Hi all.
first step try test with 8XA-diagram(bifilar) from JP,and think about how it work.because VIC - U - core(5coils) too complex.

JP give a lots information to us.i think we can success that easier.

thanks
geenee  

Quote from geenee on October 11th, 2012, 07:34 AM

first step try test with 8XA-diagram(bifilar) from JP,and think about how it work.because VIC - U - core(5coils) too complex.

I tend to agree.  There is something happening with the 8XA circuit we are not seeing.

I have a screwy theory about what "might" be happening.  Recall I mentioned atomic resonance and it being a pretty high frequency somewhere around either 21MHz or 42MHz.  Any chance when the bilar, air gapped coil collapses it produces spikes approximately 24ns or 48ns apart from each other?  I'm thinking a high spike followed by a reverse or low spike at that interval.  Check my units in comparison to that frequency--I think it's nano seconds but could be micro seconds.

My wild theory is maybe we are "ringing" loose the hydrogen atoms causing the water molecule to collapse.  Kind of like pushing a child on a swing--a strong push in one direction and then a strong pull at the right time in the other direction causing the child (atom) to fling right out of the swingset (molecule).

Since we have been playing in the audio frequency range for the charging of the coil, maybe none of us has really looked at what is happening when the coil discharges on the output side.  I know my scope tops out at 20MHz so I'm not able to see anything interesting.  If somebody has a 50MHz storage scope and can hook it across the WFC with differential inputs, maybe it's possible to catch those theoretical spikes.  It would certainly tell us something I can only suspect may be happening.  Even better if someone sees spikes maybe 30ns apart and can move them around while watching HHO output.

Just a thought.  Pick it apart best you can.

Quote from Dog-One on October 11th, 2012, 10:45 AM

Quote from geenee on October 11th, 2012, 07:34 AM

first step try test with 8XA-diagram(bifilar) from JP,and think about how it work.because VIC - U - core(5coils) too complex.

I tend to agree.  There is something happening with the 8XA circuit we are not seeing.

I have a screwy theory about what "might" be happening.  Recall I mentioned atomic resonance and it being a pretty high frequency somewhere around either 21MHz or 42MHz.  Any chance when the bilar, air gapped coil collapses it produces spikes approximately 24ns or 48ns apart from each other?  I'm thinking a high spike followed by a reverse or low spike at that interval.  Check my units in comparison to that frequency--I think it's nano seconds but could be micro seconds.

My wild theory is maybe we are "ringing" loose the hydrogen atoms causing the water molecule to collapse.  Kind of like pushing a child on a swing--a strong push in one direction and then a strong pull at the right time in the other direction causing the child (atom) to fling right out of the swingset (molecule).

Since we have been playing in the audio frequency range for the charging of the coil, maybe none of us has really looked at what is happening when the coil discharges on the output side.  I know my scope tops out at 20MHz so I'm not able to see anything interesting.  If somebody has a 50MHz storage scope and can hook it across the WFC with differential inputs, maybe it's possible to catch those theoretical spikes.  It would certainly tell us something I can only suspect may be happening.  Even better if someone sees spikes maybe 30ns apart and can move them around while watching HHO output.

Just a thought.  Pick it apart best you can.

i know something.coil is paralell LC when you charge coil,it osciltate inside paralell LC.frequecy range=GHZ i think 50mhz oscilloscope is unable to track it.this why coil has back spike cause high impedant high voltage.back EMF very importance,Tesla tech is about this.radiant energy come to Back EMF,high voltage open energy path way to go to atom.

i making a test ,will report future about 8XA.

thanks
geenee

Quote from Jeff Nading on October 11th, 2012, 05:36 AM

Good brain storming guy's, now I really think we are getting somewhere. Audio range, air-gap, ferrite core transformer. And, as always, thanks for all the hard work. Too, again, you "all" are welcome for the transformer link, glad it could help. :cool::D:P

Thank you for the words :exclamation: :)
Keeping motivation high for me...

Quote from geenee on October 11th, 2012, 09:45 PM

Quote from Dog-One on October 11th, 2012, 10:45 AM

Quote from geenee on October 11th, 2012, 07:34 AM

first step try test with 8XA-diagram(bifilar) from JP,and think about how it work.because VIC - U - core(5coils) too complex.

I tend to agree.  There is something happening with the 8XA circuit we are not seeing.

I have a screwy theory about what "might" be happening.  Recall I mentioned atomic resonance and it being a pretty high frequency somewhere around either 21MHz or 42MHz.  Any chance when the bilar, air gapped coil collapses it produces spikes approximately 24ns or 48ns apart from each other?  I'm thinking a high spike followed by a reverse or low spike at that interval.  Check my units in comparison to that frequency--I think it's nano seconds but could be micro seconds.

My wild theory is maybe we are "ringing" loose the hydrogen atoms causing the water molecule to collapse.  Kind of like pushing a child on a swing--a strong push in one direction and then a strong pull at the right time in the other direction causing the child (atom) to fling right out of the swingset (molecule).

Since we have been playing in the audio frequency range for the charging of the coil, maybe none of us has really looked at what is happening when the coil discharges on the output side.  I know my scope tops out at 20MHz so I'm not able to see anything interesting.  If somebody has a 50MHz storage scope and can hook it across the WFC with differential inputs, maybe it's possible to catch those theoretical spikes.  It would certainly tell us something I can only suspect may be happening.  Even better if someone sees spikes maybe 30ns apart and can move them around while watching HHO output.

Just a thought.  Pick it apart best you can.

i know something.coil is paralell LC when you charge coil,it osciltate inside paralell LC.frequecy range=GHZ i think 50mhz oscilloscope is unable to track it.this why coil has back spike cause high impedant high voltage.back EMF very importance,Tesla tech is about this.radiant energy come to Back EMF,high voltage open energy path way to go to atom.

i making a test ,will report future about 8XA.

thanks
geenee

Hi folks,

you are right. Let us keep it by the 8XA circuit. But this little brain stroming of the VIC brought some big points to us. I assume that the VIC and the 8XA technology do have the same bsic idea of meyer. The VIC seems to be a improved state of the 8XA.

To keep the complexity a little bit lower (hard enough), let us try to find some equality/analogy when we compare the VIC and the 8XA.
In both cases there are the Charging chokes and the WFC. And in both cases, the pulsing keeps in audio range. 8XA can go up to 100kHz (manually on the panel in the front of the black 8XA box) and the cores have an air gap.

To hit something like electrotechnical resonance the components of the circuit in the 8XA must be balanced to the frequency which is available.

Normaly you are right when you say, the resonance frequency of the coil itself is somewhere in MHz Range, but this valid for very tiny inductivitys.
Yyou can create a resonant cicuit with lower frequencys, because the resonant frequency depending on the components value (L and C).
With the formular f= 1/(2pi*sprt(LC)) you see that the frequency can be lowered by making L and the parasitic C bigger.
It is no problem to rise the L of a coil by wrapping more turns. To rise the parasitic C of a coil you need to wrap more layers of wire about each other.
Do we find something descriped in the Charging chokes? I think yes. Specially of the VIC the L of the Charging Chokes is very high (>1H) and they are wrapped in many layers of wire.

Maybe you know about this paper in the attachment:
We search components which might can swing in resonance.
So I take the value of the first Charging choke with ferrite core:
L=1218mH & C=157.7pF -> This is only the values of the first charging choke:
The resonant frequency of both is:  11484Hz = 11.4kHz -> So we are somewhere in the audio range. Also stan sayed that in the New Sealand video, that the frequency is somewhere in that range an can go up to 15kHz depending on the water. Also we hear in the newest, long (1 hour) video of meyer the PLL is working in audiorange.
Of course the hole system, secondary main, Charging choke 1&2 and the WFC (different water) do have an overall frequency which will be near to the frequency calculated above.. Therefor the VIC do have the PLL to search automatically for the right frequency to swing.

When the Resonant Charging Choke itself is swinging (L and the parasitic C) on the rigth frequency, the impendance Z of it becomes "infinity". So the current will be minimized and the voltage can rise up automatically. Because P=VxI / P=UxI is valid for the primary side and for the secondary.

Let us compare this, you will might see, that the 8XA does the same thing. But I don´t know the values of the charging chokes, so I cann´t say, what frequency it will be to swing. The chokes look smaller, so I think the resonant frequency is much higher than in the VIC (maybe the range of the device goes up to 100kHz). But they also have a parasitic C. A difference is that in the 8XA a common 60Hz sine will be rectified to 120Hz. That is the Voltage supply. Then this signal will be chopped by the transistor/thyristor to create high frequency. It would be better to have a big capacitance to smooth the supply voltage. So every chopped voltage peak is equal in amplitude.

As Stan sayed in the patents "amp inhibiting circuit", -> the operation of the circuit described above is the best/most efficient way to inhibit the amps! :) ->bacause no energy is wasted into heat.

However a little bit of current must flow to the WFC, because you cann´t load a capacity without current. Stan Meyer memo sais: 0.001A

first report,i test like old setup(*attached picture).but remove bulb.distilled water.

i build my bifilar air core,to replace 2 primary MOTS.

my bifilar spec =0.030 mH/1 wire.bifilar has 2 wires,wind coil like teslacoil on Cylindrical paper(10cm dia,30cm high).connect to cell bifilar type inductance canceling.
-length is 10 m,type is home electrical wire **attaches picture.  

i use AC voltage is 230rms,half wave rectify by diode 1000V50A,cell voltage is 95 V,DC Amps is 0.015A.
-this result is "has a little bubble same as old test" and i test with old setup to reference.Voltage and Amps is the same(95V 0.015A) and same bubble.

next i tested with bifilar type inductance coupling.
result is the same(95V 0.015A).

-i think "air core 2 type Bifilar coil or MOT is the same result in this condition(no PLL),all of this coil act like low pass filter,to make stable DC and bubble come from electrolysis".
with PLL may be making HIGH BEMF from coil.

-i tested with isolate transformer(big tranformer5A+) 220V to 110Vrms ,connect to cell bifilar type inductance canceling ,half wave rectify by diode 1000V50A,cell voltage is 50 V,DC Amps is 0.010A.have a little excite.
result(50V0.010A)=same bubble as 95V 0.015A(first test), and more times has more bubbles???

-i tested with SCR ,PLL,H1D11.
-mysetup use transformer 220V/110V --->half wave rectify by diode 1600V60A-->scr(incuded flyback diode 3A)--->diode1000V50A--->first choke(bifilar)-->WFC--->secondary choke(bifilar)-->1 Ohm30W resistor(measure Amps)-->transformer
result=on cell about 40VDC Amps 0.013A , has a bubble a little lower than upper test or equal.frequency about 900-2000HZ.

notice:
-H1D11 good operate below 4-5 KHZ.
-Mosfet good operate below 15-20 KHZ.
-NPN transistor good operate below 10 KHZ.
-SCR good operate below 10KHZ.

update
-from last test ,i think high voltage in short-time (ns)(BEMF) is the key.i changed some words because i tested reference test from connect to 12v battery to wfc.result is same happen with bifilar, isolated transformer and PLL.then it is electrolysis.mean the test cannot make BEMF(high voltage spike).

-good videos from Mike Poirier.BEMF and FREE ENERGY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvRfXdlZGwM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a63yAwaJvcQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CCYqIhWsv8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRswgZ15FHs

thanks
geenee

Quote from geenee on October 12th, 2012, 08:11 PM

update
-from last test ,i think high voltage in short-time (ns)(BEMF) is the key.i changed some words because i tested reference test from connect to 12v battery to wfc.result is same happen with bifilar, isolated transformer and PLL.then it is electrolysis.mean the test cannot make BEMF(high voltage spike).

Hi geenee,

You can make Back EMF when the complete negative electrode is full coated with H2 bubbles....

So you will need a little bit current to generate bubbles. Then the high peaks of the coil can be generated. I tried this yesterday. It works.
For the first tests und to understand the system, it is easier to use very tiny electrodes. I took 2mm of electrodes, than using very tiny current (<0,1A). When the negative electrode is full with H2 bubbles, the voltage can rise and the collapsing field of the coil can ionize the H2 bubbles.

 

Hi JP,
-i has a question about Multi Coil Spool Asembly,this unit use for WFC or injector?this is laminated steel core with air gap or not?
-Many casts i tested,something like a dead end.maybe Meyer use Tesla tech,unable to measure cause physics scient doesn't fit for this theory.like alternater dc and ac loop generate electricity.Meyer ever said about radiant energy or the Ether or impulse wave???

Hi Amsy,please explain that you tested,do you have a picture?or video?

thanks alots
geenee

Quote from geenee on October 17th, 2012, 11:24 PM

Hi JP,
-i has a question about Multi Coil Spool Asembly,this unit use for WFC or injector?this is laminated steel core with air gap or not?
-Many casts i tested,something like a dead end.maybe Meyer use Tesla tech,unable to measure cause physics scient doesn't fit for this theory.like alternater dc and ac loop generate electricity.Meyer ever said about radiant energy or the Ether or impulse wave???

Hi Amsy,please explain that you tested,do you have a picture?or video?

thanks alots
geenee

Hy, it looks similay to that video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QR_7tBHWQI
In my test, power consuption is nearly @300Watts. = 2kV and 0,15A with the MOT.

A spark plug is a good test device for the first tests. Because it has little electrodes and can handle high temperatures. It also works with demineralized water.:exclamation:

you can see on the colour of the arcs wich elements are ionized. The dark violett and ultra violett is belonging to the H2-> H + H reaction. Also whats happening in the Hydrogen Gas Gun of Meyer.

JP, how's the testing going?

Quote from Amsy on October 18th, 2012, 02:23 AM

Hy, it looks similay to that video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QR_7tBHWQI

Keep in mind Amsy, he is using a microwave oven power system to drive that spark plug which is probably close to 2000 watts.  If you run a PunchHHO cell at 166 amps and 12 volts brute force DC, you'd be getting on the order of 16 liters per minute of HHO and still 2000 watts total power consumption.  Sixteen LpM is a lot of gas.

Remember, it is the quantity of gas per watt of energy that we are trying to figure out how to maximize, with brute force being the baseline.  That is: Faraday 2.34 watts per liter per hour, or 140 watts per liter per minute.  So until you can surpass baseline, you haven't really found the trick, the method, the sweet spot, whatever you want to call it.  I don't mean to sound negative.  It's just that estimate, that check you do in your head with a math problem where you round everything and take an approximation to see if you are on target or not.

Quote from Dog-One on October 31st, 2012, 07:34 PM

Quote from Amsy on October 18th, 2012, 02:23 AM

Hy, it looks similay to that video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QR_7tBHWQI

Keep in mind Amsy, he is using a microwave oven power system to drive that spark plug which is probably close to 2000 watts.  If you run a PunchHHO cell at 166 amps and 12 volts brute force DC, you'd be getting on the order of 16 liters per minute of HHO and still 2000 watts total power consumption.  Sixteen LpM is a lot of gas.

Remember, it is the quantity of gas per watt of energy that we are trying to figure out how to maximize, with brute force being the baseline.  That is: Faraday 2.34 watts per liter per hour, or 140 watts per liter per minute.  So until you can surpass baseline, you haven't really found the trick, the method, the sweet spot, whatever you want to call it.  I don't mean to sound negative.  It's just that estimate, that check you do in your head with a math problem where you round everything and take an approximation to see if you are on target or not.

In fact -in my test- I consume 300 Watts of Power, not 2000 Watts. (Conventional microwave ovens have 2000Watts, don´t think so??)
The video should not show an alternative. The video should show what geenee was asking with the HV on water and should show when there are H2 bubbles on the cathode, that they can be ionized by the HV like in the Hydrogen Gas Gun. (UV arcs)
Because with a MOT you can have 2000-4000V on the water with little current. Like Meyer described that in his patent. So why not using a MOT??
The 4kV are stable. That was my point, because a lot of people searching for a circuit to hit with back EFM on the water or something like HV Peaks to the water cell. It would be easier to take the MOT....
There was no talk about LPM... only about feasibility.

Quote from geenee on October 17th, 2012, 11:24 PM

Hi JP,
-i has a question about Multi Coil Spool Asembly,this unit use for WFC or injector?this is laminated steel core with air gap or not?
-Many casts i tested,something like a dead end.maybe Meyer use Tesla tech,unable to measure cause physics scient doesn't fit for this theory.like alternater dc and ac loop generate electricity.Meyer ever said about radiant energy or the Ether or impulse wave???

Hi Amsy,please explain that you tested,do you have a picture?or video?

thanks alots
geenee

Sorry I can't really answer this.
I never saw the Multi Coil Spool or the injector system parts myself.
Most of those components were developed after my visits to Stan's lab.
Stan never talked about radiant energy to me.
We didn't talk much about deep technical things because I am not versed in electrical engineering. We talked more about business structures and promotional aspects.
I only understood the basic description of Electrical Polarization and Hydrogen Fracturing but know very little about components and the physics involved.
I have learned most of what I know over the years from experimenters and from arguing in the past in Google Groups.
My EE has now been experimenting with an Alex Petty basic circuit design modified a bit.
http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty/
His study of the coils has led him to wind a Fly-back type toroid coil and has gotten 10kV from it in testing.
He does say that "current is necessary" for the process but it is not being consumed. He believes that keeping the impedance of the water cell at Zero is the key to part of the process. His recent comments are:

"Our coil can be used as a flyback transformer (I may use it or I might build another one with a different ratio of windings). The main difference between a flyback transformer and a conventional transformer is in how the coil is driven (frequency and waveform). In the 8xA circuit diagram we got, the bifilar coil is not being used as a transformer of any kind - it's just in there as a high frequency choke, but the waveform coming as out of the 8xA circuit doesn't have any high frequency component - it's nothing more than a rectified 60Hz DC signal, which is why the waveform looks exactly the same on both sides of the coil as I showed you on the scope. So I honestly think that the Stan's Dream guy has misunderstood the function of the coil. Although that circuit does produce a lot of bubbles, it also gets warm as you saw. Based on everything I've seen so far (especially referencing the "Explosions in Water" paper) current is required to split water, but if the electric field is strong enough, the impedance of the water goes to zero, and a resonant condition can be created that will provide ample current to split the water, but with minimal input power."

Hopefully we can update and give more information and data after we get this circuit tested and put my 9 tube cell in the circuit.

Cheers,
JP

Quote from ddrum on October 31st, 2012, 06:12 PM

JP, how's the testing going?

Slowly.
My EE decided to get parts and make the basic Alex Petty design (modified) since he didn't think our 8xA from stansdream.com served the function we need for cold gas production. We know the 8Xa is not a circuit that will give us resonance but does give good gas production. It was heating up the coil and water cell so we are moving to what we hope is a better set up. My EE says the "Explosions in Water" paper is the best reference to get a grip on what Stan was doing. Meyer used this paper as reference to how his process worked.
We should be able to test our new circuit and coil on my 9 tube cell in a week or two. We are low budget. We are waiting to get access to a TIG welder this week to put tabs on bottom of outside exciter tubes. Then make one more cell part, assemble and do wiring.

Cheers,
JP

Quote from MeyerandMe on November 1st, 2012, 02:04 PM

Quote from geenee on October 17th, 2012, 11:24 PM

Hi JP,
-i has a question about Multi Coil Spool Asembly,this unit use for WFC or injector?this is laminated steel core with air gap or not?
-Many casts i tested,something like a dead end.maybe Meyer use Tesla tech,unable to measure cause physics scient doesn't fit for this theory.like alternater dc and ac loop generate electricity.Meyer ever said about radiant energy or the Ether or impulse wave???

Hi Amsy,please explain that you tested,do you have a picture?or video?

thanks alots
geenee

Sorry I can't really answer this.
I never saw the Multi Coil Spool or the injector system parts myself.
Most of those components were developed after my visits to Stan's lab.
Stan never talked about radiant energy to me.
We didn't talk much about deep technical things because I am not versed in electrical engineering. We talked more about business structures and promotional aspects.
I only understood the basic description of Electrical Polarization and Hydrogen Fracturing but know very little about components and the physics involved.
I have learned most of what I know over the years from experimenters and from arguing in the past in Google Groups.
My EE has now been experimenting with an Alex Petty basic circuit design modified a bit.
http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty/
His study of the coils has led him to wind a Fly-back type toroid coil and has gotten 10kV from it in testing.
He does say that "current is necessary" for the process but it is not being consumed. He believes that keeping the impedance of the water cell at Zero is the key to part of the process. His recent comments are:

"Our coil can be used as a flyback transformer (I may use it or I might build another one with a different ratio of windings). The main difference between a flyback transformer and a conventional transformer is in how the coil is driven (frequency and waveform). In the 8xA circuit diagram we got, the bifilar coil is not being used as a transformer of any kind - it's just in there as a high frequency choke, but the waveform coming as out of the 8xA circuit doesn't have any high frequency component - it's nothing more than a rectified 60Hz DC signal, which is why the waveform looks exactly the same on both sides of the coil as I showed you on the scope. So I honestly think that the Stan's Dream guy has misunderstood the function of the coil. Although that circuit does produce a lot of bubbles, it also gets warm as you saw. Based on everything I've seen so far (especially referencing the "Explosions in Water" paper) current is required to split water, but if the electric field is strong enough, the impedance of the water goes to zero, and a resonant condition can be created that will provide ample current to split the water, but with minimal input power."

Hopefully we can update and give more information and data after we get this circuit tested and put my 9 tube cell in the circuit.

Cheers,
JP

This sounds quite interesting actually.
Creating zero impedance inbetween the electrodes of the cell would indeed lead to
the need of extremely low voltage in order for a current to flow between the
electrodes.
This in turn wouldn't mean much heat being developed in the process, almost
all of the electric effect put into the cell would go into turning the water into HHO
and you'd get far more gas out of the cell compared to brute force electrolysis.
This to me would mean that atleast 2 of the prereqs for a 'genuine' Meyer WFC
would be fulfilled, which is no heat being generated in the process and a maximum
volumeflow of gas coming out from the cell.
The remaining 2 conditions, minimum current & maximum voltage, could for
instance be found in the formula for a step-down transformer,  where you put in
high voltage/low current and get low voltage/high current out of it.
Thanks for sharing.

Cool guys, good info.:cool::D:P

Thanks for answer,JP.
All of Stan's Chokes is Flyback transformer.Flyback mode does work with BEMF.i will learn more with flyback transformer.

thanks
geenee

Quote from Lynx on November 1st, 2012, 02:33 PM

This sounds quite interesting actually.
Creating zero impedance inbetween the electrodes of the cell would indeed lead to
the need of extremely low voltage in order for a current to flow between the
electrodes.
This in turn wouldn't mean much heat being developed in the process, almost
all of the electric effect put into the cell would go into turning the water into HHO
and you'd get far more gas out of the cell compared to brute force electrolysis.
This to me would mean that atleast 2 of the prereqs for a 'genuine' Meyer WFC
would be fulfilled, which is no heat being generated in the process and a maximum
volumeflow of gas coming out from the cell.
The remaining 2 conditions, minimum current & maximum voltage, could for
instance be found in the formula for a step-down transformer,  where you put in
high voltage/low current and get low voltage/high current out of it.
Thanks for sharing.

Hy
I can agree to this, the water acts like a negative resistor. When the voltage goes up, the resistance will go down. (Like in a neon bulb or fluorescentic lamps).
Unfortunately it produces high temperatures.
But in the second stage, when the density of the bubbles go to a high state, the resistance grows.

A year ago I made a test, which was in the course of US4798661.
At a critical point, the WFC turned into a Voltage source (prefix turned around the voltage-gauge). Look at the diagram, I think the point 11 and 12, was because of arcing between the tubes. It was a big tube so the amperage was very high (can also be done with smaler tubes and low current). Also it was very important that the current was going down again at point 11 and 12 :idea:

So maybe it is possible to create a state of controlled HHO production during "light" arcing.... I had no ohmic or inductive resistance in front of the WFC, better is to have a kind of resistance to controll the current to a smaler value like a resistance in a fluoroscentic lamp.  

The test did´t worked with destilled water, I had to put in a little bit of caliumhydroxy to make the water more conductive.  

Quote from MeyerandMe on November 1st, 2012, 02:04 PM

Quote from geenee on October 17th, 2012, 11:24 PM

Hi JP,
-i has a question about Multi Coil Spool Asembly,this unit use for WFC or injector?this is laminated steel core with air gap or not?
-Many casts i tested,something like a dead end.maybe Meyer use Tesla tech,unable to measure cause physics scient doesn't fit for this theory.like alternater dc and ac loop generate electricity.Meyer ever said about radiant energy or the Ether or impulse wave???

Hi Amsy,please explain that you tested,do you have a picture?or video?

thanks alots
geenee

Sorry I can't really answer this.
I never saw the Multi Coil Spool or the injector system parts myself.
Most of those components were developed after my visits to Stan's lab.
Stan never talked about radiant energy to me.
We didn't talk much about deep technical things because I am not versed in electrical engineering. We talked more about business structures and promotional aspects.
I only understood the basic description of Electrical Polarization and Hydrogen Fracturing but know very little about components and the physics involved.
I have learned most of what I know over the years from experimenters and from arguing in the past in Google Groups.
My EE has now been experimenting with an Alex Petty basic circuit design modified a bit.
http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty/
His study of the coils has led him to wind a Fly-back type toroid coil and has gotten 10kV from it in testing.
He does say that "current is necessary" for the process but it is not being consumed. He believes that keeping the impedance of the water cell at Zero is the key to part of the process. His recent comments are:

"Our coil can be used as a flyback transformer (I may use it or I might build another one with a different ratio of windings). The main difference between a flyback transformer and a conventional transformer is in how the coil is driven (frequency and waveform). In the 8xA circuit diagram we got, the bifilar coil is not being used as a transformer of any kind - it's just in there as a high frequency choke, but the waveform coming as out of the 8xA circuit doesn't have any high frequency component - it's nothing more than a rectified 60Hz DC signal, which is why the waveform looks exactly the same on both sides of the coil as I showed you on the scope. So I honestly think that the Stan's Dream guy has misunderstood the function of the coil. Although that circuit does produce a lot of bubbles, it also gets warm as you saw. Based on everything I've seen so far (especially referencing the "Explosions in Water" paper) current is required to split water, but if the electric field is strong enough, the impedance of the water goes to zero, and a resonant condition can be created that will provide ample current to split the water, but with minimal input power."

Hopefully we can update and give more information and data after we get this circuit tested and put my 9 tube cell in the circuit.

Cheers,
JP

Quote from ddrum on October 31st, 2012, 06:12 PM

JP, how's the testing going?

Slowly.
My EE decided to get parts and make the basic Alex Petty design (modified) since he didn't think our 8xA from stansdream.com served the function we need for cold gas production. We know the 8Xa is not a circuit that will give us resonance but does give good gas production. It was heating up the coil and water cell so we are moving to what we hope is a better set up. My EE says the "Explosions in Water" paper is the best reference to get a grip on what Stan was doing. Meyer used this paper as reference to how his process worked.
We should be able to test our new circuit and coil on my 9 tube cell in a week or two. We are low budget. We are waiting to get access to a TIG welder this week to put tabs on bottom of outside exciter tubes. Then make one more cell part, assemble and do wiring.

Cheers,
JP

Hy JP and all,today i'v been playing with alex crkt ,just the left 555 in the skem.,and Don was right .. this crkt and lawton's  does NOT output a 50% duty,because when you change the freq. you alter the duty...because you modify the resistance of the 2 10k rez(in alex skem)...I started the circuit build exactly and it was outputing 70% duty...so i put another 10k in series with the one between pin7 and pin2.....it corected the duty to 60%...then i lowered the outher 10k rez..put 4.7k and then gave 50% duty...so lawton=waist of time...that's why Stan used the decade counters on 9xa...to modify the freq without altering the duty.My 9xa is outputing distorted 50% duty signals ...and when i stop the freq selector the led still blinking...its a mess....i dont know what else to build...

JP, how's the testing going?[/quote]Slowly.
My EE decided to get parts and make the basic Alex Petty design (modified) since he didn't think our 8xA from stansdream.com served the function we need for cold gas production. We know the 8Xa is not a circuit that will give us resonance but does give good gas production. It was heating up the coil and water cell so we are moving to what we hope is a better set up. My EE says the "Explosions in Water" paper is the best reference to get a grip on what Stan was doing. Meyer used this paper as reference to how his process worked.
We should be able to test our new circuit and coil on my 9 tube cell in a week or two. We are low budget. We are waiting to get access to a TIG welder this week to put tabs on bottom of outside exciter tubes. Then make one more cell part, assemble and do wiring.

Cheers,
JP[/quote]Hy JP and all,today i'v been playing with alex crkt ,just the left 555 in the skem.,and Don was right .. this crkt and lawton's  does NOT output a 50% duty,because when you change the freq. you alter the duty...because you modify the resistance of the 2 10k rez(in alex skem)...I started the circuit build exactly and it was outputing 70% duty...so i put another 10k in series with the one between pin7 and pin2.....it corected the duty to 60%...then i lowered the outher 10k rez..put 4.7k and then gave 50% duty...so lawton=waist of time...that's why Stan used the decade counters on 9xa...to modify the freq without altering the duty.My 9xa is outputing distorted 50% duty signals ...and when i stop the freq selector the led still blinking...its a mess....i dont know what else to build...[/quote]I can't really tell you where to go from here.
I will ask my EE to comment.
He said he modified Alex's circuit but I don't know what he did or what results are yet.

Cheers,
JP

Quote from adys15 on November 2nd, 2012, 04:13 PM

Quote from MeyerandMe on November 1st, 2012, 02:04 PM

Quote from geenee on October 17th, 2012, 11:24 PM

Hi JP,
-i has a question about Multi Coil Spool Asembly,this unit use for WFC or injector?this is laminated steel core with air gap or not?
-Many casts i tested,something like a dead end.maybe Meyer use Tesla tech,unable to measure cause physics scient doesn't fit for this theory.like alternater dc and ac loop generate electricity.Meyer ever said about radiant energy or the Ether or impulse wave???

Hi Amsy,please explain that you tested,do you have a picture?or video?

thanks alots
geenee

Sorry I can't really answer this.
I never saw the Multi Coil Spool or the injector system parts myself.
Most of those components were developed after my visits to Stan's lab.
Stan never talked about radiant energy to me.
We didn't talk much about deep technical things because I am not versed in electrical engineering. We talked more about business structures and promotional aspects.
I only understood the basic description of Electrical Polarization and Hydrogen Fracturing but know very little about components and the physics involved.
I have learned most of what I know over the years from experimenters and from arguing in the past in Google Groups.
My EE has now been experimenting with an Alex Petty basic circuit design modified a bit.
http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty/
His study of the coils has led him to wind a Fly-back type toroid coil and has gotten 10kV from it in testing.
He does say that "current is necessary" for the process but it is not being consumed. He believes that keeping the impedance of the water cell at Zero is the key to part of the process. His recent comments are:

"Our coil can be used as a flyback transformer (I may use it or I might build another one with a different ratio of windings). The main difference between a flyback transformer and a conventional transformer is in how the coil is driven (frequency and waveform). In the 8xA circuit diagram we got, the bifilar coil is not being used as a transformer of any kind - it's just in there as a high frequency choke, but the waveform coming as out of the 8xA circuit doesn't have any high frequency component - it's nothing more than a rectified 60Hz DC signal, which is why the waveform looks exactly the same on both sides of the coil as I showed you on the scope. So I honestly think that the Stan's Dream guy has misunderstood the function of the coil. Although that circuit does produce a lot of bubbles, it also gets warm as you saw. Based on everything I've seen so far (especially referencing the "Explosions in Water" paper) current is required to split water, but if the electric field is strong enough, the impedance of the water goes to zero, and a resonant condition can be created that will provide ample current to split the water, but with minimal input power."

Hopefully we can update and give more information and data after we get this circuit tested and put my 9 tube cell in the circuit.

Cheers,
JP

Quote from ddrum on October 31st, 2012, 06:12 PM

JP, how's the testing going?

Slowly.
My EE decided to get parts and make the basic Alex Petty design (modified) since he didn't think our 8xA from stansdream.com served the function we need for cold gas production. We know the 8Xa is not a circuit that will give us resonance but does give good gas production. It was heating up the coil and water cell so we are moving to what we hope is a better set up. My EE says the "Explosions in Water" paper is the best reference to get a grip on what Stan was doing. Meyer used this paper as reference to how his process worked.
We should be able to test our new circuit and coil on my 9 tube cell in a week or two. We are low budget. We are waiting to get access to a TIG welder this week to put tabs on bottom of outside exciter tubes. Then make one more cell part, assemble and do wiring.

Cheers,
JP

Hy JP and all,today i'v been playing with alex crkt ,just the left 555 in the skem.,and Don was right .. this crkt and lawton's  does NOT output a 50% duty,because when you change the freq. you alter the duty...because you modify the resistance of the 2 10k rez(in alex skem)...I started the circuit build exactly and it was outputing 70% duty...so i put another 10k in series with the one between pin7 and pin2.....it corected the duty to 60%...then i lowered the outher 10k rez..put 4.7k and then gave 50% duty...so lawton=waist of time...that's why Stan used the decade counters on 9xa...to modify the freq without altering the duty.My 9xa is outputing distorted 50% duty signals ...and when i stop the freq selector the led still blinking...its a mess....i dont know what else to build...

50% duty cycle is used for step up voltage tranformer.555 timer can't make perfect 50%(can make 40%(7404) or 60%(no 7404)).when you have 50% perfect duty and use this drive gate of power mosfet or drive base of power transistor,duty cycle will change to 60-80% duty cycle.

best and easy solution is DAVELAWTON Circuit.but hardest thing is "resonant frequency of water molecule". i think "it inside gate frequency".and need precise frequency.

thanks
geenee

Maybe these posts contribute something on resonance and HHO production?


http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=539&pid=9252#pid9252


http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=754&pid=8688#pid8688

Quote from geenee on November 3rd, 2012, 06:11 AM

Quote from adys15 on November 2nd, 2012, 04:13 PM

Quote from MeyerandMe on November 1st, 2012, 02:04 PM

Quote from geenee on October 17th, 2012, 11:24 PM

Hi JP,
-i has a question about Multi Coil Spool Asembly,this unit use for WFC or injector?this is laminated steel core with air gap or not?
-Many casts i tested,something like a dead end.maybe Meyer use Tesla tech,unable to measure cause physics scient doesn't fit for this theory.like alternater dc and ac loop generate electricity.Meyer ever said about radiant energy or the Ether or impulse wave???

Hi Amsy,please explain that you tested,do you have a picture?or video?

thanks alots
geenee

Sorry I can't really answer this.
I never saw the Multi Coil Spool or the injector system parts myself.
Most of those components were developed after my visits to Stan's lab.
Stan never talked about radiant energy to me.
We didn't talk much about deep technical things because I am not versed in electrical engineering. We talked more about business structures and promotional aspects.
I only understood the basic description of Electrical Polarization and Hydrogen Fracturing but know very little about components and the physics involved.
I have learned most of what I know over the years from experimenters and from arguing in the past in Google Groups.
My EE has now been experimenting with an Alex Petty basic circuit design modified a bit.
http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty/
His study of the coils has led him to wind a Fly-back type toroid coil and has gotten 10kV from it in testing.
He does say that "current is necessary" for the process but it is not being consumed. He believes that keeping the impedance of the water cell at Zero is the key to part of the process. His recent comments are:

"Our coil can be used as a flyback transformer (I may use it or I might build another one with a different ratio of windings). The main difference between a flyback transformer and a conventional transformer is in how the coil is driven (frequency and waveform). In the 8xA circuit diagram we got, the bifilar coil is not being used as a transformer of any kind - it's just in there as a high frequency choke, but the waveform coming as out of the 8xA circuit doesn't have any high frequency component - it's nothing more than a rectified 60Hz DC signal, which is why the waveform looks exactly the same on both sides of the coil as I showed you on the scope. So I honestly think that the Stan's Dream guy has misunderstood the function of the coil. Although that circuit does produce a lot of bubbles, it also gets warm as you saw. Based on everything I've seen so far (especially referencing the "Explosions in Water" paper) current is required to split water, but if the electric field is strong enough, the impedance of the water goes to zero, and a resonant condition can be created that will provide ample current to split the water, but with minimal input power."

Hopefully we can update and give more information and data after we get this circuit tested and put my 9 tube cell in the circuit.

Cheers,
JP

Quote from ddrum on October 31st, 2012, 06:12 PM

JP, how's the testing going?

Slowly.
My EE decided to get parts and make the basic Alex Petty design (modified) since he didn't think our 8xA from stansdream.com served the function we need for cold gas production. We know the 8Xa is not a circuit that will give us resonance but does give good gas production. It was heating up the coil and water cell so we are moving to what we hope is a better set up. My EE says the "Explosions in Water" paper is the best reference to get a grip on what Stan was doing. Meyer used this paper as reference to how his process worked.
We should be able to test our new circuit and coil on my 9 tube cell in a week or two. We are low budget. We are waiting to get access to a TIG welder this week to put tabs on bottom of outside exciter tubes. Then make one more cell part, assemble and do wiring.

Cheers,
JP

Hy JP and all,today i'v been playing with alex crkt ,just the left 555 in the skem.,and Don was right .. this crkt and lawton's  does NOT output a 50% duty,because when you change the freq. you alter the duty...because you modify the resistance of the 2 10k rez(in alex skem)...I started the circuit build exactly and it was outputing 70% duty...so i put another 10k in series with the one between pin7 and pin2.....it corected the duty to 60%...then i lowered the outher 10k rez..put 4.7k and then gave 50% duty...so lawton=waist of time...that's why Stan used the decade counters on 9xa...to modify the freq without altering the duty.My 9xa is outputing distorted 50% duty signals ...and when i stop the freq selector the led still blinking...its a mess....i dont know what else to build...

50% duty cycle is used for step up voltage tranformer.555 timer can't make perfect 50%(can make 40%(7404) or 60%(no 7404)).when you have 50% perfect duty and use this drive gate of power mosfet or drive base of power transistor,duty cycle will change to 60-80% duty cycle.

best and easy solution is DAVELAWTON Circuit.but hardest thing is "resonant frequency of water molecule". i think "it inside gate frequency".and need precise frequency.

thanks
geenee

My EE says,
Hi J,
You can tell him that a 555 chip can be wired such that frequency and duty cycle (from near 0% to near 100%) can be controlled independently. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_timer_IC (Section on Astable setup and the use of a diode across R2).

Best,
B

Good info, keep it coming guy's, good work.:cool::D:P

Quote from MeyerandMe on November 3rd, 2012, 06:40 PM

Quote from geenee on November 3rd, 2012, 06:11 AM

Quote from adys15 on November 2nd, 2012, 04:13 PM

Quote from MeyerandMe on November 1st, 2012, 02:04 PM

Quote from geenee on October 17th, 2012, 11:24 PM

Hi JP,
-i has a question about Multi Coil Spool Asembly,this unit use for WFC or injector?this is laminated steel core with air gap or not?
-Many casts i tested,something like a dead end.maybe Meyer use Tesla tech,unable to measure cause physics scient doesn't fit for this theory.like alternater dc and ac loop generate electricity.Meyer ever said about radiant energy or the Ether or impulse wave???

Hi Amsy,please explain that you tested,do you have a picture?or video?

thanks alots
geenee

Sorry I can't really answer this.
I never saw the Multi Coil Spool or the injector system parts myself.
Most of those components were developed after my visits to Stan's lab.
Stan never talked about radiant energy to me.
We didn't talk much about deep technical things because I am not versed in electrical engineering. We talked more about business structures and promotional aspects.
I only understood the basic description of Electrical Polarization and Hydrogen Fracturing but know very little about components and the physics involved.
I have learned most of what I know over the years from experimenters and from arguing in the past in Google Groups.
My EE has now been experimenting with an Alex Petty basic circuit design modified a bit.
http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty/
His study of the coils has led him to wind a Fly-back type toroid coil and has gotten 10kV from it in testing.
He does say that "current is necessary" for the process but it is not being consumed. He believes that keeping the impedance of the water cell at Zero is the key to part of the process. His recent comments are:

"Our coil can be used as a flyback transformer (I may use it or I might build another one with a different ratio of windings). The main difference between a flyback transformer and a conventional transformer is in how the coil is driven (frequency and waveform). In the 8xA circuit diagram we got, the bifilar coil is not being used as a transformer of any kind - it's just in there as a high frequency choke, but the waveform coming as out of the 8xA circuit doesn't have any high frequency component - it's nothing more than a rectified 60Hz DC signal, which is why the waveform looks exactly the same on both sides of the coil as I showed you on the scope. So I honestly think that the Stan's Dream guy has misunderstood the function of the coil. Although that circuit does produce a lot of bubbles, it also gets warm as you saw. Based on everything I've seen so far (especially referencing the "Explosions in Water" paper) current is required to split water, but if the electric field is strong enough, the impedance of the water goes to zero, and a resonant condition can be created that will provide ample current to split the water, but with minimal input power."

Hopefully we can update and give more information and data after we get this circuit tested and put my 9 tube cell in the circuit.

Cheers,
JP

Quote from ddrum on October 31st, 2012, 06:12 PM

JP, how's the testing going?

Slowly.
My EE decided to get parts and make the basic Alex Petty design (modified) since he didn't think our 8xA from stansdream.com served the function we need for cold gas production. We know the 8Xa is not a circuit that will give us resonance but does give good gas production. It was heating up the coil and water cell so we are moving to what we hope is a better set up. My EE says the "Explosions in Water" paper is the best reference to get a grip on what Stan was doing. Meyer used this paper as reference to how his process worked.
We should be able to test our new circuit and coil on my 9 tube cell in a week or two. We are low budget. We are waiting to get access to a TIG welder this week to put tabs on bottom of outside exciter tubes. Then make one more cell part, assemble and do wiring.

Cheers,
JP

Hy JP and all,today i'v been playing with alex crkt ,just the left 555 in the skem.,and Don was right .. this crkt and lawton's  does NOT output a 50% duty,because when you change the freq. you alter the duty...because you modify the resistance of the 2 10k rez(in alex skem)...I started the circuit build exactly and it was outputing 70% duty...so i put another 10k in series with the one between pin7 and pin2.....it corected the duty to 60%...then i lowered the outher 10k rez..put 4.7k and then gave 50% duty...so lawton=waist of time...that's why Stan used the decade counters on 9xa...to modify the freq without altering the duty.My 9xa is outputing distorted 50% duty signals ...and when i stop the freq selector the led still blinking...its a mess....i dont know what else to build...

50% duty cycle is used for step up voltage tranformer.555 timer can't make perfect 50%(can make 40%(7404) or 60%(no 7404)).when you have 50% perfect duty and use this drive gate of power mosfet or drive base of power transistor,duty cycle will change to 60-80% duty cycle.

best and easy solution is DAVELAWTON Circuit.but hardest thing is "resonant frequency of water molecule". i think "it inside gate frequency".and need precise frequency.

thanks
geenee

My EE says,
Hi J,
You can tell him that a 555 chip can be wired such that frequency and duty cycle (from near 0% to near 100%) can be controlled independently. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_timer_IC (Section on Astable setup and the use of a diode across R2).

Best,
B

Across R2?in series with r2?or paralel?and which direction?

Quote from adys15 on November 4th, 2012, 08:01 AM

Across R2?in series with r2?or paralel?and which direction?

Quote

To achieve a duty cycle of less than 50% a diode (that is fast enough for the application) can be added in parallel with R2 towards the capacitor

So, the diode should be connected in parallel with R2, pointing "downwards" towards
the capacitor C in the picture there,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/555_Astable_Diagram.svg/220px-555_Astable_Diagram.svg.png

Quote from Lynx on November 4th, 2012, 09:53 AM

Quote from adys15 on November 4th, 2012, 08:01 AM

Across R2?in series with r2?or paralel?and which direction?

Quote

To achieve a duty cycle of less than 50% a diode (that is fast enough for the application) can be added in parallel with R2 towards the capacitor

So, the diode should be connected in parallel with R2, pointing "downwards" towards
the capacitor C in the picture there,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/555_Astable_Diagram.svg/220px-555_Astable_Diagram.svg.png

So thats why lawton uses the diodes...Thanks verry much JP,Linx,and all,i will try...Cheers!