Quote from Davecbwfc on December 18th, 2011, 09:34 AM

That is what I did in this setup. I switch out my 400 turn 29 awg primary for a 150 turn 24 awg primary. An important thing to remember is that a water capacitor does not act like real capacitor by itself. The 8XA circuit passes current through the cell and builds some voltage. The multi coil vic is a different procces, maybe it evolved from the 8XA, but if current is passing through the cell it is not possible to build the massive voltage needed for this thing to work.

Yup this is my point... multi coil is evolved from 8xA, just a different setup... but mechanism is the same... to build the massive voltage on water capacitor your secondary must be able to cope with the leakage currents in non-resonance stage of about let say milliamps, if its not able to provide the leakage current then the secondary will remain loaded and resonance stage cannot be detected.

 QUOTE: ".......but if current is passing through the cell it is not possible to build the massive voltage needed for this thing to work. "

    Current will pass thorough the cell but only in non resonance stage... but as soon as resonance is achieved, the leakage current will stop flowing through the cell and voltage build up takes place.... so consider the consequence that if your transformer is not able to supply the required current in non resonance stage!!!!!
I hope i made it clear :)

Quote from waqas148 on December 18th, 2011, 12:29 PM

Quote from Davecbwfc on December 18th, 2011, 09:34 AM

That is what I did in this setup. I switch out my 400 turn 29 awg primary for a 150 turn 24 awg primary. An important thing to remember is that a water capacitor does not act like real capacitor by itself. The 8XA circuit passes current through the cell and builds some voltage. The multi coil vic is a different procces, maybe it evolved from the 8XA, but if current is passing through the cell it is not possible to build the massive voltage needed for this thing to work.

Yup this is my point... multi coil is evolved from 8xA, just a different setup... but mechanism is the same... to build the massive voltage on water capacitor your secondary must be able to cope with the leakage currents in non-resonance stage of about let say milliamps, if its not able to provide the leakage current then the secondary will remain loaded and resonance stage cannot be detected.

 QUOTE: ".......but if current is passing through the cell it is not possible to build the massive voltage needed for this thing to work. "

    Current will pass thorough the cell but only in non resonance stage... but as soon as resonance is achieved, the leakage current will stop flowing through the cell and voltage build up takes place.... so consider the consequence that if your transformer is not able to supply the required current in non resonance stage!!!!!
I hope i made it clear :)

I agree :) Thanks for clearing that up.

I hate to see people burning up there transformers, I would think that you would use a low voltage and low current to find resonance, then once you see your transformer is matched and in resonance only then would you raise the voltage to the primary. I know there are people throwing 100 volts + to the primary only to see there transformer arc and burn up. 29 and 30 guage wire will not take this kind of voltage unless it is in resonance. I was guilty of this myself at first.

There was a time i was tuning into resonance with 12volts and i seen an arc on the start of the winding on the secondary where the wire is up the side of the bobbin needless to say that was the end of that transformer. The bad thing is if i hadnt seen the arc i woluld have never know because it everything still worked, but i could never get it to go into resonance again. So to everyone be aware of this if it acrs and you do see it or know it you will be wasting alot of time trying to tune. I found out to insulate the start of the winding realy well and keep the windings tight.

Quote from gpssonar on December 19th, 2011, 03:21 AM

There was a time i was tuning into resonance with 12volts and i seen an arc on the start of the winding on the secondary where the wire is up the side of the bobbin needless to say that was the end of that transformer. The bad thing is if i hadnt seen the arc i woluld have never know because it everything still worked, but i could never get it to go into resonance again. So to everyone be aware of this if it acrs and you do see it or know it you will be wasting alot of time trying to tune. I found out to insulate the start of the winding realy well and keep the windings tight.

Some good advice. I ave seen some of this my self. I truly believe stan was using 4 layers of Insolating wire on his VIC.

That matches the mesuremnts on the VIC that Don took.

No need for crazy amounts of power or voltage as we know stan was using a TIP120 and less than 12 v for his VIC's

So this means that it was less than 5 amps  

Looks like 60v is max for tip120.

So even at Max power it's 300W.

But we know that he was using less than 12v so that's a max power rating of 60W

That's not much. Then add in that he is pulsing so everything gose down at least half.

So we could assume 30W and that's with out hiting resanantce.

Any way just some of my obversations of stand VIC.

Keep up the good conversation. It's nice to see others opinions and see what comes about...

~Russ
 

Hi Russ, I was sent a personal email by H2OPower a couple of months back, and if it is alright I would like to share what he told me,  
Hi Jeff,

I saw your video and would like to welcome you to the world of Meyer now, LOL. In the designing of the WFC exciter array (ER) it is very important that you wire the capacitors up in series for that is how my Meyer used the ER as a part of the VIC circuit using water as a form of resistance. This drastically cuts the amps and allows voltage to take over. Here is a video I made showing the building of a 12 capacitor ER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avtjOFc5Gdc

Now since I seem to be the first that has done this I am also the first to notice a problem other simply don't know about. In this next video you can see the problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NrBEnRtHoE
It took me a few days to figure out what it was I was seeing and make sense of it. What you are seeing is a single phase set up and the effect of ionizing the water doesn't start to happen until around 215 volts. So now think of the voltage wave form and it becomes clear what it is you are seeing. As the voltage rises with each pulse it only will start to ionize the water once it reaches 215 volts and with the end of the pulse as the voltage drops below 215 volts the ionization of the water stops. That is what I think is taking place in my experiment as the time of the pulses don't change but only the voltage is being increased and the time that it is above 215 volts remains constant no mater how many volts I am above 215 volts, thus as seen in the video the pipe organ effect remains the same but the gas out put of those small time intervals goes up along with the increase in voltage.

Now the solution to fix this problem is three or more phases. Meyer used six phase and I will be to soon just as soon as I get the circuit up and running and make new VIC transformers for the ER. Meyer uses three phase and the VIC transformer action changes it into six phase as it acts as a frequency doubler. In this new set up the voltage will only drop 14% from the max voltage thus the water will be getting ionized at a far more constant rate than my one phase set up using the 8xa circuit.

If I had never of built the the series ER I would have never seen this problem. I guess in a way to protect his technology Meyer simple stop talking about the use of multiple phases even though he used 9 VIC transformers on his car when it was being run by the ER. The set up was in a three parallel three phase arrangement to a series ER.

In this video I just added a diode to the set up in the spot Meyer calls for an amp inhibiting coil and it increased efficiency as now the unit is only at .41 amps at above 1000 volts; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An35gDEo1b0 Since then I have increase that to 2k volts only drawing .33 amps. My first attempt at 3 phase didn't work so I am now back to the drawing board redesigning the circuit board with now a complete Meyer VIC driving circuit.

I go over a lot of the science behind Meyer's work one these two sites: http://www.hereticalbuilders.com/showthread.php?t=174 and http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=92

I hope this helps you become energy independent as I know that is both of our goals, enjoy!
And if you have more questions just ask away.

h2opower    

Looks like good info, you be the judge, I thought I would post this info since h2opower deleted all that he had posted.

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 24th, 2011, 07:17 AM

Hi Russ, I was sent a personal email by H2OPower a couple of months back, and if it is alright I would like to share what he told me,  
Hi Jeff,

I saw your video and would like to welcome you to the world of Meyer now, LOL. In the designing of the WFC exciter array (ER) it is very important that you wire the capacitors up in series for that is how my Meyer used the ER as a part of the VIC circuit using water as a form of resistance. This drastically cuts the amps and allows voltage to take over. Here is a video I made showing the building of a 12 capacitor ER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avtjOFc5Gdc

Now since I seem to be the first that has done this I am also the first to notice a problem other simply don't know about. In this next video you can see the problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NrBEnRtHoE
It took me a few days to figure out what it was I was seeing and make sense of it. What you are seeing is a single phase set up and the effect of ionizing the water doesn't start to happen until around 215 volts. So now think of the voltage wave form and it becomes clear what it is you are seeing. As the voltage rises with each pulse it only will start to ionize the water once it reaches 215 volts and with the end of the pulse as the voltage drops below 215 volts the ionization of the water stops. That is what I think is taking place in my experiment as the time of the pulses don't change but only the voltage is being increased and the time that it is above 215 volts remains constant no mater how many volts I am above 215 volts, thus as seen in the video the pipe organ effect remains the same but the gas out put of those small time intervals goes up along with the increase in voltage.

Now the solution to fix this problem is three or more phases. Meyer used six phase and I will be to soon just as soon as I get the circuit up and running and make new VIC transformers for the ER. Meyer uses three phase and the VIC transformer action changes it into six phase as it acts as a frequency doubler. In this new set up the voltage will only drop 14% from the max voltage thus the water will be getting ionized at a far more constant rate than my one phase set up using the 8xa circuit.

If I had never of built the the series ER I would have never seen this problem. I guess in a way to protect his technology Meyer simple stop talking about the use of multiple phases even though he used 9 VIC transformers on his car when it was being run by the ER. The set up was in a three parallel three phase arrangement to a series ER.

In this video I just added a diode to the set up in the spot Meyer calls for an amp inhibiting coil and it increased efficiency as now the unit is only at .41 amps at above 1000 volts; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An35gDEo1b0 Since then I have increase that to 2k volts only drawing .33 amps. My first attempt at 3 phase didn't work so I am now back to the drawing board redesigning the circuit board with now a complete Meyer VIC driving circuit.

I go over a lot of the science behind Meyer's work one these two sites: http://www.hereticalbuilders.com/showthread.php?t=174 and http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=92

I hope this helps you become energy independent as I know that is both of our goals, enjoy!
And if you have more questions just ask away.

h2opower    

Looks like good info, you be the judge, I thought I would post this info since h2opower deleted all that he had posted.

Thanks Jeff,
I often wondered why there was so many VIC cards if all the tubes were in series.  Thank goodness you didn't sign a non-dis-closer agreement, or you might get deleted too!  :P

Nate

Quote from firepinto on December 24th, 2011, 07:41 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 24th, 2011, 07:17 AM

Hi Russ, I was sent a personal email by H2OPower a couple of months back, and if it is alright I would like to share what he told me,  
Hi Jeff,

I saw your video and would like to welcome you to the world of Meyer now, LOL. In the designing of the WFC exciter array (ER) it is very important that you wire the capacitors up in series for that is how my Meyer used the ER as a part of the VIC circuit using water as a form of resistance. This drastically cuts the amps and allows voltage to take over. Here is a video I made showing the building of a 12 capacitor ER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avtjOFc5Gdc

Now since I seem to be the first that has done this I am also the first to notice a problem other simply don't know about. In this next video you can see the problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NrBEnRtHoE
It took me a few days to figure out what it was I was seeing and make sense of it. What you are seeing is a single phase set up and the effect of ionizing the water doesn't start to happen until around 215 volts. So now think of the voltage wave form and it becomes clear what it is you are seeing. As the voltage rises with each pulse it only will start to ionize the water once it reaches 215 volts and with the end of the pulse as the voltage drops below 215 volts the ionization of the water stops. That is what I think is taking place in my experiment as the time of the pulses don't change but only the voltage is being increased and the time that it is above 215 volts remains constant no mater how many volts I am above 215 volts, thus as seen in the video the pipe organ effect remains the same but the gas out put of those small time intervals goes up along with the increase in voltage.

Now the solution to fix this problem is three or more phases. Meyer used six phase and I will be to soon just as soon as I get the circuit up and running and make new VIC transformers for the ER. Meyer uses three phase and the VIC transformer action changes it into six phase as it acts as a frequency doubler. In this new set up the voltage will only drop 14% from the max voltage thus the water will be getting ionized at a far more constant rate than my one phase set up using the 8xa circuit.

If I had never of built the the series ER I would have never seen this problem. I guess in a way to protect his technology Meyer simple stop talking about the use of multiple phases even though he used 9 VIC transformers on his car when it was being run by the ER. The set up was in a three parallel three phase arrangement to a series ER.

In this video I just added a diode to the set up in the spot Meyer calls for an amp inhibiting coil and it increased efficiency as now the unit is only at .41 amps at above 1000 volts; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An35gDEo1b0 Since then I have increase that to 2k volts only drawing .33 amps. My first attempt at 3 phase didn't work so I am now back to the drawing board redesigning the circuit board with now a complete Meyer VIC driving circuit.

I go over a lot of the science behind Meyer's work one these two sites: http://www.hereticalbuilders.com/showthread.php?t=174 and http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=92

I hope this helps you become energy independent as I know that is both of our goals, enjoy!
And if you have more questions just ask away.

h2opower    

Looks like good info, you be the judge, I thought I would post this info since h2opower deleted all that he had posted.

Thanks Jeff,
I often wondered why there was so many VIC cards if all the tubes were in series.  Thank goodness you didn't sign a non-dis-closer agreement, or you might get deleted too!  :P

Nate

Thanks Nate, ya h2o will have to delete all the other posts he has made to youtube and so on, from the links he sent to me in the email, hope he doesn't and cools off to see the bigger picture.

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 24th, 2011, 09:06 AM

Quote from firepinto on December 24th, 2011, 07:41 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 24th, 2011, 07:17 AM

Hi Russ, I was sent a personal email by H2OPower a couple of months back, and if it is alright I would like to share what he told me,  
Hi Jeff,

I saw your video and would like to welcome you to the world of Meyer now, LOL. In the designing of the WFC exciter array (ER) it is very important that you wire the capacitors up in series for that is how my Meyer used the ER as a part of the VIC circuit using water as a form of resistance. This drastically cuts the amps and allows voltage to take over. Here is a video I made showing the building of a 12 capacitor ER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avtjOFc5Gdc

Now since I seem to be the first that has done this I am also the first to notice a problem other simply don't know about. In this next video you can see the problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NrBEnRtHoE
It took me a few days to figure out what it was I was seeing and make sense of it. What you are seeing is a single phase set up and the effect of ionizing the water doesn't start to happen until around 215 volts. So now think of the voltage wave form and it becomes clear what it is you are seeing. As the voltage rises with each pulse it only will start to ionize the water once it reaches 215 volts and with the end of the pulse as the voltage drops below 215 volts the ionization of the water stops. That is what I think is taking place in my experiment as the time of the pulses don't change but only the voltage is being increased and the time that it is above 215 volts remains constant no mater how many volts I am above 215 volts, thus as seen in the video the pipe organ effect remains the same but the gas out put of those small time intervals goes up along with the increase in voltage.

Now the solution to fix this problem is three or more phases. Meyer used six phase and I will be to soon just as soon as I get the circuit up and running and make new VIC transformers for the ER. Meyer uses three phase and the VIC transformer action changes it into six phase as it acts as a frequency doubler. In this new set up the voltage will only drop 14% from the max voltage thus the water will be getting ionized at a far more constant rate than my one phase set up using the 8xa circuit.

If I had never of built the the series ER I would have never seen this problem. I guess in a way to protect his technology Meyer simple stop talking about the use of multiple phases even though he used 9 VIC transformers on his car when it was being run by the ER. The set up was in a three parallel three phase arrangement to a series ER.

In this video I just added a diode to the set up in the spot Meyer calls for an amp inhibiting coil and it increased efficiency as now the unit is only at .41 amps at above 1000 volts; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An35gDEo1b0 Since then I have increase that to 2k volts only drawing .33 amps. My first attempt at 3 phase didn't work so I am now back to the drawing board redesigning the circuit board with now a complete Meyer VIC driving circuit.

I go over a lot of the science behind Meyer's work one these two sites: http://www.hereticalbuilders.com/showthread.php?t=174 and http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=92

I hope this helps you become energy independent as I know that is both of our goals, enjoy!
And if you have more questions just ask away.

h2opower    

Looks like good info, you be the judge, I thought I would post this info since h2opower deleted all that he had posted.

Thanks Jeff,
I often wondered why there was so many VIC cards if all the tubes were in series.  Thank goodness you didn't sign a non-dis-closer agreement, or you might get deleted too!  :P

Nate

Thanks Nate, ya h2o will have to delete all the other posts he has made to youtube and so on, from the links he sent to me in the email, hope he doesn't and cools off to see the bigger picture.

Hey guys! Just to clear a cople of things up.

Know one will get deleated! :) he asked to be removed... :)

Any how on this subject of the cells being connected in series...

Stans original ideas and plans was to run each cell with a Vic. Separately. You can this in the video released from don here:  

   http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=185

When stan talks About dubbing he is referring to the fact that if add a diode in the Vic you get a half wave Rectification and the frequency "doubles" this what stan was referring to when you hear him say "dubbing"

So far know one has had a real answer to why the cell was in seaires when don got ahold of it but I have had some thoughts such as, it cuts the amperage down by adding resistance.

Any how all in all let's Liston to others experiences, do hour own tests, and then decide what to do.

I do not think h20 Is on the right track with this idea but we all have our own reasions for thinking the way we do but all in all the best thing is we are sharing what we learn nd that's the way we all help each other even if we do not agree on others ideas, it's a grate learning tool!

Ok! So botom line! Work hard, make own judgments, hear what others have to say, be open to ideas, and have some fun! O, and be safe!

Hope to have some intresting test results soon! Then we can see what I come up with on this one... Testing is where it's at so time will tell!

~Russ

Ps. No disclosers on this site! No worries! Open source!

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on December 25th, 2011, 08:27 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 24th, 2011, 09:06 AM

Quote from firepinto on December 24th, 2011, 07:41 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 24th, 2011, 07:17 AM

Hi Russ, I was sent a personal email by H2OPower a couple of months back, and if it is alright I would like to share what he told me,  
Hi Jeff,

I saw your video and would like to welcome you to the world of Meyer now, LOL. In the designing of the WFC exciter array (ER) it is very important that you wire the capacitors up in series for that is how my Meyer used the ER as a part of the VIC circuit using water as a form of resistance. This drastically cuts the amps and allows voltage to take over. Here is a video I made showing the building of a 12 capacitor ER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avtjOFc5Gdc

Now since I seem to be the first that has done this I am also the first to notice a problem other simply don't know about. In this next video you can see the problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NrBEnRtHoE
It took me a few days to figure out what it was I was seeing and make sense of it. What you are seeing is a single phase set up and the effect of ionizing the water doesn't start to happen until around 215 volts. So now think of the voltage wave form and it becomes clear what it is you are seeing. As the voltage rises with each pulse it only will start to ionize the water once it reaches 215 volts and with the end of the pulse as the voltage drops below 215 volts the ionization of the water stops. That is what I think is taking place in my experiment as the time of the pulses don't change but only the voltage is being increased and the time that it is above 215 volts remains constant no mater how many volts I am above 215 volts, thus as seen in the video the pipe organ effect remains the same but the gas out put of those small time intervals goes up along with the increase in voltage.

Now the solution to fix this problem is three or more phases. Meyer used six phase and I will be to soon just as soon as I get the circuit up and running and make new VIC transformers for the ER. Meyer uses three phase and the VIC transformer action changes it into six phase as it acts as a frequency doubler. In this new set up the voltage will only drop 14% from the max voltage thus the water will be getting ionized at a far more constant rate than my one phase set up using the 8xa circuit.

If I had never of built the the series ER I would have never seen this problem. I guess in a way to protect his technology Meyer simple stop talking about the use of multiple phases even though he used 9 VIC transformers on his car when it was being run by the ER. The set up was in a three parallel three phase arrangement to a series ER.

In this video I just added a diode to the set up in the spot Meyer calls for an amp inhibiting coil and it increased efficiency as now the unit is only at .41 amps at above 1000 volts; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An35gDEo1b0 Since then I have increase that to 2k volts only drawing .33 amps. My first attempt at 3 phase didn't work so I am now back to the drawing board redesigning the circuit board with now a complete Meyer VIC driving circuit.

I go over a lot of the science behind Meyer's work one these two sites: http://www.hereticalbuilders.com/showthread.php?t=174 and http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=92

I hope this helps you become energy independent as I know that is both of our goals, enjoy!
And if you have more questions just ask away.

h2opower    

Looks like good info, you be the judge, I thought I would post this info since h2opower deleted all that he had posted.

Thanks Jeff,
I often wondered why there was so many VIC cards if all the tubes were in series.  Thank goodness you didn't sign a non-dis-closer agreement, or you might get deleted too!  :P

Nate

Thanks Nate, ya h2o will have to delete all the other posts he has made to youtube and so on, from the links he sent to me in the email, hope he doesn't and cools off to see the bigger picture.

Hey guys! Just to clear a cople of things up.

Know one will get deleated! :) he asked to be removed... :)

Any how on this subject of the cells being connected in series...

Stans original ideas and plans was to run each cell with a Vic. Separately. You can this in the video released from don here:  

   http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=185

When stan talks About dubbing he is referring to the fact that if add a diode in the Vic you get a half wave Rectification and the frequency "doubles" this what stan was referring to when you hear him say "dubbing"

So far know one has had a real answer to why the cell was in seaires when don got ahold of it but I have had some thoughts such as, it cuts the amperage down by adding resistance.

Any how all in all let's Liston to others experiences, do hour own tests, and then decide what to do.

I do not think h20 Is on the right track with this idea but we all have our own reasions for thinking the way we do but all in all the best thing is we are sharing what we learn nd that's the way we all help each other even if we do not agree on others ideas, it's a grate learning tool!

Ok! So botom line! Work hard, make own judgments, hear what others have to say, be open to ideas, and have some fun! O, and be safe!

Hope to have some intresting test results soon! Then we can see what I come up with on this one... Testing is where it's at so time will tell!

~Russ

Ps. No disclosers on this site! No worries! Open source!

Thanks Russ,
I didn't think we would really get deleted, I just like to use some healthy sarcasm once in a while.  :D   I think one possible reason that the cells are in series is that it was done by someone after Stan was gone.  

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on December 25th, 2011, 08:27 PM

Hey guys! Just to clear a cople of things up.

Know one will get deleated! :) he asked to be removed... :)

Any how on this subject of the cells being connected in series...

Stans original ideas and plans was to run each cell with a Vic. Separately. You can this in the video released from don here:  



When stan talks About dubbing he is referring to the fact that if add a diode in the Vic you get a half wave Rectification and the frequency "doubles" this what stan was referring to when you hear him say "dubbing"

So far know one has had a real answer to why the cell was in seaires when don got ahold of it but I have had some thoughts such as, it cuts the amperage down by adding resistance.

Any how all in all let's Liston to others experiences, do hour own tests, and then decide what to do.

I do not think h20 Is on the right track with this idea but we all have our own reasions for thinking the way we do but all in all the best thing is we are sharing what we learn nd that's the way we all help each other even if we do not agree on others ideas, it's a grate learning tool!

Ok! So botom line! Work hard, make own judgments, hear what others have to say, be open to ideas, and have some fun! O, and be safe!

Hope to have some intresting test results soon! Then we can see what I come up with on this one... Testing is where it's at so time will tell!

~Russ

Ps. No disclosers on this site! No worries! Open source!

Thanks Russ,
I didn't think we would really get deleted, I just like to use some healthy sarcasm once in a while.  :D   I think one possible reason that the cells are in series is that it was done by someone after Stan was gone.  

Quote from firepinto on December 26th, 2011, 05:14 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on December 25th, 2011, 08:27 PM

Hey guys! Just to clear a cople of things up.

Know one will get deleated! :) he asked to be removed... :)

Any how on this subject of the cells being connected in series...

Stans original ideas and plans was to run each cell with a Vic. Separately. You can this in the video released from don here:  



When stan talks About dubbing he is referring to the fact that if add a diode in the Vic you get a half wave Rectification and the frequency "doubles" this what stan was referring to when you hear him say "dubbing"

So far know one has had a real answer to why the cell was in seaires when don got ahold of it but I have had some thoughts such as, it cuts the amperage down by adding resistance.

Any how all in all let's Liston to others experiences, do hour own tests, and then decide what to do.

I do not think h20 Is on the right track with this idea but we all have our own reasions for thinking the way we do but all in all the best thing is we are sharing what we learn nd that's the way we all help each other even if we do not agree on others ideas, it's a grate learning tool!

Ok! So botom line! Work hard, make own judgments, hear what others have to say, be open to ideas, and have some fun! O, and be safe!

Hope to have some intresting test results soon! Then we can see what I come up with on this one... Testing is where it's at so time will tell!

~Russ

Ps. No disclosers on this site! No worries! Open source!

Thanks Russ,
I didn't think we would really get deleted, I just like to use some healthy sarcasm once in a while.  :D   I think one possible reason that the cells are in series is that it was done by someone after Stan was gone.

I thought that as well Nate about the cell, that's one reason I posted the email sent to me from h2o, not to mislead, but to get others opinions :idea:, because this info had been posted before by h2o and then deleted, so I was really trying to clear up any misconceptions :D. And to, that's why I told h2o we needed a full solution to the hho problem before one would buy a product from him, needing proof of his claims as it were. Russ, I to did not think I would be deleted or having to sign a disclaimer, it was just humorous :P to Nate and I, also just wanted to say we trust your judgements as well, thanks.

Bit of bi-directional bifilar winding here perhaps?   The guy makes it look so easy, shame i dont know russian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24AoCFxZtL8&list=UUDH0rv61kXFfaFmu9dNijQw&index=6&feature=plcp

First post. I would like to say thanks for all the pictures. I see in the close up pictures of the VICs that they are not all wired alike. There is a picture that clearily shows that the primary winding is very fine wire and the secondary is much thicker. Another has the feedback coil wound with the same fine wire as the primary and yet another one with the feedback winding much larger. I think these VIC coils where still in the development stage and may not have been operational yet. (All of them seem to be apart). This could explain why the EC is wired in series using only 10 cells (one cell is not connected, could have been another also). I think it was configured to run with the black power supply used for the plate demo unit. 9-10 cells are the same square inches as the 3x12" plates in the demo unit.

Quote from DanB on January 2nd, 2012, 05:08 PM

First post. I would like to say thanks for all the pictures. I see in the close up pictures of the VICs that they are not all wired alike. There is a picture that clearily shows that the primary winding is very fine wire and the secondary is much thicker. Another has the feedback coil wound with the same fine wire as the primary and yet another one with the feedback winding much larger. I think these VIC coils where still in the development stage and may not have been operational yet. (All of them seem to be apart). This could explain why the EC is wired in series using only 10 cells (one cell is not connected, could have been another also). I think it was configured to run with the black power supply used for the plate demo unit. 9-10 cells are the same square inches as the 3x12" plates in the demo unit.

hummmm, yeah! that's interesting! ~Russ

I've been looking at the VIC coil tring to figure out how many turns of wire are on each coil. We have been given the resistance and wire gauge. We can calculate the length of wire. We know the size of the bobbin. So why can't I fit the secondary wire all on the bobbin?

Where did the 29awg come from? If I use 30awg it would be OK.

Quote from DanB on January 15th, 2012, 10:23 AM

Where did the 29awg come from? If I use 30awg it would be OK.

The gauge and diameter of the magnet wire in inches used on the VIC transformer was discussed here; 'Step by step VIC build' posts #17 and #18:

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=1756#pid1756

I recently received the heavy/two-coat 30 AWG magnet wire from that manufacture mentioned in the above link and measured the diameter of the wire with a caliper to be at 0.011 inches, well within the tolerance of +/-0.005 inches close to 0.0115 inches.

haxar,

Thanks so much, I keep reading 29awg in lots of info. The sheet I have calls 30awg with heavy build at nom 0.0116" (0.0113 - 0.0119)

My calculations came out primary = 561 turns, secondary = 3123, choke1 = 3271 and choke2 = 3042. If this is near correct, the inductance is through the roof with a ferrite core. The water capacitor would need to be in the 100pf range to resonate at 5khz. but the calculations for capacitance of Meyers' cell come out much higher than this.

Why do you think Meyers' spec'd the coils different or did they just fill the bobbin when winding?

Quote from DanB on January 15th, 2012, 10:23 AM

I've been looking at the VIC coil tring to figure out how many turns of wire are on each coil. We have been given the resistance and wire gauge. We can calculate the length of wire. We know the size of the bobbin. So why can't I fit the secondary wire all on the bobbin?

The turn count depends on the length of each turn on the bobbin you are winding on.

Quote from DanB on January 15th, 2012, 01:18 PM

My calculations came out primary = 561 turns, secondary = 3123, choke1 = 3271 and choke2 = 3042. If this is near correct, the inductance is through the roof with a ferrite core. The water capacitor would need to be in the 100pf range to resonate at 5khz. but the calculations for capacitance of Meyers' cell come out much higher than this.

Why do you think Meyers' spec'd the coils different or did they just fill the bobbin when winding?

The resistance values for each coil on this VIC reading (http://open-source-energy.org/forum/attachment.php?aid=463 from here) are:

Primary (Yellow) -> 10.5 ohms
Feedback (Green) -> 11.5/11.1 ohms
Secondary (Blue) -> 72.4 ohms
Choke 1 (Red) -> 76.7 ohms
Choke 2 (Red) -> 70.1 ohms[/list]
When calculating the length with 29 AWG bare resistance per foot at 81.84 ohms per 1000 feet according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge:

Primary (Yellow) -> 10.5 ohms / (81.84 ohms / 1000 feet) = 128.299120235 feet
Feedback (Green) -> 11.5 / (81.84 ohms / 1000 feet) = 140.518084066 feet
Secondary (Blue) -> 72.4 ohms / (81.84 ohms / 1000 feet) = 884.652981427 feet
Choke 1 (Red) -> 76.7 ohms / (81.84 ohms / 1000 feet) = 937.194525904 feet
Choke 2 (Red) -> 70.1 ohms / (81.84 ohms / 1000 feet) = 856.549364614 feet[/list]
When calculating the length with 30 AWG bare resistance per foot at 103.2 ohms per 1000 feet with same source:

Primary (Yellow) -> 10.5 ohms / (103.2 ohms / 1000 feet) = 101.744186047 feet
Feedback (Green) -> 11.5 / (103.2 ohms / 1000 feet) = 111.434108527 feet
Secondary (Blue) -> 72.4 ohms / (103.2 ohms / 1000 feet) = 701.550387597 feet
Choke 1 (Red) -> 76.7 ohms / (103.2 ohms / 1000 feet) = 743.217054264 feet
Choke 2 (Red) -> 70.1 ohms / (103.2 ohms / 1000 feet) = 679.263565891 feet[/list]
Clearly, you can see the primary to secondary ratio is 1:7 with 30 AWG magnet wire.

just so everyone knows i calculated all this out and built coils with the data... there know where near what they need to be. but... the core was not high permeability in my opinion.

i also believe the wire was 29, but quad coated as its the only wire that fits the dimensions, and that coating will have an some changes to inductance and such...

i may just try it..


my calculations are in the attached spreed sheet, everyone that dose tests need to add to this spreed sheet so we can get closer with more people contributing to the data...

work in numbers! save some time! and help others!! :)

blessings!

~Russ

Russ,

I didn't know that those numbers where from the VIC information directly. If it was in the tread I missed it.

I stll have a probem fitting it on Stans' bobbin. My calculations could be wrong. I can't wait untill someone winds one of those "printed bobbins". That is just so cool.

Dan

new bobbin and new measurements,

here are some photos also so some scope shots.

the first one was with the "ground" or reference lead on the secondary " floating ground"  
you can see i did not get an un-poler pulse...

but in the second and third photo did get an un-poler pulse... but the " ground" lead on the scope was connected to the Ground on the battery.

also note that the C1 and C2 are wound counter clockwise, and the Primary and secondary is wound clockwise... this may be why? i don't know.

also note that i did not have anything connected to the output of the VIC. just open coils attached to the scope.

The diode was in the circuit. its a U15560.

using the Russtic 7.0 to pulse the VIC..

~Russ

Russ,  Nice.

Did you take inductance reading of the coils on the core?

Was the 3rd. scope picture with probe a on choke output 1 and probe b on choke output 2 with the scope ground on the battery negative lead?

Are the two scope channel grounds isolated from each other or common on the scope you are using?

Dan

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 21st, 2012, 04:13 AM

new bobbin and new measurements,

here are some photos also so some scope shots.

the first one was with the "ground" or reference lead on the secondary " floating ground"  
you can see i did not get an un-poler pulse...

but in the second and third photo did get an un-poler pulse... but the " ground" lead on the scope was connected to the Ground on the battery.

also note that the C1 and C2 are wound counter clockwise, and the Primary and secondary is wound clockwise... this may be why? i don't know.

also note that i did not have anything connected to the output of the VIC. just open coils attached to the scope.

The diode was in the circuit. its a U15560.

using the Russtic 7.0 to pulse the VIC..

~Russ

Nice job Russ.:cool:  The counter clockwise coils might work better cause it follows the flux path in the core  better?  I think it's the silver bobbins that made it better! Kidding:P

Nate

Quote from DanB on February 21st, 2012, 04:20 PM

Russ,  Nice.

Did you take inductance reading of the coils on the core?

everything in in the attached spread sheet on that post

Quote

Was the 3rd. scope picture with probe a on choke output 1 and probe b on choke output 2 with the scope ground on the battery negative lead?

i don't Remember where the lead was on the last shot... lol i know no help am i... :)

Quote

Are the two scope channel grounds isolated from each other or common on the scope you are using?

they were connected both to ground on the battery.

this VIC is just to see what wave forms and such i can get on this setup... the core being iron is was off.

i just orders some #) awg as haxar is getting much closer results with resistance and physical dimensions with his # 30 wire

~Russ