^ smart, I'm pretty sure monoatomic hydrogen will always detonate... idk thought tbh

well heres my two cents before I contribute.... the amount of engineering and technical know how that would go into the circuitry for the spark plug is crazy... absolutely crzy/impossible without some sort of deep insight, we only know of 4 inductors that stan used..... there are 5 described in birth, the last one is the multi spool configuration (linear core), we don't have pictures of that one, as it is the last one it seems only right that it would coincide with the last injector in birth... the taper injector.... the one that u guys have the drawings for... we don't have drawings for the first injector... only the taper one.... stan had properties all over the world, the Poo we see in dons photos is a disjointed glimpse into stans magic... weres the easer, gas gun, pressure cooker, big rotary pulse gen, stacked epg, spherical cavities, multi spool configuration, injectors, tapered injectors, water injection system............

I think i need to impedance match my penis to my girlfriends vagina, our alternating current seems to be dissipating a lot of power

heres my progress, i started off with the basics, as even stans most basic circuit is far from basic:

it is with pleasure i post my most recent accomplishment
if you can't see there are two sets of electrodes in the water... the water is tap water, no electrolyte.....  the red Poo is chlorine from the government.. as u can see I'm getting spikes of more than 200 V across the water cells (scope is measuring across cells... yes ground is floating, no I'm not a hack)... with 110 V AC input rectified wall power... that inductor is a modulating inductor with a bifilar wind.... it isn't saturating... I pulse it and let the back emf hit the cell....

funny when i put the flourscent bulb up to the cell it doesn't light up... maybe thats because the bulb reacts to AC?????

I learned everything on irondmax.com... real work is being done over there...

Bubbles + scope shot is rare, yes the production is Poo but remember this is a proof of concept

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNc_5eaAdj4


pm me if you have any questions.... or post a reply....

Stans pictures show ionised air/ recirculated exhaust and water droplets mixing together before being forced into the injector. I mentioned previously that these droplets will coalesce back into bulk liquid form in the injector voltage zone ( from some experiments involving ultrasonic water droplets and hollow staniless steel needle that I did some time ago).
So now that some people have made or have access to stans injector may I suggest an fairly simple experiment to prove my point and see for yourself that it is not droplets that are present in the voltage zone.

If you set up an ultrasonic water fogger, then pump that mist through the injector I will guarantee that no water mist will come out the end of the injector!  Only water as bulk water ( not a fine mist will come out).

The gap stan used: 0.01" is small enough that the fine droplets condense/coalese back into bulk water, so the voltage zone is acting in same way as the wfc, bulk water connection between the pos/neg plates.

If you have the injector where you can adjust the gap, you might find widening the gap at some point you will get water mist coming out, but at 0.01" no mist will come out, only bulk water.
Interestingly that bulk water will have the ionised air and exhaust gas dissolved in it.

There is some misconception that the injector voltage zone works differently to the wfc, but its the same process involving bulk water ( not droplets or fine mist).

brettly,

Any chance this is still true when you subject the output end of the injector to very low atmospheric pressure?

I'm told otherwise, but I still feel the environment of the combustion chamber is necessary for the injector system to operate.  The strong vacuum during the intake stroke would in effect cause water droplets to transform into vapor.  Then an arc at the proper time should cause ignition and the rapid change in pressure over to the positive side.  During combustion with the added heat, I'm still not convinced any vapor would condense back down to droplets; only in the exhaust stroke would I expect this to happen.  Depending upon how the injector was valved, the exhaust stroke may purge the injector, with some liquid being ejected back out.  So it seems feasible to me, when the injector is attached to an engine, liquid condensate may never actually happen during any of the engine strokes.

I would think  its more to do with the size of the gap which the droplets have to traverse through. Lowering the pressure at one end is going to increase the pressure differential from one end of the injector to the other , my experiment was quite simple and I was looking at something else, it just so happened that I found water mist wont travel though a small orifice as droplets, it reverts back to bulk water. In this case its not water vapour turning into a Liquid ( condensation) its droplets colliding into each other and coalescing ( I did refer to condensation in previous post but its not technically correct, I was trying to get a point across).
My intuition is you wont get any mist going through the injector even at high pressure differentials,
the only way to find out really is to try it. What is max pressure differential across the injector?
80-120psi??? My experiment was low pressure, maybe 10psi max ( guesstimate). It had puzzled me for a long time, but my fortuitous experiment lead me to think that its bulk water in the voltage zone.

I'm quite certain stans injector is acting in same way as the wfc ( bulk water in contact between two electrodes), in order to split a water droplet into hho which may or may not have contact with the plates is a completely different thing and I strongly doubt it has anything to do with the injector.  Stans circuitry is designed for water having contact with the electrodes and a certain capacitance of that water, a droplet between two plates will behave in a different manner, and there doesn't appear to be any electronics of stans to tackle that scenario.

I've just read over stans patent for the injector:
http://www.waterfuelcarengine.com/patent-water-fuel-injection-system.html
In his patent he does not mention at all that the water mixture returns to bulk liquid form. He does mention the pressure ( 126psi plus) and he states the water is still in droplet form within the voltage zone. He also states the water is still acting as a capacitive element in the circuit.
This does give the possibility of a simple experiment to determine if stan was correct.......
under 126psi does water mist exit the injector nozzle as mist? If it exits as mist he is correct, if it exits as liquid he was incorrect. I know that under low pressure conditions ( 10-20psi) that water mist will not travel through a 1/100th gap as mist, it will revert back to bulk liquid ( probably by collisions between the droplets).
An alternative experiment would be can water mist remain as a mist under 125psi in a vessel?
If stan was correct it would also mean that water does not need to be in direct contact with the electrodes to still act as a capacitive member of the circuit ( i.e. droplets surrounded by gaseous molecules will still work).
I've never seen any evidence that stan ever got the injector working, not that it means it cant be made to work........can anyone put 126psi or higher though an injector with ultrasonic water mist and see if mist or bulk liquid comes out the injector?
My guess is liquid water will come out......not mist......that doesn't mean the injector cant be made to work, it would be a reason to continue as it would make more sense to me if the water in the injector zone was bulk water ( with dissolved gases), then I think you would have a chance to get it working.

Just looking at videos by electro on youtube,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMDoA-J16fw

he tests a version of stans injector with steam at 4bar ( approx 60psi), the steam exits the nozzle as steam, not converted back to bulk liquid. Assuming the gap is 1/100th inch it looks likely stan is correct. Though I'm not sure if steam is  water in the form of droplets?

It appears steam is a form of water droplet, in the order of microns in size, very small droplets.
While trying to find info on structure of steam I came across this patent:
http://www.google.com/patents/US6623241

It has some info on droplet sizes and coalescence of droplets. It looks once again that stan is correct.

If we are talking about the states of matter; water in particular, we have ice, liquid water and steam.  A condition where there are droplets is probably a combination of two states where there is water droplets and steam, but it could also be water droplets and air.

Having worked with superheated steam, I can tell you that it is purely a gaseous form of water, there are no droplets.  It is just like Nitrogen gas.  However, once this steam loses heat below the boiling point it will begin to condense, preferably on objects that are cooler, but it will condense suspended too and form water droplets.  I would then call this water vapor as it contains droplets and steam, but still has no air or other contaminants in it.

thanks for clarifying Matt. There is of course much known about different states of water,
there will be formulas available for all sorts of things on this topic. It may well be that the temperature of the injector will also be a variable to consider. I'm not sure if there would be any value in going into formulas to determine if the injector is going to liquify the water droplets into bulk water.
It does seem to me to be a fairly important aspect of the injector though, to determine if its working on water droplets or bulk water, or some combination. Since the wfc works on bulk water,
and there appears to be no major changes in the electronics from wfc to the injector, it would make sense to me, that the injector works using condensed droplets of bulk water.
It is certainly clear in stans patent he is saying the water is in the from of droplets in the voltage zone of the injector, I might dig out a few formulas in my spare time and try do some basic calculations on the voltage zone.
There are a couple of parameters that can be used:
dimensions of the voltage zone ( cone with 0.01" gap) and 126 psi or above.
Temperature of the voltage zone might be similar to a spark plug on standard petrol car, I'm not sure if a car on hho will be higher engine temp or lower?
It would be really nice if someone could test an injector with water mist from ultrasonic mister.
If you can see steam then I would assume it contains some droplets? Otherwise it will be invisible would that be correct?

If it is invisible when it first comes out and then turns to visible vapor some distance away, I would suspect it's steam.  Keep in mind though this is at atmospheric temperature.  At 1 psi absolute (like you may find during the intake stroke), this could happen at room temperature, only you may not see the vapor since everything in the engine is at or higher than the dew point.

I tend to agree with you the injector probably works based on bulk water for the reason there simply isn't enough volume or flow rate to produce HHO at the rate needed by the engine.  If you convert liquid straight into HHO gas, you wouldn't need much water, but if you attempted to convert steam or even water vapor to HHO gas, the diameter of the injector simply could not handle the necessary flow rate.  The injector itself would in effect become a critical orifice and no amount of pressure behind it would increase flow rate.

what if the jet hits an object to ricochet off ?   I know if you hit some thing  with hi presure hose , theres a secondary mist .
 what Im suggesting is similar to the tip on a spark plug

Well, if it's HHO coming out the tip of the injector, I'm not clear what you are picturing.

there is a device that uses impact water to run an engine, water at rediculous pressure hits a target in the engine, the velocity of the water jet is so high, the water breaks up into h and o, and
gives off energy I guess when it recombines, this guy has some working engines using the principle
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrrh-5qL4eaJKThQLwvnUWA

if its only gas then its pneumatic , but if there is water within the main injector body then its liquid over gas ,which is hydraulics .
Ive heard about high presure breaking water by impact .....  which goes against the vacuum theory of decompression pulling water apart .
Id expect the high presure water to cut the jet orifice , theoretically with bearing surfaces , the harder surface gets worn down.... if the jet doesnt wear , then the water or gas (both) is harder than the metal :0/

rally cars in the 70s + 80s had water injection before rules were applied and water injection was banned.

 Injectors Presentation share from web

From Mckane at Conference feel it is import to keep discussions going

https://youtu.be/-JVctKk_W0I

Where are the results of testing the injector with the correct vic coil?
So now that some people have the injectors, surely someone is trying to split water with them?
Can anyone post some results good or bad of testing the injectors with water under pressure and
the vic coil and associated electronics?
The test referred in the video of a compressional wave, I believe stan was referring to compression of the electrical wave, not anything to do with the shape of a water stream coming out the end of the injector.
It should be possible to have a flame come out the end of the injector, now that would be impressive, my hat goes off to all the work/expense some have put into making the injector.
I'm sure there are alot of people out there waiting to see if anyone can actual split water with it,
surely someone is doing that?

I've said it once, and I've said it more times than i can count. There is no one going to get the water-injector to work without knowing how to build a VIC for it. It is more complex than the one for the water fuel cell. If and When people starts to understand the VIC for the water fuel cell and Gas Processor, Then and only then will anyone have a chance at the water-injector. Those that has one just as well carry it around in there front pants pocket for show and tell. For that is all it will ever be worth to them, until they get around to understanding the VIC for the fuel cell first.

Not trying to be mean or anything, But the truth is the truth! Prove me wrong, and I will be the first to admit it to everyone.

Stan would have love to had this guy to make the slide shows for him, for he does a great job at that. (Giving credit where credit is due.)
But that guy has no clue how the VIC will ever work for the water injector.
As you seen and he told in the video, they are several things taking place all through the injector plug.
He put's on a good show and reads word for word out of the Tech Brief, But lets see if he ever builds a VIC to do all those things he says is going on all through out the plug.

This is all the water that the plug is spraying into the engine per cycle. I don't call this a stream of water.

The VIC for the water fuel cell is one of the most simplest versions of the VIC. If people can't get it to do what it is suppose to do, how in the world is anyone going to understand the complexity of the water-injector version? Beyond me!

Knowing what i know about the water fuel cell VIC, I am being honest here, I doubt that I could ever build a VIC for the water injector.
I just can't see myself working out all the math involved in making the VIC do the job of the fuel cell and gas processor all wrapped up in one package with a gap as small as it has.

Please tell me, I want to know the thinking behind this.
 

 

wrong post

Thanks Webmug for that post, It shows a man that has did his homework. Great Job.
 And you are exactly right about the 6 cell vers. 10 cells. I made the 6 cell because of the cost vers. the 10 cell so I could prove to myself i could get it to work. I have no clue if It can produce enough gas to run an engine without running it through a couple gas processors. I'm sure one gas processor will not do the job. If I have to I can build a 10 cell if need be. Just didn't want to keep throwing money at something if i could get it working.

Again I am very surprised at the work and research you have put into your post. And it is very accurate information.

to  gpssonar:

I thought the injector vic had been copied from one in stans estate? so no need to design it from scratch, russ posted a video of an injector vic copy of original of stans estate?

@ brettly,
Yes Russ made a vic for the injector, and a video to go along with it. You can ask him what his success was with it. I have 4 or 5 sets of bobbins for it here that i machined. They are on the self somewhere collecting dust. Russ got some of Stan's SS wire when it was being sold or given out to people. Try getting your hands on some coated SS wire you will be paying big bucks for it. Then you will know why my bobbins are on the self collecting dust. Didn't take me long to forget about that project real fast. I believe in everything Stan made. But I am not going into a territory that is going to cost me an arm and leg to get off the ground.

 Very Interesting Responses

My hats off to Mckane and the other working in the back rooms where ever they may be.

We all should do what we can to support any one progressing. 

Happy New Year 2016 Smile and Be happy tech is already around the world

@gpssonar
I see in another thread you posted all the data related to stans wfc vic from original of stans ( via don).
Do you have or have you posted the data for the injector vic?
Can I confirm the picture below is believed to be stans vic that goes with the injector?
( there are cheap sources of coated ss wire but are somewhat thicker than that required infortunately, if its possible to use thicker ss wire then it can be done cheaply).

examples of cheap stainless steel coated wire ( down to 0.3mm dia, not thin enough I know, but it shows that ss wire doesn't need to be expensive by any means)
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20160102215700&SearchText=stainless+steel+tiger+tail

or coated stainless steel fishing line ( 10lb breaking strain seems to be about the thinnest, equates to 0.15mmdia or 0.008inch?) such as this one on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Woodstock-Stainless-Steel-Fishing-Wire/dp/B0084ORP7K

seems there are plenty of ss 304 type coated fishing wire available.
What thickness is required for stans injector vic?