Quote from atanguy on July 19th, 2013, 01:37 PM

Quote from Ris on July 8th, 2013, 09:44 AM

when Reinforced spark strikes hydrogen is created plasma

I see one problem: The energy that you will spend to break the water molecule in the plasma, will probably be a lot higher that the energy you could get from the H2/O2 gases expansion effect on the piston...

This is more a Stanly discussion, but there are more ways to make hydrogen beside electrolises.

see: http://www.open-source-energy.org/?tid=784&pid=9028#pid9028

project 1,4 and 1 with 7
And looking at them one can see the background of Stanley's waterplug????

So what's up everybody?

As i understand from Russ his interview on green-evolution etc.

there are more builders here who made a popperdevice...

If you have one..please give us an update. What do you have, what do you think you still need, what kind of data have you gathered and in what area can we readers here contribute to think along with ye?

Are there anomalies you may have encountered? Do you have things to test or what is blocking any progress?

Lets get some weight of russ his shoulders and get him excited about your roadstories in this field.

And as a teaser....we believe that Bob Rohner is genuine..and he has stated that he gets overunity (i hope he meant with his popperdevice) but thinks thats little league stuff and a 5 to 1 ratio is preferable.

So that should tickle this forum to match at least. Maybe with the separated gases seringed in at the right ratio's?

And there are more questions, like what about the gasclusters and do we have more idea's about the feedbackcurrent?

Quote from FaradayEZ on July 27th, 2013, 01:14 PM

And as a teaser....we believe that Bob Rohner is genuine..and he has stated that he gets overunity (i hope he meant with his popperdevice) but thinks thats little league stuff and a 5 to 1 ratio is preferable.

No he didn't.

John but not Bob Rohner has made the claim of over unity with his device.

I don't have a voice recording of him saying that to me but I am here to testify, and sign an affidavit if necessary, that Bob Rohner denied having achieved overunity to me last August while I was talking with him in his Rohner Machine Works machine shop in West Liberty, IA.

Moreover, I was passing through Iowa City at the end of June and called him up to see if he had yet achieved over unity with his two cylinder device.  He, again, denied that he had.

My last communication with him was a few days ago during which I suggested he try boron and hydrogen as an additive, based on John Rohner's statement that Papp had described powder in his device as having been boron -- and upon Papp's use of hydrogen (in the form of H2O) in one of this patents.  I've received no response to that suggestion as yet.

Quote from jabowery on July 29th, 2013, 02:09 PM

Quote from FaradayEZ on July 27th, 2013, 01:14 PM

And as a teaser....we believe that Bob Rohner is genuine..and he has stated that he gets overunity (i hope he meant with his popperdevice) but thinks thats little league stuff and a 5 to 1 ratio is preferable.

No he didn't.

John but not Bob Rohner has made the claim of over unity with his device.

I don't have a voice recording of him saying that to me but I am here to testify, and sign an affidavit if necessary, that Bob Rohner denied having achieved overunity to me last August while I was talking with him in his Rohner Machine Works machine shop in West Liberty, IA.

Moreover, I was passing through Iowa City at the end of June and called him up to see if he had yet achieved over unity with his two cylinder device.  He, again, denied that he had.

My last communication with him was a few days ago during which I suggested he try boron and hydrogen as an additive, based on John Rohner's statement that Papp had described powder in his device as having been boron -- and upon Papp's use of hydrogen (in the form of H2O) in one of this patents.  I've received no response to that suggestion as yet.

Hmm... that's strange, cause i have his writings from facebook, from the Papp NGE Fangroup where i purposely asked him this question.

If you scroll a bit down there, you can come up with the subject:

======copy pasted from facebook============

Christopher Wolfer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XdAnXmVi40

NGE 20.1 Power Speed Popping. Just wanted to see how fast I could pop thins thing! ;) ~Russ
www.youtube.com
Just for fun... Power popping! Freekkng cold! Can't feel my hands! Between 80-100j seems to work the best... For the voltage I was using...
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Tim Hanzlik So he has investors that would like him to protect the intellectual property they are trying to develop. How does that come to the logical conclusion that bob has lost investors? I think you have a lot to contribute EZ, I'm on O-S-E.org too. Sometimes I write a comment and read it and then delete, not to troll, but because I'm trying not to sound like an a-hole because being an a-hole is not my intent here. It's to keep an eye on progress, possibly contribute something or at least Learn as the tech is advanced to working stages. Gives me an advantage for servicing this type of equipment hopefully in the long run.
April 10 at 5:28am via mobile


Faraday EZ I don't know if he lost investors, but he says that i ly about things, and he is most upset, i can't do anything else then divert him to where i got things from.
April 10 at 5:32am


Faraday EZ Lol he even becomes voilent, what a joke, wants to kick me. while he started his lala stuff. I guess growing up with a dr.dr. as big brother etc. etc. oh why should i bother, its too easy. Let him calm down and see i contribute and realize he needs a small kick in the butt once in a while after 30 years of staring.
April 10 at 5:41am


Faraday EZ if chris wants me to delete this post above..i will
April 10 at 5:41am


Tim Hanzlik Having investors and not releasing intellectual property is completely different than having an incorrect mix and losing investors. I like the nobility of open-source Faraday, but not everyone sees it the same way. Bob makes a good point about open-source having issues with people scanning the web for big money interests and ten essentially seizing and taking control of intellectual property. It eliminates a lot of profit potential for someone. I think there's definitely a fine line to walk between open source and protecting intellectual property. So in a way open source could potentially allow the loss of this tech again because the wrong people own the patents.
April 10 at 5:42am via mobile


Faraday EZ Yes, its a tricky debate, but i respect Bob can't tell more then his investors want to. I say he hasn't got the real potential pappmix, because he agrees his engine isn't overunity. And if he had the real Pappmix then he should put it under a gaschromatograph to find out what's it is made of, before he uses all. Either way he then would have the key to make the engine successful, and has had if for a whole bunch of years...so why is the world still without it? Give him his profit and lets move on. I don't mind him getting rich from it, i just want to see it moving forward. Thats why i make the suggestions i made...and if one doesn't trust that, or me, i have no answer to that, what could i say?
April 10 at 5:52am


Bob Rohner I read my comments as instructed and I read yours FaLaLa on this forum - not even close. You've fabricated one story after another for no other reason than to puff your tiny ego. I understand this need. Dr. John was a pathological liar also, who firmly believed that a good lie was always better than the truth. Don't delete anything. This is an open forum.
April 10 at 5:53am


Faraday EZ Again, tell me where i lie
April 10 at 5:55am


Bob Rohner Fa La La - I have never said I was not over unity - can you just not quit making up stories. Also, I don't have ten grand or so for the testing
April 10 at 5:56am


Bob Rohner Did you say (and this is your quote) : "if you are afraid that you won't have a pension, that the papp-engine won't bring in the money,then come live with me, i'll put you up and make sure you have a roof over your head and food."
April 10 at 5:58am


Faraday EZ Yes, you said about your double piston setup that you couldn't say it to be overunity. I never said you have a lot of money to throw around...But i will look back and check again
April 10 at 5:58am


Faraday EZ yes, some words like that, i can provide the open-source-source
April 10 at 5:59am


Bob Rohner Did I say I "Later i found he hasn't got the real mix." Did I say: " Ok, too bad, and he has investors that shut him off.."
April 10 at 5:59am


Faraday EZ No, those are my words
April 10 at 6:00am


Faraday EZ I found due to what you let see that you didn't have the real mix
April 10 at 6:01am


Bob Rohner As Fabricated and pulled out of the air.
April 10 at 6:01am


Faraday EZ And you had investors, so i understood that you couldn't reveal too much
April 10 at 6:02am


Faraday EZ Not fabricated, i'll come up with the source
April 10 at 6:02am


Bob Rohner There is a vast difference against not being willing to tell and telling you I cannot. Pretty much night and day to the normal mind.
April 10 at 6:04am


Bob Rohner There is a vast difference in having investors who worry that I say too much and investors stockholders that want to shut me off. Makes a good story for you though.
April 10 at 6:06am


Faraday EZ There is..but i have to trust what you evidently show and tell. If that jumps to the wrong conclusions you are part of the misinformation
April 10 at 6:06am


Bob Rohner What did I show and tell that convinced you that my investors were going to shut me off, that my gas mix was necessarily incorrect, that I may or may not have been over unity, that I was worried about a pension. My engine goes round and round and needs work mechanically and electrically - so what . If you are going to reach conclusions then state them as such and not some bullPoo facts.

That twin engine by the way was built to work on the crossover - it is new and doesn't even have an output on the crankshaft - I really really doubt I would have made any statement about something that couldn't be measured. Even if it would make a good story, the people on this forum would tear me a new asshole in an instant. You gotta love em!
April 10 at 6:11am


Faraday EZ Not shut you off, shut you up, like not wanting you to tell too much.You had reason not to tell everything, and also made some remark about them being uneasy already with what you where reveiling (from the mind, have to factcheck it) That your mix isn't potent enough i derive from the video of the dual pistons, one of the latest you made, you said in the video that you didn't think it to be ou already, that it needed work. You never stated you where worried about a pension, i stated that if your reasoning for withholding (info about the pappengine) should be worrying about old age etc.
April 10 at 6:22am


Tim Hanzlik I won't delete anymore posts, I promise;). I just think sometimes after re-reading a post if it comes of contrived or completely under thought that it has no need being on the thread. More for the big co's to sort through though I suppose.
Shutting someone off and shutting someone up are 2 different things and improper wording can lead to deleting a comment as I can't just edit comments from my phone.
April 10 at 6:28am via mobile


Faraday EZ I didn't realize that, i was using shutting off as silencing...sorry its not my native language.
April 10 at 6:31am


Faraday EZ Anyhow, i still can't believe that You, Bob, have the real potent papp-mix that can do the job. And if you have then please try to find out its precise content, for the future of mankind etc.
April 10 at 6:37am


Faraday EZ And if it needs outside funding we'll find a way..hopefully.
April 10 at 6:38am


Bob Rohner Very good, I respect your disbelief. Feel free to have opinions all you want. If this is the result of a language difference then I suggest you tell us about yourself so we know. I have Korean friend that drive me nuts with misunderstanding both ways. It's past this old farts bedtime.
April 10 at 6:42am


Faraday EZ There's not much Bob, i want this world to survive. As i told i'm from Holland and interested in stuff that claims to be over unity. When i saw the video with the dynamo attached to the papp engine i believed in it. From august 2012 i tried to drive the papp research on open source etc. towards some next levels with keeping normal sense and deduction. It frustrates me that it takes so long to make some progress. And seeing your video's with the popper, it should be enough to show overunity, but i didn't know your input. Russ his input was way to much, he is decreasing it but took a long time out before we hopefully soon will work on the testsheets assembled from the theorizing in wintertime, lets say. But all in all if you would have the right papp-mix, then the road towards an engine shouldn't be taking so long, as we at open source have enough info to get the electric side up and running. And if you have any other troubles we are always willing to think along, such suckers we are.
April 10 at 7:08am · 1


Tim Hanzlik I can take the language barrier as a reasonable explanation.
April 10 at 7:09am via mobile


Faraday EZ At 1 minute into the video Bob states he is at 5 to 1, and not near Papps results. Before i read it false, isn't 5 to 1 like 5 input and 1 output? So no overunity?

In reply to: Fa La La - I have never said I was not over unity - can you just not quit making up stories. Also, I don't have ten grand or so for the testing

Anyhow, its confusing to me so i stear on the believe that he hasn't got overunity firmly in his grip

And if he has, then he should make arrangements that the world would still benefit if he was to leave this place. Maybe he has maybe he has not..just one persons opinion..mine. Doesn't matter if i am someone important or not, we all should think the world is important and people that don't agree with that i can't understand.
Rohner Group Current Progress on Twin Engine
www.youtube.com
The Rohner Group presents an update on the technology recovery program currently...See More

April 10 at 2:43pm · Remove Preview


Bob Rohner At one minute into the video, I state that just being over unity is not enough - that Papp was at least 5 to 1 over unity. As John Borsheim so aptly pointed out, we are not playing paty-cakes here.
April 10 at 2:52pm


Faraday EZ Ok, i 'll hold this in mind and hope you read the second halve of my reply. In a way it also feels better to know that at least one has cracked the pappmix to some OU extend so we don't have to feel completely in the dark and can put NGE back on the list of OU devices. Maybe not officially yet, but as by your word. I have no trouble believing a straight answer from you, if it however comes to speculating who is the next dr.dr., i take your view with some more salt...
April 10 at 3:09pm


Faraday EZ As to the mail. It was called "inside Johns shop" not from within... There was a website where someone working with John put up all sorts of info, like on a open source forum. It was open to the public, open to the world. Later the site went behind a login screen on inteligentry stuff and that's that. The site gave a very good insight as to how dr.dr. was working and treating his staff etc. I had the premenission that this info wouldn't be public for any long amount of time so i have made some downloads.
I mailed you to inform you, what you did with the info was up to you, looking up the site to see for yourself or warning your brother. I got wind from it from a post on open source energy org.
April 10 at 3:44pm


Bob Rohner I have to give up - this guy will not cease to twist words and fabricate statements as he runs in circles. Language barrier, I'm not so sure. I apologize to the rest of the forum for letting him draw me into this juvenile turkey shoot.
April 10 at 3:48pm · 1


Faraday EZ [zucht] So i shouldn't give my general account on the items where you want to call me a lier? Its not me starting fights with almost everybody, plus i don't mind to be corrected if its fair.
But be who you are Bob, you're too difficult for me.
April 10 at 4:08pm


Ed Hemphill Dear Mr. Fa Raday ,Can you add any to this group . Do have any technical info that we don't already have. Please share with us . If all you can do is put down our members please go away. Thanks Ed Hemphill
April 10 at 4:25pm


Faraday EZ Its up to you if you think i make sense or not, each player can contribute what they think is meaningful.
April 10 at 4:31pm


Faraday EZ I didn't come here with bad intentions.
April 10 at 4:45pm


Bill Peiman Christopher Wolfer, I posted twice this morning but they don't show up. Can you shed light on this?
April 10 at 4:49pm


Christopher Wolfer I am not sure Bill Peiman sometimes facebook gets a little wonky I had a 3 paragraph reply to Fa Raday but lost it cause I hit the wrong button. The only person that I clean up after is our favorite german which I must say has much improved on posting relevant content. Bob Rohner no need to apologize !
April 10 at 5:20pm · 1


Bill Peiman Thanks, Chris. This one made it. FaRaday [zucht= sigh]. I suggest that you change your approach IF you are committed to making a difference in the world.
Your current communications here are not effective, regardless of your sincerity.
If you are interested in being effective in what you are committed to, rather than feeding your ego, let me know.
April 10 at 6:47pm · 1


Faraday EZ I don't want to fight bill but he knew what buttons to push, i should have ignored it, youre right its not a pleasant sight.
April 11 at 2:38am


Bill Peiman So stop fighting: what you resist, persists.
April 11 at 2:43pm


Faraday EZ Am i still fighting then Bill? The front seems to be empty for a halve day already..lol..and i would love to sweep the floor and produce evidence of all my statements but then i first have to know what now it is that i have said the wrong way. And i'm not hiding behind a language barrier, but i can have a normal misunderstanding like any other sometimes.
April 11 at 2:53pm


Bill Peiman "he knew what buttons to push" training can stop you from reacting to a 'pushed button'. Also, see seem to imply that the button pushing was done on purpose. Are you sure of that? How would you know?
April 11 at 3:01pm


Faraday EZ Well, if i would call you some women that etc. I'm saying i don't take anything you say serious and i also call you my bitch. You can then either ignore or comeback in the same manor and put another notch at it... But i'm not proud about such remarks, its all hollow and testosteron filled.
April 11 at 3:12pm


Faraday EZ And also its part of groupdynamics, as newcomer one has to fight oneself in a bit. And he as topdog has to grauwll at me..so in a way nothing new under the sun.
April 11 at 3:53pm


Faraday EZ And after the fight one sees the lesser dogs taking there shot, like Heinz and Ed. With Heinz i already settled, with ed its still unknown. On the other hand Ed knows me from open-source.
April 11 at 3:57pm


Faraday EZ Ow and there was a will smith taking shots, but i don't know if he deserves much more attention..hehe
April 11 at 3:59pm


Faraday EZ strange world isn't it?
April 11 at 4:03pm


Bill Peiman Every individual gets to determine at all times what is most important in their life.
For me, it is making a large difference in the way the world works. That way my life is not about me anymore.
That means that I take my ego (self) out of the conversa...See More
April 11 at 7:10pm · 3

=========end copy paste==================

I understood from this that Bob has reached overunity etc....but when rereading it i'm not so sure any more.

He never said he had no overunity...but doesn't say he has overunity.... the same with saying overunity isn't enough..that's not saying he has reached it....

So for now i have to admit that you may be right about it...and thats a shame in a way.. Papp's secret is still hidden to everyone then.

(But that you have heard that Bob hasn't reached ou in aug 2012 en in april 2013 he says he never said such a thing makes it a piff no? )

http://pesn.com/2013/07/29/9602347_Plasma-Booster_demonstrated_at_TeslaTech-2013/


:cool:

Quote from element 119 on July 29th, 2013, 11:57 PM

http://pesn.com/2013/07/29/9602347_Plasma-Booster_demonstrated_at_TeslaTech-2013/

:cool:

Timing is everything.  Imagine being there with Joe, Bob and Tom back in the 80's when that engine was running on the dyno.  Makes you wonder why it's so hard to reproduce 30 years later.  I think it says something about the decline of human abilities.  I have a hunch if Bob OpenSourced everything he has, there would still be little to no progress and no running Papp engine today, or within the next couple of years.  Kind of sad.

I think what this boils down to is "I have never said I was not over unity" "I have never said I was over unity".

It may, indeed, be the case that he merely said to me that he could not attest to having achieved over unity.

Quote from FaradayEZ on July 29th, 2013, 07:18 PM

Quote from jabowery on July 29th, 2013, 02:09 PM

Quote from FaradayEZ on July 27th, 2013, 01:14 PM

And as a teaser....we believe that Bob Rohner is genuine..and he has stated that he gets overunity (i hope he meant with his popperdevice) but thinks thats little league stuff and a 5 to 1 ratio is preferable.

No he didn't.

John but not Bob Rohner has made the claim of over unity with his device.

I don't have a voice recording of him saying that to me but I am here to testify, and sign an affidavit if necessary, that Bob Rohner denied having achieved overunity to me last August while I was talking with him in his Rohner Machine Works machine shop in West Liberty, IA.

Moreover, I was passing through Iowa City at the end of June and called him up to see if he had yet achieved over unity with his two cylinder device.  He, again, denied that he had.

My last communication with him was a few days ago during which I suggested he try boron and hydrogen as an additive, based on John Rohner's statement that Papp had described powder in his device as having been boron -- and upon Papp's use of hydrogen (in the form of H2O) in one of this patents.  I've received no response to that suggestion as yet.

Hmm... that's strange, cause i have his writings from facebook, from the Papp NGE Fangroup where i purposely asked him this question.

If you scroll a bit down there, you can come up with the subject:

======copy pasted from facebook============

Christopher Wolfer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XdAnXmVi40

NGE 20.1 Power Speed Popping. Just wanted to see how fast I could pop thins thing! ;) ~Russ
www.youtube.com
Just for fun... Power popping! Freekkng cold! Can't feel my hands! Between 80-100j seems to work the best... For the voltage I was using...
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Tim Hanzlik So he has investors that would like him to protect the intellectual property they are trying to develop. How does that come to the logical conclusion that bob has lost investors? I think you have a lot to contribute EZ, I'm on O-S-E.org too. Sometimes I write a comment and read it and then delete, not to troll, but because I'm trying not to sound like an a-hole because being an a-hole is not my intent here. It's to keep an eye on progress, possibly contribute something or at least Learn as the tech is advanced to working stages. Gives me an advantage for servicing this type of equipment hopefully in the long run.
April 10 at 5:28am via mobile


Faraday EZ I don't know if he lost investors, but he says that i ly about things, and he is most upset, i can't do anything else then divert him to where i got things from.
April 10 at 5:32am


Faraday EZ Lol he even becomes voilent, what a joke, wants to kick me. while he started his lala stuff. I guess growing up with a dr.dr. as big brother etc. etc. oh why should i bother, its too easy. Let him calm down and see i contribute and realize he needs a small kick in the butt once in a while after 30 years of staring.
April 10 at 5:41am


Faraday EZ if chris wants me to delete this post above..i will
April 10 at 5:41am


Tim Hanzlik Having investors and not releasing intellectual property is completely different than having an incorrect mix and losing investors. I like the nobility of open-source Faraday, but not everyone sees it the same way. Bob makes a good point about open-source having issues with people scanning the web for big money interests and ten essentially seizing and taking control of intellectual property. It eliminates a lot of profit potential for someone. I think there's definitely a fine line to walk between open source and protecting intellectual property. So in a way open source could potentially allow the loss of this tech again because the wrong people own the patents.
April 10 at 5:42am via mobile


Faraday EZ Yes, its a tricky debate, but i respect Bob can't tell more then his investors want to. I say he hasn't got the real potential pappmix, because he agrees his engine isn't overunity. And if he had the real Pappmix then he should put it under a gaschromatograph to find out what's it is made of, before he uses all. Either way he then would have the key to make the engine successful, and has had if for a whole bunch of years...so why is the world still without it? Give him his profit and lets move on. I don't mind him getting rich from it, i just want to see it moving forward. Thats why i make the suggestions i made...and if one doesn't trust that, or me, i have no answer to that, what could i say?
April 10 at 5:52am


Bob Rohner I read my comments as instructed and I read yours FaLaLa on this forum - not even close. You've fabricated one story after another for no other reason than to puff your tiny ego. I understand this need. Dr. John was a pathological liar also, who firmly believed that a good lie was always better than the truth. Don't delete anything. This is an open forum.
April 10 at 5:53am


Faraday EZ Again, tell me where i lie
April 10 at 5:55am


Bob Rohner Fa La La - I have never said I was not over unity - can you just not quit making up stories. Also, I don't have ten grand or so for the testing
April 10 at 5:56am


Bob Rohner Did you say (and this is your quote) : "if you are afraid that you won't have a pension, that the papp-engine won't bring in the money,then come live with me, i'll put you up and make sure you have a roof over your head and food."
April 10 at 5:58am


Faraday EZ Yes, you said about your double piston setup that you couldn't say it to be overunity. I never said you have a lot of money to throw around...But i will look back and check again
April 10 at 5:58am


Faraday EZ yes, some words like that, i can provide the open-source-source
April 10 at 5:59am


Bob Rohner Did I say I "Later i found he hasn't got the real mix." Did I say: " Ok, too bad, and he has investors that shut him off.."
April 10 at 5:59am


Faraday EZ No, those are my words
April 10 at 6:00am


Faraday EZ I found due to what you let see that you didn't have the real mix
April 10 at 6:01am


Bob Rohner As Fabricated and pulled out of the air.
April 10 at 6:01am


Faraday EZ And you had investors, so i understood that you couldn't reveal too much
April 10 at 6:02am


Faraday EZ Not fabricated, i'll come up with the source
April 10 at 6:02am


Bob Rohner There is a vast difference against not being willing to tell and telling you I cannot. Pretty much night and day to the normal mind.
April 10 at 6:04am


Bob Rohner There is a vast difference in having investors who worry that I say too much and investors stockholders that want to shut me off. Makes a good story for you though.
April 10 at 6:06am


Faraday EZ There is..but i have to trust what you evidently show and tell. If that jumps to the wrong conclusions you are part of the misinformation
April 10 at 6:06am


Bob Rohner What did I show and tell that convinced you that my investors were going to shut me off, that my gas mix was necessarily incorrect, that I may or may not have been over unity, that I was worried about a pension. My engine goes round and round and needs work mechanically and electrically - so what . If you are going to reach conclusions then state them as such and not some bullPoo facts.

That twin engine by the way was built to work on the crossover - it is new and doesn't even have an output on the crankshaft - I really really doubt I would have made any statement about something that couldn't be measured. Even if it would make a good story, the people on this forum would tear me a new asshole in an instant. You gotta love em!
April 10 at 6:11am


Faraday EZ Not shut you off, shut you up, like not wanting you to tell too much.You had reason not to tell everything, and also made some remark about them being uneasy already with what you where reveiling (from the mind, have to factcheck it) That your mix isn't potent enough i derive from the video of the dual pistons, one of the latest you made, you said in the video that you didn't think it to be ou already, that it needed work. You never stated you where worried about a pension, i stated that if your reasoning for withholding (info about the pappengine) should be worrying about old age etc.
April 10 at 6:22am


Tim Hanzlik I won't delete anymore posts, I promise;). I just think sometimes after re-reading a post if it comes of contrived or completely under thought that it has no need being on the thread. More for the big co's to sort through though I suppose.
Shutting someone off and shutting someone up are 2 different things and improper wording can lead to deleting a comment as I can't just edit comments from my phone.
April 10 at 6:28am via mobile


Faraday EZ I didn't realize that, i was using shutting off as silencing...sorry its not my native language.
April 10 at 6:31am


Faraday EZ Anyhow, i still can't believe that You, Bob, have the real potent papp-mix that can do the job. And if you have then please try to find out its precise content, for the future of mankind etc.
April 10 at 6:37am


Faraday EZ And if it needs outside funding we'll find a way..hopefully.
April 10 at 6:38am


Bob Rohner Very good, I respect your disbelief. Feel free to have opinions all you want. If this is the result of a language difference then I suggest you tell us about yourself so we know. I have Korean friend that drive me nuts with misunderstanding both ways. It's past this old farts bedtime.
April 10 at 6:42am


Faraday EZ There's not much Bob, i want this world to survive. As i told i'm from Holland and interested in stuff that claims to be over unity. When i saw the video with the dynamo attached to the papp engine i believed in it. From august 2012 i tried to drive the papp research on open source etc. towards some next levels with keeping normal sense and deduction. It frustrates me that it takes so long to make some progress. And seeing your video's with the popper, it should be enough to show overunity, but i didn't know your input. Russ his input was way to much, he is decreasing it but took a long time out before we hopefully soon will work on the testsheets assembled from the theorizing in wintertime, lets say. But all in all if you would have the right papp-mix, then the road towards an engine shouldn't be taking so long, as we at open source have enough info to get the electric side up and running. And if you have any other troubles we are always willing to think along, such suckers we are.
April 10 at 7:08am · 1


Tim Hanzlik I can take the language barrier as a reasonable explanation.
April 10 at 7:09am via mobile


Faraday EZ At 1 minute into the video Bob states he is at 5 to 1, and not near Papps results. Before i read it false, isn't 5 to 1 like 5 input and 1 output? So no overunity?

In reply to: Fa La La - I have never said I was not over unity - can you just not quit making up stories. Also, I don't have ten grand or so for the testing

Anyhow, its confusing to me so i stear on the believe that he hasn't got overunity firmly in his grip

And if he has, then he should make arrangements that the world would still benefit if he was to leave this place. Maybe he has maybe he has not..just one persons opinion..mine. Doesn't matter if i am someone important or not, we all should think the world is important and people that don't agree with that i can't understand.
Rohner Group Current Progress on Twin Engine
www.youtube.com
The Rohner Group presents an update on the technology recovery program currently...See More

April 10 at 2:43pm · Remove Preview


Bob Rohner At one minute into the video, I state that just being over unity is not enough - that Papp was at least 5 to 1 over unity. As John Borsheim so aptly pointed out, we are not playing paty-cakes here.
April 10 at 2:52pm


Faraday EZ Ok, i 'll hold this in mind and hope you read the second halve of my reply. In a way it also feels better to know that at least one has cracked the pappmix to some OU extend so we don't have to feel completely in the dark and can put NGE back on the list of OU devices. Maybe not officially yet, but as by your word. I have no trouble believing a straight answer from you, if it however comes to speculating who is the next dr.dr., i take your view with some more salt...
April 10 at 3:09pm


Faraday EZ As to the mail. It was called "inside Johns shop" not from within... There was a website where someone working with John put up all sorts of info, like on a open source forum. It was open to the public, open to the world. Later the site went behind a login screen on inteligentry stuff and that's that. The site gave a very good insight as to how dr.dr. was working and treating his staff etc. I had the premenission that this info wouldn't be public for any long amount of time so i have made some downloads.
I mailed you to inform you, what you did with the info was up to you, looking up the site to see for yourself or warning your brother. I got wind from it from a post on open source energy org.
April 10 at 3:44pm


Bob Rohner I have to give up - this guy will not cease to twist words and fabricate statements as he runs in circles. Language barrier, I'm not so sure. I apologize to the rest of the forum for letting him draw me into this juvenile turkey shoot.
April 10 at 3:48pm · 1


Faraday EZ [zucht] So i shouldn't give my general account on the items where you want to call me a lier? Its not me starting fights with almost everybody, plus i don't mind to be corrected if its fair.
But be who you are Bob, you're too difficult for me.
April 10 at 4:08pm


Ed Hemphill Dear Mr. Fa Raday ,Can you add any to this group . Do have any technical info that we don't already have. Please share with us . If all you can do is put down our members please go away. Thanks Ed Hemphill
April 10 at 4:25pm


Faraday EZ Its up to you if you think i make sense or not, each player can contribute what they think is meaningful.
April 10 at 4:31pm


Faraday EZ I didn't come here with bad intentions.
April 10 at 4:45pm


Bill Peiman Christopher Wolfer, I posted twice this morning but they don't show up. Can you shed light on this?
April 10 at 4:49pm


Christopher Wolfer I am not sure Bill Peiman sometimes facebook gets a little wonky I had a 3 paragraph reply to Fa Raday but lost it cause I hit the wrong button. The only person that I clean up after is our favorite german which I must say has much improved on posting relevant content. Bob Rohner no need to apologize !
April 10 at 5:20pm · 1


Bill Peiman Thanks, Chris. This one made it. FaRaday [zucht= sigh]. I suggest that you change your approach IF you are committed to making a difference in the world.
Your current communications here are not effective, regardless of your sincerity.
If you are interested in being effective in what you are committed to, rather than feeding your ego, let me know.
April 10 at 6:47pm · 1


Faraday EZ I don't want to fight bill but he knew what buttons to push, i should have ignored it, youre right its not a pleasant sight.
April 11 at 2:38am


Bill Peiman So stop fighting: what you resist, persists.
April 11 at 2:43pm


Faraday EZ Am i still fighting then Bill? The front seems to be empty for a halve day already..lol..and i would love to sweep the floor and produce evidence of all my statements but then i first have to know what now it is that i have said the wrong way. And i'm not hiding behind a language barrier, but i can have a normal misunderstanding like any other sometimes.
April 11 at 2:53pm


Bill Peiman "he knew what buttons to push" training can stop you from reacting to a 'pushed button'. Also, see seem to imply that the button pushing was done on purpose. Are you sure of that? How would you know?
April 11 at 3:01pm


Faraday EZ Well, if i would call you some women that etc. I'm saying i don't take anything you say serious and i also call you my bitch. You can then either ignore or comeback in the same manor and put another notch at it... But i'm not proud about such remarks, its all hollow and testosteron filled.
April 11 at 3:12pm


Faraday EZ And also its part of groupdynamics, as newcomer one has to fight oneself in a bit. And he as topdog has to grauwll at me..so in a way nothing new under the sun.
April 11 at 3:53pm


Faraday EZ And after the fight one sees the lesser dogs taking there shot, like Heinz and Ed. With Heinz i already settled, with ed its still unknown. On the other hand Ed knows me from open-source.
April 11 at 3:57pm


Faraday EZ Ow and there was a will smith taking shots, but i don't know if he deserves much more attention..hehe
April 11 at 3:59pm


Faraday EZ strange world isn't it?
April 11 at 4:03pm


Bill Peiman Every individual gets to determine at all times what is most important in their life.
For me, it is making a large difference in the way the world works. That way my life is not about me anymore.
That means that I take my ego (self) out of the conversa...See More
April 11 at 7:10pm · 3

=========end copy paste==================

I understood from this that Bob has reached overunity etc....but when rereading it i'm not so sure any more.

He never said he had no overunity...but doesn't say he has overunity.... the same with saying overunity isn't enough..that's not saying he has reached it....

So for now i have to admit that you may be right about it...and thats a shame in a way.. Papp's secret is still hidden to everyone then.

(But that you have heard that Bob hasn't reached ou in aug 2012 en in april 2013 he says he never said such a thing makes it a piff no? )

Quote from jabowery on July 30th, 2013, 10:08 AM

I think what this boils down to is "I have never said I was not over unity" "I have never said I was over unity".

It may, indeed, be the case that he merely said to me that he could not attest to having achieved over unity.

Yeah, i guess only hard data counts. And i haven't seen any of that around any popper device yet. Which is strange cause to me it would be the first thing one wants to do having such device.

But lets keep hope or perseferance(sp!) that we will rediscover Papp's secrets

Quote from FaradayEZ on July 31st, 2013, 05:16 AM

Thanks EZ

Quote from Dog-One on July 30th, 2013, 02:52 AM

Quote from element 119 on July 29th, 2013, 11:57 PM

http://pesn.com/2013/07/29/9602347_Plasma-Booster_demonstrated_at_TeslaTech-2013/

:cool:

Timing is everything.  Imagine being there with Joe, Bob and Tom back in the 80's when that engine was running on the dyno.  Makes you wonder why it's so hard to reproduce 30 years later.  I think it says something about the decline of human abilities.  I have a hunch if Bob OpenSourced everything he has, there would still be little to no progress and no running Papp engine today, or within the next couple of years.  Kind of sad.

I agree, so lets get the popper into the highschools and universities!!
We old geesers don't have the flexibillity in brains anymore

Quote from FaradayEZ on July 31st, 2013, 05:16 AM

...
But lets keep hope or perseferance(sp!) that we will rediscover Papp's secrets

It would be trivial to put some boron and hydrogen in one of these poppers.

Quote from jabowery on August 4th, 2013, 02:36 PM

Quote from FaradayEZ on July 31st, 2013, 05:16 AM

...
But lets keep hope or perseferance(sp!) that we will rediscover Papp's secrets

It would be trivial to put some boron and hydrogen in one of these poppers.

Hmm, what do you expect from that? By all means, if you have 'legitimate' tests for the popper, lets add them to the testsheets then.

I myself am contemplating the rotating variable distance for the ignitionpoints in the popper, ala the invention of Tesla in the thread http://www.open-source-energy.org/?tid=739&pid=15581#pid15581

But i fear it will make it run chaoticly, better to first try a triple ignition in the time it takes to go to BDC.

--------------------
Looking at Bob's website he is going ahead with rebuilding a gas treatment configuration, and he writes something like that they are getting more grasp on that process etc.

I made a thread  http://www.open-source-energy.org/?tid=1197 and there is a patent about the gasprocessing, but we need input, idea's and someone who recognizes what Papp was doing to the gas to make some progress in that very important area.

Uptil now we tried to make gasclusters, but even that we haven't really taken on with a testing/scientifically method.

Like i said before, there are more popperdevices around here, what has been the progress and the problems?

Quote from FaradayEZ on August 4th, 2013, 03:33 PM

Quote from jabowery on August 4th, 2013, 02:36 PM

Quote from FaradayEZ on July 31st, 2013, 05:16 AM

...
But lets keep hope or perseferance(sp!) that we will rediscover Papp's secrets

It would be trivial to put some boron and hydrogen in one of these poppers.

Hmm, what do you expect from that? By all means, if you have 'legitimate' tests for the popper, lets add them to the testsheets then.

I've written extensively on why I think Papp's central lie was that he was using only noble gasses and why I believe he was also lying about the boron powder being "ash".

Enough talk.  Just do the experiment.

Quote from jabowery on August 4th, 2013, 04:07 PM

I've written extensively on why I think Papp's central lie was that he was using only noble gasses and why I believe he was also lying about the boron powder being "ash".

Enough talk.  Just do the experiment.

I would if i had a popper and was convinced to be able to do it safely. But i shall check if this is already in the testsheet and otherwise add it.

Quote from jabowery on August 4th, 2013, 04:07 PM

I've written extensively on why I think Papp's central lie was that he was using only noble gasses and why I believe he was also lying about the boron powder being "ash".

Enough talk.  Just do the experiment.

Do we know if these two components are consumed in the reactions?  If they act only as a catalyst, I don't think we have anything to lose by trying it.  If they are consumed, do we have any idea at what rate?

Quote from Dog-One on August 5th, 2013, 09:16 PM

Quote from jabowery on August 4th, 2013, 04:07 PM

I've written extensively on why I think Papp's central lie was that he was using only noble gasses and why I believe he was also lying about the boron powder being "ash".

Enough talk.  Just do the experiment.

Do we know if these two components are consumed in the reactions?  If they act only as a catalyst, I don't think we have anything to lose by trying it.  If they are consumed, do we have any idea at what rate?

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion#Candidate_aneutronic_reactions

p+B11=> 3alpha + 8.7MeV

For the energy spectrum of the alphas see:

http://research.duke.edu/sites/default/files/tri-alpha-paper.pdf

About the Boron way...

It could be, but if it is, then Papp is a fraud.

He had the character to be a fraud, and he frauded before.

So...

This test should get priority. Is there a genuine OU process with a 'clean' mix..we haven't found it...is there much more, papplike power with the use of boron? Then how long can it run with that, does that match papp's real running? When yes, then sadly enough papp should be over and buried soon...

Quote from FaradayEZ on August 7th, 2013, 04:40 PM

...This test should get priority. Is there a genuine OU process with a 'clean' mix..we haven't found it...is there much more, papplike power with the use of boron? Then how long can it run with that, does that match papp's real running?

1 gram of hydrogen + boron yields 260 hours of 100 horsepower.  Like I keep saying:  Just put some boron and hydrogen into the cylinder and do the experiment.

6.0221413e+23*8.7Melectronvolt/mole;12g/mole?100hp*hour/g
run that calculation at:
http://www.testardi.com/rich/calchemy2/

and you get

([6.0221413E23 * {8.7 * (mega*electronvolt)}] / mole) * ([12 * gramm] / mole)^-1 ? ([100 * horsepower] * hour) / gramm
= 260.57578 100hp*hour/g

Quote from jabowery on August 8th, 2013, 01:34 AM

Like I keep saying:  Just put some boron and hydrogen into the cylinder and do the experiment.

So that's really your gut feeling after everything you have researched?  It certainly would explain why there is no evidence of any untouched sustained run of the Papp motor for months at a time.  I know if I had a motor like that, a genuine one with no tricks, it would be in my shed running non-stop until it blew-up.  But if I knew it couldn't run sustained, then toying with it for short runs on video would certainly make more sense if I was attempting to milk my investors.  The evidence does tend to point to the later.

Let Russ then make a quick end off it by testing this and taking it to boulder..the truth liberates always.

Quote from FaradayEZ on August 8th, 2013, 09:30 AM

Let Russ then make a quick end off it by testing this and taking it to boulder..the truth liberates always.

Please excuse me, but what does the phrase “taking it to boulder” mean?

Quote from Axil on August 8th, 2013, 09:52 AM

Please excuse me, but what does the phrase “taking it to boulder” mean?

The Global Energy Movement & Conference in Boulder, Colorado, October 10-12.
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=1313

EZ has a good point, if Russ can show some serious Aneutronic Fusion reactions without blowing himself up, that would certainly end the discussion.

Quote from Dog-One on August 8th, 2013, 11:17 AM

...if Russ can show some serious Aneutronic Fusion reactions without blowing himself up, that would certainly end the discussion.

The amount and form of H+B to put in the cylinder for the tests is the main question.

Here's my suggestion:

Look at what Papp wrote/did/said for clues as to how he might have gotten hydrogen and or boron into the cylinder for the Oklahoma test, because that is the best-documented run of his engine we have -- and it is also known to have been a failure until Papp showed up and did something to the fuel mixture.

Quote from jabowery on August 8th, 2013, 12:42 PM

Quote from Dog-One on August 8th, 2013, 11:17 AM

...if Russ can show some serious Aneutronic Fusion reactions without blowing himself up, that would certainly end the discussion.

The amount and form of H+B to put in the cylinder for the tests is the main question.

Here's my suggestion:

Look at what Papp wrote/did/said for clues as to how he might have gotten hydrogen and or boron into the cylinder for the Oklahoma test, because that is the best-documented run of his engine we have -- and it is also known to have been a failure until Papp showed up and did something to the fuel mixture.

The easiest way would be to add Diborane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diborane. Wouldn't after all need much of it. Getting hold of it may be a bit tricky, though. It can spontaneously combust, is poisonous and reacts with moisture (note that Papp insisted on the gas being totally dry). Personally I feel that the trigger for p-B11 is too high unless we get plasmoids and compress them as Koloc stated. Useful to test it out, though.

Hey Russ

I am eager to share information on the Papp engine with you to assist your efforts. It will be worth the call.

I am a Fusion Research Engineer.