Understanding SM Driver Circuit, Building A Test Driver Voltage control Board

haxar

Re: Understanding SM Driver Circuit, Building A Test Driver Voltage control Board
« Reply #451, on March 6th, 2017, 12:44 AM »Last edited on March 6th, 2017, 12:51 AM
L.M.D. reminds me of Daniel Nunez's experiments on his Vortex coils, using resonance with no resistors to light an LED with barely any current consumed. Add any resistor, and it won't light.

Here's this: Add a resistor, you add a load, consuming electrons. Take a long loop of wire with a high impedance, and you have a pick-up coil, not a load. These two do not behave the same way, in regards to impedance and load.

Matt Watts

Re: Understanding SM Driver Circuit, Building A Test Driver Voltage control Board
« Reply #452, on March 7th, 2017, 05:01 PM »
Hopefully with the deltaavalon.com site no longer operational, there isn't any copyright violation by posting this.  If there is, I'll take it down.  In the meantime I think it is worth looking at.  There is a lot of information packed in this presentation you can research further if you so desire.  The main topics I'd like to direct your attention to is the existence of a dielectric field and the necessity of containing this field in what Stan refers to as a wave guide.  And though the VIC looks much different than a Tesla coil, I do tend to think it is providing the same overall function--the creation of L.M.D. waves that are used to separate the water molecules.  If I'm wrong, please do state your case for all of us to discuss.  Right or wrong, we need to get to the bottom of how this device actually performs the way Stan suggested it does.

Matt Watts

Re: Understanding SM Driver Circuit, Building A Test Driver Voltage control Board
« Reply #456, on March 8th, 2017, 02:47 AM »Last edited on March 8th, 2017, 02:50 AM
Quote from andy on March 8th, 2017, 12:42 AM
Do you tested your new fabricated board with VIC new coils from Russ?
You mean these?


These boards are sweet.  Took the first one out of the envelope, put it in the vice, soldered on all the components and it works like a charm.  But no, I haven't tested it yet with the new coils because, well, Russ is taking one day at a time.  We'll get there gang.

In the meantime, I'll work on a video to show what these do, how you tune them to initial settings and let you see them in action.  Then you all can decide if you want to jump in or wait for the "Stan Original" version.  Personally, I think you'll like these.  I also think if we figure out "the coil magic", they'll do the job just fine.

Webmug

Re: Understanding SM Driver Circuit, Building A Test Driver Voltage control Board
« Reply #464, on March 9th, 2017, 06:36 AM »Last edited on March 9th, 2017, 06:50 AM
Quote from Matt Watts on March 9th, 2017, 05:53 AM
https://vimeo.com/207613782

I'm no Russ Gries with video work, but hopefully you get the picture clear enough to know what to do next.
Great informative video Matt!!  :thumbsup2: :thumbsup2:
Thanks!

What signal are you generating? Sine?

What you can do is place a secondary coil with a cap in series on your core and then find the resonance frequency of that tank. Pulsing the primary coil. The feedback should pickup the resonance frequency of the tank (seeing a sine 50% DU).

~webmug

Matt Watts

Re: Understanding SM Driver Circuit, Building A Test Driver Voltage control Board
« Reply #465, on March 9th, 2017, 07:19 AM »
Quote from Webmug on March 9th, 2017, 06:36 AM
Great informative video
You're welcome.  A few blunders in there with the units I stated, but hopefully everyone knows what I meant.
Quote from Webmug on March 9th, 2017, 06:36 AM
What signal are you generating? Sine?
It was actually set to square wave, but I just tried it with sine and triangle and the feedback signal is identical.  If I change the duty cycle you can see it.  You can see narrow pulses too.  The nice thing is the PLL tracks the frequency regardless of the wave shape the comparator gives it.
Quote from Webmug on March 9th, 2017, 06:36 AM
What you can do is place a secondary coil with a cap in series on your core and then find the resonance frequency of that tank. Pulsing the primary coil. The feedback should pickup the resonance frequency of the tank (seeing a sine 50% DU).
Maybe, maybe not.  It depends on which "signal" is stronger.  Keep in mind the primary IS a tank circuit coupled with the capacitors in the driver and power rails.  This is my thinking anyway with why I'm able to get it to resonate with no secondary to speak of.  It could also be a factor of connecting the scope--that's added capacitance on the primary side.  The negative side of the scope is a lot of capacitance since it's earth grounded.

But yes, I've driven a tank circuit with this board and it does find and lock to what I think is the fundamental frequency.  I haven't run the numbers to be sure.  I can accurately measure the capacitance and frequency and use those two values to calculate what I think the inductance is.  I'm not sure LCR meters do it this way, but it's how I would do it, especially in this situation.  Then you'd know exactly what the parameters are in the exact conditions you are testing for.  Other methods would seem to be rather synthetic.

There's a lot of experimenting that can be done and it's probably worth the time to use a little imagination and get a feel for all the behaviors this driver can elicit.  The more you know, hopefully the less mistakes you make and the quicker you converge on a solution.

~Russ

Re: Understanding SM Driver Circuit, Building A Test Driver Voltage control Board
« Reply #466, on March 9th, 2017, 10:04 AM »
Nice work Matt,
great informative video.

coils out the door soon...

also, one more thing to adjust.

the low end of the pulse. ( let it be 2V) thats controlled by a resistor, can we place a pot in there? will it adjust correctly?

only thing i can think of.

looks clean, that current scene transformer looks kike its picking up that sig really nicely.

i think we may need to take in to consideration the time it takes for that "loop" to do its thing ( there is all ways a tinny delay on those current scene transformers) have you looked at the spec sheet to determon the delay and if its something to worry about?

any how just some thoughts.

I like the color of those boards :)

~Russ



Matt Watts

Re: Understanding SM Driver Circuit, Building A Test Driver Voltage control Board
« Reply #467, on March 9th, 2017, 12:08 PM »
Quote from ~Russ on March 9th, 2017, 10:04 AM
also, one more thing to adjust.

the low end of the pulse. ( let it be 2V) thats controlled by a resistor, can we place a pot in there? will it adjust correctly?
Not sure I know what you are referring to Russ.  Are you talking about the base frequency when out of lock?

I suppose you could put some adjustment in there.  Right now it's a fixed 82K resistor that sets the oscillation pretty close to 1kHz.  Seems like I thought about adding a pot for this, but when I tested it I discovered the capacitor is really what sets the bottom of the range.  There is some adjustment there with a resistor but it's rather arbitrary, not absolute like you are probably thinking.

The reason for this resistor being there at all is so the VCO is always running.  That way you always have some sort of signal.  You need some kind of signal in order to get any feedback.  Once you get feedback, the PLL should start converging on any resonance it is able to pick up.  This process of convergence is much like Stan's scanning method, only many times faster.

I can tell you this much for certain.  If we get a proper set of coils and fuel cell to work, it will be simple to determine the normal operating conditions and modify this driver board to stay within those operating condition.  When that's complete, the driver will be almost entirely plug-n-play.  Turn it on and it will work, every time unless something in the VIC or cell is broke or knocked way out of adjustment.  And if that isn't quite possible, then it's time to add in an embedded processor to immediately tune all the pots and keep/get things functioning.  This 5.0 board is mostly a step in that direction.  Version 10.0 may well be the one everybody wants, because it will get the cell working and if it can't, it will tell you why, what you need to fix.

Matt Watts

Re: Understanding SM Driver Circuit, Building A Test Driver Voltage control Board
« Reply #468, on March 9th, 2017, 12:44 PM »Last edited on March 10th, 2017, 08:29 PM
One last note about this 5.0 board.

My biggest fear of this board being a failure is in regards to the input/output frequency ratio.  I simply do not know if the frequency we are sending to the VIC should be a multiple or fraction of the frequency we see coming back via the feedback.  If I had certainty some ratio exists, I would have added some ripple counters front and back of the PLL to allow for this.  My hunch is there may be such a ratio, but I don't know what it is at this point.  Once we determine if there is one and it has a fixed value, version 6.0 can incorporate the circuitry to implement it.

It's also possible the correct method isn't to implement a frequency ratio.  It could be that we actually want the PLL to constantly overshoot/undershoot, continually hunting for lock.  I just can't say at this point.  I do know the more we experiment, the more variables we may find, but at the same time, the more variables we may solve.  As long as we don't run out of time, resources or imagination, the solution will become apparent.

~Russ

Re: Understanding SM Driver Circuit, Building A Test Driver Voltage control Board
« Reply #469, on March 9th, 2017, 01:00 PM »
Quote from Matt Watts on March 9th, 2017, 12:08 PM
Not sure I know what you are referring to Russ.  Are you talking about the base frequency when out of lock?

I suppose you could put some adjustment in there.  Right now it's a fixed 82K resistor that sets the oscillation pretty close to 1kHz.  Seems like I thought about adding a pot for this, but when I tested it I discovered the capacitor is really what sets the bottom of the range.  There is some adjustment there with a resistor but it's rather arbitrary, not absolute like you are probably thinking.

The reason for this resistor being there at all is so the VCO is always running.  That way you always have some sort of signal.  You need some kind of signal in order to get any feedback.  Once you get feedback, the PLL should start converging on any resonance it is able to pick up.  This process of convergence is much like Stan's scanning method, only many times faster.

I can tell you this much for certain.  If we get a proper set of coils and fuel cell to work, it will be simple to determine the normal operating conditions and modify this driver board to stay within those operating condition.  When that's complete, the driver will be almost entirely plug-n-play.  Turn it on and it will work, every time unless something in the VIC or cell is broke or knocked way out of adjustment.  And if that isn't quite possible, then it's time to add in an embedded processor to immediately tune all the pots and keep/get things functioning.  This 5.0 board is mostly a step in that direction.  Version 10.0 may well be the one everybody wants, because it will get the cell working and if it can't, it will tell you why, what you need to fix.
no no no, lol

i was talking about the "DC bias" so the " low' of the pulse.

not the frequency.

~Russ

haxar

Re: Understanding SM Driver Circuit, Building A Test Driver Voltage control Board
« Reply #470, on March 9th, 2017, 02:07 PM »
Quote from Matt Watts on March 9th, 2017, 12:08 PM
And if that isn't quite possible, then it's time to add in an embedded processor to immediately tune all the pots and keep/get things functioning.  This 5.0 board is mostly a step in that direction.  Version 10.0 may well be the one everybody wants, because it will get the cell working and if it can't, it will tell you why, what you need to fix.
That's the engineering approach.