First of all a BIG THANKS for answering all that questions!!!You are a great man!!!
Now about Ted Zettergren:How he figured it out without the patents on public domain(i see Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:59:28 +0100)just before Stan's death.
quote:''Back a couple years, a couple of his investors got wise to his scam
>and took him to court, where Meyer was found guilty of "gross and
>egregious fraud" and ordered to repay those 'investors''
How did he knows it was a scamer?
''After being found guilty of fraud, Meyer sent a long rambling letter
>to the remainder of his 'investors', obviously hoping to ward off a
>spate of trials which would have drained him of his ill-gotten gains.
>It was replete with conspiracy paranoia and claimed that a recording
>device in the courtroom was turned off so the judge (obviously working
>under the direction of THE CONSPIRACY) could railroad Meyer into an
>unjust guilty verdict.''
It is true?He was truely found guilty of fraud?or is about the marketing rights?
'' As I am told the 8XA circuit is NOT for resonance but merely to show the Electrical Polarization "voltage as the dominant non-consumed physical force" as the prime effect on the breakdown of the dielectric medium. Again I am not electronics literate myself and don't even know yet what gating is about.''
I heard that too,that is not a resonant circuit,then why Stan buil it?why it shows the waveform in the patent?why Tony Woodside got resonance with 8xa?Basicaly the 9xa freq.gen is the same with the later one installed on the buggy,the only diference is that the Demo 9xa is pulsing variac voltage trough SCR,and the newer one is pulsing the primary of the vic transformer.
The same inductor-capacitor-blocking diode on both of the sistems.
And now for the gating:the gating separates the pulse trains(50% square wave) into larger or smaller ''groups'' of pulses coming from the 9xa(see att with Stan's words)
I read your other posts and you said GM came to Stan....and he said that could generate 7 POUNDS of gas per minute.How many LPM 7pounds means?
I saw those 30 pages ,seems to be an earlier version of the book Birth of the new tech.
Thanks again for your efforts in helping all of us on the forum.Best regards Ady
Ok, I'll answer as best I can here.
First, Stan died on March 21, 1998 and Ted Z's post is from December 1998. Stan's patents were available from the time of issuance to study or try to duplicate. One cannot commercialize patented technology but you still can experiment until they expire. Then it's anything goes. That was in 2008. Apparently Ted Z. knew Mathias Johanson who was one of Stan's expert witnesses. Stan went overseas many times to teach others his work there too. Fortunately they didn't reject him like they did in America.
The "scammer" comment is from another newsgroup poster, John F., who thought Stan was scamming people (now proven in court) by taking money from people in demonstrating the cell saying "new process" while the detractors claimed it was simply electrolysis and that Stan had "secret tubes" or some such to make it look like he was producing massive amounts of gas. I know there were no such tubes and things because I saw the cell many times operated in more than one location and there is no way possible for there to have been any hidden "tank of gas." Besides the cell ran cool as a cucumber which showed that VERY LITTLE CURRENT was being used in the process. Here is the Wireless World article in which he demonstrated the cell to examiners from England. The only meters they could see were on the black box as Stan Never let anyone connect a multimeter to measure power for themselves. This also created suspicion. [attachment=2358][attachment=2359]
As for the "gross and egregious fraud" comment the judge made in the case, he had no reason to say anything like this. Stan was not "convicted" of anything as it was a CIVIL case and not criminal. The suit basically was brought by two investors who got tired of waiting for Stan to produce a product that would start making money to return their investments. This was civil fraud judgment and Stan merely had to return some investor money. There was a ONE DOLLAR fine by the court to Stan and they NEVER gave any cease and desist orders or anything like that for Stan to discontinue his funding structure. Stan makes a long statement about all these events in his "Public Notice to Inform" attached below.
Now, on to "resonance" in the 8xA and 9xa use etc.:
All I know is what Josh from Stansdream.com told me about the 8xa and 9Xa.
He simply said, "The 8xA was for the two demonstration cells demonstrated for the patent. It doesn't create resonance." I do not know how accurate that statement is. I know the 9Xa and other advancements were for increased gas production and voltage intensification and control. I too am just learning the 8xA and 9xA differences. Beyond that I cannot comment about wave forms and what Woodside has done. My understanding is that for the "Resonant Cavity" you must use the 9xA or newer circuit. As far as what components or VIC, frequency generator or such, you need to discuss this with other engineers. I have very little knowledge of component functions beyond basic things. I did find this that I think explains the basics nicely.
From:
http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1299 Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 8:24 am Post subject: The Physics of
Efficient Water Splitting::Stan's secrets exp
by: HMS-776
This post and the things described in it are not up for debate.
Everything explained in this post is physics law.
Voltage is defined as an electric potential (charge) at a point in
space.
Voltage can be of a positive charge, defined as a lack of electrons
Or a negative charge, defined as an excess of electrons
Voltage is the driving force that causes the movement of electrons
(current flow)
In Physics we know that like charges repel, and opposite charges
attract
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_potential http://physics.bu.edu/py106/notes/Charge.html The atom consists of two charged parts, the Proton which carries a
positive charge, and the electron which carries a negative charge. In
most atoms and molecules there is an equal number of each, meaning
that they are in stable state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom The combination of opposite charges attract each other to hold atoms
and molecules together. In the water molecule the charge that holds
the atoms together is known as a covalent bond.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covalent_bond Looking at the water molecule:
If you look at the water molecule, you'll quickly find the way that
it is arranged the atoms have seperate charges, The Hydrogen atoms
have a positive charge and the oxygen atoms carries a negative
charge.
http://www.shorstmeyer.com/msj/geo130/water/water.html Now we know that voltage is an electrical attraction force, which can
cause current (electrons) to flow by moving them from one atom to
another.
We know that there are two charges, Positive and negative. A positive
charge being defined as a lack of electrons. A negative charge being
defined as an excess of electrons.
We also know in physics everything must reach a stable state, so when
a difference in potential exists current flows until there is no
difference in potential (all atoms reach a stable state).
So, if we place the water molecule between two plates charged with
opposite voltages, we know that the electrons spinning around the atom
will all be attracted toward the positive plate, and the proton will
be attracted toward the negative plate (opposites attract) thus
slowing down the orbital movement of the atom(s), the higher the
charges become the further the atom will be slowed down and pulled
apart, until eventually the molecule splits into it's component
atoms.
This is how common electrolysis works.
No, to go a little deeper. If we have a wire, and each side of that
wire has an equal, but opposite charge, current will begin to flow.
The moving electrons (current flow) will fill in voids (areas with
missing electrons) at one side of the circuit. This will cause many
previously positive charges to combine with electrons (negative
charges) to reach a stable state, cancelling out there charge, meaning
that voltage potential will decrease.
In common electrolysis the water has an electrolyte added to make the
water more conductive (current flows easier). This causes an excessive
current flow, which decreases the voltage potential (as described
above). Electrolysis has been proven to be most efficient at less than
2 volts.
"A cell operating at
the theoretical voltage of 1.23 volts is 100 percent efficient. The
amount of voltage above 1.23 required to operate the cell is
wasted. The objective, then, is to make a cell that will operate
as close to this voltage as possible."
http://www.billingsenergy.com/Research/HWV-Chapter_09.PDF see page 6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water So with electrolysis the voltage with the highest efficiency is only
1.23 Volts. As we know voltage is an electrical attraction force, 1.23
Volts is not much.
If we were able to increase the voltage, and restrict current flow we
could break the current model of 1.23 volts peak potential by hundreds
or even thousands of percent more! That is exactly what Stan did.
To make his method the most efficient he used what is known as a
resonant charging choke circuit. The circuit is a LC circuit which can
be operated at resonance for maximum efficiency.
In an LC circuit resonance is when the capacitive reactance and the
inductive reactance cancel each other out, meaning that the circuit
can operate at it's maximum amplitude, in this case amplitude is
referring to voltage while amp flow is restricted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_6/3.html "A word of caution is in order with series LC resonant circuits:
because of the high currents which may be present in a series LC
circuit at resonance, it is possible to produce dangerously high
voltage drops across the capacitor and the inductor"
To increase efficiency even more Stan added inductors to the circuit,
the inductors build up a magnetic field when current is flowing
through them, and the field collapses when current stops causing an
extra pulse when a blocking diode is used.
In the case of splitting water, it only makes sense that the longer
the voltage was applied to the water the more water would be split. So
when Stan added the inductors to the circuit he did them for that
exact reason. A secondary (high voltage transformer/inductor) and the
water capacitor had a large off time, but by adding inductors he can
do the following:
In the resonant charging choke circuit, the circuit contains 3
inductors, one which is the secondary of the transformer and the other
two are used to do the following:
When a magnetic field is created (by the transformer primary) and
collapses it creates a pulse through the secondary winding which goes
through the chokes and creates a magnetic field around them, as the
magnetic field collapses around the chokes another pulse is created.
As Stan States in patent # 4,936,961: talking about the Resonant
Charging Choke circuit:
"In this manner a continuous voltage is produced across the capacitor
plates…”
So there you see. By restricting current the voltage potential
(attraction force) can be brought much higher. To increase the
efficiency even more the circuit was operated at resonance, and
inductors were added to prevent the capacitor from discharging, giving
it a constant voltage.
This is where Stan hit some difficult challenges in his work, and
this is where most forums and individuals are stuck. Resonance.
You have to realize that with water as the dielectric resonance will
not stay the same for any length of time. In fact it changes
constantly. Changing temperature, water splitting in the cell creating
bubbles between the plates, Water being split and leaving behind it’s
contaminants in the WFC and a few other factors cause the problem of
keeping resonance for any amount of time.
So Stan went on to develop the PLL circuit, a circuit which
automatically detects resonance and continuously scans signals as
resonance changes to keep the circuit as close to resonance as
possible.
A PLL circuit is commonly known in electronics as a Phase lock Loop,
it is made for matching frequencies and doing many more things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-locked_loop http://scopeboy.com/tesla/drsstc/index.html Example of PLL use for resonance in a tesla coil
After much time the circuits were made to work, but were scrapped for
his newest invention. The invention I call the MAGNETRON WFC.
We have all seen the picture of Stan Meyers WFC, the one that
contains the delrin housing, the magnet, ETC.
Here I will discuss this type of the WFC, I am not the first one to
point this out as it has been discussed by many others.
First, looking at a magnetron you should see 3 things about this WFC
that jump out at you:
1. The SS tube
2. The Magnet
3. The Vanes
In this WFC the SS tube (cathode) is given a high voltage negative
charge. This charge being negative produces a repelling force on the
surrounding electrons and the electrons are pushed away from the
cathode. The magnetic field produced by the permanent magnet has an
effect on the electrons and causes them to move spirally, outward
from
the cathode.
As the electrons move past the vanes (Anode Vanes) a
voltage is induced into the vanes that is equal to the cathode
voltage. The vanes being connected to each other form tiny LC
resonant
circuits as they not only have a current flowing through them which
forms an inductor but they have space between them which forms a
capacitor.
Because of the movement of the electrons which also carry a
magnetic field voltages are induced into the anode vanes. It is the
opposite voltages in the anode vanes that split the water molecules.
The resonant frequency is pumped into the cavities and no resonant
scanning locking circuit (PLL) is needed.
It should be noted that as the anode vanes are small they form very
small LC circuits which resonate at high frequencies which may
operate in the MICROWAVE range!
http://www.upv.es/gcm/docente/magnetron.html http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/magnetron.html http://www.tufts.edu/as/tampl/en43/lecture_notes/ch7.html http://www.cpii.com/docs/related/2/Mag%20tech%20art.pdf The Websites above give a very good explanation of how Stan’s
magnetron WFC works.
Note that meyers setup the anode vanes were of a different
configuration that common magnetrons use.
So now we should know how 2 versions of the WFC work:
1. SS tube type
2. Magnetron type
The SS tube type split the water molecules using high voltage of
opposite polarity pulsed at resonant frequencies which are
controlled
by the resonant scanning/locking (PLL) circuit.
The Magnetron type split the water molecules using high voltage of
opposite polarity at resonant frequencies which are “pumped”
into the anode vanes and DO NOT require a resonant scanning/locking
circuit.
The only problem with the magnetron circuit is that, as each tiny LC
circuit only had one inductance the voltage was not constant. And as
we know when there are voltage off times between pulses we loose
efficiency. There was also the problem of hydrogen under pressure, as
we know hydrogen is extremely flammable, and when under pressure there
could be leaks, explosions etc.
Now on to the final, and best invention! The INJECTORS.
Looking at the injectors it seems very complex, hard to understand.
After all there is only one wire going to them from the distributor.
How could one wire (one voltage) split the water molecule when it
takes both positive and negative voltage to do that.
In the Tech Brief Stan claims a negative voltage is formed in the
injector due to "electron bunching or clustering.''
The Negative voltage is "induced" inside the injector. The formation
of this charge is known in physics as ELECTROSTATIC INDUCTION!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_induction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ36EtABLAk&feature=PlayList&p=8F65598...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatics Electrostatic induction is basically when one charged object charges
another nearby object to an opposite charge. This is because of the
physics law, opposites attract, like charges repel.
If you have an object which has a high positive charge (lack of
electrons) and you put it toward another object the positive charge
will attract electrons (negative charge) toward it, creating a
negative charge on the surface closest to the positive charged object,
while at the same time the positive charged object will repel the
positive charges on the other object away from it.
So you see, the Injectors work to split the water molecule using high
voltage of opposite charge. In the Tech Brief Stan claims the WFC can
be made as small as a Spark Plug.
He makes all three inventions seem like they are the same device, but
really as you’ve read you can see they are different. The part that is
the same is the fact that they all use HIGH VOLTAGE OF OPPOSITE
POLARITY while restricting amp flow “influxing” to split the water
molecule.
Now to make the resonance changes smaller in the Injectors, Stan used
an electrostatic filter to attract and trap contaminants in the water,
increasing the dielectric value of the dielectric, which increased the
capacitance, which reduced the resonant frequency and also made the
changes in resonance smaller.
Hope you enjoyed the explanation.
Please note that nothing written here is “Theory”. Everything here
has been proven and is common physics law, See references for more
understanding and proof of the simplicity Stan Meyers work. The
simplicity of his work is one reason why he made everything so
complicated and hard to understand, to protect it from being stolen.
If the common man understood the simplicity of creating and using
energy there would be no such thing as oil monopolies, pollution, and
carbon taxes! Our biggest cities would have the cleanest air, there
would be no third world countries, and our entire world would thrive
in it’s existence.
Last edited by HMS-776 on Tue May 12, 2009 6:17 am; edited 12 times in
total
Now, as for Stan's "7 pounds of hydrogen" statement to GM:
I think he meant if he could show he was producing the HHO gases from his 9 tube cell at 7 pounds of pressure a minute consistently, that he could run the internal combustion engine at needed speeds. He demonstrates this gas production in my video where it takes less than a minute for him to build 7 lbs of pressure in the cell cavity above the tubes and water. As for that volume there, it is small so I can't calculate it and convert to liters/min. In one of his videos on youtube he shows the buggy running (idling) off the 9 tube cell with the alternator, belt driven by the electric motor sitting on the ground. Here is that video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF62l6bX_0YListen, he says "Using exact same cell as he demonstrated to the U.S. patent office."
He says, "Maintaining 13 1/4 pounds of pressure."
I know this doesn't answer everything.
I hope others who have made a better study of the differences in the 8xA and 9xa circuits and what other Chokes and components make it work properly and efficiently.
All I know is Stan was trying to make the whole system smaller and smaller to fit into existing devices while making it more efficient and reliable.
Cheers and good luck,
JP