Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!

Shainagua

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #75, on June 27th, 2012, 08:58 AM »
Hi Russ,
this is my first comment and I would like to ask in order that you post:

 1 - if you have a modern car and you implement this system, what would happen to the ECU when the negative pulse from VIC mates with the chassis and battery car.
 
2 - I read in the technical report of S. Mayer, to make the VIC he used a torroide core of 1.5 "diameter x .5 thick, can you tell me about it, and what do you think ?

By the way, where you bought the stainless steel wire 430f/fr.

Thanks, I hope your answer.

HMS-776

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #76, on June 27th, 2012, 09:03 PM »Last edited on June 27th, 2012, 09:05 PM by HMS-776
So, is anyone else working on the injector?

Mine is almost complete....Once I finish I will post pics.
All I have left is to add threads and find a 5/16 compression nut? (Anyone know any good resources?)

I have not done anything with it for about a week since I don't have the injector VIC, even though I have all the materials to make one.
It takes a lot of time to make those bobbins. Also, the SS 430 wire I have is Stan's origina wire. As Russ pointed out as well the coating is bad and peeling off of the wire so it's basically junk. The wire I have seems to be in good condition but I don't want to go to all the work of winding the coils only to end up with an internal short.

~Russ

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #77, on June 28th, 2012, 01:20 AM »
Quote from Shainagua on June 27th, 2012, 08:58 AM
Hi Russ,
this is my first comment and I would like to ask in order that you post:

 1 - if you have a modern car and you implement this system, what would happen to the ECU when the negative pulse from VIC mates with the chassis and battery car.
 
2 - I read in the technical report of S. Mayer, to make the VIC he used a torroide core of 1.5 "diameter x .5 thick, can you tell me about it, and what do you think ?

By the way, where you bought the stainless steel wire 430f/fr.

Thanks, I hope your answer.
hello, all questions unanswered.
Quote
1 - if you have a modern car and you implement this system, what would happen to the ECU when the negative pulse from VIC mates with the chassis and battery car.
basically i plan on using a small engine for test platform. i'm trying to prove or disprove stand tech. i dont think in the one to implement it to a " new" car. i'm just here to share all nonage and to give what i can to the public domain.
Quote
2 - I read in the technical report of S. Mayer, to make the VIC he used a torroide core of 1.5 "diameter x .5 thick, can you tell me about it, and what do you think ?
i'm not sure where that out. i know there are some details in the patents and books, some if it is dead on, and some if it is slightly miss leading. but all of it is trying to lead you in the correct direction.
Quote
By the way, where you bought the stainless steel wire 430f/fr.
right now we dont have the SS wire. the stuff i had was from the estate.

hope this helps answer some of your questions?
thanks, ~Russ
RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #78, on June 28th, 2012, 01:43 AM »
Quote from HMS-776 on June 27th, 2012, 09:03 PM
So, is anyone else working on the injector?
Scot has been making one but his lathe broke so its got to be fixed!

The wire samples and ceramic insert i should have some time...

got some end mills need to make some update videos!!!!!

thanks to bob for the end mills, will post more info soon!

~Russ
RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #79, on June 29th, 2012, 03:00 AM »
hello everyone!!!

so i have here some end mills by a fantastic donator named Bob,

bob has been looking into this end mill and his shop and the tool company came up with the same angle:
Quote
Taper@ 2.19157931 (half)  or  4.38315862 included angle
Bob wanted me to make sure to let everyone know that this may be critical and its not the standard 2 degree taper...
Quote
Russ, I was reading on the forums and was concerned about some of the guys thinking this is a standard 2 degree angle, when in fact it is not.
my concern is, if they buy an "of the shelve" standard 2 degree end-mill they will not achieve the EXACT angle as per Stans drawings.
If they use a standard 2 degree angle end-mill then I hope they will make the necessary angle correction's on the tip or "needle point"
of the Positive Probe Assembly drawing, Figure 2-4. If they overlook this vital step, then the two angles of the "tip" and "Conical inner surface"
will not match-up correctly, this could cause major problems since the "gap" between the two surfaces are extremely small, there is no room for error.
I would hate to see someone's work be ruined because of this possible error.
 
just a reminder, the angle was calculated by two separate companies, my machine shop and the manufacture of the end-mill, both companies
calculations were identical. the tapered angle is EXACT as per the drawings.
it was decided to give all info of the company and how to order the end mill if you wish.

here is the info:
Quote
Company: Outils Mora Tools inc.
Tel: 514-334-9205  extension 224     Fax: 514-334-7694
Contact: Andy
Website: www.omtmora.com

End mill spec's

Material: Carbide
Sizes: 2 flute, 30 degree helix, 3/8 dia X 6" shank OAL, flute length 1 1/4,
          Taper@ 2.19157931 (half)  or  4.38315862 included angle.
please include this info:
Quote
When placing an order, please specify the exact material,sizes, and angles so Andy will know what End Mill they are referring too.
I will make a video to get this info out there.

but for now here is the end mill:

[attachment=1924]

here it is in my hands!!! Thanks to BOB!!!! i will be sending this to scot for further creation of the injector:
[attachment=1925]
[attachment=1926]
[attachment=1927]
[attachment=1928]

Manny Blessings go out to everyone Involved!!!

God Bless
~Russ

Jeff Nading

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #80, on June 29th, 2012, 05:34 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on June 29th, 2012, 03:00 AM
hello everyone!!!

so i have here some end mills by a fantastic donator named Bob,

bob has been looking into this end mill and his shop and the tool company came up with the same angle:
Quote
Taper@ 2.19157931 (half)  or  4.38315862 included angle
Bob wanted me to make sure to let everyone know that this may be critical and its not the standard 2 degree taper...
Quote
Russ, I was reading on the forums and was concerned about some of the guys thinking this is a standard 2 degree angle, when in fact it is not.
my concern is, if they buy an "of the shelve" standard 2 degree end-mill they will not achieve the EXACT angle as per Stans drawings.
If they use a standard 2 degree angle end-mill then I hope they will make the necessary angle correction's on the tip or "needle point"
of the Positive Probe Assembly drawing, Figure 2-4. If they overlook this vital step, then the two angles of the "tip" and "Conical inner surface"
will not match-up correctly, this could cause major problems since the "gap" between the two surfaces are extremely small, there is no room for error.
I would hate to see someone's work be ruined because of this possible error.
 
just a reminder, the angle was calculated by two separate companies, my machine shop and the manufacture of the end-mill, both companies
calculations were identical. the tapered angle is EXACT as per the drawings.
it was decided to give all info of the company and how to order the end mill if you wish.

here is the info:
Quote
Company: Outils Mora Tools inc.
Tel: 514-334-9205  extension 224     Fax: 514-334-7694
Contact: Andy
Website: www.omtmora.com

End mill spec's

Material: Carbide
Sizes: 2 flute, 30 degree helix, 3/8 dia X 6" shank OAL, flute length 1 1/4,
          Taper@ 2.19157931 (half)  or  4.38315862 included angle.
please include this info:
Quote
When placing an order, please specify the exact material,sizes, and angles so Andy will know what End Mill they are referring too.
I will make a video to get this info out there.

but for now here is the end mill:



here it is in my hands!!! Thanks to BOB!!!! i will be sending this to scot for further creation of the injector:





Manny Blessings go out to everyone Involved!!!

God Bless
~Russ
Very nice.:cool::D

Badger

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #81, on July 25th, 2012, 06:29 AM »
How are the injectors coming along?  Any updates or pictures?  So far, is it just HMS-776 and Russ/Scot making the injectors?  Saw that post from Artinvegas, maybe he could get on this thread and post some pictures of his injectors?

~Russ

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #82, on July 26th, 2012, 12:09 AM »
Quote from Badger on July 25th, 2012, 06:29 AM
How are the injectors coming along?  Any updates or pictures?  So far, is it just HMS-776 and Russ/Scot making the injectors?  Saw that post from Artinvegas, maybe he could get on this thread and post some pictures of his injectors?
slow but surly here. Scot is doing a wonder full job and i cant think him enough.

i sent art here so maybe he will.

~Russ

VWType181

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #83, on August 2nd, 2012, 11:28 PM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on June 29th, 2012, 03:00 AM
hello everyone!!!

so i have here some end mills by a fantastic donator named Bob,

bob has been looking into this end mill and his shop and the tool company came up with the same angle:
Quote
Taper@ 2.19157931 (half)  or  4.38315862 included angle
Bob wanted me to make sure to let everyone know that this may be critical and its not the standard 2 degree taper...
Quote
Russ, I was reading on the forums and was concerned about some of the guys thinking this is a standard 2 degree angle, when in fact it is not.
my concern is, if they buy an "of the shelve" standard 2 degree end-mill they will not achieve the EXACT angle as per Stans drawings.
If they use a standard 2 degree angle end-mill then I hope they will make the necessary angle correction's on the tip or "needle point"
of the Positive Probe Assembly drawing, Figure 2-4. If they overlook this vital step, then the two angles of the "tip" and "Conical inner surface"
will not match-up correctly, this could cause major problems since the "gap" between the two surfaces are extremely small, there is no room for error.
I would hate to see someone's work be ruined because of this possible error.
 
just a reminder, the angle was calculated by two separate companies, my machine shop and the manufacture of the end-mill, both companies
calculations were identical. the tapered angle is EXACT as per the drawings.
it was decided to give all info of the company and how to order the end mill if you wish.

here is the info:
Quote
Company: Outils Mora Tools inc.
Tel: 514-334-9205  extension 224     Fax: 514-334-7694
Contact: Andy
Website: www.omtmora.com

End mill spec's

Material: Carbide
Sizes: 2 flute, 30 degree helix, 3/8 dia X 6" shank OAL, flute length 1 1/4,
          Taper@ 2.19157931 (half)  or  4.38315862 included angle.
please include this info:
Quote
When placing an order, please specify the exact material,sizes, and angles so Andy will know what End Mill they are referring too.
I will make a video to get this info out there.

but for now here is the end mill:

here it is in my hands!!! Thanks to BOB!!!! i will be sending this to scot for further creation of the injector:

Manny Blessings go out to everyone Involved!!!

God Bless
~Russ
So, nice to see that someone did the trigonometry to find the correct degree. I seen the post for the 2 deg and I was thinking 'nnooooooo!'

I have made my positive probe, going to make the inner housing soon. Nice job on the quenching circuits BTW scot!

One concern I have with the taper mill is that it is two fluted. Most reamers have many flutes to make sure there is no 'walking'. This can be accomplished with 3 flutes in an end mill, although more is better. What I would suggest is making the hole with the mill and then using a tapered reamer. Perhaps Outils Mora Tools Inc could make one of those too?

As for the implementation in 'New' cars, it’s like saying "I want to convert my '04 Malibu to diesel". You just don’t do it; cars are designed then built (most of the time) for these reasons. If we can get the technology out there and shops can make conversion kits for late model cars then great. But if manufacturers start building their cars with this technology from scratch, even better!

On another note, I was wondering if anyone out there knows much about electro-polishing? I have made my positive probe, and have left some material on it for electro-polishing. If someone believes that buffing is better, I'll try it. It only took me about 4hrs to make this probe; if I mess it up I’ll just make another one. But with electro-polishing, you don't have to worry about messing up that perfect angle. The electro-polishing station I have uses a phosphoric acid mix. This is used on stainless all the time to remove heat marks off of welded joints. However the way I understand it (from online research) you need also sulfuric acid in that mix. Anybody heard of this? Know about this? All help is appreciated!! Thanks!

James
RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #84, on August 4th, 2012, 07:08 PM »
Was with my father today who has a degree in tool and die and has had his own t&d machines. Him and me were talking and decided that Teflon would work just fine for the insulator. It is what they use as  a internal spacer in large hard line for RF transmitters. These hard lines are very spacious. It is in a sense coax but with two copper pipes and the spacing is maintained between the shield and the inner conductor with Teflon because its resistance with high voltages, flexibility and price.

So with any luck when I get into work tomorrow (third shift) i will try and make this insulator. Plus with Teflon as the insulator it is auto sealing as it is a little soft. This way I can press fit the probe into it and press fit that assembly in the middle assembly. This also means i wont need the Delrin retainer at the back of the injector.

As for the probe, in my previous post I asked about electro-polishing and I realized that I have a friend that works in a stainless 'to-build' shop and they have electro-polishing equipment that will make you think you have a mirror. However I am still concerned about the out side shell and its conical cavity having to be polished. I know the prints don't say this however if one is polished for reduction of arcing etc then the counter part should be as well. My father had a suggestion on this as well, to use a brass rod that has the proper taper on it and lapping compound. Starting from a course compound working your way up to a finer compound.

He also suggested instead of using the typical spark plug wires or something of the sort, using what the military uses. Water proof plug wires. This way when you drive through water the RF qualities don't change because of the sub-arcing from the termination point and the injector housing.

I think through our conversations today that I got him really excited and he may be joining the team!

Well good luck, best wishes!

Jeff Nading

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #85, on August 4th, 2012, 08:22 PM »
Quote from VWType181 on August 4th, 2012, 07:08 PM
Was with my father today who has a degree in tool and die and has had his own t&d machines. Him and me were talking and decided that Teflon would work just fine for the insulator. It is what they use as  a internal spacer in large hard line for RF transmitters. These hard lines are very spacious. It is in a sense coax but with two copper pipes and the spacing is maintained between the shield and the inner conductor with Teflon because its resistance with high voltages, flexibility and price.

So with any luck when I get into work tomorrow (third shift) i will try and make this insulator. Plus with Teflon as the insulator it is auto sealing as it is a little soft. This way I can press fit the probe into it and press fit that assembly in the middle assembly. This also means i wont need the Delrin retainer at the back of the injector.

As for the probe, in my previous post I asked about electro-polishing and I realized that I have a friend that works in a stainless 'to-build' shop and they have electro-polishing equipment that will make you think you have a mirror. However I am still concerned about the out side shell and its conical cavity having to be polished. I know the prints don't say this however if one is polished for reduction of arcing etc then the counter part should be as well. My father had a suggestion on this as well, to use a brass rod that has the proper taper on it and lapping compound. Starting from a course compound working your way up to a finer compound.

He also suggested instead of using the typical spark plug wires or something of the sort, using what the military uses. Water proof plug wires. This way when you drive through water the RF qualities don't change because of the sub-arcing from the termination point and the injector housing.

I think through our conversations today that I got him really excited and he may be joining the team!

Well good luck, best wishes!
That sounds great James, the ptfe or Teflon I think will work if the temp stays below about 400 degrees F, I use ptfe for the hotends I build for the 3d reprap printers we build here
http://open-source-energy.org/?fid=40

dobieag

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #86, on August 7th, 2012, 01:25 PM »
I'm new to this group but REALLY interested in all of this! I do some woodworking which is a bit different than metal, I think, so I'm not sure how much help I'll be on the manufacturing side of things.

I've got a general question about how Stan made his in the first place. The pics/videos I've seen showed 4 injectors. Does he ever describe anywhere how he made them? Did he go to a machine shop or something near him or did he make them all himself? If he made them all himself, does anyone know about tools he had available? It may lend a little info on how to make the injectors.

Just wondering and thanks SO much for all the work everyone is doing!!
God bless you all,
Mark

VWType181

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #87, on August 7th, 2012, 02:25 PM »Last edited on August 7th, 2012, 02:36 PM by VWType181
Welcome to the gang dobieag!

There is a thread where we have been building parts. Somepeople actually have most of it (if not all of it) complete.

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=536

I myself am trying to build one, going to start with one and put it in a single cylinder small engine.

Its all the other stuff that looks like it might be a little difficult.

I'm sure you'll get more people saying hello so join in the cause!

-EDIT-

LOL, When you have so many threads you subscribe to, its kinda hard to see where the post are coming from. I though that you (dobieag) was posting in the introduction thread, not this one, well anyway you've got the right thread. Best of luck, and let us know if there is anything else you need to help you along!

Buratino

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #88, on October 27th, 2012, 02:57 AM »Last edited on October 27th, 2012, 05:30 AM by Buratino
I do not understand ...
You already building?
You have already received to get this way hydrogen??
RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #89, on October 28th, 2012, 12:44 AM »Last edited on October 28th, 2012, 12:55 AM by Buratino
Quiet, boring, no one. Subject died? Sorry.
start all over again?
Stanley started with large pipes and finished injector
Question .. pipes do not need?: Да:

Lynx

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #90, on October 28th, 2012, 11:18 AM »
Quote from Buratino on October 28th, 2012, 12:44 AM
Quiet, boring, no one. Subject died? Sorry.
start all over again?
Stanley started with large pipes and finished injector
Question .. pipes do not need?: Да:
Correct, Meyer refined his WFC to a single injector, providing gas on demand, taking
away the need to store gas, which is, nedless to say, a kinda dangerous thing to do.
To my knowledge there's no open source documents available (yet) that which
details how to build yourself a working model of any of his machines/inventions,
atleast nothing useful that which meets all the requirements for a 'true' Stanley
Meyer water fuel cell, where all the process parameters are according to the patents,
be it no heat developed in the process, minimum of electric energy input, maximum
output of gas, amongst other things.

Buratino

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #91, on October 28th, 2012, 03:00 PM »Last edited on October 28th, 2012, 03:31 PM by Buratino
I agree that hydrogen is a very dangerous, so you should do the rate on one cylinder. Not more!
But people already do injector Meyer. Thus, people already know how to make hydrogen? Otherwise, why should we spend money, time and be disappointed with the results? May be, because of the silence that they have made themselves hydrogen generator and don't want to die, like Meyer.
Has to go on hydrogen, this is the bomb for oil. It is good for me, for the planet, but bad for the byznesa. We understand this and make yourself quietly and secretly.

Matt Watts

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #92, on October 28th, 2012, 03:24 PM »
Quote from Buratino on October 28th, 2012, 03:00 PM
I agree that hydrogen is very dangerous, so you must make the rate on one cylinder. Not any more!
But people Daedalus injector Meyer. So people already knows how to make hydrogen? Otherwise, why spend the money, time, and be disappointed with the results? Maybe because the silence that they have made ​​themselves a hydrogen generator and do not want to die like Meyer.
Already ride a hydrogen bomb is for the oil. It is good for me, for the planet, but bad for byznesa. We understand this and do yourself a quiet and secret.
There are no secrets for some.  For us?  Yes, lots.  We need to come out in force and build working units, in every garage with all available spare time.  Sites like this one will make the necessary information available.  As we find it, we will post it, in detail.  The goal is to have several complete replications of various technologies and a knowledge base that will last and spread this information to others.  We call it Open Source Research and hope it lives up to Russ Gries' vision.

Jeff Nading

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #93, on October 28th, 2012, 04:08 PM »Last edited on October 28th, 2012, 04:09 PM by Jeff Nading
Dog-one
There are no secrets for some.  For us?  Yes, lots.  We need to come out in force and build working units, in every garage with all available spare time.  Sites like this one will make the necessary information available.  As we find it, we will post it, in detail.  The goal is to have several complete replications of various technologies and a knowledge base that will last and spread this information to others.  We call it Open Source Research and hope it lives up to Russ Gries' vision.[/quote]That's what I'm talking about, Ya!!!! :D:P

~Russ

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #94, on October 29th, 2012, 09:25 PM »
Quote from Dog-One on October 28th, 2012, 03:24 PM
Quote from Buratino on October 28th, 2012, 03:00 PM
I agree that hydrogen is very dangerous, so you must make the rate on one cylinder. Not any more!
But people Daedalus injector Meyer. So people already knows how to make hydrogen? Otherwise, why spend the money, time, and be disappointed with the results? Maybe because the silence that they have made ​​themselves a hydrogen generator and do not want to die like Meyer.
Already ride a hydrogen bomb is for the oil. It is good for me, for the planet, but bad for byznesa. We understand this and do yourself a quiet and secret.
There are no secrets for some.  For us?  Yes, lots.  We need to come out in force and build working units, in every garage with all available spare time.  Sites like this one will make the necessary information available.  As we find it, we will post it, in detail.  The goal is to have several complete replications of various technologies and a knowledge base that will last and spread this information to others.  We call it Open Source Research and hope it lives up to Russ Gries' vision.
:)

yes indeed!

also me and Scot are still slowly working on the injector...

all takes time...

~Russ

Buratino

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #95, on October 30th, 2012, 01:23 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 29th, 2012, 09:25 PM
all takes time... ~Russ
I have a lot of time. But ... to do injector if we do not yet know how to make hydrogen on Meyer?


~Russ

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #96, on October 30th, 2012, 03:07 AM »
Quote from Buratino on October 30th, 2012, 01:23 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 29th, 2012, 09:25 PM
all takes time... ~Russ
I have a lot of time. But ... to do injector if we do not yet know how to make hydrogen on Meyer?
well.. with the injector its all being created in the injector...

i think i'm confused of your question.

~Russ

Buratino

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #97, on October 30th, 2012, 07:13 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 30th, 2012, 03:07 AM
well.. with the injector its all being created in the injector...

i think i'm confused of your question. ~Russ
Blame...badly know the English language. Sorry. Ask for the other : You already know exactly how to make hydrogen by Mayer?If no, the injector does NOT make hydrogen

Jeff Nading

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #98, on October 30th, 2012, 07:47 AM »Last edited on October 30th, 2012, 07:51 AM by Jeff Nading
Quote from Buratino on October 30th, 2012, 07:13 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on October 30th, 2012, 03:07 AM
well.. with the injector its all being created in the injector...

i think i'm confused of your question. ~Russ
Blame...badly know the English language. Sorry. Ask for the other : You already know exactly how to make hydrogen by Mayer?If no, the injector does NOT make hydrogen
Hydrogen production in is the end result of the injector. Most of the electronics, other apparatus and gasses go directly to the injector. So I would say the injector play's a major role in hydrogen production, enables one to produce hydrogen in the cylinder of an engine, with no storage of such:cool::D:P.

Buratino

RE: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #99, on October 30th, 2012, 02:41 PM »
Quote from Jeff Nading link=msg=9192 date=1351608448'

[quote
Hydrogen production in is the end result of the injector.
I don't..there is a difference between 16 pipes and 2 in the injector?
Quote
Most of the electronics, other apparatus and gasses go directly to the injector.
Where to read this?
Quote
So I would say the injector play's a major role in hydrogen production, enables one to produce hydrogen in the cylinder of an engine, with no storage of such:cool::D:P.
Where to read this?