do you mean the vapour exiting the injector nozzle?
Inside the injector it will be liquid water with combusted gases mixed in it, until its split by the electric field, then gas produced.

Quote from brettly on February 15th, 2015, 07:22 AM

do you mean the vapour exiting the injector nozzle?
Inside the injector it will be liquid water with combusted gases mixed in it, until its split by the electric field, then gas produced.

yea well i dont hold much of a candle to this injector. i see a few flaws that might occur.  the supply of water and air mixture not under a high enough pressure, or the volume of fluid is to low.

im glad you have a injector to work with, but it will need a steam chamber under high pressure to work. that's my assumption.
i dont have enough to go on to say if it will fail, only that the concept may be flawed.

i guess it was rude of me to say that,maby i dont have enough information to go on. so instead ill just add a informative video to aid in your endeavor..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QpkmwIoMaY#t=315

Progress Shared from Public Shown Video of this fine work to replicate

PLEASE all Forward to University and school cnc schools and diesel machinists.

Hats off to www.stanmeyersparkplug.com

Progress Shared from Public Shown Video of this fine work to replicate

PLEASE all Forward to University and school cnc schools and diesel machinists.

Hats off to www.stanmeyersparkplug.com

Progress Shared from Public Shown Video of this fine work to replicate

PLEASE all Forward to University and school cnc schools and diesel machinists.

Here is Link for stills
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tl6X5D8L4Z61AOFxnCg0YeFEtrOvhgqVKcly2DTXa4Q/edit?userstoinvite=troconisrodrigo@gmail.com

Hats off to www.stanmeyersparkplug.com

Progress Shared from Public Shown Video of this fine work to replicate

PLEASE all Forward to University and school cnc schools and diesel machinists.

Really Cool to See the Parts getting out to test.
And Faster uptake of the design now

We are  all making time to make
and post the cnc files in multi format for each part to this Forum.

Get the Global Change to Happen

All Cnc Universities Schools and Diesel Machinists show have one of these in production now.

RIP STANLEY MEYERS.

adjustable gap is a good idea,
but who is going to pay close to $1,000usd ( I assume usd) for one sparkplug?
Certainly not diy tinkerers..

We Will Pay !

Bring it on !

Quote from brettly on February 17th, 2015, 11:46 PM

adjustable gap is a good idea,
but who is going to pay close to $1,000usd ( I assume usd) for one sparkplug?
Certainly not diy tinkerers..

for any one who wants to " make one" will spend at least that, tools, ceramic, + time will cost at least that, 1000USD sounds like a lot, but after going thorough the process with scot its worth every bit of of that. sadly. that's an extremely fair price. just my thoughts. ~Russ

Its a small world these days, there are thousands up on thousands of very capable machine shops in china, the metal parts would not cost much to make. Depending how and what you make the insulator out of would be the tricky part. The metal parts I would estimate $50-$100usd
the macor part I dont know how expensive it is. That would be for small number of units.
Crazy to spend so much money.

We all need to make $$ magic

and help order some while they are able to be provided.

Who knows you may make it to 90 years old
and have a dusty old water injector on the shelf to hand to a generation or 2 of kids looking for a fuel source
a few years down the track

Better help out , get it to market
we all sure will try here .

Good luck we are gather the coin jars to order. to help out.
Dan

I'm sure more people will be willing to buy a WFC injector plug after they see some testing done.  There are two hurdles to overcome with this design.  The first one is making the gas, and second is accurate timed non-spark ignition of the produced gas.  I'm betting number 2 is going to be harder than number 1.

i agree FP, if there was proof of this injector working then people would go over board trying to get one... but it this point, its just for those who want to experiment with one, and at that, 1000UDS is no cheep expense for the average " hobby" just to " play" with the idea... not knowing the outcome.  its not an easy thing to just sell... ~Russ

too Russ:
have you got a modified injector drawing that irons out the errors in the previous dimensions/drawings of stans that had some errors as previously brought up in this thread?

Just some thoughts on the one way valve ( spring/ball):
from memory stan was using 135psi? Which happened to be around the max compression of a vw engine. The psi of the spring/ball will need to match the engine its being used on.
For stans engine at max compression when piston at tdc, the valve will close stopping water/gas flow into the voltage zone, any other time valve will be open, and water flow allowed into voltage zone on injector.
Voltage to the injector to split the water would need to be timed in on/off sequence in sinc with the
timing of the engine. Wont need to be 'on' all the time, would be wasteful during exhaust stroke and may cause backfire. Another complexity to factor in.
During exhaust stroke when ball valve is open water flowing into the cylinder via injector will be wasted.

to test/experiment with getting injector system to work, the actual injector is not needed.
SS plates with 1/100th inch spacing, ability to handle 135psi pressure, and a  water/gas mixing device
are the basic parts needed.
I'm thinking the spray end of a petrol injector might be suitable place for mixing device, and voltage zone. The spray end of a petrol injector would be ideal place to mix exhaust/air gases, followed by a voltage zone. Using injector port may also solve problem of wasted water during exhaust stroke ( in some cars). Some cars injectors are not timed to fire only during inlet open time, it might be possible to leave voltage zone 'live' if use the fuel injector ports, would simplify things a bit electronically.
Lets say you could build an adapter that fits at spray end of fuel injectors, that performs these functions, it may be another way to achieve stans system, without modifying spark plug section.
As stan said at new zealand conference its  up to your creativity/imagination on what you do with the technology.
Would be difficult to design such a device but possible.

Quote from brettly on March 8th, 2015, 10:44 PM

Just some thoughts on the one way valve ( spring/ball):
from memory stan was using 135psi? Which happened to be around the max compression of a vw engine. The psi of the spring/ball will need to match the engine its being used on.
For stans engine at max compression when piston at tdc, the valve will close stopping water/gas flow into the voltage zone, any other time valve will be open, and water flow allowed into voltage zone on injector.
Voltage to the injector to split the water would need to be timed in on/off sequence in sinc with the
timing of the engine. Wont need to be 'on' all the time, would be wasteful during exhaust stroke and may cause backfire. Another complexity to factor in.
During exhaust stroke when ball valve is open water flowing into the cylinder via injector will be wasted.

The high pressure water was controlled separate to each spark plug with the solenoid valves shown in the attached picture.  My personal thoughts are that it would be good to have the spark plug's water line turned on, and producing gas all through the intake and compression strokes.  Then what ever needs to be done different to ignite the mix is triggered by the dual laser distributor (no VW cap and rotor).  Figure 6-1: (VIC) Coil Assembly shows that there are dual primary coils.  I suspect one primary has a turns ratio for producing gas, and the other has a turns ratio for some kind of thermo ignition.(spontaneous combustion? :thinking:)

I think he was probably using a pump similar to what crop sprayers use.  They are set to a certain PSI, and stop pumping when they reach that pressure, resuming pumping when pressure drops below.

this is all good, but did u ever thing that the compression alone could ignite the fuel? i did,,,  1000 dollar spark plug, ot 60 cent glow plug, you choose...




by the by a vaporizer is much simpler, and cheaper..  most importantly do u really believe we dont already have them? 

called classified patents. :P

Quote from freethisone on March 9th, 2015, 03:35 PM

this is all good, but did u ever thing that the compression alone could ignite the fuel? i did,,,  1000 dollar spark plug, ot 60 cent glow plug, you choose...

Now that one would be easy to test with a modern diesel car and a balloon full of HHO.  Somehow I don't think it will ignite, and if it does, not at the proper angle before or past TDC depending on your flame rate.

Quote from firepinto on March 9th, 2015, 03:41 PM

Now that one would be easy to test with a modern diesel car and a balloon full of HHO.  Somehow I don't think it will ignite, and if it does, not at the proper angle before or past TDC depending on your flame rate.

my spelling is bad sorry for that.  But it is true Clyde White did this in the year 1920, and is the founder of everything that came after.. I will be taking photos of his journal and posting them to the vaporizer thread as soon as i am able too.

pressure is a key yes. and fuel injectors today are about 55 to 60 psi. used to be 19 psi. and if u go to 100 psi there is greater economy still...

I'm sure stan would have consider ignition by pressure in cylinder, its an interesting aspect to consider, there seems to be quite a few people have tried hho on small motors, they might have some insights on that.
Thanks firepinto for info on solenoids and water pressure, I wan't aware of that,
Since fuel injectors are lower pressure it still might be feasible to use the fuel injectors with some adapter, the lower pressure will simplify the build, I'm guessing his high pressure waterplugs are high pressure to match the engine, rather than being related to the water splitting process.
 Also since valyonpz has shown step charging can occur without direct contact of the water to the stainless steel, that might open up the possiblity of simplifying the electrodes i.e. being located outside of the voltage zone, that also means other materials apart from stainless could be used for the electrodes.
It might even mean its possible to use a 3d printer to make an adapter to go onto a fuel injector, if the electrodes can be on the outside of the voltage zone, the whole adapter could be plastic ( some of level of heat resistance necessary though).

also interesting info firepinto on the dual coils.

A cautionary tale;
in the '70's I worked for Lucas in the electronic ignition design department,
so of course we tried to keep up with engine developments,
there was a report detailing how running the air/fuel ratio leaner
(requiring a 0.035" spark plug gap instead of the usual 0.025")
produced greater fuel economy.
My boss did the required modifications to his 2 litre rover engine.
For a couple of weeks all we would hear is how fantastic it was,
better power AND better fuel economy.
Then after about three weeks, disaster,
one piston had a hole in it and many of the bearings were damaged.
After some research we determined that it was due to the increased flame speed
this caused the burn to move towards detonation.

I don't know but I suspect that HHO-type gas (alone or mixed with petrol)
will have a much higher flame speed
so test HHO systems with a 'sacrificial' engine, not your vehicle engine !
and possibly a bigger spark than normal will be required.

I know that 2H2 + O2 mixtures will detonate with compression,
but I don't know at what point in the compression cycle of a diesel engine this would be.
It may be a good idea to restrict the air inflow for initial testing to reduce the ultimate compression pressure?

In a diesel engine, ignition is timed by injecting the fuel into a pressurized chamber that will immediately ignite the fuel.  There is no relying on the point in time when compression will start igniting fuels for timing. 

Quote from firepinto on March 10th, 2015, 11:03 AM

In a diesel engine, ignition is timed by injecting the fuel into a pressurized chamber that will immediately ignite the fuel.  There is no relying on the point in time when compression will start igniting fuels for timing.

example a 20 to 1 compression ratio.   cranking the motor with the starter gets it burning.
to do it like they did in the 20s you dont even need the carburetor, or spark plug.

look at it this way, a tiny spark caused the Hindenburg to blow up.  Why?  because it was in a gas state, and not in a liquid state.  same applies here. liquid fuel is sent to the injector, and atomized in the chamber. a spark is needed for proper timing, also because the compression ratio of a car is only about 8 to 11 to 1.