#### gpssonar

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #50, on December 5th, 2015, 06:42 AM »Last edited on December 5th, 2015, 06:49 AM
Here are several references from the TECH BRIEF and their is many many more from other documents of the Re of water. Re is used in all his formulas to get the total Z impedance. So how can you not use the Re that he gives us to calculate the Z? Reference shows that the Re of the water is a dielectric constant of 78.54 and also shows it in ohms.

#### nav

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #51, on December 5th, 2015, 06:58 AM »Last edited on December 5th, 2015, 07:01 AM
Take note of the opposite windings on the lower schematic, when differential mode current passes through this core, it cancels the magnetic flux fields. The reference to 78 Ohms is the resistive value that water presents when trying to pass current @ 5Khz and is no reference to self resonance @ 10Khz.

#### Lynx

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #52, on December 5th, 2015, 07:26 AM »
Quote from nav on December 5th, 2015, 05:54 AM
The mathematics work perfectly in those charts. From those charts I have worked out that the inductive reactance @ 10Khz needs to be 1.02 million Ohms. It's capacitive reactance is 15.6pf
1. Flat plates: @10Khz
If you have a flat plate 24.2 x 24.2 mm2, a gap of 1mm its inductive reactance is 1.02 million Ohms @ 15.6pf in the plates.

2, Tubes: @10Khz
If you have a pair of tubes 16 inches long then you have 29,450mm2 of surface area per tube set, a gap of 5mm, and 156.6 pf per tube set. This is devided by 10 in a series calculation of 10 tube sets and is 15.6pf and 1.02 million ohms for the entire tube set.

The maths is perfect if you know what you're looking at. If you don't know what your looking at none of it will make sense and you won't be able to scale any of it down to a spark plug sized cell.
Found this online calculator, http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Plate-Capacitor-Calculator.phtml
If you enter area 24.2, distance 1 and dielectric constant 73 you'll end up with 15.6 pF, would that be a ball park estimate?

#### Ris

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #53, on December 5th, 2015, 07:46 AM »
Quote from nav on December 5th, 2015, 05:54 AM
The mathematics work perfectly in those charts. From those charts I have worked out that the inductive reactance @ 10Khz needs to be 1.02 million Ohms. It's capacitive reactance is 15.6pf
1. Flat plates: @10Khz
If you have a flat plate 24.2 x 24.2 mm2, a gap of 1mm its inductive reactance is 1.02 million Ohms @ 15.6pf in the plates.

2, Tubes: @10Khz
If you have a pair of tubes 16 inches long then you have 29,450mm2 of surface area per tube set, a gap of 5mm, and 156.6 pf per tube set. This is devided by 10 in a series calculation of 10 tube sets and is 15.6pf and 1.02 million ohms for the entire tube set.

The maths is perfect if you know what you're looking at. If you don't know what your looking at none of it will make sense and you won't be able to scale any of it down to a spark plug sized cell.
and that is a problem  You have derive data from Ohm readings     you need to pull data out of something solid such as induction      but I must say you are good you are sharpening my brain.

#### gpssonar

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #54, on December 5th, 2015, 08:01 AM »Last edited on December 5th, 2015, 08:36 AM
What is the Total Z of this circuit using Stan's formulas? You can work out the Z value of the L1 and L2 along with the capacitance value from the chart below and the formulas from the Tech Brief  Eq 1,8,9. This will be with air core values. I would like to see everyone's answer, this could show how everyone has a different answer. Also notice where the #(10) shows up.

#### resonance1

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #55, on December 5th, 2015, 08:33 AM »
Thank you gpssonar,

I don't agree that distilled water has a resistive value of 78ohms, that's its dielectric constant, pure distilled water is an insulator with very high ohmic value,
you showed me where the ohmic value for distilled water came from, been scratching my head about that for a while, its much appreciated that you cleared that up.

The reason I cannot use 78ohms resistance in place of a dielectric constant of 78 is dielectric constant and its resultant ability to hold charge is not an ohmic value, it makes no sense to me at this time,

capacitors don't have resistive values they have capacitive reactance values @ a given frequency which is derived from their capacitance calculated from plate area and spacing plus the dielectric constant of the dielectric between them,

the paper only makes sense if you remove ohms from the 78 so I'm lost unless somebody can explain this new law of physics.

Thanks again.

#### nav

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #56, on December 5th, 2015, 08:36 AM »
Quote from Lynx on December 5th, 2015, 07:26 AM
Found this online calculator, http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Plate-Capacitor-Calculator.phtml
If you enter area 24.2, distance 1 and dielectric constant 73 you'll end up with 15.6 pF, would that be a ball park estimate?
No the plate area is 24.2x24.2 which is 587mm2 plate area. I never mentioned dielectric values. The dielectric value is for You to decide to get 15.6pf.
##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #57, on December 5th, 2015, 08:38 AM »
Quote from resonance1 on December 5th, 2015, 08:33 AM
Thank you gpssonar,

I don't agree that distilled water has a resistive value of 78ohms, that's its dielectric constant, pure distilled water is an insulator with very high ohmic value,
you showed me where the ohmic value for distilled water came from, been scratching my head about that for a while, its much appreciated that you cleared that up.

The reason I cannot use 78ohms resistance in place of a dielectric constant of 78 is dielectric constant and its resultant ability to hold charge is not an ohmic value, it makes no sense to me at this time,

capacitors don't have resistive values they have capacitive reactance values @ a given frequency which is derived from their capacitance calculated from plate area and spacing plus the dielectric constant of the dielectric between them,

the paper only makes sense if you remove ohms from the 78 so I'm lost unless somebody can explain this new law of physics.

Thanks again.
Because the circuit has two values, one @ resonance which is capacitive and one @ none resonance which is resistive.

#### resonance1

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #58, on December 5th, 2015, 08:44 AM »Last edited on December 5th, 2015, 08:53 AM
Quote from nav on December 5th, 2015, 08:38 AM
Because the circuit has two values, one @ resonance which is capacitive and one @ none resonance which is resistive.
Thanks nav, that makes perfect sense, capacitors have a very high resistive value in ohms but a much lower reactive value also expressed in ohms @ a given frequency such as 5 or 10khz depending on their capacitive value,

not only that but the dielectric constant and resultant capacitive value changes drastically when gas production starts so using 78ohms is a none starter for me,

im always happy to be shown the error in my thinking

#### Ris

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #59, on December 5th, 2015, 08:52 AM »
total Z =230+785      I would add an additional 10 for the primary

#### gpssonar

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #60, on December 5th, 2015, 09:00 AM »Last edited on December 5th, 2015, 09:30 AM
Allan(Rav) and I fumbled with the dielectric constant of the water being 78.54 ohms the same way most people are doing also when we were doing our own research on it. I showed references in the post above and like i said they are many more in other documents of his. You can only can come to a conclusion he is not telling the truth, or people don't yet understand how he comes up with it being 78.54 ohms.

#### Lynx

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #61, on December 5th, 2015, 09:27 AM »
Quote from nav on December 5th, 2015, 08:36 AM
No the plate area is 24.2x24.2 which is 587mm2 plate area. I never mentioned dielectric values. The dielectric value is for You to decide to get 15.6pf.
Alrighty then, using the same online calculator with 587 mm2, 1mm spacing and a dielectric constant of 3 gives me 15.6 pF and such a dielectric constant isn't found in either water or air, so I guess that online calculator doesn't quite cut it in this case.
But thanks anyway.

#### gpssonar

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #62, on December 5th, 2015, 09:32 AM »Last edited on December 5th, 2015, 10:01 AM
Good number for hydrogen and oxygen as the dielectric, I would think.

#### resonance1

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #63, on December 5th, 2015, 09:51 AM »
I don't think Stan is telling lies at this point but likely misusing the term ohms as a dielectric constant,

it seems obvious that when the cell is producing lots of gas the dielectric value will be much lower than when the cell is only full of water, Stan tells us it changes with gas production in his talk but not in which direction it changes,

I could be wrong but that's how it looks to me.

#### nav

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #64, on December 5th, 2015, 09:56 AM »
Quote from Lynx on December 5th, 2015, 09:27 AM
Alrighty then, using the same online calculator with 587 mm2, 1mm spacing and a dielectric constant of 3 gives me 15.6 pF and such a dielectric constant isn't found in either water or air, so I guess that online calculator doesn't quite cut it in this case.
But thanks anyway.
3 sounds an excellent number lynx for water that has turned to hydrogen and oxygen :P

#### gpssonar

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #65, on December 5th, 2015, 10:02 AM »Last edited on December 5th, 2015, 10:17 AM
Quote from resonance1 on December 5th, 2015, 09:51 AM
I don't think Stan is telling lies at this point but likely misusing the term ohms as a dielectric constant,

it seems obvious that when the cell is producing lots of gas the dielectric value will be much lower than when the cell is only full of water, Stan tells us it changes with gas production in his talk but not in which direction it changes,

I could be wrong but that's how it looks to me.
Good post.  Guy's I am going to throw this out there to you all for what's it worth. Water is not going to be the dielectric in the cell forever. And It looks like a couple of you are catching on now. My deed is done.
##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #66, on December 5th, 2015, 10:05 AM »Last edited on December 5th, 2015, 10:09 AM
Quote from nav on December 5th, 2015, 09:56 AM
3 sounds an excellent number lynx for water that has turned to hydrogen and oxygen :P
Good post also Nav, I stated this above your post. If you remember me saying, there is nothing that is of fixed value in the VIC or the CELL.

#### Lynx

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #67, on December 5th, 2015, 10:19 AM »
Many thanks Gentlemen, clears up atleast one question :thumbsup:

#### gpssonar

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #68, on December 5th, 2015, 10:30 AM »Last edited on December 5th, 2015, 06:58 PM

#### Lynx

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #69, on December 5th, 2015, 01:53 PM »
I know you can't just give it all away to everyone of us just like that Ronnie and I totaly respect that.
I'm confident it's just a matter of time before that happens and when it does it will be a beautiful day on God's green earth.
After that I truly hope life on Earth as we know it, which is based on the old adage money talks bulls#it walks, will come to an end and that a completely new World will see the light of the day, one that which is free from things such as greed, extorsion, extinction of species, destruction of the environment, etc etc.

#### gpssonar

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #70, on December 5th, 2015, 07:14 PM »Last edited on December 5th, 2015, 07:47 PM
Lynx, it will come soon. But just keep in mind people on other forums are watching my every post here. And what has been discussed here the last few day has not only became public knowledge here but on other forums as well. You can bet your boots it is being discussed on one forum as I am typing this. But what the heck, they need something to keep them going to. Their master has run up against ohms law and can't over come it. Even he needs a little encouragement and a push in the right direction from time to time.

#### Lynx

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #71, on December 5th, 2015, 11:02 PM »
Quote from gpssonar on December 5th, 2015, 07:14 PM
Their master has run up against ohms law and can't over come it. Even he needs a little encouragement and a push in the right direction from time to time.
:-D

#### nav

##### Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #72, on December 6th, 2015, 01:25 AM »
Quote from Lynx on December 5th, 2015, 01:53 PM
I know you can't just give it all away to everyone of us just like that Ronnie and I totaly respect that.
I'm confident it's just a matter of time before that happens and when it does it will be a beautiful day on God's green earth.
After that I truly hope life on Earth as we know it, which is based on the old adage money talks bulls#it walks, will come to an end and that a completely new World will see the light of the day, one that which is free from things such as greed, extorsion, extinction of species, destruction of the environment, etc etc.