Quote

Chris, i work a full time job including long hrs and weekends, have 2 kids, ( 2&3 year old), volunteer at my church as much as I can and try to keep wife happy

Kudos to you.

Quote

Russ said:

If you read the patents, the inventor stated that the helium is consumed... This may me such little Helium that the thorium may emit just enough to keep the gas stable... That was My thought on it. (see earlier posts)

Russ, I think you are off base here on this one.

I looked up the helium production rate of thorium. That rate is 0.000031 cc per gram of thorium per year. In my opinion, this low rate of helium production by thorium is not impactful in the depletion profile of helium in the Papp fuel charge. The fuel charge life time for the original Papp engine was 6 months. 0.000015 cc of helium per gram of thorium would have been produced in that timeframe.

Interesting, 0.00011 cc per grams of uranium per year are produced by uranium. So gram for gram, Uranium produces about 4 times the alpha intensity as thorium does.

Am241, the isotope in smoke alarms produces about 1 billion times more alphas per second than thorium does. This stuff will kill you for sure if it gets inside the body.

So don’t even think about it.

The helium in the Papp fuel is depleted by fusion of helium into boron according to J. Rohner; “a brown powder”

I’m hardly any kind of expert on this system but I got the impression the contents of the buckets was to provide a positive and negative path for excess electricity to exit the cavity.  

If both buckets were just putting out a negative or positive voltage then the capacitor he is using would not charge up would it?

It could be that the content of the buckets act kind of like diodes, so maybe just some high power diodes would work instead of the contents. But that is just a guess. :idea:

element 119

Quote from element 119 on September 15th, 2012, 11:36 PM

I’m hardly any kind of expert on this system but I got the impression the contents of the buckets was to provide a positive and negative path for excess electricity to exit the cavity.  

If both buckets were just putting out a negative or positive voltage then the capacitor he is using would not charge up would it?

It could be that the content of the buckets act kind of like diodes, so maybe just some high power diodes would work instead of the contents. But that is just a guess. :idea:

element 119

This “lightning rocket” YouTube shows what happens in the spark chamber but on a much bigger scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buSaGIoNXu8

Long version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN4QRwHCOXQ&feature=endscreen

Quote from CuriousChris on September 15th, 2012, 04:23 PM

>Please re-read the post I was referring to in my comment before you attribute blame.

I did and you are right, i jumped the gun and read it like a belittlement and combined it with the irony in the last 2 sentences to finish the judgement..


>But I do apologise for being confrontational. I sometimes get short when on forums I see people attribute something complex to something simple.
>While I think Feynman made a huge mistake, its not because he has a little head.

And here too, i'm allergic for felt injustice.. so again sorry for my part!

Its difficult being sharp and precise and clear enough.





Russ :

Chris, i work a full time job including long hrs and weekends, have 2 kids, ( 2&3 year old), volunteer at my church as much as I can and try to keep wife happy, keep the forums up and running, keep my webpage up and up try to respond to my email (have about 1000 emails in my in box i havent goten to respond to) make my videos and keep my self sane! Lol im what you call "dedicated" lol

Oh a did I mention the 100's of YouTube comments and messages? Lol
  [/end russ]

Reading this i hope you type with more fingers then i do... and thinking on...how much is a decent voice recognition package? You talk it types...

Quote from Axil on September 15th, 2012, 08:47 PM

Quote

Russ said:

If you read the patents, the inventor stated that the helium is consumed... This may me such little Helium that the thorium may emit just enough to keep the gas stable... That was My thought on it. (see earlier posts)

Russ, I think you are off base here on this one.

I looked up the helium production rate of thorium. That rate is 0.000031 cc per gram of thorium per year. In my opinion, this low rate of helium production by thorium is not impactful in the depletion profile of helium in the Papp fuel charge. The fuel charge life time for the original Papp engine was 6 months. 0.000015 cc of helium per gram of thorium would have been produced in that timeframe.

Interesting, 0.00011 cc per grams of uranium per year are produced by uranium. So gram for gram, Uranium produces about 4 times the alpha intensity as thorium does.

Am241, the isotope in smoke alarms produces about 1 billion times more alphas per second than thorium does. This stuff will kill you for sure if it gets inside the body.

So don’t even think about it.

The helium in the Papp fuel is depleted by fusion of helium into boron according to J. Rohner; “a brown powder”

Axil, yeah, it was just a theory, glad to see some one making more sence of it than me... Thanks for the feedback!

Also, it may be only to help ionize the gas... And that's it! ?? Don't know.

Ps. I have been collecting some Am241... Lol not much ( 2 detectors) but if all we are doing is helping the ionization then could we not use it?

Also, see my post's on the other type of elements,

What's up with:
Red phosphorus?

And we can triad thorium with strontium ???

Why these defrents.

Good Info! Thanks for some more Insite on the radictoactive elements.  

For now, I plan on using the buckets to capture the electricity in the argon layer with the buckets...

Interestingly I have seen bob connect the wires to his test unit about 3 defrent ways... All seemed to work... Hummm???

One way was both buckets were connected togeather then the unit was grounded (or so it looked) and the buckets were connected to the + of the cap..

Another was both one bucket and one eletrode connected. Then the other two connected to something else. ???

Then no buckets in some cases???

Just seems like slap a big discharge in the chamber and get the gasses to go in to a plasma... That part seems eazy. Just use more power if need be...

The hard part is geting it all to work efficiently and the make the "crossover" to work! Those are the hard parts... Oh and the gas mixture...

Just some thoughts...

~Russ

Some more progress photos:

1) A few token wraps of Kevlar thread and epoxy for added strength, primarily over the cast aluminum section.
2) Red varnish added.
3) Cylinder coiling setup.
4) Finished cylinder coil, 10 layers, 745 turns, 21 ga. copper.
5) Reaction chamber coil done, 8 layers, 400 turns, 21 ga. copper.
6) Another view, finished coils.
7) Top view of finished head.
8) Bottom view of finished head.  12 ga. copper RF 'antenna', and 1/16" Tungsten, 2% thorated electrodes (3).

kcd

Edit: Measured resistance: Cylinder coil 8.25 ohms, Reaction coil 4.40 ohms.

Quote from k c dias on September 17th, 2012, 09:01 AM

Some more progress photos:

1) A few token wraps of Kevlar thread and epoxy for added strength, primarily over the cast aluminum section.
2) Red varnish added.
3) Cylinder coiling setup.
4) Finished cylinder coil, 10 layers, 745 turns, 21 ga. copper.
5) Reaction chamber coil done, 8 layers, 400 turns, 21 ga. copper.
6) Another view, finished coils.
7) Top view of finished head.
8) Bottom view of finished head.

kcd

Looking sleek KC !
What kind of electrode's do you use?
And do you use bending to change the gap-distance if needed?

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 17th, 2012, 09:48 AM

Looking sleek KC !
What kind of electrode's do you use?
And do you use bending to change the gap-distance if needed?

Thanks EZ!  The electrodes are 1/16" Tungsten, 2% thorated.  (I added that information after your post) The gap is fixed, about 0.30" if I recall correctly (the head is not with me right now)  The distance to the RF wire is farther, so I hope the HV is well behaved and jumps the proper gap.

kcd

Quote from k c dias on September 17th, 2012, 09:01 AM

Some more progress photos:

1) A few token wraps of Kevlar thread and epoxy for added strength, primarily over the cast aluminum section.
2) Red varnish added.
3) Cylinder coiling setup.
4) Finished cylinder coil, 10 layers, 745 turns, 21 ga. copper.
5) Reaction chamber coil done, 8 layers, 400 turns, 21 ga. copper.
6) Another view, finished coils.
7) Top view of finished head.
8) Bottom view of finished head.

kcd

Regarding figure 8 (Bottom view of finished head.) From the looks of this picture, the use of the grounded aluminum center electrode used for the anode will negate the low work function behavior of the thorium/ tungsten electrodes. I would think that thorium/tungsten electrodes should be used all around for both anode and cathode. Or I could be misinterpreting the circuit implied by this picture altogether.

Quote from Axil on September 17th, 2012, 10:53 AM

Regarding figure 8 (Bottom view of finished head.) From the looks of this picture, the use of the grounded aluminum center electrode used for the anode will negate the low work function behavior of the thorium/ tungsten electrodes. I would think that thorium/tungsten electrodes should be used all around for both anode and cathode. Or I could be misinterpreting the circuit implied by this picture altogether.

Thank you Axil!  I was hoping someone would comment on that!  So just arcing to the aluminum, I loose all the advantages of the thorated rods?  Would a copper post do better? (The patent application calls for a copper post)  If its gotta be thorated tungsten to thorated tungsten, then I can definitely do that. :)

kcd

Quote from k c dias on September 17th, 2012, 11:42 AM

Quote from Axil on September 17th, 2012, 10:53 AM

Regarding figure 8 (Bottom view of finished head.) From the looks of this picture, the use of the grounded aluminum center electrode used for the anode will negate the low work function behavior of the thorium/ tungsten electrodes. I would think that thorium/tungsten electrodes should be used all around for both anode and cathode. Or I could be misinterpreting the circuit implied by this picture altogether.

Thank you Axil!  I was hoping someone would comment on that!  So just arcing to the aluminum, I loose all the advantages of the thorated rods?  Would a copper post do better? (The patent application calls for a copper post)  If its gotta be thorated tungsten to thorated tungsten, then I can definitely do that. :)

kcd

FYI. The 1/16" tungsten electrodes should be just fine if you only apply the high-voltage potential. if you are going to be discharging capacitors like I am.  Your tungsten electrodes will not handle it. Just a heads up if you plan on trying capacitor discharge.

Your craftsmanship is excellent. Kudos my friend!

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on September 17th, 2012, 12:49 PM

FYI. The 1/16" tungsten electrodes should be just fine if you only apply the high-voltage potential. if you are going to be discharging capacitors like I am.  Your tungsten electrodes will not handle it. Just a heads up if you plan on trying capacitor discharge.

Your craftsmanship is excellent. Kudos my friend!

~Russ

Thanks!!  You are doing quite a nice job yourself!! :)

kcd

Quote from k c dias on September 17th, 2012, 01:04 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on September 17th, 2012, 12:49 PM

FYI. The 1/16" tungsten electrodes should be just fine if you only apply the high-voltage potential. if you are going to be discharging capacitors like I am.  Your tungsten electrodes will not handle it. Just a heads up if you plan on trying capacitor discharge.

Your craftsmanship is excellent. Kudos my friend!

~Russ

Thanks!!  You are doing quite a nice job yourself!! :)

kcd

FYI. Parking to the aluminum center will not be good. Your aluminum will start to be destroyed. If you had a piece of stainless  or even some other material that will withstand the sparking it would be your best option. From what I understand John Rhoner is supposed to be using some sort of a strontium impregnated electrode.

I have not been able to find any strontium impregnated electrodes of any kind for sale. If someone finds one let me know

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on September 17th, 2012, 01:25 PM

FYI. Parking to the aluminum center will not be good. Your aluminum will start to be destroyed. If you had a piece of stainless  or even some other material that will withstand the sparking it would be your best option. From what I understand John Rhoner is supposed to be using some sort of a strontium impregnated electrode.

I have not been able to find any strontium impregnated electrodes of any kind for sale. If someone finds one let me know

You are correct, the J.R. pat. app. states using a strontium or copper arc return element.  Do you know that he is actually using strontium instead of copper?

Chuck!!  What do the plans say?  Strontium or copper?  This is not a huge betrayal of the J.R. after-the-fact-oh-by-the-way-don't-tell-anyone-agreement you have if you help us with this one...

kcd

There is a project called focus fusion that discharges huge power from a capacitor bank and their electrode configuration is designed to handle it.

The key is the number of cathodes that they use; they use many as shown here.



This is what the plasma looks like

http://www.flickr.com/photos/focusfusion/5928744798/in/photostream/

The key is the hollow central anode.

focus fusion  get to a few billion volts. John Rohner uses 4 and he gets 4ookv

Included in this site below is some automations that describe how the plasmoid works and looks.

You might find this interesting and might get some ideas about electrode design when you get to the experimental stage.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffocusfusion.org%2Findex.php%2Fsite%2Fcategory%2FC70&ei=x4xXUJXNCO-60QHU-oDABQ&usg=AFQjCNEWSOZi_RaqCCbg_Pi0UG89qJLsIw&sig2=LTPCGsxycyQm2tZf7r9SFw

Quote from k c dias on September 17th, 2012, 10:38 AM

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 17th, 2012, 09:48 AM

Looking sleek KC !
What kind of electrode's do you use?
And do you use bending to change the gap-distance if needed?

Thanks EZ!  The electrodes are 1/16" Tungsten, 2% thorated.  (I added that information after your post) The gap is fixed, about 0.30" if I recall correctly (the head is not with me right now)  The distance to the RF wire is farther, so I hope the HV is well behaved and jumps the proper gap.

kcd

Man KC that is some really fine work, wish I had a lathe that large, mine will only turn 7", that is just awesome, good work. :cool::D:P

Quote from k c dias on September 17th, 2012, 02:11 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on September 17th, 2012, 01:25 PM

FYI. Parking to the aluminum center will not be good. Your aluminum will start to be destroyed. If you had a piece of stainless  or even some other material that will withstand the sparking it would be your best option. From what I understand John Rhoner is supposed to be using some sort of a strontium impregnated electrode.

I have not been able to find any strontium impregnated electrodes of any kind for sale. If someone finds one let me know

You are correct, the J.R. pat. app. states using a strontium or copper arc return element.  Do you know that he is actually using strontium instead of copper?

Chuck!!  What do the plans say?  Strontium or copper?  This is not a huge betrayal of the J.R. after-the-fact-oh-by-the-way-don't-tell-anyone-agreement you have if you help us with this one...

kcd

KCD, The manual calls for using a "1/8" welding rod".  Chuck  

Quote from Jeff Nading on September 17th, 2012, 02:39 PM

Man KC that is sum really fine work, wish I had a lathe that large, mine will only turn 7", that is just awesome, good work. :cool::D:P

Thanks Jeff!  If I make another one, the coils will be wound on slip-over spools! No more direct wind 4me :D

And thanks to Axil!  More cool stuff to study!! (Tomorrow, i'm tired)

kcd

Quote from zerwell on September 17th, 2012, 02:43 PM

KCD, The manual calls for using a "1/8" welding rod".  Chuck

Thanks Chuck!!  I'm sure that J.R. means tungsten when he says welding rod.  I'll take Axil's advice and use 2% thorium as well.

kcd

hello every one...

some updates...

my internet is dead in the water... so no live feed of the testing... ( CRAPy! )

but the tests will began either tomorrow or the next day... will update when i can.

here is the update of the Buckets.

i think bib drilled 3/4" holes then used adapters so the buckets are not touching the side of the chamber...

i instead just turned down the buckets for now... i thin k it will be just fine... used some high isolating tape (slicing tape 130C) works well...

Here is a photo:

[attachment=2235]

as far as the schematic... for the simple test single fire... here is what i have:
see post here:
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=659&pid=7658#pid7658

all in all im ready to test. i did some more vacuum and pressure testing.

it sat all weekend and went from -26 to about -10 in about 3 days... for a test unit... i'm happy with that...

best of luck for testing! here we go!


ah... and dose this look safe at 600V??? hahaha
[attachment=2237]

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on September 17th, 2012, 09:31 PM

as far as the schismatic... for the simple test single fire... here is what i have:
~Russ

schism |ˈs(k)izəm|
noun
a split or division between strongly opposed sections or parties, caused by differences in opinion or belief.
• the formal separation of a church into two churches or the secession of a group owing to doctrinal and other differences. See also Great Schism.

Freudian slip? Hope not. :P

Quote from cncjoe on September 17th, 2012, 10:30 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on September 17th, 2012, 09:31 PM

as far as the schismatic... for the simple test single fire... here is what i have:
~Russ

schism |ˈs(k)izəm|
noun
a split or division between strongly opposed sections or parties, caused by differences in opinion or belief.
• the formal separation of a church into two churches or the secession of a group owing to doctrinal and other differences. See also Great Schism.

Freudian slip? Hope not. :P

hahaah you should no by know im not here to spell... lol im here to build and test stuff!!! hahaha

i fixed it... :) thanks !!

~Russ

here is how the charge and fire circuit should be connected with this set up.

WARNING this schematic can be deadly and should be used only for reference. This schematic should be used for experienced builders  only.
[attachment=2239]

PLAY SAFE!!!!

Tralalaaahhh its testing week....  :rolleyes:

lalalaaaa

EZ...whistle smily..

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 18th, 2012, 04:11 AM

Tralalaaahhh its testing week....  :rolleyes:

lalalaaaa

EZ...whistle smily..

Lol it took me a bit but I figured it out! Lol

;)

Fun times!