing schematics and PCB's. These were Russ's recomendations, and after downloading just about every program, this was my top pick as well and especially for userability.
---How too make custom parts. Select Part, Go to Component/Ungroup Component  turn them into whatever you want, then Regroup.. and presto.     and Its totally free, so easy to share and edit with one another

Hi kevin!!
i currently dont have any PCB of the schematic... as i built it on the Bread Board to test it.... but i would try to make a PCB of it asap but i think it would take time coz i as i said before that i am currently working on a PIC micro based circuit and nowadays i am working on its PCB ( i use Proteus for PCB)
and lastly
thanx for the advice ... i will look at the ExpressPCB software...  ;)

Kevin, Russ,
ExpressPCB is usefull for simple pcb design but lacks a lot of important functions like simulation, autorouter, gerber files.I think there is a need to decide on which software to use. I think there are two good alternatives (both open source software):
- gEDA suite (linux-mac, partial windows binaries available)
- KiCAD (all platforms)

Any ideas on this?

hi !!!
i use proteus, which has simulation autoplacer, autorouter , gerber output , pdf output and many more... but its a little expensive to buy... else someone downloads the portable version :P

I've downloaded a bunch of cracked versions of these fancier programs. Alot of them are overwelming and take some serious time to learn.

what is autorouter, gerber files? Is Auto Placer for laying out PCB? Russ Explained to me not to trust the auto placer, and to do PCB by hand. So I have.

Keep in mind alot of us may only need a program to draw a schematic and PCB layout. I personally don't have time to learn these fancy programs. But If your a hardcore electronics guru then to each there own.

The downfall to ExpressPCB is it is only for windows.  So maybe gEDA suite or KiCAD could be an option . So Far I am really happy with Express PCB with how easy it was to start using right away and to create parts (A downfall was not being able to cut from one window and paste into another)


Maybe we should start a new form for this discussion?

I know reprap has an option to draw out PCB's for etching with a sharpie.  I think it uses gerber files.  I think there was a way to convert expresspcb, but took like 4 differtent programs and was complicated.

Nate

Kevin-W

I use ExpressSCH alot. You can copy a section (it's easyer if you make it a group) to the clipboard then open the other file you want to add the section to and it will still be in the clipboard so you can paste it. I didn't say it was convienent.

I also like their mini-prototype board. 3 boards double sided with plated through holes for $51.00 even if I need to split up the design into many boards. And delived in 3 days by FEDx. I also made 4 layer boards that came out real nice, 3 boards about $100.00

But I do use Windows.

Haxar,
I switched to KICAD and started to work out your schematic. After testing i made some small changes to some component values, also your cell driver 220 ohm/1 watt resister needs to be in series with the coil instead of parralel, otherwise the current will not be reduced and the coil still gets very hot. With the 220 ohm resister in series the  current will be reduced to about 50 miliamps. See my new thread to work out the compete VIC.
Regards,
Sharky

Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 06:10 AM

Haxar,
I switched to KICAD and started to work out your schematic. After testing i made some small changes to some component values, also your cell driver 220 ohm/1 watt resister needs to be in series with the coil instead of parralel, otherwise the current will not be reduced and the coil still gets very hot. With the 220 ohm resister in series the  current will be reduced to about 50 miliamps. See my new thread to work out the compete VIC.
Regards,
Sharky

The 220 ohm resistor for the primary coil is referenced here on ionizationx:

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1305.msg19079.html#msg19079

Quote

As for the 220 ohm resister,they were wired across the primary to restrict the current feeding it.10.5 ohms will make the coil heat up with 12 volts feeding it.Some of the coil pacts had three resistors across the primary,all of them were 220 ohm.The largest one was a 5 watt.
Don

The 220 ohm resistors were like I said wired across the primary coil(parallel).A friend had talked with a coil manufacture,and they told him that 10.5 ohms coil would get hot,then he asked them what would happen if you were to wire a 220 ohm resistor across it,and he stated that it would run cooler.Not my words.

[attachment=712] [attachment=714] Does anyone know if this pattern is correct? I made mine under this scheme does not work.

Quote from milan on January 18th, 2012, 12:41 PM

Does anyone know if this pattern is correct? I made mine under this scheme does not work.

R42 is a 1K to start with

Quote from haxar on January 18th, 2012, 11:25 AM

Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 06:10 AM

Haxar,
I switched to KICAD and started to work out your schematic. After testing i made some small changes to some component values, also your cell driver 220 ohm/1 watt resister needs to be in series with the coil instead of parralel, otherwise the current will not be reduced and the coil still gets very hot. With the 220 ohm resister in series the  current will be reduced to about 50 miliamps. See my new thread to work out the compete VIC.
Regards,
Sharky

The 220 ohm resistor for the primary coil is referenced here on ionizationx:

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1305.msg19079.html#msg19079

Quote

As for the 220 ohm resister,they were wired across the primary to restrict the current feeding it.10.5 ohms will make the coil heat up with 12 volts feeding it.Some of the coil pacts had three resistors across the primary,all of them were 220 ohm.The largest one was a 5 watt.
Don

The 220 ohm resistors were like I said wired across the primary coil(parallel).A friend had talked with a coil manufacture,and they told him that 10.5 ohms coil would get hot,then he asked them what would happen if you were to wire a 220 ohm resistor across it,and he stated that it would run cooler.Not my words.

Hi Haxar,
I know, i read that thread as well but just that somebody says so does not make it true, .... i am still pretty sure it needs to be in series and not parallel. Actually it just is Ohms law, allthough there is some voltage over the transistor we can roughly calculate the current through the primairy coil as -> U = I x R -> I = U / R = 12 / 10.5 = 1.14 Amps through the coil. So not so strange it gets hot. If you put a resistor of 220 ohms in parallel with the 10.5 ohm you get a new total replacement resistance of  9.5652 (Rtot = 1 / (1/R1 + 1/R2))which is less than the original. Since current always takes the road of less resistance it will still pass through the coil and not through the resistor of 220 ohm. If you put it in series with the coil the new resistance is 230.5 ohms which result in 12/230.5 = 0.052 amps which passes through both resistor and coil. Since P=U x I = 12 x 0.052 you need a resistor that can handle minimum 0.52 watts, ... thus the 1 watt 220 ohm resistor.

Just test it and you will see the result, ... not to long though because you will burn the TIP120 if you do ;).

Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 02:22 PM

Hi Haxar,
I know, i read that thread as well but just that somebody says so does not make it true, ....

Dynodon is the original source for this VIC research to be possible.

Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 02:22 PM

i am still pretty sure it needs to be in series and not parallel. Actually it just is Ohms law, allthough there is some voltage over the transistor we can roughly calculate the current through the primairy coil as -> U = I x R -> I = U / R = 12 / 10.5 = 1.14 Amps through the coil. So not so strange it gets hot. If you put a resistor of 220 ohms in parallel with the 10.5 ohm you get a new total replacement resistance of  9.5652 (Rtot = 1 / (1/R1 + 1/R2))which is less than the original. Since current always takes the road of less resistance it will still pass through the coil and not through the resistor of 220 ohm. If you put it in series with the coil the new resistance is 230.5 ohms which result in 12/230.5 = 0.052 amps which passes through both resistor and coil. Since P=U x I = 12 x 0.052 you need a resistor that can handle minimum 0.52 watts, ... thus the 1 watt 220 ohm resistor.

Just test it and you will see the result, ... not to long though because you will burn the TIP120 if you do ;).

From Stan's estate photos, my impression is that there are multiple 220 ohm resistors combined in parallel effectively lowering the resistance from 220 ohms to the primary coil wired in series.

Quote from haxar on January 18th, 2012, 08:42 PM

Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 02:22 PM

Hi Haxar,
I know, i read that thread as well but just that somebody says so does not make it true, ....

Dynodon is the original source for this VIC research to be possible.

Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 02:22 PM

i am still pretty sure it needs to be in series and not parallel. Actually it just is Ohms law, allthough there is some voltage over the transistor we can roughly calculate the current through the primairy coil as -> U = I x R -> I = U / R = 12 / 10.5 = 1.14 Amps through the coil. So not so strange it gets hot. If you put a resistor of 220 ohms in parallel with the 10.5 ohm you get a new total replacement resistance of  9.5652 (Rtot = 1 / (1/R1 + 1/R2))which is less than the original. Since current always takes the road of less resistance it will still pass through the coil and not through the resistor of 220 ohm. If you put it in series with the coil the new resistance is 230.5 ohms which result in 12/230.5 = 0.052 amps which passes through both resistor and coil. Since P=U x I = 12 x 0.052 you need a resistor that can handle minimum 0.52 watts, ... thus the 1 watt 220 ohm resistor.

Just test it and you will see the result, ... not to long though because you will burn the TIP120 if you do ;).

From Stan's estate photos, my impression is that there are multiple 220 ohm resistors combined in parallel effectively lowering the resistance from 220 ohms to the primary coil wired in series.

ummmmmm.... just some thoughts but is not the coils pulsed? thus the calculation is not correct unless you add the duty cycle and frequency to the mix?  

from my experience the higher the frequency even if at the same duty cycle the less current draw...

just my thoughts...

i agree that the resister is in parallel with  primary. the reason is to "tune" the the VIC or make up for some lost space by cramming all that stuff in a small slot... so if one can tune with a resister insted of a bunch of copper wire... do it.

but like i said, just some thoughts. and also we will not know till we try... depending on the cell. we may all need something different... ???

~Russ

[attachment=724][attachment=723]

Does anyone know what the problem with this circuit ? I did my version and does not work.

Quote from milan on January 19th, 2012, 03:38 AM

Does anyone know what the problem with this circuit ? I did my version and does not work.

you have to trace the circuit: first check for no shortcuts in voltage supply, then check voltage points, then check pulse signal creation and propagation thru the circuit componentes. then you can find the problem and fix it. it´s a good idea to start debugging with a pcb not fully assembled with ICs and then add those ICs step by step. without understanding of functionality of those discrete components you can´t  debug.

In figure 9 the pickup coil is pictured with a center tap connected to +5V, in all other schematics it is draw as a normal straight forward coil. If i take a look at Tony Woodsides VIC card connections ( http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/VIC_Circuit_Connections.png ) he also uses just a two wire coil connection. Is simply one end connected to +5V and the other end connected to the two resistors in parallel to the opamp? In other words just an other way of drawing the coil connection or really a coil with a center tab?

Quote from Sharky on January 23rd, 2012, 09:26 AM

In figure 9 the pickup coil is pictured with a center tap connected to +5V, in all other schematics it is draw as a normal straight forward coil. If i take a look at Tony Woodsides VIC card connections (http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/VIC_Circuit_Connections.png) he also uses just a two wire coil connection. Is simply one end connected to +5V and the other end connected to the two resistors in parallel to the opamp? In other words just an other way of drawing the coil connection or really a coil with a center tab?

Link Doesn't work

Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on January 23rd, 2012, 10:53 AM

Quote from Sharky on January 23rd, 2012, 09:26 AM

In figure 9 the pickup coil is pictured with a center tap connected to +5V, in all other schematics it is draw as a normal straight forward coil. If i take a look at Tony Woodsides VIC card connections ( http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/VIC_Circuit_Connections.png ) he also uses just a two wire coil connection. Is simply one end connected to +5V and the other end connected to the two resistors in parallel to the opamp? In other words just an other way of drawing the coil connection or really a coil with a center tab?

Link Doesn't work

OK, fixed it in the original post

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 18th, 2012, 11:55 PM

Quote from haxar on January 18th, 2012, 08:42 PM

Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 02:22 PM

Hi Haxar,
I know, i read that thread as well but just that somebody says so does not make it true, ....

Dynodon is the original source for this VIC research to be possible.

Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 02:22 PM

i am still pretty sure it needs to be in series and not parallel. Actually it just is Ohms law, allthough there is some voltage over the transistor we can roughly calculate the current through the primairy coil as -> U = I x R -> I = U / R = 12 / 10.5 = 1.14 Amps through the coil. So not so strange it gets hot. If you put a resistor of 220 ohms in parallel with the 10.5 ohm you get a new total replacement resistance of  9.5652 (Rtot = 1 / (1/R1 + 1/R2))which is less than the original. Since current always takes the road of less resistance it will still pass through the coil and not through the resistor of 220 ohm. If you put it in series with the coil the new resistance is 230.5 ohms which result in 12/230.5 = 0.052 amps which passes through both resistor and coil. Since P=U x I = 12 x 0.052 you need a resistor that can handle minimum 0.52 watts, ... thus the 1 watt 220 ohm resistor.

Just test it and you will see the result, ... not to long though because you will burn the TIP120 if you do ;).

From Stan's estate photos, my impression is that there are multiple 220 ohm resistors combined in parallel effectively lowering the resistance from 220 ohms to the primary coil wired in series.

ummmmmm.... just some thoughts but is not the coils pulsed? thus the calculation is not correct unless you add the duty cycle and frequency to the mix?  

from my experience the higher the frequency even if at the same duty cycle the less current draw...

just my thoughts...

i agree that the resister is in parallel with  primary. the reason is to "tune" the the VIC or make up for some lost space by cramming all that stuff in a small slot... so if one can tune with a resister insted of a bunch of copper wire... do it.

but like i said, just some thoughts. and also we will not know till we try... depending on the cell. we may all need something different... ???

~Russ

While searching for information on connecting the feedback coil i encountered the connection schema of the VIC card of Tony Woodside ( http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/VIC_Circuit_Connections.png ), ... seems that i am not the only one that thinks the resistor needs to be in series with the primary coil. I think that the pictures that seems to show various resistors in parallel with the primary may actually be several resistors in parallel but all together in series with the primary...? Anyway, ... when all is finished testing will show the results.

At this photo is clear Meyer connected the resistor parallel with the primary.  At the resistors leads are three wires(primary-rezistor-wire from card). And the parallel blocking diode is located on the pcb.

Quote from Sharky on January 23rd, 2012, 09:26 AM

In figure 9 the pickup coil is pictured with a center tap connected to +5V, in all other schematics it is draw as a normal straight forward coil. If i take a look at Tony Woodsides VIC card connections ( http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/VIC_Circuit_Connections.png ) he also uses just a two wire coil connection. Is simply one end connected to +5V and the other end connected to the two resistors in parallel to the opamp? In other words just an other way of drawing the coil connection or really a coil with a center tab?

what you need to know is this is a systems engineering platform. so in stans schematics are just that. but, when don checked the VIC he took apart. it was only connected to the center tap and the other wire was not connected to anything...

stan changed stuff as he needed to... thus we just need to test every variation till we get the result we need. ???

thanks, ~Russ

Quote from Sharky on January 23rd, 2012, 03:08 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 18th, 2012, 11:55 PM

Quote from haxar on January 18th, 2012, 08:42 PM

Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 02:22 PM

Hi Haxar,
I know, i read that thread as well but just that somebody says so does not make it true, ....

Dynodon is the original source for this VIC research to be possible.

Quote from Sharky on January 18th, 2012, 02:22 PM

i am still pretty sure it needs to be in series and not parallel. Actually it just is Ohms law, allthough there is some voltage over the transistor we can roughly calculate the current through the primairy coil as -> U = I x R -> I = U / R = 12 / 10.5 = 1.14 Amps through the coil. So not so strange it gets hot. If you put a resistor of 220 ohms in parallel with the 10.5 ohm you get a new total replacement resistance of  9.5652 (Rtot = 1 / (1/R1 + 1/R2))which is less than the original. Since current always takes the road of less resistance it will still pass through the coil and not through the resistor of 220 ohm. If you put it in series with the coil the new resistance is 230.5 ohms which result in 12/230.5 = 0.052 amps which passes through both resistor and coil. Since P=U x I = 12 x 0.052 you need a resistor that can handle minimum 0.52 watts, ... thus the 1 watt 220 ohm resistor.

Just test it and you will see the result, ... not to long though because you will burn the TIP120 if you do ;).

From Stan's estate photos, my impression is that there are multiple 220 ohm resistors combined in parallel effectively lowering the resistance from 220 ohms to the primary coil wired in series.

ummmmmm.... just some thoughts but is not the coils pulsed? thus the calculation is not correct unless you add the duty cycle and frequency to the mix?  

from my experience the higher the frequency even if at the same duty cycle the less current draw...

just my thoughts...

i agree that the resister is in parallel with  primary. the reason is to "tune" the the VIC or make up for some lost space by cramming all that stuff in a small slot... so if one can tune with a resister insted of a bunch of copper wire... do it.

but like i said, just some thoughts. and also we will not know till we try... depending on the cell. we may all need something different... ???

~Russ

While searching for information on connecting the feedback coil i encountered the connection schema of the VIC card of Tony Woodside ( http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/VIC_Circuit_Connections.png ), ... seems that i am not the only one that thinks the resistor needs to be in series with the primary coil. I think that the pictures that seems to show various resistors in parallel with the primary may actually be several resistors in parallel but all together in series with the primary...? Anyway, ... when all is finished testing will show the results.

what you need to know is this is a systems engineering platform. so in stans schematics are just that. but, when don checked the VIC he took apart. it was only connected to the center tap and the other wire was not connected to anything...

stan changed stuff as he needed to... thus we just need to test every variation till we get the result we need. ???

tests will show the result! yes!

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 24th, 2012, 01:27 AM

what you need to know is this is a systems engineering platform. so in stans schematics are just that. but, when don checked the VIC he took apart. it was only connected to the center tap and the other wire was not connected to anything...

stan changed stuff as he needed to... thus we just need to test every variation till we get the result we need. ???

thanks, ~Russ

This sketch from the estate data should confirm one side of the feedback coil is only used for the circuit:

[attachment=761]

Quote from haxar on January 24th, 2012, 02:32 AM

This sketch from the estate data should confirm one side of the feedback coil is only used for the circuit:

Thank you haxar for that sketch! So it should be like in the attached image. While at it, .... is the opamp an 741 or 318? In your schematic it has both, to me a lm318 seems more obvious for its faster switching time (70V/uS against 0.5V/uS).

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 3rd, 2012, 01:35 AM

josh is working on the cores for the VIC's and we will have some to test thanks to Chris. he is working hard to get the things we need to make standards...

i know you don't know Chris or josh but you will soon.

Tonight, I just completed a test run of the VIC circuit with the transformer and cell and found the custom magnetite cores with their specific mixture with epoxy wasn't enough to hold any electromagnetic field, therefore revealing nothing being produced on the secondary side of the transformer.

I'll be trying better mixing ratios with the magnetite as it is trial and error and hopefully Josh's cores will come in.



Here's an update on the sketch to print and build the VIC transformer which now includes the core mold and an experimental coil hand winder. Changed the VIC bobbin to print in two separate pieces so that when printing them, bridging will not be an issue. See attachments.

[attachment=808]

Current replication progress:

• 30 AWG Heavy (double coat) Polyurethane-Nylon with a diameter of 0.011"
  
• Primary == ~611 turns @ 12.8 ohms
  
• Feedback == ~627 turns @ 15.8 ohms
  
• Secondary == ~2660 turns @ 72.1 ohms
  
• Choke 1 == ~2830 turns @ 77.5 ohms
  
• Choke 2 == ~2890 turns @ 78.5 ohms
  

~50 turns/ohm
1.3" == ~106 turns/layer
.4" == ~32 turns/layer

[attachment=810] [attachment=811] [attachment=812] [attachment=813][attachment=814] [attachment=815]

[attachment=819] [attachment=820] [attachment=821] [attachment=822] [attachment=823] [attachment=824]

[attachment=825] [attachment=826] [attachment=827] [attachment=828] [attachment=829] [attachment=830]

[attachment=831] [attachment=832] [attachment=833] [attachment=834] [attachment=835] [attachment=836]

[attachment=837] [attachment=838] [attachment=839] [attachment=840] [attachment=841]


The zipped attachment which includes the Sketchup and STL files can also be found here:

https://github.com/haxar/meyer-stanley/tree/329c62e61e8f32b1216dffc576d062a4fda5555a

Quote from haxar on February 3rd, 2012, 03:33 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 3rd, 2012, 01:35 AM

josh is working on the cores for the VIC's and we will have some to test thanks to Chris. he is working hard to get the things we need to make standards...

i know you don't know Chris or josh but you will soon.

Tonight, I just completed a test run of the VIC circuit with the transformer and cell and found the custom magnetite cores with their specific mixture with epoxy wasn't enough to hold any electromagnetic field, therefore revealing nothing being produced on the secondary side of the transformer.

I'll be trying better mixing ratios with the magnetite as it is trial and error and hopefully Josh's cores will come in.



Here's an update on the sketch to print and build the VIC transformer which now includes the core mold and an experimental coil hand winder. Changed the VIC bobbin to print in two separate pieces so that when printing them, bridging will not be an issue. See attachments.



Current replication progress:

• 30 AWG Heavy (double coat) Polyurethane-Nylon with a diameter of 0.011"
  
• Primary == ~611 turns @ 12.8 ohms
  
• Feedback == ~627 turns @ 15.8 ohms
  
• Secondary == ~2660 turns @ 72.1 ohms
  
• Choke 1 == ~2830 turns @ 77.5 ohms
  
• Choke 2 == ~2890 turns @ 78.5 ohms
  

~50 turns/ohm
1.3" == ~106 turns/layer
.4" == ~32 turns/layer

   

     

     

     

   


The zipped attachment which includes the Sketchup and STL files can also be found here:

https://github.com/haxar/meyer-stanley/tree/329c62e61e8f32b1216dffc576d062a4fda5555a

Nice work Haxar.:cool:  It's too bad the epoxy cores didn't work.  I like the coil winder idea!  

Nate

Nice work guys!

Wow awesome work being done here.