Because it is a dynamic system I think the PLL is not fast enough to balancing the changin effects in the WFC.Quote from bussi04 on November 16th, 2012, 04:47 AM h2opower´s experiment shows that 10 isolated steel tubes in line in destilled water driven by a VIC of a primary, 1 secondary, 2 magnet wire coils, 2 steel wire coils can be stressed to 500 - 1000 V. that means 50 to 100 V over a single cell. And there is step charging.Quote from Amsy on November 16th, 2012, 04:20 AM I can agree to this.Quote from adys15 on November 16th, 2012, 03:30 AM Thouse hv bursts will end up 10v...even if you increase the impedance of the wfc.ohm's law bulshetU=I*R=10V from 20kv...where r=10M...bulPoo...
There is no chance to hit a low resistance like water with 20kV.
So on every secondary side of high voltage transfo the voltage will brake down, because it nearly a dead short circuit.
You can calculate which power would be necessary to reach 20kV on the water.
P=U²/R --> so you can replace the variable U with 20kV and R with a very tiny value, like 20 ohms or something for water because of the ions inside.
For comparison:
Air does have a large ohmic resistance. Replace the variable R with a very high value and you will see whats happening. The VIC has a hugh difference in function when ideling or like dead short with water.
But we have not only high pulses.
There is an Diode-L-CR-L Network which is been feeded with positive (diode) voltage pulses. So that the voltage can rise on the secondary, it is necessary that the resistance will go up. For example: Meyer did this by replacing the coils with stainless steel wire to get ~12kOhms /coil. Thats a good value. Depending which power is feeded in on the primary side, U secondary=sqrt(PxR).
So because of the large coils, the high frequency and the R inside the coils, the current is inhibited, thats a good basic to prevent electrolyses. But which Effect will this have on the C?
The C will be loaded with every puls. But how high is the ending voltage in the C. Does the C load to the value of the peaks? Or maybe lower because of the voltage dividing effect of the network?
Basically there is no magic behind producing high voltages out of a flyback or an Obit or something like this. It is always depending on the complete Z on the secondary side. When high enough you reach high voltage.
regards!
water as a dielectric is a good isolator for at least 50 µs until dielectric breakdown. so imagine the pulsing core configuration as a charge pump being supplied by moderate RMS amps at the primary and supplying high peak amps phase shifted to voltage for a short time at vic output. or think about the vic being a damped LCL oscillator with specific magnetic flux (because of the steel wire) with primary pulse excitement.
it´s a dynamic system! as you can´t expect a car engine working fired by a sequence of matches (wrong timing and wrong adjustment) you cant´t expect Meyer´s WFC work beyond the limits of operational parameters. those are core, inductance, capacitance, resistance, length, distance, pressure, water quality, voltage and timing.
Also more than one water type should work...Stan said it worked with all types of water and when there are more contaminents (dirt,salt,...) in the water the frequency of the PLL was automatically rising.
I was thinking also on a charging pump application for the capacity of the WFC. Unfortunately the low resistance of water will always short out this capacity. So no load can be saved.
Do you have a source to the 50µs? This looks quite fast. So the step charging musst be finished after this period of time. The frequency of the short pulses musst be quite higher to gain voltage like in a charging pump.
Yeah thats right, but also for meyers circuits the laws of electrotechnical circuits operation are valid. Btw. do we know which high voltage is necessary to ionize or split water without amps.
Thanks, Amsy :)Which voltage? voltage measured over one WFC? Or the overall voltage of the VIC?Quote from adys15 on November 16th, 2012, 07:48 AM I tried puting 2 wfc in series but the voltage droped even more...what a surprise!Quote from bussi04 on November 16th, 2012, 04:47 AM h2opower´s experiment shows that 10 isolated steel tubes in line in destilled water driven by a VIC of a primary, 1 secondary, 2 magnet wire coils, 2 steel wire coils can be stressed to 500 - 1000 V. that means 50 to 100 V over a single cell. And there is step charging.Quote from Amsy on November 16th, 2012, 04:20 AM I can agree to this.Quote from adys15 on November 16th, 2012, 03:30 AM Thouse hv bursts will end up 10v...even if you increase the impedance of the wfc.ohm's law bulshetU=I*R=10V from 20kv...where r=10M...bulPoo...
There is no chance to hit a low resistance like water with 20kV.
So on every secondary side of high voltage transfo the voltage will brake down, because it nearly a dead short circuit.
You can calculate which power would be necessary to reach 20kV on the water.
P=U²/R --> so you can replace the variable U with 20kV and R with a very tiny value, like 20 ohms or something for water because of the ions inside.
For comparison:
Air does have a large ohmic resistance. Replace the variable R with a very high value and you will see whats happening. The VIC has a hugh difference in function when ideling or like dead short with water.
But we have not only high pulses.
There is an Diode-L-CR-L Network which is been feeded with positive (diode) voltage pulses. So that the voltage can rise on the secondary, it is necessary that the resistance will go up. For example: Meyer did this by replacing the coils with stainless steel wire to get ~12kOhms /coil. Thats a good value. Depending which power is feeded in on the primary side, U secondary=sqrt(PxR).
So because of the large coils, the high frequency and the R inside the coils, the current is inhibited, thats a good basic to prevent electrolyses. But which Effect will this have on the C?
The C will be loaded with every puls. But how high is the ending voltage in the C. Does the C load to the value of the peaks? Or maybe lower because of the voltage dividing effect of the network?
Basically there is no magic behind producing high voltages out of a flyback or an Obit or something like this. It is always depending on the complete Z on the secondary side. When high enough you reach high voltage.
regards!
water as a dielectric is a good isolator for at least 50 µs until dielectric breakdown. so imagine the pulsing core configuration as a charge pump being supplied by moderate RMS amps at the primary and supplying high peak amps phase shifted to voltage for a short time at vic output. or think about the vic being a damped LCL oscillator with specific magnetic flux (because of the steel wire) with primary pulse excitement.
it´s a dynamic system! as you can´t expect a car engine working fired by a sequence of matches (wrong timing and wrong adjustment) you cant´t expect Meyer´s WFC work beyond the limits of operational parameters. those are core, inductance, capacitance, resistance, length, distance, pressure, water quality, voltage and timing.
the appended excerpt from "High-Voltage electrical breakdown of water" shows different measurements for dielectric breakdown time. table 2-2 at page 7 shows 0.25 ms for plain water.