Dan has anyone gotten the VIC board to work?  I have been just trying to understand the layout and somethings do not match the K4 Cell Driver and the K21 Phase lock circuit.

I am in the process of looking at the trace for each circuit to see if the match.  Started to do this as I wondered what was on TP2 and the Analog Freq switch.  Turns out signal from TPS2 goes to center pin of  Analog Freq switch and signal pin on test point on upper right.  In the picture below I have put boxes around K14 Pulser Indicator Circuit (light blue) and the K4 the Cell Driver Circuit (red).  Having trouble matching K4 to original circuit drawings. 

There is one item in K14 that is wrong there is a line going from top 10K resister that goes to +5V input pin 2 it should go to input pin 3 FB B.S.  I think this was fixed in later versions of board.  See picture below

I started with the G input and trying to follow it through using the traces in gerber files you sent.  There are problems starting with the 4 way switch which did not have the 1x label.

G input goes to pin of 4046 and switch com as is should.
Pin 4 of 4046 should go to switch x1 and it does not
Line from 10K transistor goes to switch X1 and it should go to switch com
see picture

Then things really get confusing there is line from switch com that goes to couple of places in the cell driver circuit that are not on the original schematic.  Looks like all the parts are there just hooked up different.  I think I will need to draw out the circuit with this routing to see if I can make sense of it.

HI Earl
there  2 close version of vic people have made edits and have them working
for this version i have it is the better one

if there is a line change can you put yellow line on pic dot to dot
so we make change if needed based on your bread board tests.
===================================================
suggest we check migration of k3 to new board
populate k3 and ensure matrix working with them so that
we have signal out of db9 before changing pins on vic

lucking we have things on pcb and Gerber to see and check traces
with out it impossible so at least

we have a platform to error check together and it can be done step by step

Dan

 

Earl checking cards here I see this one
Re Gerber Charged We make on file name version as we edit

for others
 

1 note
I started with the G input and trying to follow it through using the traces in gerber files you sent. 
There are problems starting with the 4 way switch which did not have the 1x label.
we added to gerber now

==========================================================
2n note

G input goes to pin of 4046 and switch com as is should.
Pin 4 of 4046 should go to switch x1 and it does not
Line from 10K transistor goes to switch X1 and it should go to switch com

this one  2nd  need you mark exactly in yellow so we can correct it

That cross jumper is not on greber trace you sent me and I think is wrong anyway.  Reason;  I connects one side of feedback to +5 volts.  While there is 5 volt feed to the feedback coils this would add 5 volts to return do not want to do that.  The 5 volts need to fed into center of coils and I did that in my test system.  I think Stan did that close to his coils.

Also if you connect this jumper you will have the feedback signal on the 5V going to 741 on right.  I saw the jumper to fix this on pictures in here when I was looking at what is on board pins for you.  It is very subtle and I missed where it went several times.  You also can see the trace cuts on that board where them fixed and soldered the jumper to the trace.

I am extremely glad you sent the gerber file as it make it so much easier to follow traces.  I just downloaded a free viewer so I could see them.  That is also a big help as I can turn layers on and off.  I think the picture below would be easiest way to fix this if redoing board.

Is this a good format to indicate changes?

updated

Can use those pic for show new yellow or other deletion changes may be clearer  for me to follow Dan

 updated

Fix G input to Cell Driver

To avoid confusion, I am going to break fixes up into pieces

The first picture (back traces) below removes a line that should not be there at all (long yellow line).  There should have only been the trace right below it.  It all moves the lower trace from 1x connection on right and reconnects to COM on left.  This fixes the G input to Cell Driver part of VIC.

The second picture (front traces) adds the 1x input to 4-way switch.  It is the orange line, very short, that connect Pin4 of 4046 to 1x on left side of side pads.   This is the high frequency output of the 4046. 
Note1: this is where the long line removed above terminated.
Note 2:  FYI in this picture you can also see the 4046 pin 3 input to COM it should be there.

At this point I have not yet looked at the rests of this part of the circuit in detail. Though the inputs to the other 4-way pads look right with these changes.

I am going to do the cell driver section starting from the bottom and working up as that is the way the signal flows through the circuit.

Earl yes that is easier to follow
noted and  making some corrections for Ver 1.4

Dan

I tried something different found I could paste more that one picture in One Note so did both layers and then top and bottom separate so it is easier to see what needs to be done.  I also included by hand drawn version of the cell driver circuit I used to build test board as it show ground power and orientation of transistors as it changes depending on type NPN vs PNP.

I did not mark where to get 12v input to .33uf cap.

Besides errors there a few things that are not used which I indicated.

Dan Actually have a question for you if you if you look at my hand drawn sketch above I have but the diode and 220 resistor across the primary transformer in parallel.  I have also wondered if they should be series?  Do you know which is correct?

Hi Earl Great

I have been looking at the sections you marked  i have added notes and more sections as we work so people can follow what we are doing ,

please square off the remaining sections as you work  to identify each
 and we can try to put the reference to them like   k4 etc as you done already
and the fig 5 etc as i did so the mystery of the vic is solved

this should allow fast uptake and understanding of what it is doing
as not every one is going to invest the huge reading we have done

Attached
this is what silk on top of Ver 1.4 is at present we can keep adding changes and notes I am reviewing your last post
I square off board as it will be Db 37 in version 2 to allow room for label index on board aka training board left by
Stan and Stephen Meyers i turned the sketch around to allow people read  easy

Dan

hand drawn sketch above I have but the diode and 220 resistor across the primary transformer in parallel.
 I have also wondered if they should be series?

to m it looks like the diode is in parallel to primary which is a resistor
the answer is out there in the forum or in videos i will go looking again
when in doubt use Stans notes
https://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3474.msg55315#msg55315
Dan

things to consider in the cell driver arrangement  "falling edge" and Offsets
===================
notes  that are connected to it
i post some of the notes on these areas

Look at the analog circuit. Look at the transistor,
(the npn darlington pair) does an npn belong there?
Is this a mistake?the npn is fine  the circuit is fine

talking about the amplifying transistors, Q5 and Q4,
Analog circuit of the international patent.
Try to draw current through an npn transistor, connecting the collector to vcc
 
use an optocoupler to a 2n3055
more or less a Darlington pair
the 2n3055 will handle 15 amps, the optocouple only passes the amps needed for the base turn on of the 2n3055

same thing with the meyer schematic.
the tip120 is a Darlington transistor , the rest of the driver just needs to turn on the base of the tip120
all current then passes through the tip 120, not the rest of the circuit. they are just simple transistors. with pull down resistors and bias resistors.
 
You are just using 1 driving transistor between ground and your coil right?
An npn works there.. Im not questioning that
 
But i find it strange that the 2n3055 (which is more of An audio transistor is used to switch, and a tip 120
Is used for an analog function... Seems reversed
 
that 2n3055 on the heat sink of the vic is used as a voltage regulator. to manually turn the voltage up and down. the voltage control circuit is on the vic board.  so he can change the voltage into the primary up and down
 
yes the 2n3055 is used in radio amplifiers, but its just a transistor and is what it does here is similar to an amplifier. biased voltage on the base ,the tip120 is a Darlington transistor which is faster then a single transistor. so the on and off pulse for the coil is fast the voltage change can be slower

The tip is actually switching
The coil. That makes sense.

==============================

HMS and Matt Made some comments I post here
ou will likely have to change some of the resistor values to get it working correctly. I just drew it up without checking the values in my circuit as I've made so many changes to it over the last few weeks. It drives the coil just fine but no resonance so no guarantees it will work.

Lately Matt and others have discovered that Stan's Drive circuit changes the duty cycle as the frequency changes, mine does not do that.
The work continues, now you guys know how to get variable amplitude pulsing during the off time though!

Also, if you want to add a DC bias simply connect a pot from Vdd to gnd then put the center pin on the base of the Tip120, that's what I'm doing, using a 5k pot with a 1K resistor at the Tip120 base.
===================
lately Matt and others have discovered that Stan's Drive circuit changes the duty cycle as the frequency changes, mine does not do that.
My suspicion is this tapered duty cycle relates to the L1 & L2 coils:  pulse-off-time effecting the L2 & pulse-on-time effecting the L1.  Just a hunch at this point.  What is clear to me though is Stan's circuit manipulates the duty cycle for a reason, else he would have used a much more simple drive mechanism.

Ronnie did mention somewhere among the hurricane of posts that impedance match has two criteria:  One when the pulse is on and the other when the pulse is off.  Again, there must be a reason and I suspect the chokes and duty cycle play into this.

Earl Re this What is the note for the power mean here ?
what is any change do you want here

re this change

The note on power was just information as I needed that to decide which way the Q6 need to be orientated and the C and E are collector and emitter so you know which why the chip goes.  The fact that when you look at flat side PNP emitter is on right for NPP it is not left.  Easy to tell when looking at circuit diagram but with out labels and transistor outline no way to tell when building circuit which is why I put them on here.  Turns out all the collectors are all on the left but top and bottom need to flat down and middle up. It has to be that way due to way traces run.    As you know this is not always true as they get turned around to make easy to lay out traces.

The circuit you posted above is the way I have mine wired as Ronnie said you need 220 ohm resistor for impedance balance.  Just wondering if that defeats the purpose of the diode when they are in parallel. 

For the one with orange the trace just to right need to be conned to pin on left side of 1x new trace will be about 1/8" long.  I think it got left off do the trace that should not have been there. Trace  needs to connect to small landing pad.

I do plan to look at the whole board just have gotten that far yet.  Like the new labels they take some of the mystery of the board.  As far as I can tell it is just a collection of his basic circuits.

The K22 Resonant Scanning part of the board was fairly clean. The first picture shows where it is located on the board.  Only missing item is the landing pad for the Manual / Auto switch.  FYI the items in between green boxes on left are part of K21 and interface directly with K22.

Only found two things.  There is no 22K ohms resister in the K22 circuit.  Making the minor changes noted with take it out of the circuit.

Only other item is 47pF capacitor in the schematic it is 10pF which I used in my test circuit.  Not sure 47pf is wrong only that it different.  NOTE:  I did check photo of VIC board and while it says 10UF on board there is a 47pF capacitor installed so I would leave it on changed.

I also traced the E and F that go to K21 and 4046 back to the pins on the 4046.  Did not trace the L signal that far as it goes through more chips.

First picture show K22 circuit location.  Second picture the one fix that is needed.

While I was checking capacitor value on original VIC picture I could see where there was a jumper that make correction I ask you to make to get signal into cell driver.  I could also see they line (jumper) I asked you to remove.  But I do not think it goes where that trace showed.  It went to the 22K in the cell driver area but it does not look like it is connected to that circuit rather the 22K other side  goes to 2 wires not sure yet where they go or why.  At any rate routing on current board was wrong.

It also looks like Stan did not connect a 4-way switch no switch wires connecting to landing pads other than the 2 above wires.

Ok Earl Noted all

I am adjust the Gerber best i can adding detail , it will be ver 1.4,
i will send for your morning and review it is becoming very clear to see things now with more areas marked

Dan

 Earl

 I post vic gerber 1.4 here soon just checking

Earl For this I post into Vic Thread
pic just for people following

Version 1,4 see ver 1.5 now
Checking for the corrections

here is gerber file so far please double check if I  got the corrections right
I am here to continue making corrections or check as you identify
 
I did all up to last post
added labeling and db 37
 
anything i missed please re show on pic so i can do immediate
if any other areas k22 etc identified please mark out  section and i add to top silk
I think there is voltage control and possible phase/ falling edge control

Dan

Dan will verify corrections

This morning I looked at K21 part of circuit. It looks real good main thing I found is both MC14001BCP chips are miss labeled they both should be MC4001BCP.  (Verified looking at estate picture FYI MC14001BCP is a 16 pin chip)

K21 and K22 circuits overlap at the bottom as they use different pins on the same chips. 

Couple of FY1 Notes:
The routing for the green LED is different than schematic but match the estate picture of board (Schematic shows LED feed coming from last 4017 board has it coming from pins 9 &11 of 4001 in lower right of board).

Routing of the L signal goes through extra gates on left 4001 and the way to 4016 that do not show on schematic. Possible it was done that way to added extra delay to signal.

Dan a couple of corrections, but looking good.  Still a few things I am trying to figure out.  Main one being the jumpers, resistor and capacitor in the yellow circle in second picture.  I make set this aside for a little bit not thinking clearly today.  Would be easier to figure out where wires go if we knew why they are there.  It is clear in other cases that jumper are just fixes to problems with the initial board layout.  I still need to finish the item on the left of the board and the off board connections.

ok we are making some preparation on main board etc
all is good we just pland for tidy up of connection wire from db9 to db 37 latter

Attached are the Changes ver 1.5

woops sorry rename file and re attached same file just correct 1.5 name
Dan