Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP

adys15

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #25, on October 1st, 2012, 03:46 AM »
Quote from MeyerandMe on October 1st, 2012, 03:05 AM
I'm going to post this here for experiment and historical purposes.
These are the data sheet and sketch of the basic Polarization Process that I am positive Stan gave to whoever Danforth was in Sri Lanka. This was posted before Meyer died, maybe n 1997. I know Meyer traveled to Sri Lanka.
This was the most basic and replicatable circuit design I believe Stan left to anyone.

I am sure he did this because as you can read, the experimenter could hardly keep up with Stan in development but Stan knew this and gave it in case he never lived another week.  He died in 1998. Stan was sharing the basics of his process world wide.  
Anyways, the circuit picture hasn't been on the web for years. The data sheet was but not the design.
So there you go....
Carry on,
JP
Verry interesting JP but verry hard to understand the values,do you have that schematic on paper?or just in that form?maybe you could to a hi-rez. scaning.Thanks,Ady


MeyerandMe

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #27, on October 1st, 2012, 06:32 AM »
Quote from adys15 on October 1st, 2012, 03:46 AM
Quote from MeyerandMe on October 1st, 2012, 03:05 AM
I'm going to post this here for experiment and historical purposes.
These are the data sheet and sketch of the basic Polarization Process that I am positive Stan gave to whoever Danforth was in Sri Lanka. This was posted before Meyer died, maybe n 1997. I know Meyer traveled to Sri Lanka.
This was the most basic and replicatable circuit design I believe Stan left to anyone.

I am sure he did this because as you can read, the experimenter could hardly keep up with Stan in development but Stan knew this and gave it in case he never lived another week.  He died in 1998. Stan was sharing the basics of his process world wide.  
Anyways, the circuit picture hasn't been on the web for years. The data sheet was but not the design.
So there you go....
Carry on,
JP
Verry interesting JP but verry hard to understand the values,do you have that schematic on paper?or just in that form?maybe you could to a hi-rez. scaning.Thanks,Ady
Sorry, that is the only file and resolution I have.
I know it is hard to read.
We had a discussion to decifer it.
I don't know if I can find it in old newsgroups groups.
I tried to find the drawing specs but had no luck.
I don't think it's as easy as getting an 8xA board or building one with a self wound inductor.
Cheers,
JP

geenee

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #28, on October 1st, 2012, 07:24 AM »Last edited on October 1st, 2012, 01:55 PM by geenee
i thinks "talk to Russ".

Russ can crack this diagrams.

valyonpz1's youtube user.he showed great wave forms(look like Stan wave form or not??) but he didn't explain about his works.
i thinks "valyonpz1 is you but not ,sorry ".

thanks very much for input JP
geenee

Lynx

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #29, on October 1st, 2012, 03:07 PM »
Thanks for pointing me to electro-tech-online.com, JP.
This makes so much sense to me regarding the "only voltage no current" approach to the WFC, here's a copy and paste
from a thread over there, http://www.electro-tech-online.com/alternative-energy/42388-stanley-meyers-zero-point-energy-8.html
Quote
@All
Maybe it's time for a lesson in basic electronics  The only problem with Meyer's technology is that nobody has a clue as to what he was doing in his circuit, so let's walk through it. In the circuit below we have a pulsed DC current input to a toroidal core transformer, the secondaries of this transformer form a resonant series circuit. The resonant series "working circuit" consisting of the secondary transformer windings, blocking diode, a resonant charging choke,water cell capacitor and variable inductor. When people look at this circuit they see what they want to see, that is what there textbooks have told them they should see, but that is not all there is. So let's see what really happens based on facts I have learned from actually building the circuit.
First a DC pulse charges the toroidal transformer primary inducing a higher potential voltage in the transformer secondaries. Since the primary current is pulsed DC the secondary current is also pulsed DC, the secondary windings produce a current flow through the blocking diode then when the primary current is abruptly stopped an inductive discharge (flyback current) is discharged through the blocking diode from the secondaries. Many people consider the inductive discharge and other reactive components as having no power in them but this is only because they lack the understanding of how these reactive components should be utilized. The inductive discharge would normally fly right through this circuit with little effect if it not for one component ---the resonant charging choke. I wonder why it is named resonant "charging" choke? this would imply it is charged by something and it is charged by the inductive discharge from the transformer secondaries. The resonant charging choke is Tesla patent 512340 "coil for electromagnets" and is a bifiliar wound coil. This coil does one thing-----it stores the high voltage inductive discharge from the transformer secondaries as capacitance between the conductor windings and this capacitance also cancels the inductance of the coil. This is one point many people cannot seem to understand, If the capacitance of this coil constitutes energy stored in the form of an electrostatic field then this capacitance must discharge when the circuit potential drops but the capacitance is not polarized externally  ----so where does it discharge to?. The blocking diode ensures the resonant charging choke current discharges in the same direction as the current that charged it in the first place. So here we have a situation where the induced current in the secondaries charges the resonant charging choke and the water cell capacitor, next the resonant charging choke discharges with an equal current in the same direction through the water cell capacitor. The resonant charging choke bifiliar would coil is an integral part of what Tesla refered to as a "magnifying effect" whereby the potential of the circuit does as much "work" as the current. Next we have a variable inductor after the water cell, this variable inductance is designed to tune the circuit. A variable inductor stores energy in the form of a magnetic field, this inductance can act just like a flywheel. That is the inductance will oppose a rising current by producing a magnetic field and it will oppose a falling current by raising its voltage to maintain current----just like a flywheel uses momentum to resist change. That is the purpose of the variable inductance---to maintain current flow in one direction through the circuit which includes the water cell capacitor. I hope you are starting to see what is happening in this circuit, there is no overunity---that is impossible, there is no magical zero point energy appearing out of nowhere, there are no fairies sprinkling magical pixie dust to power the circuit. There are know and proven facts, action and reaction, in this case the facts are that the inductive discharge current from the transformer secondaries has never been utilized in an efficient manner. Each DC input pulse will raise both circuit potential and current simultaneously, as such the energy or "work" performed in the working circuit will always be greater than the input energy.
It is said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So why do you do the same things over and over, building your circuits in exactly the same way, it should be obvious you will never achieve different nor better results.

Regards I know how crazy this sounds Im not stupid nor delusional ---most of the time LOL. You know exactly what it means.
I will break the basic effect down in terms I hope everyone can understand. The resonant charging choke does not utilize EM induction(ie.. a magnetic field) it utilizes electrostatic induction(the electric field) like a capacitor.
If you take a balloon and rub it in your hair the balloon becomes electrostatically charged through friction. If you bring another balloon near the original one there will be an attractive force between the two because the charged balloon induces an opposite charge in the approaching balloon. The laws of electrostatic induction state the originally charged balloon will NOT lose charge but will charge the other balloon in an opposite sense---google electrostatic induction for yourself if you don't believe this. We can say the two balloons are now a capacitor---two oppositely charged objects(conductors) with a dielectric between them (air). There is also an issue of "net" charge whereby electrons must move to the approaching balloon from a source but that is not an issue here.
There is no difference between the balloons and metal conductors such as copper wires the only thing that matters in surface area. The two separated balloons form a capacitor, two metal plates can form a capacitor or two copper wires separated by a dielectric(the insulation). Physics states one object can charge another in an opposite sense and the object inducing the charge will not lose charge thus it has lost no energy. Read whatever you wish into this, It is a scientific fact and I did not make this up for your benefit.
The main problem is that nobody other than Tesla has bothered to understand what might happen if a very high voltage(electrostatic) short duration pulse were applied to two conductors separated (a capacitor) by there insulation( the dielectric). Also what happens when the two plates are connected in series? Potential moves on the surface of the conductors before one milliamp of current moves so there is an instant when the two separated conductors wound one the same core have a huge potential difference between them. One conductor has a surface charge in motion but the next winding ahead of it has yet to be charged thus an opposite charge is induced in it creating a potential difference, when the circuit voltage drops this inter-winding capacitance is discharged as an electric current. But the current is a product of electrostatic induction not a changing magnetic field as in EM induction. In which case--- the source of the charge(the line voltage)inducing an opposite charge in the secondary windings can lose no energy in the process" as physics states. Only extremely short duration/high voltage pulses manifest this effect, such as high frequency square waves at high voltage which is exactly what Meyer's was using in his working circuit.
I must confess that I haven't fully checked out the resonant charging choke bifiliar would coil, I'm getting more and more
convinced though that it holds the secret to a fully working Stanley Meyer WFC.
I made a PDF of this.


Jeff Nading

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #31, on October 1st, 2012, 07:35 PM »
Quote from MeyerandMe on September 27th, 2012, 10:06 PM
Quote from Dog-One on September 27th, 2012, 06:12 PM
JP,

How much can you tell me about this little dude?
This is the RCC, Resonant Charging Choke, as shown in the Memo 420 sketch attached.
The specs are hard a bit to see in the Meyer sketch attached.

From my notes with my another experimenter:

8XA Resonant Charging Choke Specs /Stan’s sketch
Coils are 18 ga 4 rows 14 turns each wire 28 turns total per row
EC 52 core 76Ouh per coil
(Start wires go to cell 9 all wires come out one end of coil)
Finish wires go to pulsing circuit

The coil was bifilar (two wires wrapped at same time, beside each other).
The gauge I used was 134 Turns of 22AWG magnet wire, but 18 is probably better, only because it can handle more current.
(Mine is 18 gage, JP)
I wound mine (experimenter) all at once, but Stan's oriignal (see estate photos) was wound in rows, with cardboard from cereal boxes in between each.
If you look at the old style HV transformers in tv's, sometimes you will see the windings separated like this also.
The EC52 cores will work great - I simply used a ferrite core from an old TV.
(Mine is referenced in the parts list)

Wind it as per this nice video from:
http://www.stanleymeyerwebshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=79
Link at lower right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG0hhJT-5LQ&list=UUEGe7GasoADRNz6wfHM91sQ&index=1&feature=plcp


134 Turns of AWG22 magnet wire
L1 = 768uH, .5ohms
L2 = 760.2uH, .5ohms

Without ferrite core:
L1= 283.8uH
L2 = 281.1uH

If you look at the documentation, you will see that Stan says the longer the coil length (choke), the higher voltage will be applied to the cell.
(End of notes)

I don't know my turn count as I didn't wind my coil.
My Tech Assistant did.
I may be a turn or two short but will still be in the ballpark.
See attached photos of the tool and winding.

The inductance needs to simply to match or be greater than the capacitance of any given cell array.

Hope this does it for you.
Carry on.
JP
This clears up much for me, thanks JP.:cool::P

geenee

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #32, on October 1st, 2012, 08:17 PM »Last edited on October 1st, 2012, 08:37 PM by geenee
Great, Lynx.
let's make electrostatic generator!!!(8XA) to test that.and don't forget the lastest Meyer's circuit from Sri lanka.

thanks
geenee


Lynx

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #33, on October 2nd, 2012, 12:06 AM »Last edited on October 2nd, 2012, 02:37 AM by Lynx
Quote from geenee on October 1st, 2012, 08:17 PM
Great, Lynx.
let's make electrostatic generator!!!(8XA) to test that.and don't forget the lastest Meyer's circuit from Sri lanka.

thanks
geenee
Well I actually do believe that this electro-tech-online explanation of 'no current only voltage' offers many
interesting theories on how this thing could work, regardless of whatever you choose to call it.
Anyway I'll just stick to what Stanley Meyer had to offer for the time being and wander off to Sri lanka or
wherever if I still won't get any interesting results :cool:

Edit: I actually missed that Sri lanka document, thanks for the heads up, it's always interesting to see new documents of Stan's work.
I don't see much on the secondary though, unless it's explained in what's written at the the top of the page (7 inch soft iron bar, sections A & B), it's kinda hard to see what's written there.
But thanks anyway, I appreciate it.

adys15

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #34, on October 2nd, 2012, 03:11 AM »Last edited on October 2nd, 2012, 03:57 AM by adys15
Hy all!Can anyone could advise me how to build a gating circuit?In my country i  cannot find 74ls122 for Stan's gating,but only 74ls123.Note:i have the lawton pwm but is based on capacitor discharge to create gating space so I don't get a perfect signal.anyone knows how to adapt the 74123?Thanks in advance!Ady
Tony gave me this schematic(see att) i built it but it doesn't work.I put a normal cap,between pins,i don't have a variable one.I think the 5v should not be on these pins on 7402,besides 7 and 14.Anyway can anyone corect the schematic or clarify?

Amsy

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #35, on October 2nd, 2012, 09:07 AM »Last edited on October 2nd, 2012, 09:52 AM by Amsy
Quote from MeyerandMe on October 1st, 2012, 03:05 AM
I'm going to post this here for experiment and historical purposes.
These are the data sheet and sketch of the basic Polarization Process that I am positive Stan gave to whoever Danforth was in Sri Lanka. This was posted before Meyer died, maybe n 1997. I know Meyer traveled to Sri Lanka.
This was the most basic and replicatable circuit design I believe Stan left to anyone.

I am sure he did this because as you can read, the experimenter could hardly keep up with Stan in development but Stan knew this and gave it in case he never lived another week.  He died in 1998. Stan was sharing the basics of his process world wide.  
Anyways, the circuit picture hasn't been on the web for years. The data sheet was but not the design.
So there you go....
Carry on,
JP
hi. the sheet shows quite similar circuit to 8xa. difference is there is only one L instead of bifilar L, and a big capacity for smoothing the input voltage.
6 resistors show tube cell with water. 22.5 ohm of overall resistance. 60 watts. I x I x R = P => I = sqrt{P\R} = 1.63A => input voltage = I x R = 36.7V
so what is the hho production of this sri lanka prototype.

it looks like a demo cell. but why is this a prototype?? in year 1997, should be more than prototype after 20 years of research.

also thank you for your link to herethikal builders, this link explains very very good whats happen: key technology is to ionize the h2, to create H2 electrolyses is needed. I think electrical polarization process isnot more than electrolyses of citywater without electrolyte. to perform patents you need a "special" name because you cannot patent electrolyses. also reason why stan let no one measure energy input.
maybe someone knows it better and find out what electrical polaisation process is. ... only my thoughts...

imho the energy comes from transforming mass into energy. collecting electrons out of H2 in big amounts brings high cop output.

tags: hydrogen fracturing process, hydrogen gas gun, electron extraction circuit, UV light, ionisation H2

the demo cell has no cop >1 i think. only in combination with gas gun the system getting cop >1. imho
advantage: using citywater ... no electrolyte

sorry for simple words, was writing with cellphone

regards

MeyerandMe

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #36, on October 2nd, 2012, 02:01 PM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on October 1st, 2012, 07:35 PM
Quote from MeyerandMe on September 27th, 2012, 10:06 PM
Quote from Dog-One on September 27th, 2012, 06:12 PM
JP,

How much can you tell me about this little dude?
This is the RCC, Resonant Charging Choke, as shown in the Memo 420 sketch attached.
The specs are hard a bit to see in the Meyer sketch attached.

From my notes with my another experimenter:

8XA Resonant Charging Choke Specs /Stan’s sketch
Coils are 18 ga 4 rows 14 turns each wire 28 turns total per row
EC 52 core 76Ouh per coil
(Start wires go to cell 9 all wires come out one end of coil)
Finish wires go to pulsing circuit

The coil was bifilar (two wires wrapped at same time, beside each other).
The gauge I used was 134 Turns of 22AWG magnet wire, but 18 is probably better, only because it can handle more current.
(Mine is 18 gage, JP)
I wound mine (experimenter) all at once, but Stan's oriignal (see estate photos) was wound in rows, with cardboard from cereal boxes in between each.
If you look at the old style HV transformers in tv's, sometimes you will see the windings separated like this also.
The EC52 cores will work great - I simply used a ferrite core from an old TV.
(Mine is referenced in the parts list)

Wind it as per this nice video from:
http://www.stanleymeyerwebshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=79
Link at lower right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG0hhJT-5LQ&list=UUEGe7GasoADRNz6wfHM91sQ&index=1&feature=plcp


134 Turns of AWG22 magnet wire
L1 = 768uH, .5ohms
L2 = 760.2uH, .5ohms

Without ferrite core:
L1= 283.8uH
L2 = 281.1uH

If you look at the documentation, you will see that Stan says the longer the coil length (choke), the higher voltage will be applied to the cell.
(End of notes)

I don't know my turn count as I didn't wind my coil.
My Tech Assistant did.
I may be a turn or two short but will still be in the ballpark.
See attached photos of the tool and winding.

The inductance needs to simply to match or be greater than the capacitance of any given cell array.

Hope this does it for you.
Carry on.
JP
This clears up much for me, thanks JP.:cool::P
Check out this discussion Jeff.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6227-stan-meyers-secret-preventing-electrolysis-3.html

This cool paper is in a link.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/wfc/WFCexpl.pdf
“Where does the energy come from?
Effectively the water molecule is marginally unstable in water solution and is constantly acting as a “radioactive’ molecule tossing out H+ AN OH- ions. The energy of the process comes from the formation of these ions.”

I can try to attach:
hmmm. not working.
I says pdf but saved as ??
Oh well...

Cheers,
JP



geenee

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #37, on October 3rd, 2012, 12:41 AM »Last edited on October 3rd, 2012, 12:41 AM by geenee
Hi JP.

About your 8XA WFC unit.That can use with distilled water???i think "if i make many bubbles from distilled water mean the right way to Meyer tech(no electrolysis)".My last test result with distilled water is electrolysis because amps leaks in linear when increase voltage.

Thanks
geenee

MeyerandMe

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #38, on October 3rd, 2012, 11:38 AM »
Quote from geenee on October 3rd, 2012, 12:41 AM
Hi JP.

About your 8XA WFC unit.That can use with distilled water???i think "if i make many bubbles from distilled water mean the right way to Meyer tech(no electrolysis)".My last test result with distilled water is electrolysis because amps leaks in linear when increase voltage.

Thanks
geenee
We haven't tried distilled water yet.
We are using tap water so far.
You definitely need to stop the amps.

Jeff Nading

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #39, on October 3rd, 2012, 01:14 PM »
Quote from MeyerandMe on October 2nd, 2012, 02:01 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on October 1st, 2012, 07:35 PM
Quote from MeyerandMe on September 27th, 2012, 10:06 PM
Quote from Dog-One on September 27th, 2012, 06:12 PM
JP,

How much can you tell me about this little dude?
This is the RCC, Resonant Charging Choke, as shown in the Memo 420 sketch attached.
The specs are hard a bit to see in the Meyer sketch attached.

From my notes with my another experimenter:

8XA Resonant Charging Choke Specs /Stan’s sketch
Coils are 18 ga 4 rows 14 turns each wire 28 turns total per row
EC 52 core 76Ouh per coil
(Start wires go to cell 9 all wires come out one end of coil)
Finish wires go to pulsing circuit

The coil was bifilar (two wires wrapped at same time, beside each other).
The gauge I used was 134 Turns of 22AWG magnet wire, but 18 is probably better, only because it can handle more current.
(Mine is 18 gage, JP)
I wound mine (experimenter) all at once, but Stan's oriignal (see estate photos) was wound in rows, with cardboard from cereal boxes in between each.
If you look at the old style HV transformers in tv's, sometimes you will see the windings separated like this also.
The EC52 cores will work great - I simply used a ferrite core from an old TV.
(Mine is referenced in the parts list)

Wind it as per this nice video from:
http://www.stanleymeyerwebshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=79
Link at lower right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG0hhJT-5LQ&list=UUEGe7GasoADRNz6wfHM91sQ&index=1&feature=plcp


134 Turns of AWG22 magnet wire
L1 = 768uH, .5ohms
L2 = 760.2uH, .5ohms

Without ferrite core:
L1= 283.8uH
L2 = 281.1uH

If you look at the documentation, you will see that Stan says the longer the coil length (choke), the higher voltage will be applied to the cell.
(End of notes)

I don't know my turn count as I didn't wind my coil.
My Tech Assistant did.
I may be a turn or two short but will still be in the ballpark.
See attached photos of the tool and winding.

The inductance needs to simply to match or be greater than the capacitance of any given cell array.

Hope this does it for you.
Carry on.
JP
This clears up much for me, thanks JP.:cool::P
Check out this discussion Jeff.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6227-stan-meyers-secret-preventing-electrolysis-3.html

This cool paper is in a link.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/wfc/WFCexpl.pdf
“Where does the energy come from?
Effectively the water molecule is marginally unstable in water solution and is constantly acting as a “radioactive’ molecule tossing out H+ AN OH- ions. The energy of the process comes from the formation of these ions.”

I can try to attach:
hmmm. not working.
I says pdf but saved as ??
Oh well...

Cheers,
JP
Yes I have seen this before.:D

MeyerandMe

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #40, on October 3rd, 2012, 06:02 PM »
Came across this old post.
From:

http://www.electro-tech-online.com/alternative-energy/42388-stanley-meyers-zero-point-energy-8.html

@All
Maybe it's time for a lesson in basic electronics The only problem
with Meyer's technology is that nobody has a clue as to what he was
doing in his circuit, so let's walk through it. In the circuit below
we have a pulsed DC current input to a toroidal core transformer, the
secondaries of this transformer form a resonant series circuit. The
resonant series "working circuit" consisting of the secondary
transformer windings, blocking diode, a resonant charging choke,water
cell capacitor and variable inductor. When people look at this circuit
they see what they want to see, that is what there textbooks have told
them they should see, but that is not all there is. So let's see what
really happens based on facts I have learned from actually building
the circuit.
First a DC pulse charges the toroidal transformer primary inducing a
higher potential voltage in the transformer secondaries. Since the
primary current is pulsed DC the secondary current is also pulsed DC,
the secondary windings produce a current flow through the blocking
diode then when the primary current is abruptly stopped an inductive
discharge (flyback current) is discharged through the blocking diode
from the secondaries. Many people consider the inductive discharge and
other reactive components as having no power in them but this is only
because they lack the understanding of how these reactive components
should be utilized. The inductive discharge would normally fly right
through this circuit with little effect if it not for one component ---
the resonant charging choke. I wonder why it is named resonant
"charging" choke? this would imply it is charged by something and it
is charged by the inductive discharge from the transformer
secondaries. The resonant charging choke is Tesla patent 512340 "coil
for electromagnets" and is a bifiliar wound coil. This coil does one
thing-----it stores the high voltage inductive discharge from the
transformer secondaries as capacitance between the conductor windings
and this capacitance also cancels the inductance of the coil. This is
one point many people cannot seem to understand, If the capacitance of
this coil constitutes energy stored in the form of an electrostatic
field then this capacitance must discharge when the circuit potential
drops but the capacitance is not polarized externally ----so where
does it discharge to?. The blocking diode ensures the resonant
charging choke current discharges in the same direction as the current
that charged it in the first place. So here we have a situation where
the induced current in the secondaries charges the resonant charging
choke and the water cell capacitor, next the resonant charging choke
discharges with an equal current in the same direction through the
water cell capacitor. The resonant charging choke bifiliar would coil
is an integral part of what Tesla refered to as a "magnifying effect"
whereby the potential of the circuit does as much "work" as the
current. Next we have a variable inductor after the water cell, this
variable inductance is designed to tune the circuit. A variable
inductor stores energy in the form of a magnetic field, this
inductance can act just like a flywheel. That is the inductance will
oppose a rising current by producing a magnetic field and it will
oppose a falling current by raising its voltage to maintain current----
just like a flywheel uses momentum to resist change. That is the
purpose of the variable inductance---to maintain current flow in one
direction through the circuit which includes the water cell capacitor.
I hope you are starting to see what is happening in this circuit,
there is no overunity---that is impossible, there is no magical zero
point energy appearing out of nowhere, there are no fairies sprinkling
magical pixie dust to power the circuit. There are know and proven
facts, action and reaction, in this case the facts are that the
inductive discharge current from the transformer secondaries has never
been utilized in an efficient manner. Each DC input pulse will raise
both circuit potential and current simultaneously, as such the energy
or "work" performed in the working circuit will always be greater than
the input energy.
It is said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing
over and over again and expecting different results. So why do you do
the same things over and over, building your circuits in exactly the
same way, it should be obvious you will never achieve different nor
better results.
Regards
AC
Attached Images
meyers.jpg (10.4 KB, 97 views)
:end quote:


Cheers,
JP

Jeff Nading

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #41, on October 3rd, 2012, 06:20 PM »Last edited on October 3rd, 2012, 06:34 PM by Jeff Nading
Quote from MeyerandMe on October 3rd, 2012, 06:02 PM
Came across this old post.
From:

http://www.electro-tech-online.com/alternative-energy/42388-stanley-meyers-zero-point-energy-8.html

@All
Maybe it's time for a lesson in basic electronics The only problem
with Meyer's technology is that nobody has a clue as to what he was
doing in his circuit, so let's walk through it. In the circuit below
we have a pulsed DC current input to a toroidal core transformer, the
secondaries of this transformer form a resonant series circuit. The
resonant series "working circuit" consisting of the secondary
transformer windings, blocking diode, a resonant charging choke,water
cell capacitor and variable inductor. When people look at this circuit
they see what they want to see, that is what there textbooks have told
them they should see, but that is not all there is. So let's see what
really happens based on facts I have learned from actually building
the circuit.
First a DC pulse charges the toroidal transformer primary inducing a
higher potential voltage in the transformer secondaries. Since the
primary current is pulsed DC the secondary current is also pulsed DC,
the secondary windings produce a current flow through the blocking
diode then when the primary current is abruptly stopped an inductive
discharge (flyback current) is discharged through the blocking diode
from the secondaries. Many people consider the inductive discharge and
other reactive components as having no power in them but this is only
because they lack the understanding of how these reactive components
should be utilized. The inductive discharge would normally fly right
through this circuit with little effect if it not for one component ---
the resonant charging choke. I wonder why it is named resonant
"charging" choke? this would imply it is charged by something and it
is charged by the inductive discharge from the transformer
secondaries. The resonant charging choke is Tesla patent 512340 "coil
for electromagnets" and is a bifiliar wound coil. This coil does one
thing-----it stores the high voltage inductive discharge from the
transformer secondaries as capacitance between the conductor windings
and this capacitance also cancels the inductance of the coil. This is
one point many people cannot seem to understand, If the capacitance of
this coil constitutes energy stored in the form of an electrostatic
field then this capacitance must discharge when the circuit potential
drops but the capacitance is not polarized externally ----so where
does it discharge to?. The blocking diode ensures the resonant
charging choke current discharges in the same direction as the current
that charged it in the first place. So here we have a situation where
the induced current in the secondaries charges the resonant charging
choke and the water cell capacitor, next the resonant charging choke
discharges with an equal current in the same direction through the
water cell capacitor. The resonant charging choke bifiliar would coil
is an integral part of what Tesla refered to as a "magnifying effect"
whereby the potential of the circuit does as much "work" as the
current. Next we have a variable inductor after the water cell, this
variable inductance is designed to tune the circuit. A variable
inductor stores energy in the form of a magnetic field, this
inductance can act just like a flywheel. That is the inductance will
oppose a rising current by producing a magnetic field and it will
oppose a falling current by raising its voltage to maintain current----
just like a flywheel uses momentum to resist change. That is the
purpose of the variable inductance---to maintain current flow in one
direction through the circuit which includes the water cell capacitor.
I hope you are starting to see what is happening in this circuit,
there is no overunity---that is impossible, there is no magical zero
point energy appearing out of nowhere, there are no fairies sprinkling
magical pixie dust to power the circuit. There are know and proven
facts, action and reaction, in this case the facts are that the
inductive discharge current from the transformer secondaries has never
been utilized in an efficient manner. Each DC input pulse will raise
both circuit potential and current simultaneously, as such the energy
or "work" performed in the working circuit will always be greater than
the input energy.
It is said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing
over and over again and expecting different results. So why do you do
the same things over and over, building your circuits in exactly the
same way, it should be obvious you will never achieve different nor
better results.
Regards
AC
Attached Images
meyers.jpg (10.4 KB, 97 views)
:end quote:


Cheers,
JP
Hi JP, this sounds good and very workable, but can someone here on our forum draw up a schematic showing this ? :D Also the meyers.jpg photo does not work, have to belong to the forum above in this post to view the photo, thanks Jeff.:D

Jeff Nading

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #42, on October 3rd, 2012, 06:28 PM »
Here is a continuing excerpt from the same forum as above from allcanadian on #77 post, here http://www.electro-tech-online.com/alternative-energy/42388-stanley-meyers-zero-point-energy-8.html

 I know how crazy this sounds Im not stupid nor delusional ---most of the time LOL. You know exactly what it means.
I will break the basic effect down in terms I hope everyone can understand. The resonant charging choke does not utilize EM induction(ie.. a magnetic field) it utilizes electrostatic induction(the electric field) like a capacitor.
If you take a balloon and rub it in your hair the balloon becomes electrostatically charged through friction. If you bring another balloon near the original one there will be an attractive force between the two because the charged balloon induces an opposite charge in the approaching balloon. The laws of electrostatic induction state the originally charged balloon will NOT lose charge but will charge the other balloon in an opposite sense---google electrostatic induction for yourself if you don't believe this. We can say the two balloons are now a capacitor---two oppositely charged objects(conductors) with a dielectric between them (air). There is also an issue of "net" charge whereby electrons must move to the approaching balloon from a source but that is not an issue here.
There is no difference between the balloons and metal conductors such as copper wires the only thing that matters in surface area. The two separated balloons form a capacitor, two metal plates can form a capacitor or two copper wires separated by a dielectric(the insulation). Physics states one object can charge another in an opposite sense and the object inducing the charge will not lose charge thus it has lost no energy. Read whatever you wish into this, It is a scientific fact and I did not make this up for your benefit.
The main problem is that nobody other than Tesla has bothered to understand what might happen if a very high voltage(electrostatic) short duration pulse were applied to two conductors separated (a capacitor) by there insulation( the dielectric). Also what happens when the two plates are connected in series? Potential moves on the surface of the conductors before one milliamp of current moves so there is an instant when the two separated conductors wound one the same core have a huge potential difference between them. One conductor has a surface charge in motion but the next winding ahead of it has yet to be charged thus an opposite charge is induced in it creating a potential difference, when the circuit voltage drops this inter-winding capacitance is discharged as an electric current. But the current is a product of electrostatic induction not a changing magnetic field as in EM induction. In which case--- the source of the charge(the line voltage)inducing an opposite charge in the secondary windings can lose no energy in the process" as physics states. Only extremely short duration/high voltage pulses manifest this effect, such as high frequency square waves at high voltage which is exactly what Meyer's was using in his working circuit.

MeyerandMe

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #43, on October 3rd, 2012, 06:47 PM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on October 3rd, 2012, 06:20 PM
Quote from MeyerandMe on October 3rd, 2012, 06:02 PM
Came across this old post.
From:

http://www.electro-tech-online.com/alternative-energy/42388-stanley-meyers-zero-point-energy-8.html

@All
Maybe it's time for a lesson in basic electronics The only problem
with Meyer's technology is that nobody has a clue as to what he was
doing in his circuit, so let's walk through it. In the circuit below
we have a pulsed DC current input to a toroidal core transformer, the
secondaries of this transformer form a resonant series circuit. The
resonant series "working circuit" consisting of the secondary
transformer windings, blocking diode, a resonant charging choke,water
cell capacitor and variable inductor. When people look at this circuit
they see what they want to see, that is what there textbooks have told
them they should see, but that is not all there is. So let's see what
really happens based on facts I have learned from actually building
the circuit.
First a DC pulse charges the toroidal transformer primary inducing a
higher potential voltage in the transformer secondaries. Since the
primary current is pulsed DC the secondary current is also pulsed DC,
the secondary windings produce a current flow through the blocking
diode then when the primary current is abruptly stopped an inductive
discharge (flyback current) is discharged through the blocking diode
from the secondaries. Many people consider the inductive discharge and
other reactive components as having no power in them but this is only
because they lack the understanding of how these reactive components
should be utilized. The inductive discharge would normally fly right
through this circuit with little effect if it not for one component ---
the resonant charging choke. I wonder why it is named resonant
"charging" choke? this would imply it is charged by something and it
is charged by the inductive discharge from the transformer
secondaries. The resonant charging choke is Tesla patent 512340 "coil
for electromagnets" and is a bifiliar wound coil. This coil does one
thing-----it stores the high voltage inductive discharge from the
transformer secondaries as capacitance between the conductor windings
and this capacitance also cancels the inductance of the coil. This is
one point many people cannot seem to understand, If the capacitance of
this coil constitutes energy stored in the form of an electrostatic
field then this capacitance must discharge when the circuit potential
drops but the capacitance is not polarized externally ----so where
does it discharge to?. The blocking diode ensures the resonant
charging choke current discharges in the same direction as the current
that charged it in the first place. So here we have a situation where
the induced current in the secondaries charges the resonant charging
choke and the water cell capacitor, next the resonant charging choke
discharges with an equal current in the same direction through the
water cell capacitor. The resonant charging choke bifiliar would coil
is an integral part of what Tesla refered to as a "magnifying effect"
whereby the potential of the circuit does as much "work" as the
current. Next we have a variable inductor after the water cell, this
variable inductance is designed to tune the circuit. A variable
inductor stores energy in the form of a magnetic field, this
inductance can act just like a flywheel. That is the inductance will
oppose a rising current by producing a magnetic field and it will
oppose a falling current by raising its voltage to maintain current----
just like a flywheel uses momentum to resist change. That is the
purpose of the variable inductance---to maintain current flow in one
direction through the circuit which includes the water cell capacitor.
I hope you are starting to see what is happening in this circuit,
there is no overunity---that is impossible, there is no magical zero
point energy appearing out of nowhere, there are no fairies sprinkling
magical pixie dust to power the circuit. There are know and proven
facts, action and reaction, in this case the facts are that the
inductive discharge current from the transformer secondaries has never
been utilized in an efficient manner. Each DC input pulse will raise
both circuit potential and current simultaneously, as such the energy
or "work" performed in the working circuit will always be greater than
the input energy.
It is said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing
over and over again and expecting different results. So why do you do
the same things over and over, building your circuits in exactly the
same way, it should be obvious you will never achieve different nor
better results.
Regards
AC
Attached Images
meyers.jpg (10.4 KB, 97 views)
:end quote:


Cheers,
JP
Hi JP, this sounds good and very workable, but can someone here on our forum draw up a schematic showing this ? :D Also the meyers.jpg photo does not work, have to belong to the forum above in this post to view the photo, thanks Jeff.:D
I joined to get the sketch.
Here is is:[attachment=2390]

Jeff Nading

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #44, on October 3rd, 2012, 08:19 PM »
Thanks JP, I thought about joining but figured the drawing would be what we already had and I was right. I wouldn't mind asking "allcanadian" to come over to this forum though, I think he could be of great benefit here. Would you mind hunting him down and asking him to join? Thanks again, Jeff.:cool::D:P

MeyerandMe

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #45, on October 3rd, 2012, 09:29 PM »Last edited on October 3rd, 2012, 09:54 PM by MeyerandMe
Quote from Jeff Nading on October 3rd, 2012, 08:19 PM
Thanks JP, I thought about joining but figured the drawing would be what we already had and I was right. I wouldn't mind asking "allcanadian" to come over to this forum though, I think he could be of great benefit here. Would you mind hunting him down and asking him to join? Thanks again, Jeff.:cool::D:P
Good idea.
At first glance it won't be easy to find him.
I'll look more for a way to find him but I don't see the kind of member list and profiles we have here.
Oooops, I wasn't logged in but....
He hasn't been active since Jan 2011 and has chosen not to get private messages so I cannot contact him.

Oh well...
JP

Webmug

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #46, on October 4th, 2012, 08:17 AM »Last edited on October 4th, 2012, 08:19 AM by Webmug
I have a problem with this Bifilar Coils construction story telling.
According to the photos from Dynodon the chokes are not wound Bifilar on one bobbin. So they do not cancel out the self-inductances.

Also when we pulse the primary on let's say 5kHz we see AC on resonance and no PULSE square wave at from the secondary coil.

Regards!



adys15

RE: Meyer Demo Cell Replication for University Testing by JP
« Reply #49, on October 4th, 2012, 10:24 AM »
Quote from Webmug on October 4th, 2012, 09:37 AM
Quote from geenee on October 4th, 2012, 09:35 AM
Webmug,you mean 1st choke is bifilar 2 wires??? and 2nd choke is 1 wire normal bobbin???

thanks
geenee
No, two bobbin coils with only one wire per coil.

Regards!
Hello webmug!what skematic do you use for gating circuit?I have Stans original skematic but does not work.I recieve the signal from 4001 but does not triger the 74122!!!when  conect directly the square wave rom the 9xa to the 3/4 pins on 74122 it outputs some sort of adjustable wave,so the cip works.but not with the input from 4001... i have also a 74123 but don't know how to hook it up.I have trying to get the circuit working for over 5 monts...I am so frustrated...so please anyone can help? :(