Step by step VIC build

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #50, on November 21st, 2011, 07:13 PM »
[attachment=517][attachment=518]

Here are my latest and greatest prints of the Haxar VIC bobbins.:cool:  I printed with out a raft this time.  I adjusted my Z home so that the first layer didn't flatten out, but still stuck to the bed.  The parts fit together tight, and need a little sanding to fit perfect.  Part of the tightness is from the slight warping when the part cools during printing.  These turned out really strong, I can't wait to see some wire turned on them.:D
I found a bunch of these ferrite bars from an out of business russian shop.. they are a little thick and a bit too short.  Could be made to work?:huh:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FERRITE-BARS-62x12x4mm-400HH-material-67-u-40-120pcs-/380387504420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5890dcb124

Nate

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #51, on November 21st, 2011, 07:54 PM »
Quote from firepinto on November 21st, 2011, 07:13 PM
Here are my latest and greatest prints of the Haxar VIC bobbins.:cool:  I printed with out a raft this time.  I adjusted my Z home so that the first layer didn't flatten out, but still stuck to the bed.  The parts fit together tight, and need a little sanding to fit perfect.  Part of the tightness is from the slight warping when the part cools during printing.  These turned out really strong, I can't wait to see some wire turned on them.:D
I found a bunch of these ferrite bars from an out of business russian shop.. they are a little thick and a bit too short.  Could be made to work?:huh:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FERRITE-BARS-62x12x4mm-400HH-material-67-u-40-120pcs-/380387504420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5890dcb124

Nate
Pintobobbins look amazing. Nice One ;)

~Russ

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #52, on November 21st, 2011, 11:14 PM »
Quote from firepinto on November 21st, 2011, 07:13 PM
Here are my latest and greatest prints of the Haxar VIC bobbins.:cool:  I printed with out a raft this time.  I adjusted my Z home so that the first layer didn't flatten out, but still stuck to the bed.  The parts fit together tight, and need a little sanding to fit perfect.  Part of the tightness is from the slight warping when the part cools during printing.  These turned out really strong, I can't wait to see some wire turned on them.:D
I found a bunch of these ferrite bars from an out of business russian shop.. they are a little thick and a bit too short.  Could be made to work?:huh:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FERRITE-BARS-62x12x4mm-400HH-material-67-u-40-120pcs-/380387504420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5890dcb124

Nate
holly crap that is sweet!

man i nee doe of those!!!!!! cant wait to see the bobbins Nate! on there way ?

wow i just love the way they look!!!!! your hard work on that printer is paying off!  

blessings!!

PS, the ferrite is to small... :(

~Russ

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #53, on November 22nd, 2011, 08:19 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on November 21st, 2011, 11:14 PM
Quote from firepinto on November 21st, 2011, 07:13 PM
Here are my latest and greatest prints of the Haxar VIC bobbins.:cool:  I printed with out a raft this time.  I adjusted my Z home so that the first layer didn't flatten out, but still stuck to the bed.  The parts fit together tight, and need a little sanding to fit perfect.  Part of the tightness is from the slight warping when the part cools during printing.  These turned out really strong, I can't wait to see some wire turned on them.:D
I found a bunch of these ferrite bars from an out of business russian shop.. they are a little thick and a bit too short.  Could be made to work?:huh:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FERRITE-BARS-62x12x4mm-400HH-material-67-u-40-120pcs-/380387504420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5890dcb124

Nate
holly crap that is sweet!

man i nee doe of those!!!!!! cant wait to see the bobbins Nate! on there way ?

wow i just love the way they look!!!!! your hard work on that printer is paying off!  

blessings!!

PS, the ferrite is to small... :(

~Russ
Thanks Kevin and Russ:)  I'll have the package out today!  I want to put a couple extra goodies in it first.:P  
My next goal is to build my new printer.  Specifically for building large parts that need water erasable supports.:cool:  I'm finding I'll have to design my own printer parts or modify existing designs to make it work.  It's gonna be a bit different.:P

Nate

Jeff Nading

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #54, on November 22nd, 2011, 05:54 PM »Last edited on November 22nd, 2011, 05:59 PM by Jeff Nading
Haxar, Nate, Russ and Kevin, I just found these posts from youall :huh: , great stuff, I cannot believe I had not seen these posts before now :blush:. I guess I have been working on my 3d printer to much. Nate I did not know you were printing bobbins already, they are fabulous :cool: . I was wondering, --- how ferite cores are made, can they be cast, can ferite be melted and at what temperature, if so the lost wax investment casting method would be the way to go, like one would make a gold ring :D. What do you think, would it be possible? I think I will do a little experimenting.

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #55, on November 22nd, 2011, 07:29 PM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on November 22nd, 2011, 05:54 PM
Haxar, Nate, Russ and Kevin, I just found these posts from youall :huh: , great stuff, I cannot believe I had not seen these posts before now :blush:. I guess I have been working on my 3d printer to much. Nate I did not know you were printing bobbins already, they are fabulous :cool: . I was wondering, --- how ferite cores are made, can they be cast, can ferite be melted and at what temperature, if so the lost wax investment casting method would be the way to go, like one would make a gold ring :D. What do you think, would it be possible? I think I will do a little experimenting.
Hey Jeff, lol yeah these printers can consume your life.:P   Russ will have the bobbins I printed in a couple days.:cool:  I've switched from bobbins to printer parts for now.  Printer 1 is behaving very well now, so I'm making it ooze out parts as fast as I can.
   We are all wondering the same thing about the ferrite cores.  Zerofossilfuel is making muller motor cores with printer toner (magnetite) and epoxy in a casting mold.  I don't know how well that worked for him.  Melting ferrite is probably not the way to go.  I think it is powdered and compressed to reduce eddy currents.   But maybe it would work?  Would be interesting to know how Zero's cores compare to cores of the same size of factory ferrite cores.  

Nate

~Russ

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #56, on November 22nd, 2011, 10:21 PM »
Quote from firepinto on November 22nd, 2011, 08:19 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on November 21st, 2011, 11:14 PM
Quote from firepinto on November 21st, 2011, 07:13 PM
Here are my latest and greatest prints of the Haxar VIC bobbins.:cool:  I printed with out a raft this time.  I adjusted my Z home so that the first layer didn't flatten out, but still stuck to the bed.  The parts fit together tight, and need a little sanding to fit perfect.  Part of the tightness is from the slight warping when the part cools during printing.  These turned out really strong, I can't wait to see some wire turned on them.:D
I found a bunch of these ferrite bars from an out of business russian shop.. they are a little thick and a bit too short.  Could be made to work?:huh:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FERRITE-BARS-62x12x4mm-400HH-material-67-u-40-120pcs-/380387504420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5890dcb124

Nate
holly crap that is sweet!

man i nee doe of those!!!!!! cant wait to see the bobbins Nate! on there way ?

wow i just love the way they look!!!!! your hard work on that printer is paying off!  

blessings!!

PS, the ferrite is to small... :(

~Russ
Thanks Kevin and Russ:)  I'll have the package out today!  I want to put a couple extra goodies in it first.:P  
My next goal is to build my new printer.  Specifically for building large parts that need water erasable supports.:cool:  I'm finding I'll have to design my own printer parts or modify existing designs to make it work.  It's gonna be a bit different.:P

Nate
well you can just print parts out so it wont take too long! lol SWEET!

cant wait to see it! good luck! !

~Russ

phil

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #57, on November 24th, 2011, 04:36 AM »
Years ago my brother made a hydraulic press out of a bottle jack an I beams . If the ferrite powder needs pressing into shape in a mould.
I've got a micrometals t650 iron dust core, when I've finished my russtic 7.0 I was going to give the Vic a shot on that core , dont know if it'll be any good

Jeff Nading

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #58, on November 24th, 2011, 05:51 AM »
Quote from phil on November 24th, 2011, 04:36 AM
Years ago my brother made a hydraulic press out of a bottle jack an I beams . If the ferrite powder needs pressing into shape in a mould.
I've got a micrometals t650 iron dust core, when I've finished my russtic 7.0 I was going to give the Vic a shot on that core , dont know if it'll be any good
It would be worth a try Phil, I have been doing a little research and found that dry ceramic powder can be mixed with ferrite powder, moistened, molded and then fired to make a ferrite core, same process to make bone china, that's one reason why ferrite cores are so easily broken.

~Russ

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #59, on November 24th, 2011, 08:53 PM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on November 24th, 2011, 05:51 AM
Quote from phil on November 24th, 2011, 04:36 AM
Years ago my brother made a hydraulic press out of a bottle jack an I beams . If the ferrite powder needs pressing into shape in a mould.
I've got a micrometals t650 iron dust core, when I've finished my russtic 7.0 I was going to give the Vic a shot on that core , dont know if it'll be any good
It would be worth a try Phil, I have been doing a little research and found that dry ceramic powder can be mixed with ferrite powder, moistened, molded and then fired to make a ferrite core, same process to make bone china, that's one reason why ferrite cores are so easily broken.
All, please be ware that even tho we may be able to make these firrite cores, we got to make sure we can match the permeability! If its too low! We may as well use steel! Don't know how to calulater it but some one dose???? ~Russ
RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #60, on November 29th, 2011, 03:04 AM »
Quote from Oneminde on November 10th, 2011, 08:20 AM
Quote from firepinto on November 10th, 2011, 07:40 AM
Quote
Hello Firepinto.
Are able to print me the VIC bobbins? (see image)
It may be possible to print that style of bobbins too.  I don't have any 3D drawings of that style as of yet.  I plan on trying more styles in the future, but my spare time is very limited for the rest of 2011.  Are the dimensions in the first picture including the iron core?  

Nate
I've attached the size for the core (original). In remarks to what you wrote "iron core" this has already been tested and it do not work. We know that the permeability is between 1550-1600. We started with a Ferrite core (hard) that got roughly 2000 in perm, we then did a test and re calculated the data and found that the perm is roughly 300-400 higher then what it should be. So for now, you can drop testing an iron core. Here is a picture taken from the replicated core.

Regarding the gap in the bobbins, this added measurement will answer that question
so where were these cores from? who and what on these cores? what kind of data do we have? where can we get some?

thanks!

~Russ
RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #61, on November 29th, 2011, 03:09 AM »
Quote from haxar on November 16th, 2011, 06:17 PM
As for the electronics in Stan's original voltage intensifier circuit, I've done a trace of its card here:



(click to enlarge or download the editable SVG image file zipped in the attachments)

I've drawn up the complete "functioning" schematic of the circuit as well:



(click for a printable PDF of the schematic)

The zipped schematic file in the attachments may only be compatible with gschem of the gEDA electronic toolkit, so compatibility varies.
hello haxar, so whats the word, and luck with this schematic? is it working as pland?

any adjustments that need to be made?

thanks!

~Russ

Muxar

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #62, on November 29th, 2011, 07:53 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on November 29th, 2011, 03:09 AM
Quote from haxar on November 16th, 2011, 06:17 PM
As for the electronics in Stan's original voltage intensifier circuit, I've done a trace of its card here:



(click to enlarge or download the editable SVG image file zipped in the attachments)

I've drawn up the complete "functioning" schematic of the circuit as well:



(click for a printable PDF of the schematic)

The zipped schematic file in the attachments may only be compatible with gschem of the gEDA electronic toolkit, so compatibility varies.
hello haxar, so whats the word, and luck with this schematic? is it working as pland?

any adjustments that need to be made?

thanks!

~Russ
Hey guys!
So it supouses that this circuit is going to give us the exact frecuency that is needed to split the water molecules at the most eficiency way?
Oh man! that´s exciting!!
good job Axar!! and thanks for sharing!!

haxar

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #63, on November 29th, 2011, 11:34 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on November 29th, 2011, 03:09 AM
hello haxar, so whats the word, and luck with this schematic? is it working as pland?

any adjustments that need to be made?

thanks!

~Russ
I'm awaiting for the Prusa Mendel kit and the fuel cell materials to come in so I can print out the bobbins, construct the transformer and the fuel cell for testing the circuit. So, no progress has been made to test and modify the circuit for now.

Jeff Nading

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #64, on November 29th, 2011, 01:29 PM »
Quote from haxar on November 29th, 2011, 11:34 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on November 29th, 2011, 03:09 AM
hello haxar, so whats the word, and luck with this schematic? is it working as pland?

any adjustments that need to be made?

thanks!

~Russ
I'm awaiting for the Prusa Mendel kit and the fuel cell materials to come in so I can print out the bobbins, construct the transformer and the fuel cell for testing the circuit. So, no progress has been made to test and modify the circuit for now.
Hi Haxar, welcome to the Prusa family of 3d printers:cool:. Did you buy a complete kit or buy parts to build one like Nate and I? Either way if you need help, I am always around, if I can help I will, also everything Nate and I have done for this build is posted on this forum, Jeff.

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #65, on December 13th, 2011, 05:51 PM »
[attachment=576][attachment=577]

I did a quick Sketchup of some snap-together round VIC bobbins.  The bobbin dimensions are similar to the Stan Meyer rectangular versions, except they are for a 0.4 inch round ferrite rod.  The end cap will hold the bobbins just as the original.  I added an area for a square ferrite rod in each cap.  No idea if a rod that size is available, but it leaves room to experiment.:)  There are two slots for zip ties in each cap instead of notches.  The diameter of the bobbin walls was calculated by matching the surface area with the original rectangular bobbin walls.
This should print with out the need of any supports.  I'm not around my printer till the weekend so I haven't tried it.:P  Can anyone think of any thing that could be added or changed?

Nate

Jeff Nading

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #66, on December 13th, 2011, 06:24 PM »
Quote from firepinto on December 13th, 2011, 05:51 PM
I did a quick Sketchup of some snap-together round VIC bobbins.  The bobbin dimensions are similar to the Stan Meyer rectangular versions, except they are for a 0.4 inch round ferrite rod.  The end cap will hold the bobbins just as the original.  I added an area for a square ferrite rod in each cap.  No idea if a rod that size is available, but it leaves room to experiment.:)  There are two slots for zip ties in each cap instead of notches.  The diameter of the bobbin walls was calculated by matching the surface area with the original rectangular bobbin walls.
This should print with out the need of any supports.  I'm not around my printer till the weekend so I haven't tried it.:P  Can anyone think of any thing that could be added or changed?

Nate
Those look awesome Nate.

~Russ

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #67, on December 13th, 2011, 11:28 PM »
Quote from firepinto on December 13th, 2011, 05:51 PM
I did a quick Sketchup of some snap-together round VIC bobbins.  The bobbin dimensions are similar to the Stan Meyer rectangular versions, except they are for a 0.4 inch round ferrite rod.  The end cap will hold the bobbins just as the original.  I added an area for a square ferrite rod in each cap.  No idea if a rod that size is available, but it leaves room to experiment.:)  There are two slots for zip ties in each cap instead of notches.  The diameter of the bobbin walls was calculated by matching the surface area with the original rectangular bobbin walls.
This should print with out the need of any supports.  I'm not around my printer till the weekend so I haven't tried it.:P  Can anyone think of any thing that could be added or changed?

Nate
nate, so this bobbin will pop together to give us 3 bobbing in one side? 2 bigger bobbing with a smaller one in the middle?

also, i'm looking for a core that will fit this type of setup and then we can make them for that core but with all the correct bobbin sizes...

i like!

open source! :) love it!

~Russ

PS. ill put my orders in soon :) lol

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #68, on December 14th, 2011, 03:13 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on December 13th, 2011, 11:28 PM
Quote from firepinto on December 13th, 2011, 05:51 PM
I did a quick Sketchup of some snap-together round VIC bobbins.  The bobbin dimensions are similar to the Stan Meyer rectangular versions, except they are for a 0.4 inch round ferrite rod.  The end cap will hold the bobbins just as the original.  I added an area for a square ferrite rod in each cap.  No idea if a rod that size is available, but it leaves room to experiment.:)  There are two slots for zip ties in each cap instead of notches.  The diameter of the bobbin walls was calculated by matching the surface area with the original rectangular bobbin walls.
This should print with out the need of any supports.  I'm not around my printer till the weekend so I haven't tried it.:P  Can anyone think of any thing that could be added or changed?

Nate
nate, so this bobbin will pop together to give us 3 bobbing in one side? 2 bigger bobbing with a smaller one in the middle?

also, i'm looking for a core that will fit this type of setup and then we can make them for that core but with all the correct bobbin sizes...

i like!

open source! :) love it!

~Russ

PS. ill put my orders in soon :) lol
Yep, two of the longer half spools and two of the small round tips need to be printed for one side.  The other two halves are the middle part of the bobbin.  I can put together an exploded view of what the pieces look like put together later today.:)

Nate

phil

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #69, on December 14th, 2011, 11:20 AM »
Whats anyones thoughts on permalloy as a core material. Russ said that he needed a higher permebility core than the ferrite he had, permalloy has a permebility of 80000-100000. Its definatly higher but could this be too high?
I can get hold of 1/2 inch diameter 4 inch long for £120 ($200), its expensive yes but if its a better material im tempted to give it a go.
There are permalloy E-cores on ebay, again around the £100 mark but they arent very big, about 65mm overall length if i remember rightly.

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #70, on December 14th, 2011, 12:39 PM »
Quote from phil on December 14th, 2011, 11:20 AM
Whats anyones thoughts on permalloy as a core material. Russ said that he needed a higher permebility core than the ferrite he had, permalloy has a permebility of 80000-100000. Its definatly higher but could this be too high?
I can get hold of 1/2 inch diameter 4 inch long for £120 ($200), its expensive yes but if its a better material im tempted to give it a go.
There are permalloy E-cores on ebay, again around the £100 mark but they arent very big, about 65mm overall length if i remember rightly.
Wow that is pricey.  Maybe if the permeability is that high, the cross-section of the core could be smaller?  Maybe 1/4" could work.  Sure seems like ferrite cores are hard to find.:-/


phil

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #71, on December 14th, 2011, 01:34 PM »
Quote from firepinto on December 14th, 2011, 12:39 PM
Quote from phil on December 14th, 2011, 11:20 AM
Whats anyones thoughts on permalloy as a core material. Russ said that he needed a higher permebility core than the ferrite he had, permalloy has a permebility of 80000-100000. Its definatly higher but could this be too high?
I can get hold of 1/2 inch diameter 4 inch long for £120 ($200), its expensive yes but if its a better material im tempted to give it a go.
There are permalloy E-cores on ebay, again around the £100 mark but they arent very big, about 65mm overall length if i remember rightly.
Wow that is pricey.  Maybe if the permeability is that high, the cross-section of the core could be smaller?  Maybe 1/4" could work.  Sure seems like ferrite cores are hard to find.:-/
1/4 is only £10 cheaper than the 1/2 inch, the price of this stuff really drops off with the bigger quantities, they stock powder,rod, foil and tube. Heres the link, ive ordered some pure iron from these guys before    http://www.goodfellow.com/A/Magnetic-Shielding-Alloy.html

I have heard you have to keep this stuff really cool as the magnetic properties drop off with anything over 70C.

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #72, on December 14th, 2011, 02:15 PM »
[attachment=578]
Here is the complete set picture.:)

Nate

~Russ

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #73, on December 14th, 2011, 06:46 PM »
Quote from firepinto on December 14th, 2011, 02:15 PM
Here is the complete set picture.:)

Nate
wow! yes! love it! now we need a core...

they make cores that are flats on the end and round in the center. like this :



so we just need to do some digging now...

but really you could print off square bobbins as well that all snap together! yeah! sweet!

nice work Nate! ~Russ

firepinto

RE: Step by step VIC build
« Reply #74, on December 17th, 2011, 02:07 PM »Last edited on December 17th, 2011, 04:00 PM by firepinto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Br0GxjQn_Y

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Sketchup and STL files are attatched:
[attachment=584]

Nate