Step by step VIC build

firepinto


haxar

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #26, on November 16th, 2011, 06:17 PM »
As for the electronics in Stan's original voltage intensifier circuit, I've done a trace of its card here:



(click to enlarge or download the editable SVG image file zipped in the attachments)

I've drawn up the complete "functioning" schematic of the circuit as well:



(click for a printable PDF of the schematic)

The zipped schematic file in the attachments may only be compatible with gschem of the gEDA electronic toolkit, so compatibility varies.
RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #27, on November 16th, 2011, 07:45 PM »
Quote from h2opower on November 16th, 2011, 07:29 PM
I have a question, in looking at the circuit R47 220 can't be correct can it? For if a resistor is place across an inductor doesn't that bypass the inductor? As that looks like a resistor hooked up from positive straight to ground. Also R21 and R36 seem to be hooked up oddly. I am not all the great with circuits but I do know electronics okay.

h2opower
Yes, R47 is wired across the primary coil to restrict current heating up the coil. The resistor should reference this post by Dynodon on ionizationx:
Quote
As for the 220 ohm resister,they were wired across the primary to restrict the current feeding it.10.5 ohms will make the coil heat up with 12 volts feeding it.Some of the coil pacts had three resistors across the primary,all of them were 220 ohm.The largest one was a 5 watt.
Don

The 220 ohm resistors were like I said wired across the primary coil(parallel).A friend had talked with a coil manufacture,and they told him that 10.5 ohms coil would get hot,then he asked them what would happen if you were to wire a 220 ohm resistor across it,and he stated that it would run cooler.Not my words.
Source: http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1305.msg19079.html#msg19079

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #28, on November 16th, 2011, 10:19 PM »
[attachment=496][attachment=497][attachment=498]
Just finished printing a complete set. :)   I tried printing with 100% infill, didn't help any.  I used support rafting on the bobbins, but it didnt turn out very good.  The support didn't go perpendicular to the layer it needs to support.:dodgy:  The end caps also have a narrow spot that the printer didn't do well on.  It only printed 1 layer of the shell.  I have a feeling a smaller nozzle is needed so that the model can be sliced thinner. All that said these are still very usable.  Supports added lengthwise to the sketch would be better than the skeinforge supports.

Nate

haxar

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #29, on November 16th, 2011, 10:26 PM »
Thanks Nate. I just added the holes, extended the length of the end piece to 3.75" and the feet to 0.33". And yes, minor adjustments to the dimensions may need to be done for assembly.

The latest revision of the sketch is in the attachments including an image how it would look like assembled.

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #30, on November 16th, 2011, 10:50 PM »
Quote from haxar on November 16th, 2011, 10:26 PM
Thanks Nate. I just added the holes, extended the length of the end piece to 3.75" and the feet to 0.33". And yes, minor adjustments to the dimensions may need to be done for assembly.

The latest revision of the sketch is in the attachments including an image how it would look like assembled.
So far the dimensions for the areas that need to fit together are working perfect.  I have a few combinations I want to try tomorrow to try and improve results.  There was some warping from cooling differences.  
The new sketch looks awesome.:cool:  These RepRaps should be able to spit these out like hotcakes. :D  

Nate

~Russ

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #31, on November 16th, 2011, 11:32 PM »Last edited on November 16th, 2011, 11:36 PM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from haxar on November 16th, 2011, 06:17 PM
As for the electronics in Stan's original voltage intensifier circuit, I've done a trace of its card here:



(click to enlarge or download the editable SVG image file zipped in the attachments)

I've drawn up the complete "functioning" schematic of the circuit as well:



(click for a printable PDF of the schematic)

The zipped schematic file in the attachments may only be compatible with gschem of the gEDA electronic toolkit, so compatibility varies.
wow Haxar, nice work

A Note to all!

the VIC card is only once piece of the the Circuit!! the GMS unit runs the VIC CARDS!!!

Haxar! some fine work, now... can you do all the cards in the GMS unit??? this would be a big start! open source also! amazing!

let me know if your up for the challenge? we will start a new thread called " Stanly Meyers GMS Unit Reverse engineered" if you wan tot post this VIC card there!!!


Nate!!! ill Take 2 og the VIC bobbins!  lol looking nice! we can mill out the slot on the bottom! no worries!

to all! we are moving fast! lets get this out to the public as fast as possible!

God Bless!!! ~Russ

haxar

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #32, on November 17th, 2011, 01:06 AM »
Quote from Rwg42985 on November 16th, 2011, 11:32 PM
Haxar! some fine work, now... can you do all the cards in the GMS unit??? this would be a big start! open source also! amazing!

let me know if your up for the challenge? we will start a new thread called " Stanly Meyers GMS Unit Reverse engineered" if you wan tot post this VIC card there!!!
I don't think we need to do all of the cards as most of their schematics can be found in the international patent WO92/07861. The only cards of the GMS which should as least make the VIC circuit functional are the Variable Pulse Frequency (FREQ GEN.) and the Gated Pulse Frequency (WATER CELL) cards. The other cards on the GMS as controlling and regulating cards shouldn't be important to VIC functionality.

Here's a modified overview of the hydrogen fracturing technology chart by Alex Petty keeping the essential parts of the circuit (all of which is in the complete functional VIC schematic I posted):

[attachment=502]

http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/23/hydrogen-fracturing-technology-overview-chart/

~Russ

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #33, on November 17th, 2011, 01:46 AM »
Quote from haxar on November 17th, 2011, 01:06 AM
Quote from Rwg42985 on November 16th, 2011, 11:32 PM
Haxar! some fine work, now... can you do all the cards in the GMS unit??? this would be a big start! open source also! amazing!

let me know if your up for the challenge? we will start a new thread called " Stanly Meyers GMS Unit Reverse engineered" if you wan tot post this VIC card there!!!
I don't think we need to do all of the cards as most of their schematics can be found in the international patent WO92/07861. The only cards of the GMS which should as least make the VIC circuit functional are the Variable Pulse Frequency (FREQ GEN.) and the Gated Pulse Frequency (WATER CELL) cards. The other cards on the GMS as controlling and regulating cards shouldn't be important to VIC functionality.

Here's a modified overview of the hydrogen fracturing technology chart by Alex Petty keeping the essential parts of the circuit (all of which is in the complete functional VIC schematic I posted):



http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/23/hydrogen-fracturing-technology-overview-chart/
that works, i agree not all of them need to be maid,

also the patent drawings are not accurate as you can see from the GMS cards there was a lot of "field" modifications and every circuit should be Double checked.

non the less, lets make it and do it open! ??

Thanks!

~Russ

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #34, on November 17th, 2011, 12:56 PM »
[attachment=503][attachment=504][attachment=505][attachment=506][attachment=507][attachment=508]

Here is my latest and greatest print attempts.  I added supports to the bobbin cores, which turned out nice.:)  I also modified Haxar's latest end cap to beef up the zip-tie areas.  Now it fills in all the middles, except the narrowest spot.  I made the width 3mm, which seems to be the narrowest you can go with out loosing infill.  1 mm for each shell and 1 mm for the infill.  
I also printed with a 2 layer raft to help reduce warping.  I want to try to make the parts print out on the bed 90 degrees from what they do now.  The rafting just doesn't work as well when it is parrallel to the length of the object.  I think I can fix that by making an stl with a complete set parts.  Skeinforge seems to put the length along the Y axis.  You can see in the endcap picture where i have half of the rafting removed, some of the corners didn't stick because the raft didn't line up.  
Haxar the holes turned out nice.:cool:  Don't really need to ream much out if you didn't want too.

RepRaps are sweet! :cool:

Nate
RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #35, on November 17th, 2011, 02:57 PM »
Quote from firepinto on November 17th, 2011, 12:56 PM
Here is my latest and greatest print attempts.  I added supports to the bobbin cores, which turned out nice.:)  I also modified Haxar's latest end cap to beef up the zip-tie areas.  Now it fills in all the middles, except the narrowest spot.  I made the width 3mm, which seems to be the narrowest you can go with out loosing infill.  1 mm for each shell and 1 mm for the infill.  
I also printed with a 2 layer raft to help reduce warping.  I want to try to make the parts print out on the bed 90 degrees from what they do now.  The rafting just doesn't work as well when it is parrallel to the length of the object.  I think I can fix that by making an stl with a complete set parts.  Skeinforge seems to put the length along the Y axis.  You can see in the endcap picture where i have half of the rafting removed, some of the corners didn't stick because the raft didn't line up.  
Haxar the holes turned out nice.:cool:  Don't really need to ream much out if you didn't want too.

RepRaps are sweet! :cool:

Nate
I have a couple more tweaks.  Ill have them out today. Please stand by.:P

Nate

~Russ

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #36, on November 17th, 2011, 03:04 PM »
Quote from firepinto on November 17th, 2011, 12:56 PM
Here is my latest and greatest print attempts.  I added supports to the bobbin cores, which turned out nice.:)  I also modified Haxar's latest end cap to beef up the zip-tie areas.  Now it fills in all the middles, except the narrowest spot.  I made the width 3mm, which seems to be the narrowest you can go with out loosing infill.  1 mm for each shell and 1 mm for the infill.  
I also printed with a 2 layer raft to help reduce warping.  I want to try to make the parts print out on the bed 90 degrees from what they do now.  The rafting just doesn't work as well when it is parrallel to the length of the object.  I think I can fix that by making an stl with a complete set parts.  Skeinforge seems to put the length along the Y axis.  You can see in the endcap picture where i have half of the rafting removed, some of the corners didn't stick because the raft didn't line up.  
Haxar the holes turned out nice.:cool:  Don't really need to ream much out if you didn't want too.

RepRaps are sweet! :cool:

Nate
Nice!!!!! Good work Nate! And haxar! Blessings! ~Russ

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #37, on November 17th, 2011, 03:41 PM »Last edited on November 17th, 2011, 03:42 PM by firepinto
[attachment=510][attachment=511]


I found out that I needed to rotate the objects in Google Sketchup.  I tried a print with it rotated and it worked much better with the raft.  There was a trade off though, the "wings" on the bobbin didn't start off great.  Printing with out the raft would be the ideal way to do it.  I added some little indentations to the bobbin walls.  They are only 0.5 mm deep, and they strengthen the walls, by "glueing" each side together.  My test print only had 2 indentations, and I found adding a 3rd would be better.  They shouldn't affect how the coils are wound.  
I also extended the supports outside of the bobbin.  I was having spots where the nozzle wasn't feeding material at the starts of the lines.  That will give it time to get flowing again.  
Sketchup and STL files are attatched. :cool:

Nate

Muxar

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #38, on November 18th, 2011, 12:47 AM »
Hello everyone!
I´m really enjoying with all the great job you are doing!
I have got a microwave tranformer and i got this ferrrite core from it! it´s composed of a big amount of pieces welded each other,so all you have to do is take the number os pieces you need and  cut the middle part that we don´t want to.
I think that will work perfect as a VIC core!![attachment=512][attachment=513][attachment=514][attachment=515]
Quote from firepinto on November 17th, 2011, 03:41 PM
I found out that I needed to rotate the objects in Google Sketchup.  I tried a print with it rotated and it worked much better with the raft.  There was a trade off though, the "wings" on the bobbin didn't start off great.  Printing with out the raft would be the ideal way to do it.  I added some little indentations to the bobbin walls.  They are only 0.5 mm deep, and they strengthen the walls, by "glueing" each side together.  My test print only had 2 indentations, and I found adding a 3rd would be better.  They shouldn't affect how the coils are wound.  
I also extended the supports outside of the bobbin.  I was having spots where the nozzle wasn't feeding material at the starts of the lines.  That will give it time to get flowing again.  
Sketchup and STL files are attatched. :cool:

Nate

~Russ

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #39, on November 18th, 2011, 03:01 AM »
Quote from Muxar on November 18th, 2011, 12:47 AM
Hello everyone!
I´m really enjoying with all the great job you are doing!
I have got a microwave transformer and i got this ferrite core from it! it´s composed of a big amount of pieces welded each other,so all you have to do is take the number os pieces you need and  cut the middle part that we don´t want to.
I think that will work perfect as a VIC core!!
fantastic idea, sadly that's not ferrite and some other folks have tested iron. The permeability needs to be higher.

others and me have looked for a core to fit the transformer and could not find any. we will need to cut it out of a sheet. i have not yet done the research for the ferrite sheet.

hope we can find some.

~Russ

Muxar

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #40, on November 18th, 2011, 08:30 AM »
Hy Russ!
So,what the hell is the staf i have?is it not going to work properly?
what do you mean with permeability?
it Has to be definately ferrite core?
Thanks
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on November 18th, 2011, 03:01 AM
Quote from Muxar on November 18th, 2011, 12:47 AM
Hello everyone!
I´m really enjoying with all the great job you are doing!
I have got a microwave transformer and i got this ferrite core from it! it´s composed of a big amount of pieces welded each other,so all you have to do is take the number os pieces you need and  cut the middle part that we don´t want to.
I think that will work perfect as a VIC core!!
fantastic idea, sadly that's not ferrite and some other folks have tested iron. The permeability needs to be higher.

others and me have looked for a core to fit the transformer and could not find any. we will need to cut it out of a sheet. i have not yet done the research for the ferrite sheet.

hope we can find some.

~Russ

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #41, on November 18th, 2011, 08:00 PM »
Quote from firepinto on November 17th, 2011, 03:41 PM
I found out that I needed to rotate the objects in Google Sketchup.  I tried a print with it rotated and it worked much better with the raft.  There was a trade off though, the "wings" on the bobbin didn't start off great.  Printing with out the raft would be the ideal way to do it.  I added some little indentations to the bobbin walls.  They are only 0.5 mm deep, and they strengthen the walls, by "glueing" each side together.  My test print only had 2 indentations, and I found adding a 3rd would be better.  They shouldn't affect how the coils are wound.  
I also extended the supports outside of the bobbin.  I was having spots where the nozzle wasn't feeding material at the starts of the lines.  That will give it time to get flowing again.  
Sketchup and STL files are attatched. :cool:

Nate
Well, so far the design seems like its going to work out great.  It never fails, that is when something else goes wrong.  I had an STL made that printed a complete set of parts.  I let it print over night only to find out the parts were brittle and falling apart in the morning.  I think cold ambient temps, and too many parts at one time were the problem.  I turned the shed heat up to 80 F and things started to print better.  Thats when the Z opto mount on the printer broke.:@:rolleyes: I'll have to fix that up before I can make any more Stan Gear.:P  I wish I had Jeff's cast alum heated bed plate finished now. lol
 I made a short video of the bad parts, I'll try to get it up in a day or so.  

Nate

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #42, on November 19th, 2011, 02:05 AM »
I talked with a source that has had many of these ferrite cores break on him... they are very brittle!@ I am wondering if there is another substance with similar permeability?

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Permeability_%28electromagnetism%29#5
I am not sure how aluminum fits in to this chart. aluminum i think is paramagnetic

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #43, on November 19th, 2011, 02:18 AM »
Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on November 19th, 2011, 02:05 AM
I talked with a source that has had many of these ferrite cores break on him... they are very brittle!@ I am wondering if there is another substance with similar permeability?

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Permeability_%28electromagnetism%29#5
I am not sure how aluminum fits in to this chart. aluminum i think is paramagnetic
I was thinking about something like Zerofossilfuel was going to do with his muller coils.  I think he was going to mix super fine magnetite and epoxy.  Instead of that, I was thinking what if you melted PLA filament, blended in magnetite powder, and then extruded it back into filament?  Then you could just print out what ever shape of core you wanted.  I have no idea if it is possible to get enough powder in the plastic, and still be able to extrude it all through a 0.5mm hole.  Or if you can get enough powder in the plastic to even work as a magnetic core.  It would be awesome if it did.:)

Nate

~Russ

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #44, on November 19th, 2011, 04:20 AM »
Quote from Muxar on November 18th, 2011, 08:30 AM
Hy Russ!
So,what the hell is the staf i have?is it not going to work properly?
what do you mean with permeability?
it Has to be definately ferrite core?
Thanks
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on November 18th, 2011, 03:01 AM
Quote from Muxar on November 18th, 2011, 12:47 AM
Hello everyone!
I´m really enjoying with all the great job you are doing!
I have got a microwave transformer and i got this ferrite core from it! it´s composed of a big amount of pieces welded each other,so all you have to do is take the number os pieces you need and  cut the middle part that we don´t want to.
I think that will work perfect as a VIC core!!
fantastic idea, sadly that's not ferrite and some other folks have tested iron. The permeability needs to be higher.

others and me have looked for a core to fit the transformer and could not find any. we will need to cut it out of a sheet. i have not yet done the research for the ferrite sheet.

hope we can find some.

~Russ
from other sources, i have herd that iron will not work. but its worth a try as you are looking good! all we can do is test it...

check out this: http://wapedia.mobi/en/Permeability_%28electromagnetism%29

thanks to Kevin for the link.

~Russ

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #45, on November 19th, 2011, 09:36 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on November 19th, 2011, 04:20 AM
Quote from Muxar on November 18th, 2011, 08:30 AM
Hy Russ!
So,what the hell is the staf i have?is it not going to work properly?
what do you mean with permeability?
it Has to be definately ferrite core?
Thanks
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on November 18th, 2011, 03:01 AM
Quote from Muxar on November 18th, 2011, 12:47 AM
Hello everyone!
I´m really enjoying with all the great job you are doing!
I have got a microwave transformer and i got this ferrite core from it! it´s composed of a big amount of pieces welded each other,so all you have to do is take the number os pieces you need and  cut the middle part that we don´t want to.
I think that will work perfect as a VIC core!!
fantastic idea, sadly that's not ferrite and some other folks have tested iron. The permeability needs to be higher.

others and me have looked for a core to fit the transformer and could not find any. we will need to cut it out of a sheet. i have not yet done the research for the ferrite sheet.

hope we can find some.

~Russ
from other sources, i have herd that iron will not work. but its worth a try as you are looking good! all we can do is test it...

check out this: http://wapedia.mobi/en/Permeability_%28electromagnetism%29

thanks to Kevin for the link.

~Russ
i dont quite understand that chart yet. aluminum is on the list but it does nothing to inductance
RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #46, on November 19th, 2011, 04:14 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqoHOAEKc-k&list=UUfZp4JFYt17h0XuPn9uUGOg&feature=plcp

Hey guys, I saw this video a few weeks back. They sell it in my gf's work in a art supply store. Sorry for the french. Check out at 1min 50sec. Could make a mold for bobbins or a ""resin ferrite core""?? Check out my post in the Open Source Health section about orgonite to see them pouring resin in molds.. they spray the molds with grease so it doesn't stick
RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #48, on November 20th, 2011, 08:47 PM »
Correction.. Maybe,

Hard Ferrite Powder

http://ceiec-sz.en.alibaba.com/product/214238669-200401780/CEIEC_Hard_Ferrite_Powder.html

I think this powder normally gets pressed in a form. If we use epoxy we loose permiability.


Someone had mentioned just using 4 strips of ferrite to make the rectangle shape.. Thought that sounded easy., Separate pieces = less permeability??

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #49, on November 21st, 2011, 05:10 AM »
Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on November 20th, 2011, 08:47 PM
Correction.. Maybe,

Hard Ferrite Powder

http://ceiec-sz.en.alibaba.com/product/214238669-200401780/CEIEC_Hard_Ferrite_Powder.html

I think this powder normally gets pressed in a form. If we use epoxy we loose permiability.


Someone had mentioned just using 4 strips of ferrite to make the rectangle shape.. Thought that sounded easy., Separate pieces = less permeability??
I think the gaps between the pieces are where the losses come from.  Leedskalnin said his PMH needed to have a perfect fit on the iron bars to work properly.  If you look at the vic pictures you can see the gap between the C cores through the peep hole.  I'm wondering if two gaps that fit tight will be equal to one gap with air space.

Nate